RPVCCA_SR_2010_05_18_08_PART_II_RDSSC Code Amendment Issue Summary PacketsISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
REAR YARD SETBACKS
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Rear Yard Setbacks
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Increase the 15-foot rear-yard setback requirement to twenty
feet (20’-0”) in the RS-A-5, RS-1, and RS-2 districts for “Lots
Created Prior to Incorporation/Annexation”
DISCUSSION The RDSSC discussed setbacks because the Committee felt
that current trends are diminishing the open-space feel of the
City by allowing the construction of taller structures up to the
setback limits. The Committee reviewed the single-family
setback criteria established by the Development Code in
Table 02-A. The Committee also reviewed the existing
development standards for all of the City’s single-family
zones, as well as equivalent standards for other cities on the
Peninsula and in the South Bay. Based on this review, the
Committee found that the rear-yard setbacks should be
modified for the “Lots Created Prior to Incorporation/
Annexation.” The Committee felt that the rear-yard setback
for lots in the RS-A-5, RS-1, and RS-2 zoning districts should
be increased from fifteen feet (15’) to twenty feet (20’)
because these lots are typically large enough to
accommodate additional open space without compromising
the buildable area or causing a hardship to property owners.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS RDSSC Minutes of August 9, 2004 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES None
IS-1
August 9, 2004
Page 7 of 15
that would be presented to the City Council and the Planning Commission at a joint
workshop. At that meeting, the Council can either accept all, some, or none of the
suggested amendments and initiate the code amendment public hearing proceedings
accordingly.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if it made sense to extend the Committee’s tenure
until June 2005.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that June 2005 seems reasonable. He also stated that
the Committee may wish to take a break during the General Plan public hearings, with
the understanding that the Committee would reconvene afterwards to address topics
that may have arisen during the public hearings. He stated that it is typical for a
Municipal Code/Development Code to be updated after a General Plan has been
updated in order to incorporate the changes. He suggested that the Committee wait
until after the updated General Plan has been adopted before presenting its
recommended code amendments to the Council.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to complete the Meeting / Topic calendar through
June 2005 with the understanding that there may be a period when the Committee will
not meet. He would also like to leave room within the calendar for topics that may be
placed on the agenda, with milestones where the Committee can monitor its progress.
He also wants the record to show that if no new topics arise as a result of the General
Plan public hearings then the tenure of this Committee may end before June 2005. The
Staff directive was approved without Committee objection.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff for its report on the proposed amendments to the
City’s setback criteria.
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the Committee with a power point presentation on
setbacks. As part of the presentation, Mr. Mihranian showed examples of structures
that were built to the minimum side yard setbacks within recent years. The illustrations
intended to reveal how new structures, built to the maximum standards permitted per
zoning district, appear next to existing structures built 30 or more years ago. During the
presentation, he noted that for the most part, he did not identify any majors problems.
However, he stated that from Staff’s perspective, there appears to be trend occurring
where property owners are preparing plans for a remodel, addition or new structure that
is built up to the setback limits, specifically the side and rear yards. Mr. Mihranian
stated that although concerns regarding setbacks is typically addressed by Staff through
Neighborhood Compatibility, applicants are not pleased that their plans need to be
revised to increase the setbacks, especially when the proposed structure complies with
the Residential Development Standards. He stated that the common complaint by an
applicant with revising plans has to do with additional time and costs. He also reminded
the Committee that there are cases where Neighborhood Compatibility is not triggered
and Staff does not have the leverage to require the setbacks be increased.
IS-2
August 9, 2004
Page 8 of 15
Senior Planner Mihranian said that the current construction trend is to build larger
structures with smaller yards, that is essentially maximizing the building footprint. He
reiterated the concerns that arise in neighborhoods that were developed 30 or more
years ago and are being exposed to tear-down rebuild projects. He stated that pursuant
to the City’s goals and policies, and in reaction to current building trends, Staff is
proposing to increase the rear yard setbacks to 20-feet for all lots within the City.
Committee Member Dyda stated that people will look at an ordinance and figure out a
way to build what they want to build. He stressed the importance of having aggregate
limitations.
Committee Member Karp emphasized the importance of setting limits. She stated that if
you wait unit a problem occurs, rather than detecting a trend and correcting the situation
before a problem arises, the damage may be irreversible. She stated that based on the
illustration presented, the examples are mechanically correct, but aesthetically incorrect.
Committee Member Perestam asked how do we define lot coverage, referring to a
specific slide from the power point presentation. He noted that lot coverage limitations
may address the setback and structure concerns.
Senior Planner Mihranian defined lot coverage as the building footprint, parking and
driveway areas, interior courtyards, and decks 30-inches or larger. He stated that the
topic of lot coverage will be the next subject addressed by the Committee.
Committee Member Cartwright asked if an existing structure would have to comply with
the current setbacks if it were remodeled by 50% or more.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the Development Code, a legal non-
conforming structure would have to be brought to conformity if more than 50% of the
existing structure is demolished and rebuilt, with the exception to setbacks. He stated
that if an existing structure did not comply with the current setbacks, only the new
portion of the structure would have to comply. He stated that the Code was written so
that residents remodeling or expanding their home would not be penalized for existing
legal, non-conforming setbacks.
Committee Member Cartwright asked if there were any special overlay districts,
referring to the Portuguese Bend Club.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there are no overlay districts within the City that
apply less stringent standards, aside from Residential Planned Developments. He
stated that because of the unique lot configurations and sizes, combined with the fact
that the homes were constructed prior to the City’s incorporation, most of the existing
homes within the Portuguese Bend Club do not comply with the current residential
development standards. As such, these structures are for the most part legal, non-
conforming, and if improvements are proposed, in most cases variances are necessary.
IS-3
August 9, 2004
Page 9 of 15
He stated that the Commission often considers variances within the Portuguese Bend
Club.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that the genesis for the City’s
incorporation was to reject the County’s projected density levels. He stated that instead
of having a population of approximately 42,000 residents, under the County’s plan, the
City would have a population of approximately 90,000 residents today. Incorporation
was to avoid the high density. He stated that ordinances change through time, and if a
structure is considered legal non-conforming, a resident who wants to improve such a
structure should be required to comply with the rules that were adopted to preserve the
character of the community.
Councilman Wolowicz questioned the judgment of a discretionary application.
Committee Member Dyda stated that was what variances are for, to allow the decision
makers to find a compelling reason to allow a deviation from the code requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the setback criteria is ultimately based on the
City’s goals and policies, and its vision for the future. He stated that most
neighborhoods were developed prior to the City’s incorporation and currently require a
5-foot side yard setback. He stated that based on his observation, the homes within
these neighborhoods maintain open space between structures that exceed the
minimum requirements. He said it would be a disservice to the community and this
Committee to not say that the new construction trend is leaning towards maximizing the
building footprint by building up to the City’s limits. He stated that if the City feels that
the current standards are adequate for the scenario of a maximum build-out, then
changes are not warranted.
Councilman Long noted that there appears to be a minimal burden on legal non-
conforming structures because the Code is written so that only the new portion of
structure needs to comply with the current standards, unless of course the entire
existing structure is voluntarily torn down and rebuilt, then the entire new structure must
comply with the current requirements.
Committee Member Dyda added that if a structure is demolished as a result of a natural
disaster, such as a fire or earthquake, it can be rebuilt to its original envelope even if the
Codes are more stringent.
Commissioner Gertsner asked why Staff is recommending to increase the rear yard
setback requirement when the analysis and presentation focused on the side yard
setback.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that it was Staff’s opinion that increasing the side
yard setback would result in a greater burden on property owners than increasing the
rear yard setback since most homes were not built out to the rear yard setback limits.
IS-4
August 9, 2004
Page 10 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if they were seeking direction on the proposed
changes to rear yard setbacks.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that Staff’s proposal is merely a recommendation and
that the Committee is to ultimately decide what will be recommended to the Council.
Committee Member Slayden stated that he would support Staff’s proposal.
Committee Member Lyon asked Staff if the setback criteria for lots created prior to City-
hood could be changed.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the laws can be amended and that only new
structures would have to comply with the new criteria. He stated that the existing laws
are not conditions to specific tracts.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the suggested changes and its
potential impacts to neighborhoods, such as Eastview. He stated that many of these
home do not comply with current standards, similar to the Portuguese Bend Club. He
asked why Neighborhood Compatibility could not govern the setback limits. He did not
think a change to the side yard setback is warranted, but could support a change to the
rear yard setback limits.
Councilman Long mentioned that he supports increasing the rear yard setback limit to
20-feet and would consider implementing a split side yard setback requirement, with a
minimum of 5-feet on one side and perhaps 15-feet on the other side. He suspects that
having a split setback requirement for side yards, would reduce the number of non-
conforming lots, provided that one side remains at 5-feet. This concept is not just
Neighborhood Compatibility, but open space.
Committee Member Dyda stated that this change would not limit the size of a structure,
but rather ensures that adequate open space will be maintained around the structure.
He stated that he supports Councilman Long’s suggestion to have a split side yard
setback criteria similar to the criteria for City created lots, with a minimum of 5-feet on
one side.
Commissioner Mueller indicated his lack of support of Councilman Long’s suggestion
since it may penalize property owners who did not improve their home before the
suggested changes and reward property owners who already built out to their property
lines.
Committee Member Perestam stated that the City is not in conflict with the mechanics
and aesthetics yet because we are addressing the mechanics within the rear yard and
the aesthetics in the front yard through Neighborhood Compatibility. He stated that
since we are not making a significant change to the criteria he could support the
suggested change.
IS-5
August 9, 2004
Page 11 of 15
Committee Member Cartwright stated that he could support the change to the rear yard
setbacks but not convinced with changing the side yard setbacks, as suggested by
Councilman Long.
Councilman Long reiterated his suggestion that the Development Standards Table be
modified so that the side yard setback criteria for lots created prior to City-hood include
a new column that states “Total Side Yard” with 15-feet, and another column stating
“One Side” with 5-feet. He stated that this suggestion would allow 5-feet on one side
and 10-feet on the other side.
Commissioner Gertsner stated that if the City increases the rear yard setback
requirement, people will then expand along the side and front yards. He stated that
allowing development to occur to the back of a property is typically preferred by other
jurisdictions because its less visible than the front and side of a property. He stated that
when looking at setbacks you need to decide on a series of importance for the City
because the developer, will look for creative ways to accomplish its goal within the
established parameters. He reiterated the need to prioritize setbacks, stating that the
front yard is typically the most important, followed by side yards and then rear yards
being the least important. He supports Councilman Long’s suggestion but does not
support Staff’s proposal to increase the rear yard because that is the least visible.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated his concern with the Eastview neighborhood
as it relates to Councilman Long’s suggestion because many of the homes in that
neighborhood are already built up to the 5-foot setback. He requested more information
on the potential impacts to the smaller lots, such as lots located within the RS-4 and
RS-5 zoning districts.
Councilman Long stated that within the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning district people tend to
expand upward rather than outward because of the lot size limitations. The issue is to
try to preserve some open space between structures.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the City should be concerned with unjustly
penalizing people, not for trying to preserve the intent for incorporation by maintaining a
semi-rural character with low density. He stated that the City should not establish
development criteria based on property values.
Councilman Long stated that Commissioner Gertsner persuaded him to consider
modifying his earlier suggestion so that the rear yard setback remains as is for smaller
lots and that the side yards be changed as suggested earlier.
Committee Member Lyon questioned the proposed changes to the setbacks as it relates
to lots that were created prior to the City’s incorporation, citing an example of a resident
who voluntary tears down their home that maintains a 15-foot rear yard setback and is
told that the new structure must now maintain a 20-foot rear yard setback. He
questioned whether the existing home is grand-fathered.
IS-6
August 9, 2004
Page 12 of 15
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that voluntary tear-down rebuilds or additions must
always comply with the City’s current Codes, while structures damaged or destroyed by
involuntary acts, such as a fire, are grand-fathered, meaning they can be rebuilt to its
original footprint.
Committee Member Lyon asked why the City distinguishes between a City created lot
and a lot created prior to incorporation.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded by saying at the time Code was originally adopted
in 1975, it was the City’s position that new lots, created under the City, should meet
more stringent standards than lots created under the County. He said that one option to
consider today is to combine the two sets of standards.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a formal motion.
Committee Member Lyon moved to accept the existing setback criteria, as stated in
Table 2-A, with the exception of Councilman Long’s suggestion to create two columns
for the side yard setbacks for lots created prior to City-hood, one column would require
a total of 15-feet and the other column would require a minimum 5-foot side yard
setback on one side. He stated that the rear yard setbacks should remain at 15-feet, as
suggested by Commissioner Gertsner.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated his concern that such a change might have an
adverse impact on the Eastview neighborhood.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that according to the City’s Zoning Map, the Eastview
neighborhood is designated as a RS-4 zoning district. He stated that based on Staff’s
observation, that area is comprised of smaller homes that are built up to the 5-foot side
yard setback.
Councilman Long said that based on the Zoning Map these lots are approximately
10,000 square feet in area.
Commissioner Mueller cited a concern similar to Committee Member Cartwright’s
concern. He then referred to the City of Malibu and how their non-beach front
properties require a 5-foot setback on one side, and a 15-foot rear yard setback. He
said that the Committee is stretching the limits. He did not support the motion because
it restricts a property owner from expanding their existing residence to the side.
Committee Member Dyda proposed an amendment to the motion requiring the rear yard
setbacks for lots within the RS-A1, RS-1, and RS-2 districts that were created prior to
incorporation to maintain a 20-foot rear yard setback since these lots are larger in area.
Councilman Long seconded the amendment to the motion.
IS-7
August 9, 2004
Page 13 of 15
Committee Member Lyon, the motion maker, accepted the amendment.
Councilman Wolowicz summarized the amended motion that across the board for lot
created prior to City-hood would require a total side yard setback requirement of 15-feet
with 5-feet on one side, the rear yard setbacks would be increased to 20-feet for the
RS-A5, RS-1, and the RS-2 zoning districts, and all other setbacks would not change.
Committee Member Perestam asked Commissioner Gertsner if the proposed motion
addressed his earlier concern.
Commissioner Gertsner stated that the proposed motion properly addresses the
concerns expressed by the Members and the City’s goals and policies. He said that the
motion still needs to evaluate situations where the proposed change may or may not
work, such as the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts. He said that there appears to be lots
within zoning districts that do not conform to the underlying zoning standards.
Committee Member Cartwright said that he is not certain that the proposed motion is
going to cause a problem for the Eastview neighborhood, but from what he has heard
this evening combined with his own observation, it appears that the motion may pose a
problem to that specific neighborhood, if not other neighborhoods. He said that the size
of a lot can be misleading because in some cases the majority of a lot can be
considered un-buildable because of slope restrictions and the City needs to be sensitive
of that condition. He said the Committee needs to be fully informed on the potential
impacts such a change may cause before finalizing its decision.
Councilman Long raised a concern with lots that may be inconsistent with the lot area
requirement for the respective zoning district. He cited an example of a 4,000 square
foot lot located within the RS-5 zoning district and said that perhaps the setbacks are
not the problem, but rather the zoning designation. He said the City may need to create
another RS zone to address this concern. He proposed that as part of the motion, that
Staff report to the Committee on the impact it would have to change the setbacks on the
RS-5 zoning district and if an impact exists, where that impact exists and what is Staff’s
proposed solution, such as there is a problem and we should reconsider the proposed
motion for the RS-5 zoning district, or yes the problem exists, but only in Eastview and
we can address that by creating a new zoning district with different criteria.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested modifying the motion so that RS-5 is removed from
the discussion until Staff presents its report.
Councilman Long agreed.
Committee Member Karp expressed a similar concern with the RS-4 zoning district.
IS-8
August 9, 2004
Page 14 of 15
Councilman Long proposed an amendment to the motion requiring Staff to further
investigate potential impacts the proposed setback changes would have to the RS-4
and RS-5 zoning districts.
Commissioner Gertsner seconded the amendment to the motion.
Commissioner Mueller stated that since a number of the lots in Rancho Palos Verdes
consist of extreme slopes so that 1/3 of a lot is buildable and the remaining 2/3 is un-
buildable, changes to the setback requirements limits a property owner from improving
their residence.
Committee Member Slayden would like to increase the rear yard setback to 20-feet as
originally proposed.
Commissioner Gertsner said he does not support increasing the rear yard setback
because a back yard is least visible, while the front and side yards are more visible to
the public.
Councilman Long re-stated the motion, emphasizing the direction that Staff is to look at
impacts that may result from changing the side yard setback for the RS-4 and RS-5
zoning districts.
Committee Member Lyon, the framer of the original motion, accepted the proposed
amendment. He supports further review of the matter before the Committee finalizes.
Committee Member Dyda, who seconded the motion, accepted the amendment to the
motion.
Committee Member Cartwright suggested that the Committee look at the matter
regarding extreme slopes, that is buildable versus non-buildable area, for future
discussion by the Committee.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a vote on the amended motion.
The motion passed with Committee Member Perestam dissenting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked that Staff include extreme slopes for the discussion at the
next meeting.
Councilman Long moved to continue the discussion on second story setbacks and
distance between structures, as well as the topics under New Business to the next
meeting.
Councilman Wolowicz seconded the motion and asked for public comments.
IS-9
Director Rojas referred to Finding No. 3 of the Conditional Use Permit, which says that
in approving the subject use in the specific location there will be no significant adverse
affect on adjacent properties. He stated that this broad finding of the Conditional Use
Permit can be use for whatever significant adverse affects the Planning Commission
identifies. He stated that staff’s discussion of view impacts are under this finding. He
explained that staff’s approach to this application has been to be consistent with the
way other applications are handled. While the City Council clarified the by-right height
limit, that discussion was specific to the 16-foot height limit. He explained that for
consistency, staff is applying the findings for the 16-foot height limit to this project. He
stated that he will have to check with the City Attorney to verify how much discretion the
Planning Commission has on this issue given the CUP application that is required.
Chairman Perestam summarized the concerns raised by the Planning Commission as:
decreasing the height of the stair tower; the value of the left hand turn cut in the median
as opposed to the convenience of having the cut in place; the landscaping plan and
possible upgrade of the landscaping; the possibility of decreasing the overall height of
the building area through additional grading; and guidance from the City Attorney and
staff on the limits and bounds the Planning Commission has in regards to the
Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Knight added that he would like to see a condition that no roof mounted
equipment be allowed, that the drainage and different types of permeable surfaces be
looked at to reduce the amount of runoff from the site, and a mitigated pest
management plan to reduce and control the amount of pesticides used on the property.
Commissioner Tetreault added that he would like to see something from the City
Attorney in regards to the letter from Rolling Hills Estates regarding their concerns with
cumulative traffic impacts.
Chairman Perestam asked staff to provide the Planning Commission with contact
numbers of residents on Via la Cima so that, if desired, Commissioners can make
arrangements to visit their residences.
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the public hearing to the meeting of
May 13, 2008 so staff and the applicant can address issues raised by the Planning
Commission and the public speakers, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault.
Approved, (7-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
4. Residential Development Standards Code Amendment & Zone Change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining that at a previous meeting
the Planning Commission had voiced concern regarding possible conflicts of interest.
He stated that there is a lengthy section in the staff report prepared by the City Attorney
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 9 IS-10
addressing this issue. He briefly explained that the City Attorney did not feel the
Planning Commissioners should have to abstain from any decisions about any
proposed amendments to the Development Code, even if they do affect a unique
circumstance on their own property. However, the City Attorney does recommend that
if a Commissioner has a concern that there will be a material affect to the value of the
property, that concern should be stated for the record and the Commissioner should
recuse themselves from making a decision. He then discussed the recommendations
as presented to the Planning Commission at the February 12th and March 11th meetings,
and explained that staff was looking for direction from the Planning Commission. He
began with the proposed rear-yard and side-yard setback changes, briefly describing
the Committee’s proposed modification to the code.
Commissioner Ruttenberg noted that this change only applies to lots created prior to
incorporation, and asked why this modification is necessary, as he felt there are other
tools in the code that can allow the Planning Commission and staff to address this
issue.
Associate Planner Fox explained that is true if there is an application that requires a
neighborhood compatibility analysis. However a smaller scope project that, for
whatever reason does not require the neighborhood compatibility analysis, then staff
and the Planning Commission does not have that leverage.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked if any consideration was given to the possibility that
changing the setback may encourage applicants to build up since they may not have
the room on the lot to expand out.
Associate Planner Fox felt that since the smallest of the lots that this affects is at least a
half acre, and it is only a five foot change, he did not think that this will be an issue.
Commissioner Gerstner agreed with Commissioner Ruttenberg’s concern, adding that
he did not see what the City would be gaining on the positive side, as the proposed
amendment seems to be limiting flexibility and potentially driving the City towards areas
that the City is trying not to encourage. He also noted that while many of these lots may
be large, many have slopes that are not buildable.
Commissioner Knight felt that there was the benefit to the City of increasing the rear
yard setback which will create more open space.
Commissioner Knight moved to accept the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the rear yard setback (alternative No. 1), seconded by
Commissioner Tetreault.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to amend the motion to accept the committee’s
recommendation in regards to RS-A5 and RS-1 zoning districts, seconded by
Chairman Perestam. The motion failed (3-3-1) with Commissioners Knight,
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 10 IS-11
Ruttenberg and Vice Chairman Lewis dissenting, and Commissioner Tetreault
abstaining.
The motion to accept the committee’s recommendation (alternative No. 1) failed,
(3-4) with Commissioners Gerstner, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, and Vice Chairman
Lewis dissenting.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to reject the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the rear yard setback (alternative No. 2), seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Knight dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic before the Planning Commission is the
side-yard setback, explaining the Committee recommendation was to enact a 15-foot
aggregate side-yard setback for all lots in all zoning districts that were created before
City incorporation.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to accept the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the side yard setback, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis.
Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated the next topic is the Eastview re-zoning. He explained
that the committee recommended changing all of the RS-4 zoned areas in Eastview to
RS-5.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that applications on lots in Eastview have come to the
Planning Commission, and these are looked at as legal nonconforming lots. He
questioned why a zone change was necessary, and why they couldn’t remain legal
nonconforming lots. He felt that changing the zoning opens up the opportunity for
subdividing some of the lots and he didn’t want that opportunity opened up. Other than
correcting the non-conformities, he asked what other positive thing is being done by
changing the zoning in that area.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if this recommendation is in any way tied into the
recommendation for the overlay district.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the overlay proposal deals more directly with the
issue of existing non-conforming issues, as that one tract has many structures in it that
don’t meet setback requirements, have inadequate off-street parking, and other
deficiencies that were identified by the committee.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if the area proposed for the zone change from RS-4 to
RS-5 is the same geographic location as the proposed Mira Vista Overlay Control
District.
Associate Planner Fox answered that they are one in the same.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 11 IS-12
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
SIDE YARD SETBACKS
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Side Yard Setbacks
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Retain the 5-foot interior side-yard setback requirement, but
add a 15-foot aggregate side-yard setback requirement in all
single-family districts for “Lots Created Prior to Incorporation/
Annexation”
DISCUSSION The RDSSC discussed setbacks because the Committee felt
that current trends are diminishing the open-space feel of the
City by allowing the construction of taller structures up to the
setback limits. The Committee reviewed the single-family
setback criteria established by the Development Code in
Table 02-A. The Committee also reviewed the existing
development standards for all of the City’s single-family
zones, as well as equivalent standards for other cities on the
Peninsula and in the South Bay. Based on this review, the
Committee found that the side-yard setbacks should be
modified for the “Lots Created Prior to Incorporation/
Annexation.” After extensive discussion the Committee
agreed to increase the existing 5-foot interior side-yard
setback for all single-family districts to a 15-foot aggregate
setback with a minimum setback of five feet (5’) on one side.
The Committee felt that this change would secure open space
between structures without causing a significant hardship to
property owners because existing 5-foot side-yard setbacks
along one side of a property could be maintained, provided
that the other side maintains a 10-foot side-yard setback or
some combination thereof that totals at least fifteen feet (15’).
Upon further review, Staff now believes that this change will
create thousand of nonconformities and impose a burden
upon property owners. Therefore, Staff recommends rejecting
this RDSSC and Planning recommendation.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Table 02-A
RDSSC Minutes of August 9, 2004 (excerpt)
RDSSC Minutes of February 7, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCE Exhibit ‘C’ of Draft Ordinance
IS-13
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(
a
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)
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.
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;
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.
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a
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a
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a
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v
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s
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,
t
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d
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ct
o
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d
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m
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t
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p
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d
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f
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d
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a
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.
5.
F
o
r
p
a
r
k
i
n
g
d
e
v
e
l
o
p
m
e
n
t
s
t
a
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d
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s
,
s
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Se
c
t
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1
7
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0
2
.
0
3
0
(
B
)
o
f
t
h
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h
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p
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r
.
6.
A
g
a
r
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w
i
t
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d
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r
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c
t
a
c
c
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s
s
d
r
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v
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w
a
y
f
r
o
m
t
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s
t
r
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t
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f
a
c
c
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ss
s
h
a
l
l
n
o
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b
e
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s
s
t
h
a
n
t
w
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n
t
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f
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t
f
r
o
m
t
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f
r
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n
t
o
r
s
t
r
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t
-
s
id
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p
r
o
p
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r
t
y
l
i
n
e
,
w
h
i
c
h
e
v
e
r
i
s
t
h
e
st
r
e
e
t
o
f
a
c
c
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s
s
.
7.
E
x
t
e
r
i
o
r
s
t
a
i
r
s
t
o
a
n
u
p
p
e
r
s
t
o
r
y
a
r
e
p
r
o
h
i
b
i
t
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d
,
u
n
l
e
s
s
l
ea
d
i
n
g
t
o
a
n
d
/
o
r
c
o
n
n
e
c
t
e
d
t
o
a
c
o
m
m
o
n
h
a
l
l
w
a
y
,
d
e
c
k
o
r
e
n
t
r
y
r
a
t
h
er
t
h
a
n
a
s
p
e
c
i
f
i
c
r
o
o
m
.
8.
F
o
r
p
u
r
p
o
s
e
s
o
f
c
a
l
c
u
l
a
t
i
n
g
l
o
t
c
o
v
e
r
a
g
e
,
a
p
r
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v
a
t
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s
t
r
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t
e
a
s
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m
e
n
t
s
h
a
l
l
n
o
t
b
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c
o
n
s
i
d
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r
e
d
a
p
a
r
t
o
f
t
h
e
l
o
t
a
r
e
a
a
n
d
t
h
e
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mp
r
o
v
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d
a
r
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a
o
f
a
p
r
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s
t
r
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t
ea
s
e
m
e
n
t
s
h
a
l
l
n
o
t
b
e
c
o
u
n
t
e
d
a
s
l
o
t
c
o
v
e
r
a
g
e
.
EX
H
I
B
I
T
‘
C
’
Pr
o
p
o
s
e
d
T
a
b
l
e
0
2
-
A
IS-14
August 9, 2004
Page 7 of 15
that would be presented to the City Council and the Planning Commission at a joint
workshop. At that meeting, the Council can either accept all, some, or none of the
suggested amendments and initiate the code amendment public hearing proceedings
accordingly.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if it made sense to extend the Committee’s tenure
until June 2005.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that June 2005 seems reasonable. He also stated that
the Committee may wish to take a break during the General Plan public hearings, with
the understanding that the Committee would reconvene afterwards to address topics
that may have arisen during the public hearings. He stated that it is typical for a
Municipal Code/Development Code to be updated after a General Plan has been
updated in order to incorporate the changes. He suggested that the Committee wait
until after the updated General Plan has been adopted before presenting its
recommended code amendments to the Council.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to complete the Meeting / Topic calendar through
June 2005 with the understanding that there may be a period when the Committee will
not meet. He would also like to leave room within the calendar for topics that may be
placed on the agenda, with milestones where the Committee can monitor its progress.
He also wants the record to show that if no new topics arise as a result of the General
Plan public hearings then the tenure of this Committee may end before June 2005. The
Staff directive was approved without Committee objection.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff for its report on the proposed amendments to the
City’s setback criteria.
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the Committee with a power point presentation on
setbacks. As part of the presentation, Mr. Mihranian showed examples of structures
that were built to the minimum side yard setbacks within recent years. The illustrations
intended to reveal how new structures, built to the maximum standards permitted per
zoning district, appear next to existing structures built 30 or more years ago. During the
presentation, he noted that for the most part, he did not identify any majors problems.
However, he stated that from Staff’s perspective, there appears to be trend occurring
where property owners are preparing plans for a remodel, addition or new structure that
is built up to the setback limits, specifically the side and rear yards. Mr. Mihranian
stated that although concerns regarding setbacks is typically addressed by Staff through
Neighborhood Compatibility, applicants are not pleased that their plans need to be
revised to increase the setbacks, especially when the proposed structure complies with
the Residential Development Standards. He stated that the common complaint by an
applicant with revising plans has to do with additional time and costs. He also reminded
the Committee that there are cases where Neighborhood Compatibility is not triggered
and Staff does not have the leverage to require the setbacks be increased.
IS-15
August 9, 2004
Page 8 of 15
Senior Planner Mihranian said that the current construction trend is to build larger
structures with smaller yards, that is essentially maximizing the building footprint. He
reiterated the concerns that arise in neighborhoods that were developed 30 or more
years ago and are being exposed to tear-down rebuild projects. He stated that pursuant
to the City’s goals and policies, and in reaction to current building trends, Staff is
proposing to increase the rear yard setbacks to 20-feet for all lots within the City.
Committee Member Dyda stated that people will look at an ordinance and figure out a
way to build what they want to build. He stressed the importance of having aggregate
limitations.
Committee Member Karp emphasized the importance of setting limits. She stated that if
you wait unit a problem occurs, rather than detecting a trend and correcting the situation
before a problem arises, the damage may be irreversible. She stated that based on the
illustration presented, the examples are mechanically correct, but aesthetically incorrect.
Committee Member Perestam asked how do we define lot coverage, referring to a
specific slide from the power point presentation. He noted that lot coverage limitations
may address the setback and structure concerns.
Senior Planner Mihranian defined lot coverage as the building footprint, parking and
driveway areas, interior courtyards, and decks 30-inches or larger. He stated that the
topic of lot coverage will be the next subject addressed by the Committee.
Committee Member Cartwright asked if an existing structure would have to comply with
the current setbacks if it were remodeled by 50% or more.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the Development Code, a legal non-
conforming structure would have to be brought to conformity if more than 50% of the
existing structure is demolished and rebuilt, with the exception to setbacks. He stated
that if an existing structure did not comply with the current setbacks, only the new
portion of the structure would have to comply. He stated that the Code was written so
that residents remodeling or expanding their home would not be penalized for existing
legal, non-conforming setbacks.
Committee Member Cartwright asked if there were any special overlay districts,
referring to the Portuguese Bend Club.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there are no overlay districts within the City that
apply less stringent standards, aside from Residential Planned Developments. He
stated that because of the unique lot configurations and sizes, combined with the fact
that the homes were constructed prior to the City’s incorporation, most of the existing
homes within the Portuguese Bend Club do not comply with the current residential
development standards. As such, these structures are for the most part legal, non-
conforming, and if improvements are proposed, in most cases variances are necessary.
IS-16
August 9, 2004
Page 9 of 15
He stated that the Commission often considers variances within the Portuguese Bend
Club.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that the genesis for the City’s
incorporation was to reject the County’s projected density levels. He stated that instead
of having a population of approximately 42,000 residents, under the County’s plan, the
City would have a population of approximately 90,000 residents today. Incorporation
was to avoid the high density. He stated that ordinances change through time, and if a
structure is considered legal non-conforming, a resident who wants to improve such a
structure should be required to comply with the rules that were adopted to preserve the
character of the community.
Councilman Wolowicz questioned the judgment of a discretionary application.
Committee Member Dyda stated that was what variances are for, to allow the decision
makers to find a compelling reason to allow a deviation from the code requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the setback criteria is ultimately based on the
City’s goals and policies, and its vision for the future. He stated that most
neighborhoods were developed prior to the City’s incorporation and currently require a
5-foot side yard setback. He stated that based on his observation, the homes within
these neighborhoods maintain open space between structures that exceed the
minimum requirements. He said it would be a disservice to the community and this
Committee to not say that the new construction trend is leaning towards maximizing the
building footprint by building up to the City’s limits. He stated that if the City feels that
the current standards are adequate for the scenario of a maximum build-out, then
changes are not warranted.
Councilman Long noted that there appears to be a minimal burden on legal non-
conforming structures because the Code is written so that only the new portion of
structure needs to comply with the current standards, unless of course the entire
existing structure is voluntarily torn down and rebuilt, then the entire new structure must
comply with the current requirements.
Committee Member Dyda added that if a structure is demolished as a result of a natural
disaster, such as a fire or earthquake, it can be rebuilt to its original envelope even if the
Codes are more stringent.
Commissioner Gertsner asked why Staff is recommending to increase the rear yard
setback requirement when the analysis and presentation focused on the side yard
setback.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that it was Staff’s opinion that increasing the side
yard setback would result in a greater burden on property owners than increasing the
rear yard setback since most homes were not built out to the rear yard setback limits.
IS-17
August 9, 2004
Page 10 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if they were seeking direction on the proposed
changes to rear yard setbacks.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that Staff’s proposal is merely a recommendation and
that the Committee is to ultimately decide what will be recommended to the Council.
Committee Member Slayden stated that he would support Staff’s proposal.
Committee Member Lyon asked Staff if the setback criteria for lots created prior to City-
hood could be changed.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the laws can be amended and that only new
structures would have to comply with the new criteria. He stated that the existing laws
are not conditions to specific tracts.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the suggested changes and its
potential impacts to neighborhoods, such as Eastview. He stated that many of these
home do not comply with current standards, similar to the Portuguese Bend Club. He
asked why Neighborhood Compatibility could not govern the setback limits. He did not
think a change to the side yard setback is warranted, but could support a change to the
rear yard setback limits.
Councilman Long mentioned that he supports increasing the rear yard setback limit to
20-feet and would consider implementing a split side yard setback requirement, with a
minimum of 5-feet on one side and perhaps 15-feet on the other side. He suspects that
having a split setback requirement for side yards, would reduce the number of non-
conforming lots, provided that one side remains at 5-feet. This concept is not just
Neighborhood Compatibility, but open space.
Committee Member Dyda stated that this change would not limit the size of a structure,
but rather ensures that adequate open space will be maintained around the structure.
He stated that he supports Councilman Long’s suggestion to have a split side yard
setback criteria similar to the criteria for City created lots, with a minimum of 5-feet on
one side.
Commissioner Mueller indicated his lack of support of Councilman Long’s suggestion
since it may penalize property owners who did not improve their home before the
suggested changes and reward property owners who already built out to their property
lines.
Committee Member Perestam stated that the City is not in conflict with the mechanics
and aesthetics yet because we are addressing the mechanics within the rear yard and
the aesthetics in the front yard through Neighborhood Compatibility. He stated that
since we are not making a significant change to the criteria he could support the
suggested change.
IS-18
August 9, 2004
Page 11 of 15
Committee Member Cartwright stated that he could support the change to the rear yard
setbacks but not convinced with changing the side yard setbacks, as suggested by
Councilman Long.
Councilman Long reiterated his suggestion that the Development Standards Table be
modified so that the side yard setback criteria for lots created prior to City-hood include
a new column that states “Total Side Yard” with 15-feet, and another column stating
“One Side” with 5-feet. He stated that this suggestion would allow 5-feet on one side
and 10-feet on the other side.
Commissioner Gertsner stated that if the City increases the rear yard setback
requirement, people will then expand along the side and front yards. He stated that
allowing development to occur to the back of a property is typically preferred by other
jurisdictions because its less visible than the front and side of a property. He stated that
when looking at setbacks you need to decide on a series of importance for the City
because the developer, will look for creative ways to accomplish its goal within the
established parameters. He reiterated the need to prioritize setbacks, stating that the
front yard is typically the most important, followed by side yards and then rear yards
being the least important. He supports Councilman Long’s suggestion but does not
support Staff’s proposal to increase the rear yard because that is the least visible.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated his concern with the Eastview neighborhood
as it relates to Councilman Long’s suggestion because many of the homes in that
neighborhood are already built up to the 5-foot setback. He requested more information
on the potential impacts to the smaller lots, such as lots located within the RS-4 and
RS-5 zoning districts.
Councilman Long stated that within the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning district people tend to
expand upward rather than outward because of the lot size limitations. The issue is to
try to preserve some open space between structures.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the City should be concerned with unjustly
penalizing people, not for trying to preserve the intent for incorporation by maintaining a
semi-rural character with low density. He stated that the City should not establish
development criteria based on property values.
Councilman Long stated that Commissioner Gertsner persuaded him to consider
modifying his earlier suggestion so that the rear yard setback remains as is for smaller
lots and that the side yards be changed as suggested earlier.
Committee Member Lyon questioned the proposed changes to the setbacks as it relates
to lots that were created prior to the City’s incorporation, citing an example of a resident
who voluntary tears down their home that maintains a 15-foot rear yard setback and is
told that the new structure must now maintain a 20-foot rear yard setback. He
questioned whether the existing home is grand-fathered.
IS-19
August 9, 2004
Page 12 of 15
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that voluntary tear-down rebuilds or additions must
always comply with the City’s current Codes, while structures damaged or destroyed by
involuntary acts, such as a fire, are grand-fathered, meaning they can be rebuilt to its
original footprint.
Committee Member Lyon asked why the City distinguishes between a City created lot
and a lot created prior to incorporation.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded by saying at the time Code was originally adopted
in 1975, it was the City’s position that new lots, created under the City, should meet
more stringent standards than lots created under the County. He said that one option to
consider today is to combine the two sets of standards.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a formal motion.
Committee Member Lyon moved to accept the existing setback criteria, as stated in
Table 2-A, with the exception of Councilman Long’s suggestion to create two columns
for the side yard setbacks for lots created prior to City-hood, one column would require
a total of 15-feet and the other column would require a minimum 5-foot side yard
setback on one side. He stated that the rear yard setbacks should remain at 15-feet, as
suggested by Commissioner Gertsner.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated his concern that such a change might have an
adverse impact on the Eastview neighborhood.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that according to the City’s Zoning Map, the Eastview
neighborhood is designated as a RS-4 zoning district. He stated that based on Staff’s
observation, that area is comprised of smaller homes that are built up to the 5-foot side
yard setback.
Councilman Long said that based on the Zoning Map these lots are approximately
10,000 square feet in area.
Commissioner Mueller cited a concern similar to Committee Member Cartwright’s
concern. He then referred to the City of Malibu and how their non-beach front
properties require a 5-foot setback on one side, and a 15-foot rear yard setback. He
said that the Committee is stretching the limits. He did not support the motion because
it restricts a property owner from expanding their existing residence to the side.
Committee Member Dyda proposed an amendment to the motion requiring the rear yard
setbacks for lots within the RS-A1, RS-1, and RS-2 districts that were created prior to
incorporation to maintain a 20-foot rear yard setback since these lots are larger in area.
Councilman Long seconded the amendment to the motion.
IS-20
August 9, 2004
Page 13 of 15
Committee Member Lyon, the motion maker, accepted the amendment.
Councilman Wolowicz summarized the amended motion that across the board for lot
created prior to City-hood would require a total side yard setback requirement of 15-feet
with 5-feet on one side, the rear yard setbacks would be increased to 20-feet for the
RS-A5, RS-1, and the RS-2 zoning districts, and all other setbacks would not change.
Committee Member Perestam asked Commissioner Gertsner if the proposed motion
addressed his earlier concern.
Commissioner Gertsner stated that the proposed motion properly addresses the
concerns expressed by the Members and the City’s goals and policies. He said that the
motion still needs to evaluate situations where the proposed change may or may not
work, such as the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts. He said that there appears to be lots
within zoning districts that do not conform to the underlying zoning standards.
Committee Member Cartwright said that he is not certain that the proposed motion is
going to cause a problem for the Eastview neighborhood, but from what he has heard
this evening combined with his own observation, it appears that the motion may pose a
problem to that specific neighborhood, if not other neighborhoods. He said that the size
of a lot can be misleading because in some cases the majority of a lot can be
considered un-buildable because of slope restrictions and the City needs to be sensitive
of that condition. He said the Committee needs to be fully informed on the potential
impacts such a change may cause before finalizing its decision.
Councilman Long raised a concern with lots that may be inconsistent with the lot area
requirement for the respective zoning district. He cited an example of a 4,000 square
foot lot located within the RS-5 zoning district and said that perhaps the setbacks are
not the problem, but rather the zoning designation. He said the City may need to create
another RS zone to address this concern. He proposed that as part of the motion, that
Staff report to the Committee on the impact it would have to change the setbacks on the
RS-5 zoning district and if an impact exists, where that impact exists and what is Staff’s
proposed solution, such as there is a problem and we should reconsider the proposed
motion for the RS-5 zoning district, or yes the problem exists, but only in Eastview and
we can address that by creating a new zoning district with different criteria.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested modifying the motion so that RS-5 is removed from
the discussion until Staff presents its report.
Councilman Long agreed.
Committee Member Karp expressed a similar concern with the RS-4 zoning district.
IS-21
August 9, 2004
Page 14 of 15
Councilman Long proposed an amendment to the motion requiring Staff to further
investigate potential impacts the proposed setback changes would have to the RS-4
and RS-5 zoning districts.
Commissioner Gertsner seconded the amendment to the motion.
Commissioner Mueller stated that since a number of the lots in Rancho Palos Verdes
consist of extreme slopes so that 1/3 of a lot is buildable and the remaining 2/3 is un-
buildable, changes to the setback requirements limits a property owner from improving
their residence.
Committee Member Slayden would like to increase the rear yard setback to 20-feet as
originally proposed.
Commissioner Gertsner said he does not support increasing the rear yard setback
because a back yard is least visible, while the front and side yards are more visible to
the public.
Councilman Long re-stated the motion, emphasizing the direction that Staff is to look at
impacts that may result from changing the side yard setback for the RS-4 and RS-5
zoning districts.
Committee Member Lyon, the framer of the original motion, accepted the proposed
amendment. He supports further review of the matter before the Committee finalizes.
Committee Member Dyda, who seconded the motion, accepted the amendment to the
motion.
Committee Member Cartwright suggested that the Committee look at the matter
regarding extreme slopes, that is buildable versus non-buildable area, for future
discussion by the Committee.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a vote on the amended motion.
The motion passed with Committee Member Perestam dissenting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked that Staff include extreme slopes for the discussion at the
next meeting.
Councilman Long moved to continue the discussion on second story setbacks and
distance between structures, as well as the topics under New Business to the next
meeting.
Councilman Wolowicz seconded the motion and asked for public comments.
IS-22
February 7, 2005
Page 5 of 7
Councilman Wolowicz requested that the March 14th meeting be rescheduled to March
7th because of the Council meeting set for the next evening.
Councilman Long noted that unless otherwise noted, the Committee meetings will
continue to be scheduled on the second Monday of each month.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the amended Meeting Calendar, seconded
by Committee Member Slayden.
The motion passed without objection.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked whether the Committee wanted to assign meeting
topics to each meeting.
Councilman Wolowicz thought it would be helpful to have a pre-agenda.
Councilman Long suggested the Committee talk about the concept of a pre-agenda as
part of Agenda Item No. 8, Items to be Placed on Future Agendas. He then introduced
the next agenda item on City Setbacks and Lot Coverage Criteria and asked for a brief
Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the Committee has spent the last three to four
meetings discussing the City’s setback and lot coverage requirements, and thought that
since the Committee has formally adopted a goal and objective statement whether they
would like to revisit the decisions made thus far.
Councilman Wolowicz noted that during the Committee’s discussion of the setback
requirements for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts, the Committee began to consider
whether the Eastview neighborhood should be treated differently by creating a new
zoning district, such as RS-6.
Councilman Long added that if the Committee is recommending increasing the setbacks
for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts, the thought was would such an increase
adversely impact the Eastview Neighborhood, and whether the current RS-4 zoning
designation is appropriately set.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the Committee introduced the idea of creating
an RS-6 zoning district for the Eastview area a few meetings ago, but requested to
continue the discussion to a later date to allow Staff additional time to investigate this
idea. He then noted that his investigation would look at the Eastview area in segments
and as a whole to better understand whether such a zoning classification would be
feasible.
IS-23
February 7, 2005
Page 6 of 7
Committee Member Dyda referred to a hand-out he prepared on possible requirements
for an RS-6 zoning district. He noted that since the area is already developed it is the
residential development standards in place that will shape the future of the area.
Councilman Long noted that Eastview area is a good example for implementing criteria
standards that encourage people to build outward by increasing lot coverage as a
means to preserve views or to build upward by reducing lot coverage all depending on
the topography of the immediate area. He referred to the balancing issue that the
Committee discussed earlier. He said the Committee can make a tentative decision
regarding setbacks, but will likely reconsider its decision at the time the Committee
discusses the balancing issue.
Councilman Wolowicz asked that the discussion on the creation of a RS-6 zoning
district with proposed development standards be brought back at a later time.
Councilman Long agreed, but suggested that Staff propose preliminary standards
depending on the specific neighborhoods within Eastview, and to also propose some
form of variance that would allow property owners relief from the development
standards if they are seeking to preserve views.
Committee Member Dyda raised a concern with allowing structures to encroach within
the side yard setback if the minimum distance is 5-feet, because if eaves can currently
encroach into the setbacks, there is the potential to end up with a situation where eaves
are nearly touching.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that when the Committee first considered the
concept of “balancing” development standards, the thought was to establish set
standards and then establish an incentive, such as reduced standards that would apply
if a property owner can prove that they are preserving neighbor’s views. The
Committee directed Staff to discuss this concept with the City Attorney. He then stated
that the City Attorney suggested that the Minor Exception Permit findings be modified to
allow relief from the standards, rather than creating two tiers of residential standards.
Councilman Wolowicz would prefer not to use the word “incentive” because it alludes to
an objective. He would like to be able to structure an RS-6 zone so that it can
encompass these issues without creating sub-districts no more cumbersome or wordy
than the RS-4 and RS-5 districts, but that captures the spirit of balancing.
Councilman Long stated that the problem lies in cases where within the same zoning
district on the same street, homes next to each other, may end up with different
outcomes. He then referred to his home as an example.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if it is at all possible to create a RS-6 zoning district
that captures the spirit of what has been discussed this evening.
IS-24
February 7, 2005
Page 7 of 7
Senior Planner Mihranian believes it is possible, but will know for certain after doing
some further research and developing possible standards for review by the Committee.
Councilman Long stressed that the RS-6 district will have to have some minimum
standards.
Councilman Wolowicz moved to adopt the changes to the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning
districts and to direct Staff to further investigate the viability of creating an RS-6 zoning
district for the Eastview neighborhood.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion. He then clarified that the standards
being considered for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts are contained in the agenda
packet.
Councilman Wolowicz requested that the information Staff prepares be distributed prior
to the next meeting.
Without objection the motion passed.
AUDIENCE COMMENTS
Mr. Redfield explained his interest in this Committee’s assignment, referring to his
interest with the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering Committee.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Councilman Wolowicz moved to instruct Staff take the topics and match it with the
calendar dates and spread it out through the year, and to place it in some logical order.
Committee Member Karp seconded the motion.
Committee Member Slayden suggested that each scheduled meeting should be over-
loaded.
The amended motion passed without objection.
ADJOURNMENT
Committee Member Dyda moved to adjourn the meeting.
Committee Member Slayden seconded the motion.
The meeting adjourned at 8:27 p.m.
IS-25
Ruttenberg and Vice Chairman Lewis dissenting, and Commissioner Tetreault
abstaining.
The motion to accept the committee’s recommendation (alternative No. 1) failed,
(3-4) with Commissioners Gerstner, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, and Vice Chairman
Lewis dissenting.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to reject the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the rear yard setback (alternative No. 2), seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Knight dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic before the Planning Commission is the
side-yard setback, explaining the Committee recommendation was to enact a 15-foot
aggregate side-yard setback for all lots in all zoning districts that were created before
City incorporation.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to accept the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the side yard setback, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis.
Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated the next topic is the Eastview re-zoning. He explained
that the committee recommended changing all of the RS-4 zoned areas in Eastview to
RS-5.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that applications on lots in Eastview have come to the
Planning Commission, and these are looked at as legal nonconforming lots. He
questioned why a zone change was necessary, and why they couldn’t remain legal
nonconforming lots. He felt that changing the zoning opens up the opportunity for
subdividing some of the lots and he didn’t want that opportunity opened up. Other than
correcting the non-conformities, he asked what other positive thing is being done by
changing the zoning in that area.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if this recommendation is in any way tied into the
recommendation for the overlay district.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the overlay proposal deals more directly with the
issue of existing non-conforming issues, as that one tract has many structures in it that
don’t meet setback requirements, have inadequate off-street parking, and other
deficiencies that were identified by the committee.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if the area proposed for the zone change from RS-4 to
RS-5 is the same geographic location as the proposed Mira Vista Overlay Control
District.
Associate Planner Fox answered that they are one in the same.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 11 IS-26
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
EASTVIEW REZONING
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Eastview Rezoning
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Rezone the RS-4 portions of the Eastview area to RS-5
DISCUSSION Based on the Committee’s review of the average lot sizes
within the various single-family districts, the Committee found
that the zoning in the Eastview area was the most inconsistent
with existing conditions “on the ground.” The Committee
found that the single-family portions of Eastview are
designated RS-4, which requires a minimum 10,000-square-
foot lot, while the average lot in this area is 8,000 square feet,
which is more consistent with the minimum lot size required in
the RS-5 district. As such, the Committee recommended that
the zoning of the single-family portions of the Eastview area
be changed from RS-4 to RS-5.
The Committee’s recommendation took into account the
possibility that there may be an increase in lot-split
applications as a result of the change to the RS-5 zoning
designation. However, after considering minimum lot area,
minimum lot width and depth requirements, and topography,
the Committee identified no more than a few lots within
Eastview that could be further subdivided under the new RS-5
zoning designation.
Staff has identified twenty-two (22) parcels in Eastview
between 16,000 and 20,000 square feet in area that might be
split under RS-5 zoning (but not under current RS-4 zoning).
Based upon topography and lot configuration, Staff estimates
that less than half of these lots could be easily subdivided.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Zoning Map
RDSSC Minutes of April 11, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of May 13, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Exhibit ‘A’ of Draft Ordinance
IS-27
Areas outlined
in RED to be
re-zoned from
RS-4 to RS-5
EXHIBIT ‘A’
Proposed Eastview Re-Zoning RS-4 to RS-5
IS-28
Adopted June 13, 2005
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS STANDARDS STEERING COMMITTEE
REGULAR MEETING
April 11, 2005
CALL TO ORDER
Councilman Long called the meeting to order at 7:10 p.m. The meeting was held at the
City Hall Community Room, 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard.
ROLL CALL
Present: Councilman Long, Planning Commissioners Mueller and Perestam,
Committee Members Cartwright, Karp, Lyon, Dyda, Denton, and Slayden.
Absent: Councilman Wolowicz and Commissioner Gertsner.
Also present was Senior Planner Mihranian.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the Agenda, seconded by Committee
Member Slayden.
Without objection, the agenda was approved by the Committee.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Councilman Long asked the Committee if there were any changes to the March 7, 2005
draft minutes.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the March 7, 2005 minutes, seconded by
Committee Member Karp.
The motion passed without objection. Councilman Long and Committee Member
Denton abstained since they were not present at the March 7, 2005 meeting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
Councilman Long asked for an update from the Eastview Sub-Committee.
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the Sub-Committee members as, Committee
Members Denton, Dyda, and Karp. He indicated that the Sub-Committee has been
meeting on Tuesday mornings for the past month and he acknowledged the additional
April 11, 2005
Page 1 of 11
IS-29
April 11, 2005
Page 2 of 11
work and time the Sub-Committee set aside for this assignment. He then briefly
recapped the power point presentation given at the March 7, 2005 meeting. He
explained the zoning established by Los Angeles County and the background facts on
the Eastview Area that from the 1980 U.S. Census that was used by the City at the time
of annexation. He identified the eight residential neighborhoods located within Eastview,
including three multiple-family areas. Included in the background data was that the
Goals Report prepared by the City identified the average density of the residential units
as 5-units per acre. He briefly recapped the lot evaluation prepared for the area
discussing Staff’s rationale for the calculations.
Based on the lot evaluation table, he indicated that Staff presented the Committee at
the March 7th meeting a proposal to rezone the area from RS-4 to RS-6. He recapped
the suggested criteria and then mentioned how after discussing the proposal, the
Committee agreed not to create a new zoning designation for the Eastview area, but
perhaps rezone it as RS-5 with two overlay districts.
Based on the Committee’s discussion, a Sub-Committee was formed to develop
standards for the overlay districts. He began to discuss the Sub-Committee’s
accomplishments thus far. He stated that the Sub-Committee’s first task was to develop
an objective statement which is as follows: to develop residential development
standards that would improve the open space of the area without creating undue
hardship to property owners. He explained three “issues” raised by the Sub-Committee
relating to enhancing the open feel of the area similar to that of the entire City. The
three issues were summarized as: off-street parking, open space in relation to the
landscape requirement.
In terms of off-street parking, Mr. Mihranian indicated that the Sub-Committee wanted to
encourage parking on-site (individual lots) rather than on the street. Some options
included tandem driveways along the side of the home, and reducing the parking
compliance requirement for remodels of existing homes, reduced parking space
dimension requirement. He stated that after spending time observing the parking
condition within the neighborhood, it become more and more evident that the
alternatives being contemplated would not be realistic because of the way the existing
homes are built. The observation for this exercise was focused within four specific
streets, Trudie, Jaybrook, Homeworth, and Highmore streets.
Committee Member Denton indicated that while observing these four streets, the focus
area, it was evident that the existing homes had already incorporated one or more of the
alternatives being contemplated. She indicated that only five homes did not have on-site
parking and could not accommodate the suggested alternatives unless the homes were
substantially torn down.
Committee Member Dyda indicated that these homes were built into the current
required side or front yard setbacks. He stated that it would be considered a hardship
to require a homeowner to tear down a portion of their residence in order to
accommodate on-site parking. He discussed the behavioral aspect of the issue and
IS-30
April 11, 2005
Page 3 of 11
noted that people who have the ability to park on-site choose to park on the street
because it is more convenient.
Committee Member Denton raised a concern with the use of tandem parking garage
because it does not help in getting cars off the street because of the behavioral aspect
of it.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the Development Code stops short of stating
whether parking should be side-by-side or tandem. He then raised a concern regarding
the Development Code’s parking dimension requirement and the size of cars being
driven today, noting that the two do not correspond.
Committee Member Dyda added that the City has no regulation that prevents residents
from using their garage for storage rather than parking. He then mentioned that one of
the Sub-Committee’s goals was to make certain that cars parked in the driveway did not
overhang onto the street.
Committee Member Karp stated that based on the Sub-Committee’s observation of the
area of concern focused on these four streets because the remaining area of Eastview
was like many other parts of the City.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that based on his observation, the time period that
these homes were developed dictate the character of the neighborhood and that for the
most part, Eastview is much like the remaining portion of the City with the exception of
the four streets that were developed in the early 1950’s.
Councilman Long noted that it was his impression that a great majority of homes built in
the 1940’s and 1950’s only had a one car garage, which changed to two-car garages as
the times changed in the 1960’s onward.
Committee Member Denton mentioned that the homes located on these four streets
were built as army housing.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on the Sub-Committee’s task thus far,
the impression at this time is that the entire Eastview area does not warrant an overlay
district. He stated that the Sub-Committee believes the overlay should include at least
the four streets mentioned this evening, and perhaps other streets as further analysis
dictates. He then noted that some other streets being considered as included in the
overlay are Caddington and Gunter, but that further research needs to be conducted
before the Sub-Committee makes its final recommendation.
Committee Member Denton noted that before the Committee makes any final decisions,
that Staff should prepare some “real life” examples to see whether the suggested
changes are applicable and can make a positive difference to the neighborhood.
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April 11, 2005
Page 4 of 11
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that in its past discussions it was
determined that creating a RS-6 zoning district for any portion of the Eastview area is
inappropriate and that the zoning for the area should be changed to RS-5 to better suit
the type of development that currently exists and the zoning at the time Los Angeles
County maintained jurisdiction of the Eastview area.
Councilman Long asked the Sub-Committee to clarify the streets being considered for
the overlay at the moment referring to the map placed on the power point slide. He
asked Staff to continue with its presentation.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the Sub-Committee is not recommending any
changes to the parking requirement. He then continued with his presentation by
discussing the setback standards. He reminded the Committee that there has been
discussion within the Committee to recommend increasing the side yard setback
requirement for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts. He mentioned that since there is an
isolated area within Eastview that needs special attention to encourage improvements
and not create a hardship to property owners, the Sub-Committee believes that as a
whole, Eastview is able to meet the new side yard setback standards, with the
exception of the four streets mentioned earlier. Therefore, the Sub-Committee is
recommending as part of the overlay district that the side yard setback requirement
remain at 5-feet.
Committee Member Dyda added that a change to the side yard setback requirement in
this specific area of Eastview would force people to build upward that would then
introduce possible view and compatibility concerns. He said however, that if a property
owner voluntarily tears down their entire home then they would be required to
reconstruct the new home at the increased setback requirement (as currently
proposed).
Councilman Long for clarification purposes reiterated that according to the Development
Code, if you tear down 50% or more of the existing interior and exterior walls, the Code
considers that to be a tear-down / rebuild project that is essentially a new home that
needs to be built at the current development standards.
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed. He then added that in this case, the Code exempts
an existing home from complying with the current setback requirements if more than
50% is being added to an existing residence.
Committee Member Denton noted that the Sub-Committee is recommending that for the
overlay district only tear-down / rebuilds or new homes would have to comply with the
new setback standards, otherwise additions to existing homes could meet the less
restrictive setback standards. She added that a lot of time was spent researching the
neighborhood, such as lot width, to see if the suggested developments standards are
realistic.
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April 11, 2005
Page 5 of 11
Committee Member Cartwright informed the Committee that to avoid an increase to the
property taxes, people leave up one wall when doing a major remodel. He said this will
encourage people not to tear down their home and to leave up one wall.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that at this time the Sub-Committee is not prepared
to give a suggested definition for a tear-down / rebuild.
Councilman Long summarized by stating that the Sub-Committee believes that the
entire Eastview area is fine, aside from changing the zoning designation to RS-5, and
that there are four streets, and possibly a few more streets, that would need special
attention in the form of an overlay district to be less restrictive than the proposed
development standards.
Committee Member Denton noted that many people are building second story additions
when they do a tear-down / rebuild. She said there is not as many view issues as one
might expect because of the terrain of the area, as well as the placement of windows on
the existing homes. She also raised a concern with the dense feel of the area.
Councilman Long asked Staff to continue with its presentation on Open Space.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Development Code requires 50% of the front
yard setback area be landscaped. He stated that the Sub-Committee is suggesting that
the percentage of landscape area be increased within the overlay district to create more
green space rather than hardscape. He stated that at first the Sub-Committee was
going to recommend increasing the landscape percentage within the front yard between
60% and 65%. However, after playing out different scenarios, such as driveway widths
and walkways, it seems that any percentage higher than 55% would not be feasible
within this area. He then noted that the Sub-Committee is also recommending for
discussion at a later time that the landscape requirement be evaluated and possibly
increased citywide.
Committee Member Dyda disagreed with Staff’s statement referring to illustrative
examples he prepared for two and three car garages with direct and indirect driveways
that would allow for 65% landscape requirement.
Committee Member Denton expressed a concern with Member Dyda’s numbers.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that Staff is still researching these numbers to see
what change, if any, can be considered for the landscape (open space) requirement.
He then mentioned that he would present the Committee with real life scenarios for
review at the next meeting. He reminded the Committee that tonight’s presentation is
merely an update and that the Sub-Committee will only give its final recommendation
once these topics have been fully analyzed.
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April 11, 2005
Page 6 of 11
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the Sub-Committee’s objective as
it relates to the Steering Committee’s objective. He questioned whether the Sub-
Committee’s objective applies to all of Eastview or just the overlay district.
Committee Member Karp and Dyda both indicated that the objective statement
originated for the entire Eastview area but has consequently been narrowed to the four
or so streets mapped as the overlay district.
Committee Member Denton stated that despite Staff’s request to continue this matter to
continue researching some grey areas regarding the Sub-Committee’s suggested
development standards for an overlay district, that she felt the Sub-Committee was
prepared to make its formal recommendation this evening.
Committee Member Dyda agreed that rezoning Eastview to an RS-5 district can be
considered a formal recommendation by the Sub-Committee, but felt that the specifics
to the development standards and the boundary limits for the overlay district still need to
be researched and felt that a formal recommendation at this time is premature.
Committee Member Lyon requested one of the Sub-Committee Members make a formal
recommendation to change the zoning for Eastview from RS-4 to RS-5.
Committee Member Dyda moved that based on the Sub-Committee’s analysis the
residential portion of the Eastview area should be recommended to the City Council to
be rezoned from RS-4 to RS-5 with the possibility that an overlay district be created with
specific development standards that will be mapped at a later time.
Committee Member Karp seconded the motion.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern that Staff’s analysis may have been limited to
visual impressions rather than statistical data. He then suggested that before
considering rezoning any portion of the City the Committee should be given statistical
information to support the recommendation.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that statistical information was prepared and
transmitted to the Committee early in the Committee’s overall discussion of the City and
its respective development standards. He mentioned that a table was prepared and
presented to the Committee in October 2004 that analyzed random streets within the
Eastview area, as well as other City neighborhoods, as it relates to lot size, setbacks, lot
coverage, and structure size.
Committee Member Dyda noted that it was looked at statistically and validated by field
observations.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the table previously presented to the Committee
and explained the data he collected for lots on Trudie and Jaybrook.
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April 11, 2005
Page 7 of 11
Councilman Long indicated that the motion is only to rezone the Eastview area from
RS-4 to RS-5 with the possibility of creating an overlay district pending further research
by Staff and the Sub-Committee. He noted the compelling evidence to recommend
rezoning Eastview was based on the data that revealed the average lot size was more
suitable for 5 or more lots.
Committee Member Slayden supports the motion and believes it is less complicated
than creating the once contemplated RS-6 zoning district.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that the difference between RS-4 and RS-5 is lot
coverage and lot area requirements.
Committee Member Denton feels that an overlay district is important for the four or more
streets because these home are small with one car garages.
Councilman Long would like to see a presentation by the Sub-Committee as to where
the overlay boundary line is to be drawn and why.
Commissioner Perestam asked if we knew how many properties exist within the
contemplated overlay district. He would like to see a total unit count for the overlay
district.
Councilman Long requested that the Sub-Committee present that information at the
next meeting, along with an overlay map and a justification as to why the boundary line
is being where it is.
Committee Member Cartwright sought clarification on the motion to rezone Eastview
from RS-4 to RS-5. He then asked if it was the Committee’s intent to create an Overlay
District. He then expressed his concern that the Committee has not been presented
with adequate information or documentation to support the motion.
Committee Member Denton responded that based on the Sub-Committee’s research
the proposed rezoning is to better suit the existing character of the area because RS-4
is an inappropriate zoning designation. She added that this will help eliminate any
future issues that may arise if changes are made to the RS-4 zoning designation that
may adversely impact this area if not properly zoned.
Committee Member Dyda added that the information presented has revealed that the
average lot size within Eastview is less than 10,000 square feet in area, which is the
minimum lot area for the RS-4 zoning district. He suggested that the rezoning to RS-5
is intended to represent what actually exists. He stated that the lots that exceed 10,000
square feet in area are because of the canyons that are un-buildable.
Committee Member Cartwright asked what the average lot size is for the lots on
Caddington.
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April 11, 2005
Page 8 of 11
Councilman Long stated that there is always some deviation, some lots may be larger
and some smaller. He referred to his neighborhood as an example and said that the
zoning as a whole is based on the average lot size of the area.
Committee Member Cartwright believes that in order to present the City Council with a
rezoning recommendation, the research conducted should include the entire City.
Committee Member Dyda stated that is quite a cumbersome task.
Councilman Long indicated that Staff presented the Committee with data regarding
average lot size, lot depth, lot width, and structure size for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning
districts within the entire City.
Committee Member Denton recalls that she requested information be presented for the
entire City before the Committee isolated the discussion to Eastview.
Senior Planner Mihranian reminded the Committee that at the August 30, 2004 meeting,
Staff first presented the Committee with a table that analyzed the lots for the RS-4 and
RS-5 zoning districts throughout the City. He mentioned that the Table was updated for
the October 11, 2004 meeting because Committee Member Denton requested more
streets from Eastview be added to the table. He stated that the analysis was prompted
by the Committee’s discussion on changing the setback requirements. He added that
the streets mentioned in the table represent samples for each neighborhood within the
RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts within the City. He then explained the table.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that based on the table, the Committee needs to
justify why it is only changing the zoning for the Eastview area and not areas such as
the Hartcrest Drive, where the average lot size does not match the zoning designation.
Commissioner Perestam asked the Sub-Committee for clarification on the difference
between a tear-down/rebuild and a remodel for purposes of the Overlay District.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the definition of a tear-down/rebuild for the
purposes of the Overlay district has not been completely defined at this time.
Committee Member Denton noted that in terms of tear-down/rebuilds those type of
projects within the contemplated overlay district would be subject to the new proposed
standards.
Councilman Long called for a vote on the motion to recommend to the City
Council that the Eastview area be rezoned from RS-4 to RS-5 and to ask the Sub-
Committee to further study the possibility of whether or not there should be an
Overlay District, and if so, what the justification, boundaries and how would it be
implemented for review at a subsequent meeting.
The Motion passed unanimously.
IS-36
Ruttenberg and Vice Chairman Lewis dissenting, and Commissioner Tetreault
abstaining.
The motion to accept the committee’s recommendation (alternative No. 1) failed,
(3-4) with Commissioners Gerstner, Ruttenberg, Tomblin, and Vice Chairman
Lewis dissenting.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to reject the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the rear yard setback (alternative No. 2), seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Knight dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic before the Planning Commission is the
side-yard setback, explaining the Committee recommendation was to enact a 15-foot
aggregate side-yard setback for all lots in all zoning districts that were created before
City incorporation.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to accept the committee’s recommendation in
regards to increasing the side yard setback, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis.
Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated the next topic is the Eastview re-zoning. He explained
that the committee recommended changing all of the RS-4 zoned areas in Eastview to
RS-5.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that applications on lots in Eastview have come to the
Planning Commission, and these are looked at as legal nonconforming lots. He
questioned why a zone change was necessary, and why they couldn’t remain legal
nonconforming lots. He felt that changing the zoning opens up the opportunity for
subdividing some of the lots and he didn’t want that opportunity opened up. Other than
correcting the non-conformities, he asked what other positive thing is being done by
changing the zoning in that area.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if this recommendation is in any way tied into the
recommendation for the overlay district.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the overlay proposal deals more directly with the
issue of existing non-conforming issues, as that one tract has many structures in it that
don’t meet setback requirements, have inadequate off-street parking, and other
deficiencies that were identified by the committee.
Chairman Perestam asked staff if the area proposed for the zone change from RS-4 to
RS-5 is the same geographic location as the proposed Mira Vista Overlay Control
District.
Associate Planner Fox answered that they are one in the same.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 11 IS-37
Chairman Perestam asked staff if there are any other ties that would prevent approving
the Overlay District if the City did not change the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the overlay by its nature is creating specialized
standards that aren’t addressed in the standards for the tract.
Vice Chairman Lewis moved to reject the recommendation of the committee
regarding the proposed zone change from RS-4 to RS-5 (alternative No. 2),
seconded by Commissioner Knight.
Commissioner Ruttenberg understood that the committee had participation from the
community when making these recommendations, and asked if the community was
generally in favor of this proposed change.
Chairman Perestam answered that the community was generally in favor of the
proposed changed, however he felt that if the overlay district assured a fifty two percent
lot coverage, this would accommodate the community’s concern.
Commissioner Tetreault expressed his concern that the zone change would allow some
of the lots to be subdivided.
Associate Planner Fox stated that staff can report back to the Planning Commission as
to how many lots in Eastview are over 16,000 square feet and therefore could
potentially be subdivided if the zoning changed.
Vice Chairman Lewis withdrew his motion.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the discussion regarding changing
the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5 to a future meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Ruttenberg
dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic is the committee’s suggestion of a
proposed overlay control district, noting in the staff report the suggested regulations that
would apply in the overlay control district.
Chairman Perestam added that the recommendations by the Committee were made
after extensive neighborhood input from the residents.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt alternative No. 1 of the staff report, with
the modification that the lot coverage be changed to fifty two percent lot
coverage, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained the next item, which was to strike language regarding
courtyard area lot coverage, and noted in the staff report the language being discussed.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 12 IS-38
Associate Planner Fox noted that because of the scope of changes, staff and the
applicant agree that June 10th may not give them enough time, especially if the Planning
Commission would like the project re-silhouetted. He therefore suggested that the
public hearing be continued to the June 24th meeting, or to a meeting from that date.
Commissioner Knight modified the motion to continue the public hearing to June
24, 2008, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
2. Residential Development Standards code amendment & zone change
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, reporting on the additional research
staff had done in regards to subdivision potential under the suggested change in the
RS-4 zoning to the RS-5 zoning in the Eastview area.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to accept staff’s recommendations, seconded by
Commissioner Knight.
Chairman Perestam recalled from the last meeting that the Planning Commission had
discussed not approving the proposed zone change because the proposed overlay
district would give the flexibility they were looking for.
Associate Planner Fox recalled there was discussion about that at the previous
meeting, however he did not recall that being the consensus. He pointed out that the
overlay district would only give the flexibility in the actual areas covered by the overlay
and not the entire RS-4 zoning district.
The motion to accept staff’s recommendation for the RS-4 zoning district was
approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained that at the last meeting there was a question regarding
the flag lots and why Councilman Gardner had asked the Planning Commission to look
at the issue. He explained that staff had looked at the video of the City Council meeting
and also provided the definitions of “driveway” and “private street”, and explained staff’s
recommendation as written in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight was concerned about the use of the term “reciprocal easement”
as used in staff’s recommendation and didn’t feel it should be used in this circumstance.
Associate Planner Fox referred to page 12 of the staff report, which is the language staff
is recommending, and suggested striking the word “reciprocal” and simply say “an
access easement”.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approved staff’s recommendation (alternative
No. 2) with the deletion of the word “reciprocal”, seconded by Commissioner
Knight. Approved, (7-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 11 IS-39
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
MIRA VISTA OVERLAY DISTRICT
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Mira Vista Overlay District
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Create the Mira Vista Overlay Control (OC-5) District and
Regulations for Tract No. 16010 in the Eastview area
DISCUSSION At the time that the Committee agreed to recommend that the
rezoning of Eastview, concerns were raised regarding the
impacts such a change might have, such as the creation or
exacerbation of non-conforming setbacks, lot coverage and
the like. A subcommittee identified a portion of Eastview as a
candidate for an overlay district. Pursuant to Section
17.40.010 of the Development Code, an overlay control
district is intended to “provide criteria which further reduce
potential impacts which could be directly created or indirectly
induced by proposed and existing developments in sensitive
areas of the City. These areas have been defined by the
General Plan and other studies to be sensitive areas due to
unique characteristics contributing significantly to the City’s
form, appearance, natural setting, and historical and cultural
heritage.”
The area identified is Tract No. 16010, which was subdivided
in the late 1940s. The homes that were built there in the early
1950s were very small and had only 1-car garages. In
addition to the fact that the homes in this neighborhood are far
smaller than average and have inadequate off-street parking,
the lots in this tract are smaller than the lots located in other,
newer single-family neighborhoods in Eastview. The
determination to form an overlay district was based upon the
existing physical development patterns found within this tract.
Therefore, in order to promote the modernization of the
housing stock in this unique tract (Mira Vista), the
subcommittee recommended the creation of an overlay
district.
On May 13, 2008, the Planning Commission asked to revisit
the development standards for the Mira Vista Overlay Control
(OC-5) District to consider the appropriateness of allowing
tandem garage parking. Notwithstanding Staff’s concern
about the frequent underutilization of tandem parking spaces,
Staff agrees that the unique circumstances in this area—the
fact that the homes were originally built with only single-car
garages—makes it perhaps the one area of the City where
IS-40
tandem parking should be allowed to satisfy the minimum off-
street parking requirements. This would allow property
owners to provide additional off-street parking without having
to demolish significant portions of existing residences to
provide two (2) enclosed off-street spaces. Staff understands
that the concerns of Mira Vista residents included finding ways
to get more vehicles off the streets, and tandem parking would
help to address this concern. Furthermore, Staff suggests
allowing the construction of new detached garages to
encroach into the 15-foot rear-yard setback as another means
to increase the number of off-street parking space in the
neighborhood. Under the County’s jurisdiction, such detached
rear-yard garages were frequently permitted, so this is a
common development pattern within the overlay district area.
In addition, Staff recommends limiting the encroachment of
detached garage to within five feet (5’-0”) of the rear property
line and including an analysis of view impacts so as to
minimize adverse impacts upon abutting properties.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept RDSSC and Staff recommendations
2. Reject RDSSC and Staff recommendations
3. Propose modifications to RDSSC and Staff recom-
mendations
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Code Section 17.40.080
Diagrams of Alternative Garage Concepts
RDSSC Minutes of June 13, 2005 (excerpt)
RDSSC Minutes of February 27, 2006 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 7 and Exhibit ‘B’ of Draft Ordinance
IS-41
Proposed Section 17.40.080
17.40.080 Mira Vista overlay control district (OC-5) and regulations
A. Purpose. The purpose of the Mira Vista overlay control district (OC-5) is
established to:
1. Acknowledge the unique qualities of the overlay area, which is generally
characterized by very small homes on small lots, with substandard or no
off-street parking facilities; and,
2. Allow for the modernization and enlargement of the homes in the overlay
area, in a manner compatible with the unique character of the
neighborhood, and with the needs and desires of current property owners.
B. Application. The Mira Vista overlay control district (OC-5) shall be applicable to
lots located within Tract No. 16010, as recorded on September 8, 1949 in Book
353, Pages 23 through 29 (inclusive), of maps of the County of Los Angeles,
including therein any lots created through the subsequent subdivision of the two
hundred fifteen (215) original lots in the tract, but excluding therefrom that portion
of Lot 215 of Tract No. 16010 that was subdivided as a portion of Tract
No. 21184, as recorded on September 28, 1955 in Book 578, Pages 7 through 8
(inclusive), of maps of the County of Los Angeles.
C. Development Standards. The following development standards shall apply to
lots subject to the Mira Vista overlay control district (OC-5). If not specified
below, the RS-5 zoning district and other general development standards shall
apply.
1. Minimum Setbacks. The following minimum building setbacks shall be
maintained:
Front Interior Side Street Side Rear
20’ 5’ 10’ 15’
2. Front Entry Porch. A front entry porch shall be permitted to encroach into
the required front-yard setback, provided that the following criteria are
met:
a. The footprint of the porch does not exceed 50 square feet in area;
b. The footprint of the porch does not encroach more than 5 feet into
the required front yard; and,
c. The height of the porch does not exceed 16 feet in height or the
highest roof ridgeline, whichever is lower.
3. Front-Yard Landscaped Area. If a Neighborhood Compatibility finding is
required for a project, where applicable a landscaped parkway shall be
IS-42
provided by the property owner. Approvals for parkway landscaping shall
be obtained from the Director of Public Works prior to issuance of building
or grading permits. In addition, at least 50% of the front yard area shall be
maintained as landscape area, in accordance with as defined in Section
17.48.030(D).
4. Driveways. In cases where a Neighborhood Compatibility finding is
required for a project, if a garage is located in the rear of a property, a
minimum 9-foot-wide driveway shall be provided that utilizes grass strips
or “grasscrete.” If a garage is located at the front of a property, a
minimum 18-inch-wide landscaped area shall be provided between the
side property line and the nearest edge of the driveway.
5. Garages. As alternatives to the minimum off-street parking requirements
specified in Section 17.02.030(E), enclosed garage spaces may be
provided as follows:
a. Tandem parking spaces in an attached garage, provided that each
garage space meets the minimum dimensions specified in Section
17.02.030(E); or,
b. Detached garage encroaching to within five feet of the rear property
line provided that:
i. The each garage space meets the minimum dimensions
specified in Section 17.02.030(E);
ii. The maximum height of the garage does not exceed twelve
feet; and,
iii. The Director determines that the detached garage will not
result in significant view impacts from the viewing area of
any nearby properties.
iv. All other development standards are met, including but not
limited to lot coverage, side setbacks and construction on
extreme slopes.
6. Lot Coverage. Notwithstanding the underlying zoning within the overlay
control district area, the maximum permitted lot coverage shall be 52%, as
defined in Section 17.02-040(A)(5).
IS-43
Existing
House
New
Addition
5’
Expand Existing 1-Car Garage
to 2-Car Tandem Garage
5’
15’
IS-44
New 1-
Car
Garage
Existing
House
New
Addition
Retain Existing
1-Car Garage
5’
5’
5’
5’
15’
IS-45
New 2-Car
Garage
Existing
House
New
Addition
Existing 1-Car Garage
Converted to Living Area
5’
5’
5’
5’
15’
IS-46
ADOPTED: JULY 11, 2005
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS STANDARDS STEERING COMMITTEE
REGULAR MEETING
June 13, 2005
CALL TO ORDER
Councilman Wolowicz called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. The meeting was held at
the City Hall Community Room, 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard.
ROLL CALL
Present: Councilman Wolowicz, Planning Commissioners Gerstner and Perestam,
Committee Members Cartwright, Karp, Lyon, Dyda, Denton, and Slayden.
Absent: Councilman Long and Commissioner Mueller.
Also present was Senior Planner Mihranian.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the Agenda, seconded by Committee
Member Karp.
Without objection, the agenda was approved by the Committee.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee if there were any changes to the April 11,
2005 draft minutes.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the April 11, 2005 minutes, seconded by
Committee Member Lyon.
The motion passed without objection. Councilman Wolowicz abstained since he was
not present at the April 11, 2005 meeting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
Councilman Wolowicz asked for the Eastview Sub-Committee presentation.
Senior Planner Mihranian began the presentation with some background information
that was previously presented to the Committee. He summarized the zoning
established by the County prior to incorporation and the various residential
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neighborhoods that comprise the Eastview area. He reminded the Committee that data
was collected from various neighborhoods as it relates to lot size, lot dimensions, and
structure size. He stated that the data collected represent samples from these
neighborhoods intended to give the Committee an idea of what exists in this area. He
stated that based on the data presented to the Committee and the notion that the
current development standards and the current zoning designation are need of further
review, Subcommittee was formed. The Subcommittee meet on several occasions and
determined that the Eastview Area, as a whole, should be rezoned from RS-4 to RS-5
because the existing density was better represented with the RS-5 designation. It was
pointed out that there is a wide range of lot sizes, ranging from 5,000 square feet to
14,000 square feet. He stated that the larger lots consist of extreme slopes that slope
into the canyons areas and that for the most part, the average lot size is approximately
8,000 square feet, which is better represented by the RS-5 zoning designation.
Mr. Mihranian mentioned that the Committee directed the Subcommittee to consider
residential development standards in the form of an overlay district for two possible
areas. He reported that after further review of the two areas in questions, researching
data on the lots and field observations, the Subcommittee concluded that only one
overlay district was necessary. He mentioned that the proposed overlay district would
be comprised of four streets within Eastview. He noted that the homes in this area were
built in the early 1950’s that did not resemble the character of the City. He stated that
the goal of the Subcommittee was to develop residential development standards that
would encourage modernization without causing the property owners undue hardship.
He indicated that the overlay district is comprised of 220 housing units, that is less than
10% of the 2,201 housing units within Eastview. He then presented the Committee with
a map that delineates the Overlay District.
He then introduced the residential development standards proposed by the
Subcommittee. He mentioned that as the Subcommittee analyzed the Eastview Area, it
was the opinion that most of Eastview is comparable with the rest of the City with two
car garages and adequate size yards to accommodate expansions. He stated that the
Subcommittee felt that the area identified as the Overlay District is an area experiencing
a significant amount of new construction and that current development standards should
be written to assist the property owners with modernizing their homes. He proceeded to
explain the proposed standards.
Setbacks
Since the Committee is contemplating increasing the side yard setback requirement
from 5-feet to 10-feet for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning districts, the Subcommittee felt that
such a change to the area comprised by the overlay district would be prohibitive. The
Subcommittee decided that additions to existing residences should maintain the current
side yard setback requirement of 5-feet, in addition to the 20-foot front yard setback
requirement and the 15-foot rear yard setback requirement. He then noted that for new
construction, which the Subcommittee is recommending being defined as tear-down /
rebuilds consisting of 75% or more of interior and exterior walls, that the new setback
requirements for the RS-4 and RS-5 zoning district apply. The new standard would
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require a 15-foot side yard setback requirement, with a minimum of 5-feet on one side.
He then presented an illustrative example of the proposed change along with a sample
scenario.
Second-Story Setbacks
He introduced a new requirement that does not currently apply throughout the City. He
stated that the Subcommittee is only recommending this criteria if it is applied citywide,
otherwise it would be considered a hardship to these property owners which is in direct
conflict with the goal of the Subcommittee. As proposed, the second story setback
requirement would require the floor area or ceiling volume above 16-feet be no more
than 2/3rds the lower level, and that the second story would have to be setback 25-feet
from the front property line. He explained that this requirement was to provide
articulation between the lower and upper levels, especially the street facing façade. He
then stated that this requirement would provide the articulation up front without having
property owners revise their plans to incorporate articulation.
Committee Member Dyda stressed that this requirement would only apply if it applied
Citywide, otherwise it would be considered more restrictive than the rest of the City. He
stated that this requirement would be beneficial Citywide.
Committee Member Denton noted that the Subcommittee’s proposal includes various
other standards that are to be considered Citywide.
Committee Member Cartwright asked if the tear-down / rebuild definition included in the
overlay district is consistent with the definition in the Development Code.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that the definition is different in that the Overlay District
is less restrictive.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to add the Subcommittee’s recommended Citywide
changes to the Committee’s Task List. He then asked for clarification on the second
story setback requirement.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the second story would have to be setback an
additional five feet from the first story.
Committee Member Lyon stated that it was his understanding that the second story
setback requirement already applied.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the 25-foot setback requirement was once in the
Code but was taken out of the Code because of the Neighborhood Compatibility
requirement.
Committee Member Denton asked if the Neighborhood Compatibility requirement
currently addresses articulation adequately.
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Senior Planner Mihranian stated that Neighborhood Compatibility ensures articulation is
incorporated into the design of a project. However, he stated that the process getting to
the point where adequate articulation is provided may be considered a long and costly
process for property owners because of the various revisions that need to be made to
the plans. He explained that it is rare to see adequate articulation with the initial
submittal, stating that Staff spends a lot of time working with the project applicant to get
to that point. He mentioned that having this requirement would improve the starting
point.
Committee Member Denton noted that it sounded as though it is not clear to a property
owner up front as to what is adequate articulation.
Commissioner Perestam suggested that the second story setback requirement be
collapsed with the general setback requirements.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to continue with the Subcommittee’s presentation.
Senior Planner Mihranian provided the Committee with an illustrative example of the
second story setback requirement. He then continued to the next proposed
development standard.
Front Entry Porches
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the Front Entry Porch standard as one that does
not currently exist, nor is it suggested to apply Citywide. He stated that entry porches
are unique to the Overlay District and that the standard has been written to encourage
the use of entry porches by allow the porch to encroach into the required front yard
setback by 5-feet and not to exceed 50 square feet in area or 16-feet in height. He
mentioned allowing this architecture feature would enhance the character of the area
without causing an undue hardship to property owners who want porches but cannot
design them because of the setback requirement unless a Variance is processed.
Commissioner Gertsner raised a concern with the proposed language if it is applied
Citywide.
Committee Member Dyda reiterated that this architectural feature is unique to the
Overlay District and that is why the standard is included in the proposal.
Committee Member Denton raised a concern that applying such a standard to this area
that does not apply Citywide may result in a further disconnect with the remaining City.
Committee Member Karp noted that the standard is designed to enhance a feature that
already exists and to make it easier for a property owner to build.
Senior Planner Mihranian provided the Committee with an illustrative example of a front
entry porch.
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Lot Coverage
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that the maximum lot coverage requirement for the
Overlay District would remain at 52%, which is the standard for the RS-5 zoning district.
He then presented an illustrative example explaining the definition of lot coverage. He
noted that as a future agenda item, there will be a discussion on modifying the definition
of lot coverage so that courtyards do not apply.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that included courtyards are difficult to define and apply
when it comes to lot coverage calculations.
Front Yard Landscape Area
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that this criteria currently exists in the Development
Code and requires that no more than 50% of the required front yard be hardscape, that
is the area 20-feet in from the front property line. He noted the Overlay District does not
propose to change that requirement. However, he mentioned that for projects that
require the Neighborhood Compatibility requirement, which is considered a substantial
development project, if a property does not have a green parkway the property owner
will be required to remove the concrete from the parkway and replace it with
landscaping. The intent is to improve the open and green impression of the area.
Committee Member Lyon suggested removing the word “unimproved” from the
definition to further clarify the intent.
Committee Member Slayden raised a concern with the compatibility with the
neighborhood.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that the words “where applicable” were added to the
text so that it could be addressed on a case-by-case basis. The goal is ultimately to
increase the green open space requirement. He mentioned that the City Attorney has
not reviewed this criteria and may have a concern with such a requirement as it relates
to a nexus with the development project.
Committee Member Denton indicated that this requirement is proposed to be
considered throughout the City.
Councilman Wolowicz mentioned that if this is considered, language should be added
that explains the intent and objective, as well as it is not to cause an undue hardship on
property owners.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that if the Overlay District is added to the
Development Code, that such language would be included in the ordinance that
explains the objective for creating the Overlay District.
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Committee Member Cartwright suggested that guidelines be developed for the
Department of Public Works.
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that the City Attorney has not reviewed the
language as proposed. He mentioned that she might have a concern with requiring
improvements within the public right-of-way and its nexus to a development application.
Committee Member Dyda mentioned that work within the right-of-way requires an
encroachment permit. He questioned whether the concrete walkways that exist were
permitted by the City or County.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if encroachment permits exist at City Hall.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that if an encroachment permit were issued by the
County prior to incorporation, the City may not have a record of the permit for one
reason or another, such as it being lost in the transfer of information between agencies
at the time of incorporation. He then mentioned that City issued permits should be on
file.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to further investigate this matter.
Commissioner Perestam indicated that this requirement should not be problematic
because the Code already has a landscape requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that the parkway requirement does not neatly fit
under the current landscape requirement because you are dealing with public property
versus private property.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern regarding the application of the
parkway requirement as it relates to the entire City and thought that perhaps the City
can require such a change across the board.
Councilman Wolowicz agreed with Member Cartwright and stated that there were two
options: 1) Require such a change throughout the City, or 2) Notify residents that
certain projects will require a green parkway.
Committee Member Denton did not think it is a viable option to require people to make
such a change. She prefers that the change occur over an extended period of time
through major development projects.
Off-Street Parking
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the majority of the homes within the Overlay
District were built in the 1950’s. Because of the time period, these homes mostly have
a one car garage and one car driveway. In order improve the off-street parking situation
in this area, it is proposed that new single-family residences, as defined for the Overlay
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District, would be required to provide a two-car garage and two-car driveway. He
reminded the Committee that this requirement is less restrictive than the current Code
requirement that states if more than 50% of existing interior and exterior walls are
demolished current Code compliance is required. He stated that this is a notable
hardship for most of the property owners in this area because of the mere size of the
existing homes.
Committee Member Slayden asked if a one car driveway was adequate for a two car
garage.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that if a property owner is designing a two car
garage they should be able to incorporate a two car driveway into the project. He stated
that the dimension for a parking space is currently 9-feet by 20-feet. He indicated that
the Committee may want to consider increasing the dimensions to accommodate the
size of vehicles being driven today. He noted that this item will be brought back to the
Committee at a later time. He then continued with the presentation by stating as a new
Citywide requirement, projects that trigger the Neighborhood Compatibility requirement,
would be required to provide an 18-inch landscape area between the side property line
and the driveway edge. The intent here is to maintain more landscape area along the
side of the property.
Fences
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the fence requirement of 42-inches within the
front yard area and 80% open and permeable is the existing Code requirement. He
then presented the Committee with an illustrative example.
He summarized the Subcommittee’s recommended development criteria for the Overlay
District and then reiterated that the Subcommittee believes that before we present the
City Council with such a recommendation, it would be beneficial to present this
information to the residents that live within the Overlay District to receive input from
them. He stated that if the suggested standards are not welcomed by the residents,
that the Committee should decide whether or not to proceed with such changes.
Committee Member Dyda agreed stating that a “straw-man” needs to be presented to
the residents before we get too far down the stream.
Senior Planner Mihranian believes that it is important to hear what the residents have to
say before preparing the final draft for Council consideration. He stated that the
residents may have suggestions that the Subcommittee and Committee did not
consider.
Committee Member Cartwright asked why items are listed under the Overlay District
when they already exist in the Development Code.
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Senior Planner Mihranian stated that for organizational purposes it would be simpler to
have all the development criteria in one section rather that having to search for specific
standards throughout the Development Code.
Councilman Wolowicz thinks it would be helpful to identify the criteria that is different
from the RS-5 zoning district.
Committee Member Denton noted that there are three separate items for the Overlay
district, that being setbacks, front entry porches, and the definition of a new single-
family residence.
Commissioner Perestam questioned whether the second-story setback requirement
was in direct conflict with the objective to make the standards simpler for the Overlay
District to encourage modernization.
Committee Member Denton agreed, but stated that the intent here is to apply these
requirements Citywide. She noted that if they do not apply Citywide, then they would be
considered more restrictive and should not apply to the Overlay District.
Committee Member Dyda mentioned that to him Citywide could mean the RS-4 and
RS-5 zoning districts.
Committee Member Denton believes that the reason why this is being presented as a
Citywide item is that the Subcommittee felt that such standards would benefit the entire
City. However, it doesn’t mean that the final outcome applies across the board. She
thinks this topic should be opened for discussion as a separate Citywide item.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if the Committee wants to accept the Second Story
Setback requirement, it should be accepted with the understanding that it should be
considered Citywide.
Committee Member Dyda moved that the Committee accept the boundaries
established for the Overlay District as presented by Staff.
Committee Member Slayden seconded the motion.
The motion passed without objection by the Committee.
Committee Member Dyda moved to accept the Eastview Overlay Residential
Development Standards with the understanding that second-story setbacks,
second paragraph of V, and VI be considered as a Citywide requirement and if
not, then the proposed standards should not apply to the Overlay District.
Committee Member Karp seconded the motion.
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Committee Member Lyon raised a question regarding the language for Item II and
suggested that the last paragraph is overly restrictive in that the Code refers to a 3/4th
requirement and that the suggested language refers to 2/3rd.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the 3/4th requirement is to determine whether
a Height Variation project is considered by the Planning Director or the Planning
Commission. He stated that it is not a development standard and stated that aside from
Neighborhood Compatibility, the Code does not restrict the size of a second story.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested that the criteria be replaced to 3/4th because it is
less restrictive.
Committee Member Lyon agreed.
Commissioner Gerstner believes that the two requirements make it too difficult and
restrictive for a property owner. He suggested that the Committee pick the standard
that states where the articulation should occur. He then raised a concern regarding the
side yard setback for the second story.
Committee Member Lyon proposed an amendment to the motion by deleting the first
sentence to the second paragraph.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
Commissioner Gerstner asked for a definition of articulation.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that Staff considers articulation a setback in a building’s
massing.
Committee Member Lyon proposed amending his original amendment to the motion by
deleting the entire paragraph.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the amendment to the motion.
Commissioner Perestam suggested changing the title to Front Yard Second Story
Setback and merging Item Nos. I and II.
Committee Member Dyda raised a concern with the application of the setback
requirements if Item Nos. I and II were collapsed because it has the potential to apply
Citywide. He provided a substitute motion that would keep Item No. II, adding “16-feet
or higher in height” after the Front Yard Setback requirement for second stories, and
deleting the last paragraph.
Committee Member Karp accepted the substitute motion.
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Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with the wording for the Second Story Side
Yard Setback requirement stating that the final outcome may result in the use of
overhangs if not further clarified to be similar with the first story setback requirement.
Commissioner Perestam expressed his concern that the Second Story Setback
requirement is more restrictive than the remaining City.
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that this requirement would only apply if found
acceptable for other zoning districts within the City.
Committee Member Denton indicated that the Citywide residential development
standards have been found to be too restrictive for this specific area because the
homes are not the same as other homes throughout the City.
Committee Member Lyon suggested a language modification to Item No. II inserting
after 16-feet in height “lie wholly within the first story footprint and shall…”
Committee Member Dyda accepted the amended language.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for additional comments.
Committee Member Denton asked when would the Committee review the City’s current
parking standards, referring to tandem parking and minimum parking dimensions.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated the parking requirements will be brought back for
Committee discussion at a later date. He indicated that as a result of the
Subcommittee’s recommendation, Staff believes that the Committee’s Task List needs
to be revised to include the items that were noted to be Citywide standards.
Committee Member Cartwright wants to make sure that the Committee will have an
opportunity to review the final draft of the Overlay District.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the entire Committee will be involved in the
presentation to the neighborhood.
Committee Member Denton asked when and who will be reviewing the items proposed
to be changed for the entire City.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that if the Committee accepts the proposed Overlay
District Standards, he suggested that for the time being we put this item aside and move
on with the remaining items on the Committee’s Task List. Once the Committee has
completed its entire task, the changes that are proposed can be revisited for the
Overlay District and then presented to the neighborhood as a workshop. He stated that
a Committee meeting can be dedicated to the Overlay District and that a public notice
would be sent to the neighborhood inviting them to attend the meeting and to provide
input on the proposed Overlay District. He then stated that after that workshop, the
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Committee should go back and review the Standards and at that time determine what
changes, if any, need to made or to determine whether to move forward with the
recommendation. He believes that before this item is presented to the Council, the
Committee should present it to the neighborhood to address any concerns early in the
planning process.
Committee Member Dyda believes that the community involvement is a two step
process where we first present the Overlay District to the neighborhood and then we
present the Citywide changes to the residents of the City.
Committee Member Karp believes that the Overlay District should not be presented to
the neighborhood until after the Committee reviews its entire task, that way if the
Overlay District needs to be modified it can be done without confusing the residents with
various renditions.
Councilman Wolowicz asked that Staff bring back a revised Committee Task List along
with some of these Citywide items to the next Committee meeting.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern regarding improvements on City property,
such as the green parkway. He stated that the requirement is reasonable for the
Eastview area but may not be considered reasonable throughout the City. He would
like the City Attorney to comment on this before we present this item to the residents.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to research this matter identifying concerns regarding
parkways and permits that have or have not been issued. He also understands this to
be huge task. He then asked for a vote on the motion regarding the Overlay District.
The amended motion passed without objection.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to send the matter regarding the parkway to the City
Attorney and whether this should apply Citywide. He asked if other items should be
added to the Task List for future Committee discussion.
Commissioner Perestam referred to a comment he made at the April 11, 2005 meeting
regarding the analysis of traffic, noise, views, and density impacts when it comes to the
Subcommittee’s assignment and whether that analysis occurred.
Committee Member Dyda indicated those items were considered.
Committee Member Cartwright asked for an update on the Committee’s Task List since
we are approaching the one year anniversary.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the March 9, 2005 agenda packet for the most
recent Task List.
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Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to present the Committee with an updated Task List
at the next meeting, that is to include items added this evening. He requested that
some of the items be placed on the agenda for discussion purposes as well. He
suggested that we consider extended the calendar to December 31, 2005 and added up
to two additional meetings to keep things moving along, perhaps a couple times a
month rather than once a month.
The majority of the Committee agreed to extend its tenure to December 31, 2005 and to
increase the meeting frequency by at least two meetings.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the meeting time should be extended to 10:00 p.m.
The majority of the Committee disagreed.
Committee Member Dyda suggested adding time limits to each agenda topic.
Councilman Wolowicz asked to continue Agenda Items 5-2 and 6-1 to the July 11, 2005
meeting. He then noted that Staff is requesting to reschedule the August 8, 2005
meeting. He stated that Staff should consider a replacement meeting along with the
revised calendar.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Councilman Wolowicz asked for any public comments.
There were no public comments
ADJOURNMENT
Committee Member Dyda moved to adjourn the meeting.
Committee Member Karp seconded the motion.
The meeting adjourned at 9:23 p.m.
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CONTINUED BUSINESS
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next item on the agenda pertaining to the Mira
Vista Overlay District. He presented the Committee with an updated table summarizing
the proposed development standards for the overlay district. He noted that the table
was updated to include a column that lists the public concerns raised at the February
13th meeting. He then distributed a handout prepared by Committee Member Dyda
responding to the various concerns raised by the public at the workshop.
Councilman Wolowicz requested that the Committee discuss each item listed on the
table individually.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that the current proposal to rezone the Mira Vista
Overlay District, as well as the entire Eastview Area, from RS-4 to RS-5 raised public
concern pertaining to increased density through additional subdivisions. He stated that
he spoke to Committee Member Denton who is requesting that Staff gather additional
data for the entire Eastview Area, including the proposed overlay district, that analyzes
how many lots can potentially be subdivided if the zoning were changed to RS-5.
Councilman Wolowicz referred to Committee Member Dyda’s handout, specifically the
preamble that states the intent of the Overlay District. He stated that it is important to
clearly state why the overlay district is being considered and the preamble should
explain why the zoning is being changed from RS-4 to RS-5.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern that based on the comments heard at
the workshop, the residents are not certain whether the proposal is a good idea.
Committee Member Slayden added that some residents felt the proposal was more
restrictive.
Committee Member Cartwright summarized the public concerns as being parking, side
yard setbacks, the increase in the threshold from 50% to 75%, and the zone change
from RS-4 to RS-5 resulting in a higher density.
Commissioner Perestam commented how there was no discussion on the two options
that exist for remodeling, that is either going upward or outward. He asked if the
Committee is encouraging residents to build upward or if the Committee even has a
position on this topic.
Committee Member Slayden responded that neighborhood compatibility is the
mechanism that determines whether a project is built upward or outward.
Committee Member Lyon stated that he does not see a change in the zoning to RS-5 as
being problematic because there are only a handful of lots in the area that can
conceivably be subdivided.
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Committee Member Dyda concurred with Mr. Lyon. He stated that the configuration of
the existing lots would prohibit subdivisions and the development of these lots. He
added that there are mechanisms in place, such as neighborhood compatibility and the
height variation requirement that will determine the development pattern of the area. He
does not believe changing the zoning will result in an increase to density.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that the Committee should be able to
demonstrate that the change to the zoning will not result in an increase in density.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the data can be collected. He added that the
criteria in place for subdividing a lot within the RS-5 zoning district would make it nearly
impossible for most properties in the area to be subdivided, referring to the minimum lot
width dimension and the minimum driveway width requirement for a flag lot.
Councilman Wolowicz requested the Committee review the preamble provided by
Committee Member Dyda. He stated that he would like the preamble to include a
discussion on the zone change without getting too long, such as the zone change is
intended to represent the existing built condition of the area.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the criteria for the RS-4 zoning district would
create a hardship whereas the RS-5 zoning district would not because of the differing
criteria. He explained that the public perception of the change would be different if
written in that manner. The change is intended to correct the hardship.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to wordsmith the preamble as expressed by
Committee Member Dyda.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked the Committee whether language should be added to
the table that indicates the minimum lot dimensions and lot area criteria taken from the
subdivision ordinance.
Commissioner Perestam stated that it is essential that this Committee have the data on
how many lots can conceivably be subdivided if the zoning changes.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that he could collect data on lots that are 16,000
square feet or larger because according to the RS-5 zoning district the minimum lot
area is 8,000 square feet. He stated that once he has collected that information, he can
further study each lot to see if the combined topography and lot dimensions will allow
these lots to be subdivided.
Councilman Wolowicz requested that the preamble explain the intent of the zone
change.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained the criteria for setbacks, stating that there are two
sets of standards for side yard setbacks, one for additions and the other for new homes
including tear-down and rebuilds of 75% or more of the interior and exterior walls. He
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stated that concerns from the public were raised at the workshop relating to the side
yard setback criteria being too restrictive for new homes.
Committee Member Dyda noted that based on what he heard at the workshop he would
like to provide an option that would allow detached garages to be built toward the rear of
a property with an 8-foot wide driveway and eliminate the 18-inch landscape
requirement.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that he felt the side yard setback should remain at
5-feet and only be increased to 15-feet if the project was a new home or a complete
tear-down / rebuild.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee if the side yard setback criteria should be
left at 5-feet.
The Committee agreed that the side yard setback should remain at 5-feet.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that if the Committee wants to encourage rear yard
garages that perhaps incentives can be offered, such as reduced setbacks for the
garage and/or a reduced minimum driveway width, 8-feet rather than 10-feet, and
eliminate the 18-inch landscape requirement. He stated that if the Committee desires to
increase the landscape area perhaps encouraging “Hollywood” style driveways.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern that an 8-foot driveway is too narrow
and tight for the type of cars being driven today. He would support a 9-foot wide
driveway.
Committee Member Dyda stated that to encourage on-site parking to the rear of a
property if you have a narrow driveway between the house and the property line fence
people will less likely park their cars in that location.
Councilman Long noted that the big cars will never park in the back but will rather be
parked in the front.
Committee Member Dyda stated that he researched car sizes on the web and found
that the largest vehicles on the market today are approximately 67 inches wide. He
added that this is not a requirement but an option to make a remodel less burdensome.
Commissioner Perestam believes that the minimum driveway width should be 9-feet.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that 9-feet is consistent with compact parking standards
for other jurisdictions.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee if the preference for the width of a driveway
is 8-feet or 9-feet.
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Committee Member Dyda would package the proposal as a 9-foot driveway width,
eliminate the 18-inch landscape requirement, provide a “Hollywood” style driveway and
a turning radius or hammerhead. This criteria would only apply to rear garages.
Commissioner Gerstner indicated that he does not want to see the term “detached”
associated with garages located in the rear because that would prevent a garage from
being attached to a main residence.
Councilman Long asked if there should be a lot coverage allowance to account for the
additional impervious surface leading to the rear garage.
Commissioner Gerstner estimated the amount of lot coverage permitted for the RS-5
zoning district by accounting for the house footprint, turning radius, driveway and rear
yard garage.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the additional coverage may be used for actual
structural improvements rather than for the driveway.
Committee Member Dyda agreed stating that the use of a “Hollywood” style driveway
would help off-set the additional lot coverage and provide landscape space.
The Committee agreed not to provide a lot coverage allowance for rear yard garages.
Councilman Wolowicz indicated that there were no public comments relating to front
entry porches. He added that the lot coverage criteria is consistent with the RS-5
zoning district throughout the City.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that Staff will need to verify with the City Attorney
whether the landscaped parkway requirement can apply for projects involving
neighborhood compatibility.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested the Committee consider expanding the threshold for
tear-down / rebuild projects that need to provide a two-car garage by including a square
footage calculation in addition to a percentage.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that at the workshop concerns were raised by the
public that the threshold should remain at 50% in order to get parked cars off the street.
Committee Member Dyda suggested that if a house is of a certain square footage that a
two-car garage be maintained.
Committee Member Cartwright would like to see the threshold criteria remain at 50%.
Committee Member Slayden agreed.
IS-62
February 27, 2006
Page 6 of 10
Committee Member Lyon noted that increasing the threshold to 75% would be less
restrictive which is in line with the intent of the overlay district.
Committee Member Dyda stated that if the threshold remained at 50% and the rear
garage criteria is established you are essentially provided an opportunity to expand the
existing house and provide a 2-car garage without having to convert livable floor area to
garage area.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Committee would like to keep the threshold at 50%.
The Committee agreed to keep the threshold at 50%.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on the comments at the workshop the
criteria for fences, walls, and hedges will remain at 42-inches within the front yard area
and the language referring to 80% open to light and air will be deleted.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is a color requirement for fencing and walls.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that there is no Code requirement for fence and wall
color.
Commissioner Perestam wanted a confirmation that the landscaped parkway
requirement would apply Citywide if neighborhood compatibility is triggered.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the parkway and the sidewalk in most cases
belongs to the City and there is occasionally a misunderstanding as to what can or
cannot be done within this area. He stated that an encroachment permit is required for
any improvements within this area.
Councilman Wolowicz indicated that he would like to dispel any misunderstandings.
Councilman Long would like to see cases where utility companies come in and tear out
the concrete from the parkway not repair the condition back to concrete but rather
restore it with landscaping.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the threshold for requiring the landscaped
parkway was based on neighborhood compatibility because the Committee felt the
scope of the project would be large enough to justify such an improvement.
Committee Member Cartwright requested that this criteria apply Citywide.
Committee Member Dyda stated this criteria was discussed some time ago and agreed
that it would apply Citywide in addition to the overlay district. He added that the criteria
is listed in the overlay district to emphasis its importance to enhance the open space
character of the area.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a motion.
IS-63
February 27, 2006
Page 7 of 10
Committee Member Dyda moved to make the landscaped parkway requirement
apply Citywide with further direction from the City Attorney.
Committee Member Cartwright seconded the motion.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that the agenda item of the Committee Status
Summary Table should be continued to the next meeting so that the Committee can
discuss the next agenda item. He stated that the next meeting will be dedicated solely
to the Summary Status Table.
Committee Member Mueller requested that the Committee reconsider its decision to
change the side yard setback requirement because of the potential hardship it may
cause property owners.
Councilman Long introduced the next agenda item on square footage limitations for
residential structures and asked the Committee whether the tools in place that help
control density are sufficient. He asked the Committee whether other options should be
considered based on other jurisdictions as means of limiting density. He added that
there are limitations in place that control density such as lot coverage and setbacks. He
said that relying on neighborhood compatibility will result in a temporal limitation on
density over time because as you evaluate the 20 closest homes ultimately what is
compatible will grow in size and the line will continue to grow further away. He noted
that although the City at one time had a structure size limitation that failed, that does not
preclude a different criteria from being considered rather than assuming square footage
limitations are bad. He referred to the chart prepared by Staff that summarizes various
structure size limitations for other jurisdictions.
Committee Member Cartwright indicated that a structure size limitation is not the most
effective way to regulate mansionization and that the neighborhood compatibility
requirement is an effective tool that is in place today because it looks at design rather
than focusing on structure size.
Committee Member Dyda stated that it is easy to circumvent structure size limitations
referring to the examples listed in the chart.
Committee Member Lyon stated that Councilman Long’s concerns are valid, but there is
not a problem today. He said that the tools in place today are adequate and that
perhaps in 20 to 30 years from now there may be a problem that should be addressed
at that time because standards will be different. He recommends not making any
changes at this time.
Commissioner Perestam agrees with Councilman Long that the tools in place are
temporal and will get to the same place as other jurisdictions but at a slower pace.
IS-64
Chairman Perestam asked staff if there are any other ties that would prevent approving
the Overlay District if the City did not change the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the overlay by its nature is creating specialized
standards that aren’t addressed in the standards for the tract.
Vice Chairman Lewis moved to reject the recommendation of the committee
regarding the proposed zone change from RS-4 to RS-5 (alternative No. 2),
seconded by Commissioner Knight.
Commissioner Ruttenberg understood that the committee had participation from the
community when making these recommendations, and asked if the community was
generally in favor of this proposed change.
Chairman Perestam answered that the community was generally in favor of the
proposed changed, however he felt that if the overlay district assured a fifty two percent
lot coverage, this would accommodate the community’s concern.
Commissioner Tetreault expressed his concern that the zone change would allow some
of the lots to be subdivided.
Associate Planner Fox stated that staff can report back to the Planning Commission as
to how many lots in Eastview are over 16,000 square feet and therefore could
potentially be subdivided if the zoning changed.
Vice Chairman Lewis withdrew his motion.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the discussion regarding changing
the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5 to a future meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Ruttenberg
dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic is the committee’s suggestion of a
proposed overlay control district, noting in the staff report the suggested regulations that
would apply in the overlay control district.
Chairman Perestam added that the recommendations by the Committee were made
after extensive neighborhood input from the residents.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt alternative No. 1 of the staff report, with
the modification that the lot coverage be changed to fifty two percent lot
coverage, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained the next item, which was to strike language regarding
courtyard area lot coverage, and noted in the staff report the language being discussed.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 12 IS-65
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Residential Development Standards code amendment and zone change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining the remaining issues to
discuss are tandem parking spaces in garages and considering allowing tandem
parking in the Mira Vista Overlay District. He explained that the Committee had
recommended permitting tandem parking spaces, however staff recommended
permitting tandem parking spaces only for enclosed off-street parking spaces in excess
of the minimum code requirements. He also explained that in regards to the Mira Vista
Overlay District, staff agrees that the unique circumstances of the Mira Vista area
makes it the one area of the City where tandem parking should be allowed to satisfy the
minimum off-street parking requirements, thereby allowing property owners to provide
additional off-street parking without having to demolish a significant portion of their
existing residences. Staff is also suggesting allowing the construction of new detached
garages to encroach into the 15-foot rear setback as another means to increase off-
street parking in the neighborhood.
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked if the City currently specifically prohibits tandem parking
for non-required spaces.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the City does not currently prohibit tandem
parking. However, he noted that there was an interpretation procedure in 2002 where
the Director made an interpretation that tandem parking was only allowed for surplus
parking spaces.
Commissioner Perestam moved to adopt staff’s revised recommendation
regarding tandem parking, seconded by Vice Chairman Gerstner. The motion
was approved without objection.
Commissioner Knight referred to page 12 of the staff report, item No. 8, which
discusses driveways adjacent to the property line and the need for a minimum 18 inch
landscape area between the property line and adjacent driveway. He discussed
properties in the city where it would not be possible to conform to this code and asked
staff how those would be handled.
Associate Planner Fox explained that in those cases they could be considered legal
non-conforming, or if they want to do improvements they could apply for a Variance or a
Minor Exception Permit.
Associate Planner Fox continued to the recommendations from the Committee in terms
of fences, walls, and hedges. He explained the three recommendations made by the
Committee as outlined in the staff report. He explained that staff is recommending
modifying a committee recommendation to allow for 6-foot tall fences, walls, and
hedges at the street side property line of corner lots rather than at the setback line.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 10 IS-66
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
COURTYARD AREA LOT COVERAGE
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Courtyard Area Lot Coverage
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Exclude courtyard areas from the calculation of lot
coverage/open space
DISCUSSION In 2000, the definition of “lot coverage” in Section
17.02.040(A)(5) was amended to include uncovered courtyard
areas as a part of the building footprint for the purpose of
calculating lot coverage. The original intent of this change
was to encourage the articulation of building facades, but in
practice Staff found that it generally had the opposite or no
effect. The RDSSC agreed that the inclusion of courtyard
areas as lot coverage was overly burdensome and difficult to
accurately calculate.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS RDSSC Minutes of July 25, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCE Section 9 of Draft Ordinance
IS-67
July 25, 2005
Page 8 of 11
Councilman Long suggested further modifying the sentence by deleting “street” so that
it is not limited to street facades.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested deleting “of this street facade.”
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the amendments made to this section
by Commissioner Gerstner seconded by Councilman Long.
The motion passed unanimously.
Senior Planner Mihranian reminded the Committee that the changes to the
Neighborhood Compatibility Handbook, as it relates to articulation, would be presented
to the City Council for consideration.
Councilman Long introduced the next agenda item on the definition of Lot Coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian provided the Committee with a brief power point presentation
on lot coverage and its current definition. He discussed the various criteria per zoning
district. He mentioned that as it stands, Staff believes the definition of lot coverage is
adequate with the exception of the requirement regarding courtyards. He explained that
this requirement has proven to be overly burdensome to property owners and equally
difficult for Staff to calculate. Staff recommends that this part of the definition be
eliminated.
Commissioner Gerstner emphasized the hardship with having this requirement as part
of the lot coverage definition and cited an example of a u-shaped home.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt Staff’s recommendation to delete the
interior courtyards from the lot coverage definition, seconded by Committee
Member Slayden.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for further clarification regarding the definition of lot
coverage as it relates to walkways.
Committee Member Dyda explained that as written walkways do not constitute lot
coverage but areas that can accommodate the parking of vehicles is considered lot
coverage. He added that the Code also regulates how much coverage and hardscape
can be permitted within the required front yard.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that if you calculate the actual coverage of a lot versus the
lot coverage as defined by the Code there is a significant difference in the end product
in terms of the percentage of coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the City’s definition of lot coverage is not based
on impervious surfaces.
IS-68
Chairman Perestam asked staff if there are any other ties that would prevent approving
the Overlay District if the City did not change the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the overlay by its nature is creating specialized
standards that aren’t addressed in the standards for the tract.
Vice Chairman Lewis moved to reject the recommendation of the committee
regarding the proposed zone change from RS-4 to RS-5 (alternative No. 2),
seconded by Commissioner Knight.
Commissioner Ruttenberg understood that the committee had participation from the
community when making these recommendations, and asked if the community was
generally in favor of this proposed change.
Chairman Perestam answered that the community was generally in favor of the
proposed changed, however he felt that if the overlay district assured a fifty two percent
lot coverage, this would accommodate the community’s concern.
Commissioner Tetreault expressed his concern that the zone change would allow some
of the lots to be subdivided.
Associate Planner Fox stated that staff can report back to the Planning Commission as
to how many lots in Eastview are over 16,000 square feet and therefore could
potentially be subdivided if the zoning changed.
Vice Chairman Lewis withdrew his motion.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue the discussion regarding changing
the zoning in the area from RS-4 to RS-5 to a future meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner Ruttenberg
dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic is the committee’s suggestion of a
proposed overlay control district, noting in the staff report the suggested regulations that
would apply in the overlay control district.
Chairman Perestam added that the recommendations by the Committee were made
after extensive neighborhood input from the residents.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt alternative No. 1 of the staff report, with
the modification that the lot coverage be changed to fifty two percent lot
coverage, seconded by Vice Chairman Lewis. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained the next item, which was to strike language regarding
courtyard area lot coverage, and noted in the staff report the language being discussed.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 12 IS-69
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt alternative No. 1, seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis.
Commissioner Knight asked if this includes covered courtyards.
Associate Planner Fox clarified that this includes only courtyards that are open above to
the sky.
The motion to adopt alternative No. 1 regarding striking the language in the code
regarding courtyard area lot coverage was approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic was the discussion of private street
easements and how that relates to lot coverage, explaining that the committee
suggested revising the Development Code so that neighborhoods with private streets
would be treated the same as neighborhoods with public streets in terms of lot
coverage. He showed a diagram on how lot coverage is currently calculated on a
private street and how the committee has proposed to calculate lot coverage. He
explained that staff was recommending alternative No. 2 in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight stated that at the previous meeting he had some concerns,
however after doing some calculations he realized that this proposal will be
advantageous to the property owners living on private streets.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that he favors this recommendation, however he felt
that clarification was still needed on the differences between private streets and
driveways.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the definitions of private street and driveway were
included with the previous Planning Commission packet, but not with this current
package.
Commissioner Knight moved to support alternative No. 2 as presented in the staff
report, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained that the last item was not actually a recommendation
from the Steering Committee, but rather there was a discussion at the Committee level
about whether to exclude the pole portion of flag lots from calculation of lot coverage
and open space, and it was the determination of the Committee not to exclude this
portion and to continue to include the pole portion in the calculation. However, when
the City Council received the recommendations from the Committee, there was a
question raised by a City Council member and it was asked that the Planning
Commission revisit this topic.
Commissioner Ruttenberg felt that this recommendation is inconsistent with the decision
just made regarding private streets.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 13 IS-70
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
PRIVATE STREET EASEMENT LOT COVERAGE
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Private Street Easement Lot Coverage
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Exclude private street easements from the calculation of lot
coverage/open space
DISCUSSION The RDSSC wished to revise the Development Code so that
neighborhoods with private streets were treated the same as
neighborhoods with public streets in terms of lot coverage and
setbacks. Currently, private street easement areas are
included in the gross area of lots and improvements within
those easement areas are counted as lot coverage. The
RDSSC believes that this was unfair to property owners in
neighborhoods with private streets, and directed changes to
several Development Code sections. Of these recommended
changes, Staff believes that adding the RDSSC-recom-
mended change to Section 17.48.040 (Setbacks) could create
confusion by mixing the issues of lot coverage and setbacks in
a single Code section. As such, Staff recommends not
making this change, but instead making the RDSSC-recom-
mended change to Section 17.48.040 (Lot Coverage).
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as originally
proposed
2. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as amended by
Staff
3. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
4. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Code Amendments regarding private street
easement lot coverage
Diagram of “Typical” Public and Private Street Lot Conditions
RDSSC Minutes of August 29, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Sections 10 and 11 and Exhibit ‘C’ of Draft Ordinance
IS-71
Private Street Lot Coverage Code Amendments
(Additions underlined, deletions struck-out)
New Footnote 8 to Table 02-A
8 For purposes of calculating lot coverage, a private street easement shall not be
considered a part of the lot area and the improved area of a private street easement
shall not be counted as lot coverage.
Proposed Section 17.48.040 (Lot Coverage)
An open space area shall be provided on each lot with a residential structure. Open
space area shall not include any portion of a lot or building site which is within the
definition of lot coverage, as defined in Section 17.020.040(A). Lot coverage shall not
exceed the maximum area requirements established in the district development
standards (see Table 02-A in Chapter 17.02). For purposes of calculating lot coverage,
a private street easement shall not be considered a part of the lot area and the
improved area of a private street easement shall not be counted as lot coverage. In
multiple-family residential units, private outdoor decks and balconies with one minimum
horizontal dimension of seven feet which are designated for the exclusive use of the
occupants of an individual unit may comprise up to thirty percent of required open
space.
Proposed Section 17.96.2020 (“Street, private”)
“Private street” means any lot not dedicated as a public street over which a private
easement for road purposes has been recorded and used or intended to be used for
ingress to or egress from a lot or lots which may or may not have frontage on a public
street. For purposes of measuring setbacks and calculating lot coverage, a private
street easement shall not be considered a part of a lot. A private street does not mean
a “driveway.”
IS-72
Typical Public Street Lot
Property Line
Sidewalk
Curb
Street
Centerline
Edge of
Pavement
Private Street
Easement Line
Driveway
Property Line
Driveway
Typical Private Street Lot
IS-73
August 29, 2005
Page 2 of 13
The motion passed without objection.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Private Streets and asked for
a Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that at the last meeting, the Committee raised a
concern regarding the treatment of private streets as it relates to lot coverage. He
stated that the concern was that private streets are included in the lot coverage
calculation while setbacks are measured from the edge of the easement of a private
street. Although Staff stated that it is the City’s practice to include private streets as lot
coverage because the area is also included in the gross lot area calculation, the
Committee directed Staff to draft code language that would treat private streets similarly
to setbacks when it comes to calculating lot coverage. He stated that based on
Committee direction, Staff prepared draft language that excludes private streets from
the lot area and lot coverage calculations. He then presented the Committee with the
proposed amendments, starting with the Development Code definition of a private
street. He stated that the definition was modified to include a sentence that a private
street shall not be counted as part of a lot for purposes of measuring setbacks and
calculating lot coverage.
Councilman Long asked for the definition of a private street. He then provided an
example located in his neighborhood where there is a shared private driveway that
leads to four houses, and asked when does a driveway become a private street.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that an easement would specify whether it is a
private street or driveway.
Councilman Long asked whether for the purpose of this rule if a driveway or private
streets that is used to access the four lots in his earlier example should be considered
lot coverage.
Committee Member Dyda raised the question regarding shared access by an easement
and which property is accountable for the lot coverage calculation. He referred to the
City of Rolling Hills stating that all the streets are private and used by its residents, but
individual property owners own the area in front of their home.
Councilman Wolowicz referred to the definition of a private street that states that a
private street does not constitute lot coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained the definition and cited examples between a
driveway and a private street. He stated that based on the current definition, a driveway
counts towards lot coverage and it is at the Committee’s pleasure whether they want to
recommend to the City Council that a private street count or not count as lot coverage.
IS-74
August 29, 2005
Page 3 of 13
Committee Member Cartwright explained that his home is part of a tract that maintains a
private street, but that the private street is a part of the common open space area. He
said that differs to other areas where the private street easement is a part of each lot
abutting the street.
Committee Member Karp explained that in her neighborhood there are flag lots that
share a common driveway to the public street.
Committee Member Dyda raised a concern regarding flag lots and the lot coverage
requirement as it pertains to driveways. He is concerned that the lots that grant an
easement to another lot for access purposes should not be penalized when it comes to
lot coverage. He stated that the entire driveway should not be counted as lot coverage
for a property owner who grants an access easement to another lot.
Councilman Long asked what is the definition of a driveway.
Senior Planner Mihranian read the Code Definition, stating that a driveway is paved
access to off street parking facility on a lot or parcel and any paved circular or semi-
circular return to a public or private street servicing the property. Any pervious or semi-
pervious surface which is part of, or within, the paved access area shall be considered
driveway.
Committee Member Dyda mentioned that in the City of Rolling Hills the property lines go
to the centerline of the private street and each property grants an access easement.
Committee Member Denton sought clarification on the two types of private streets being
discussed this evening.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that in Mr. Cartwright’s case, the private street in
his neighborhood is its own lot, while in the Miraleste neighborhood, such as
Rockinghorse, the private street is a part of each lot with an access easement. He
stated that typically the front property line starts at the centerline of the street. He
stated that in Mr. Cartwright’s case, because the private street is its own lot it does not
get counted towards lot coverage for the individual property owners because it is not
part of their lot area, whereas the other scenario includes the improved area of the
private street as lot coverage because the private street is counted as lot area.
Councilman Long raised a concern that by excluding private streets from the lot
coverage calculation we could unintentionally exclude things that should be counted as
lot coverage, that is why he requested the definition of a driveway. In other words
would something defined as a driveway actually be considered a private street but
would now not be counted as lot coverage because of the suggested change.
IS-75
August 29, 2005
Page 4 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Code’s definition of a driveway removes any
ambiguity concerns.
Councilman Long agreed.
Committee Member Dyda believes the definition to be fine, but he has a concern
regarding driveways as it relates to lot coverage for flag lots. He thinks that some
property owners are being penalized for the benefit of other property owners.
Committee Member Slayden raised a question regarding the suggested footnote to
Table 2-A and its lack of reference to setbacks.
Senior Planner Mihranian passed out Table 2-A which was inadvertently left out of the
agenda packet and explained that the footnote in question refers solely to lot coverage.
Councilman Long summarized the two issues being discussed. First, that a private
street should be treated similarly to public streets when calculating lot coverage; and
secondly, how driveways should be calculated for lot coverage when serving flag lots.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if a separate definition or code requirement should be
considered for flag lots as it relates to lot coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian raised a concern that flag lots come in different sizes and
shapes. He referred to an example where a driveway serves three lots off a public
street but each lot has its respective share of the driveway pole. He stated that in this
scenario a property owner would only have to calculate the lot coverage on their portion
of the driveway pole.
Councilman Long believes that if a lot is not adjacent to the street and is an unusual
large distance from the street to the lot that the property owner is being penalized for
having to calculate the pole as part of lot coverage. He said that in this case, the lot is
not the same as other lots and should be given some compensation or else this lot
would be treated unfairly.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if was the Committee’s pleasure to direct Staff to evaluate
this matter and come back with a suggested solution that does not penalize a property
owner.
The Committee unanimously agreed.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that this item would be brought back for the
Committee’s consideration at the next meeting.
IS-76
August 29, 2005
Page 5 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Committee had any comments regarding the
suggested amendments to the Development Code definition of a private street.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended changes to the
Development Code definition of a private street. The motion was seconded by
Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Committee Member Cartwright asked whether setbacks were treated similarly.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that setbacks are measured from the edge of a
private street easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the definition for a private street, as amended to not be
considered a part of a lot when calculating lot coverage, be added to the definition of
setbacks for consistence purposes.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the current definition for setbacks,
setbacks are currently measured from the edge of the private street easement.
Councilman Long stated that as much as possible a private street should be treated
similarly to a public street. He added that setbacks should be measured from the street
easement line for private streets.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that setbacks are taken from the
property line and in some cases the front property line is at the edge of the street or the
edge of the sidewalk. He said that each tract is different.
Councilman Long moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendments to the
definitions relating to private streets and lot coverage. The motion was seconded
by Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Parking and Driveway
Standards. He asked for a brief staff report.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that this item is before the Committee as a result of
concerns raised by the Eastview Sub-Committee regarding the City’s parking standards.
He explained that for clarification purposes, Staff is recommending that the
requirements clearly state that a two-car garage and two-car driveway shall be
maintained for a house less than 5,000 square feet of habitable area and that a three-
car garage and a three car driveway shall be maintained for a house that is greater than
5,000 square feet in area. He added that as part of the Sub-committee’s review of the
Eastview area, a concern was raised regarding the parking stall dimensions stating that
IS-77
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt alternative No. 1, seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis.
Commissioner Knight asked if this includes covered courtyards.
Associate Planner Fox clarified that this includes only courtyards that are open above to
the sky.
The motion to adopt alternative No. 1 regarding striking the language in the code
regarding courtyard area lot coverage was approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic was the discussion of private street
easements and how that relates to lot coverage, explaining that the committee
suggested revising the Development Code so that neighborhoods with private streets
would be treated the same as neighborhoods with public streets in terms of lot
coverage. He showed a diagram on how lot coverage is currently calculated on a
private street and how the committee has proposed to calculate lot coverage. He
explained that staff was recommending alternative No. 2 in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight stated that at the previous meeting he had some concerns,
however after doing some calculations he realized that this proposal will be
advantageous to the property owners living on private streets.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that he favors this recommendation, however he felt
that clarification was still needed on the differences between private streets and
driveways.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the definitions of private street and driveway were
included with the previous Planning Commission packet, but not with this current
package.
Commissioner Knight moved to support alternative No. 2 as presented in the staff
report, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained that the last item was not actually a recommendation
from the Steering Committee, but rather there was a discussion at the Committee level
about whether to exclude the pole portion of flag lots from calculation of lot coverage
and open space, and it was the determination of the Committee not to exclude this
portion and to continue to include the pole portion in the calculation. However, when
the City Council received the recommendations from the Committee, there was a
question raised by a City Council member and it was asked that the Planning
Commission revisit this topic.
Commissioner Ruttenberg felt that this recommendation is inconsistent with the decision
just made regarding private streets.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 13 IS-78
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
FLAG-LOT LOT COVERAGE
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Flag-Lot Lot Coverage
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Continue to include the “pole” portion of flag lots in the
calculation of lot coverage/open space
DISCUSSION On September 26, 2005, the RDSSC had extensive
discussion of the treatment of the “pole” portion of flag lots vis-
à-vis lot coverage and open space. Based upon Staff
analysis, three (3) alternatives were presented to the RDSSC:
• Amend the lot coverage standards so that the improved
driveway area of a “pole” serving a flag lot that
traverses property not benefiting from the driveway
would not be counted as lot coverage;
• Amend the lot coverage standards so that the improved
driveway area of a flag “pole” is not counted as lot
coverage. It should be noted that if the driveway area
is not counted as lot coverage, but is still counted
towards the gross lot area, then the net result most
likely will be additional lot coverage in the form of
structure area; and,
• Do not change the definition of lot coverage, and if a
hardship exists advise a property owner to apply for a
variance. The variance process was established to
address hardships caused by unique constraints upon
lots that cannot be developed similar to other
properties.
The RDSSC decided not to exclude the “pole” and
improvements therein for the purposes of calculating lot
coverage and open space. However, then-Councilman
Gardiner asked the Planning Commission to reconsider this
matter in August 2006. Councilman Gardiner believed that
not excluding the “pole” portion of flag lots from lot coverage
was inconsistent with the RDSSC recommendation to exclude
private street easements from lot coverage.
Based upon their current definitions in the Development Code,
“driveway” and “private street” are mutually exclusive
concepts. As such, Staff believes that it could be reasonably
argued that the “pole” portion of a flag lot is equivalent to a
private street if there is an easement recorded over it for
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ingress/egress to other lots. In this circumstance, Staff
recommends that it is appropriate to exclude the easement
area and the hardscape within it for the purpose of calculating
lot coverage. However, if the “pole” is not encumbered by a
reciprocal access easement and serves as the driveway
access for a single flag lot, Staff recommends that it should be
included in the calculation of lot coverage.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Accept the Staff recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the recommendations
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Section 17.48.040 regarding Flag Lots
Definitions of “Driveway and “Private Street”
Diagram of Flag Lots with and without Easements
RDSSC Minutes of September 26, 2005 (excerpt)
CC Minutes of August 1, 2006 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of April 8, 2008 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of May 13, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 10 of Draft Ordinance
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Proposed Section 17.48.040 (Lot Coverage)
(Language originally proposed on April 8, 2008 underlined, revised language proposed
on May 13, 2008 bold and underlined and struck out)
An open space area shall be provided on each lot with a residential structure. Open
space area shall not include any portion of a lot or building site which is within the
definition of lot coverage, as defined in Section 17.020.040(A). Lot coverage shall not
exceed the maximum area requirements established in the district development
standards (see Table 02-A in Chapter 17.02). For purposes of calculating lot coverage,
a private street easement area shall not be considered a part of the lot area and the
improved area of a private street easement shall not be counted as lot coverage.
For flag lots, the “pole” portion of any flag lot that is encumbered by a reciprocal
access easement benefiting another property shall not be considered a part of
the lot area. In no case shall any hardscape or other improvements within a
private street easement or a flag-lot “pole” that is encumbered by a reciprocal
access easement be counted as lot coverage. In multiple-family residential units,
private outdoor decks and balconies with one minimum horizontal dimension of seven
feet which are designated for the exclusive use of the occupants of an individual unit
may comprise up to thirty percent of required open space.
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17.96.600 Driveway.
“Driveway” means a paved access to an off-street parking facility on a lot or parcel and
any paved circular or semi-circular return to a public or private street servicing the
property. Any pervious or semi-pervious surface which is part of or within the paved
access area shall be considered “driveway.”
17.96.2020 Street, private.
“Private street” means any lot not dedicated as a public street over which a private
easement for road purposes has been recorded and used or intended to be used for
ingress to or egress from a lot or lots which may or may not have frontage on a public
street. A private street does not mean a “driveway.”
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Property
Line
Flag Lots Without Reciprocal Access Easement
Easement
Line
Property
Line
Flag Lots With Reciprocal Access Easement
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September 26, 2005
Page 2 of 12
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Flag Lots as it relates to Lot
Coverage and asked for a Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced this agenda topic by providing the Committee with
some background information, stating that at the last meeting, the Committee discussed
private streets in relation to lot coverage. As a result of that meeting, a concern was
raised regarding flag lots and lot coverage. Specifically, the concern was that counting
the pole portion of a flag lot towards lot coverage may be considered unfair to property
owners who provide such an easement to other property owners and too restrictive to
property owners whose lots are located an unusual distance from the street. The
Committee directed Staff to bring back information responding to the Committee’s
concerns. Using a power point presentation, Mr. Mihranian provided the Committee
with various examples of flag lot driveway easements. He stated that although the
improved driveway portion of a flag lot is counted as lot coverage, since this area is also
counted as part of the gross lot area, it is Staff’s opinion that the outcome is an even
wash. He said that if the Committee believes that counting the improved driveway
portion of a flag lot as overly restrictive, there are three options for consideration by the
Committee:
1. Amend the lot coverage standards so that the improved driveway area of a pole
serving a flag lot that traverses property not benefiting from the driveway not be
counted as lot coverage;
2. Amend the lot coverage standards so that the improved driveway area of a flag
pole is not counted as lot coverage. It should be noted that if the driveway area
is not counted as lot coverage, but is still counted towards the gross lot area,
then the net result most likely will be additional lot coverage in the form of
structure area; and,
3. Do not change the definition and if a hardship exists advise a property owner to
apply for a variance. The variance process was established to address
hardships caused by unique constraints to lots that cannot be developed similarly
to other properties.
He concluded his presentation by seeking the Committee’s direction on this matter.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for clarification on lot coverage standards as it relates to
private streets.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the Committee at its last meeting agreed to
recommend to the Council that the Development Code be amended so that private
streets are not counted towards lot coverage, gross lot area and setback
measurements. He indicated that for private streets, setbacks are measured from the
edge of the easement line.
Commissioner Mueller asked how setbacks are measured for flag lots.
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September 26, 2005
Page 3 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated a property owner would not be permitted to build
within the driveway easement but could build up to the edge of the easement line if they
comply with the defined setbacks.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that in many cases driveway easements do not exist as
part of a flag lot because the pole portion serves as the driveway.
Committee Member Dyda was under the impression that the pole portion of a flag lot
was to provide access to the street.
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed, but added that in some cases a pole portion of a flag
lot may only be a few feet wide and in order to provide an adequate driveway width a
driveway easement would be provided. He referred to an example where there a
multiple flag lots that stack up behind one another where the pole ends up being a total
of 30-feet wide and each property owner grants the other property owners a driveway
easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked where one can expect to find such an example within the
City and whether this is a common scenario.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that this example is fairly common and could be
found along Via Campesina and Miraleste, among other neighborhoods.
Commissioner Gerstner asked whether the Code makes the distinction between a
private street that serves more than one lot and a flag lot that has driveway that only
serves the property in question.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the Code does not make that distinction and
relies on what is spelled out in the legal document for the easement.
Committee Member Dyda stated that Staff’s scenario of multiple poles adding up to a
30-foot driveway easement in essence serves the same purpose as a private street.
Committee Member Denton asked Staff what would be considered the front property
line for a flag lot.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that it is the property line most parallel to the street
of access.
Councilman Wolowicz referred to Staff’s options on circle page 14 of the agenda packet
and asked the Committee for comments in the context of lot coverage and driveway
easements for flag lots.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff Option No. 3 where there is no
change to the definition and that if a hardship exists a property owner is advised
to apply for a Variance.
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September 26, 2005
Page 4 of 12
Committee Member Karp seconded the motion.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if the definition of lot coverage needs to be amended
to reflect this agenda matter.
Senior Planner Mihranian informed the Committee that the lot coverage definition does
not warrant changing. He reminded the Committee that based on the current definition,
a driveway is calculated as lot coverage, and in the case of a flag lot, the improved
driveway portion of a pole is counted as lot coverage for the respective property owner
but Staff considers that a wash because the pole is also counted towards the lot area.
Commissioner Gerstner asked how the decision is made for a private driveway on a flag
lot versus a private street.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that Staff relies on the legal description.
Committee Member Dyda noted that this may result in an inconsistency because if a
driveway easement is 30-feet wide just because the legal description describes the
easement as a private driveway it is in reality being used as a private street.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that just because multiple flag lots result in a 30-foot
wide private driveway easement, it does not necessarily mean that all 30 feet is
improved with a paved driveway.
Councilman Wolowicz added that it usually is not necessary to have a 30-foot wide
driveway. He then asked Staff if this matter is a problem at the Planning Department.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the Planning Department has not experienced
a problem with private driveway easements and flag lots as it relates to lot coverage
and setbacks. He added that the typical inquiry relates to the property line
determination, such as what is the front property line.
Commissioner Gerstner referred to an illustration he drew and asked what would be
considered a private street and a private driveway.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that it is based on the legal description of the
easement. He added that the Development Code does not define a private driveway or
private street by the number of lots it serves.
Committee Member Dyda suggested that the definition be expanded for purposes of
setbacks, so that easements that provide access to multiple properties shall be treated
as a street.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked the Committee where the setback measurement
should be taken from in cases of flag lot poles.
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September 26, 2005
Page 5 of 12
Commissioner Muller stated that if the driveway pole of a flag lot is treated as a street
then that would require a greater setback distance.
Councilman Wolowicz reminded the Committee that according to Staff this is not an
issue and was wondering if the definition needs to be amended as suggested by
Committee Member Dyda.
Committee Member Dyda does not want to change to definition but rather expand the
requirement under the setback discussion.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that a property owner can simply change the legal
description of a driveway to a private street by going to the Los Angeles County
Recorder’s Office.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it is not that simple to change a legal description
when it serves other properties, adding that the property owner being served by such an
easement would have to agree to such a change. He stated that an easement is an
agreement between two or more parties. He added that if you change the description of
an easement, all parties involved would have to agree to such a change.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the change is based on the type of use, not
eliminating the easement. He stated that for purposes of consistency it would be better
to treat the driveway as an easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff whether one can build within an easement.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that a property owner cannot build within a private
street or driveway easement, but could build within a utility easement provided
authorization is given by the easement holder. He referred to an example at the Golden
Cove Shopping Center where the three new buildings are built over a sewer easement
and that was permitted because the county sanitation district gave the developer
permission.
Committee Member Slayden reiterated his earlier motion to accept Staff Option
No. 3 not to change the definition of lot coverage as it relates to the driveway pole
of a flag lot.
Commissioner Mueller proposed an amendment to the motion to amend the definition
so that it is clear that setbacks are measured from outside the easement.
Committee Member Dyda noted that the amendment to the motion is not germane to
the topic being discussed, but rather is a separate agenda topic.
Committee Member Lyon asked Staff if the existing policy regarding lot coverage and
driveways has been a problem in the past.
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September 26, 2005
Page 6 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that this issue is not a problem that is seen at the
Planning Department.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a second to the amendment to the motion. Hearing to
no second, he asked for a vote on the original motion made by Committee Member
Slayden and seconded by Committee Member Karp.
The motion passed with Commissioner Gerstner objecting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if the amendment to the earlier motion made by
Commissioner Mueller warranted further discussion as a separate agenda topic.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that was not necessary because the Code already
requires setbacks be measured from the edge of the easement line.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there were any other comments regarding the
amendment to the motion. He then introduced the next agenda topic of Fences, Walls
and Hedges and asked for a Staff presentation.
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next agenda topic by providing the Committee
with background information. He stated that at the last Committee Meeting, Staff raised
a concern regarding the current Code requirement for fences, walls and hedges located
on corner lots. He mentioned that although Staff raised a concern, Staff stopped short
from identifying a suggested change. Therefore, the Committee directed Staff to bring
back a recommendation for consideration this evening. Furthermore, the Committee
asked Staff to bring back a definition of what a hedge is and is not, as well as provide
illustrative examples for each of the requirements. Based on Committee directive, he
presented the respective information using a power point presentation.
Mr. Mihranian stated that the Code’s setback requirements do not apply for fences,
walls and hedges as they have their own requirements. He stated that fences, walls or
hedges cannot exceed 42-inches in height from the front property line up to the closest
building façade to the front property line, and this requirement is similar to corner lots.
Committee Member Dyda asked what if the back yard of one’s property abuts the front
area of another property how tall can a fence be?
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that in this scenario the fence along the rear property
line can be up to 6-feet in height provided it is on that property. He added that as long
as there is no grade differential between the two properties, otherwise a Fence, Wall
and Hedge Permit may be required to assess whether a potential view impairment
would be caused by a 6-foot high fence.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with the line that establishes where a 42-inch
high fence, wall or hedge can go up to 6-feet in height within the front yard area, stating
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 9 of 16
which has essentially prevented this issue from being placed on the November ballot;
and noted that the Sheriff’s Department is therefore requesting this item be tabled.
Councilman Clark moved to table this item.
Councilman Stern asked if the approximate $500,000 given to the community under this
proposal can wisely be earmarked, noting there is limited gang activity in this area.
Sheriff Captain Jay Zuanich agreed that there is no gang problem in Rancho Palos
Verdes, but stated that there has to be a nexus between the use of that money and
gang activity; he stated that the money could be used for gang-related education; noted
that it can be used to stop gang graffiti which is taking place on the peninsula from
gangs living elsewhere; and mentioned that the Sheriffs do make arrests of gang
members who are visiting and commit crimes in this area.
Councilman Stern expressed his concern with the limitations on the package for
spending the $500,000, believing there is potential to not spend the money wisely; and
questioned if there is a way to broaden the breadth of those limitations for this
community.
Captain Zuanich stated that he will advise his superiors of that concern.
Councilman Clark asked if any more consideration has been given to establishing a
Sheriff’s substation in Rancho Palos Verdes.
Captain Zuanich stated that there has been no clearly defined discussion of that
proposal.
Councilman Stern seconded the motion to table this item. Without objection, Mayor
Wolowicz so ordered.
Residential Development Standards Steering Committee (RDSSC) Report on
Proposed Amendments to the City’s Residential Development Standards (Title 17
of the RPVMC) (1801 x 1203)
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report and the recommendation to 1)
Congratulate and thank the Residential Development Standards Steering Committee; 2)
Refer the Residential Development Standards Steering Committee Report to the
Planning Commission for review; and, 3) Direct staff and the Planning Commission to
reexamine the issues raised by Council regarding the Steering Committee’s
recommendations.
On behalf of the Council, Mayor Wolowicz thanked and commended Senior Planner
Mihranian for his impressive efforts in this process.
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 10 of 16
Councilman Gardiner stated that it is not clear to him how many properties will be
affected by the change in setbacks, the scale being impacted, or the practical
implication of an increase in setback and when it would matter.
City Attorney Lynch noted for Councilman Gardiner that if a permitted structure already
has encroached into a required setback, it would be considered a legal, nonconforming
structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that if at some point a property owner proposes an
addition/remodel to a structure that exceeds 50 percent of the original building, for
example, the Code requires that any nonconformity be brought to conformity with the
current Code, except in terms of nonconforming setbacks.
Councilman Gardiner questioned if limiting someone’s ability to use their property
through development standards would be considered a taking.
City Attorney Lynch explained that a property owner could allege a taking, but noted
that court cases say that if someone has a substantial use of their property, the fact that
they might not necessarily be able to completely develop another portion of it would not
be a taking; in other words, if they have a house, they are considered to have full use of
their lot and property, and would not be asked to dedicate their lot for some other
purpose.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
Mayor Wolowicz recessed the meeting at 9:02 PM and reconvened the meeting at 9:11
PM.
Councilman Gardiner stated that page 17 of the staff report indicates if one owns a
corner lot, they are allowed to have a 6-foot fence along the street side property line, but
that the proposed code would require the wall on that corner lot to be reduced to 42
inches in height; and he stated that he is not in support of that requirement because of
privacy issues. He expressed his belief that Council should send this item to the
Planning Commission for further refinement.
Mayor pro tem Long mentioned that the concept of square footage limitations tied to lot
size has been a tool increasingly employed by a number of cities to deal with
mansionization; he expressed his belief that the Committee rejected this issue too
quickly without further study or direction to staff to further study the possibility of
implementing such a limitation here; and stated that this is something that needs
multiple tools to better control increased density. He noted his desire to see the
Planning Commission study the concept of square footage limitations based on lot size,
on buildable area of a lot, or some formula that makes sense; to study it in a more
rigorous way than this Committee was able to do; and to provide Council with an
independent recommendation on that issue as well as look at what other cities have
done in this regard, why they’ve done it, and what the advantages/disadvantages are.
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August 1, 2006
Page 11 of 16
He asked that staff distribute to Council the full minutes and full report related to the
square footage limitation issue from the deliberations of the Committee, so that each
Council Member can make a decision; and if enough Council members agree, that
Council could ask the Planning Commission to look at this issue.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that staff will summarize that discussion and give the
background information to the Planning Commission.
Councilman Clark noted, echoed by Councilman Stern, his support to send the
Committee’s report to the Planning Commission for refinement, noting that the
Commission should take the appropriate amount of time to study the proposals.
Mayor pro tem Long stated it is incumbent upon Council to guide the Planning
Commission on which items need further study, believing that it would over burden the
Planning Commission if the majority of the Council does not have an issue with all 18
topics covered in the report.
Councilman Clark stated the Planning Commission should review the recommendations
in a comprehensive manner, noting that he does not want to provide direction that may
cloud the Planning Commission’s objective input.
Councilman Gardiner suggested that this matter be continued to the next City Council
meeting to allow each Council Member an opportunity to take a look at the list and
digest the information, and to then provide staff a list of issues each member feels
needs further attention. He stated that the Planning Commission should be given some
direction rather than an ambiguous charge.
Karl Price, Rancho Palos Verdes, requested and received from staff further definition on
the new single-family residence 50-percent expansion rule.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that the proposed criteria is taken from the criteria that
is current applied to the entire City; noting that if a property owner was to tear down an
existing structure, calculating 50 percent or more of the combined linear square footage
of all exterior and interior walls, it would be considered a new residence and would have
to comply with the new standards.
Mr. Price stated that the proposal for the Miravista Neighborhood is confusing and noted
his concern with how this may negatively impact on-street parking, noting that parking is
limited in his particular neighborhood; and noted his support to enhance properties, but
stated this deserves further analysis from different angles.
Ken Dyda, Rancho Palos Verdes, commended Senior Planner Mihranian’s dedication
and professionalism during the Committee’s effort. He stated that if one looks at the
existing code in terms of the percentage of the lot one is allowed to build on, the
percentage is always less than the property remaining after subtracting the side, front
and rear setbacks. He stated that the problem of creating an issue for a property owner
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August 1, 2006
Page 12 of 16
with rear or side setback is about location, not of size; and explained that the intent of
the Committee was to take a look at those things they thought would need to be
revisited from the original code without creating an undue hardship for the residents.
He stated that the overall square footage is a problem, but they’ve got a percentage of
lot coverage one is allowed; noting that the problem only would occur if one uses that
percentage on a 2-acre parcel, for example; that if a property owner used that same
percentage and complied with the current setbacks, they can build a huge structure on
such a lot; and that to some extent, Mayor pro tem Long’s concern needs to be looked
at for the larger properties. He stated the chart included in the staff report identified all
the issues.
Mayor pro tem Long pointed out that Mr. Dyda and Lois Karp dutifully attended all the
meetings and put in an enormous amount of time on this effort; and he expressed his
gratitude to everyone who participated in this effort.
Councilman Stern stated that this should go to the Planning Commission without a lot of
direction; and noted his desire to minimize unintended consequences/ results of these
potential changes.
Mayor Wolowicz noted his support to send this to the Planning Commission with a belief
that all items need to be addressed at once because each item impacts related issues.
Councilman Clark moved, seconded by Councilman Stern, to congratulate the
Committee on its tremendous work effort the past couple years; to send this to the
Planning Commission for its comprehensive summary review and ultimate input back to
City Council in the areas where recommendations are being requested, as well as
comments on other areas that did not have recommended changes to the Development
Code; request that staff and the Planning Commission look at the issue of size limitation
on residential structures on residential lots, taking into account prior lessons learned;
and to research how other communities have successfully tackled this issue.
Councilman Gardiner stated that he would be opposed to the motion because it has
only incorporated one Council Member’s comments and reservations in the instructions
for the Planning Commission and had not included his concerns.
Councilman Clark stated that was not his intent and amended his motion to also have
the specific comments made by any of the City Council this evening included in the
report to the Planning Commission by the Director of Planning and the lead staff
member as they embark upon this review.
Councilman Gardiner highlighted the following issues included in the staff report that he
would like the Planning Commission to address: page 16, not to recommend excluding
driveways for a flagged lot; page 17, Fences, Walls, Hedges, provide more detail on
why corner lots should not be permitted 6-foot fences instead of the proposed 42
inches, noting his support for 6-foot fences; page 19, the need for clarification on the
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August 1, 2006
Page 13 of 16
first item; and page 19, define “respect adjacent properties” and how to measure and
enforce it.
Mayor pro tem Long volunteered to review the summary and assist in polishing its
presentation.
Without objection to the motion, Mayor Wolowicz so ordered.
Councilman Clark departed the meeting at 10:07 P.M.
Moisture Remediation at Hesse Park (1201 x 1101)
The staff report of August 1, 2006 recommended City Council 1) Authorize staff to
conduct an informal bid process to complete the proposed Interior Moisture
Remediation Work Plan at Hesse Park for a total cost not to exceed $9,000; 2)
Authorize staff to conduct a formal bid process to complete the proposed Exterior
Moisture Remediation Work Plan at Hesse Park for a total cost not to exceed $50,000;
and 3) ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 2006-59, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF
RANCHO PALOS VERDES AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 2006-41, THE BUDGET
APPROPRIATION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2006-07, FOR A BUDGET ADJUSTMENT TO
THE BUILDING REPLACEMENT FUND.
Councilman Gardiner moved, seconded by Mayor pro tem Long, to waive staff report
and to approve staff recommendation. Motion carried as follows:
AYES: Gardiner, Long, Stern and Mayor Wolowicz
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Clark
City Manager Recruitment (1101)
The staff report of August 1, 2006 recommended City Council: 1) Select Avery and
Associates to conduct the recruitment for a new City Manager; 2) Direct the City
Manager and City Attorney to prepare an appropriate professional services contract;
and 3) Direct staff to bring the contract back for Council approval.
Mayor Wolowicz advised the public that the City Council interviewed three executive
search firms for the recruitment of a new City Manager; noted that Council did not take
a vote following those interviews; and mentioned that the proposed fees of each firm
were in a similar range.
Councilman Stern mentioned that all three firms were very qualified.
Assistant City Manager/City Clerk Petru distributed the ballots.
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Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt alternative No. 1, seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis.
Commissioner Knight asked if this includes covered courtyards.
Associate Planner Fox clarified that this includes only courtyards that are open above to
the sky.
The motion to adopt alternative No. 1 regarding striking the language in the code
regarding courtyard area lot coverage was approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox stated that the next topic was the discussion of private street
easements and how that relates to lot coverage, explaining that the committee
suggested revising the Development Code so that neighborhoods with private streets
would be treated the same as neighborhoods with public streets in terms of lot
coverage. He showed a diagram on how lot coverage is currently calculated on a
private street and how the committee has proposed to calculate lot coverage. He
explained that staff was recommending alternative No. 2 in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight stated that at the previous meeting he had some concerns,
however after doing some calculations he realized that this proposal will be
advantageous to the property owners living on private streets.
Commissioner Ruttenberg stated that he favors this recommendation, however he felt
that clarification was still needed on the differences between private streets and
driveways.
Associate Planner Fox explained that the definitions of private street and driveway were
included with the previous Planning Commission packet, but not with this current
package.
Commissioner Knight moved to support alternative No. 2 as presented in the staff
report, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained that the last item was not actually a recommendation
from the Steering Committee, but rather there was a discussion at the Committee level
about whether to exclude the pole portion of flag lots from calculation of lot coverage
and open space, and it was the determination of the Committee not to exclude this
portion and to continue to include the pole portion in the calculation. However, when
the City Council received the recommendations from the Committee, there was a
question raised by a City Council member and it was asked that the Planning
Commission revisit this topic.
Commissioner Ruttenberg felt that this recommendation is inconsistent with the decision
just made regarding private streets.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 13 IS-94
Associate Planner Fox felt that it might be helpful for the Planning Commission to have
the definitions of private street and driveway, which were not included in the Planning
Commission packets for this meeting.
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they recalled in reason or rationale for Councilman
Gardner asking that the Planning Commission revisit this issue.
Associate Planner Fox and Director Rojas could not recall any specifics of the request,
and it was not reflected in the City Council minutes.
Vice Chairman Lewis moved to accept alternative No. 1 in the staff report,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
Commissioner Knight stated that he was uncomfortable with the motion, not knowing
what City Councilman Gardner’s concerns were.
Chairman Perestam was also reluctant to support the motion, as he needed more
clarification on the definitions of “driveway” and “private street”.
The motion failed, (3-4) with Commissioners Tomblin, Knight, Ruttenberg, and
Chairman Perestam dissenting.
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the discussion regarding the issue of
the pole portion of the flag lot to the May 13, 2008 meeting to allow staff the
opportunity to provide clarification to the Planning Commission, seconded by
Commissioner Gerstner. Approved, (5-2) with Commissioner Ruttenberg and
Vice Chairman Lewis dissenting.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to continue this item to the May 13, 2008 meeting,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner. Approved, (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS (cont)
6. Affordable Housing code amendment (Case No. ZON2008-00161)
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining the three components of the
proposed amendment, and explained that these changes are proposed to implement
City Council policy, to implement state law, and to incorporate minor changes to the
affordable housing requirements for non-residential projects.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2008-14, thereby
recommending that the City Council certify a Negative Declaration for the project;
and Adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2008-15 recommending that the City Council
approve a Code Amendment that revises Municipal Code Chapter 17.11,
"Affordable Housing", and Chapter 17.96, “Definitions”, seconded by Vice
Chairman Lewis. Approved, (7-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
April 8, 2008
Page 14 IS-95
Associate Planner Fox noted that because of the scope of changes, staff and the
applicant agree that June 10th may not give them enough time, especially if the Planning
Commission would like the project re-silhouetted. He therefore suggested that the
public hearing be continued to the June 24th meeting, or to a meeting from that date.
Commissioner Knight modified the motion to continue the public hearing to June
24, 2008, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (7-0).
2. Residential Development Standards code amendment & zone change
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, reporting on the additional research
staff had done in regards to subdivision potential under the suggested change in the
RS-4 zoning to the RS-5 zoning in the Eastview area.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to accept staff’s recommendations, seconded by
Commissioner Knight.
Chairman Perestam recalled from the last meeting that the Planning Commission had
discussed not approving the proposed zone change because the proposed overlay
district would give the flexibility they were looking for.
Associate Planner Fox recalled there was discussion about that at the previous
meeting, however he did not recall that being the consensus. He pointed out that the
overlay district would only give the flexibility in the actual areas covered by the overlay
and not the entire RS-4 zoning district.
The motion to accept staff’s recommendation for the RS-4 zoning district was
approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox explained that at the last meeting there was a question regarding
the flag lots and why Councilman Gardner had asked the Planning Commission to look
at the issue. He explained that staff had looked at the video of the City Council meeting
and also provided the definitions of “driveway” and “private street”, and explained staff’s
recommendation as written in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight was concerned about the use of the term “reciprocal easement”
as used in staff’s recommendation and didn’t feel it should be used in this circumstance.
Associate Planner Fox referred to page 12 of the staff report, which is the language staff
is recommending, and suggested striking the word “reciprocal” and simply say “an
access easement”.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approved staff’s recommendation (alternative
No. 2) with the deletion of the word “reciprocal”, seconded by Commissioner
Knight. Approved, (7-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 11 IS-96
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
MINIMUM DRIVEWAY AREA
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Minimum Driveway Area
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Establish minimum standards for both enclosed and
unenclosed off-street parking for single-family residences
DISCUSSION Based upon the Committee’s review of the current off-street
parking requirements, there was a concern that these
standards do not accurately reflect or accommodate the types
and sizes of vehicles driven by motorists today. In addition,
there was general acknowledgement that even when garages
are provided, homeowners frequently use them for general
household storage rather than off-street parking. Therefore,
the Committee recommended imposing a minimum
requirement for parking spaces within the driveway adjacent
to the required garage, equal in area to the size and number
of parking spaces in the garage. These Code changes would
occur in Sections 17.02.030(E)(1), (E)(2) and (E)(5).
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Proposed modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)
Diagram of Minimum Driveway Areas
RDSSC Minutes of August 29, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of May 13, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 12 of Draft Ordinance
IS-97
Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)
(Additions underlined, deletions struck out)
E. Parking/Driveway Standards.
1. A minimum of two enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of two unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing less than five thousand square feet of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
2. A minimum of three enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of three unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing five thousand square feet or more of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
3. A garage with a direct access driveway from the street of access shall not be
located less than twenty feet from the front or street-side property line, whichever
is the street of access.
4. In addition to the parking requirements for the primary single-family residence on
a property, parking for city-approved second units shall be provided in
accordance with Chapter 17.10 (Second Unit Development Standards).
5. An enclosed parking space shall have an unobstructed ground space of no less
than nine feet in width by twenty feet in depth, with a minimum of seven feet of
vertical clearance over the space. An unenclosed parking space shall have an
unobstructed ground space of no less than nine feet in width by twenty feet in
depth.
6. The following minimum driveway widths and turning radii shall be provided for all
driveways leading from the street of access to a garage or other parking area on
a residential parcel:
a. A driveway shall be a minimum width of ten feet; and
b. A paved twenty-five-foot turning radius shall be provided between the
garage or other parking area and the street of access for driveways which
have an average slope of ten percent or more, and which are fifty feet or
more in length.
7. Driveways shall take into account the driveway standards required by the
department of public works for driveway entrances located in the public right-of-
way.
8. A driveway that is located adjacent to a side property line shall provide a
minimum 18-inch-wide landscape area between the side property line and the
adjacent driveway, unless such buffer would reduce the minimum width of the
driveway to less than ten feet, in which case the width of the landscape buffer
may be narrowed or eliminated at the discretion of the Director.
98. All driveways shall be built and maintained in accordance with the specifications
of the Los Angeles County fire department. If there is any inconsistency between
the standards imposed by this chapter and the standards imposed by the Los
Angeles County fire department, the stricter shall apply.
IS-98
10. Enclosed tandem parking spaces may only be used for parking spaces in excess
of the minimum requirements of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, provided
that each space meets the minimum dimensions specified in subsection (5) of
this section.
IS-99
Driveway
Spaces
Garage
Spaces
Parking Requirement for SFR with <5,000 SF of Living Area
Driveway
Spaces
Garage
Spaces
Parking Requirement for SFR with >5,000 SF of Living Area
IS-100
August 29, 2005
Page 5 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Committee had any comments regarding the
suggested amendments to the Development Code definition of a private street.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended changes to the
Development Code definition of a private street. The motion was seconded by
Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Committee Member Cartwright asked whether setbacks were treated similarly.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that setbacks are measured from the edge of a
private street easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the definition for a private street, as amended to not be
considered a part of a lot when calculating lot coverage, be added to the definition of
setbacks for consistence purposes.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the current definition for setbacks,
setbacks are currently measured from the edge of the private street easement.
Councilman Long stated that as much as possible a private street should be treated
similarly to a public street. He added that setbacks should be measured from the street
easement line for private streets.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that setbacks are taken from the
property line and in some cases the front property line is at the edge of the street or the
edge of the sidewalk. He said that each tract is different.
Councilman Long moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendments to the
definitions relating to private streets and lot coverage. The motion was seconded
by Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Parking and Driveway
Standards. He asked for a brief staff report.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that this item is before the Committee as a result of
concerns raised by the Eastview Sub-Committee regarding the City’s parking standards.
He explained that for clarification purposes, Staff is recommending that the
requirements clearly state that a two-car garage and two-car driveway shall be
maintained for a house less than 5,000 square feet of habitable area and that a three-
car garage and a three car driveway shall be maintained for a house that is greater than
5,000 square feet in area. He added that as part of the Sub-committee’s review of the
Eastview area, a concern was raised regarding the parking stall dimensions stating that
IS-101
August 29, 2005
Page 6 of 13
the Sub-committee felt that based on the size of cars being driven today the dimensions
should be increased Citywide. He explained that the minimum width is proposed to be
increased from 9-feet to 10-feet and that the depth is proposed to remain at 20-feet. He
then explained how the Sub-committee suggested that a landscape area of 18-inches
be provided between the side property line and the edge of a driveway.
Mr. Mihranian informed the Committee that in regards to the parking stall dimensions,
the current 9’ x 20’ requirement applies for both commercial and residential zoned
properties. He stated that increasing the minimum width to 10-feet may result in non-
conformities and that the Committee should consider in its decision. He also stated that
if it is the Committee’s desire to increase the minimum width of a parking stall for
residential properties, that in its recommendation to the City Council, that the increased
dimension be considered for commercial zoned properties as well.
Councilman Long asked what triggers a non-conforming structure from having to
conform. He asked about homes destroyed by a natural disaster.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if 50% of the structure were being demolished
than it would have to be brought to conformity. He explained that a home destroyed by
a natural disaster is grand-fathered and could be rebuilt as is.
Councilman Long stated that the new requirements would only apply to a substantial
remodel or a new home.
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed. He added that the new homes being built today have
garages that are already much larger than the minimum dimensions and that the
proposed changes is to reflect the current trend.
Committee Member Dyda stated that for the proposed Eastview Overlay District a non-
conforming structure would have to be brought to conformity if 75% of the house were
being demolished.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that by increasing the parking dimension the result
may be more variance applications being processed requesting relief from the minimum
parking dimensions. He added that for the contemplated overlay district, the minimum
dimensions for a parking stall were set at 9’x20’.
Committee Member Denton asked how easy it is to have a variance granted.
Councilman Wolowicz mentioned that it was his understanding that variances are not
easily granted.
Committee Member Dyda commented on the proposed 18-inch landscape requirement
between a property line and the edge of the driveway. He stated that the intent is to
prevent having two driveways abut one another and to provide more green space within
the front yard.
IS-102
August 29, 2005
Page 7 of 13
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the 18-inch landscape requirement originated with
the Eastview Overlay District and only applies if the Neighborhood Compatibility
requirement is triggered.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the Portuguese Bend Club and
how that community does not comply with most of the City’s current development
standards and that variances are frequently sought after. He questioned what such a
change would do to that part of the City and why an overlay district has not been
contemplated similarly to Eastview.
Councilman Wolowicz questioned whether the Portuguese Bend Club had an overlay
district established already.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there is no overlay district for the Bend Club
and that there was a time when the City was coordinating with the HOA to develop an
overlay district but that was eventually shelved.
Councilman Wolowicz asked whether there should be an overlay or at least a study as
to whether one should or should not be established.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that there should be a study.
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that the HOA chose not to proceed with an overlay
district.
Committee Member Dyda emphasized that similar to any other neighborhood in the
City, the Bend Club should be subject to the City’s development standards unless
special standards are adopted for that community.
Councilman Long stated that if the rules that apply to the City are so different to the
reality on the ground so that anytime there is something done a variance is sought after
then the rules are being broken.
Committee Member Dyda stated that is the reason why an overlay district was
considered for Eastview.
Committee Member Cartwright moved that the Committee discuss at an
upcoming meeting whether an overlay district should be considered for the
Portuguese Bend Club. The motion was seconded by Councilman Long.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked whether Staff should contact the HOA to see if they are
interested in developing an Overlay District.
Committee Member Denton stated that the HOA should not dictate what the City feels is
best for the overall community.
IS-103
August 29, 2005
Page 8 of 13
Councilman Long added that the public hearing process provides the residents an
opportunity to share their opinions.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee to forward points of interest relating to the
Portuguese Bend Club to Staff. He then asked Staff to bring this item back as soon as
possible.
Committee Member Slayden raised a concern that contemplating an overlay district for
the Bend Club may not prove to be worthwhile.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that his motion was not to develop an overlay
district but rather to determine whether there should be one. He then stated that if the
study finds that an overlay district is warranted the next step would be to develop
specific standards.
Councilman Long agreed that this item should be placed on a future agenda. He also
stated that Committee Member Slayden’s concern may be legitimate but would need to
be analyzed to draw that conclusion. He then mentioned when the Committee
formalizes its recommendation to the Council the report can state that other
neighborhoods were studied to determine whether an overlay district should be
considered.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is any objection to having the discussion on the
possibility of creating an overlay district for the Portuguese Bend Club at a future
meeting.
Councilman Long added that the discussion should entail any suggestion Staff may
have regarding ways to in which to modify the Code for the Portuguese Bend Club to
allow it to function more effectively and what recommendations Staff makes for input on
that if any.
The motion passed with one objection from Committee Member Slayden.
Councilman Wolowicz continued with the discussion on Parking and Driveway
Standards and asked if there were any further questions or comments regarding the
proposed modifications. He expressed a concern with the use of the term “directly
adjacent” in the definition and asked whether the phrasing as presented is consistent
with other sections of the Code.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that there is no specific reason why the term “directly
adjacent” is used aside from emphasis. He then stated that “directly” could be dropped.
Councilman Long moved to adopt the proposed amendments to the Parking and
Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly” from Sections E.1
and E.2.
IS-104
August 29, 2005
Page 9 of 13
Committee Member Denton asked if tandem parking for both garages and driveways
should be considered in this discussion. She reminded the Committee that one of the
items identified by the Eastview Sub-committee pertained to the appropriateness of
tandem parking because the Sub-committee found it to be useless with the intent of the
Code because it was not practical.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the matter relating to tandem parking should
have been included in the discussion this evening. He mentioned that as written, the
Code merely states that a two-car garage shall be maintained, but the Code does not
mention that the two parking spaces shall be side-by-side. Therefore, as long as two
parking spaces are being provided and the spaces meet the required minimum
dimensions it does not matter if the spaces are side-by-side, tandem, or placed in
different places on the property. He then added that the Sub-committee found that
tandem spaces are not practical and actually results in cars parking on the street, which
is direct conflict with the intent to get cars off the street.
Committee Member Karp asked Staff how often do projects include tandem parking.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that is quite rare and in most cases the tandem parking
is in addition to the required spaces that are provided in the traditional layout of side-by-
side. He added that tandem parking is not prohibited but that the trend today is to
construct a house with a four to five car garage.
Committee Member Denton noted that a tandem garage was recently approved for a
project on Trudie.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee whether the Code should address tandem
parking spaces.
Councilman Long stated that he can see the problem occurring occasionally but not
frequently enough to pose a problem warranting a Code amendment.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for any additional comments.
Councilman Long restated his earlier motion to adopt the proposed amendments
to the Parking and Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly”
from Sections E.1 and E.2. The motion was seconded by Committee Member
Slayden.
Senior Planner Mihranian requested that if the Committee decides to recommend
increasing the minimum parking dimensions to 10’x20’ that the recommendation to the
Council include amending the commercial parking standards as well.
IS-105
August 29, 2005
Page 10 of 13
Committee Member Karp asked if the recommended change to the minimum parking
dimensions would apply to institutional zones as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the change to the parking dimensions should
apply across each zoning district in the City.
Councilman Long amended the motion to include commercial and institutional
zones to the proposed parking dimension change.
Committee Member Slayden seconded the amendment.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Long asked about compact spaces and that the Code should allow for
them.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code currently allows for compact parking
spaces in commercial and institutional zoning districts.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Sloping Lots and asked for a
Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that this item is a concern raised by Staff relating to
the 8-foot step requirement for sloping lots. He mentioned that as currently written, the
Code does not establish a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors with
the 8-foot step. He stated that in several cases, Staff has seen applications involving
the construction of a house on a sloping lot with a 1-foot separation between the upper
and lower floors. He stated that this is a Staff concern because the intent of the 8-foot
step between the upper and lower floors is to encourage the structure to step with the
natural topography and if projects continue to be designed with little to no separation
between floors then the intent is not being achieved. He presented Code language that
would require sloping structures, including lots that slope parallel to the street, to
maintain an 8-foot step with a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors
of at least 10-feet or 25% of the depth of the structure, whichever is greater. He
provided the Committee with illustrative examples.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the recommended language as
presented. The motion was seconded by Committee Member Cartwright.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for comments.
Committee Member Dyda stated that it clarifies the intent of the 8-foot step requirement.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda topic on Fences, Walls and Hedges.
IS-106
Associate Planner Fox reported on the next topic, which was the minimum driveway
area and explained the recommendations made by the Committee.
Commissioner Gerstner asked what the intent of this revision was.
Chairman Perestam recalled the intent was to help provide parking outside of the
garage, but off the street.
Commissioner Knight questioned the phrase “adjacent to the garage” and asked staff if
they would be lenient enough to allow parking adjacent to the house.
Director Rojas stated that if the Planning Commission would like to maintain the
flexibility to allow the Director to look at cases where there may be some unique
circumstances and have residents not have to apply for a Variance, then he would
suggest taking out the phrase “adjacent to the garage”.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt the Committee’s recommendation
(alternative No. 1) as modified by striking the phrase “adjacent to the garage” in
each instance it occurs, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (7-
0).
Associate Planner Fox reported the next topic was driveway landscape buffers, and
explained the Committee recommendations. He explained that staff supports the
recommendation, but suggested some additional language as seen in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight was concerned that there are some houses in the City where
there is a very narrow driveway that leads back to a rear garage. He explained that in
some of these houses they wouldn’t be able to meet this proposed requirement without
possibly doing some type of additional foundation work to the house or applying for a
Variance.
Associate Planner Fox agreed, and suggested additional language that stated this was
in effect provided there is adequate width between the property line and the foundation
of any existing primary or accessory structure.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve alternative No. 2 as amended by staff,
seconded by Chairman Perestam. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox discussed the last topic, tandem parking. He noted that tandem
parking is not addressed in the Code and that the Director has made an interpretation
that tandem parking spaces could be allowed, but only to provide for excess parking
and not to provide the minimum necessary parking requirements for a single family
residence. He explained the Committee had recommending allowing tandem parking,
but noted that it has been staff’s experience that tandem parking spaces are under
utilized because they’re inconvenient to use. Therefore, staff was recommending
retaining the previous interpretation by the Director.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 12 IS-107
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
DRIVEWAY LANDSCAPE BUFFER
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Driveway Landscape Buffer
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Require a landscaped buffer between driveways and side
property lines
DISCUSSION For aesthetic reasons and to provide more open space within
setback areas, the Committee wished to avoid the placement
of driveways directly abutting property lines and one another.
To do so, it recommended adding a new subsection to Section
17.02.030(E) requiring an 18-inch-wide landscape buffer
between a driveway and an adjacent property line. Staff
supported this recommendation, but suggested that the
language might be clarified to specify that it applies to abutting
side property lines only.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as proposed
2. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as amended
3. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
4. Proposed modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)(8)
Diagram of proposed driveway landscape buffer
RDSSC Minutes of August 29, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of May 13, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 12 of Draft Ordinance
IS-108
Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)
(Additions underlined, deletions struck out)
E. Parking/Driveway Standards.
1. A minimum of two enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of two unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing less than five thousand square feet of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
2. A minimum of three enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of three unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing five thousand square feet or more of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
3. A garage with a direct access driveway from the street of access shall not be
located less than twenty feet from the front or street-side property line, whichever
is the street of access.
4. In addition to the parking requirements for the primary single-family residence on
a property, parking for city-approved second units shall be provided in
accordance with Chapter 17.10 (Second Unit Development Standards).
5. An enclosed parking space shall have an unobstructed ground space of no less
than nine feet in width by twenty feet in depth, with a minimum of seven feet of
vertical clearance over the space. An unenclosed parking space shall have an
unobstructed ground space of no less than nine feet in width by twenty feet in
depth.
6. The following minimum driveway widths and turning radii shall be provided for all
driveways leading from the street of access to a garage or other parking area on
a residential parcel:
a. A driveway shall be a minimum width of ten feet; and
b. A paved twenty-five-foot turning radius shall be provided between the
garage or other parking area and the street of access for driveways which
have an average slope of ten percent or more, and which are fifty feet or
more in length.
7. Driveways shall take into account the driveway standards required by the
department of public works for driveway entrances located in the public right-of-
way.
8. A driveway that is located adjacent to a side property line shall provide a
minimum 18-inch-wide landscape area between the side property line and the
adjacent driveway, unless such buffer would reduce the minimum width of the
driveway to less than ten feet, in which case the width of the landscape buffer
may be narrowed or eliminated at the discretion of the Director.
98. All driveways shall be built and maintained in accordance with the specifications
of the Los Angeles County fire department. If there is any inconsistency between
the standards imposed by this chapter and the standards imposed by the Los
Angeles County fire department, the stricter shall apply.
IS-109
10. Enclosed tandem parking spaces may only be used for parking spaces in excess
of the minimum requirements of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, provided
that each space meets the minimum dimensions specified in subsection (5) of
this section.
IS-110
Garage
18”-Wide
Landscape
Buffer House
IS-111
August 29, 2005
Page 5 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Committee had any comments regarding the
suggested amendments to the Development Code definition of a private street.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended changes to the
Development Code definition of a private street. The motion was seconded by
Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Committee Member Cartwright asked whether setbacks were treated similarly.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that setbacks are measured from the edge of a
private street easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the definition for a private street, as amended to not be
considered a part of a lot when calculating lot coverage, be added to the definition of
setbacks for consistence purposes.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the current definition for setbacks,
setbacks are currently measured from the edge of the private street easement.
Councilman Long stated that as much as possible a private street should be treated
similarly to a public street. He added that setbacks should be measured from the street
easement line for private streets.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that setbacks are taken from the
property line and in some cases the front property line is at the edge of the street or the
edge of the sidewalk. He said that each tract is different.
Councilman Long moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendments to the
definitions relating to private streets and lot coverage. The motion was seconded
by Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Parking and Driveway
Standards. He asked for a brief staff report.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that this item is before the Committee as a result of
concerns raised by the Eastview Sub-Committee regarding the City’s parking standards.
He explained that for clarification purposes, Staff is recommending that the
requirements clearly state that a two-car garage and two-car driveway shall be
maintained for a house less than 5,000 square feet of habitable area and that a three-
car garage and a three car driveway shall be maintained for a house that is greater than
5,000 square feet in area. He added that as part of the Sub-committee’s review of the
Eastview area, a concern was raised regarding the parking stall dimensions stating that
IS-112
August 29, 2005
Page 6 of 13
the Sub-committee felt that based on the size of cars being driven today the dimensions
should be increased Citywide. He explained that the minimum width is proposed to be
increased from 9-feet to 10-feet and that the depth is proposed to remain at 20-feet. He
then explained how the Sub-committee suggested that a landscape area of 18-inches
be provided between the side property line and the edge of a driveway.
Mr. Mihranian informed the Committee that in regards to the parking stall dimensions,
the current 9’ x 20’ requirement applies for both commercial and residential zoned
properties. He stated that increasing the minimum width to 10-feet may result in non-
conformities and that the Committee should consider in its decision. He also stated that
if it is the Committee’s desire to increase the minimum width of a parking stall for
residential properties, that in its recommendation to the City Council, that the increased
dimension be considered for commercial zoned properties as well.
Councilman Long asked what triggers a non-conforming structure from having to
conform. He asked about homes destroyed by a natural disaster.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if 50% of the structure were being demolished
than it would have to be brought to conformity. He explained that a home destroyed by
a natural disaster is grand-fathered and could be rebuilt as is.
Councilman Long stated that the new requirements would only apply to a substantial
remodel or a new home.
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed. He added that the new homes being built today have
garages that are already much larger than the minimum dimensions and that the
proposed changes is to reflect the current trend.
Committee Member Dyda stated that for the proposed Eastview Overlay District a non-
conforming structure would have to be brought to conformity if 75% of the house were
being demolished.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that by increasing the parking dimension the result
may be more variance applications being processed requesting relief from the minimum
parking dimensions. He added that for the contemplated overlay district, the minimum
dimensions for a parking stall were set at 9’x20’.
Committee Member Denton asked how easy it is to have a variance granted.
Councilman Wolowicz mentioned that it was his understanding that variances are not
easily granted.
Committee Member Dyda commented on the proposed 18-inch landscape requirement
between a property line and the edge of the driveway. He stated that the intent is to
prevent having two driveways abut one another and to provide more green space within
the front yard.
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August 29, 2005
Page 7 of 13
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the 18-inch landscape requirement originated with
the Eastview Overlay District and only applies if the Neighborhood Compatibility
requirement is triggered.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the Portuguese Bend Club and
how that community does not comply with most of the City’s current development
standards and that variances are frequently sought after. He questioned what such a
change would do to that part of the City and why an overlay district has not been
contemplated similarly to Eastview.
Councilman Wolowicz questioned whether the Portuguese Bend Club had an overlay
district established already.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there is no overlay district for the Bend Club
and that there was a time when the City was coordinating with the HOA to develop an
overlay district but that was eventually shelved.
Councilman Wolowicz asked whether there should be an overlay or at least a study as
to whether one should or should not be established.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that there should be a study.
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that the HOA chose not to proceed with an overlay
district.
Committee Member Dyda emphasized that similar to any other neighborhood in the
City, the Bend Club should be subject to the City’s development standards unless
special standards are adopted for that community.
Councilman Long stated that if the rules that apply to the City are so different to the
reality on the ground so that anytime there is something done a variance is sought after
then the rules are being broken.
Committee Member Dyda stated that is the reason why an overlay district was
considered for Eastview.
Committee Member Cartwright moved that the Committee discuss at an
upcoming meeting whether an overlay district should be considered for the
Portuguese Bend Club. The motion was seconded by Councilman Long.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked whether Staff should contact the HOA to see if they are
interested in developing an Overlay District.
Committee Member Denton stated that the HOA should not dictate what the City feels is
best for the overall community.
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August 29, 2005
Page 8 of 13
Councilman Long added that the public hearing process provides the residents an
opportunity to share their opinions.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee to forward points of interest relating to the
Portuguese Bend Club to Staff. He then asked Staff to bring this item back as soon as
possible.
Committee Member Slayden raised a concern that contemplating an overlay district for
the Bend Club may not prove to be worthwhile.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that his motion was not to develop an overlay
district but rather to determine whether there should be one. He then stated that if the
study finds that an overlay district is warranted the next step would be to develop
specific standards.
Councilman Long agreed that this item should be placed on a future agenda. He also
stated that Committee Member Slayden’s concern may be legitimate but would need to
be analyzed to draw that conclusion. He then mentioned when the Committee
formalizes its recommendation to the Council the report can state that other
neighborhoods were studied to determine whether an overlay district should be
considered.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is any objection to having the discussion on the
possibility of creating an overlay district for the Portuguese Bend Club at a future
meeting.
Councilman Long added that the discussion should entail any suggestion Staff may
have regarding ways to in which to modify the Code for the Portuguese Bend Club to
allow it to function more effectively and what recommendations Staff makes for input on
that if any.
The motion passed with one objection from Committee Member Slayden.
Councilman Wolowicz continued with the discussion on Parking and Driveway
Standards and asked if there were any further questions or comments regarding the
proposed modifications. He expressed a concern with the use of the term “directly
adjacent” in the definition and asked whether the phrasing as presented is consistent
with other sections of the Code.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that there is no specific reason why the term “directly
adjacent” is used aside from emphasis. He then stated that “directly” could be dropped.
Councilman Long moved to adopt the proposed amendments to the Parking and
Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly” from Sections E.1
and E.2.
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August 29, 2005
Page 9 of 13
Committee Member Denton asked if tandem parking for both garages and driveways
should be considered in this discussion. She reminded the Committee that one of the
items identified by the Eastview Sub-committee pertained to the appropriateness of
tandem parking because the Sub-committee found it to be useless with the intent of the
Code because it was not practical.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the matter relating to tandem parking should
have been included in the discussion this evening. He mentioned that as written, the
Code merely states that a two-car garage shall be maintained, but the Code does not
mention that the two parking spaces shall be side-by-side. Therefore, as long as two
parking spaces are being provided and the spaces meet the required minimum
dimensions it does not matter if the spaces are side-by-side, tandem, or placed in
different places on the property. He then added that the Sub-committee found that
tandem spaces are not practical and actually results in cars parking on the street, which
is direct conflict with the intent to get cars off the street.
Committee Member Karp asked Staff how often do projects include tandem parking.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that is quite rare and in most cases the tandem parking
is in addition to the required spaces that are provided in the traditional layout of side-by-
side. He added that tandem parking is not prohibited but that the trend today is to
construct a house with a four to five car garage.
Committee Member Denton noted that a tandem garage was recently approved for a
project on Trudie.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee whether the Code should address tandem
parking spaces.
Councilman Long stated that he can see the problem occurring occasionally but not
frequently enough to pose a problem warranting a Code amendment.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for any additional comments.
Councilman Long restated his earlier motion to adopt the proposed amendments
to the Parking and Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly”
from Sections E.1 and E.2. The motion was seconded by Committee Member
Slayden.
Senior Planner Mihranian requested that if the Committee decides to recommend
increasing the minimum parking dimensions to 10’x20’ that the recommendation to the
Council include amending the commercial parking standards as well.
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August 29, 2005
Page 10 of 13
Committee Member Karp asked if the recommended change to the minimum parking
dimensions would apply to institutional zones as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the change to the parking dimensions should
apply across each zoning district in the City.
Councilman Long amended the motion to include commercial and institutional
zones to the proposed parking dimension change.
Committee Member Slayden seconded the amendment.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Long asked about compact spaces and that the Code should allow for
them.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code currently allows for compact parking
spaces in commercial and institutional zoning districts.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Sloping Lots and asked for a
Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that this item is a concern raised by Staff relating to
the 8-foot step requirement for sloping lots. He mentioned that as currently written, the
Code does not establish a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors with
the 8-foot step. He stated that in several cases, Staff has seen applications involving
the construction of a house on a sloping lot with a 1-foot separation between the upper
and lower floors. He stated that this is a Staff concern because the intent of the 8-foot
step between the upper and lower floors is to encourage the structure to step with the
natural topography and if projects continue to be designed with little to no separation
between floors then the intent is not being achieved. He presented Code language that
would require sloping structures, including lots that slope parallel to the street, to
maintain an 8-foot step with a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors
of at least 10-feet or 25% of the depth of the structure, whichever is greater. He
provided the Committee with illustrative examples.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the recommended language as
presented. The motion was seconded by Committee Member Cartwright.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for comments.
Committee Member Dyda stated that it clarifies the intent of the 8-foot step requirement.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda topic on Fences, Walls and Hedges.
IS-117
Associate Planner Fox reported on the next topic, which was the minimum driveway
area and explained the recommendations made by the Committee.
Commissioner Gerstner asked what the intent of this revision was.
Chairman Perestam recalled the intent was to help provide parking outside of the
garage, but off the street.
Commissioner Knight questioned the phrase “adjacent to the garage” and asked staff if
they would be lenient enough to allow parking adjacent to the house.
Director Rojas stated that if the Planning Commission would like to maintain the
flexibility to allow the Director to look at cases where there may be some unique
circumstances and have residents not have to apply for a Variance, then he would
suggest taking out the phrase “adjacent to the garage”.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt the Committee’s recommendation
(alternative No. 1) as modified by striking the phrase “adjacent to the garage” in
each instance it occurs, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (7-
0).
Associate Planner Fox reported the next topic was driveway landscape buffers, and
explained the Committee recommendations. He explained that staff supports the
recommendation, but suggested some additional language as seen in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight was concerned that there are some houses in the City where
there is a very narrow driveway that leads back to a rear garage. He explained that in
some of these houses they wouldn’t be able to meet this proposed requirement without
possibly doing some type of additional foundation work to the house or applying for a
Variance.
Associate Planner Fox agreed, and suggested additional language that stated this was
in effect provided there is adequate width between the property line and the foundation
of any existing primary or accessory structure.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve alternative No. 2 as amended by staff,
seconded by Chairman Perestam. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox discussed the last topic, tandem parking. He noted that tandem
parking is not addressed in the Code and that the Director has made an interpretation
that tandem parking spaces could be allowed, but only to provide for excess parking
and not to provide the minimum necessary parking requirements for a single family
residence. He explained the Committee had recommending allowing tandem parking,
but noted that it has been staff’s experience that tandem parking spaces are under
utilized because they’re inconvenient to use. Therefore, staff was recommending
retaining the previous interpretation by the Director.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 12 IS-118
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
TANDEM PARKING
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Tandem Parking
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Permit enclosed tandem parking spaces for single-family
residences
DISCUSSION Tandem (i.e., end-to-end) parking spaces are not specifically
addressed in the Development Code. However, in 2002 the
Director of Planning, Building and Code Enforcement issued
an interpretation of the single-family residential parking
standards and determined that tandem spaces could not be
used “to satisfy the minimum off-street parking requirements
for single-family residences.” The RDSSC desired to allow
enclosed tandem parking spaces by adding a new subsection
to Section 17.02.030(E), to wit:
10. Enclosed tandem parking spaces may be used to
satisfy the provisions of subsections (1) and (2) of this section,
provided that each space meets the minimum dimensions
specified in subsection (5) of this section.
Staff’s professional experience was that tandem parking
spaces are underutilized due to the inconvenience of having
to move one vehicle to get to another. As such, Staff
recommended only allowing tandem parking for parking
spaces provided in excess of the minimum requirement,
based upon the living area of the residence, except in the Mira
Vista overlay area.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as proposed
2. Accept the RDSSC recommendation as amended
3. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
4. Proposed modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)(10)
Tandem parking diagrams
RDSSC Minutes of August 29, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of May 13, 2008 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 12 of Draft Ordinance
IS-119
Proposed Section 17.02.030(E)
(Additions underlined, deletions struck out)
E. Parking/Driveway Standards.
1. A minimum of two enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of two unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing less than five thousand square feet of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
2. A minimum of three enclosed parking spaces shall be provided and maintained in
a garage, and a minimum of three unenclosed parking spaces shall be provided
and maintained as a driveway, on the property of each single-family dwelling unit
containing five thousand square feet or more of habitable space, as determined
by the director.
3. A garage with a direct access driveway from the street of access shall not be
located less than twenty feet from the front or street-side property line, whichever
is the street of access.
4. In addition to the parking requirements for the primary single-family residence on
a property, parking for city-approved second units shall be provided in
accordance with Chapter 17.10 (Second Unit Development Standards).
5. An enclosed parking space shall have an unobstructed ground space of no less
than nine feet in width by twenty feet in depth, with a minimum of seven feet of
vertical clearance over the space. An unenclosed parking space shall have an
unobstructed ground space of no less than nine feet in width by twenty feet in
depth.
6. The following minimum driveway widths and turning radii shall be provided for all
driveways leading from the street of access to a garage or other parking area on
a residential parcel:
a. A driveway shall be a minimum width of ten feet; and
b. A paved twenty-five-foot turning radius shall be provided between the
garage or other parking area and the street of access for driveways which
have an average slope of ten percent or more, and which are fifty feet or
more in length.
7. Driveways shall take into account the driveway standards required by the
department of public works for driveway entrances located in the public right-of-
way.
8. A driveway that is located adjacent to a side property line shall provide a
minimum 18-inch-wide landscape area between the side property line and the
adjacent driveway, unless such buffer would reduce the minimum width of the
driveway to less than ten feet, in which case the width of the landscape buffer
may be narrowed or eliminated at the discretion of the Director.
98. All driveways shall be built and maintained in accordance with the specifications
of the Los Angeles County fire department. If there is any inconsistency between
the standards imposed by this chapter and the standards imposed by the Los
Angeles County fire department, the stricter shall apply.
IS-120
10. Enclosed tandem parking spaces may only be used for parking spaces in excess
of the minimum requirements of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, provided
that each space meets the minimum dimensions specified in subsection (5) of
this section.
IS-121
Tandem Parking Diagram: < 5,000 SF Living Area, 2 Spaces Required
IS-122
Tandem Parking Diagram: > 5,000 SF Living Area, 3 Spaces Required
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August 29, 2005
Page 5 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the Committee had any comments regarding the
suggested amendments to the Development Code definition of a private street.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended changes to the
Development Code definition of a private street. The motion was seconded by
Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Committee Member Cartwright asked whether setbacks were treated similarly.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that setbacks are measured from the edge of a
private street easement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the definition for a private street, as amended to not be
considered a part of a lot when calculating lot coverage, be added to the definition of
setbacks for consistence purposes.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the current definition for setbacks,
setbacks are currently measured from the edge of the private street easement.
Councilman Long stated that as much as possible a private street should be treated
similarly to a public street. He added that setbacks should be measured from the street
easement line for private streets.
Committee Member Dyda reminded the Committee that setbacks are taken from the
property line and in some cases the front property line is at the edge of the street or the
edge of the sidewalk. He said that each tract is different.
Councilman Long moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendments to the
definitions relating to private streets and lot coverage. The motion was seconded
by Committee Member Dyda.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Parking and Driveway
Standards. He asked for a brief staff report.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that this item is before the Committee as a result of
concerns raised by the Eastview Sub-Committee regarding the City’s parking standards.
He explained that for clarification purposes, Staff is recommending that the
requirements clearly state that a two-car garage and two-car driveway shall be
maintained for a house less than 5,000 square feet of habitable area and that a three-
car garage and a three car driveway shall be maintained for a house that is greater than
5,000 square feet in area. He added that as part of the Sub-committee’s review of the
Eastview area, a concern was raised regarding the parking stall dimensions stating that
IS-124
August 29, 2005
Page 6 of 13
the Sub-committee felt that based on the size of cars being driven today the dimensions
should be increased Citywide. He explained that the minimum width is proposed to be
increased from 9-feet to 10-feet and that the depth is proposed to remain at 20-feet. He
then explained how the Sub-committee suggested that a landscape area of 18-inches
be provided between the side property line and the edge of a driveway.
Mr. Mihranian informed the Committee that in regards to the parking stall dimensions,
the current 9’ x 20’ requirement applies for both commercial and residential zoned
properties. He stated that increasing the minimum width to 10-feet may result in non-
conformities and that the Committee should consider in its decision. He also stated that
if it is the Committee’s desire to increase the minimum width of a parking stall for
residential properties, that in its recommendation to the City Council, that the increased
dimension be considered for commercial zoned properties as well.
Councilman Long asked what triggers a non-conforming structure from having to
conform. He asked about homes destroyed by a natural disaster.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if 50% of the structure were being demolished
than it would have to be brought to conformity. He explained that a home destroyed by
a natural disaster is grand-fathered and could be rebuilt as is.
Councilman Long stated that the new requirements would only apply to a substantial
remodel or a new home.
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed. He added that the new homes being built today have
garages that are already much larger than the minimum dimensions and that the
proposed changes is to reflect the current trend.
Committee Member Dyda stated that for the proposed Eastview Overlay District a non-
conforming structure would have to be brought to conformity if 75% of the house were
being demolished.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that by increasing the parking dimension the result
may be more variance applications being processed requesting relief from the minimum
parking dimensions. He added that for the contemplated overlay district, the minimum
dimensions for a parking stall were set at 9’x20’.
Committee Member Denton asked how easy it is to have a variance granted.
Councilman Wolowicz mentioned that it was his understanding that variances are not
easily granted.
Committee Member Dyda commented on the proposed 18-inch landscape requirement
between a property line and the edge of the driveway. He stated that the intent is to
prevent having two driveways abut one another and to provide more green space within
the front yard.
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August 29, 2005
Page 7 of 13
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the 18-inch landscape requirement originated with
the Eastview Overlay District and only applies if the Neighborhood Compatibility
requirement is triggered.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the Portuguese Bend Club and
how that community does not comply with most of the City’s current development
standards and that variances are frequently sought after. He questioned what such a
change would do to that part of the City and why an overlay district has not been
contemplated similarly to Eastview.
Councilman Wolowicz questioned whether the Portuguese Bend Club had an overlay
district established already.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there is no overlay district for the Bend Club
and that there was a time when the City was coordinating with the HOA to develop an
overlay district but that was eventually shelved.
Councilman Wolowicz asked whether there should be an overlay or at least a study as
to whether one should or should not be established.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that there should be a study.
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that the HOA chose not to proceed with an overlay
district.
Committee Member Dyda emphasized that similar to any other neighborhood in the
City, the Bend Club should be subject to the City’s development standards unless
special standards are adopted for that community.
Councilman Long stated that if the rules that apply to the City are so different to the
reality on the ground so that anytime there is something done a variance is sought after
then the rules are being broken.
Committee Member Dyda stated that is the reason why an overlay district was
considered for Eastview.
Committee Member Cartwright moved that the Committee discuss at an
upcoming meeting whether an overlay district should be considered for the
Portuguese Bend Club. The motion was seconded by Councilman Long.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked whether Staff should contact the HOA to see if they are
interested in developing an Overlay District.
Committee Member Denton stated that the HOA should not dictate what the City feels is
best for the overall community.
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August 29, 2005
Page 8 of 13
Councilman Long added that the public hearing process provides the residents an
opportunity to share their opinions.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee to forward points of interest relating to the
Portuguese Bend Club to Staff. He then asked Staff to bring this item back as soon as
possible.
Committee Member Slayden raised a concern that contemplating an overlay district for
the Bend Club may not prove to be worthwhile.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that his motion was not to develop an overlay
district but rather to determine whether there should be one. He then stated that if the
study finds that an overlay district is warranted the next step would be to develop
specific standards.
Councilman Long agreed that this item should be placed on a future agenda. He also
stated that Committee Member Slayden’s concern may be legitimate but would need to
be analyzed to draw that conclusion. He then mentioned when the Committee
formalizes its recommendation to the Council the report can state that other
neighborhoods were studied to determine whether an overlay district should be
considered.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is any objection to having the discussion on the
possibility of creating an overlay district for the Portuguese Bend Club at a future
meeting.
Councilman Long added that the discussion should entail any suggestion Staff may
have regarding ways to in which to modify the Code for the Portuguese Bend Club to
allow it to function more effectively and what recommendations Staff makes for input on
that if any.
The motion passed with one objection from Committee Member Slayden.
Councilman Wolowicz continued with the discussion on Parking and Driveway
Standards and asked if there were any further questions or comments regarding the
proposed modifications. He expressed a concern with the use of the term “directly
adjacent” in the definition and asked whether the phrasing as presented is consistent
with other sections of the Code.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that there is no specific reason why the term “directly
adjacent” is used aside from emphasis. He then stated that “directly” could be dropped.
Councilman Long moved to adopt the proposed amendments to the Parking and
Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly” from Sections E.1
and E.2.
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August 29, 2005
Page 9 of 13
Committee Member Denton asked if tandem parking for both garages and driveways
should be considered in this discussion. She reminded the Committee that one of the
items identified by the Eastview Sub-committee pertained to the appropriateness of
tandem parking because the Sub-committee found it to be useless with the intent of the
Code because it was not practical.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the matter relating to tandem parking should
have been included in the discussion this evening. He mentioned that as written, the
Code merely states that a two-car garage shall be maintained, but the Code does not
mention that the two parking spaces shall be side-by-side. Therefore, as long as two
parking spaces are being provided and the spaces meet the required minimum
dimensions it does not matter if the spaces are side-by-side, tandem, or placed in
different places on the property. He then added that the Sub-committee found that
tandem spaces are not practical and actually results in cars parking on the street, which
is direct conflict with the intent to get cars off the street.
Committee Member Karp asked Staff how often do projects include tandem parking.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that is quite rare and in most cases the tandem parking
is in addition to the required spaces that are provided in the traditional layout of side-by-
side. He added that tandem parking is not prohibited but that the trend today is to
construct a house with a four to five car garage.
Committee Member Denton noted that a tandem garage was recently approved for a
project on Trudie.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee whether the Code should address tandem
parking spaces.
Councilman Long stated that he can see the problem occurring occasionally but not
frequently enough to pose a problem warranting a Code amendment.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for any additional comments.
Councilman Long restated his earlier motion to adopt the proposed amendments
to the Parking and Driveway Standards with the removal of the word “directly”
from Sections E.1 and E.2. The motion was seconded by Committee Member
Slayden.
Senior Planner Mihranian requested that if the Committee decides to recommend
increasing the minimum parking dimensions to 10’x20’ that the recommendation to the
Council include amending the commercial parking standards as well.
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August 29, 2005
Page 10 of 13
Committee Member Karp asked if the recommended change to the minimum parking
dimensions would apply to institutional zones as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the change to the parking dimensions should
apply across each zoning district in the City.
Councilman Long amended the motion to include commercial and institutional
zones to the proposed parking dimension change.
Committee Member Slayden seconded the amendment.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Long asked about compact spaces and that the Code should allow for
them.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code currently allows for compact parking
spaces in commercial and institutional zoning districts.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda item on Sloping Lots and asked for a
Staff Report.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that this item is a concern raised by Staff relating to
the 8-foot step requirement for sloping lots. He mentioned that as currently written, the
Code does not establish a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors with
the 8-foot step. He stated that in several cases, Staff has seen applications involving
the construction of a house on a sloping lot with a 1-foot separation between the upper
and lower floors. He stated that this is a Staff concern because the intent of the 8-foot
step between the upper and lower floors is to encourage the structure to step with the
natural topography and if projects continue to be designed with little to no separation
between floors then the intent is not being achieved. He presented Code language that
would require sloping structures, including lots that slope parallel to the street, to
maintain an 8-foot step with a minimum separation between the upper and lower floors
of at least 10-feet or 25% of the depth of the structure, whichever is greater. He
provided the Committee with illustrative examples.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt the recommended language as
presented. The motion was seconded by Committee Member Cartwright.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for comments.
Committee Member Dyda stated that it clarifies the intent of the 8-foot step requirement.
The motion passed unanimously.
Councilman Wolowicz introduced the next agenda topic on Fences, Walls and Hedges.
IS-129
Associate Planner Fox reported on the next topic, which was the minimum driveway
area and explained the recommendations made by the Committee.
Commissioner Gerstner asked what the intent of this revision was.
Chairman Perestam recalled the intent was to help provide parking outside of the
garage, but off the street.
Commissioner Knight questioned the phrase “adjacent to the garage” and asked staff if
they would be lenient enough to allow parking adjacent to the house.
Director Rojas stated that if the Planning Commission would like to maintain the
flexibility to allow the Director to look at cases where there may be some unique
circumstances and have residents not have to apply for a Variance, then he would
suggest taking out the phrase “adjacent to the garage”.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt the Committee’s recommendation
(alternative No. 1) as modified by striking the phrase “adjacent to the garage” in
each instance it occurs, seconded by Commissioner Ruttenberg. Approved, (7-
0).
Associate Planner Fox reported the next topic was driveway landscape buffers, and
explained the Committee recommendations. He explained that staff supports the
recommendation, but suggested some additional language as seen in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight was concerned that there are some houses in the City where
there is a very narrow driveway that leads back to a rear garage. He explained that in
some of these houses they wouldn’t be able to meet this proposed requirement without
possibly doing some type of additional foundation work to the house or applying for a
Variance.
Associate Planner Fox agreed, and suggested additional language that stated this was
in effect provided there is adequate width between the property line and the foundation
of any existing primary or accessory structure.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve alternative No. 2 as amended by staff,
seconded by Chairman Perestam. Approved, (7-0).
Associate Planner Fox discussed the last topic, tandem parking. He noted that tandem
parking is not addressed in the Code and that the Director has made an interpretation
that tandem parking spaces could be allowed, but only to provide for excess parking
and not to provide the minimum necessary parking requirements for a single family
residence. He explained the Committee had recommending allowing tandem parking,
but noted that it has been staff’s experience that tandem parking spaces are under
utilized because they’re inconvenient to use. Therefore, staff was recommending
retaining the previous interpretation by the Director.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 12 IS-130
Commissioner Knight agreed with staff’s recommendation.
Chairman Perestam asked if this condition will be different in the proposed overlay
district, noting that the original intent started with the need for some flexibility and relief
for the smaller homes on the smaller lots.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the distinction is not in the current language, but
agreed that if there is any place in the City where tandem parking would be appropriate,
it would be in that area.
Chairman Perestam suggested looking at the approved language for the overlay district.
Associate Planner Fox stated he could review the minutes and staff reports to see what
the intent was, and report back at the next meeting.
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the discussion regarding tandem
parking to the next Planning Commission meeting, seconded by Commissioner
Gerstner. Approved, (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Green Building Program
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, explaining the request to amend
Titles 15 and 17 of the Municipal Code to encourage green building construction. She
discussed the proposed volunteer residential green building program, the incentives to
participate in this type of program, and proposed city wide green building requirements.
She stated that staff was recommending the Planning Commission review the proposed
voluntary green building program and proposed green related code amendments,
provide staff with feedback, and continue the public hearing to June 10, 2008.
Vice Chairman Lewis noted that impervious walkways and patios less than 500 square
feet in area would be excluded from lot coverage calculations, and asked if that includes
decks less than 500 square feet in area.
Director Rojas explained that currently decks less than 30 inches in height are excluded
from lot coverage calculations and no change is proposed.
Commissioner Knight referred to the discussion on roof mounted photovoltaic panels
and asked if that also included domestic hot water panels.
Associate Planner Mikhail answered that the current code amendment only includes
photovoltaic panels, however the hot water solar panels could be included in this type of
code amendment.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2008
Page 13 IS-131
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Residential Development Standards code amendment and zone change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining the remaining issues to
discuss are tandem parking spaces in garages and considering allowing tandem
parking in the Mira Vista Overlay District. He explained that the Committee had
recommended permitting tandem parking spaces, however staff recommended
permitting tandem parking spaces only for enclosed off-street parking spaces in excess
of the minimum code requirements. He also explained that in regards to the Mira Vista
Overlay District, staff agrees that the unique circumstances of the Mira Vista area
makes it the one area of the City where tandem parking should be allowed to satisfy the
minimum off-street parking requirements, thereby allowing property owners to provide
additional off-street parking without having to demolish a significant portion of their
existing residences. Staff is also suggesting allowing the construction of new detached
garages to encroach into the 15-foot rear setback as another means to increase off-
street parking in the neighborhood.
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked if the City currently specifically prohibits tandem parking
for non-required spaces.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the City does not currently prohibit tandem
parking. However, he noted that there was an interpretation procedure in 2002 where
the Director made an interpretation that tandem parking was only allowed for surplus
parking spaces.
Commissioner Perestam moved to adopt staff’s revised recommendation
regarding tandem parking, seconded by Vice Chairman Gerstner. The motion
was approved without objection.
Commissioner Knight referred to page 12 of the staff report, item No. 8, which
discusses driveways adjacent to the property line and the need for a minimum 18 inch
landscape area between the property line and adjacent driveway. He discussed
properties in the city where it would not be possible to conform to this code and asked
staff how those would be handled.
Associate Planner Fox explained that in those cases they could be considered legal
non-conforming, or if they want to do improvements they could apply for a Variance or a
Minor Exception Permit.
Associate Planner Fox continued to the recommendations from the Committee in terms
of fences, walls, and hedges. He explained the three recommendations made by the
Committee as outlined in the staff report. He explained that staff is recommending
modifying a committee recommendation to allow for 6-foot tall fences, walls, and
hedges at the street side property line of corner lots rather than at the setback line.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 10 IS-132
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
STREET-SIDE WALL & FENCE HEIGHT
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Street-Side Wall & Fence Height
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Limit the height of fences, walls and hedges between the
street-side property line and setback line to forty-two inches
(42”) and allow 6-foot-tall fences, walls and hedges outside of
the street-side setback area.
DISCUSSION For corner lots, the current Code requires that a fence, wall or
hedge not exceed forty-two inches (42”) in height between the
street-side property line and the closest building facade. The
Committee believed that this standard causes a hardship to
corner lots because it limits the private use and enjoyment of
rear yards. As such, the Committee consensus was to allow a
6-foot-tall fence/wall/hedge at the street-side setback line,
which is typically ten feet (10’-0”) from the property line.
Some Committee members were concerned that the
recommended language would allow a 6-foot-tall fence/wall/
hedge to be built closer to the street than is currently
permitted. This is true. However, Staff agreed that the
current Code penalizes corner lots and creates many
nonconforming conditions throughout the City. In comments
made on August 1, 2006, then-Councilman Gardiner
appeared to share this concern. In fact, Staff recommended
modifying the Committee’s recommendation to allow 6-foot-tall
fences/walls/hedges at the street-side property line, rather
than at the setback line. Staff believed that this would be
most equitable to corner lots and would reduce the number of
nonconformities created when the current Code language was
adopted in 1997. Staff recommended modifying the
Committee’s proposed language as follows (RDSSC
recommendation underlined, Staff suggestion bold and
underlined):
a. Fences, walls and hedges located between the front
property line and the exterior facade of the existing single-
family residence closest to the front property line or between
the street side property line and the existing single-family
residence closest to the street side property line shall
meet the following standards:
In addition, the current Code language of Section
17.76.030(D)(1)(a) that allows 6-foot-tall fences in front and
IS-133
street-side yard areas with a minor exception permit would
need to be revised as follows (additions bold and underlined,
deletions struck out):
a. Fences, as defined in Chapter 17.96 (Definitions),
higher than forty-two inches and up to six feet in height
located in the front and street-side setback areas; provided,
the area between the street and any such fence is
landscaped, per a plan approved by the director of planning;
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Accept Staff’s recommendation
3. Reject either/both recommendations
4. Propose modifications to either/both recommendations
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Proposed Section 17.76.030(C)
Comparative Diagram of RDSSC and Staff Recommendations
RDSSC Minutes of September 26, 2005 (excerpt)
CC Minutes of August 1, 2006 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 13 of Draft Ordinance
IS-134
Street
20’
5’
Location of Maximum 6’-Tall
Fence/Wall/Hedge under
RDSSC Recommendation
Location of Maximum 6’-Tall
Fence/Wall/Hedge under
Current Code
15’
Existing
Building
Setback
(example)
10’
Minimum
Street-Side
Structure
Setback
Location of Maximum 6’-Tall
Fence/Wall/Hedge under
Staff’s and Councilman
Gardiner’s Recommendation
Street
IS-135
September 26, 2005
Page 6 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian reiterated that this issue is not a problem that is seen at the
Planning Department.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a second to the amendment to the motion. Hearing to
no second, he asked for a vote on the original motion made by Committee Member
Slayden and seconded by Committee Member Karp.
The motion passed with Commissioner Gerstner objecting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if the amendment to the earlier motion made by
Commissioner Mueller warranted further discussion as a separate agenda topic.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that was not necessary because the Code already
requires setbacks be measured from the edge of the easement line.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there were any other comments regarding the
amendment to the motion. He then introduced the next agenda topic of Fences, Walls
and Hedges and asked for a Staff presentation.
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next agenda topic by providing the Committee
with background information. He stated that at the last Committee Meeting, Staff raised
a concern regarding the current Code requirement for fences, walls and hedges located
on corner lots. He mentioned that although Staff raised a concern, Staff stopped short
from identifying a suggested change. Therefore, the Committee directed Staff to bring
back a recommendation for consideration this evening. Furthermore, the Committee
asked Staff to bring back a definition of what a hedge is and is not, as well as provide
illustrative examples for each of the requirements. Based on Committee directive, he
presented the respective information using a power point presentation.
Mr. Mihranian stated that the Code’s setback requirements do not apply for fences,
walls and hedges as they have their own requirements. He stated that fences, walls or
hedges cannot exceed 42-inches in height from the front property line up to the closest
building façade to the front property line, and this requirement is similar to corner lots.
Committee Member Dyda asked what if the back yard of one’s property abuts the front
area of another property how tall can a fence be?
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that in this scenario the fence along the rear property
line can be up to 6-feet in height provided it is on that property. He added that as long
as there is no grade differential between the two properties, otherwise a Fence, Wall
and Hedge Permit may be required to assess whether a potential view impairment
would be caused by a 6-foot high fence.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with the line that establishes where a 42-inch
high fence, wall or hedge can go up to 6-feet in height within the front yard area, stating
IS-136
September 26, 2005
Page 7 of 12
that it should be based on the front yard setback limit because that is where a structure
can be built up to 16-feet in height.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the height requirement for fences is based on
aesthetics and that it is the City Council’s policy decision whether they want to allow
taller fences closer to the street property line.
Commissioner Gerstner reiterated his concern stating that it did not make sense since a
house at 16-feet can built up to the front yard setback limit which is 20-feet.
Councilman Wolowicz expressed his concern with fences and hedges, citing examples
in his neighborhood, specifically on Lomo Drive. He stated that the hedges he sees in
his neighborhood exceed the Code’s height limit.
Commissioner Mueller asked what the height limit is for a hedge located within the front
yard area.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the area between the front property line and the
closest building facade to the street property line, a hedge cannot exceed 42-inches in
height.
Committee Member Karp referred to hedges and fences that are taller than 42-inches in
height located within the front yard area, specifically a 5-foot tall redwood fence.
Committee Member Denton agreed referring to the same redwood fence as Committee
Member Karp.
Senior Planner Mihranian continued with Staff’s presentation by reminding the
Committee of Staff’s concern regarding corner lots, stating that as written, the Code
prohibits a fence, wall or hedge to be taller than 42-inches in height unless it is beyond
the building facade line and this limits the useable portion of the rear yard. He stated
that Staff is recommending that the Code requirement be amended for corner lots so
that fences, walls and hedges are limited to 42-inches in height between the street side
property line and the street side setback, which in many cases is 10-feet in from the
street side property line.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if a 6-foot high fence that is in need of repair be
replaced in its same location if it is non-conforming.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that a legal non-conforming fence can be repaired
within the same location.
Committee Member Dyda asked if the fence can be repaired from wood material to
concrete block material.
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September 26, 2005
Page 8 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code allows legal non-conforming fences/walls
to be repaired with a similar type of structure, such as fence for fence or wall for wall.
He defined a wall as a solid structure constructed from either wood or concrete, and a
fence allows light and air to pass through it. A fence can be replaced with a fence and a
wall can be replaced with a wall. He added that if one voluntarily demolishes a legal
non-conforming wall as part of a modernization project, then the property owner will be
asked to construct the new wall based on current Code requirements.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if a variance would be supported by Staff to allow such a
fence or wall to be replaced in its existing location if it were voluntarily torn down.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that in most cases Staff would recommend denial for
such a Variance.
Commissioner Mueller stated that the Planning Commission has reviewed such
variance requests and the decision by the Planning Commission varies on a case-by-
case basis.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if it would make sense to add language that spells out
when a fence or wall can be torn down and replaced in its pre-existing location.
Committee Member Denton stated that aside from repairing damaged fences and walls,
what other situation would the City allow a non-conforming fence or wall to be rebuilt
without having to be brought to conformity.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that a legal non-conforming fence or wall can be
repaired because it is grand-fathered. However, if a fence or wall is voluntarily
upgraded it will have to meet the new Code requirements. He added that new language
is not necessary because it already exists.
Committee Member Dyda asked Staff when the 80% light and air requirement is
applied.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that within the required front yard area a fence beyond
42-inches in height up to a maximum 6-feet in height may be permitted with a Minor
Exception Permit, provided it is 80% open to light and air.
Committee Member Karp asked why hedges within the front yard area are allowed to
grow taller than 42-inches in height.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that such hedges are not allowed to exceed 42-
inches in height. If a hedge exceeds 42-inches within the front yard area then the
property owner is in violation of the Development Code and it becomes an enforcement
matter.
Committee Member Karp raised a concern regarding enforcement.
IS-138
September 26, 2005
Page 9 of 12
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt Staff’s recommendation to amend the
fence, wall and hedge requirement for corner lots to read as follows: “Fences,
walls and hedges located between the from property line and the exterior facade
of the existing single-family residence closest to the front property line or
between the street side property line and the street side setback requirement, as
defined in Section 17.02, shall meet the following standards…”
Committee Member Slayden seconded the motion.
Commissioner Mueller stated that this change allows a fence, wall or hedge to be built
closer to the street.
The motion passed with Commissioner Mueller objecting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to continue with its next recommended amendment.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that based on an error identified by the Committee at
the last meeting, the Code section prohibiting chain link, chicken wire, and fiber glass
fences along property lines abutting major arterial roads, Staff is recommending adding
Palos Verdes Drive West to the list which was inadvertently left out.
Committee Member Karp raised a concern with fencing that is prohibited on private
property but is allowed on City owned property.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the criteria difference is based on aesthetic value
and costs.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendment to
Section 17.76.030(E)(5) by adding Palos Verdes Drive West to the list.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
Commissioner Gerstner informed the Committee that chicken wire is now referred to as
poultry netting.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that fences placed on City owned property is a Public
Works matter. He added that this Committee should not review such fence
requirements as it is beyond the Committee’s scope of work that is to review residential
development standards. He suggested that the Committee recommend to the City
Council that they review the fence criteria on City owned property as a separate matter.
The Committee agreed to recommend to the Council to review the type of fencing
permitted on City owned properties.
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 9 of 16
which has essentially prevented this issue from being placed on the November ballot;
and noted that the Sheriff’s Department is therefore requesting this item be tabled.
Councilman Clark moved to table this item.
Councilman Stern asked if the approximate $500,000 given to the community under this
proposal can wisely be earmarked, noting there is limited gang activity in this area.
Sheriff Captain Jay Zuanich agreed that there is no gang problem in Rancho Palos
Verdes, but stated that there has to be a nexus between the use of that money and
gang activity; he stated that the money could be used for gang-related education; noted
that it can be used to stop gang graffiti which is taking place on the peninsula from
gangs living elsewhere; and mentioned that the Sheriffs do make arrests of gang
members who are visiting and commit crimes in this area.
Councilman Stern expressed his concern with the limitations on the package for
spending the $500,000, believing there is potential to not spend the money wisely; and
questioned if there is a way to broaden the breadth of those limitations for this
community.
Captain Zuanich stated that he will advise his superiors of that concern.
Councilman Clark asked if any more consideration has been given to establishing a
Sheriff’s substation in Rancho Palos Verdes.
Captain Zuanich stated that there has been no clearly defined discussion of that
proposal.
Councilman Stern seconded the motion to table this item. Without objection, Mayor
Wolowicz so ordered.
Residential Development Standards Steering Committee (RDSSC) Report on
Proposed Amendments to the City’s Residential Development Standards (Title 17
of the RPVMC) (1801 x 1203)
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report and the recommendation to 1)
Congratulate and thank the Residential Development Standards Steering Committee; 2)
Refer the Residential Development Standards Steering Committee Report to the
Planning Commission for review; and, 3) Direct staff and the Planning Commission to
reexamine the issues raised by Council regarding the Steering Committee’s
recommendations.
On behalf of the Council, Mayor Wolowicz thanked and commended Senior Planner
Mihranian for his impressive efforts in this process.
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 10 of 16
Councilman Gardiner stated that it is not clear to him how many properties will be
affected by the change in setbacks, the scale being impacted, or the practical
implication of an increase in setback and when it would matter.
City Attorney Lynch noted for Councilman Gardiner that if a permitted structure already
has encroached into a required setback, it would be considered a legal, nonconforming
structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that if at some point a property owner proposes an
addition/remodel to a structure that exceeds 50 percent of the original building, for
example, the Code requires that any nonconformity be brought to conformity with the
current Code, except in terms of nonconforming setbacks.
Councilman Gardiner questioned if limiting someone’s ability to use their property
through development standards would be considered a taking.
City Attorney Lynch explained that a property owner could allege a taking, but noted
that court cases say that if someone has a substantial use of their property, the fact that
they might not necessarily be able to completely develop another portion of it would not
be a taking; in other words, if they have a house, they are considered to have full use of
their lot and property, and would not be asked to dedicate their lot for some other
purpose.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
Mayor Wolowicz recessed the meeting at 9:02 PM and reconvened the meeting at 9:11
PM.
Councilman Gardiner stated that page 17 of the staff report indicates if one owns a
corner lot, they are allowed to have a 6-foot fence along the street side property line, but
that the proposed code would require the wall on that corner lot to be reduced to 42
inches in height; and he stated that he is not in support of that requirement because of
privacy issues. He expressed his belief that Council should send this item to the
Planning Commission for further refinement.
Mayor pro tem Long mentioned that the concept of square footage limitations tied to lot
size has been a tool increasingly employed by a number of cities to deal with
mansionization; he expressed his belief that the Committee rejected this issue too
quickly without further study or direction to staff to further study the possibility of
implementing such a limitation here; and stated that this is something that needs
multiple tools to better control increased density. He noted his desire to see the
Planning Commission study the concept of square footage limitations based on lot size,
on buildable area of a lot, or some formula that makes sense; to study it in a more
rigorous way than this Committee was able to do; and to provide Council with an
independent recommendation on that issue as well as look at what other cities have
done in this regard, why they’ve done it, and what the advantages/disadvantages are.
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 11 of 16
He asked that staff distribute to Council the full minutes and full report related to the
square footage limitation issue from the deliberations of the Committee, so that each
Council Member can make a decision; and if enough Council members agree, that
Council could ask the Planning Commission to look at this issue.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that staff will summarize that discussion and give the
background information to the Planning Commission.
Councilman Clark noted, echoed by Councilman Stern, his support to send the
Committee’s report to the Planning Commission for refinement, noting that the
Commission should take the appropriate amount of time to study the proposals.
Mayor pro tem Long stated it is incumbent upon Council to guide the Planning
Commission on which items need further study, believing that it would over burden the
Planning Commission if the majority of the Council does not have an issue with all 18
topics covered in the report.
Councilman Clark stated the Planning Commission should review the recommendations
in a comprehensive manner, noting that he does not want to provide direction that may
cloud the Planning Commission’s objective input.
Councilman Gardiner suggested that this matter be continued to the next City Council
meeting to allow each Council Member an opportunity to take a look at the list and
digest the information, and to then provide staff a list of issues each member feels
needs further attention. He stated that the Planning Commission should be given some
direction rather than an ambiguous charge.
Karl Price, Rancho Palos Verdes, requested and received from staff further definition on
the new single-family residence 50-percent expansion rule.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that the proposed criteria is taken from the criteria that
is current applied to the entire City; noting that if a property owner was to tear down an
existing structure, calculating 50 percent or more of the combined linear square footage
of all exterior and interior walls, it would be considered a new residence and would have
to comply with the new standards.
Mr. Price stated that the proposal for the Miravista Neighborhood is confusing and noted
his concern with how this may negatively impact on-street parking, noting that parking is
limited in his particular neighborhood; and noted his support to enhance properties, but
stated this deserves further analysis from different angles.
Ken Dyda, Rancho Palos Verdes, commended Senior Planner Mihranian’s dedication
and professionalism during the Committee’s effort. He stated that if one looks at the
existing code in terms of the percentage of the lot one is allowed to build on, the
percentage is always less than the property remaining after subtracting the side, front
and rear setbacks. He stated that the problem of creating an issue for a property owner
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 12 of 16
with rear or side setback is about location, not of size; and explained that the intent of
the Committee was to take a look at those things they thought would need to be
revisited from the original code without creating an undue hardship for the residents.
He stated that the overall square footage is a problem, but they’ve got a percentage of
lot coverage one is allowed; noting that the problem only would occur if one uses that
percentage on a 2-acre parcel, for example; that if a property owner used that same
percentage and complied with the current setbacks, they can build a huge structure on
such a lot; and that to some extent, Mayor pro tem Long’s concern needs to be looked
at for the larger properties. He stated the chart included in the staff report identified all
the issues.
Mayor pro tem Long pointed out that Mr. Dyda and Lois Karp dutifully attended all the
meetings and put in an enormous amount of time on this effort; and he expressed his
gratitude to everyone who participated in this effort.
Councilman Stern stated that this should go to the Planning Commission without a lot of
direction; and noted his desire to minimize unintended consequences/ results of these
potential changes.
Mayor Wolowicz noted his support to send this to the Planning Commission with a belief
that all items need to be addressed at once because each item impacts related issues.
Councilman Clark moved, seconded by Councilman Stern, to congratulate the
Committee on its tremendous work effort the past couple years; to send this to the
Planning Commission for its comprehensive summary review and ultimate input back to
City Council in the areas where recommendations are being requested, as well as
comments on other areas that did not have recommended changes to the Development
Code; request that staff and the Planning Commission look at the issue of size limitation
on residential structures on residential lots, taking into account prior lessons learned;
and to research how other communities have successfully tackled this issue.
Councilman Gardiner stated that he would be opposed to the motion because it has
only incorporated one Council Member’s comments and reservations in the instructions
for the Planning Commission and had not included his concerns.
Councilman Clark stated that was not his intent and amended his motion to also have
the specific comments made by any of the City Council this evening included in the
report to the Planning Commission by the Director of Planning and the lead staff
member as they embark upon this review.
Councilman Gardiner highlighted the following issues included in the staff report that he
would like the Planning Commission to address: page 16, not to recommend excluding
driveways for a flagged lot; page 17, Fences, Walls, Hedges, provide more detail on
why corner lots should not be permitted 6-foot fences instead of the proposed 42
inches, noting his support for 6-foot fences; page 19, the need for clarification on the
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City Council Minutes
August 1, 2006
Page 13 of 16
first item; and page 19, define “respect adjacent properties” and how to measure and
enforce it.
Mayor pro tem Long volunteered to review the summary and assist in polishing its
presentation.
Without objection to the motion, Mayor Wolowicz so ordered.
Councilman Clark departed the meeting at 10:07 P.M.
Moisture Remediation at Hesse Park (1201 x 1101)
The staff report of August 1, 2006 recommended City Council 1) Authorize staff to
conduct an informal bid process to complete the proposed Interior Moisture
Remediation Work Plan at Hesse Park for a total cost not to exceed $9,000; 2)
Authorize staff to conduct a formal bid process to complete the proposed Exterior
Moisture Remediation Work Plan at Hesse Park for a total cost not to exceed $50,000;
and 3) ADOPT RESOLUTION NO. 2006-59, A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF
RANCHO PALOS VERDES AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 2006-41, THE BUDGET
APPROPRIATION FOR FISCAL YEAR 2006-07, FOR A BUDGET ADJUSTMENT TO
THE BUILDING REPLACEMENT FUND.
Councilman Gardiner moved, seconded by Mayor pro tem Long, to waive staff report
and to approve staff recommendation. Motion carried as follows:
AYES: Gardiner, Long, Stern and Mayor Wolowicz
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Clark
City Manager Recruitment (1101)
The staff report of August 1, 2006 recommended City Council: 1) Select Avery and
Associates to conduct the recruitment for a new City Manager; 2) Direct the City
Manager and City Attorney to prepare an appropriate professional services contract;
and 3) Direct staff to bring the contract back for Council approval.
Mayor Wolowicz advised the public that the City Council interviewed three executive
search firms for the recruitment of a new City Manager; noted that Council did not take
a vote following those interviews; and mentioned that the proposed fees of each firm
were in a similar range.
Councilman Stern mentioned that all three firms were very qualified.
Assistant City Manager/City Clerk Petru distributed the ballots.
IS-144
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Residential Development Standards code amendment and zone change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Associate Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining the remaining issues to
discuss are tandem parking spaces in garages and considering allowing tandem
parking in the Mira Vista Overlay District. He explained that the Committee had
recommended permitting tandem parking spaces, however staff recommended
permitting tandem parking spaces only for enclosed off-street parking spaces in excess
of the minimum code requirements. He also explained that in regards to the Mira Vista
Overlay District, staff agrees that the unique circumstances of the Mira Vista area
makes it the one area of the City where tandem parking should be allowed to satisfy the
minimum off-street parking requirements, thereby allowing property owners to provide
additional off-street parking without having to demolish a significant portion of their
existing residences. Staff is also suggesting allowing the construction of new detached
garages to encroach into the 15-foot rear setback as another means to increase off-
street parking in the neighborhood.
Vice Chairman Gerstner asked if the City currently specifically prohibits tandem parking
for non-required spaces.
Associate Planner Fox answered that the City does not currently prohibit tandem
parking. However, he noted that there was an interpretation procedure in 2002 where
the Director made an interpretation that tandem parking was only allowed for surplus
parking spaces.
Commissioner Perestam moved to adopt staff’s revised recommendation
regarding tandem parking, seconded by Vice Chairman Gerstner. The motion
was approved without objection.
Commissioner Knight referred to page 12 of the staff report, item No. 8, which
discusses driveways adjacent to the property line and the need for a minimum 18 inch
landscape area between the property line and adjacent driveway. He discussed
properties in the city where it would not be possible to conform to this code and asked
staff how those would be handled.
Associate Planner Fox explained that in those cases they could be considered legal
non-conforming, or if they want to do improvements they could apply for a Variance or a
Minor Exception Permit.
Associate Planner Fox continued to the recommendations from the Committee in terms
of fences, walls, and hedges. He explained the three recommendations made by the
Committee as outlined in the staff report. He explained that staff is recommending
modifying a committee recommendation to allow for 6-foot tall fences, walls, and
hedges at the street side property line of corner lots rather than at the setback line.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 10 IS-145
Staff felt this would be most equitable to corner lots and reduce the number of
nonconformities that were created when the code language was last amended in 1997.
Vice Chairman Gerstner supported staff’s recommendation to allow the fence, wall, or
hedge at the property line, as he felt that recommendation is more consistent with what
is already happening in the City. He did not feel this would create any compromise to
the street and would allow residents on corner lots much more flexibility.
Commissioner Perestam stated that the City has been enforcing the reduction of walls
along the property line for quite some time, and to now allow a 6-foot wall out to the
street seems to be in conflict with what the City is currently trying to enforce. He felt it
was more appropriate to allow corner lots a 6-foot wall at the setback line rather than
the street line.
Commissioner Knight acknowledged that corner lots are at a disadvantage, but was not
sure he agreed with the 6-foot allowance at the property line.
Vice Chairman Gerstner moved to adopt staff’s recommendation regarding the 6-
foot fence, wall or hedge on the corner lot at the property line, rather than the
committee’s recommendation to allow the 6-foot fence, wall, or hedge to the
setback line, seconded by Chairman Lewis. The motion was approved, (4-2) with
Commissioners Knight and Perestam dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox continued with the next issue regarding hedges. He explained
that the committee’s recommendation was to discontinue the use of the “barrier” test as
part of the definition of what constitutes a hedge. He stated that staff disagrees with the
recommendation, explaining that the definition of a hedge is that it is foliage that creates
a physical barrier and the determination of whether a hedge is a barrier is important
because if it is a barrier the historical premise of the Development Code is to treat a
hedge the same way fences and walls are treated. He also noted that redefining
hedges to allow the consideration of view impact below the 16 foot level would be
contrary to Proposition M. Therefore, staff recommends the Planning Commission
reject the committee’s recommendation and continue to use the “barrier” test to define a
hedge.
Director Rojas added that there are instances where a wall of shrubs has been planted
that impairs a view or is too high. The foliage owner will go in and trim between each
plant so that a person can walk between each tree, but there is a wall of shrubs still
blocking a neighbor’s view. He explained that if one had individual trees that were
planted in that way that formed a canopy that are connected, anything over 16 feet in
height would be regulated by Prop M. He explained that this is one reason for staff’s
recommendation.
Commissioner Perestam recalled that the committee was advocating a visual barrier
test rather than a physical barrier test.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 11 IS-146
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
DEFINITION OF “HEDGE”
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Definition of “Hedge”
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Discontinue the use of the so-called “barrier test” as a part of
the definition of what constitutes a hedge.
DISCUSSION Current Code language defines a hedge as “shrubbery or
trees planted and maintained in such a manner as to create a
physical barrier.” Based upon past challenges to the definition
of a hedge, the Planning Commission considered initiating a
Code Amendment to refine this definition. Staff presented this
matter to the Planning Commission in May 2004. At that time,
Staff noted that it was Staff’s practice to use a “barrier test”—
consisting of determining if a person could easily walk
between the planted shrubbery or trees—to decide if such a
planting of shrubbery or trees constituted a “hedge.” The
Planning Commission neither initiated a Code Amendment nor
directed Staff to discontinue the use the “barrier test”
procedure. However, the RDSSC wished to codify that Staff’s
“barrier test” was not to be used to determine whether or not a
planting of shrubbery or trees was a hedge.
Staff respectfully disagreed with the Committee’s recom-
mendation. The critical aspect of the definition of a “hedge” is
that it creates a physical barrier. The determination of
whether or not a hedge is a barrier is important because if it is
a barrier, the historical premise of the Development Code is to
treat the hedge the same as a fence or wall. In other words, if
a hedge is a barrier, it is regulated based upon that fact, which
should be no different than the standard applied to other
barriers such as fences or walls. As such, Staff believed that
the creation of a physical barrier should continue to be the
basis for determining if foliage constitutes a hedge.
It may be unfortunate that property owners “take advantage”
of this situation to avoid a Fence, Wall and Hedge Permit by
keeping foliage open enough at ground level to allow passage
and not create a physical barrier, but dense enough at higher
elevations to affect views. However, Proposition ‘M’ prevents
the City from regulating foliage below the 16-foot height limit
with respect to view impacts, so redefining hedges to allow
consideration of view impacts below the 16-foot level would be
contrary to Proposition ‘M’. Therefore, Staff recommended
rejecting the RDSSC recommendation.
IS-147
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 2
ATTACHMENTS Definitions of a “hedge” from the Development Code and
Dictionary.com
Diagrams of Foliage that is not a Hedge
RDSSC Minutes of September 26, 2005 (excerpt)
RDSSC Minutes of November 14, 2005 (excerpt)
RDSSC Minutes of December 12, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009
REFERFENCES None.
IS-148
17.96.900 Hedge.
“Hedge” means shrubbery or trees planted and maintained in such a manner as to
create a physical barrier.
Dictionary.com (accessed 5/23/08)
A row of bushes or small trees planted close together, esp. when forming a fence or
boundary; hedgerow: small fields separated by hedges.
IS-149
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IS-150
September 26, 2005
Page 11 of 12
Committee Member Dyda added that beyond the building facade a solid fence or hedge
can go up to 6-feet in height.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that in this case it can go up to 16-feet in height and
then View Ordinance is triggered.
Commissioner Mueller asked what the difference between a hedge and a row of trees.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if you can easily walk between the planted shrubs
or trees then it is not considered a hedge.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern regarding the canopy of trees that cause a view
impairment but are not considered a hedge.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that if the canopy of a tree is causing a view
impairment and it exceeds 16-feet or the roof ridgeline, then the View Ordinance is
triggered.
Committee Member Slayden asked if Staff is recommending an amendment.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that Staff is not recommending an amendment to
the Code and that the Committee at its last meeting directed Staff to bring back the
City’s definition of a hedge and its practice for testing what is a hedge.
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee if there is a prevailing concern worth
amending the Code and what the concerns may be regarding enforcement.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Planning Commission reviewed this topic
nearly two years ago because of some loophole concerns, but after presenting all the
information to the Commission, as included in tonight’s agenda packet, the Committee
determined that the City’s definition and practice for testing a hedge is satisfactory.
Committee Member Lyon mentioned that the Committee should not propose to change
the definition of a hedge because it is adequately defined and the City’s practice to test
what a hedge is equally adequate. He stated that dealing with the growth of a hedge is
an enforcement matter.
Committee Member Dyda reiterated that if located within the front yard or street side
area then a fence, wall or hedge is limited to 42-inches in height. Beyond that, the view
ordinance governs when a view impairment exists above 16-feet in height or the roof
ridgeline. His concern is between 42-inches in height and the 6-foot height limit.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code regulates a hedge that is above 42-
inches in height within the front yard area, stating that a Minor Exception Permit is
required so that the hedge is 80% open to light and air. He added that beyond the
IS-151
September 26, 2005
Page 12 of 12
building facade, a solid wall can be constructed at 6-feet in height by right without
having to be 80% open to light and air.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that in light of Staff’s clarification that there is no need to
amend the Code and no action is necessary. He asked for Committee comments.
There were no Committee comments.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Beverly Rhodes described the trees located on her neighbor’s property that exceed 16-
feet in height and exceed the highest roof ridgeline.
Committee Member Dyda noted that it is a View Ordinance matter.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked if there is a view impairment.
Mrs. Rhodes stated that there is no view.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the View Ordinance is designed to address view
impacts.
ADJOURNMENT
Councilman Wolowicz indicated that the agenda topic on the Portuguese Bend Club
Overlay District be continued to the next meeting.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adjourn the meeting.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
The meeting adjourned at 9:17 p.m.
IS-152
November 14, 2005
Page 9 of 13
Committee wrap-up meeting would be held at the end of February. He stated that the
Committee’s final recommendation will likely be presented to the Council at a joint
meeting with the Planning Commission in early Spring 2006.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to proceed with the tentative timeline and then asked
Staff to present the next agenda item.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the next agenda item on the hedge illustration
submitted by Committee Member Cartwright. He briefly explained the Code definition of
a hedge and the City’s practice for determining a hedge. Referring to the illustration, he
stated that Staff researched the address file and learned that the wall was approved in
the mid 1980’s. As for the vegetation, he stated that because the crown was
approximately 4-feet in height, it would be considered a hedge because the average
person could not easily walk through it.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that the home across the street has a pool within
the front yard with a 42-inch high wall and a wrought fence on top of the wall for a
combined height of 6-feet.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that such a combined wall and fence is permitted if the
findings for a Minor Exception Permit could be made. He then explained the criteria for
making the findings.
Committee Member Dyda asked if a Minor Exception Permit to exceed 42-inches in
height for fences applies to foliage along a fence.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded no.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is something as a result of this situation that
warranted a code amendment.
Senior Planner Mihranian did not think so because the current Code would not allow the
situation in the illustration to occur. He stated that this situation would likely be an
enforcement matter.
Councilman Wolowicz then asked about enforcement because hedges continue to
grow, noting that when the vegetation was first planted it was likely in compliance but
eventually grew to be in violation. He asked, absent from complaints filled by
neighbors, how does the City address enforcement matters.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that because of personnel limitations enforcement
is not proactive but rather reactive. He added that the City does not have Staff to
inspect violations and therefore relies on neighbor complaints.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern with the definition of a hedge stating that with a
little trimming this illustration can go from a hedge to not a hedge.
IS-153
November 14, 2005
Page 10 of 13
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with the practice of using an average
person being able to walk through a row of vegetation as the determination of what is a
hedge.
Commissioner Gerstner questioned whether the ultimate goal to limiting the height of
vegetation within the front yard is to see the front of a house.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the reason why fences, walls and hedges
within the front yard area are limited to 42-inches is to provide an open feel between the
street and the front facade and to increase the visibility of a home, noting that aesthetics
weighs heavily on this requirement.
Commissioner Gerstner mentioned that the reason is not stated clearly in the Code.
Councilman Wolowicz noted that is why he advocates purpose statements within the
Code so that a reader can understand the intent of the requirement.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the issue is if the plantings creates a visual barrier
then it should be considered a hedge regardless of height. It should have nothing to do
with whether you can walk through it or not. He added that hedges are growing walls
and that the definition should account for that. He suggested that the definition be
modified to read “if the foliage from the plantings creates a contiguous visual barrier
then such plantings are considered a hedge.”
Councilman Wolowicz asked the Committee if the definition of what a hedge is should
include a statement of intent.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated his concern that the definition needs to be
modified.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the City is very critical of what the front of a house
looks like but then does not want landscaping that may obstruct the structure’s facade.
In other words, the City wants to see landscaping providing it does not exceed the
height of one’s knee nor can it exceed the top of one’s head because it blocks part of
the house.
Committee Member Dyda stated that his concern is when you have a row of planting
that creates a visual barrier it is a hedge. He stated that you could still have a tree
within the front yard.
Commissioner Gerstner provided an example of trees planted throughout the yard that
obstructs portions of the building facade.
Commissioner Perestam asked for clarification on the use of the words “visual” and
“physical” barriers when referring to hedges.
IS-154
November 14, 2005
Page 11 of 13
Committee Member Lyon suggested adding the words “physical or visual” to the hedge
definition of Code.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked how would one define a “visual” barrier.
Committee Member Dyda suggested using the fence criteria of 80% open to light and
air. He stated that the criteria is to avoid a contiguous barrier, that way you can still
have a tree within the front yard.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a motion.
Committee Member Dyda moved to amend the definition of a hedge to include the
words “contiguous visual barrier.”
Committee Member Cartwright second the motion.
Commissioner Perestam asked what problems are we solving or preventing by
amending the definition.
Committee Member Cartwright responded view impairment.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that the discussion of view impairment is reserved for a
different content of the Code. He then asked if the word “visual” is used in the definition
would that lead to a different application process.
Commissioner Gerstner expressed a concern that many homes throughout the City
have trees within the front and side that obstructs the structure which in essence would
not be permitted if the Code definition of a hedge were modified because such trees
create a visual barrier. He cited examples of neighborhoods throughout the City that
have mature vegetation that are essential to the character of the neighborhood.
Committee Member Dyda asked what the difference was between planting a vegetation
that can grow up to 16-feet tall and create a visual barrier, to a 16-foot tall solid wall.
Senior Planner Mihranian reminded the Committee that the Code limits fences, walls
and hedges to 42-inches from the street property line to the closest building facade. He
added vegetation that grows above 16-feet in height is subject to the view ordinance.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that in light of the discussion that Staff bring back
additional information on questions asked this evening. He requested that Committee
Members contact Staff with additional comments or concerns for discussion at the next
meeting. He asked for clarification of the intent of the ordinance as it pertains to visual
or view impairment. He reminded the Committee that there is a motion on the floor and
suggested that the discussion on the motion be continued to the next meeting. He
requested that Staff bring back information to the next meeting on the specific issues
and the intent behind the issues, and what is accomplished with such an amendment.
IS-155
November 14, 2005
Page 12 of 13
Councilman Wolowicz asked for Committee input on the topic relating to City
enforcement. He stated that the City now reacts to complaints filed by neighbors and
was wondering whether the City should be more proactive in identifying Code violations.
Committee Member Lyon responded that is a decision to be made by the Council and
added that if that were done there would be many unhappy constituents.
Councilman Wolowicz raised a concern that without enforcement the regulations
enacted by the City may be overlooked. He stated that as Council member, he receives
numerous communications from residents who do not want to file a compliant but want
the City to take action.
Committee Member Cartwright agreed with Councilman Wolowicz but raised a concern
with the outcome of proactive enforcement.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the City has any further responsibility to take action on
entitlements that have been inspected and finalized.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that the City has one Code Enforcement Officer and
a Building Official. He added that the City has a team of inspectors who inspect
construction activities. He noted that in the case of the illustration example submitted
by Committee Member Cartwright, the violation would be addressed by the City when a
complaint is filed. He stated that the City does not police neighborhoods looking for
violations because of limited staff and resources, and is therefore reactive to a
complaint. He added that this is a common practice for small municipalities.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the City should be dedicating the resources for such
enforcement personnel and is looking for the Committee to either support or deny the
concept of increasing the resources for such Staff personnel. If there is a need for it,
then the Council should consider the matter.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the burden is on the property owner affected by
the violation that is why they file a complaint with the City.
Commissioner Mueller asked if a complaint filled is anonymous.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that all code enforcement complaints require a
name and address to be filed with the complaint but is anonymous unless the case goes
to litigation at which time the complainants name may be revealed.
Councilman Wolowicz asked that Staff come back to the next meeting with an answer
as to whether there is a need to be proactive in seeking violations, and if not, why. He
asked what is the purpose for having Codes if they cannot be enforced.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that there is a process for enforcing the Code.
IS-156
December 12, 2005
Page 2 of 12
The motion passed without objection.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next item on the agenda pertaining to the
definition of a hedge. He indicated that at the November 14th meeting, the Committee
requested that this matter be continued to tonight’s meeting so that Staff can further
investigate the application of the definition of a hedge. Mr. Mihranian presented the
Committee with information pertaining to hedges as it relates to a physical / visual
barrier. He reminded the Committee that at the November 14th meeting a suggested
change was made to the definition of a hedge by adding the words “contiguous visual
barrier.”
Committee Member Dyda raised a concern with defining a hedge based on two different
criteria. He stated that a hedge is a barrier whether physical or visual. He suggested
eliminating the current test of a hedge.
Councilman Long indicated that the regulations for the height of a wall and the height of
a hedge is not intended to allow a greater height by combining the two. He then
referred to the trees on his property indicating that although staggered when the
canopies overlap it would create a hedge.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that the definition states “planted and maintained” and if
vegetation is planted in a staggered manner but not maintained to be a hedge then the
argument would be that it is not a hedge. He stated that a forest is not a hedge but
meets the same criteria as presently being discussed.
Commissioner Denton indicated that it appears the issue relates to a height factor
explaining that what is unclear in the definition is that portion of the foliage that is above
5-feet. She stated that rather than changing the definition, a maximum height limit
should be established.
Committee Member Cartwright clarified that he is not proposing to change the definition
of a hedge but rather the test. He then referred to an illustration of a neighbor’s
wall/hedge indicating that at one time the foliage in front of the wall reached 14-feet in
height.
Commissioner Gerstner asked whether the foliage in Mr. Cartwright’s illustration
impaired a view.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that the foliage blocked ocean and Catalina views
from the neighbor’s home.
Councilman Long asked whether the wall was legally constructed.
IS-157
December 12, 2005
Page 3 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that under the current Code such a wall could not be
built without processing a Minor Modification Permit, however, at the time the wall was
constructed it was permitted by the old Code.
Committee Member Slayden questioned whether the Committee should be reviewing
this criteria because the foliage is used for screening and privacy.
Committee Member Dyda stated that if the Committee does not address this matter how
would the City be able to address complaints filed by residents.
Councilman Wolowicz raised the concern with enforcement of hedges. He noted that
aside from view related issues a hedge typically starts of in compliance with the Code
and then evolves into not being in compliance. He questioned the City’s role in
enforcing Codes and noted that the City does enforce the Code unless a resident
complains which is considered the triggering mechanism. He added that it is not the
City’s responsibility to initiate the enforcement but that is not specified in the Code and
does not think that is fair to the public. He noted that as a councilman, he receives
numerous inquiries on enforcement matters. The response that the City is not proactive
but rather reactive to resident complaints is not typically satisfactory to residents.
Committee Member Karp stated that the Code limits the height of a wall within the front
yard to 42-inches, then why can you have a 6-foot tall hedge. She asked what is the
recourse when a complaint is filed with the City.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that according to the Code, a fence, wall or hedge
cannot exceed 42-inches in height within the defined front yard area. He stated that if a
complaint is filed, then the City would investigate the matter by first determining whether
the foliage in question meets the test of a hedge.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that if a resident does not file a complaint then nothing
happens.
Committee Member Cartwright indicated that is the case throughout the City for other
enforcement matters. He added that the City only has one code enforcement officer
and that person is not driving around the City looking for violations but rather addressing
the complaints filed with the City.
Committee Member Denton raised a concern that reactive enforcement results in
situation that puts neighbor against neighbor. Aside from hiring additional City Staff she
was not sure how to address this matter.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the Code is written in a manner that is subject to
interpretation. He stated that if the City were proactive, just on the matter regarding
hedges, you could keep tree trimmers busy for years stating that there are Code
violations on several properties throughout the City. He noted that in some
neighborhoods hedges and mature foliage is desired.
IS-158
December 12, 2005
Page 4 of 12
Councilman Long commented that the City does not have the funding to be proactive
either now or in the near future. He added that enforcement is a separate discussion
matter on the agenda.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the public will always turn to the letter of the law
and find a way to circumvent the rules. He added that the definition of a hedge is fine
but it is the test that needs to be re-evaluated. In terms of enforcement, he does not
want the City to become a police state. He stated that the public needs to understand
the process for filing an enforcement complaint, such as writing a newsletter article. He
would like the rules to specify the intent, such as a preamble.
Committee Member Cartwright reiterated that the matter in question involves a physical
barrier that is between the front property line and a residence that exceeds 11-feet in
height and is maintained in a manner that is a hedge. He would like to eliminate the test
requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian raised a concern that if you eliminate the test requirement
how to do you explain to the public what is a physical barrier.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that if foliage is maintained or sculptured in the form of a
wall then it is a hedge.
Councilman Long stated that if a hedge looks like a wall then it should be treated as a
wall.
Committee Member Denton raised a concern with foliage that is staggered.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that if foliage is planted in random or staggered manner
and grows into one another than that type of planting should not be considered a hedge
because it is not maintained in manner to create a barrier.
Committee Member Denton stated that the foliage in this scenario essential forms a
physical barrier and should be considered a hedge.
Councilman Long stated you know what a hedge is when you see it and it is never
100% precise. He added that in this case what persuades him to consider it a hedge is
that it is designed to evade both the rules against hedges and wall heights.
Committee Member Cartwright stated that when foliage is planted in a random manner
then views are going to differ depending on the viewing corridor.
Committee Member Slayden moved to accept Staff’s recommendation to not
include the words “and contiguous visual barrier” in the definition of a hedge and
to eliminate the test.
Councilman Wolowicz seconded the motion.
IS-159
December 12, 2005
Page 5 of 12
Senior Planner Mihranian expressed a concern with the elimination of the test. He
questioned how one would verbally express what a physical barrier is without the test.
He stated that the current Code regulates the height of fences, walls and hedges to 42-
inches between the front property line and the closest building facade and that the test
enables the City to clearly inform the public on the process for determining what is a
hedge.
Councilman Long stated that the determination of a hedge should not be based on
height and whether a person can or cannot walk through it. He stated that the current
definition is sufficient.
Councilman Wolowicz requested that this topic be discussed as a Mayor’s did you know
fact at a future Council meeting and wants to make certain this topic is clearly
understood by the public.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked that if the test is eliminated how do we address
determinations that have been made thus far.
Councilman Long stated that the determinations that have been made by the City are
grand-fathered because rulings have already been made. The change to the Code is
prospective.
Committee Member Dyda stated that if a new complaint is filed with the City then it
should be addressed based on the criteria at the time the complaint is filed.
Councilman Long asked for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed without objection.
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next agenda item on proposed amendments to
the Neighborhood Compatibility Handbook in order to clarify that the analysis for
compatibility is based on the front, sides, and rear of a project.
Councilman Wolowicz asked whether language should be included that distinguishes
the level of importance between the front, sides or rear of a project.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that according to Circle Page 18, language is
proposed to be added that states the emphasis of a project will be given from where the
project is most visible, which in some cases may be the rear facade. He added that the
intent here is to let the public know that the analysis for neighborhood compatibility is
not limited to the front or street facing facade, but the sides and rear facades as well.
Commissioner Gerstner asked how is “most visible” defined.
Councilman Long responded that “most visible” should be taken from the most affected
properties.
IS-160
relied upon to accurately determine this and therefore it is recommended the City
Council and Coastal Commission take the action necessary to address the situation,
and then continue on to the recently modified language in Section 3. This would say
that the land use map is the official map and the one to be relied upon until the situation
is remedied. However, it is also saying that the Commission feels the map has
inaccuracies in it based upon its large scale. Therefore this map is the map to be used
in the interim and the Commission is recommending the interim be as short a period as
possible.
Commissioner Knight felt that if the Commission were to go with the recommendation
that a site specific geology report be used, that a separate section is needed in the
Resolution that says if a geology report is presented that is in conflict with the maps,
then the applicant can go forward with a zone change application and a coastal setback
change application process.
Commissioner Ruttenberg moved to modify Section 1 of the Resolution to read:
“The Planning Commission finds that the large scale of the zoning map and the
maps that are set forth in the City’s local Coastal Plan cannot be relied upon to
accurately determine the location of the coastal setback line on individual
properties and recommends that the City Council and Coastal Commission
address the situation.” Section 2 would then be eliminated and Section 3 would
be changed to Section 2 and would read: “However because the local coastal
plan does not currently specific the process and maps that will be used to
determine the location of the coastal setback line on individual properties, the
Planning Commission concurs that due to the variation in location of the coastal
setback line on different city maps, until the issue can be further clarified by
amending the LCP, the location of the CSL on properties shall be based on a site
specific geologic study and the Coastal Specific Plan map.” The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Perestam. Approved, (4-2-1) with Commissioner
Knight and Chairman Lewis dissenting and Commissioner Tomblin abstaining.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Residential Development Standards code amendment and zone change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377)
Chairman Lewis opened the public hearing.
Jay Hatefi stated that shrubs, hedges and plants are the only defense residents have
against heavy smoke coming out of the tailpipes of cars and trucks going up the street.
He stated he lives on a very busy street where the street and house level are the same
and is constantly bombarded with dust and dirt from the street. Cutting the level of the
hedges and walls will create a very bad problem for many residents.
Chairman Lewis tabled the item to hear the view restoration case.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 6 IS-161
Staff felt this would be most equitable to corner lots and reduce the number of
nonconformities that were created when the code language was last amended in 1997.
Vice Chairman Gerstner supported staff’s recommendation to allow the fence, wall, or
hedge at the property line, as he felt that recommendation is more consistent with what
is already happening in the City. He did not feel this would create any compromise to
the street and would allow residents on corner lots much more flexibility.
Commissioner Perestam stated that the City has been enforcing the reduction of walls
along the property line for quite some time, and to now allow a 6-foot wall out to the
street seems to be in conflict with what the City is currently trying to enforce. He felt it
was more appropriate to allow corner lots a 6-foot wall at the setback line rather than
the street line.
Commissioner Knight acknowledged that corner lots are at a disadvantage, but was not
sure he agreed with the 6-foot allowance at the property line.
Vice Chairman Gerstner moved to adopt staff’s recommendation regarding the 6-
foot fence, wall or hedge on the corner lot at the property line, rather than the
committee’s recommendation to allow the 6-foot fence, wall, or hedge to the
setback line, seconded by Chairman Lewis. The motion was approved, (4-2) with
Commissioners Knight and Perestam dissenting.
Associate Planner Fox continued with the next issue regarding hedges. He explained
that the committee’s recommendation was to discontinue the use of the “barrier” test as
part of the definition of what constitutes a hedge. He stated that staff disagrees with the
recommendation, explaining that the definition of a hedge is that it is foliage that creates
a physical barrier and the determination of whether a hedge is a barrier is important
because if it is a barrier the historical premise of the Development Code is to treat a
hedge the same way fences and walls are treated. He also noted that redefining
hedges to allow the consideration of view impact below the 16 foot level would be
contrary to Proposition M. Therefore, staff recommends the Planning Commission
reject the committee’s recommendation and continue to use the “barrier” test to define a
hedge.
Director Rojas added that there are instances where a wall of shrubs has been planted
that impairs a view or is too high. The foliage owner will go in and trim between each
plant so that a person can walk between each tree, but there is a wall of shrubs still
blocking a neighbor’s view. He explained that if one had individual trees that were
planted in that way that formed a canopy that are connected, anything over 16 feet in
height would be regulated by Prop M. He explained that this is one reason for staff’s
recommendation.
Commissioner Perestam recalled that the committee was advocating a visual barrier
test rather than a physical barrier test.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 11 IS-162
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 12
Chairman Lewis agreed with staff’s recommendation that a physical barrier test was
more appropriate, and the Commission unanimously agreed.
Associate Planner Fox continued explaining there is a list of streets that back up to
major streets where the City does not allow chicken wire, chain line, or fiberglass
fences. Palos Verdes Drive West is not included on that list, and the recommendation
of the Committee is to add Palos Verdes Drive West to that list.
The Planning Commission unanimously agreed with the recommendation to add Palos
Verdes Drive West to the list.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the last issue was a staff recommendation that would
allow six-foot fences and walls outside of the front setback area.
The Commission unanimously agreed with staff’s recommendation.
Associate Planner Fox explained that staff will now compile all of the recommendations
into one Resolution and present the Resolution to the Planning Commission at a future
meeting.
The Commission agreed to continue the public hearing to October 13, 2009 without
objection.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of July 28, 2009
Commissioner Perestam moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Vice Chairman Gerstner. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Knight
abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
5. Pre-Agenda for the meeting of September 22, 2009
No changes
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:10 p.m.
IS-163
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
CHAIN-LINK FENCING ALONG P.V. DR. W.
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Chain-Link Fencing along Palos Verdes Drive West
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Add Palos Verdes Drive West to the list of major arterials
where the use of chain-link, chicken-wire and fiberglass
fencing is prohibited.
DISCUSSION Section 17.76.030(E)(5) prohibits the use of chain link,
chicken wire and fiberglass fences within the rear yards of
properties abutting most of the City’s major arterial streets.
The purpose of this regulation is to protect the aesthetic
quality of the City’s major thoroughfares. However, the list of
streets does not currently include Palos Verdes Drive West.
Therefore, the RDSSC recommends revising Section
17.76.030(E)(5) as follows (additions bold and underlined,
deletions struck out):
5. Chain link, chicken wire and fiberglass fences are
prohibited in front yards between the front property
line and the exterior facade of the existing single-
family residence closest to the front property line; in
side yards between the street side property line and
the exterior facade of the existing single-family
residence closest to the street side property line; and
within a rear yard setback which abuts the following
arterial streets identified in the city’s general plan:
a. Crenshaw Boulevard;
b. Crest Road;
c. Hawthorne Boulevard;
d. Highridge Road;
e. Miraleste Drive;
f. Palos Verdes Drive East;
g. Palos Verdes Drive North;
h. Palos Verdes Drive South; and
i. Palos Verdes Drive West; and,
j i. Silver Spur Road.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENT(S) RDSSC Minutes of September 26, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCE Section 14 of Draft Ordinance
IS-164
September 26, 2005
Page 9 of 12
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt Staff’s recommendation to amend the
fence, wall and hedge requirement for corner lots to read as follows: “Fences,
walls and hedges located between the from property line and the exterior facade
of the existing single-family residence closest to the front property line or
between the street side property line and the street side setback requirement, as
defined in Section 17.02, shall meet the following standards…”
Committee Member Slayden seconded the motion.
Commissioner Mueller stated that this change allows a fence, wall or hedge to be built
closer to the street.
The motion passed with Commissioner Mueller objecting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff to continue with its next recommended amendment.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that based on an error identified by the Committee at
the last meeting, the Code section prohibiting chain link, chicken wire, and fiber glass
fences along property lines abutting major arterial roads, Staff is recommending adding
Palos Verdes Drive West to the list which was inadvertently left out.
Committee Member Karp raised a concern with fencing that is prohibited on private
property but is allowed on City owned property.
Committee Member Dyda stated that the criteria difference is based on aesthetic value
and costs.
Committee Member Slayden moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendment to
Section 17.76.030(E)(5) by adding Palos Verdes Drive West to the list.
Committee Member Dyda seconded the motion.
Commissioner Gerstner informed the Committee that chicken wire is now referred to as
poultry netting.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that fences placed on City owned property is a Public
Works matter. He added that this Committee should not review such fence
requirements as it is beyond the Committee’s scope of work that is to review residential
development standards. He suggested that the Committee recommend to the City
Council that they review the fence criteria on City owned property as a separate matter.
The Committee agreed to recommend to the Council to review the type of fencing
permitted on City owned properties.
IS-165
September 26, 2005
Page 10 of 12
Councilman Wolowicz asked whether the City should consider a uniform fence/wall
program along major arterial streets.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that such a program was discussed in prior years.
Committee Member Dyda said that there was a proposal years ago to develop a
Fence/Wall Plan along major arterial streets. Each neighborhood was designed to have
its own unique appearing fence/wall standard.
Committee Member Slayden stated that there was a bond that did not pass.
Committee Member Karp said that there was a beautification program for Hawthorne
Boulevard that was eventually rescinded by the Council.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that this be packaged to the Council as a Committee
recommendation for Council review as an independent matter. He asked for a vote on
the earlier motion.
The motion passed with Commissioner Mueller objecting.
Commissioner Mueller expressed a concern that the Code section implies that a solid
block wall should be constructed along major arterial streets which has the potential to
impair views from neighboring properties.
Senior Planner Mihranian continued his presentation by defining a hedge according to
the Development Code as shrubbery or trees planted and maintained in such a manner
as to create a physical barrier.
Committee Member Karp stated that because the Code defines a hedge as a physical
barrier it should be treated similar to a wall.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that a hedge is treated as a wall, in terms of height
limits, when placed within the required front yard area.
Committee Member Karp mentioned that walls and hedges should be interchangeable
because they share the same amount of light, air and height.
Committee Member Dyda stated that if a fence or wall is limited to 42-inches within the
front yard area so should a hedge.
Senior Planner Mihranian reminded the Committee that within the required front yard
area and street side area, the height limit for a fence, wall or hedge is 42-inches.
Anything above that up to 6-feet in height requires a Minor Exception Permit and must
be designed to be 80% open to light and air. Otherwise, anything taller than 42-inches
is in violation of the Code.
IS-166
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 12
Chairman Lewis agreed with staff’s recommendation that a physical barrier test was
more appropriate, and the Commission unanimously agreed.
Associate Planner Fox continued explaining there is a list of streets that back up to
major streets where the City does not allow chicken wire, chain line, or fiberglass
fences. Palos Verdes Drive West is not included on that list, and the recommendation
of the Committee is to add Palos Verdes Drive West to that list.
The Planning Commission unanimously agreed with the recommendation to add Palos
Verdes Drive West to the list.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the last issue was a staff recommendation that would
allow six-foot fences and walls outside of the front setback area.
The Commission unanimously agreed with staff’s recommendation.
Associate Planner Fox explained that staff will now compile all of the recommendations
into one Resolution and present the Resolution to the Planning Commission at a future
meeting.
The Commission agreed to continue the public hearing to October 13, 2009 without
objection.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of July 28, 2009
Commissioner Perestam moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Vice Chairman Gerstner. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Knight
abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
5. Pre-Agenda for the meeting of September 22, 2009
No changes
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:10 p.m.
IS-167
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
FRONT-YARD FENCE, WALL & HEDGE HEIGHT
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Front-Yard Fence, Wall & Hedge Height
STAFF
RECOMMENDATION
Limit the height of fences, walls and hedges between the front
property line and the front-yard setback line to forty-two inches
(42”) and allow 6-foot-tall fences, walls and hedges outside of
the front setback area.
DISCUSSION Current Code establishes a height of forty-two inches (42”) for
fences, walls and hedges located anywhere between a front
or street-side property line of a lot and the nearest portion of
any front or street-side facade, respectively, to said property
line. Over many years of applying this Code language, Staff
believes that it unfairly punishes properties where main
structures were built further back than the minimum setbacks
in that it prevents a minor structure like a fence or wall in
excess of forty-two inches (42”) in height in the same area of
the lot where the Code would otherwise allow construction of
a main structure up to the 16-foot “by-right” height limit.
In the previous discussion of fence and wall height in street-
side setback areas, Staff recommended modifying the RDSSC
recommendation to allow 6-foot-tall walls and fences up to the
street-side property line on corner lots, while the RDSSC only
recommended allowing such fences and walls up to the street-
side setback line. However, within front-yard areas where an
existing main structure exceeds the minimum setback, Staff
suggested an approach similar to the RDSSC’s original
recommendation, whereby a 6-foot-tall wall or fence would be
allowed up to the front-yard setback line, while fences and
walls within the front-yard setback area would still be limited to
forty-two inches (42”) in height.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept Staff’s recommendation
2. Reject Staff’s recommendation
3. Propose modifications to Staff’s recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS Staff’s Proposed Section 17.76.030(C)
Diagram of Comparative Front Setbacks for Fences, Walls
and Hedges
PC Minutes of September 8, 2009
REFERENCES Section 13 of Draft Ordinance
IS-168
Staff’s Proposed Section 17.76.030(C)
(Additions bold and underlined, deletions struck out)
C. Fences, Walls and Hedges Allowed Without a Permit. Unless restricted by
conditions imposed through a fence, wall and hedge permit pursuant to subsection B of
this section, fences, walls and hedges which meet the following requirements shall be
allowed without a permit:
1. Residential Zoning Districts.
a. Fences, walls and hedges located between the front property line and the
exterior facade of the existing single-family residence closest to the front
property line within the front-yard setback area or between the street
side property line and the existing single-family residence closest to the
street side property line shall meet the following standards:
i. Up to forty-two inches in height shall be permitted, except as
restricted by the intersection visibility requirements of Section
17.48.070 (Lots, Setbacks, Open Space Areas and Building Height)
of this title;
ii. When combined with a retaining wall, the total height may not
exceed forty-two inches, except as restricted by the intersection
visibility requirements of Section 17.48.070 (Lots, Setbacks, Open
Space Areas and Building Height) of this title; and
iii. When located within the front yard of a flag lot and the front
property line of the flag lot abuts the rear or interior side property
line of an adjacent lot, up to six feet in height shall be permitted.
b. Fences, walls and hedges not subject to subsection (C)(1)(a) of this
section shall meet the following standards:
i. Fences and walls up to six feet in height shall be permitted on any
part of a lot not subject to subsection (C)(1)(a), except as restricted
by Section 17.48.070 (Intersection visibility) of this title;
ii. Hedges up to sixteen feet in height shall be permitted on any part of
a lot not subject to subsection (C)(1)(a), except as restricted by the
view preservation and restoration provisions which apply to foliage,
as described in Chapter 17.02 (Single-family Residential Districts);
iii. When combined with a fence, freestanding wall or retaining wall,
the total height may not exceed eight feet, as measured from grade
on the lower side, and may not exceed six feet, as measured from
grade on the higher side;
iv. When combined with a fence, freestanding wall, retaining wall or
hedge, the total height may not exceed sixteen feet, as measured
from grade on the higher side and may not exceed eighteen feet,
as measured from grade on the lower side; provided, the height of
each individual fence, freestanding wall and/or retaining wall does
not exceed the height limitations prescribed by this title.
c. Temporary construction fences, as defined in Chapter 17.96 (Definitions),
up to six feet in height may be located within front or street side setback
IS-169
areas, pursuant to the temporary construction fencing provisions of
Section 17.56.020(C) (Environmental Protection) of this title.
2. Nonresidential Zoning Districts.
a. Fences, walls and hedges located between the front property line and the
exterior facade of the existing single within front and street-side setbacks
within the front-yard and street-side setback areas shall meet the
following standards:
i. Up to forty-two inches in height shall be permitted within the front or
street-side setback areas, except as restricted by the intersection
visibility requirements of Section 17.48.070 (Lots, Setbacks, Open
Space Area and Building Height) of this title.
ii. When combined with a retaining wall, the total height may not
exceed forty-two inches in the front or street-side setback areas,
except as restricted by the intersection visibility requirements of
Section 17.48.070 (Lots, Setbacks, Open Space Area and Building
Height) of this title.
b. Fences, walls and hedges located behind front and street-side setbacks
shall meet the following standards:
i. Up to six feet in height shall be permitted on any part of a lot behind
the front or street-side setback areas, except as restricted by the
intersection visibility requirements of Section 17.48.070 (Lots,
Setbacks, Open Space Area and Building Height) of this title.
ii. When combined with a retaining wall, the total height may not
exceed eight feet as measured from grade on the lower side and
may not exceed six feet as measured from grade on the higher
side.
c. Temporary construction fences, as defined in Chapter 17.96 (Definitions),
up to six feet in height may be located within front or street side setback
areas, pursuant to the temporary construction fencing provisions of
Section 17.56.020 (Environmental Protection) of this title.
IS-170
20’
Minimum
Front
Structure
Setback
25’
Existing
Building
Setback
(example)
Location of Maximum 6’-Tall
Fence/Wall/Hedge under
Current Code
Location of Maximum 6’-Tall
Fence/Wall/Hedge under
Staff’s Recommendation
5’
Street
Street
IS-171
Planning Commission Minutes
September 8, 2009
Page 12
Chairman Lewis agreed with staff’s recommendation that a physical barrier test was
more appropriate, and the Commission unanimously agreed.
Associate Planner Fox continued explaining there is a list of streets that back up to
major streets where the City does not allow chicken wire, chain line, or fiberglass
fences. Palos Verdes Drive West is not included on that list, and the recommendation
of the Committee is to add Palos Verdes Drive West to that list.
The Planning Commission unanimously agreed with the recommendation to add Palos
Verdes Drive West to the list.
Associate Planner Fox stated that the last issue was a staff recommendation that would
allow six-foot fences and walls outside of the front setback area.
The Commission unanimously agreed with staff’s recommendation.
Associate Planner Fox explained that staff will now compile all of the recommendations
into one Resolution and present the Resolution to the Planning Commission at a future
meeting.
The Commission agreed to continue the public hearing to October 13, 2009 without
objection.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of July 28, 2009
Commissioner Perestam moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Vice Chairman Gerstner. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Knight
abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
5. Pre-Agenda for the meeting of September 22, 2009
No changes
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:10 p.m.
IS-172
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
SETBACK ENCROACHMENT CLARIFICATION
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Setback Encroachment Clarification
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Break out and clarify the permitted encroachments for
architectural features, garden windows/awnings and eaves
into required setback areas
DISCUSSION Current Code language consolidates architectural features,
garden windows/awnings and eaves into a single section for
the purpose of discussing allowable projections into setback
areas. The RDSSC recommended separating these out,
since the standard for each is slightly different. Therefore, the
RDSSC recommended revising Section 17.48.030(E)(1) as
follows (additions bold and underlined, deletions struck out):
1. Architectural Features. Cornices, belt courses and
other similar architectural features may project into
the required setback area not more than four inches
for each foot of the required setback; provided, that
no portion of such an architectural feature is located
or projects below eight feet above grade; and
provided, that there are no vertical supports or
members within the required setback area. Garden
windows may project into the required setback area
not more than four inches for each foot of the required
setback; provided, that there are no vertical supports
within the required setback area. Eaves may project
into the required setback not more than six inches for
each foot of the required setback.
2. Garden Windows and Window Coverings. Garden
windows and window coverings, including
retractable awnings, may project into the required
interior side and rear year setback areas not more
than four inches for each foot of the required
setback; provided that there are no vertical
supports within the required setback area.
3. Roof Eaves. Roof eaves may project into the
required setback not more than six inches for
each foot of the required setback; provided that
there are no vertical supports within the required
setback areas. Roof eaves shall not be calculated
towards lot coverage as defined in Section
17.02.040(A)(5).
IS-173
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS RDSSC Minutes of October 24, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of October 13, 2008 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 15 of Draft Ordinance
IS-174
October 24, 2005
Page 8 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz asked Committee Member Cartwright to meet with Staff to
develop a list of concerns to be attached to the Committee recommendation that would
give the new committee direction.
Councilman Long called for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed with Committee Member Slayden abstaining because he does
not believe the neighborhood should get involved at this point because they may
not be that informed.
Senior Planner Mihranian began Staff’s presentation on Architectural Features referring
to Section 17.40 of the Development Code. He noted that Staff is recommending
changes to the organization of this section, as well as adding or clarifying sections to
reflect current development trends. He stated that the Planning Department is
processing requests for outdoor living spaces, including kitchens and fireplaces and the
Code is not clear on these improvements. He stated that the suggested amendments
are to address these items.
Commissioner Mueller noted that language is changing by adding retractable awnings
to the criteria. He asked how far would they be allowed to project.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it depends on where it is located and that the
encroachment is similar to a garden window.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that garden windows and window covering, such as
retractable awnings, share a similar setback requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that roof eaves were placed in its own section of the
Code for clarification purposes, but that the standard did not change. He added
language to clarify that roof eaves do not count towards lot coverage so that it
encourages the use of eaves.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if eaves with vertical supports count towards lot
coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that eaves with vertical supports are counted
towards lot coverage.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there have been past problems with retractable awnings
that led Staff to add this to the list.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there have been no past problems. However,
when residents inquiry about installing a retractable awning since the Code is silent to
such a structure, then it is implied that it is prohibitive. Staff believes retractable
awnings should be allowed and is therefore treating them similar to a garden window
when proposed to project within a required yard.
IS-175
October 24, 2005
Page 9 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz questioned why something is prohibitive rather than permissive if
the Code is silent.
Councilman Long stated that since a retractable awning is attached to a structure than it
is a part of the structure, and if it is permissive then it can be of any size because the
Code is silent. He stated that if the Code is silent to something it should be addressed
so that it can be regulated.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that in order to allow retractable awnings to project
into a required yard, the Director has interpreted a retractable awning to be similar to a
garden window.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that if the Code is silent then it is prohibitive and by
addressing topics in the Code then we are providing an outlet for property owners.
Committee Member Lyon noted that he was under the impression that the Development
Code states what you cannot do and everything else is permissible.
Councilman Wolowicz agreed.
Committee Member Cartwright referred to an example in his neighborhood regarding
the color of the awnings.
Councilman Long stated that awnings can change the character of a home and most
certainly a neighborhood.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Commissioner Mueller to comment on colors as it relates
to architectural features.
Commissioner Mueller expressed a concern not so much on color but rather materials,
such as metal roofs.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that technology may lead to future problems with the
Code.
Councilman Long agreed and stated that the Development Code is a work in progress
and needs to be updated periodically to address new technology. He expressed a
concern with having a Code that was permissive when silent. He added that you do not
want the Development Code to be inflexible for new technologies, but on the other hand
you do not want to permit something that you know nothing about.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is a head note paragraph in the Development
Code that informs the reader that if something is not mentioned than it is prohibited.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that Codes are usually not that explicit. He added that a
code cannot address everything.
IS-176
October 24, 2005
Page 10 of 15
Councilman Long stated that it could be by implication.
Committee Member Slayden asked if the proposed language can be modified to include
compatible awnings.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that compatibility is addressed in the Neighborhood
Compatibility requirement.
Councilman Wolowicz returned to his original question if the Code should have a head
note paragraph.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that if a Code states you need to get a permit for any
improvement to your house, then an awning is considered an improvement and a permit
is required.
Senior Planner Mihranian cited a section from the Development Code that states any
new development requires a site plan review application.
Councilman Long suggested that the Committee focus on its task adding that the
discussion on the Development Code is not on the agenda.
Committee Member Karp asked how color and material for awnings can be addressed.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that reviewing the color of an awning is no different that
reviewing the color of a house. He stated that the way to control it is through the
Neighborhood Compatibility ordinance.
Committee Member Karp stated that the Code does not allow the City to regulate house
color.
Councilman Long stated that you can evaluate compatibility by reviewing all the
architectural features including color.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that color is not considered a component of
Neighborhood Compatibility. He added that if a property owner requested to install an
awning, whether retractable or not, neighborhood compatibility would not be required
because it does not qualify as a trigger.
Commissioner Mueller stated that reviewing color is usually done by an art jury or an
architectural review board.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if we added compatible to the proposed text would it result
in confusion.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it would because there are no guidelines to
evaluate compatibility.
IS-177
October 24, 2005
Page 11 of 15
Committee Member Slayden said that compatibility should be based on color and
whether it matches the house.
Councilman Long stated that color is a new set of criteria that requires reviewing color
palettes for a structure. He suggested that this issue be addressed at a later time. He
then asked that the Committee should look at window coverings to be treated similarly
as garden windows for projecting into required yards.
Committee Member Slayden stated that Staff’s proposed language is acceptable for
garden windows and window coverings.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked if there were any comments to the proposed language
on roof eaves. There were no comments so he moved the discussion to fireplace
chimneys. He stated that this is a new section that clarifies the difference between
chimneys attached to a structure and detached chimneys that are a part of an outdoor
living space. He reviewed the new language for detached structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked why detached chimneys were limited to twelve feet.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded to be consistent with the Code’s requirement for
other detached accessory structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked how would the City treat an attached chimney to a
detached structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the chimney would be considered attached to a
habitable structure regardless of whether it is a detached accessory structure and would
be subject to said criteria. He proceeded to discuss criteria for minor structures and
mechanical equipment explaining that the list of permitted structures that may project
into the required yards was expanded.
Committee Member Karp asked if a dog house requires a permit.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if a permit is required for a playhouse or sports equipment
and whether fees are required as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it was his impression that a permit is required as
well as a permit fee.
Committee Member Karp stated that an article should be placed in the City’s quarterly
newsletter on this matter so that people know when a permit is needed.
Councilman Wolowicz raised a concern as to why permits and application filing fees are
required for such structures. He then asked if there are guidelines that identify what
requires a permit. He thinks the public needs to be educated on these requirements.
IS-178
October 24, 2005
Page 12 of 15
Committee Member Cartwright asked how noise levels from mechanical equipment
were going to be measured based on Staff’s proposed amended text.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on today’s technology, mechanical
equipment includes noise specifications that the City would rely on.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with relying on the mechanical equipment’s
specifications. He stated that the specifications are based on limited variables and the
outcome can drastically vary from what is included in the manual.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with pool equipment and stated that
the original text provided the City with an enforcement mechanism to test noise levels.
He indicated he would like the existing text to remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the existing text provides the City with an
enforcement mechanism and places the burden to prove the equipment does not
adversely impact neighbors on the property owner.
Councilman Long suggested that although Staff’s attempt is to seek more precision, the
text should remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that noise is related to ambiance and since the City is
relatively quiet, noise is more evident. He stated that noise levels should be measured
from property lines with ambient noise factored into the equation.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern with allowing fountains within the front yard
because of noise levels and aesthetics.
Committee Member Karp stated that fountains were not as popular as they are now and
are much more elaborate today.
Committee Member Cartwright gave an example of a fountain that started off as this
simple decorative feature but was expanded to have many features and statues added
to it that resulting in a much more obtrusive structure. He recommended that a
definition of what is a fountain be included. He stated that if fountains are permissible,
then we should define to what extent, otherwise you can end up with the entire front
yard as a fountain.
Senior Planner Mihranian suggested that the Committee establish limits to the size,
height and hours of operation for a fountain.
Commissioner Perestam spoke of the visual impacts of a fountain referring to an
example on Palos Verdes Drive South near Trump National.
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October 24, 2005
Page 13 of 15
Committee Member Karp would like language added that regulates the size and hours
of operation of a fountain. She stated that a fountain should not be allowed to run all
night.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if fountain made no noise, would it still be a concern.
Councilman Long stated that some of the concerns relating to fountains has to do with
the architectural appearance, especially in the front yard, and that it is not just noise.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for some guidance as to what is considered a minor
structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the Code language citing the 120 square foot limit.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about light fixtures and if there are luminous
standards.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that the Environmental Protection section of the
Development Code addresses wattage.
Councilman Long raised a concern with regulating wattage because people can choose
different things to install in a light fixture which can be more luminous. He stated that
the Code should regulate luminous not wattage.
Commissioner Gerstner added that two of the most important things that affect the
character of a community are light and noise. He noted that they are hard things to
regulate. He expressed a concern with homes that are overly illuminated stating that
the quality of life is affected. He stated that the City Council should evaluate noise and
lighting.
Committee Member Cartwright indicated that when he was on the Planning
Commission, conditions were seldom imposed that regulated light fixtures, typically so
that they are downcast and lighting does not spill over to the neighbors property.
Councilman Long asked why ornamental ponds were reduced from a depth of 24-
inches to 18-inches.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the change is to make the Code consistent with
the Uniform Building Code that requires fencing around a body of water that exceeds a
depth of 18-inches.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that Staff bring back the section on architectural
features with modifications identified by the Committee.
Councilman Long stated that starting with Circle Page 18, the Committee accepts
the changes proposed to sections 1, 2, 3, 4 and the beginning portion of 5. He
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October 24, 2005
Page 14 of 15
added that the Committee does not support a change to the noise requirement in
Section 5.I and that Staff bring back information on Section 5c with a definition of
a fountain, a consideration of what are and are not minor structures, the
Committee accepts the change to ornamental ponds and the changes proposed
on Circle Pages 21 and 22 for consistency purposes.
Councilman moved to adopt Councilman Long’s summary statement, seconded
by Committee Member Cartwright.
The motion moved unanimously.
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the Committee with a list of items reviewed by the
Committee during its tenure. He added that the Committee is near it completion.
Councilman Long stated that based on the recent workshop with the Planning
Commission there appears to be this perception that this Committee will be answering
questions regarding Neighborhood Compatibility. Specifically, when evaluating whether
a structure is compatible, is compatibility based on a neighborhood as it currently exists,
the vision of a neighborhood as it will exist in the future, and what is the definition of
that. He asked if the Committee is formulating an answer to this question.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the three Commissioners on this Committee, as well as
the formers members on the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering Committee can assist
in answering this question.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on Saturday’s Joint Workshop, Staff will
bring to this Committee some clean-up items to the Neighborhood Compatibility
Handbook as it pertains to color and the compatibility evaluation process. He added
that one of the outstanding matters that the Committee needs to address is conducting
a meeting with Eastview residents regarding the proposed Overlay District. He
reminded the Committee that at the time the Overlay District was contemplated the
thought was that the residents affected by the proposal should be given the opportunity
to provide input on the proposal outside of the public hearing process.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about CC&R’s.
Councilman Long stated that the Council decided not to enforce CC&R’s but to make
the public aware that CC&R’s may exist. He stated that Councilman Gardiner asked if
the Committee is addressing the carrying capacity of the City.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
IS-181
2. Height Variation & Minor Exception Permit (Case No. ZON2009-00048):
28614 Mt. Hood Court
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, explaining this item was continued
from a previous meeting with the Planning Commission’s request that minor
modifications be made to the project in order to add some articulation to the south
sideyard setback. She gave a brief overview of the project and highlighted the revisions
made to the plans.
Frank Politeo (architect) explained his revisions and stated he was available to answer
any questions. He added that he agrees with the conditions of approval in the staff
report.
Mr. Bilan (applicant) felt that this home complies with all of the code regulations and he
has made compromises in the design in terms of articulation. He felt that this design is
comparable with other homes in the neighborhood, is well designed, and asked the
Planning Commission approve the project.
Chairman Lewis closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Perestam commented that the architect has responded to what the
Planning Commission asked of him, and he appreciated the changes made. He stated
that he is now in support of the proposed project.
Commissioner Perestam moved to approve Height Variation and Minor Exception
permit as recommended by staff, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin.
Commissioner Knight also appreciated the effort of the architect. He noted that he
would have preferred articulation all the way to the back, but understood the
circumstances that would create a smaller bedroom size.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that this addition encroaches into a portion of the view from
the Goshi residence, as he discussed at the last meeting. He questioned if this view
impairment constituted a significant view impairment.
Chairman Lewis did not feel that a majority of the Commission felt that the view impact
to the Goshi residence was significant. He stated that he supports the current motion.
The motion to approve PC Resolution 2009-42 thereby approving the Height
Variation and Minor Exception Permit was approved, (6-0).
3. Residential Development Standards Code Amendment and Zone Change
(Case No. ZON2007-00377): Citywide
Planning Commission Minutes
October 13, 2009
Page 2 IS-182
Director Rojas presented the staff report, briefly explaining the three categories
regarding minor structures and miscellaneous development standards scheduled to be
discussed. He began with the first item, the setback encroachment clarification and
explained the Committee’s recommendation.
Vice Chairman Gerstner felt that staff’s clarification on the setback encroachment was
consistent with the Committee’s recommendation. The Commission agreed with the
proposed language.
Director Rojas explained the next subject, ornamental pools, by explaining that the
suggestion is to change the language in the Code to state that the depth of an
ornamental pool shall be to 18 inches, which is consistent with the language in the
Building Code.
The Commission had a brief discussion regarding the intent of the Uniform Building
Code in restricting the depth of pools without fencing to 18 inches.
Commissioner Knight noted what he felt may be confusing language when looking at
the depth of pools and ornamental pools in Section 7 of the staff report, and how that
may conflict with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner stated that 18 inches is actually irrelevant in Section 7, as it is
not the depth that is being defined but rather whether or not the pool can be allowed in
the side or rear yard setback.
Director Rojas felt that the language should be clarified in Section 7 to be consistent
with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner suggested striking the words “measuring more than 18 inches”
from the first part of the paragraph and anywhere else where the depth measurement
for ornamental ponds is mentioned, other than in the definition.
Chairman Lewis suggested language for Section 7 which states that “. . . swimming
pools, spas, ornamental pools, as defined in the proper section . . . .”
The Commission agreed that referring the reader to a definition was the best way to
word this section.
Director Rojas stated that the final issue is in regards to minor structures in setback
areas and the recommendation was to clarify and modify the list of the types of minor
structures that are permitted within the setback areas.
Commissioner Perestam felt that some of a previous discussion regarding lot coverage
in regards to decks and trellises did not seem to be included in this language, and
wondered if the issues had been brought before the Commission at a previous meeting
for discussion.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 13, 2009
Page 3 IS-183
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
DEPTH OF ORNAMENTAL POOLS
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Depth of Ornamental Pools
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Resolve the current conflict between the Zoning and Building
Codes regarding the maximum depth permitted for ornamental
pools without triggering the pool fencing requirement.
DISCUSSION Current Development Code language defines ornamental
pools as being less than twenty-four inches (24”) deep, while
the Uniform Building Code defines ornamental pools as being
less than eighteen inches (18”) deep. This creates a potential
conflict because a 20-inch-deep pond requires pool fencing
under the Development Code, but not under the Uniform
Building Code. Therefore, the RDSSC wished to adopt a
standard consistent with the Uniform Building Code by
amending Section 17.48.030(E)(5) as follows (additions bold
and underlined, deletions struck out):
57. Swimming or Ornamental Pools. Swimming pools,
spas, ornamental pools and any other body of water
measuring more than twenty-four eighteen inches
deep, may be located within an interior or rear yard
setback; provided, that no portion of said pool is
located closer than three feet from the property line.
Ornamental ponds less than twenty-four eighteen
inches deep may be located within any required
setback and may abut any property line.
In addition to the RDSSC recommendations, Staff
recommends making corresponding changes to the language
of Sections 17.76.030(E)(3) and 17.96.1460, respectively, so
as to provide consistent language regarding the definition of
an ornamental pool (additions bold and underlined, deletions
struck out):
3. Fences or Walls – Required. All pools, spas and
standing bodies of water twenty-four eighteen inches
or more in depth shall be enclosed by a structure
and/or a fence or wall not less than five feet in height
measured from the outside ground level at a point
twelve inches horizontal from the base of the fence or
wall. Any gate or door to the outside shall be
equipped with a self-closing device and a self-latching
IS-184
device located not less than four feet above the
ground. Such fences, walls and gates shall meet City
specifications and shall be constructed to the
satisfaction of the City's Building Official.
"Swimming or ornamental pool" means any body of water
measuring more than twenty-four eighteen inches deep at its
deepest point, whether above or below the surface of the
ground. “Ornamental pool” means any body of water
measuring eighteen inches or less in depth at its deepest
point, whether above or below the surface of the ground.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC and Staff recommendations
2. Reject the RDSSC and Staff recommendations
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC and/or Staff
recommendations
P.C. ACTION Alternative 3
ATTACHMENTS RDSSC Minutes of October 24, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of October 13, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Sections 16 and 17 of Draft Ordinance
IS-185
October 24, 2005
Page 8 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz asked Committee Member Cartwright to meet with Staff to
develop a list of concerns to be attached to the Committee recommendation that would
give the new committee direction.
Councilman Long called for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed with Committee Member Slayden abstaining because he does
not believe the neighborhood should get involved at this point because they may
not be that informed.
Senior Planner Mihranian began Staff’s presentation on Architectural Features referring
to Section 17.40 of the Development Code. He noted that Staff is recommending
changes to the organization of this section, as well as adding or clarifying sections to
reflect current development trends. He stated that the Planning Department is
processing requests for outdoor living spaces, including kitchens and fireplaces and the
Code is not clear on these improvements. He stated that the suggested amendments
are to address these items.
Commissioner Mueller noted that language is changing by adding retractable awnings
to the criteria. He asked how far would they be allowed to project.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it depends on where it is located and that the
encroachment is similar to a garden window.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that garden windows and window covering, such as
retractable awnings, share a similar setback requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that roof eaves were placed in its own section of the
Code for clarification purposes, but that the standard did not change. He added
language to clarify that roof eaves do not count towards lot coverage so that it
encourages the use of eaves.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if eaves with vertical supports count towards lot
coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that eaves with vertical supports are counted
towards lot coverage.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there have been past problems with retractable awnings
that led Staff to add this to the list.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there have been no past problems. However,
when residents inquiry about installing a retractable awning since the Code is silent to
such a structure, then it is implied that it is prohibitive. Staff believes retractable
awnings should be allowed and is therefore treating them similar to a garden window
when proposed to project within a required yard.
IS-186
October 24, 2005
Page 9 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz questioned why something is prohibitive rather than permissive if
the Code is silent.
Councilman Long stated that since a retractable awning is attached to a structure than it
is a part of the structure, and if it is permissive then it can be of any size because the
Code is silent. He stated that if the Code is silent to something it should be addressed
so that it can be regulated.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that in order to allow retractable awnings to project
into a required yard, the Director has interpreted a retractable awning to be similar to a
garden window.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that if the Code is silent then it is prohibitive and by
addressing topics in the Code then we are providing an outlet for property owners.
Committee Member Lyon noted that he was under the impression that the Development
Code states what you cannot do and everything else is permissible.
Councilman Wolowicz agreed.
Committee Member Cartwright referred to an example in his neighborhood regarding
the color of the awnings.
Councilman Long stated that awnings can change the character of a home and most
certainly a neighborhood.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Commissioner Mueller to comment on colors as it relates
to architectural features.
Commissioner Mueller expressed a concern not so much on color but rather materials,
such as metal roofs.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that technology may lead to future problems with the
Code.
Councilman Long agreed and stated that the Development Code is a work in progress
and needs to be updated periodically to address new technology. He expressed a
concern with having a Code that was permissive when silent. He added that you do not
want the Development Code to be inflexible for new technologies, but on the other hand
you do not want to permit something that you know nothing about.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is a head note paragraph in the Development
Code that informs the reader that if something is not mentioned than it is prohibited.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that Codes are usually not that explicit. He added that a
code cannot address everything.
IS-187
October 24, 2005
Page 10 of 15
Councilman Long stated that it could be by implication.
Committee Member Slayden asked if the proposed language can be modified to include
compatible awnings.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that compatibility is addressed in the Neighborhood
Compatibility requirement.
Councilman Wolowicz returned to his original question if the Code should have a head
note paragraph.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that if a Code states you need to get a permit for any
improvement to your house, then an awning is considered an improvement and a permit
is required.
Senior Planner Mihranian cited a section from the Development Code that states any
new development requires a site plan review application.
Councilman Long suggested that the Committee focus on its task adding that the
discussion on the Development Code is not on the agenda.
Committee Member Karp asked how color and material for awnings can be addressed.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that reviewing the color of an awning is no different that
reviewing the color of a house. He stated that the way to control it is through the
Neighborhood Compatibility ordinance.
Committee Member Karp stated that the Code does not allow the City to regulate house
color.
Councilman Long stated that you can evaluate compatibility by reviewing all the
architectural features including color.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that color is not considered a component of
Neighborhood Compatibility. He added that if a property owner requested to install an
awning, whether retractable or not, neighborhood compatibility would not be required
because it does not qualify as a trigger.
Commissioner Mueller stated that reviewing color is usually done by an art jury or an
architectural review board.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if we added compatible to the proposed text would it result
in confusion.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it would because there are no guidelines to
evaluate compatibility.
IS-188
October 24, 2005
Page 11 of 15
Committee Member Slayden said that compatibility should be based on color and
whether it matches the house.
Councilman Long stated that color is a new set of criteria that requires reviewing color
palettes for a structure. He suggested that this issue be addressed at a later time. He
then asked that the Committee should look at window coverings to be treated similarly
as garden windows for projecting into required yards.
Committee Member Slayden stated that Staff’s proposed language is acceptable for
garden windows and window coverings.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked if there were any comments to the proposed language
on roof eaves. There were no comments so he moved the discussion to fireplace
chimneys. He stated that this is a new section that clarifies the difference between
chimneys attached to a structure and detached chimneys that are a part of an outdoor
living space. He reviewed the new language for detached structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked why detached chimneys were limited to twelve feet.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded to be consistent with the Code’s requirement for
other detached accessory structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked how would the City treat an attached chimney to a
detached structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the chimney would be considered attached to a
habitable structure regardless of whether it is a detached accessory structure and would
be subject to said criteria. He proceeded to discuss criteria for minor structures and
mechanical equipment explaining that the list of permitted structures that may project
into the required yards was expanded.
Committee Member Karp asked if a dog house requires a permit.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if a permit is required for a playhouse or sports equipment
and whether fees are required as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it was his impression that a permit is required as
well as a permit fee.
Committee Member Karp stated that an article should be placed in the City’s quarterly
newsletter on this matter so that people know when a permit is needed.
Councilman Wolowicz raised a concern as to why permits and application filing fees are
required for such structures. He then asked if there are guidelines that identify what
requires a permit. He thinks the public needs to be educated on these requirements.
IS-189
October 24, 2005
Page 12 of 15
Committee Member Cartwright asked how noise levels from mechanical equipment
were going to be measured based on Staff’s proposed amended text.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on today’s technology, mechanical
equipment includes noise specifications that the City would rely on.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with relying on the mechanical equipment’s
specifications. He stated that the specifications are based on limited variables and the
outcome can drastically vary from what is included in the manual.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with pool equipment and stated that
the original text provided the City with an enforcement mechanism to test noise levels.
He indicated he would like the existing text to remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the existing text provides the City with an
enforcement mechanism and places the burden to prove the equipment does not
adversely impact neighbors on the property owner.
Councilman Long suggested that although Staff’s attempt is to seek more precision, the
text should remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that noise is related to ambiance and since the City is
relatively quiet, noise is more evident. He stated that noise levels should be measured
from property lines with ambient noise factored into the equation.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern with allowing fountains within the front yard
because of noise levels and aesthetics.
Committee Member Karp stated that fountains were not as popular as they are now and
are much more elaborate today.
Committee Member Cartwright gave an example of a fountain that started off as this
simple decorative feature but was expanded to have many features and statues added
to it that resulting in a much more obtrusive structure. He recommended that a
definition of what is a fountain be included. He stated that if fountains are permissible,
then we should define to what extent, otherwise you can end up with the entire front
yard as a fountain.
Senior Planner Mihranian suggested that the Committee establish limits to the size,
height and hours of operation for a fountain.
Commissioner Perestam spoke of the visual impacts of a fountain referring to an
example on Palos Verdes Drive South near Trump National.
IS-190
October 24, 2005
Page 13 of 15
Committee Member Karp would like language added that regulates the size and hours
of operation of a fountain. She stated that a fountain should not be allowed to run all
night.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if fountain made no noise, would it still be a concern.
Councilman Long stated that some of the concerns relating to fountains has to do with
the architectural appearance, especially in the front yard, and that it is not just noise.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for some guidance as to what is considered a minor
structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the Code language citing the 120 square foot limit.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about light fixtures and if there are luminous
standards.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that the Environmental Protection section of the
Development Code addresses wattage.
Councilman Long raised a concern with regulating wattage because people can choose
different things to install in a light fixture which can be more luminous. He stated that
the Code should regulate luminous not wattage.
Commissioner Gerstner added that two of the most important things that affect the
character of a community are light and noise. He noted that they are hard things to
regulate. He expressed a concern with homes that are overly illuminated stating that
the quality of life is affected. He stated that the City Council should evaluate noise and
lighting.
Committee Member Cartwright indicated that when he was on the Planning
Commission, conditions were seldom imposed that regulated light fixtures, typically so
that they are downcast and lighting does not spill over to the neighbors property.
Councilman Long asked why ornamental ponds were reduced from a depth of 24-
inches to 18-inches.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the change is to make the Code consistent with
the Uniform Building Code that requires fencing around a body of water that exceeds a
depth of 18-inches.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that Staff bring back the section on architectural
features with modifications identified by the Committee.
Councilman Long stated that starting with Circle Page 18, the Committee accepts
the changes proposed to sections 1, 2, 3, 4 and the beginning portion of 5. He
IS-191
October 24, 2005
Page 14 of 15
added that the Committee does not support a change to the noise requirement in
Section 5.I and that Staff bring back information on Section 5c with a definition of
a fountain, a consideration of what are and are not minor structures, the
Committee accepts the change to ornamental ponds and the changes proposed
on Circle Pages 21 and 22 for consistency purposes.
Councilman moved to adopt Councilman Long’s summary statement, seconded
by Committee Member Cartwright.
The motion moved unanimously.
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the Committee with a list of items reviewed by the
Committee during its tenure. He added that the Committee is near it completion.
Councilman Long stated that based on the recent workshop with the Planning
Commission there appears to be this perception that this Committee will be answering
questions regarding Neighborhood Compatibility. Specifically, when evaluating whether
a structure is compatible, is compatibility based on a neighborhood as it currently exists,
the vision of a neighborhood as it will exist in the future, and what is the definition of
that. He asked if the Committee is formulating an answer to this question.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the three Commissioners on this Committee, as well as
the formers members on the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering Committee can assist
in answering this question.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on Saturday’s Joint Workshop, Staff will
bring to this Committee some clean-up items to the Neighborhood Compatibility
Handbook as it pertains to color and the compatibility evaluation process. He added
that one of the outstanding matters that the Committee needs to address is conducting
a meeting with Eastview residents regarding the proposed Overlay District. He
reminded the Committee that at the time the Overlay District was contemplated the
thought was that the residents affected by the proposal should be given the opportunity
to provide input on the proposal outside of the public hearing process.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about CC&R’s.
Councilman Long stated that the Council decided not to enforce CC&R’s but to make
the public aware that CC&R’s may exist. He stated that Councilman Gardiner asked if
the Committee is addressing the carrying capacity of the City.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
IS-192
Director Rojas presented the staff report, briefly explaining the three categories
regarding minor structures and miscellaneous development standards scheduled to be
discussed. He began with the first item, the setback encroachment clarification and
explained the Committee’s recommendation.
Vice Chairman Gerstner felt that staff’s clarification on the setback encroachment was
consistent with the Committee’s recommendation. The Commission agreed with the
proposed language.
Director Rojas explained the next subject, ornamental pools, by explaining that the
suggestion is to change the language in the Code to state that the depth of an
ornamental pool shall be to 18 inches, which is consistent with the language in the
Building Code.
The Commission had a brief discussion regarding the intent of the Uniform Building
Code in restricting the depth of pools without fencing to 18 inches.
Commissioner Knight noted what he felt may be confusing language when looking at
the depth of pools and ornamental pools in Section 7 of the staff report, and how that
may conflict with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner stated that 18 inches is actually irrelevant in Section 7, as it is
not the depth that is being defined but rather whether or not the pool can be allowed in
the side or rear yard setback.
Director Rojas felt that the language should be clarified in Section 7 to be consistent
with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner suggested striking the words “measuring more than 18 inches”
from the first part of the paragraph and anywhere else where the depth measurement
for ornamental ponds is mentioned, other than in the definition.
Chairman Lewis suggested language for Section 7 which states that “. . . swimming
pools, spas, ornamental pools, as defined in the proper section . . . .”
The Commission agreed that referring the reader to a definition was the best way to
word this section.
Director Rojas stated that the final issue is in regards to minor structures in setback
areas and the recommendation was to clarify and modify the list of the types of minor
structures that are permitted within the setback areas.
Commissioner Perestam felt that some of a previous discussion regarding lot coverage
in regards to decks and trellises did not seem to be included in this language, and
wondered if the issues had been brought before the Commission at a previous meeting
for discussion.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 13, 2009
Page 3 IS-193
ISSUE SUMMARY PACKET
MINOR STRUCTURES IN SETBACK AREAS
ISSUE SUMMARY SHEET:
ISSUE Minor structures in setback areas
RDSSC
RECOMMENDATION
Modify the list of the types of minor structures permitted within
the setback areas—with and without Site Plan Review
approval—while restricting the hours of operation of fountains
due to concerns about noise impacts upon neighbors.
DISCUSSION The RDSSC wished to expand the list of minor structures and
improvements specifically requiring site plan review, as well
as specifically exempting certain limited structures. It also
wished to identify permitted minor structures in front yards.
The RDSSC was concerned that fountains in the front yard
should count towards the 50-percent hardscape coverage
limitation. Furthermore, the Committee wished to ensure that
noise from fountains did not disturb neighbors. Therefore, the
RDSSC recommended amending Section 17.48.030(E)(3) as
follows (additions bold and underlined, deletions struck out):
35. Minor Structures and Mechanical Equipment. Trash
enclosures, storage sheds or playhouses less than
one hundred twenty square feet, doghouses,
play/sports equipment, fountains, light fixtures on a
standard or a pole, flag poles, enclosed water
heaters, barbecues, outdoor kitchens, garden walls,
air conditioners, pool filters, vents and other minor
structures or mechanical equipment shall not be
located in any setback area in residential districts
except as specified below:
a. Minor structures and equipment less than six
inches in height, as measured from adjacent
finished grade, may be located in any required
front, side or rear setback;
b. Minor structures and mechanical equipment
which exceed six inches in height, as
measured from adjacent finished grade, may
be permitted within an interior side or rear
setback area by the director, through a site
plan review application, unless the minor
structure is a play house less than 120
square feet, a dog house, or play/sports
equipment, then a site plan review
application shall not be required; provided
IS-194
that no significant adverse impacts will result
and provided that:
i. Noise levels from mechanical equipment
do not exceed sixty-five dBA as
measured from the closest property line,
ii. No part of any minor structure or
mechanical equipment, exceeds six feet
in height (as measured from adjacent
finished grade),
iii. If located within a rear setback area
which abuts a public or private street,
the minor structure or mechanical
equipment is not visible from the public
or private street,
iv. No part of any mechanical equipment,
including but not limited to pool/spa
equipment and air conditioning/heating
equipment, extends within three feet of
the property line, and
v. No part of any minor structure extends
within three feet of the property line.
However, minor structures (not
mechanical equipment) may be allowed
to abut the side or rear property line;
provided, that the minor structure:
(A) Is placed adjacent to an existing
solid wall;
(B) Does not exceed the maximum
height of the adjacent solid wall,
up to a maximum of six feet;
(C) Is less than one hundred twenty
square feet in size; and
(D) Is located a minimum of three
feet from an adjacent structure,
unless the structures are parallel
and abutting each other, as
determined by the director.
c. The following minor structures shall be
permitted within a front yard setback area
provided that the minor structure does not
exceed 42-inches in height, as measured
from adjacent pre-construction grade:
i. Balustrades and columns;
ii. Light fixtures, including light fixtures
attached to a standard, a pole or a
column;
IS-195
iii. Fountains, provided that the fountain
is within the maximum front yard
landscape requirement and is not
operated between the hours of
midnight and 7 a.m.; and;
iv. Ornamental ponds less than 18
inches deep.
In addition to the RDSSC recommendations, Staff also
recommends adding the following to the list of permitted minor
structures within the front-yard setback area (additions bold
and underlined, deletions struck out):
v. Decorative landscape elements,
including but not limited to: rocks,
boulders, raised planter beds,
pilasters and statuary.
ALTERNATIVES 1. Accept the RDSSC recommendation
2. Reject the RDSSC recommendation
3. Propose modifications to the RDSSC recommendation
P.C. ACTION Alternative 1
ATTACHMENTS RDSSC Minutes of October 24, 2005 (excerpt)
RDSSC Minutes of November 14, 2005 (excerpt)
PC Minutes of October 13, 2009 (excerpt)
REFERENCES Section 15 of Draft Ordinance
IS-196
October 24, 2005
Page 8 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz asked Committee Member Cartwright to meet with Staff to
develop a list of concerns to be attached to the Committee recommendation that would
give the new committee direction.
Councilman Long called for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed with Committee Member Slayden abstaining because he does
not believe the neighborhood should get involved at this point because they may
not be that informed.
Senior Planner Mihranian began Staff’s presentation on Architectural Features referring
to Section 17.40 of the Development Code. He noted that Staff is recommending
changes to the organization of this section, as well as adding or clarifying sections to
reflect current development trends. He stated that the Planning Department is
processing requests for outdoor living spaces, including kitchens and fireplaces and the
Code is not clear on these improvements. He stated that the suggested amendments
are to address these items.
Commissioner Mueller noted that language is changing by adding retractable awnings
to the criteria. He asked how far would they be allowed to project.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it depends on where it is located and that the
encroachment is similar to a garden window.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that garden windows and window covering, such as
retractable awnings, share a similar setback requirement.
Senior Planner Mihranian noted that roof eaves were placed in its own section of the
Code for clarification purposes, but that the standard did not change. He added
language to clarify that roof eaves do not count towards lot coverage so that it
encourages the use of eaves.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if eaves with vertical supports count towards lot
coverage.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that eaves with vertical supports are counted
towards lot coverage.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there have been past problems with retractable awnings
that led Staff to add this to the list.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that there have been no past problems. However,
when residents inquiry about installing a retractable awning since the Code is silent to
such a structure, then it is implied that it is prohibitive. Staff believes retractable
awnings should be allowed and is therefore treating them similar to a garden window
when proposed to project within a required yard.
IS-197
October 24, 2005
Page 9 of 15
Councilman Wolowicz questioned why something is prohibitive rather than permissive if
the Code is silent.
Councilman Long stated that since a retractable awning is attached to a structure than it
is a part of the structure, and if it is permissive then it can be of any size because the
Code is silent. He stated that if the Code is silent to something it should be addressed
so that it can be regulated.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that in order to allow retractable awnings to project
into a required yard, the Director has interpreted a retractable awning to be similar to a
garden window.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that if the Code is silent then it is prohibitive and by
addressing topics in the Code then we are providing an outlet for property owners.
Committee Member Lyon noted that he was under the impression that the Development
Code states what you cannot do and everything else is permissible.
Councilman Wolowicz agreed.
Committee Member Cartwright referred to an example in his neighborhood regarding
the color of the awnings.
Councilman Long stated that awnings can change the character of a home and most
certainly a neighborhood.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Commissioner Mueller to comment on colors as it relates
to architectural features.
Commissioner Mueller expressed a concern not so much on color but rather materials,
such as metal roofs.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that technology may lead to future problems with the
Code.
Councilman Long agreed and stated that the Development Code is a work in progress
and needs to be updated periodically to address new technology. He expressed a
concern with having a Code that was permissive when silent. He added that you do not
want the Development Code to be inflexible for new technologies, but on the other hand
you do not want to permit something that you know nothing about.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there is a head note paragraph in the Development
Code that informs the reader that if something is not mentioned than it is prohibited.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that Codes are usually not that explicit. He added that a
code cannot address everything.
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October 24, 2005
Page 10 of 15
Councilman Long stated that it could be by implication.
Committee Member Slayden asked if the proposed language can be modified to include
compatible awnings.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that compatibility is addressed in the Neighborhood
Compatibility requirement.
Councilman Wolowicz returned to his original question if the Code should have a head
note paragraph.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that if a Code states you need to get a permit for any
improvement to your house, then an awning is considered an improvement and a permit
is required.
Senior Planner Mihranian cited a section from the Development Code that states any
new development requires a site plan review application.
Councilman Long suggested that the Committee focus on its task adding that the
discussion on the Development Code is not on the agenda.
Committee Member Karp asked how color and material for awnings can be addressed.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that reviewing the color of an awning is no different that
reviewing the color of a house. He stated that the way to control it is through the
Neighborhood Compatibility ordinance.
Committee Member Karp stated that the Code does not allow the City to regulate house
color.
Councilman Long stated that you can evaluate compatibility by reviewing all the
architectural features including color.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that color is not considered a component of
Neighborhood Compatibility. He added that if a property owner requested to install an
awning, whether retractable or not, neighborhood compatibility would not be required
because it does not qualify as a trigger.
Commissioner Mueller stated that reviewing color is usually done by an art jury or an
architectural review board.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if we added compatible to the proposed text would it result
in confusion.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it would because there are no guidelines to
evaluate compatibility.
IS-199
October 24, 2005
Page 11 of 15
Committee Member Slayden said that compatibility should be based on color and
whether it matches the house.
Councilman Long stated that color is a new set of criteria that requires reviewing color
palettes for a structure. He suggested that this issue be addressed at a later time. He
then asked that the Committee should look at window coverings to be treated similarly
as garden windows for projecting into required yards.
Committee Member Slayden stated that Staff’s proposed language is acceptable for
garden windows and window coverings.
Senior Planner Mihranian asked if there were any comments to the proposed language
on roof eaves. There were no comments so he moved the discussion to fireplace
chimneys. He stated that this is a new section that clarifies the difference between
chimneys attached to a structure and detached chimneys that are a part of an outdoor
living space. He reviewed the new language for detached structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked why detached chimneys were limited to twelve feet.
Senior Planner Mihranian responded to be consistent with the Code’s requirement for
other detached accessory structures.
Commissioner Gerstner asked how would the City treat an attached chimney to a
detached structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the chimney would be considered attached to a
habitable structure regardless of whether it is a detached accessory structure and would
be subject to said criteria. He proceeded to discuss criteria for minor structures and
mechanical equipment explaining that the list of permitted structures that may project
into the required yards was expanded.
Committee Member Karp asked if a dog house requires a permit.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if a permit is required for a playhouse or sports equipment
and whether fees are required as well.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that it was his impression that a permit is required as
well as a permit fee.
Committee Member Karp stated that an article should be placed in the City’s quarterly
newsletter on this matter so that people know when a permit is needed.
Councilman Wolowicz raised a concern as to why permits and application filing fees are
required for such structures. He then asked if there are guidelines that identify what
requires a permit. He thinks the public needs to be educated on these requirements.
IS-200
October 24, 2005
Page 12 of 15
Committee Member Cartwright asked how noise levels from mechanical equipment
were going to be measured based on Staff’s proposed amended text.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on today’s technology, mechanical
equipment includes noise specifications that the City would rely on.
Commissioner Gerstner raised a concern with relying on the mechanical equipment’s
specifications. He stated that the specifications are based on limited variables and the
outcome can drastically vary from what is included in the manual.
Committee Member Cartwright raised a concern with pool equipment and stated that
the original text provided the City with an enforcement mechanism to test noise levels.
He indicated he would like the existing text to remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the existing text provides the City with an
enforcement mechanism and places the burden to prove the equipment does not
adversely impact neighbors on the property owner.
Councilman Long suggested that although Staff’s attempt is to seek more precision, the
text should remain.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that noise is related to ambiance and since the City is
relatively quiet, noise is more evident. He stated that noise levels should be measured
from property lines with ambient noise factored into the equation.
Commissioner Mueller raised a concern with allowing fountains within the front yard
because of noise levels and aesthetics.
Committee Member Karp stated that fountains were not as popular as they are now and
are much more elaborate today.
Committee Member Cartwright gave an example of a fountain that started off as this
simple decorative feature but was expanded to have many features and statues added
to it that resulting in a much more obtrusive structure. He recommended that a
definition of what is a fountain be included. He stated that if fountains are permissible,
then we should define to what extent, otherwise you can end up with the entire front
yard as a fountain.
Senior Planner Mihranian suggested that the Committee establish limits to the size,
height and hours of operation for a fountain.
Commissioner Perestam spoke of the visual impacts of a fountain referring to an
example on Palos Verdes Drive South near Trump National.
IS-201
October 24, 2005
Page 13 of 15
Committee Member Karp would like language added that regulates the size and hours
of operation of a fountain. She stated that a fountain should not be allowed to run all
night.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if fountain made no noise, would it still be a concern.
Councilman Long stated that some of the concerns relating to fountains has to do with
the architectural appearance, especially in the front yard, and that it is not just noise.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for some guidance as to what is considered a minor
structure.
Senior Planner Mihranian referred to the Code language citing the 120 square foot limit.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about light fixtures and if there are luminous
standards.
Senior Planner Mihranian mentioned that the Environmental Protection section of the
Development Code addresses wattage.
Councilman Long raised a concern with regulating wattage because people can choose
different things to install in a light fixture which can be more luminous. He stated that
the Code should regulate luminous not wattage.
Commissioner Gerstner added that two of the most important things that affect the
character of a community are light and noise. He noted that they are hard things to
regulate. He expressed a concern with homes that are overly illuminated stating that
the quality of life is affected. He stated that the City Council should evaluate noise and
lighting.
Committee Member Cartwright indicated that when he was on the Planning
Commission, conditions were seldom imposed that regulated light fixtures, typically so
that they are downcast and lighting does not spill over to the neighbors property.
Councilman Long asked why ornamental ponds were reduced from a depth of 24-
inches to 18-inches.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the change is to make the Code consistent with
the Uniform Building Code that requires fencing around a body of water that exceeds a
depth of 18-inches.
Councilman Wolowicz suggested that Staff bring back the section on architectural
features with modifications identified by the Committee.
Councilman Long stated that starting with Circle Page 18, the Committee accepts
the changes proposed to sections 1, 2, 3, 4 and the beginning portion of 5. He
IS-202
October 24, 2005
Page 14 of 15
added that the Committee does not support a change to the noise requirement in
Section 5.I and that Staff bring back information on Section 5c with a definition of
a fountain, a consideration of what are and are not minor structures, the
Committee accepts the change to ornamental ponds and the changes proposed
on Circle Pages 21 and 22 for consistency purposes.
Councilman moved to adopt Councilman Long’s summary statement, seconded
by Committee Member Cartwright.
The motion moved unanimously.
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the Committee with a list of items reviewed by the
Committee during its tenure. He added that the Committee is near it completion.
Councilman Long stated that based on the recent workshop with the Planning
Commission there appears to be this perception that this Committee will be answering
questions regarding Neighborhood Compatibility. Specifically, when evaluating whether
a structure is compatible, is compatibility based on a neighborhood as it currently exists,
the vision of a neighborhood as it will exist in the future, and what is the definition of
that. He asked if the Committee is formulating an answer to this question.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the three Commissioners on this Committee, as well as
the formers members on the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering Committee can assist
in answering this question.
Senior Planner Mihranian indicated that based on Saturday’s Joint Workshop, Staff will
bring to this Committee some clean-up items to the Neighborhood Compatibility
Handbook as it pertains to color and the compatibility evaluation process. He added
that one of the outstanding matters that the Committee needs to address is conducting
a meeting with Eastview residents regarding the proposed Overlay District. He
reminded the Committee that at the time the Overlay District was contemplated the
thought was that the residents affected by the proposal should be given the opportunity
to provide input on the proposal outside of the public hearing process.
Committee Member Cartwright asked about CC&R’s.
Councilman Long stated that the Council decided not to enforce CC&R’s but to make
the public aware that CC&R’s may exist. He stated that Councilman Gardiner asked if
the Committee is addressing the carrying capacity of the City.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
IS-203
November 14, 2005
Page 6 of 13
Senior Planner Mihranian responded that the majority of the area is RS-2 with portions
designated as RS-1.
Commissioner Mueller commented on the prohibition of new residences with the
moratorium area.
Councilman Wolowicz stated that it was his impression that several homes may have
been remodeled or added to without City approvals.
Senior Planner Mihranian reminded the Committee that the criteria for the moratorium
was recently amended by the Council with a square footage limitation, previous to the
amendment, there was no square footage limitation, therefore allowing larger additions.
Committee Member Dyda stated that in light of Committee Member Lyon’s clarification
he believes that a vote should be taken on the motion.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if there was any opposition to the Motion. There was
no opposition and the motion passed unanimously
Senior Planner Mihranian introduced the next agenda item by reminding the Committee
that at its last meeting, various amendments to the Architectural Features section of the
Code was amended with the exception of 5c. He stated that the Committee requested
Staff to revisit some of the criteria relating to minor structures. He proceeded to list
what is defined as a minor structure, such as trash enclosures, storage sheds less than
120 square feet, dog houses, fountains, flag poles, barbecues, etc. He then listed minor
mechanical equipment, such as air conditioners and water heaters. He added that
according to the Development Code, a site plan review application is required for minor
structures or mechanical equipment that constitute lot coverage, otherwise a minor site
plan review application is required. He stated that a few months ago a situation arose
where a property owner installed a playhouse and was required to pay an application
fee. He stated that the Planning Director determined that a site plan review application
is not required, provided that the equipment is installed according to Code. He
indicated that the Planning Director authorized the fee to be refunded.
Councilman Wolowicz stated he would like to see deminimis items excluded from the
entitlement process, but understands the associated concerns.
Senior Planner Mihranian continued with his presentation by identifying the areas that
were revised from the last meeting, specifically on minor structures in the front yard like
fountains. He stated that the Committee wanted Staff to come back with standards that
limit fountain size and hours of operation. He mentioned that in terms of size, that the
maximum front yard open space landscape requirement would indirectly limit the size of
minor structures in the front yard when calculating a driveway and a walkway. As for
noise, staff is recommending prohibiting a fountain in the front yard from operating
between midnight and 7 a.m. He added that some members of the public might not
IS-204
November 14, 2005
Page 7 of 13
favor limiting the hours of operation because it appears to be overly restrictive. He
asked for Committee input.
Committee Member Dyda stated that a fountain would then be considered hardscape.
He then asked if the Code currently regulates noise generated after 10 p.m.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the Code regulates noise levels in the commercial
standards. He added that the Code does not have a noise ordinance. He stated that
according to the Environmental Protection the Code regulates the hours of operation for
landscape and construction activities.
Committee Member Mueller asked if the City regulates tree houses.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the City does not consider tree houses to be a
structure unless they are affixed to a foundation or maintain vertical supports.
Committee Member Cartwright referred to an article written in the LA Times on a 2,000
square foot tree house that was built in Brentwood and expressed a concern that such a
structure may become an issue in Rancho Palos Verdes because of current trends.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if the Committee should address tree houses.
Senior Planner Mihranian said at this time Staff does not believe tree houses pose a
problem. He added that in the event a large tree house is constructed, if it requires a
foundation or vertical supports, then the City would require a permit because the tree
house is now considered a structure.
Committee Member Dyda questioned whether this is something that the City should
address before it becomes a problem.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that Staff believes mechanisms are in place that would
allow the City to regulate a large tree house.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if tree houses should be discussed at the next meeting.
The Committee unanimously agreed not to discuss tree houses.
Committee Member Dyda moved to adopt Staff’s recommended amendments to
the Architectural Features Section 5C.
Committee Member Lyon second the motion.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for comments.
Commissioner Mueller indicated his opposition for fountains in the front yard and the
permissible hours of operation because they are not reasonable. He would prefer to
IS-205
November 14, 2005
Page 8 of 13
see no change to the Code as it relates to fountains in the front yard because they pose
a nuisance to neighbors.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Staff if there were any modifications that could be made to
address his concerns.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that a change could be made to the permitted hours or
operation. As for the size of fountains, Staff believes using the front yard open space
requirement is adequate.
Committee Member Dyda stated that if fountains are going to be counted as hardscape,
for purposes of the front yard open space requirement, so should ornamental ponds.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that change could be made.
Councilman Wolowicz asked if the maker of the motion accepts the proposed
amendment.
Committee Members Dyda and Lyon accepted the amendment.
Committee Member Dyda raised a concern with the noise limitation for fountains and
believes it should apply to other mechanical equipment, such as pool and spa
equipment.
Councilman Wolowicz indicated that the issue relating to noise has been an on going
matter discussed by the Council in the past and may require further discussion in light of
the comments expressed by the Committee.
Committee Member Dyda believes that noise generated by mechanical equipment is an
unresolved matter because although limited to 65 dba, as measured from the closest
property line, such equipment can be operated 24-hours a day.
Councilman Wolowicz asked for a vote on the motion.
The motion passed 6 to 1, with Commissioner Mueller dissenting.
Councilman Wolowicz asked Commissioner Mueller to send a note to Staff listing his
concern. He then asked if there are any items to be placed on future agenda items.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the next meeting is December 12th. He indicated
that there are no more new items to discuss other than what gets continued from this
evening’s meeting. He mentioned that in the agenda packet is a timeline of future
meetings on the Eastview Overlay District. He briefly explained that a public notice
would go to affected property owners and homeowner’s associations in January within
the Eastview area informing them that a public meeting would be held in February 2006
by this Committee to solicit input on a possible overlay district. He added that a final
IS-206
Director Rojas presented the staff report, briefly explaining the three categories
regarding minor structures and miscellaneous development standards scheduled to be
discussed. He began with the first item, the setback encroachment clarification and
explained the Committee’s recommendation.
Vice Chairman Gerstner felt that staff’s clarification on the setback encroachment was
consistent with the Committee’s recommendation. The Commission agreed with the
proposed language.
Director Rojas explained the next subject, ornamental pools, by explaining that the
suggestion is to change the language in the Code to state that the depth of an
ornamental pool shall be to 18 inches, which is consistent with the language in the
Building Code.
The Commission had a brief discussion regarding the intent of the Uniform Building
Code in restricting the depth of pools without fencing to 18 inches.
Commissioner Knight noted what he felt may be confusing language when looking at
the depth of pools and ornamental pools in Section 7 of the staff report, and how that
may conflict with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner stated that 18 inches is actually irrelevant in Section 7, as it is
not the depth that is being defined but rather whether or not the pool can be allowed in
the side or rear yard setback.
Director Rojas felt that the language should be clarified in Section 7 to be consistent
with the definition of ornamental pools.
Vice Chairman Gerstner suggested striking the words “measuring more than 18 inches”
from the first part of the paragraph and anywhere else where the depth measurement
for ornamental ponds is mentioned, other than in the definition.
Chairman Lewis suggested language for Section 7 which states that “. . . swimming
pools, spas, ornamental pools, as defined in the proper section . . . .”
The Commission agreed that referring the reader to a definition was the best way to
word this section.
Director Rojas stated that the final issue is in regards to minor structures in setback
areas and the recommendation was to clarify and modify the list of the types of minor
structures that are permitted within the setback areas.
Commissioner Perestam felt that some of a previous discussion regarding lot coverage
in regards to decks and trellises did not seem to be included in this language, and
wondered if the issues had been brought before the Commission at a previous meeting
for discussion.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 13, 2009
Page 3 IS-207
Chairman Lewis suggested giving staff direction to approve what is currently before the
Commission with the caveat that staff check to make sure all issues of lot coverage
have been brought before the Commission for review.
Director Rojas explained that the Commission is discussing two different sections of the
code; one section being lot coverage, which was discussed by the Commission at a
previous meeting, and the one before the Commission tonight, which is discussing what
specifically is allowed in the setback areas.
Vice Chairman Gerstner noted that staff has asked the Planning Commission whether
or not to add decorative landscape elements to the list of minor structures. He noted
specifically that would include rocks, boulders, raised planter beds, pilasters, and
statuary as structures. He stated his concern with defining a rock or boulder as a
structure. He suggested language which might say “other elements including rocks,
boulders, raised planter beds, pilasters, and statuary.”
Director Rojas explained that there will be staff generated clean-up items for the
Commission’s consideration, and suggested the Planning Commission continue this
hearing to the November 10th meeting.
The Commission agreed to continue the public hearing to November 10, 2009,
without objection.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Variance Permit (Case No. ZON2009-00223): 5658 Ravenspur Drive
Assistant Planner Harwell presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project
and the need for the requested Variance. She stated that staff was recommending
approval of the Variance for the reasons stated in the staff report.
Commissioner Ruttenberg asked staff to explain how the lack of a notice from the Public
Works Department shifts the burden of not complying with the code away from the
Homeowners Association.
Director Rojas explained that the purpose of the recycling grant is to allow the HOA to
improve their common areas. When they are notified that they have received a grant
they are also notified as to what permits and City approvals are needed. In this case
the HOA was told they did not need permits, and they relied on this information and built
the fountain.
Chairman Lewis opened the public hearing.
Grace Yung (representing the HOA) stated she was available to answer any questions.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 13, 2009
Page 4 IS-208