VRC MINS 19980507 APPROVED JUNE 4, 1998
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 7, 1998
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Long at 7:05 P.M at Hesse Park
Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard. The Pledge of Allegiance followed,
led by Commissioner Black.
PRESENT: Commissioners Black, Kipper, Mehlman, Vice Chair Sweetnam, Chair
Long. Commissioner Mueller arrived at 7:08 P.M., Commissioner A.
Green arrived at 7:15 P.M., and Commissioner R. Green arrived at 7:50
P.M.
ABSENT: Commissioner Drages (excused) and Commissioner McBride
Also present were Acting Director of Planning, Building and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Project Coordinator Nelson, Project Coordinator Ursu, and Recording Secretary
Peterson.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Vice Chair Sweetnam moved to approve the agenda as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Black. Approved, (5-0)
COMMUNICATIONS
Acting Director Rojas distributed a letter from the Palos Verdes Unified School District
relating to VRP No. 48. He explained that the City Council would, at their next meeting,
have a closed session item discussing the school district actions and how to proceed
on the pending appeal.
Vice Chair Sweetnam commented on the letter the Commissioners received from Mr.
Banta regarding VRP No. 48.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1998
Vice Chair Sweetnam pointed out a typographical error on page 2.
On page 3 of the minutes, Commissioner Kipper commented that a statement made by
Commissioner Mehlman was actually made by Commissioner Kipper.
Commissioner Mehlman agreed.
Commissioner Kipper pointed out a typographical error on page 5.
Commissioner Kipper felt that on page 7 of the minutes the record should reflect that
Mr. Welch distributed a diagram rather than a photograph.
On page 8, Commissioner Kipper did not feel that a statement by Acting Director Rojas
made sense.
Acting Director Rojas stated staff would clarify the statement.
Commissioner Kipper pointed out a grammatical error on page 14. She also disagreed
with the vote recorded in the minutes. She felt that she had voted no on the item rather
than yes.
Acting Director Rojas stated staff would review the tape of the meeting, and unless the
tape reflected a different outcome on the vote, the vote recorded in the minutes could
not be amended.
Chair Long requested staff report back to him as to what was heard on the tape. He
also requested that at the time he signs a Resolution, the vote be recorded on the
Resolution.
Commissioner Black moved to adopt the minutes as amended, seconded by Vice
Chair Sweetnam. Adopted, (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 57: Dr. and Mrs. Harbans Bhatia, 30237
Avenida De Calma (EU)
Staff polled the Commission as to who had visited the site. All seven of the
Commissioners present had visited the site, therefore all would participate.
Chair Long opened the public hearing.
Chair Long asked the applicant and foliage owner if five minutes for their presentation
and three minutes for rebuttal would be sufficient time.
Mr. Wheeler responded that he might need as much as ten minutes for his
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presentation.
Chair Long stated that the applicant and foliage owner would therefore get 10 minutes
for presentation and three minutes for rebuttal, and he would strictly enforce these time
limits.
Project Coordinator Ursu presented the staff report. He reported that staff had
requested the city arborist visit the site to determine if any trees could be saved after
they were trimmed to a level low enough to restore the view from the applicant's
property. The arborist determined the pine tree nearest the bottom of the slope can be
trimmed without jeopardizing the life of the tree. Further, regarding the trees on the
slope, the city geologist had visited the site and recommended, if the trees were to be
removed, that replacement foliage be planted and the root system of the trees to be cut
be left in place.
Dr. Harbans Bhatia (applicant) 30237 Avenida De Calma distributed pictures to the
Commission showing the view from his property. He stated he moved into his house in
1964 and at that time there was no vegetation. He had requested the foliage owner's
trim their vegetation in the past and he had paid to have it done. He stated that this
time when the trees were trimmed his view was not restored. That is why he submitted
his view restoration application.
Randy Wheeler (representing the foliage owner) 30220 Calle De Suenos commented
that he was concerned about the easement that would be placed on the property as a
result of the view restoration permit. He did not feel it was fair to have something like
this on the title or to have to disclose it when selling the house, possibly making the
house less desirable to a potential buyer. He had no objection to the removal and
replacement of the three trees in the rear. He did not feel the privacy of his family was
taken into account. He stated that the applicant may not be able to see directly into his
house, however they would have a much greater view of the applicant's house. He
stated that his family had put a lot of thought and care into the backyard landscaping
and questioned who would make the determination as to whether a trimmed tree was
actually dying or dead after the trimming. He felt the applicant should pay to have the
dead tree removed from the property and replaced. He also objected to a 15 gallon
replacement tree for a 27 year old tree. He requested the replacement tree be larger.
Daria Wheeler (representing the foliage owner) 30220 Calle De Suenos commented
that she did not understand why it was more important for the applicant to have a view
of the ocean than it was for her family to have their garden. She commented that her
family had purchased the trees, paid landscapers to plant the trees and had cared for
the trees for 27 years. She stated that they had trimmed the trees on a regular basis.
She stated that the tree in question provided an enormous amount of shade to the
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house and yard in the summer. Finally, she stated she was confused as to why the
trees had to be trimmed to the level of the applicant's pad. She felt if trees were
trimmed to the level of the pad, the applicant would have to lie on the ground to have
their view obstructed. Why can't the trees be trimmed to a height slightly above the pad
level.
Dr. Bhatia (in rebuttal) commented that he would take full responsibility for any trees
that died due to trimming, but would not pay for any trees or foliage that died due to
neglect.
Mrs. Wheeler (in rebuttal) commented that she did not understand Dr. Bhatia's
comment about neglect.
Vice Chair Sweetnam asked Mr. Wheeler if tree #4 had been trimmed into the beautiful
dome shape it was growing in, or if it grew that way naturally.
Mr. Wheeler answered that it had been trimmed to that shape.
Chair Long asked Mr. Wheeler to clarify if he was objecting to having the three trees,
excluding tree #4, removed and replaced.
Mr. Wheeler responded that he did not object, and further, if the three trees were
trimmed or removed, tree #4 may not present too much of a view blockage to the
applicant.
Chair Long asked Mr. Wheeler what type of replacement he would prefer if the three
trees were removed.
Mr. Wheeler answered that they had not really discussed it, but they were thinking of
possibly some type of bush. His objective would be to have some type of privacy
screen at the top of the slope.
Commissioner Mueller commented that he had noticed a shrub already at the top of the
fence. He was wondering if that should be included in the foliage, as it was growing
rather high at what appeared to be a rapid rate.
Commissioner Kipper wondered if the shrub was on the foliage owner's property.
Commissioner Kipper also asked for clarification as to whether the top of the chair link
fence was equal to the bottom of the applicant's building pad.
Project Coordinator Ursu answered that there were two chain link fences on the
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property. The fence at the top of the foliage owner's property cannot be seen from the
applicant's viewing area. He felt the applicant's pad was one to three feet above the
chain link fence.
Mrs. Wheeler again asked for clarification as to why trees were to be trimmed to the
height of the pad level, rather than a little higher.
Chair Long responded that under the guidelines, the view is assessed from where
people sit. Also, if trees are ordered to be trimmed right to the minimum amount that
restores the view, then the trimming necessary to maintain the view becomes much
more frequent.
Vice Chair Sweetnam added that a view isn't strictly horizontal. If one is on a hill and
the view is actually looking down a little, not straight out.
Commissioner Kipper commented that Dr. Bhatia has a hedge growing along the edge
of his property and the hedge appears to be two or two and one half feet high. She felt
it was unreasonable to cut the tree below Dr. Bhatia's hedge level. Why take a chance
on killing the tree if you could give it an extra two feet. The tree may not be below the
pad level, but it would be below the hedge level.
Chair Long asked the foliage owners if they would rather trim the tree at a slightly
higher level, giving it a somewhat better chance of surviving and have to trim the tree
more frequently, or trim the tree more severely initially but then trim it less often to
maintain it.
Mr. Wheeler responded that the initial trim should be trimmed to a maximum height it
could be to give the tree every opportunity to live. He felt that maybe the next year it
was to be trimmed it could be trimmed a little lower.
Chair Long wondered how quickly an Aleppo pine grew annually.
Commissioner Kipper felt that since the tree had been trimmed twice before, and the
foliage owners know when the tree was trimmed, there should be some estimate as to
how many feet a year it has been growing.
Mr. Wheeler felt it had grown approximately six inches since It was trimmed eight
months ago. However, that was new foliage and he could not be sure how much the
actual tree trunk and branches had grown.
Vice Chair Sweetnam felt that the tree was dome shaped and it could possible be
flattened out on top, still maintain it's dome shape, and possibly restore Dr. Bhatia's
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view.
Mrs. Wheeler responded that, in her research on the Net and in discussions with
arborists, pine trees were designed never to be topped. Staff recommended a full third
of the tree be trimmed off. She felt that after the pine trees at the top of the slope are
removed, ten to twelve feet off of the top of the tree would not be necessary. She didn't
understand why the city arborist came to her property and said ten to twelve feet off of
the top of the tree should be fine, when three other arborists had told her that the tree
will die if that much is removed. She further stated that if the tree were to be trimmed
and died, staffs recommendation of a 15 gallon replacement tree was completely
unacceptable.
Commissioner Black asked Mrs. Wheeler if a 24 inch box tree would be an acceptable
replacement.
Mrs. Wheeler responded that she was not sure, but it sounded more reasonable.
Commissioner Black asked Mrs. Wheeler if she would rather replace the tree now or
trim the tree and see what happens.
Mrs. Wheeler answered that she would rather trim the tree and try to give it a chance to
live.
Commissioner Kipper asked Dr. Bhatia if, after the three pines were removed, he might
consider accepting lacing only of the fourth Allepo Pine.
Dr. Bhatia responded that it would be a possibility as long as he had some of his view
restored.
Commissioner Mueller asked Dr. Bhatia about the shrub growing at the top of the slope
and if it was on his property.
Dr. Bhatia commented that it was a weed that just starting growing, and that it was
possibly on the foliage owner's side of the fence. He did not feel the shrub was any
problem and could easily be cut down.
Commissioner A. Green asked staff to clarify if this process was creating an easement
on the foliage owner's property.
Acting Director Rojas answered that the City Attorney had stated that the view
restoration process does not result in the creation of an easement over a piece of
property and in fact, the Tiburon court case had upheld that decision.
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Commissioner A. Green then asked for clarification regarding disclosure when selling a
home.
Chair Long answered that the law applied to everyone in the city and there was no
burden of disclosure.
Vice Chair Sweetnam moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Black. There being no objection, the public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Mueller asked staff how much of tree #4 would need to be trimmed to
restore the applicant's view.
Project Coordinator Ursu responded that pine tree #4 was approximately 6 to 8 feet
above the applicant's pad level, therefore only 6 to 8 feet would have to be trimmed.
Commissioner Black suggested that regarding tree #4 the Commission order that next
November the tree be either trimmed or removed and replaced with a 24 inch box tree.
Project Coordinator Ursu stated that staff would be able to modify the wording in the
Resolution regarding tree #4 to say the foliage owner shall, no later than 90 days after
November 1, 1998, complete the work.
Vice Chair Sweetnam stated that the Resolution would need to be changed regarding
the replacement of tree #4. The wording should state it will be replaced with up to a 24
inch box tree.
Commissioner A. Green moved to adopt the Resolution, as amended, seconded
by Commissioner Black. Adopted VRP Resolution 98-05 as amended (7-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:35 P.M. the Commission to a short recess to 8:45 P.M. at which time they
reconvened.
NEW BUSINESS
3. MEDIATION GUIDELINES
Project Coordinator Nelson began by explaining the Commission had received an
outline of mediation guidelines for early neighborhood consultation process and view
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restoration preliminary notice meetings. Staff was not able to distribute the full
guidelines tonight because they were still waiting for input from the city attorney. Ms.
Nelson reported that the City Attorney had commented that in putting mediation
guidelines together and mediation in the sense of formal mediation, was not the
direction the City Council had intended to go. The City Attorney indicated that if the
Commission does adopt guidelines that address a formal mediation process, those
guidelines will need to go back to the City Council for review before they are adopted.
A brief discussion followed regarding the mediation guidelines
Project Coordinator Nelson stated that there were two early neighborhood consultations
coming up that needed a Commissioner to attend. She stated the first one was an
early neighborhood consultation for VRP 58 on May 15 at 3:30 and the second one is
VRP 59 scheduled for May 22 at any time. There was also a notice of preliminary
decision for View Preservation Application No. 2 that was open as to what day the
meeting would be held.
Following the rotation, it was determined that Commissioner R. Green would be
available to attend the meeting for VRP 58 and Commissioner A. Green would attend
the May 22 meeting. It was determined that staff would contact Commissioner
McBride and Commissioner Drages to see if they would be available to attend the
meeting for the View Preservation Application.
4. REPLACEMENT TREE LIST
Acting Director Rojas explained that this list was a suggested list of acceptable
replacement foliage that staff could hand out to foliage owners. He explained that this
list was a start for the foliage owner, but by no means a complete list.
In reviewing the tree list, Commissioner Kipper suggested additional information be
added regarding sunlight and shade requirements.
A brief discussion followed regarding the replacement tree list.
Vice Chair Sweetnam suggested staff compile a list of trees that have been removed,
topped or laced in the city as a result of a view restoration permit.
Commissioner A. Green added that would be useful as well as the list of trees the City
of Tiburon had compiled that caused view problems.
Vice Chair Sweetnam suggested that staff look into any way the city can get some type
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of credit for the green waste being generated by the trees that are ordered cut by the
Commission.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Chair Long requested that the information requested be presented on a future agenda.
He also requested a presentation by staff showing before and after pictures of a couple
of completed VRP applications. He thought it would be good to see a picture of one
that worked out well and one that may not have worked out too well.
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner R. Green moved to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner Black.
The meeting was duly adjourned at 9:30 P.M. to Thursday, June 4, 1998.
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