PC MINS 20041214CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 14, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
Appr ved
January 11, 0.Q5
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mueller at 7:00 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Gerstner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Karp, Knight, Perestam, and Chairman Mueller
Commissioner Tetreault arrived at 8.00 p m
Absent. None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Fox, and Associate Planner Schonborn,
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was approved as presented, (5-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas reported that Vice Chair Cote has resigned from the Planning
Commission and that recruitment for a new Planning Commissioner is underway. He
also reported that the City Council had begun to hear the appeal of Planning
Commission's decision on the driveway on Vista Del Mar but no decision has been
made.
Chairman Mueller thanked Ms. Cote for her service on the Planning Commission.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
None
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Revision to the August 10, 2004 Planning Commission Minutes
The Planning Commission unanimously approved the requested amendment to
the minutes. (5-0)
2. Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2004-00550): 6612 Channelview Court
Commissioner Knight asked if any of the proposed work would be conducted in the
public right-of-way.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the sign would be located on private property
Commissioner Knight noted there are tall bushes on the property and asked if the
Planning Commission is required to make sure the bushes do not interfere with the
visibility triangle.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the process involves the Public Works staff
performing a site visit to verify the site distances are adequate, noting that a memo from
the Public Works Department did not recommend any changes to the bushes or foliage
on the property.
Bob Nelson 6612 Channelview Court stated that he was required to create a visibility
triangle, and was inspected by the City
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the project, via minute order, as
recommended by staff, seconded by Commissioner Karp. Approved, (5-0).
3. Amendment to Height Variation 884 and Conditions of Approval of Tract
31617 (Case No. ZON2004-00409): 6270 Ocean Terrace Drive
Commissioner Knight discussed section 3 of the Height Vanation Resolution, which
discusses the balcony encroachment. He noted there was a statement in the
Resolution which says that the neighboring property's view was significantly impaired.
He did not recall that the Planning Commission made the determination that there was a
significant view impairment based upon the Municipal Code, and asked staff to clarify
the wording in the Resolution.
Associate Planner Schonborn felt that the Planning Commission's conclusion was that
there was a view impairment created by the balcony.
Chairman Mueller agreed with Commission Knight, noting that his recollection was that
there were several opinions among the Commissioners, however he recalled in the
discussion that he pointed out that the height of the balcony is below the 16 -foot by right
height limit, and therefore could not be used when discussing significant view
impairment.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 2
Commissioner Perestam added that his recollection was that the Planning Commission
was very explicit that the balcony did not cause a view impairment, as it is under 16 -feet
in height.
Chairman Mueller suggested striking the section discussing significant view impact
resulting from the balcony
Commissioner Perestam agreed, noting that it did not have a bearing on the motion or
the vote.
Director/Secretary Rojas suggested removing Section 3 entirely from the Resolution,
and the Commission agreed.
Commissioner Knight referred to the Resolution for the tract amendment, Section 2, he
noted that he had mentioned at the last meeting that particular statement in the
resolution was open ended and suggested adding a statement saying "pursuant to
Condition 3 in exhibit A", which specifies that certain things have to be done in order for
the columns to remain
Associate Planner Schonborn noted typos in the Resolution regarding the height
variation that would be corrected. He also noted that in Exhibit A of the Resolution,
condition 3, he noted that staff does not incorporate a time limit to commence the work
and recommended the condition further read that "the balcony shall be removed or
modified within 180 days from the date of this approval".
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that he had received an e-mail from Commissioner
Tetreault with his recommended changes to the Resolution. He stated that
Commissioner Tetreault was requesting a clarification be made to Condition 3 of the
Resolution to clarify the property line, as currently the condition requires the balcony
maintain a 15 -foot setback, which is equivalent to a 30 -foot setback from the rear south
property line. He suggested language be added clarifying that as such line existed at
the time the Planning Commission approved Height Variation No 884 on August 23,
1999.
The Planning Commission agreed to that change
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-51 thereby
approving Case No. ZON2004-00409, and adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-52 as
amended as follows: 1) Add to Exhibit A, Condition 3 to reflect the date of August
23, 1999; 2) to add language that work shall the balcony shall be removed or
modified within 180 days of approval; 3) remove section 3 from the height
variation Resolution; 4) page 3, Section 2 of the Resolution of the Tract
Amendment Resolution, make reference to condition 3 of Exhibit A, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (4-0-1) with Commissioner Gerstner abstaining.
4. One time extension of Parcel Map 26896 (Case No. SUB2004-00013)
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 3
The Planning Commission unanimously approved the requested 1 -year time extension,
thereby setting the final expiration date of Tentative Parcel Map No 25896 as
November 28, 2005, with all conditions of approval remaining in full force and effect
CONTINUED BUSINESS
. View Restoration Permit No. 173: 32653 Seagate Drive, Unit 106
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the applicant has withdrawn the application, and
staff was requesting the Planning Commission accept the withdrawal
Commissioner Karp moved to accept the withdrawal of the permit as requested,
seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (5-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
6. Revision to Variance and Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00542): 2967
Crest Road
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the applicant is
requesting to revise the current approvals to allow for an additional 600 square feet to
the residence He explained the proposed addition and that staff did an assessment of
the addition, noting that with regards to bulk and mass nothing has changed from the
original assessment, as the footprint will not change. Therefore, staff was
recommending approval of the revision to the Variance and Grading Permit.
Commissioner Karp asked if the house was currently under construction
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the house is currently framed.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the Planning Commission had any discussion or
concerns when this house was originally approved regarding the neighborhood
compatibility as it related to the size of the proposed residence.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that the size of the proposed residence in relation
to neighborhood compatibility was not an issue during the original Planning Commission
hearing
Commissioner Knight referred to the soils report for the construction of the new home
and asked staff if a subsequent report has been submitted showing the soil under the
currently poured slab is adequate, and has the City Geologist approved that report
Associate Planner Schonborn replied that this is reviewed during the Building and
Safety plan check process
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 4
Commissioner Perestam asked staff to clarify what changes would be visible from the
outside if this addition were approved
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that there would be a window in the location of
the currently approved screen access area.
Commissioner Tetreault arrived at 8:00 p.m.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp stated that this project, as proposed, is innocuous, however he was
disturbed that once again the Planning Commission was being asked to approve
something after -the -fact. He did not want to set a precedent that once something is
built without approvals it will eventually get approval from the Planning Commission. He
noted, however, that this project could easily be approved, even though he did not
approve of the method' in which the approval was requested He questioned why the
building inspectors did not catch this change and stop work on the area until approvals
were given
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the only change would be the installation of the
window rather than the screen, and the building inspectors brought this change to the
attention of the Planning Department
Commissioner Tetreault agreed with Commissioner Karp's comments, however he
understood how changes could be conceived once construction has begun, and to
restrict applicants to the approved plans could be somewhat difficult and arbitrary if the
changes are rather innocuous. He felt the changes in this application were innocuous,
as there are no changes to the footprint or lot coverage.
Commissioner Knight also agreed with Commissioner Karp's comments regarding after -
the -fact construction. He felt that the addition of 600 square feet was adding square
footage to an already very large home. He was concerned that applicants could get the
impression that larger projects could be piecemealed to avoid complications a large
project may bring when before the Planning Commission.
Chairman Mueller agreed with the comments of the other Commissioners, however he
noted that in this situation the change to the appearance of the home is slight and was
not against approving the project, even though he had some concerns about the overall
size of the house.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-53 thereby
approving Case No. ZON2004-00542 as presented by staff, seconded by
Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (6-0)
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 5
7. Height Variation (Case No. ZON2004-00194): 7239 Rue Ia Fleur
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and stating that staff was able to make the necessary findings to approve the
height variation. He noted that staff had received comments in response to the public
notice of the proposed project that were related to neighborhood compatibility and view
impairment With regards to neighborhood compatibility, he explained that staff
determined the resulting structure size did not deviate from the structure size in the
immediate neighborhood Regarding view impairment, he explained that staff did a site
visit to a neighboring property, and concluded that significant view impairment would not
result to the neighboring property from their primary viewing area. Therefore, staff was
recommending approval of the proposed project subject to the conditions in the staff
report.
Commissioner Tetreault discussed the concerns of the neighbor regarding views, and
noted that the Development Code states that a resident may appeal staffs decision of a
primary viewing area and the determination of primary viewing area will then be made
by the body reviewing the application He asked staff if the neighbor had appealed
staffs decision regarding primary viewing area.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that Mr Zirkel had not formally appealed staffs
decision of the determination of the primary viewing area, however he felt that this is the
forum that will allow him to do so as he can state his case to the Planning Commission
as to why he feels the second story master bedroom should be considered the primary
viewing area
Commissioner Knight asked if the photographs in the staff report were taken by staff or
the applicant
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that the neighbor took the photographs
Commissioner Perestam asked if there had been any discussion with the applicant
regarding the design of the project.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that staff did not have a concern with the
design and neighborhood compatibility because of the location of the addition and the
incorporation of the gable roof.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Elmer Zirkel 7233 Rue Ia Fleur stated that the Rancho Palos Verdes Guidelines are
very specific to preserve views and to protect, enhance, and perpetuate views available
to property owners. He stated that the guidelines state that the view may be located on
the 2nd or higher story of the structure, noting that his view is in the master bedroom on
the second story and this is his only view room He felt that the applicants want to take
his view and give it to themselves for their new "apartment" and make him pay for it by
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 6
devaluating his residence He felt this should not be allowed without exploring all
possible means. He stated that the request by the Changs takes out a large portion of
his ocean, offshore islands, and all of the fall and winter sunset views. He stated that
his view extends from Malibu to the tip of Catalina Island, which he felt is protected by
the Municipal Code which defines protected views as a far view containing the word
ocean and off -shore islands. He also stated that the Code states clearly that even if the
view impairment is determined not to be significant the view should be protected, noting
that if does not say some or partially, but all, and that the new addition to an existing
structure above 16 feet should be designed and situated in a manner to reasonably
minimize view impairment. He also noted that the Code states that view impairment
may be minimized by redesigning or relocating the structure or reducing the size of the
structure. He did not feel that the applicant had attempted any of these and instead his
design is for maximum height and maximum coverage on the back of the roof and felt
that the addition looms like a large ocean liner from the view from his house He felt
that there was also potential for cumulative view impairment, as the residents at 7245
Rue la Fleur could obtain the same variance and their addition would further block his
view. He disagreed with staffs finding of neighborhood compatibility, noting that no
house in the immediate neighborhood has increased the crown height from the original
roof He gave several examples of homes in the neighborhood that have a second
story addition but have had no modification to the existing roofline. He wondered how
the Planning Commission could approve this request with the outstanding issues and
asked what basis the Planning Commission would have to disapprove anything
submitted by anyone in the future that would like the same height variation and roof
coverage as requested by the Changs.
Commissioner Perestam asked Mr. Zirkel if he has modified his house in any way.
Mr. Zirkel answered that his home has not been modified, except for the bay window in
the dining room, which is on the first floor
Commissioner Tetreault asked Mr. Zirkel if he disagrees with staffs determination of
where the viewing area is in his home
Mr. Zirkel stated he disagrees with staffs determination, noting that the only room that
has an ocean view is the master bedroom.
Commissioner Gerstner wanted Mr. Zirkel to be aware that if it is determined in this
instance that the primary viewing area is from the master bedroom, that determination
cannot change in the future if there is another application before staff
Mr. Zirkel understood, stating that the only viewing room from his house is the master
bedroom.
Chairman Mueller stated that Mr. Zirkel disagrees with staff's determination of the
viewing area, and referring to the Guidelines, asked Mr Zirkel if he is claiming his main
living area is on the second floor of his residence
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 7
Mr. Zirkel answered that he did not feel that was required and referred to a section in
the Code. He stated that this is his only viewing area in the house.
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Zirkel what his recommendation would be for the new
proposed chimney.
Mr. Zirkel felt that there was no reason for a chimney, as the applicant could install a
gas or electric fireplace that would not require a chimney.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp asked if moving the second story addition up and closer to the
street would mitigate many of Mr. Zirkel's concerns.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that could potentially mitigate some of Mr
Zirkel's concerns, however moving the addition forward may raise questions regarding
bulk and mass of the structure.
Commissioner Perestam noted that there is a wide variety of homes in the
neighborhood and various sizes of homes, which the neighborhood seems to absorb
quite well In looking at the plans, Commissioner Perestam noted that modifying the
roof pitch would make the home more compatible with the neighborhood as well as
mitigating the view impact from Mr. Zirkel's home He also noted that this would not
necessarily cause a modification in the overall square footage of the applicant's home
Commissioner Knight asked staff if lowering the roof would indeed mitigate the view
impairment from Mr. Zirkel's home
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that because of the view angle the proposed
roof on the second story would most likely be over the horizon line at any pitch.
Commissioner Tetreault asked staff to explain the section in the Guidelines which
identifies the areas of a home that can be considered a viewing area, specifically when
discussing the viewing area on a second story
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the Zirkel residence is a two-story
residence above 16 feet in height. Therefore, had the height variation process been in
place when the home was built in 1969, any residence built over 16 feet in height would
have been subject to the height variation process, and therefore the exceptions
discussed in the Code would not apply.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that Prop M describes where the viewing area can be
located in a home, and asked staff if Prop M or the Development Code allows the
Planning Commission to take into account the impact a structure may have on the view
of a neighboring home taken from a room that is not defined as a view area.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 8
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the Code states that views are protected from
viewing areas, and the Planning Commission cannot go beyond the viewing area. He
also explained that the Guidelines state how a viewing area is defined, noting that the
Guidelines state a viewing area cannot be taken from a second story, with two
exceptions He explained that staff has determined Mr. Zirkel's home does not meet
either of the exceptions.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8.45 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 9:00 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (cont)
Commissioner Karp asked staff if the Planning Commission is able to make the finding
that the main viewing area is at the second floor master bedroom
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that if the Planning Commission follows the
Guidelines then they cannot make that determination, and read the section of the
Guidelines that discusses the primary viewing area requirements. He explained that for
the master bedroom to be considered a primary viewing area it would have to be on the
same level as the main living area He stated that in this situation the master bedroom
is not on the same level as the main living area and therefore does not qualify for the
exceptions in the City Council approved guidelines.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he has not been in the Zirkel residence, however it
does not appear that there is any view from the first floor and the only viewing area is
from the second floor. He asked staff if it was possible to say the best and most
important view is from the second story bedroom.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the Guidelines state the viewing area is where
the best and most important view is taken, however the Guidelines go on to say that the
area shall not be from a second story room Further, it has been a policy of the City that
one cannot gain a view from a second story or by the addition of a second story
Chairman Mueller agreed, adding that one cannot capture a view by having built a
second story that would have required a height variation at the time it was built
Commissioner Knight stated that he was concerned with the cumulative view impact, as
it was apparent to him that this tract was built and designed in such a fashion that
people could get some type of view of the ocean from some part of their house He
asked if this was a finding that the Planning Commission could consider in this
application
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 9
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that part of making the finding for cumulative view is
consideration of the amount of view impairment caused by the view structure that is
above 16 feet He noted that there is no reference to viewing area in the finding,
however staff has taken the position that when discussing views, the views are taken
from the viewing area to be consistent with Prop M. In reviewing the Guidelines he
noted that it states the criteria for determining the significance of a cumulative view
impairment is the same as for the significance of an individual structure
Chairman Mueller added that in past cases when considering cumulative view impact,
the view was considered from the primary viewing area He asked staff if there was
anything that could be done with the chimney to help mitigate the view impact
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that per the Development Code, chimneys are
allowed to be constructed without taking views or view impairment into account.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he first saw the structure he wasn't looking at it so
much for the view, but more for neighborhood compatibility, specifically for finding no.2.
He stated the neighborhood is one of long, low gabled type roofs and the roofs are a
very dominant part of the aesthetics. He stated the houses are not so much about the
front facade of the house but more of the appearance of the cohesive mass. He felt that
many houses in the neighborhood have solved the problem of a second story addition
by working within the framework of the structure. He stated that to do this in this case,
the addition would have to be moved more towards the center of the existing house
where there is more of the higher peak in the existing roof. He felt that if other homes in
the neighborhood were able to build second story additions in this manner, and if it is
possible to do so with this residence, then he felt to be consistent with the neighborhood
it should be investigated to solve the problem in a manner consistent with the way the
same problem has been solved in the neighborhood. He felt this problem could be
solved with some variations made to the second floor addition and, if necessary, wanted
to see some drawings to show him it wouldn't work.
Commissioner Knight agreed, adding that he would recommend this item be denied or
continued and instruct the applicant to present alternatives to the Planning Commission
that will better meet the needs of the applicant and the concerns of the neighbor
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he has a great deal of sympathy for the Zirkels and
could appreciate the pleasure they get from looking out their bedroom window to enjoy
their ocean view. However, he did not feel the viewing area could be taken from the
master bedroom, therefore, the Planning Commission cannot deny the application
based upon view obstruction. Reviewing neighborhood compatibility, he agreed that
Commissioner Gerstner's idea might work for both the applicant and the neighbor,
however he did not think the Planning Commission should dictate to the applicant what
the design should be if, looking at the plan as presented to the Planning Commission, it
meets the test of neighborhood compatibility. He felt that the proposed addition is well
back from the street, it does not appear to impose a great deal of bulk and mass, and
the style is consistent with the neighborhood Therefore, he was having difficulty saying
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 10
that it is not compatible in order to force upon the applicant an alternative that the
Planning Commission or the neighbor would prefer.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff if this situation regarding the view from the second
story is unique, or if it is something that staff sees frequently.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that it is common to have residents raise issues
about views being blocked from second stories, and staffs response is that views are
not protected from second stories
Chairman Mueller asked staff if this current design was the only one that was submitted
to staff, or if the applicant had submitted alternate designs at some time during the
process.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that this was the only design submitted to staff.
Chairman Mueller asked staff if they felt this particular addition, if built, would look in any
way out of place in the neighborhood.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that staff concluded the addition would not be
apparent or cause a negative impact to the neighborhood when viewed from the street.
Commissioner Karp stated that possibly in the strictest interpretation there would be no
issue with the view impairment, however he did not see it that way and felt that the
Planning Commission has to be able to use some discretion and good judgment when
making decisions He felt Commissioner Gerstner's point was well taken and urged the
Planning Commission to continue the item to allow the applicant to redesign the
addition He felt this was within the purview of the Planning Commission to do this, and
did not think the Commission was bound by any hard and fast rules, and if that was the
case there would be no need for a Planning Commission.
Commissioner Perestam asked staff if the applicant or architect was in attendance and
if the Planning Commission could request they answer some questions.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that they were at the meeting, however had not
requested to speak.
Commissioner Gerstner explained that his earlier comments were based on his opinion
about neighborhood compatibility and this particular design. He felt that the architect
could do something to the design to make it more compatible with the neighborhood
and the Planning Commission has the opportunity to do so. He clarified that he was not
requesting this because of the view from the neighbor's house but on compatibility
issues only
Commissioner Knight stated that even though the design may not stand out in the
neighborhood, it does have a bit of a broken up boxy look on one corner of the house,
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 11
and agreed that the architect might be able to design an addition that is more
compatible with the some of the other remodels that have happened in the
neighborhood. He too noted that his comments about redesigning the addition were
independent of the view issue of the neighbor.
Chairman Mueller asked staff if there was an issue with the deadline on the Permit
Streamlining Act
Associate Planner Schonborn replied that the deadline was December 24, and the
applicant would have to agree to a 90 -day extension in order for the item to be
continued
Commissioner Gerstner suggested the Planning Commission request an extension from
the applicant, continue the item, and ask the applicant to respond with some designs
that are more within the volume of the existing structure.
Commissioner Tetreault did not feel that this proposed addition was so offensive as to
not meet the neighborhood compatibility guidelines. He felt that the Planning
Commission was supposed to look at the designs submitted and reject those that are
too offensive rather than finding ones that perhaps are agreeable, but could be made
better, and turning those away to improve upon them. He stated that the Guidelines are
submitted to the Planning Commission by the City Council and he feels bound to them.
He noted that the applicant, or anyone else, has the right of appeal to the City Council if
they do not agree with the decision, and if anyone is going to deviate from the
Guidelines it should be the City Council.
Chairman Mueller re -opened the public hearing to ask the applicant or their
representative to address the Planning Commission.
Wayne Sun 3345 Wilshire Blvd (architect) explained that the Changs need additional
space for their growing family as well as the parents that are living with them
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Sun if he was willing to grant an extension to the Permit
Streamlining Act.
Mr. Sun answered that he was willing to grant the 90 -day extension.
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Sun if there was anything he wanted to tell the
Commission about alternative designs versus the design currently submitted to the
Planning Commission
Chris Kung 2500 Wilshire Blvd (contractor) stated that the design follows the City
Guidelines and Building Code, and as long as he builds the project per the Codes, there
shouldn't be any problems with the project. He asked the Planning Commission for
clarification as to whether the proposed project blocks views from the neighboring
residence
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 12
Chairman Mueller explained that the Planning Commission is currently struggling with
the finding of neighborhood compatibility rather than the issue of views from the
neighboring property
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Gerstner stated it was his opinion that the proposed addition was not
compatible with the style and mass of either the existing house or other additions that
have happened in the neighborhood. He felt that if other additions in the neighborhood
could be compatible with the neighborhood in a different way than this addition would,
then he would like to continue the item to allow the applicant to try to redesign the
addition, at the same size, but in a more compatible way. He felt that could be done by
working within the existing volume of the existing gables, which would allow for the
expansion within the attic He felt that the house from the street would not become
much larger and remain more compatible with the neighborhood.
Commissioner Knight agreed with Commissioner Gerstner's comments He added that
this addition appears boxy and therefore not compatible with the other additions in the
neighborhood, which tends to have a lower profile within the structure. He stated that
he would like to see a similar type of design, if possible, to make the house more
compatible with the neighborhood.
Commissioner Perestam thanked the applicant for granting the extension as it would
allow the architect an opportunity to work through modifications to the plan and
everyone may be in a better position at the end of that exercise
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to March 8, 2005 to
allow the applicant time to come back to staff and the Planning Commission with
an alternative design that is more compatible with the neighborhood by working
the second story into the existing lines of the house, which would be more of an
expansion into the attic, and possibly changing roof lines but attempting not to
raise the overall height of the structure beyond what it currently is, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (5-1) with Commissioner Tetreault dissenting.
8. Code Amendment for Geologic Disclosure Ordinance (Case No. ZON2004-
00530)
Senior Planner Fox presented the staff report, explaining the draft Geologic Disclosure
Ordinance and the need for the Planning Commission to review the code amendment.
He explained that the Ordinance, as currently proposed, would only apply to Landslide
Moratorium Exclusion requests and to applications for residential sub -divisions that
propose significant remedial grading. He explained that staff, the City Attorney, and
Councilman Stern drafted the language in the draft Ordinance that has been forwarded
to the Planning Commission from the City Council, and staff is recommending the
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 13
Planning Commission forward back to the City Council a recommendation to approve
the Code Amendment via minute order.
Commissioner Knight asked staff if a geologist or Councilman Stern came up with the
thresholds of 1,000 cubic yards and the 10 -foot depth of fill or excavation
Senior Planner Fox answered that it was his understanding Councilman Stern came up
with those numbers, noting there was no specific reference as to why those numbers
were chosen. He noted that 1,000 cubic yards was typically the threshold at which the
Planning Commission reviews grading permits and 10 feet in depth is the maximum limit
at which remedial grading is subject to minor review.
Commissioner Knight asked how the nature and scope of the grading would be
disclosed.
Senior Planner Fox answered that staff anticipates that the actual disclosure document
that is recorded will not contain a lot of specific information, but rather disclose to a
future buyer that remedial grading has been done on the property and would refer that
potential buyer to the City to review whatever material the City has on file. He stated
that the intent is to notify a potential buyer that remedial grading has been done on a
property.
Commissioner Knight asked if there is anything that will accompany the disclosure that
will explain or interpret what the grading meant.
Senior Planner Fox explained that staff has not developed the language for the
covenant, and perhaps that is something that needs to be addressed.
Commissioner Knight asked if there would be any type of geotechnical input into the
disclosure
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that when a covenant is recorded, and when a
potential buyer is doing a title search and discovers the covenant, they can then choose
to come to the City to do further research. He noted that projects that would trigger this
covenant are projects with significant grading and there would be extensive staff reports
and geotechnical reports on file. He noted that staff does not interpret geology reports
on file, and anyone who comes to the City to review these reports either interprets the
reports themselves or has a geologist interpret the report for them
Commissioner Knight asked if the covenant would be recorded against the subdivision
or on each individual lot in the subdivision
Commissioner Karp stated that when a covenant is recorded on a piece of property and
the property is then subdivided, the covenant would also be recorded with each
individual lot.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 14
Senior Planner Fox added that the intent of this Ordinance is that disclosure would
appear on every affected property.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the 1,000 cubic yards was the combination of both the
cut and the fill.
Senior Planner Fox answered that staff looks at the total quantity of cut and fill
combined, as defined by the Development Code.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if this type of covenant was common in other
municipalities.
Senior Planner Fox responded that staff had not done research on that and therefore
did not know.
Commissioner Knight asked if this would only apply to residential development, as that
is how it is worded in the Ordinance.
Senior Planner Fox acknowledged that the Ordinance referred to "residential
subdivisions" and that it might be appropriate to change the wording to "subdivisions"
Commissioner Karp felt that the recording of the covenants was a very good idea,
however he felt that it should encompass a smaller quantity of grading and be for every
lot in the City.
Commissioner Knight stated that he still had a concern about exactly what a buyer will
be receiving and how that would be interpreted He asked staff if they could explore
that issue and possibly come up with a draft covenant for the City Council to review.
Senior Planner Fox felt that was a good concern and that staff would discuss this with
the City Attorney before the Ordinance goes back to the City Council.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that this should be an equitable application of the law and if
this is being done based on the City's knowledge of remedial grading then any property
for which the City has knowledge that there was remedial grading conducted should
have to record the same covenant.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that the application should be broadened to not just the
landslide moratorium area, but to any property in the City that does 1,000 cubic yards of
remedial grading within 2 years and does not necessarily have to be residential
property. That way he did not feel there would be any discrimination between
properties He also suggesting wording in the covenant saying that the covenant was
by city ordinance enacted as of a particular date that all properties that fall into this
category from that date forward are required to make this disclosure. He felt this would
help prevent potential buyers from getting the wrong idea when looking at two
properties, one with the disclosure and one without.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 15
Commissioner Knight moved to forward the recommended draft to the City
Council with the term "residential" removed from page 3 of 4, paragraph 9, that
the City Council consider the comments made at this meeting, and that the City
submit a draft covenant for the Planning Commission to review and comment on
before the item is forwarded to the City Council, seconded by Chairman Mueller.
Approved, (4-2) with Commissioners Gerstner and Tetreault dissenting.
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES
9. Minutes of November 23, 2004
Commissioner Karp moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Gerstner
abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE MEETINGS
10. Pre -agenda for the meeting of January 11, 2005
Director/Secretary Rojas reviewed the pre -agenda for the January 11, 2005 meeting.
Commissioner Karp stated that he would be absent from the January 11th meeting and
Commissioner Knight stated he would possibly be absent from the meeting
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11 25 p m.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 14, 2004
Page 16