VRC MINS 19950420 APPROVED , '
ill/ 110 5/4/95
MINUTES
VIEW RESTORATION COMMISSION
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
• April 20, 1995
CALL TO ORDER:
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Cartwright at 7: 03 p.m.
at Hesse Community Park, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho Palos
Verdes.
FLAG SALUTE:
Commissioner Clark led the flag salute.
ROLL CALL:
Present: Commissioners Black, Boudreau, Clark, Goern, R. Green,
Weisz, Vice Chairman Sweetnam and Chairman Cartwright.
Absent: Commissioners Eastwood and A. Green.
Also present were Carolynn Petru, Planning Administrator, Joel
Rojas, Senior Planner and Helena Eudave' , Recording Secretary.
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA:
Chairman Cartwright asked for Approval of Agenda. Commissioner
Black made a motion to Approve the Agenda, seconded by Commissioner
Boudreau, and passed unanimously.
CONTINUED BUSINESS:
Chairman Cartwright opened the meeting by reiterating the remarks
he made at the last meeting, thanking Commissioner Clark, on behalf
of the entire Commission, for his efforts and leadership during the
past year. Mr. Cartwright went on to say that he hoped the
Commission would continue working in the same spirit throughout the
next year and continue to make progress towards the Commission's
goals.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
Chairman Cartwright asked for any comments regarding the Minutes of
April 6, 1995. Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked to eliminate the word
"for" on the 6th line of Page 3 . Staff concurred with the change.
Commissioner Boudreau made a motion to adopt the Minutes of April
6, 1995, as amended, seconded by Commissioner Weisz, and passed
unanimously.
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April 20, 1995
CONTINUED BUSINESS
Adoption of V.R.C. Resolution No. 95-; Recommending to the City
Council Approval of the Revisions to Section 17.02 . 040 in the
Municipal Code.
Chairman Cartwright asked Staff for any comments before the
Commission began reviewing the draft Resolution.
Planning Administrator Petru offered to go through the Exhibit "A"
and point out the major changes to Section 17. 02 . 040 that were made
by Staff and the City Attorney. Ms. Petru noted that the last time
the Commission had reviewed the draft Development Code Revision
language was on December 1, 1994 . At that time, Staff informed the
Commission that the Municipal Code only allowed the Commission to
make recommended Code Amendments on one particular section of
Proposition M. Since that time, the City Council amended the
Municipal Code to allow the Commission to make formal
recommendations on any portion of the Development Code relating the
preservation or restoration of views where foliage is a factor. In
addition, since that Joint Meeting with the City Council on January
21, 1995, Staff had been working with the City Attorney in
reviewing the proposed Development Code Revisions. As a result of
the City Attorney's input, the following changes had been made to
Proposition M for the Commission's review:
1. Previously, the definition of terms that were included in
Proposition M had been moved to a separate Definitions
Section. However, since the Ordinance was created by voter
referendum, the City Attorney felt that the definition of
terms should not be separated from the Ordinance. Therefore,
these definitions were moved back, but some of them were
modified slightly to be consistent with duplicate definitions
contained in the separate Definitions Sections.
2 The definition of "View" was re-formatted to match the
original Proposition M language. However, Staff had added a
list as to what constituted "distant mountains" and "off-shore
islands. " In addition, the process for "determination of
view" was created in a separate portion of the Ordinance to be
consistent with the "determination of viewing area. "
3 . The definition of "Viewing Area" was modified based on Staff's
understanding of the Council's direction on this item from the
January 1995 Joint Meeting. In addition, the process for
"determination of viewing area" was moved into a separate
section of the Ordinance for clarity.
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At this point, Chairman Cartwright asked if the Commission members
had any comments on the first four pages of Exhibit "A. "
On Page 4, Commissioner Clark asked if there were any changes to
the wording of the definitions since the Commission had last
discussed them in December 1994.
Senior Planner Rojas indicated that there had been some minor
changes to definitions, such as Lot Coverage, which had been
modified to be more consistent with the definitions that pre-dated
Proposition "M. " In addition, Proposition M originally had a
definition of "intent and purpose, " which the City Attorney agreed
could be deleted, since the language was proposed to be re-stated
in the opening section of the Ordinance.
Chairman Cartwright referred to the definition of "Planning
Commission" and asked this definition also included the View
Restoration Commission, for •the purpose of considering Code
Amendments.
Planning Administrator Petru replied that there was a separate
definition for "View Restoration Commission" that included the
responsibility for reviewing Code Amendments relating to view
issues involving foliage.
On Page 5, Senior Planner Rojas mentioned that the definition of
"Structure" had been modified, with the City Attorney's review and
approval, to match the existing definition in the Development Code.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked Planning Administrator Petru about the
list of mountains identified in the definition of "View, " in that
he did not remember if a list had been part of the previous
definition.
Ms. Petru indicated that the list had been added since December
1994 .
Vice Chairman Sweetnam questioned whether the San Jacinto Mountains
should be included in the list, since they are only visible on very
clear days.
Ms. Petru indicated that the Commission could alter the list, as it
deemed appropriate, and noted that the fewer mountains included on
the list, the easier it would be for Staff to conduct a view
analysis.
After much discussion, the consensus among the Commissioners was to
leave the wording of this definition as presented.
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April 20, 1995
On Page 6, Commissioner Boudreau wished to discuss the definition
of "Viewing Area. "
Commissioner Clark concurred that the wording of this definition
needed further discussion.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam felt that Staff's modifications to this
definition had not been agreed upon by the Council during the
discussion at the January 1994 Joint Meeting. He went on to say
that he still felt that a viewing area could be taken from several
locations within a structure. He felt that the revised definition
took away what had previously been allowed in the adopted View
Restoration Permit Guidelines.
Planning Administrator Petru confirmed that the revised definition,
as drafted by Staff, would eliminate the possibility of protecting
different views from multiple locations within the residence.
Commissioner Weisz asked if the Commission had previously decided
to protect views from bathrooms.
Planning Administrator Petru explained that there had been a
meeting between a sub-committee of the View Restoration Commission
and the Planning Commission and the joint subcommittee had
recommended that bathrooms be included as protected viewing areas.
However, based on the discussions at the January 1994 Joint
Meeting, Staff felt that the Council was not in favor of including
bathrooms as protected viewing areas. Ms. Petru went on to say
that, while Staff understood the Commission's position on these
issues, the Staff was trying to embody in the draft language
Staff's understanding of the direction that was provided by the
City Council at the January 1994 Joint Meeting.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam felt that bathrooms should not be excluded
from protected viewing areas and felt that this was also the desire
of the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Clark felt that there had not been a fair exchange
with the Council on this point. He went on to say that the View
Restoration Commission should recommend what it felt was best for
the City and then allow the Council to make the ultimate
determination as to whether or not bathrooms should be protected
viewing areas.
Commissioner Goern asked if the Commission was talking about
"luxury" bathrooms or "ordinary" bathrooms, and whether the Code
should differentiate between the two?
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Planning Administrator Petru indicated that it would be difficult
to write a definition that would differentiate between two types of
bathrooms, since what constitutes a "luxury" bathroom and an
"ordinary" bathroom could be extremely subjective.
Commissioner Weisz suggested that the language with regards to
bathrooms be left as stated.
Planning Administrator Petru indicated that Staff would prefer the
Code language to be as specific as possible, since the Staff must
use the final language to advise landowners and conduct view
analyses.
The Commission also discussed the viability of establishing
hallways, garages or closets as protected viewing areas. After
considerable discussion, the Commission rejected the idea of
protecting hallways, garages and closets as protected viewing
areas, but tabled the discussion on whether to include or exclude
bathrooms for later discussion.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked for the rational in adding the word
"vacant" in front of the word "lot" in the first sentence.
Ms. Petru responded that Staff was differentiating between how a
viewing area was established on undeveloped lot versus a developed
lot. She also noted that this language is consistent with the
criteria contained in the adopted Height Variation Guidelines.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam felt that the two Commissions differed on
this point, since the View Restoration Commission thought in terms
of protecting multiple viewing areas on any given property, while
the Planning Commission was interested in protecting the view only
from a particular point inside the residence. He went on to
explain that on a vacant lot the landowner can often see different
views in many directions. However, it did not seem fair that once
a structure was built on the lot, that the landowner was then
limited to protecting only one view from one particular room in the
house.
Ms. Petru clarified that Staff and the City Attorney felt that the
current language of the Code only protected the "best and most
important view" from one viewing areas on the property. However,
the revised definition would expand the viewing area to include
multiple adjacent rooms, as long as they took the same view. Ms.
Petru reiterated that Staff was not trying undermine the View
Restoration Commission on these issues. Staff was only trying to
embody what they understood the direction to be from City Council.
The View Restoration Commission was free to make any
recommendations it felt were appropriate to the City Council.
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Vice Chairman Sweetnam felt that the revised definition of "Viewing
Area" contradicted the definition of "View, " in that the Code
language allowed a view to be broken into segments, i.e. viewed
from different rooms.
Planning Administrator Petru explained that Staff felt that there
was no conflict, since the definition related to the view itself,
which is physically separate and external from the lot where the
view is taken. For example, if only parts of the view are visible
because of the presence of structures or foliage on other
properties located between the subject lot and the view, it is
still considered to be one continuous view.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam did not feel that this concept was
adequately presented and discussed at the Joint Workshop.
Commissioner Weisz stated his opinion that, as an applicant reading
the definition of "Viewing Area, " he would not know how to
interpret the meaning of that paragraph.
Commissioner Black asked to see the December 1994 version of this
definition.
The Commission took a short break while Senior Planner Rojas copied
the pertinent pages from draft V.R.C. Resolution of December 1,
1994, which were then handed out to each of the Commissioners.
After reviewing the distributed pages, Commissioner Weisz proposed
to modify the current language to embody the concepts included in
the previous draft language.
•
After a lengthy discussion between the Commission and Staff, the
definition was modified as follows:
"Viewing area" means that habitable area of a structure or a
lot (excluding setbacks) where the owner and city determine
that the best and most important views exist. For lots with
structures, viewing area may include more than one room within
the structure and adjacent outdoor locations.
Commissioner Clark noted that when the Planning Commission comes
forth with its recommended changes of the Code, it will have a
different definition of "Viewing Area" than the View Restoration
Commission.
Commissioner Boudreau agreed with Mr. Clark's statement.
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Commissioner Clark made the motion to adopt the revised definition
of "Viewing Area," which was seconded by Commissioner Black and
approved unanimously.
Commissioner Clark then asked Staff if the Commission should adopt
the V.R.C. Resolution that evening.
Staff responded by saying that, due to the amount of language
changes requested by the Commission, Staff would prefer to make the
proposed changes and bring back the revised V.R.C. Resolution for
adoption by the Commission at the next regular meeting.
Commissioner Clark then asked about the timing and scheduling of
the Development Code Revision process.
Senior Planner Rojas responded that Staff was still working with
the City Attorney on the review of Title 17. Therefore, Staff was
planning to present the final version of the Development Code
Revisions to the Planning Commission by the end of May 1995. Once
the Planning Commission has completed its review, the Development
Code Revisions would probably be forwarded to the City Council by
the end of June 1995 or the beginning of July 1995.
Moving on through Exhibit "A, " Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked if
Section 5, concerning the establishment of protected views and
viewing areas, was an entirely new section.
Senior Planner Rojas explained that sub-section "b" had been moved
from the definition of "Viewing Area" to this new section, and that
sub-section "a" had been basically copied from "b" and modified to
address how a "View" is established.
Commissioner Boudreau requested that on the second line of sub-
section "b" the word "view" should be plural, i.e. "views. "
With the Commissions concurrence, Mr. Rojas indicated that the word
"view" would be pluralized throughout the Ordinance, for
consistency.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam noted that paragraph 5 (a) stated "The
determination of a view shall be made by the city, . . . " and felt
that this should be changed to " . . .by the city and the owner. . , " in
order to be consistent with how a viewing area was established.
The Commission unanimously agreed with this proposed change.
On Page 9, Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked that in Section C(iv) where
it stated, " . . . impairing the view, " should be changed to "a view. "
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The Commission unanimously agreed with this proposed change.
On Page 10, Section C(g) , Commissioner Clark addressed the issue of
an "endless loop" developing between the City Council and the View
Restoration Commission, where the same project is repeatedly
appealed and remanded back between the two bodies, which was
possible based on the current Ordinance language regarding appeals
to the City Council.
Planning Administrator Petru recalled that the issue was brought up
before, and that she had discussed the matter with the City
Attorney.
Senior Planner Rojas, referring to the Minutes of November 17,
1994, noted that the City Attorney had suggested two alternatives:
1) set a limit on the number of appeals that could be filed on a
single application; or, 2) include a provision in the Code which
would allow the Council to rule on a particular aspect of the
appeal that they felt the Commission was not interpreting
correctly.
Ms. Petru noted that Staff had been directed on November 17, 1994
to summarize the "endless loop" issue as part of the Staff Report
presented to the City Council regarding the Development Code
Revisions.
Commissioner Clark recalled that the Commission had agreed to
highlight this issue to the Council, thereby allowing the Council
to amend the Ordinance, as it deemed appropriate.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam was concerned that the Commission would have
to use the Council's interpretations of the Ordinance in its
rulings.
Commissioner Clark replied that the Commission would still have the
ability to exercise its judgment on a case by case basis.
The Commission then discussed the merits of: 1) suggesting language
modifications to the appeals portion of the Ordinance; 2) simply
highlighting the issue for the Council; or, 3) not addressing the
issue at this time and waiting for an actual case to be appealed to
the Council.
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In order to clarify the Commission's direction on this issue,
Planning Administrator Petru reminded the Commission members that
Staff had previously been directed at the November 17, 1994 meeting
to only highlight the issues to the Council and suggest possible
alternatives. She asked if this was still the Commission's
direction to Staff or if the members now wished to take a different
approach.
Commissioner Clark felt that Staff should highlight the issue so
that the City Council would be made aware of it and could take
whatever action the Council deemed appropriate.
Chairman Cartwright said that he could see no harm in this approach
and felt that the Council should be aware of the Commission's
discussions on the matter.
Commissioner Clark went on to note that the Commission will have
spent many hours reviewing the issues and draft language of the
Ordinance, while the Council will not be able to spend nearly that
amount of time on it. Therefore, the Council should have the
benefit of the Commission's in depth discussion of the issues.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam made a motion to not recommend any language
changes to the Appeal section of the Ordinance. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Weisz. Before the vote was taken, Ms.
Petru clarified that the motion included presenting the Code
language, as written, with no highlighting of the issues. The
maker and seconder of the motion concurred. The motion passed by
the following role call vote:
Yes: Commissioners Black, Boudreau, Goern, R. Green, Weisz and
Vice Chairman Sweetnam
No: Commissioner Clark and Chairman Cartwright
Chairman Cartwright asked if there were any other comments on the
draft V.R.C. Resolution or Exhibit "A. " There were none.
In responding to a question from Commissioner Weisz, Planning
Administrator Petru indicated that Staff would revise the V.R.C.
Resolution and bring it back at the next regular meeting.
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NEW BUSINESS:
3 . Covenants to Protect Views in Conjunction with View
Restoration Permits.
Planning Administrator Petru indicated that at the last meeting on
May 4, 1995, the Commission had requested that this item be placed
on this agenda.
Chairman Cartwright stated that this item was placed on the Agenda
because the Commission felt that it was an important issue and
wanted to communicate its reasons to the City Council for opposing
Covenants to Protect Views.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam asked if any of the Commission members had
watched the March 21, 1995 City Council meeting on television when
Covenants to Protect Views were discussed. Several members of the
Commission indicated that they had watched the meeting. Mr.
Sweetnam went on to say that Ms. Petru had brought the matter to
the attention of the City Council to get further input, but that
the Council tabled the issue. He felt that there were two
important points that needed to be communicated to the Council
regarding this issue:
1) Since the landowner seeking a View Restoration Permit must
record a Covenant to Protect Views on their property, they are
in effect giving up their future right to have a public
hearing before the View Restoration Commission if they become
the subject of a View Restoration Permit application (i.e. the
foliage owner) .
2) The landowner seeking a View Restoration Permit must pay all
the costs associated with the permit (including substantial
permit fees and the cost of removing the foliage that was
blocking the view) , and then, because of the Covenant, would
be required to pay for the removal of any foliage on their own
property that was blocking a view if the City receives a Code
Enforcement complaint in the future.
Vice Chairman Sweetnam felt that the Covenant requirement weakened
the View Preservation and Restoration Ordinance because it
established a parallel requirement and duplicated what the
Ordinance already accomplished.
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April 20, 1995
Commissioner R. Green felt that, by having to sign a Covenant, the
landowner would loose their right to due process that is currently
available under the Ordinance.
Commissioner Weisz felt that the Commission's analysis of this
issue should be documented for the City Council's information.
Commissioner Clark moved that a sub-committee be appointed to draft
a letter to the City Council articulating the Commission's position
on Covenants to Protect Views and that this requirement should be
eliminated from the Ordinance. Included in Mr. Clark's motion was
the suggestion that Vice Chairman Sweetnam and Commissioner R.
Green be appointed to the sub-committee. Commissioner Weisz
seconded the motion. The motion carried unanimously.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS:
There were not items identified to be placed on a future agenda.
QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE
There were no people in the audience, therefore there were no
requests to address the Commission.
ADJOURNMENT:
Chairman Cartwright called for a motion of Adjournment.
Commissioner Weisz made a motion to adjourn the meeting, which was
seconded by Commissioner Boudreau. The motion was passed
unanimously and the meeting was duly adjourned at 9: 30 p.m.
The next regular meeting is scheduled for Thursday, May 4, 1995 at
7: 00 PM at Hesse Park.
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