VRC MINS 19910221 411
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MINUTES
VIEW RESTORATION COMMITTEE
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
FEBRUARY 21, 1991
The meeting was called to order at 7: 10 p.m. by Chairman Clark at
Hesse Community Park, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT Committee Members Boudreau, Burrage, Lorenzen, Murphy,
Quatrochi, Sweetnam, Weisz, Chairman Clark
ABSENT Committeemembers Cartwright, Eastwood
Also present were Senior Planner Carolynn Petru, Associate
Planner Mike Patterson, Associate Planner Joel Rojas, Assistant
City Attorney Deborah Hakman and Recording Secretary Lucile
Rogers.
COMMUNICATIONS
Chairman Clark introduced Chief Paul Rippens of the Los Angeles
County Fire Department, Forestry Division, who described the Fire
Department's program of providing seedling pine trees free to
residents of Los Angeles County. The program, in effect since
1913, is primarily for use in erosion control and to provide wind
breaks. Chief Rippens stated that the Department is willing to
work with the View Restoration Committee regarding the type of
trees they provide on the Peninsula. They are in the process of
changing from conifer type seedlings to native oaks and other
native vegetation which are more acceptable in the way of drought
resistance.
Committee Members indicated interest in trees which would not
grow higher than 16 feet, and Chief Rippens explained that the
trees they provide are for erosion control as opposed to
landscaping, and most of them are quite tall. He said the fire
stations on the Peninsula could, when they provide the seedlings,
hand out material indicating how high the trees are likely to
grow and stating the requirements of the View Restoration and
Preservation ordinance. Staff was requested to work on
developing such a handout.
In response to inquiries about the Fire Department providing
lower growth foliage, Chief Rippens advised that although the
County charter mandates the provision of the free seedling
service to the public, the Fire Department is not allowed to
compete with the nursery industry. He agreed to meet with the
City Arborist and staff to discuss low water usage vegetation
which is also fire resistant. Senior Planner Petru was asked to
set up the meeting.
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VIEW RESTORATION OMMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
Chairman Clark then announced with regret that due to health
reasons, Committee Member Quatrochi is resigning from the View
Restoration Committee. Stating that Member Quatrochi was
involved in the committee which drafted Proposition M and has
been incredibly valuable to the VRC, Chairman Clark thanked him
for his service on behalf of all the Members. Mr. Quatrochi in
turn thanked the Committee and staff, and departed from the
meeting at 7:35 p.m.
Senior Planner Petru indicated no other communications had been
received. Mr. John Sharkey protested that he had delivered two
letters to the City intended for discussion at this meeting, and
also indicated that evidence had been removed from his file.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Mr. James Quong requested that the Minutes of January 17, 1991
and VRC Resolution No. 91- , approving View Restoration Permit
No. 9, be removed from the Consent Calendar since he wished to
object to portions of both. Committee Member Weisz questioned
the standing of a member of the public to revise the minutes or a
Resolution concerning a public hearing which has been closed.
Assistant City Attorney Hakman advised that the public hearing
could not be reopened and there could be no discussion as to the
merits of a case, but if there are technical deficiencies they
could be discussed.
Committee Member Sweetnam moved that items A and B of the Consent
Calendar be removed for discussion after the public hearing.
Member Murphy seconded and the motion passed without exception.
Member Sweetnam moved adoption of Item C of the Consent Calendar.
Member Lorenzen seconded and the motion passed without exception.
PUBLIC HEARING
VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 20: Soterios Menzelos, 5113 Oconto
Avenue; John P. Watters, 5117
Oconto Avenue.
Committee Members Boudreau, Lorenzen, Murphy, Sweetnam, Weisz and
Clark were eligible to vote on this application.
Associate Planner Patterson presented the staff report. Replying
to a query as to the rationale for removing rather than trimming
some of the trees, Mr. Patterson said it was felt that too great
a portion of those trees would need removal to restore the view.
Committee Member Weisz moved to open the public hearing. The
motion was seconded by Member Sweetnam and passed without
objection.
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VIEW RESTORATION MMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
Applicant Mr. Soterios Menzelos stated that when they purchased
their house in 1966 they paid extra for the view which is now
obstructed. He said they have attempted over the years to talk
to their immediate neighbors and were willing to work with them
if the neighbors would meet them half way. Mr. Menzelos stated
they are not against trees or growth, but are for cooperation,
and he appealed to the Committee for a fair and just solution.
Upon questioning, Mr. Menzelos stated he is in agreement with the
staff recommendations.
Applicant Mr. John Watters agreed with Mr. Menzelos and said he
is in agreement with the majority of the staff recommendations
but would like to make the following changes:
5074 Silver Arrow
a) Thinning of the two shorter, bushier pine trees (C &
D) .
b) Removal of the two taller pine trees (A & 13) .
Mr. Watters explained that he had met with foliage owner Mr.
Ronald Ross and they had agreed on the changes. He also
suggested that the palm tree designated as (E) at 5071 Silver
Arrow be removed. He stated that he also preferred trimming
trees rather than removing them as long as the trees are trimmed
down to a level that restores his view.
Associate Planner Patterson indicated that if the applicant and
foliage owner agreed on the above revised recommendations, staff
would have no objection.
Mr. Ronald Ross, the foliage owner at 5074 Silver Arrow,
commended the Committee for their dedicated public service to the
City. He pointed out, however, that they also have a duty to the
Constitution of the United States and the State of California.
As an attorney, he stated that the ordinance is not an ex post
facto law and does not create a right or impose a duty where none
existed in the past. He interprets the law to mean that if your
view was already blocked in November of 1989 the ordinance does
not apply, and only after that date is foliage required not to
exceed the set limits. He asserted that the procedural
requirements have not been met with regard to resolving
conflicts, since Mr. Menzelos has not spoken to him other than
one contact last year. Mr. Ross said he did visit Mr. Watters'
home and mention was made of removing the two pine trees, but no
agreement was arrived at with regard to removal or replacement of
the trees. He stated that when he moved into his home in 1975
the trees were tall and mature, and no proof has been presented
that they did not exist prior to development of the lot. He said
he has trimmed his trees regularly, and pointed out that the
applicants live two blocks away, possibly exceeding the maximum
1000 foot separation. He contended that if the removal of trees
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VIEW RESTORATION CITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
is ordered the City will be confiscating his property and there
must be just compensation. He assured the Committee that if they
order confiscation of his property he would file suit to stop the
action and for damages. He suggested the City Council hire an
independent attorney to investigate the City's liability, and/or
ask the Attorney General for an opinion.
When questioned whether he agreed with any of the staff
recommendations, Mr. Ross said no, that he objected to removal of
any of his foliage. He said the Aleppo pines had just been
trimmed and cannot be further trimmed without damage, and he has
been advised by Travers Tree Service that the two Monterey pines
will be killed if any foliage is removed.
In further discussion, Associate Planner Patterson verified that
the distance between the properties was measured at less than
1000 feet. He said that Mrs. Menzelos had provided photographs
indicating that the area was stripped before the development
proceeded, and the grading records in the City tract files had
not been investigated. Assistant City Attorney Hakman advised
that the burden of proof is on the applicant with respect to all
issues except the privacy issue.
Mr. Hal Kaufman, foliage owner at 5071 Silver Arrow, testified
that his property is the furthest away from the applicants'
homes. He was in agreement with the staff recommendations
pertaining to his property, but strongly objected to Mr. Watters'
suggestion that the palm tree (E) in his front yard be removed.
He felt that especially at a distance of two blocks, the tree
adds to Mr. Watters' view rather than detracting from it. He
said all the trees were in place when he moved into his home in
1969. He added that before agreeing to trimming of his foliage
he would like the assurance of a tree expert that such trimming
would not result in the death of the tree nor result in the tree
looking like a stump. He said he would be willing to keep the
dead branches cleaned up after the initial trimming.
Committee Member Sweetnam clarified that the applicant is
responsible for obtaining three bids from professional tree
trimmers. The foliage owner is then free to contract with anyone
he wants to do the work (including performing the work himself)
and the City will reimburse him the amount of the lowest bid.
There was general agreement that tree trimming companies cannot
guarantee that a tree will survive.
Mr. Sam Huang, foliage owner at 27317 Warrior Drive, stated that
he purchased his home in 1987 because of the landscaping, which
he has tended carefully over the years. He said that in August
1990 his neighbor trespassed on his property and cut his border
trees to 3' high without his permission; therefore, he refused to
sign the Acknowledgement of View Restoration Request. He
objected to the request due to his understanding that Monterey
pines are environmentally protected trees, that the recommended
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VIEW RESTORATION ItIMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
actions would cause environmental and financial damage, that his
privacy and his view must be protected, that the City Council has
forbidden the removal of trees until a tree replacement policy is
adopted, and because of the religious and spiritual value of
trees to Chinese-Americans. He stated that he did not agree with
the staff recommendations and did not want any changes to any of
his foliage.
It was clarified by Chairman Clark that the City Council has not
forbidden the removal of trees; they are currently considering an
amendment to the ordinance that would add express language
granting to the Committee the authority to order the removal of
trees. Member Weisz added that the Committee has not found any
evidence of the protected status of Monterey pines.
Mr. James Quong of 26144 Barkstone Drive spoke as an interested
third party, contending that no proof of cooperation to avoid
conflicts had been shown, especially in view of Mr. Huang's
assertion that his neighbor had trespassed into his yard.
In rebuttal testimony, Mr. Menzelos stated that he has submitted
photographs showing that the hill was completely barren when he
moved in. He admitted having his gardener trim the hedge between
Mr. Huang's home and his, but only the portion that protruded
into his yard. He said he has no interest in looking down into
his neighbor's yard; he only wants to look out and enjoy the
view.
Mr. Watters testified that he submitted proof of early neighbor
contact through receipts for correspondence sent to the foliage
owners as well as the signatures of Mr. Ross and Mr. Kaufman on
the acknowledgement form. He stated his willingness to consider
leaving Mr. Kaufman's palm tree (E) after its thinning and
scraping and the other staff recommended actions, if it does not
obstruct his view. He said when he spoke with Mr. Ross there was
no mention of any legal problems and his understanding was that
Mr. Ross agreed to the removal of the two taller pine trees if
Mr. Watters agreed to trimming of the two smaller, bushier pines,
if this appeared appropriate after the trimming of Mr. Huang's
trees. He said he was speaking for Mr. Menzelos also, as they
are co-applicants.
Mr. Ross denied any agreement with Mr. Watters and repeated that
Mr. Menzelos had not contacted him upon his return from vacation,
as he had promised. He questioned the public good of ordering
the destruction of trees for the benefit of a few people,
contending that he is entitled to protection of his property and
his privacy. He said it was possible that an agreement could
have been reached had Mr. Menzelos discussed with him the matter
of replacement and compensation for any foliage removed. He
suggested the City Council should be aware of the liability the
City is undertaking, and advised that the ordinance will soon be
tested in court.
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VIEW RESTORATION IPMMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
Committee Member Weisz informed Mr. Ross that in passing
Proposition M, the citizens of the community decided that a view
is a property right to the same extent that a tree is, and it is
the responsibility of the Committee to attempt to balance these
two rights by looking at both the foliage and the view and trying
to determine whether the foliage unreasonably intrudes on the
view. Mr. Ross responded that everyone he has spoken with was
under the assumption that the ordinance pertains only to foliage
that grows after the passage of the ordinance. He added that
depriving a person of his rights (whether property or view
rights) requires compensation.
Mr. Huang asserted that the VRC minutes of October 4, 1990 state
that Monterey pines may enjoy protected status, and quoted from
Article V of the Bill of Rights regarding the taking of private
property for public use without just compensation. He repeated
that if any of his property is taken there must be replacement or
compensation, but he does not want to lose any of his privacy by
the removal of foliage.
Committee Member Weisz moved to close the public hearing, Member
Sweetnam seconded and the motion passed without objection.
Assistant City Attorney clarified that no determination has been
made by staff regarding the applicability of CEQA to Monterey
pines because the applicant in the case in point voluntarily
withdrew those trees from the application.
During a lengthy discussion of the age of the foliage, Associate
Planner Patterson said staff could research the grading records
in the tract files to verify that none of the foliage existed
prior to creation of the lots. Attorney Hakman voiced her
concern that the Committee had not seen the photos submitted by
Mrs. Menzelos, and advised a continuance to allow staff to look
through their files and the Committee to review the photographs.
It was moved by Committee Member Murphy and seconded by Member
Weisz that the hearing be continued to the VRC meeting of March
7, 1991. The motion passed on a 4-2 vote, with Members Lorenzen
and Sweetnam dissenting.
Committee Member Murphy moved that the public hearing be reopened
and that the public comment be confined specifically to the issue
of whether the foliage preceded the development of the lots. The
motion was seconded by Member Weisz and passed on a 5-1 vote,
with Member Lorenzen dissenting.
Chairman Clark called for a recess at 9: 27 p.m. The meeting was
reconvened at 9:48 p.m.
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VIEW RESTORATION OPMMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
MATTERS REMOVED FROM CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Minutes of January 17, 1991
Mr. James Quong requested several changes to Page 6 of the
minutes. The Committee explained that they are summary minutes,
not verbatim. Agreement was reached to amend the second
paragraph on Page 6 as follows:
Foliage owner Mr. James Quong challenged the cooperation
claims of the applicants, asserting that an offer to pay the
costs of removal of foliage does not constitute cooperation.
He said he had not spoken to the McNeelys with respect to
the foliage since 1982, until the application was filed. He
contended that the applicants seem to feel he owes them
their view, but they don't seem to think his trees have any
value to him. He said the pine tree offers him privacy, air
conditioning, fresh air, and in addition the pine needles
are an ionizer and some people believe they help the immune
system and retard aging. On questioning, Mr. Quong stated
that if something has to be done to the pine tree he would
prefer removal to trimming since he has been informed by
Travers Tree Service that the pine tree might not survive
trimming.
Committee Member Weisz moved and Member Murphy seconded that the
minutes be approved as amended. The motion passed unanimously.
B. VRC Resolution No. 91- , approving View Restoration Permit
No. 9 to trim and remove vegetation at 26144 Barkstone
Drive.
Mr. Quong made a comment with respect to photographs not
being entered into evidence and requested that replacement trees
be mentioned in the Resolution. His requests were considered and
then rejected by the Committee.
Committee Member Murphy moved and Member Boudreau seconded that
the Resolution be approved as submitted. The motion passed
unanimously.
NEW BUSINESS
There was no new business on the agenda.
QUESTIONS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items)
Mr. Fred C. Tanner, 6432 Via Canada (Miraleste) , said he
submitted View Restoration Permit Application No. 18 in September
of 1990, which was approved in October and given to Associate
Planner John Leung to process. When Mr. Leung left the City, it
was assigned to Fabio de Freitas, and the hearing date has been
put forward twice since then. The City is required to process
the application within six months (by 4/9/91) and Mr. Tanner has
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VIEW RESTORATION MMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
now been asked to sign an application for a 90-day extension.
Mr. Tanner stated that he does not want an extension, and
requested that his case be moved up on the schedule.
Senior Planner Petru explained that due to the reassignment of
the project, because there are several property owners and a lot
of foliage which is in the Miraleste district, and because it was
necessary to clear the agenda on March 21 for discussion of the
proposed amendment to the view restoration ordinance, staff was
running into a deadline problem. She proposed that staff could
prepare the Resolution for the April 4 meeting, when the hearing
is scheduled, and if the Committee doesn't reach an agreement at
that time, a 30-day extension could be requested.
Assistant City Attorney Hakman explained that if the Committee
takes no action by the 4ittr. action date, the application is granted
automatically, without any discussion or decision by the
Committee. However, the Committee could choose to deny the
application if the applicant does not agree to an extension. A
new application would then have to be submitted. She noted that
this has not come up before and she would like to look into the
subject.
It was agreed that both the staff report and the resolution would
be prepared for the April 4 meeting. Mr. Tanner agreed to sign a
request for a 30-day extension to cover the possibility that no
decision is reached on April 4 .
Mr. John Sharkey of 30320 Avenida de Calma read a prepared
statement which asserted that the Committee must develop a tree
replacement policy providing for all costs to be borne by the
applicant. Additionally, he urged that all pending cases be
suspended, all permits issued be recalled, that provision be made
for replacement of any trees which do not survive trimming, and
that trees ordered removed be removed by the root system. The
full statement was distributed and entered into the record.
Mr. James Quong inquired whether his request to listen to and
copy portions of the January 17, 1991 meeting tapes had been
approved. Senior Planner Petru replied that the Director of
Environmental Services is currently assessing the request. Mr.
Quong then asked whether his five-page letter and other letters
he submitted to the City had been read by the Committee Members,
staff and the Assistant City Attorney. He was assured that all
Committee Members and staff receive copies of such correspondence
and it is all read.
REPORTS
A. STAFF
Senior Planner Petru reviewed the status of View Restoration
Permit applications. She added that Application No. 25 has just
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VIEW RESTORATION L MMITTEE MEETING
February 21, 1991
been received and is being reviewed for completeness. Member
Sweetnam suggested that perhaps after April the VRC meetings
could be held only once a month.
B. COMMITTEE
Chairman Clark reported on the City Council meeting of February
19, 1991, when the second public hearing was held on the tree
removal and replacement amendment to the ordinance. As a result
of several residents voicing their objections to the Committee's
procedures and actions, the Council continued the public hearing
and directed the Committee to finalize its position regarding
procedural implementation of the changes to the ordinance and
bring that back to the Council. Chairman Clark said he spoke to
the Mayor after the meeting and was assured that the Council has
not changed in its full support of the Committee and its actions.
Chairman Clark stated that the half-hour interview spot for cable
TV should be ready to be shown very soon; he asked Senior Planner
Petru to check on the status.
Ms. Petru reported that a City consultant is putting the final
touches on the newsletter containing information on the view
restoration process.
Committee Member Sweetnam reported that the Subcommittee on
Measurement Standards will meet on Thursday, February 28.
Chairman Clark mentioned that the executive workshop was quite
productive, covering staff reports, foliage owner visitation, ex
parte communications, litigation and other matters. A follow-on
meeting will be held on March 1. The results of the workshops
will be documented and distributed to Committee Members.
The need for a joint workshop with the City Council and the View
Restoration Committee was expressed by Chairman Clark. He said
it is important to move rapidly and develop an agenda for such a
meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:47 p.m. to March 7, 1991 at 7: 00
p.m.
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