VRC MINS 20021107 • Approved on
December 5, 2002
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
November 7, 2002
Chairman Alberio called the meeting to order at 7:02 P.M. at Fred Hesse
Community Park, 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard. The Pledge of Allegiance
followed, led by Commissioner Weber.
Present: Chairman Alberio, Vice Chairman Slayden, Commissioners Dyda,
Franklin and Weber. Commissioner De Moraes arrived at 7:48 P.M.
Absent: Commissioners Iseda and Drages were absent (excused).
Also present were Project Coordinator John Alvarez and Recording Secretary
(vette Munoz.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman Alberio called for a motion to approve the agenda.
Commissioner Franklin moved to approve the agenda as presented,
seconded by Commissioner Dyda. Motion carried (5-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff:
Project Coordinator Alvarez stated Staff is currently revising the View
Restoration Guidelines revisions. Given the length of the October 3rd meeting
there was a lot of information in the minutes. He also stated that Senior Project
Coordinator Nelson had advised that she would deliver the guideline revisions
tomorrow.
Chairman Alberio stated that Senior Project Coordinator Nelson had called all the
Commissioners today and advised that she would deliver the revised guidelines
tomorrow.
Commission:
Chairman Alberio stated that today all Commissioners had received a call
regarding the Donald Trump breakfast to be held this Saturday at Ocean Trails.
All Commissioners were allowed to bring a guest. They should R.S.V.P. to Toni
Harris if they were going to bring someone.
Commissioner Dyda stated that there was a waiting list for Saturday's event
when he called at 4:30 P.M. that afternoon.
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Chairman Alberio stated he received a call from the Planning Institute regarding
their annual conference. The conference, usually held in Monterey, has been
moved to San Diego. It will be held March 21 and 22, 2003.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
1. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 17, 2002
Chairman Alberio called for a motion regarding the minutes.
Commissioner Slayden moved to approve the minutes as presented,
seconded by Commissioner Dyda. Motion carried (5-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS:
1. VRP No. 132 DODELL
Chairman Alberio stated we would be reviewing VRP No. 132. The applicant is
Martin Dodell who resides at 5751 Capeswood Drive. The foliage owner is Ann
Priest who resides at 26210 Barkstone Drive. This item had been continued from
the October 17th meeting. Commissioner Alberio called for a motion to open the
public hearing. Commissioner Franklin stated that the Staff report needed to be
reviewed first. Chairman Alberio asked Staff to deliver the report.
Project Coordinator Alvarez addressed the Commissioners by presenting Staffs
report for View Restoration Permit Application No. 132. It was continued from
the last VRC meeting due to a lack of quorum. VRP 132 was requested by Mr.
Martin Dodell, view owner at 5751 Capeswood Drive in order to have his view
restored by trimming foliage located at 26210 Barkstone Drive.
He proceeded to give the Commission some background on the case. The case
had been submitted to the View Restoration Staff earlier this year. The foliage
owner, Ms. Anne Priest, had canceled the pre-application meeting. She did not
believe the meeting would be productive. Ms. Priest decided not to attend
tonight's meeting but had given the Commission a written statement identifying
her concerns. Project Coordinator Alvarez noted a reference to a mediation
meeting, which referred to last years pre-application meeting for a preservation
case between the applicant and herself. Commissioner Drages sat in that
meeting. Staff had recently closed that preservation case since the foliage owner
had recently complied with the Notice of Decision.
Staff has conducted site visits to the Dodell and Priest properties and has
identified 2 pine trees on Ms. Priest's property that significantly impair a cityscape
and city light view from Mr. Dodell's viewing area, his dining room and rear yard
patio. In Staffs report, three Aleppo Pine trees are mentioned, however, after
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conducting a site visit to the foliage owner's residence in mid September, Staff
had established that there are 2 pine trees on the Priest property. Staff also
noticed that one Yucca tree may impair the applicant's view, however, because
foliage beyond the subject pine trees is not visible from the applicant's property,
Staff could not confirm whether or not the Yucca tree or any other foliage is
within the view frame. Project Coordinator Alvarez distributed revised Exhibits.
Exhibit C illustrated the revised plot plan with foliage keys and Exhibit B; an
updated photograph showing 2 pine trees. To address foliage that had not been
identified in Staff's report, Staff added a condition (condition No. 4) to the
conditions of approval whereby other view-impairing foliage on the Priest
property would be trimmed.
In reference to Ms. Priest's letter, Staff agreed that in order to restore the view of
the city lights, the pine trees need not be removed or topped. Staff, however
recommended that the 2 pine trees be trimmed by raising the crown of the pines
to the level illustrated in revised photo exhibit B. The revised exhibit showed the
correct labeling for both pine trees. The dotted line also represented the upper
boundary of the city light view.
Staff concluded their report, which recommended the approval of View
Restoration Permit application No. 132 and the Conditions of Approval with the
omission of Condition No. 3. Project Coordinator Alvarez noted that the applicant
was in the audience and available for questions.
Chairman Alberio asked Commissioner Dyda if he was going to recuse himself
from the discussion. Commissioner Dyda said he would as soon as the public
hearing was opened.
Commissioner Franklin noted that we are in the process of revising guidelines.
The revised guidelines will have the pay once policy. The current guidelines allow
for the foliage owner to request that the trees not be removed and if they die
within a year the applicant pays for the trees to be replaced. The new guidelines
say that you pay in the beginning one of those two times. Commissioner
Franklin's question was which guidelines would apply in this case.
Chairman Alberio stated that the new guidelines have nothing to do with this
case. Only the current guidelines would apply to this case.
Commissioner Franklin restated that his question was if Staff felt that the new
guidelines would apply a year from now if they were approved.
Project Coordinator Alvarez stated Chairman Alberio was correct. The revised
guidelines, if and when approved, will have no bearing on this case.
Commissioner Franklin stated that on the revised exhibits Project Coordinator
Alvarez had just passed out, the trees had been relabeled. Tree number 1 was
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formally the tree to the left. Tree number 2 is now called tree number 1. Tree
number 2 is the same tree as number 1. Trees 1 and 2 are the same. Tree
number 1 is really to the left of these trees.
Commissioner Weber asked for confirmation on the application covering 2 not 3
trees. Project Coordinator Alvarez confirmed there are 2 trees. He explained that
in revised exhibit B he shifted the tree numbers to the right. What he originally
thought was a third tree is really part of the crown of tree number 2.
Commissioner Franklin stated that there are only 2 trees in question. He stated
that the trees in the revised Exhibit B were mislabeled. Chairman Alberio asked
how many trees were involved. Project Coordinator Alvarez responded stating
that after conducting his last site visit he stands by his revised Exhibit B with 2
trees. Commissioner Slayden agreed that there are 2 pine trees. Commissioner
Franklin stated that he had also visited the foliage owner's property and he had
come away with a different impression.
Commissioner Weber questioned a palm tree seen in Exhibit B. Project
Coordinator Alvarez stated that the palm tree is located on a different property
and is not part of the application. Commissioner Weber said he had visited Ms.
Priest's property and seen a number of Cypress trees that would shortly be
impairing Mr. Dodell's view. He asked whether those were relevant. Project
Coordinator Alvarez responded that the Cypress trees were not on her property
and not part of this application. He also stated Mr. Dodell had expressed that he
was already working with his neighbor to address those Cypress trees via a
private agreement. Commissioner Dyda wanted to clarify that those Cypress
trees do not currently impact Mr. Dodell's view.
Project Coordinator Alvarez stated he could not confirm whether they did or didn't
impact the view. The density of the 2 pine trees prevents other foliage from being
assessed as view impairments. Commissioner Dyda said he asked the question
because he wanted to know if these Cypress trees would fall under restoration or
preservation.
Chairman Alberio asked if any of these trees were on public rights of way. Project
Coordinator Alvarez responded that as far as he could tell, they were not. After
the pine trees were trimmed, Staff would make a better assessment.
Commissioner Weber pointed out a tall thin tree on a neighbor's property.
Chairman Alberio stated it is not a tree. It is a shrub. Project Coordinator Alvarez
commented that Mr. Dodell has an agreement with that neighbor to trim down the
hedge, which that particular plant is a part of.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
1. VRP No. 132 DODELL
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COMMISSIONER SLAYDEN MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING,
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN.
Commissioner Dyda recused himself from the discussion. He lives within 300
feet from the applicant's property.
Chairman Alberio asked Mr. Dodell to take the podium and introduce himself and
state his address.
Mr. Martin Dodell, applicant and owner of the property located at 5751
Capeswood Drive, opened by thanking the Commissioners for their site visits. He
also thanked Staff for their professionalism yet, strongly disagreed with Staffs
recommendation. Mr. Dodell felt the recommendation does not comply with or
meet the intent of the Ordinance nor does it restore his near view. He believed
that the foliage in question was in violation of the height limitations set by the
Ordinance. His opinion is that if the Staff recommendation is followed, the
trimming would leave an aesthetically displeasing set of bare poles in place and
not restore his near views. He felt Staff had drawn an arbitrary line across the
tops of the trees and identified that point to raise the crown. The trees had
previously been topped and had grown back so trimming would not resolve the
issue.
Mr. Dodell distributed to the Commission a nighttime photograph he took of his
city lights view. He felt this would give the Commission a better understanding of
the extent of the view. He asked that the Commission consider that after
trimming, the trees would still be in excess of 16 feet or the ridgeline of the
foliage owner's residence. He passed out two additional photographs taken from
a neighbor's property. He restated that the dotted line in Staffs report across the
trees was vague, arbitrary and extremely imprecise. He posed several questions
to the Commission. How high up should that line be? Where will it be measured?
He claimed the two photographs taken by Staff seemed to be taken from a
different elevation and perspective. He said all these factors contribute to a lack
of precision making it very difficult to implement Staff's recommendations.
He asked if the trim line had some sort of reference? He believed that typically
what happens is the reference point is established at the grade of the back yard
of the applicant's lot. He concluded that if this line would be made to that grade
level Staffs dotted line would definitely be lower. He felt Staffs recommendation
would not solve the view impairment and only cause additional costs and future
conflicts.
He feared that if the Commission approved Staffs recommendation as
presented, then in 2 more years the foliage would grow back into his view. The
cost to do the trimming recommended by Staff is the least expensive of the costs
he would be confronted with. Alternatively, he proposed to pay for the removal of
these trees and substituting foliage to provide something aesthetically pleasing.
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He had been negotiating this with the foliage owner for about 13 years in an
effort to come to some sort of reasonable accommodation. Mr. Dodell advised
the Commission to adopt option number 2, which orders the removal of the trees.
He stated that if the only solution was to trim, then there would not have been an
option 2 available.
His final issue related to the guideline's compliance procedures. Based on the
statement in the Staff report and the current procedure, if the Commission
chooses to vote for option 2 to remove the trees, the foliage owner can refuse to
accept it and can impose a total veto on the said action. He believed that this is
unfair because the foliage owner can refuse to comply with the Commission's
order, leaving he and the Commission without recourse. In his opinion, that is to
be a poor legacy to leave for the Planning Commissioners down the road when
the VRC is disbanded. He understood the veto was in place because of the
possibility of the trimmed tree dying even though there is a procedure in place for
the applicant to deal with that situation.
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Dodell to conclude up his statements. Mr.
Dodell thanked the Commission for their time and asked them to consider option
2 for condition 1 and 2.
Commissioner Weber stated that the dotted line was there because above that
point there is no view to be preserved. Mr. Dodell responded by pointing out that
the Santa Monica Mountains would be visible if trimming occurred above that
point.
Commissioner Weber asked Mr. Dodell if he wanted a 100% view. Mr. Dodell
responded that he wanted the trees removed and be replaced with foliage that
conforms to the City's list. He stated that if the Commission wanted to call it
100% of the view, then yes, that is what he wanted. He emphasized that
trimming would not restore the view. He felt that trimming would not comply with
the Ordinance or meet it's requirements. It violates the 16-foot level ridgeline
requirement and would leave an aesthetically displeasing situation.
Commissioner Weber stated that was Mr. Dodell's opinion. He felt that the foliage
owner, according to her letter, clearly enjoyed her trees and finds them
aesthetically pleasing. Commissioner Weber clarified that the 16-foot
measurement only covers protected views.
Mr. Dodell stated that his point was that the view he is asking to be restored is
not a sky view. It is a city light view.
Project Coordinator Alvarez stated that both conditions are basically the ones
used in the past as a standard option with the foliage owner's consent that the
tree be removed.
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Commissioner Franklin stated the Commission had no choice but to include
option 1 and option 2. The only choice they have is to revise the wording of
option 1. The guidelines do not give them the authority to order the removal of a
tree unless the owner consents to it and the city arborist agrees the tree will die if
it is trimmed. He advised Mr. Dodell to rephrase some of his concerns because
the Commission has no choice. They cannot opt for option 2, the only choice the
Commission has is to rephrase option 1. He asked Mr. Dodell for his views on
rephrasing option 1.
Mr. Dodell stated he wouldn't rephrase it. He did not accept Commissioner
Franklin's reasoning. He felt option 2 was a valid finding the Commission could
make. Subsequent to the finding the foliage owner may not chose to accept it
enacting a veto.
Commissioner Franklin explained this was something the Commission had
worked out over many cases. He indicated Staff was following the direction of
the Commission by providing both options. If the Commission chose to go with
option 2 it had to be with the foliage owner's consent.
Chairman Alberio tried to clarify the point by explaining that the Commission
must work with the existing guidelines therefore, it must be with the consent of
the foliage owner.
Commissioner Slayden stated Mr. Dodell had a point. If the Commission
recommended option 2 and the foliage owner didn't agree then the issue would
come back to the Commission.
Commissioner Franklin stated that if the foliage owner did not consent to the
removal of the trees, then Mr. Dodell has option 1 as an alternative.
Commissioner Slayden said the Commission did not know how the foliage owner
would react.
Chairman Alberio stated that the Commission did know her position. She had
already indicated it in her letter that she doesn't want the trees removed.
Commissioner Franklin stated the requirement that had been worked out in past
cases was to come up with a procedure that may kill a tree but restore a view. If
it potentially kills the tree the foliage owner may wish to just entirely remove it.
The Commission could not order it to be removed per City Council's direction. It
is incumbent upon the Commission to provide direction such as how to rephrase
option 1.
Commissioner Slayden said the Commission has the option to cut down the tree
to the specified line, even if it kills it.
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COMMISSIONER FRANKLIN MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING,
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WEBER.
Chairman Alberio asked the Commission for discussion on VRP No. 132.
Commissioner Franklin stated he had given this case a lot of thought and had
come prepared for a slightly different configuration. He had a problem with the
term foliage. By definition, foliage includes all branches and everything below in
addition to the trunk. If you follow the wording technically, if you remove the
foliage, you're basically removing all the support structure for the upper leaves.
He introduced the term, scaffold branch. A scaffold branch is a branch that
supports smaller branches and foliage. Removing the scaffolding branches
essential would mean removing the entire tree. In his view, this is not the intent of
Staffs recommendation. He suggested the scaffold branches be thinned out. He
suggested leaving it up to the foliage owner to choose which scaffold branches
remain. In regards to the height of the dotted line, he pointed out the 3 branches
sticking out on the left hand side. He felt the dotted line was fine because it was
at the limit of the city light view and is consistent with the pictures Mr. Dodell
passed out.
Project Coordinator Alvarez stated Commissioner Franklin's assessment was
correct. He referred to the three arm-like foliage branches coming out of the left
hand side of tree number 1. That is the reference point for trimming in all the
photographs.
Commissioner Franklin accepted the dotted line as being correct. In order to
preserve the view almost all the branches below the dotted line should be
trimmed for tree number 1.
Commissioner Weber agreed with Staffs recommendation. He disagreed with
Dodell's proposal, which would require the foliage owner to remove the trees. He
suggested that the recommendation for tree number 2 be amended it to include
the removal of the first lower left scaffolding branch and leave at least 4
scaffolding branches to be identified by the foliage owner.
COMMISSIONER WEBER MOVED TO ADOPT VRC RESOLUTION 2002-07
THEREBY APPROVING VRP NO. 132 AS AMENDED, SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER SLAYDEN. MOTION CARRIED (3-2) WITH CHAIRMAN
ALBERIO AND COMMISSIONER DE MORAES DISSENTING.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:15 P.M. Chairman Alberio requested a short recess. We reconvened at 8:20
P.M. During this recess Vice-Chairman Slayden left the meeting.
NEW BUSINESS:
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Commissioner De Moraes presented the Commissioners and Staff with a memo
regarding additional concerns that ought to be addressed in the revised
guidelines.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS:
1. VIEW RESTORATION GUIDELINE REVISIONS November 21, 2002
2. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 3, 2002 November 21, 2002
3. MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 7, 2002 November 21, 2002
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items):
NONE.
ADJOURNMENT:
Commissioner Weber moved to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner
Franklin. The meeting was duly adjourned at 8:30 P.M.
The next regular meeting is tentatively scheduled for Thursday, November 21,
2002, at 7:00 P.M. at Hesse Park.
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