VRC MINS 19970619 0 0 APPROVED 7/24/97
CP
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 19, 1997
The meeting was called to order by Vice Chair Sweetnam at 7:00 P.M. at Hesse Park
Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard. The Pledge of Allegiance followed,
led by Commissioner Boudreau.
PRESENT: Commissioners Black, Boudreau, Goern, A. Green, Long, Marshall,
Karmelich, Vice Chair Sweetnam
ABSENT: Chair R. Green (excused)
Also present were Principal Planer Rojas, Project Coordinator Nelson, Project
Coordinator Ursu, and Recording Secretary Atuatasi.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Boudreau moved to accept the agenda as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Goern. Approved, (8-0)
COMMUNICATIONS
Principal Planner Rojas distributed copies of the View Restoration Ordinance from the
town of Tiburon and copies of the City's newly adopted City Tree Review Ordinance.
Commissioner A. Green reported on a conversation he had with the applicant of V.R.C.
Permit 38, Ms. Bonnie Hoenisch, who informed him that she was not aware of the fact
that once the Commission had ruled on an application the applicant still had the option
to withdraw selected trees or foliage from the findings and continue to have the rest of
the findings taken care of. Because of the lack of this knowledge, she had elected to
keep several trees on the foliage owners property out of her application because she
was afraid the cost of the entire removal would be too high. Commissioner Green
reported that he had explained to Ms. Hoenisch the fact that she had 30 days from the
adoption of the Resolution to decide which trees or foliage she would like to have
removed and which she would like to withdraw from the application.
APPROVAL OF CONSENT CALENDAR
1. MINUTES OF MAY 1, 1997
Commissioner A. Green pointed out a minor correction on page 4, paragraph 4,
indicating that it should be clarified that it was Commissioner A. Green making the
comments.
Commissioner A. Green moved to adopt the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Goern. Approved, (8-0).
2. MINUTES OF MAY 15, 1997
Commissioner Black pointed out a grammatical error on page 4.
Commissioner A. Green pointed out an error on the time of adjournment.
Commissioner Boudreau moved to adopt the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner A. Green. Approved, (8-0).
3. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 28 - RESOLUTION
Principal Planner Rojas informed the Vice Chair that there were two speakers who
wished to comment on this item.
Vice Chair Sweetnam felt it would be easiest to first go through the Resolution, then
hear comments from the speakers.
Commissioner A. Green pointed out that on page 2 of the Resolution, Section 5, the
fourth line should read "25 feet", rather than 925 feet. Section 11, fourth line was not
consistent with the rest of the Resolution. Rubber Trees 1, 2 and 3 were to be
removed, not trimmed or topped.
Principal Planner Rojas explained that the audience comments on this item would
actually be directed at the Consent Calendar since this item was on the Consent
Calendar portion of the agenda. Based on the comments, the Commission could then
vote to remove the item from the Consent Calendar to discuss it as part of the agenda.
Mr. Richard Denno (applicant), commented that he was speaking in support of the
Resolution.
Mrs. Jenny Cotrufo (foliage owner), commented that she would rather have the
avocado and Podocarpus trees removed, Hibiscus tree trimmed to the ridgeline of the
residence, and the unknown tree topped and maintained.
Principal Planner Rojas reminded the Commission they could now vote to move this
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
JUNE 19, 1997
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item off of the Consent Calendar and on to the agenda for further discussion, but he
cautioned the Commission that any discussion would need to be limited to the language
of the Resolution, making sure the Resolution was consistent with the prior decision
made. If there was a desire to change the decision in any manner, there would then be
a need for a notice of public hearing.
Vice Chair Sweetnam felt that there was no reason to make a change to the Resolution
since the way it was currently worded reflected an option for the foliage owner to either
trim the trees or remove them.
Commissioner A. Green questioned whether the rubber trees were to be removed or
topped, as the Resolution did not give the foliage owner the option.
Commissioner A. Green moved to move View Restoration Permit No. 28-
Resolution from the Consent Calendar to the Agenda (Item No. 6) for further
discussion, seconded by Commissioner Boudreau. Approved, (7-1) with
Commissioner Long objecting.
4. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 32 -RESOLUTION
After reviewing the Resolution and attachments Vice Chair Sweetnam asked Staff if
there were any speakers on this item.
Mr. John Bannister (applicant) read a letter he received from the Ridgegate
Condominium Association stating that the trees and foliage in question would be
trimmed or removed on or before the middle of June. Mr. Bannister recalled that it had
been agreed at the last View Restoration Commission meeting that the trees would be
removed rather than trimmed. He also felt that the trees would not be trimmed down to
a level low enough to restore his view.
Commissioner A. Green moved to move View Restoration Permit No. 32-
Resolution from the Consent Calendar to the Agenda (Item No. 7) for further
discussion, seconded by Commissioner Marshall.
Commissioner Long objected to the motion by stating that the Commission was
empowered under Ordinance 319 to make the order for the removal of a tree or foliage
if the foliage owner consented to the removal. In the case of Item No. 3 and Item No. 4,
the foliage owners had agreed to removal at the time of the public hearing, and since
the Commission could not at this time change the decision without a new notice and
public hearing, he did not see the need to remove the items from the Consent
Calendar.
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Commissioner A. Green responded that in all of the past decisions from the View
Restoration Commission the Resolutions were worded in such a way as to give the
foliage owner the option to have the tree or foliage trimmed to a specified height or
removed. He felt that since that language was not included in this Resolution the
Commission was obligated to reopen the item for discussion.
Commissioner Long urged the Commissioners to leave this item on the Consent
Calendar and agree that if an agreement was made in an open public hearing the
Commission was going to hold the parties to that agreement. Allowing the items to be
further discussed and re-examined was allowing the parties involved to retract consent
they had already given.
Vice Chair Sweetnam asked for a vote on the motion before the Commission.
The motion to remove View Restoration Permit No. 32-Resolution from the Consent
Calendar failed by a vote of 3-5 with Commissioners Long, Boudreau, Marshall, Goern,
and Black dissenting.
Commissioner Long moved to place Item No. 6 (View Restoration Permit No. 28-
Resolution) back on to the Consent Calendar by the same rational as used for
Item No. 7, seconded by Commissioner Black.
Vice Chair Sweetnam felt that Item No. 6 needed further clarification from the foliage
owner, who was present at this meeting, as to the status of her rubber trees.
Commissioner Long agreed and withdrew his motion.
Vice Chair Sweetnam reviewed the findings of the Resolution for View Restoration
Permit No. 32. He included Commissioner A. Green's comments that the Commission
did not have the authority to remove trees or foliage without the foliage owner's
consent. However, he felt clarification was needed as to whether the foliage owners
had agreed to remove the trees and foliage during the public hearing.
Commissioner A. Green felt the problem with the Resolution was that nowhere in the
Resolution did it state what was going to happen to each individual tree.
Commissioner Long responded that Exhibit A stated that all trees were going to be
removed. He further stated that in reviewing the minutes of May 15, 1997 on page 8
the President of the Homeowners Association stated the Homeowners Association was
willing to have all of the trees in question removed, thereby giving their consent.
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1111
Commissioner Long made a motion to adopt V.R.C. Resolution 97-9 as amended,
for View Restoration Permit No. 32, seconded by Commissioner Black.
Approved, (6-1) with Commissioner A. Green dissenting.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 38: Ms. Bonnie Hoenisch, 6343 Rio
Linda Drive (EU)
Project Coordinator Ursu presented the staff report explaining that, while the applicant
felt all seven trees in the application created a significant view impairment, staff had
determined that the two Purple Leaf Acacia shrubs, the two Eucalyptus trees, and the
Liquid Amber tree (which was not included on the application) created a significant view
impairment. All the view impairing foliage was located in the rear yard. One eucalyptus
tree and two Acacia trees were excluded from the application because they did not
impair a protected view. Staff determined that development in Palos Verdes Estates
and vegetation outside the City limits caused the view impairment of city lights, not the
Eucalyptus and Acacia. Mr. Ursu further reported that the foliage owner had expressed
concern over the loss of privacy if the two Purple Leaf Acacia shrubs were removed.
Commissioner A. Green asked staff why they recommended the liquid amber tree's
crown be reduced 18 inches and laced, and not be reduced to the ridgeline.
Project Coordinator Ursu responded that the Liquid Amber should be laced and
trimmed back rather than topped because it would look better aesthetically and lacing
would allow the applicant a view through the foliage. Furthermore, topping the Liquid
Amber tree would restore a view of the sky, not the ocean.
Before opening the public hearing, Vice Chair Sweetnam polled the Commissioners on
who had visited the site. All Commissioners had visited the site. Since Chair R. Green
was not present at the meeting, Commissioner Long would be voting on this
application.
Commissioner Boudreau moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Black. The motion was passed without objection.
Bonnie Hoenisch (applicant) 6343 Rio Linda Drive, distributed pictures to the
Commission and explained that the major selling point of this property when they
purchased it in 1964 was the view. They paid considerably more for the property
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because of the view at that time. Ms. Hoenisch felt that privacy was not an issue since
they could presently see very easily into the foliage owners back yard, patio, living
room, bathroom, and bedroom windows. She further stated that she disagreed with
Exhibit A of the Resolution regarding the omission of the trees in her application.
Commissioner A. Green asked Ms. Hoenisch if the three trees on her property not
identified in the application, a 30 foot Acacia tree, a 30 foot Eucalyptus tree, and an 18
foot Acacia tree, all on the right side of the property, should be included in the
application.
Ms. Hoenisch replied that she would like these trees to be included in the application
and that they should be trimmed or laced.
Mary Julie Hessick (foliage owner) 6318 Monero Drive, began by stating when they
moved into their house 25 years ago all of the trees and foliage was small and had
grown over 25 years. She felt that they have maintained their property and have
already removed a Sugar Pine, 3 Acacias, 2 Liquid Amber trees, and a Pepper tree.
They have continually maintained and trimmed their trees over the years. Ms. Hessick
further stated that the trees in the back yard not only provided privacy but gave shade
to the yard and house during the day. She agreed to the trimming of the Hop Seed
shrubs, but did not want them removed because of the privacy issue. The two
Eucalyptus and the Liquid Amber she also agreed to trim, but wanted to point out that
the Liquid Amber does lose it's leaves and is leafless 6 months out of the year.
Commissioner Boudreau asked for clarification regarding the Acacia and Hop Seed.
Ms. Hessick replied that what Mr. Ursu referred to as Purple Leaf Acacia shrubs were
actually Hop Seed bushes.
Commissioner Marshall asked how much of the Hop Seed was specified to be topped.
Ms. Hessick answered that staff had specified topping the Hop Seed two feet above the
pad of the applicant's property, and that was acceptable to her.
Commissioner Boudreau asked Ms. Hessick about trimming or topping the Acacia on
the back of the property.
Commissioner A. Green clarified that the tree Commissioner Boudreau was referring to
was not included in the application.
Project Coordinator Ursu further clarified that staff had excluded that Acacia from the
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
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application, since if the tree was trimmed, the view of the city lights would still be
blocked by foliage and structures outside of the city limits.
Ms. Hessick added that according to Sunset Western Garden Book, that type of tree
generally has a life span of 25 years. This tree is 35 years old now, and she was very
concerned that if it is cut in any way it will not come back.
Principal Planner Rojas clarified for the Commission that the tree being discussed was
actually part of the application, however Staff did not recommend any action on the tree
and therefore it was not included in the recommendations. If the Commission disagrees
with Staffs recommendation, it may take action on the tree, since the tree is technically
part of the application.
Commissioner A. Green felt it would be helpful if, in future staff reports, all trees are
included in the recommendations whether or not any action was being recommended
by Staff.
Commissioner A. Green moved to close the Public Hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Goern. There being no objection, the public hearing was closed.
Commissioner A. Green asked staff, specifically regarding the applicant's view loss of
the city lights to the north, for a more detailed analysis on how staff came to its
conclusions. Specifically, what percentage of that view was gone and what was
currently blocking that view.
Project Coordinator Ursu distributed pictures taken by the applicant in the early 1960's.
He pointed out in the pictures where he and Project Coordinator Nelson had stood and
where they had looked to see if they could view city lights. He explained there is now
vegetation that is outside the city limit line that eliminates all of the city light view. There
is also a large house in Palos Verdes Estates that blocks the view.
Commissioner Boudreau felt that if you top the Acacia tree it would make no difference
to the foliage owner as far as privacy, but would open up a view of city lights for the
applicant.
Commissioner Black agreed that she saw no privacy issue with the Acacia tree.
Commissioner A. Green stated that the only privacy issue was the Hop Seed bushes,
which do an excellent job in protecting the foliage owners privacy.
Commissioner Boudreau asked what it would take to top the Acacia down to the top of
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
JUNE 19, 1997
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the applicant's pad or possibly down to the top of the fence. She didn't feel the tree
would have to be topped too much.
Project Coordinator Ursu responded that it would have to be topped quite a bit, possibly
half of the tree, thereby removing all of the foliage.
Commissioner A. Green mentioned that besides the Acacia tree there was also on the
right hand side of the property two thirty foot trees, one Eucalyptus and one Acacia, that
block the view. He felt that if those trees were brought down to the ridgeline there
would be a little foliage left.
Commissioner Boudreau felt the Liquid Amber tree should be brought down more than
the 18 inches recommended by staff and trimmed and laced. She further stated that all
of the trees on the left side (looking down on the property) needed to be cleaned up
and trimmed.
Vice Chair Sweetnam reviewed the recommendations of staff, beginning with the Purple
Leaf Acacia. He directed staff to change "Purple Leaf Acacia" to "Hop Seed". He
reminded the Commission that the foliage owner did not want to remove the Hop Seed,
so the recommendation should be to trim it to two feet above the applicant's pad.
Replacement vegetation, therefore, would not be an issue.
Commissioner Boudreau asked Project Coordinator Ursu how he came to the decision
to trim the Liquid Amber 18 inches.
Project Coordinator Ursu responded that he mainly considered the width of the tree.
Bringing the width of the tree in 18 inches off of each side would be adequate.
Commissioner Boudreau was more concerned with the height of the tree. Therefore,
she would recommend lowering the tree to restore the view.
Commissioner A. Green had the opinion that the Liquid Amber should not be topped at
all. He did not feel the crown should be dealt with much at all. It was not the height of
the tree that blocked the view. The height was blocking sky. He felt lacing would help.
After reviewing a picture of the area, Vice Chair Sweetnam asked staff to provide more
information on the growing patterns of Liquid Amber trees before they could make a
decision.
The Commissioners discussed the Eucalyptus and felt that the staff recommendation
was good, as Eucalyptus would bounce back after being trimmed or topped.
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Commissioner A. Green's comment was the wording of#3 of Exhibit A. He felt a slight
rewording was necessary.
Commissioner A. Green further felt it would be helpful if staff would give additional
information to the Commission regarding the Acacia (the one staff had no
recommendation on). He wanted to know what would be left of the tree if it were
topped to a level necessary for the view to be restored.
Commissioner Boudreau also requested staff to identify the type of Eucalyptus being
considered.
Vice Chair Sweetnam requested staff to produce more photographs that would help
clarify the situation at the site.
Commissioner A. Green moved to continue View Restoration Permit No. 38 to the
July 10, 1997 meeting, seconded by Commissioner Goern. There being no
objection, it was so ordered.
RECESS AND RECOVENCE
At 8:50 P.M. there was a brief recess until 9:05 P.M. when the meeting reconvened.
OTHER ITEMS
6. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 28 - RESOLUTION
Vice Chair Sweetnam began by stating he felt the question to be resolved was the
question of Rubber Trees #1, 2, and 3. He reminded the Commission that the
Resolution stated the trees were to be removed and the stumps ground up. He felt the
foliage owner had stated this evening that she didn't agree with that finding.
Project Coordinator Nelson responded that the foliage owner did not make any
statement about her rubber trees.
Commissioner Long read from the minutes of May 15, 1997 where the foliage owner
stated twice she would rather have the applicants remove the trees than try to maintain
the trees to the ridgeline. He therefore felt it was not pertinent if, at this time, the foliage
owner had changed her mind.
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
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Principal Planner Rojas reminded the Commission they could not open the public
hearing on this matter. They could only discuss the language of the Resolution and
make sure it was clear and represented the decision made by the Commission.
Vice Chair Sweetnam again asked Staff it the foliage owner, when she spoke earlier in
the meeting, had specifically said she did not want Rubber Trees 1, 2, and 3 removed.
Project Coordinator Nelson responded that Ms. Catrufo had not made any statements
that evening regarding her rubber trees. She had specifically spoken about her
Photocarpus, Hibiscus, and the unknown tree.
Principal Planner Rojas clarified that although the Commission could not reopen the
public hearing, it could ask the foliage owner or applicant questions for clarification.
Commissioner A. Green was still uncomfortable with the wording of the Resolution as it
did not give the option to the foliage owner to refuse to remove the trees. He felt past
Resolutions had given the option for topping or lacing if the foliage owner did not agree
to removal. He wondered if this was setting a precedent that if an owner decides during
a meeting that they will allow a tree to be removed, that they give up the right to rescind
the decision in the future.
Project Coordinator Nelson responded that this was the first case the Commission had
heard where the foliage owner had agreed to the removal of a tree during the public
hearing.
Commissioner Long summarized what the problem was by stating that he felt
Commissioner A. Green was saying he felt the Commission in the past had worded the
Resolutions to say, even though consent was given at a public hearing, the foliage
owner should have the right at any time, up to and including the time the tree was to be
cut, to withdraw consent. Mr. Long felt that the Ordinance did not require that type of
wording and felt the Commission should establish precedence that when either foliage
owners or applicants say something in a public hearing, granting consent, the
Commission should hold them to their word.
Commissioner Boudreau felt that if that were the case, the applicants and foliage
owners should be made aware of that.
Commissioner A. Green responded that if this were the course to follow, then extra care
would need to be taken to make sure that it was reflected in the minutes exactly what
the foliage owner said regarding the foliage, and the question "Are you sure that you
will allow this tree to be removed" must be asked, and that the foliage owner must
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understand that once they answer that question they lose the right to rescind.
The Commission then discussed how best to do that and it was decided that all
applicants and foliage owners would be given something in writing during the
application process.
Commissioner A. Green then asked if in this case the Commission should stick to the
old wording in this Resolution.
Commissioner Long felt that the Commission should include within the existing
Resolution findings that support and are consistent with the decision already made. A
finding should be included in this case that states that trimming, cutting, lacing, or
reducing of the foliage of the rubber trees would probably kill the trees and the owner
has consented to their removal.
Commissioner A. Green suggested a finding that states that since the foliage owner
finds it a great expense to maintain the tree if topped, and agrees to have the trees
removed, then the Commission so finds that the trees shall be removed.
Commissioner Long made a motion to adopt the Resolution with an amendment
to add Section 12 to specify that the trimming, cutting, lacing, or reduction of
Rubber Trees #1, 2, and 3 would not be economical because of the maintenance
cost and the owner of the rubber trees has consented to the removal of Rubber
Trees #1, 2, and 3, seconded by Commissioner Black. Approved, (7-0-1) with Vice
Chair Sweetnam abstaining.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Principal Planner Rojas informed the Commission that staff was working with the City
Attorney on the issue of the interpretation of the view documentation procedures for
Proposition M. The City Attorney is in the process of preparing a formal opinion to give
to the Commission for discussion and direction and then take it to the City Council.
This will be discussed on the next agenda.
Principal Planner Rojas also informed the Commission that the July 10, 1997 meeting
would include the item of continued business from tonight in addition to three new
cases, V.R.P. 31, 40 and 41.
Commissioner A. Green added that he would like to discuss at a future meeting some
type of process for providing information on procedures to applicants and foliage
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owners, perhaps some type of hand-out.
Commissioner Black agreed that some type of hand-out would be helpful and asked
that include simple terminology used during the view restoration process, such as
lacing, topping, ridgeline, etc.
Vice Chair Sweetnam added that something like that could be handed out with the view
restoration application.
Principal Planner Rojas agreed to place this item on a future agenda.
Principal Planner Rojas informed the Commission that the first appeal of a View
Restoration Commission decision was to be brought before City Council on July 1,
1997.
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Black moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded by Commissioner
Goern. The meeting was duly adjourned at 9:50 P.M. to July 10, 1997, 7:00 P.M.
and, there being no objection it was so ordered by Vice Chair Sweetnam, (8-0).
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