VRC MINS 19970807 • APPROVED
10/02/97
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 7, 1997
The meeting was called to order by Chair R. Green at 7:00 P.M. at Hesse Park
Community Building, 29310 Hawthorne Boulevard. The Pledge of Allegiance followed,
led by Commissioner Karmelich.
PRESENT: Commissioners Black, Boudreau, Goern, A. Green, Karmelich, Marshall,
Long, Vice Chair Sweetnam, Chair R. Green
ABSENT: None
Also present were Principal Planner Rojas, Project Coordinator Ursu, and Recording
Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Boudreau moved to approve the agenda as presented, seconded
by Commissioner Black. Approved, (9-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Principal Planner Rojas distributed a request for a continuance for View Restoration
Permit No. 45 from the foliage owner as well as a field inspection report from the City
Geologist for View Restoration Permit No. 45. Staff also informed the Commission of a
workshop scheduled with the City Council on Saturday, September 6, 1997 and that
packets for the August 21, 1997 View Restoration Commission meeting will be
distributed on Monday, August 11, 1997 because of a computer failure at City Hall.
A brief discussion followed among the Commissioners as to what type of format was
anticipated for the workshop and how it would be run.
Commissioner Long moved to agendize the discussion of the joint workshop with
City Council to the next View Restoration Commission meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Black. There being no objection, it was so ordered.
Vice Chair Sweetnam discussed letters to the editor that have been appearing in the
local newspapers that seem to be full of misstatements and misunderstandings. He felt
that the Commission should respond to these and offer an explanation of the
Commission's responsibilities and function.
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Principal Planner Rojas explained to the Commission that any one Commissioner could
respond in writing to a letter in a newspaper. However, writing a letter that states an
official position of the Commission would have to be considered by the entire
Commission as an agenda item and may have to be approved by the City Manager or
City Council.
Commissioner Long suggested that the editorial letters be included in the next packet of
information given to the Commission so they could be discussed at the next meeting.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. MINUTES OF JULY 10, 1997
Vice Chair Sweetnam pointed out an error in the vote on page 3 of the minutes and an
error in a name on page 14
Commissioner Black moved to adopt the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Boudreau. Approved, (9-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. PROCEDURES HANDOUT
Principal Planner Rojas suggested the Procedures Handout be discussed after the
Public Hearing item for the benefit of the applicants and foliage owners in the audience.
Chair R. Green agreed to continue the item to after the Public Hearing.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 42: Mr. and Mrs. Tom McFadden, 30731
Ganado Drive; Mr. and Mrs. Felix Krasovec, 3041 Ganado Drive; Mr. and Mrs. Kena
Hamilton, 30747 Ganado Drive (TN)
Principal Planner Rojas pointed out to the Commission that staff was recommending
the item be continued to the September 4, 1997 meeting.
Commissioner Black moved to continue the item to the September 4, 1997 View
Restoration Commission meeting, seconded by Commissioner Goern. Approved,
(9-0).
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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4. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 45: Dr. and Mrs. John Chou, 29500 Highpoint
Road (EU)
Before beginning, Chair R. Green discussed a request from the foliage owner
requesting a continuance of the item.
Commissioner Long felt that the basis of the request, which was possible changes to
Proposition M as a result of the upcoming workshop, was not a valid reason and the
Commission had a responsibility to hear the item tonight.
Commissioner Long made a motion to reject the request for continuance,
seconded by Commissioner Black. Approved, (9-0).
Chair R. Green opened the public hearing.
The Commission was polled as to who had visited the site. All Commissioners had
visited the site, therefore the two alternates, Commissioners Long and Karmelich, would
not participate in the discussion.
Project Coordinator Ursu then presented the staff report, explaining the request was to
restore the view of the Pacific Ocean, San Pedro, Vincent Thomas Bridge, and the
harbor which was being impaired by 5 pine trees and 1 other type of tree. Mr. Ursu
explained that in Staffs opinion the Pepper Tree on the foliage owners property was not
significantly impairing a view and no action was recommended on that tree. Staff was
recommending that 2 pine trees be removed and the other 3 be heavily laced. If
removal was not acceptable with the foliage owner, staff recommended topping.
Further, the City Geologist visited the site and recommended that if any pine trees were
removed from the slope that the slope be planted with a plant that had a woody root
system to help maintain the stability of the slope. The city geologist also noted a drain
pipe inlet at the top of the slope was clogged and should be opened to help prevent
slope failure. Finally, he suggested the top of the slope should be bermed with a soil
berm to prevent spillage over the top of the slope.
Dr. John Chou (applicant) 29500 Highpoint Road stated that the reason he bought his
house was for the view, and his purpose for this application was not to cut down trees,
but to restore a view. He felt that views were a great asset to the peninsula and
needed to be restored and preserved. Finally, Dr. Chou explained that the staff
recommendation would not restore his view. The view could not be restored unless all
of the trees in the application were removed.
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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Mr. Bremsner (foliage owner) 3070 Crownview Drive, began by stating there was a
privacy issue involved, and they wanted to protect as much of their privacy as possible.
Further, he did not want to be under the command of his neighbor who could dictate to
them what needed to be done in order to satisfy their need for an unobstructed view.
He pointed out that the applicant was fully aware of the trees when he purchased the
property. Mr. Bremsner also stated that he topped the trees by approximately 15 feet.
Finally, Mr. Bremsner stated that the applicant bought his property at a lower price
because of the partially obstructed view. Therefore, if the trees were removed the
applicant stood to gain an increase in the value of his property at Mr. Bremsner's
expense. The value of his property would be greatly diminished. He felt that, if a
compromise had to be reached, then the staff recommendation was not too far off the
mark, but he wanted to make sure that the trimming was done by a licensed arborist
and in accordance with the laws of the state of California.
Roy Rawlings 29624 Grandpoint Lane explained he was a neighbor of Dr. Chou and his
view was also directly impaired by the trees. He explained that when he first purchased
his property the trees did not exist and he had a beautiful view. As the trees grew, the
past owners would always keep them trimmed and laced so that no views would be
blocked.
Linda Rawlings 29624 Grandpoint Lane reminded the Commission that the way
Miraleste Hills was laid out it was virtually impossible not to see the house below you,
therefore she did not feel privacy should be an issue. She did not feel the trees should
be topped, as that would encourage vigorous regrowth. She also did not agree with
staffs recommendation to remove only 2 trees. She felt all 5 should be removed.
Dr. Chou agreed that privacy should not be an issue in this application. He felt that the
foliage owner's attitude was to give as little as possible and he felt that was not the spirit
of the peninsula. He felt that the spirit should be to restore and protect the beautiful
views available from the peninsula.
Commissioner Marshall asked staff if, as a matter of policy, the Commission should
consider in it's recommendations any adjacent property owners, other than the
applicant and foliage owner listed on the application.
Principal Planner Rojas responded that unless a property owner is a formal applicant,
views from neighboring properties should not be considered when making a
recommendation.
Commissioner Marshall then asked staff what the space would be between the trees
once the two pines were removed, and what affect would the lacing have on the view.
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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Project Coordinator Ursu answered that currently the pines are spaced approximately
10 feet apart. If the third and fifth pines were removed, then between the 2nd and 4th
tree there would be approximately 20 feet of clear space, and between the 4th and 6th
tree there would be approximately 20 feet of clear space. In Staffs opinion, simply
lacing the third and fifth pines would not restore the applicant's view.
Chair R. Green asked Mr. Ursu what his recommendation would be if the foliage owner
did not give his consent for the removal of pines 3 and 5.
Project Coordinator Ursu answered that the trees would be topped and the other trees
would still be laced.
Chair R. Green asked staff if there was any recommendation as far as replacement
foliage if the trees were removed.
Project Coordinator Ursu responded that replacement foliage was being recommended
since the trees were planted on a slope. Staff has a list of approved foliage available
for the foliage owner to choose from to help maintain the slope.
Commissioner Marshall asked Mr. Bremsner if he was able or planned to take any
action regarding his blocked drain pipe or the suggested berm on his hillside.
Mr. Bremsner answered that he did not fully understand what the city geologist was
asking him to do and would have to consult with him. He was not aware of the
problems and would attend to them.
Vice Chair Sweetnam asked Mr. Bremsner if the Commission were to call for the
topping of the pine trees, would he prefer to have the trees topped or would he like
them removed and replaced with something else.
Mr. Bremsner answered that it was a difficult question to answer and at this point they
did not want the trees to be removed. Since staff was saying the tree may die if they
are topped it made the question even more difficult to answer. He replied that they
would have to think about the answer.
Chair R. Green wondered, since the pines have most of their foliage near the top, if Mr.
Bremsner might not be satisfied if the trees were replaced with trees that had foliage
growing lower. This may also help provide more privacy to the residence.
Mr. Bremsner responded that he was not sure at this point.
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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Commissioner Black reconfirmed that Mr. Bremsner did not want his trees removed at
this time.
Mr. Bremsner agreed.
Commissioner Boudreau commented that the way the trees were presently growing
they were too close together, with most of the foliage at the top. This was providing
little privacy to the foliage owners and not allowing the trees to get adequate sun. The
trees need to be thinned out for them to be healthy.
Vice Chair Sweetnam moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Goern. There being no objection, the public hearing was closed.
Vice Chair Sweetnam began the discussion by stating his first recommendation would
be that the pine trees be removed and replaced with something else.
Chair R. Green felt the language for removal should be left in the Resolution giving the
foliage owner an option, with language included that stated the replacement foliage
should have a woody root system.
Vice Chair Sweetnam continued by stating that since the foliage owner did not seem
willing to have the pines removed, the next step would be to have all six trees topped to
a height not to exceed 50 feet above the foliage owner's building pad elevation.
Commissioner Boudreau was not satisfied that, should the foliage owner consent to
removal, removing trees 3 and 5 and lacing the rest would restore the view. She felt
the remaining trees should be topped.
Commissioner Goern agreed, stating that if there were heavy lacing there would be
heavy growth. She would prefer to see topping.
Chair R. Green thought it might be better to top trees 3 and 5 and lace the others,
rather than top all six.
Commissioner A. Green thought the question came down to, should there be laced pine
trees in this particular viewing area. Were these trees serving a purpose being located
where they were.
Chair R. Green felt that lacing was a means available to the Commission and it would
be appropriate to look at that issue, and if the conclusion is that lacing is not
appropriate to restore the view in this situation then, and only then, should the
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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Commission consider topping trees.
Vice Chair Sweetnam added that lacing one single pine tree in a viewing area could
normally be an acceptable solution. However in this situation, there are six trees in a
row and he did not feel that lacing six trees would solve the problem.
Chair R. Green acknowledged this but asked what would happen if two trees were
removed and the four remaining laced.
Vice Chair Sweetnam answered that even in that situation there were too many trees
involved and lacing would not restore the view.
Commissioner Black added that she could see leaving trees one and six laced, but not
trees two, three, four and five.
Vice Chair Sweetnam did not feel these trees were the type of trees that were shaped
nicely and a laced version of it would not look very good. The trees are too bushy and
would grow back as a bush if laced.
Commissioner Goern added that she felt there were too many trees in question to
adequately lace.
After reviewing photographs of the area, Commissioner A. Green noted a 60 to 70
percent view blockage by this particular barrier of trees. He felt that by taking out
pieces of the blockage, there would still be a large percentage of blockage. He felt the
Commission should offer the foliage owner the opportunity of having all of the trees
removed and have adequate replacement foliage. If this was not satisfactory, then all
trees should be topped.
Chair R. Green asked the Commission what would be an appropriate number of
replacement trees/foliage to offer the foliage owner.
Project Coordinator Ursu stated that the city geologist had suggested replanting 5 one
gallon shrubs, spaced equally so that there would be a new shrub next to the stump of
each removed tree. He added there was a list of suitable trees and shrubs that have a
woody root system that the city geologist felt would help maintain the slope. The
foliage owner would be able to choose from the list what type of replacement tree he
would prefer.
Chair R. Green summarized the findings by stating the six pine trees located on the
slope were to be removed, with the owner's consent. Removal would constitute cutting
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION MINUTES
AUGUST 7, 1997
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the trees flush with the ground and leaving the roots in the ground. Replacement
foliage would consist of foliage with woody root systems with a sufficient number
provided to cover the area. If the foliage owner does not grant authority to remove the
pine trees, then all pine trees shall be topped to a height not to exceed 50 feet above
the foliage owners building pad elevation.
Vice Chair Sweetnam moved to adopt the Resolution as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Goern. Adopted (7-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:35 there was a short recess until 8:45 at which time the meeting was reconvened.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
5. PROCEDURES HANDOUT
Principal Planner Rojas began the discussion by stating that the Commission had
requested there be some type of handout given to applicants and foliage owners that
briefly summarized and explained the different points and issues encountered in the
process and helped prepare them for the process, hearing, and what is to occur after
the decisions are made. Based on that direction, he put a very brief outline together of
the topics that would be covered in putting together such a handout. He was asking the
Commission to review these topics and add any additional items they felt were
necessary.
Commissioner Long felt there should be a point added near paragraph 4a that states
the Commission is not authorized to address legal and constitutional issues and that
speakers shouldn't waste their allotted time before the Commission raising issues
regarding interpretation, validity, and constitutionality of the Ordinance which the
Commission is not empowered to address.
Commissioner Black felt it was very important to have at the end of the handout some
type of addendum which just covered the definition of terms commonly used throughout
the process.
Commissioner Long added that it would be helpful to add something that explained that
the applicant and foliage owner may want to submit in writing something to the
Commission that comments specifically on the recommendations of the staff report.
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AUGUST 7, 1997
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Principal Planner Rojas added that, as with City Council appeal hearings on View
Restoration Permit discussions, he would like to request that if applicants or foliage
owners wished to submit something in writing to the View Restoration Commission,
they do so at least seven days prior to the hearing. This will ensure that the information
will be included in the Commissioner's agenda packets.
Commissioner Long suggested that any correspondence asked to be forwarded to the
Commission regarding anything other than specific comments on staff
recommendations be filed seven days before the meeting. Only specific comments on
staff recommendations can be brought to the hearing, and provided they are limited to
two pages.
Commissioner A. Green suggested a form be attached to the staff reports for the
foliage owners and applicants to fill out where they can specifically state their
agreements or disagreements on the recommendations made in the staff report.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Commissioner A. Green requested staff provide the Commission with photos of past
view restoration cases that are complete. He would like to see the before and after
photos of as many cases as possible to see how the sites turned out.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
Ken Dyda 5715 Capeswood Drive, suggested the City prepare a form for real estate
agents that explained Proposition M and require the agents to give this form to anyone
purchasing a home in Rancho Palos Verdes. He also discussed the issue of
replacement foliage and how he did not feel five gallon replacement trees were fair or
reasonable for a foliage owner who was possibly losing a large, mature tree.
James Quong 26144 Barkstone Drive, explained that he was a foliage owner from a
case several years ago. He pointed out a clerical error made in his approved
Resolution and asked the Commission and city staff to please do something to correct
the error.
Principal Planner Rojas stated he would check the records, check with the City
Attorney, and contact Mr. Quong.
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AUGUST 7, 1997
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Maureen Ford 30659 Ganado Drive, began by telling the Commission she really wanted
to see this Commission succeed in it's purposes. She cautioned the Commissioners
that they needed to be sensitive and understanding to the speakers when they were
speaking before the Commission.
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner A. Green moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Black. There being no objection, the meeting was duly adjourned
at 9:42 P.M. to Thursday, August 21, 1997 at 7:00 P.M.
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