PC MINS 20040928CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
SEPTEMBER 28, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
October 26, 2004
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mueller at 7:05 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Karp led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Karp, Knight, Gerstner, Tetreault, and Chairman Mueller
Vice Chair Cote arrived at 7 17 p m
Absent None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Blumenthal, and Associate Planner Schonborn.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed four letters for Agenda Item No 1, five letters for
Agenda Item No 2, and comments from Commissioner Knight regarding Agenda Items
6 and 7
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
Mike O'Sullivan 30466 Via Cambron discussed a very large deck at a neighboring home
and that he believes the deck may be non -complying to the City codes He explained
that he recently was before the Planning Commission with a view restoration case and
was directed to remove a tree. He felt that the removal of this tree will cause further
privacy issues from this deck. He stated that he has a handout for the Planning
Commission, which includes excerpts from the staff report that he believes are
erroneous He asked that the Planning Commission and staff review this information
and requested this item be put on a future agenda for the Planning Commission.
Chairman Mueller felt it was appropriate for the Planning Commission to receive the
written comments from Mr O'Sullivan
Commissioner Knight asked staff if this was something the Planning Commission could
take action on.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered this request is not in the Planning Commission's
purview to direct staff to investigate issues on properties that are not before the
Planning Commission. He noted that this was an issue brought before the City Council
during the appeal, and the City Council did not direct staff to look into the issue.
Chairman Mueller asked staff if this issue was brought before the City Council during
the appeal and if Mr O'Sullivan was informed at that time of what his options were.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that he has met with Mr. O'Sullivan since the City
Council decision.
Mr. O'Sullivan stated that the City Council determined that the deck was not an issue in
regards to the view restoration case, however he has met with some members of the
City Council since the meeting and it was suggested that he address the deck as a
separate issue before the Planning Commission
Chairman Mueller explained that the Planning Commission does not have the authority
to take on a particular case and require the staff to investigate, unless it was before the
Planning Commission as a formal application.
Mr. O'Sullivan explained that staff performed a code compliance investigation, however
he does not feel that investigation was thorough He asked if there was no means of
appeal for such investigations
Chairman Mueller stated there was no mechanism to appeal this before the Planning
Commission
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that any resident who is not happy with an action
staff has taken on an issue can go to the City Manager or the City Council and raise the
issue.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Equestrian Code Amendment (Case No. ZON2004-00264)
Commissioners Knight and Gerstner recused themselves from the public hearing and
sat in the audience, as they both live within the equestrian overlay district.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 2
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the Equestrian
Committee had requested the City Council initiate a code amendment to require all
properties within the Equestrian Overlay District have an area that corresponds with the
minimum horse keeping area required by the Development Code. He explained that the
purpose of the code amendment is to require property owners within the four Equestrian
Overly Districts in the City to maintain an 800 square foot area for the keeping of Targe
domestic animals, whether or not animals are currently been kept on the property.
Additionally, staff has taken the opportunity to clarify some ambiguous language in the
required 35 -foot setback for the animal keeping areas He explained that the
Equestrian Committee was concerned that properties in the Equestrian Overlay District
were being improved and developed by non -horse owners in a manner that would
preclude future horse keeping areas He stated that the Equestrian Committee also felt
that requiring this 800 square foot area would ensure that future horse keeping could be
possible on lots currently owned by non -horse owners, would maintain the rural
atmosphere of the City, maintain an equestrian lifestyle within the equestrian district,
and ensure that properties within the district do not lose the opportunity to keep horses.
He explained that staff has included proposed language that would allow property
owners to landscape, build detached patio trellises, gazebos, portable spas, barbeques,
and other non -habitable structures in this 800 square foot area, as these are easily
removable. He stated that staff was recommending the Planning Commission review
the proposed code amendment language, hear public testimony, and take an action
they deem appropriate
Commissioner Karp asked if the 800 square feet could be in front of the residence,
rather than behind the residence
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the 800 square feet could be in front of the
house if the house is set back far enough from the street
Commissioner Karp stated that he did not see a definition of the required dimensions of
the 800 square feet in the proposed code amendment
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff did not determine actual dimensions
of the area and suggested the Planning Commission question the members of the
Equestrian Committee about the proposed dimensions during their public testimony
Commissioner Karp asked staff if they had reviewed any of the deed restrictions of
these properties to see if it is already required to keep an 800 square foot area of
equestrian use.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff had not reviewed the deed
restrictions of the properties.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that there is currently a Second Unit Ordinance within the
City and asked how this proposed ordinance would work, and which ordinance would
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 3
predominate, as this proposed ordinance could prohibit the building of a second unit on
a property
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the proposed ordinance would not have
an affect on the second unit ordinance, since second units are required to meet all of
the zoning requirements of the area.
Commissioner Tetreault commented that he had raised a concern that this proposed
ordinance could be considered a taking or inverse condemnation of property, however
he received a response from staff that the City Attorney did not feel this was the case
Vice Chair Cote noted that the cities of Rolling Hills and Rolling Hills Estates have
similar requirements and asked staff to compare and contrast those similar
requirements, and what was the basis behind the decision to establishing these
requirements
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the proposed code amendment was
requesting a minimum 800 square foot area left on all parcels in the equestrian overlay
district He stated that the Rolling Hills Estates code states that no permit shall be
issued that would preclude keeping or eliminate the implementation of the standards
within the horse districts of the city, and does not define the minimum amount of square
footage. He stated that the code for Rolling Hills requires there be an area available for
corral and stable areas and there be a vehicle access area to these corral and stable
areas He further stated that staff was unsure of decisions behind those ordinances.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that the ordinance in Rolling Hills Estates does provide
for hardship cases and this City's proposed ordinance has no such provision. He asked
why there was no provision for hardships included in this proposed ordinance.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the ability to apply for a Variance to
deviate from any standard in the development code is already in place and staff felt it
was redundant to place this in the proposed ordinance
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Madeline Ryan 28328 Palos Verdes Drive East stated that over 200 signatures have
been submitted in support of this proposed code amendment She explained that in
1997 the City Council voted to change the maximum number of large domestic animals
that could be kept on any of the larger parcels in the equestrian district to four She
stated that reduced the number of horses on her property by 50 percent. She explained
that the space the Equestrian Committee was asking for on a property is a little more
than the area of a 2 -car garage, and did not think the code amendment was going far
enough. She reminded the Planning Commission that the City is very protective of
views and vistas and open space and the characteristics of the equestrian district is
another amenity of the City and deserves equal protection
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 4
Commissioner Tetreault stated that the issue he was struggling with was the balance of
property interests of the individual who may not have any desire to have a horse on
their property versus others who want to have the look and feel of a rural community
around them. He asked Ms. Ryan why she felt, in balancing those property interests, it
was more important to recognize the interests of those who may already have horses
on their property and requiring the neighbors who may not have horses on their property
to keep an area open for horses, when in doing so does not inhibit the horse owners
rights in any way.
Ms. Ryan explained that the City recognizes the areas being discussed as equestrian
overlay zones and anyone moving into those areas should be aware of the zoning, and
the City has an obligation to maintain the area as an equestrian overlay zone. She
stated that the proposed amendment was not prohibiting property owners in these areas
to build, only requiring that a minimum of 800 square feet be set aside.
Richard Bara 1 Peppertree Drive explained that this proposed code amendment was
not intended to put aside 800 square feet so that the area will look and feel rural, nor is
it being proposed for the present horse keepers in the City, but rather it is being
suggested for the benefit of the city of Rancho Palos Verdes to keep it a semi -rural area
and for the future owners of homes in the equestrian overlay district. He explained that
a future owner may want to keep horses on his property in the equestrian district but
cannot do so because there is no area left on the property to keep a horse He felt that
as more and more construction is done on a lot, more and more horse property is being
lost
Commissioner Karp asked what dimensions are necessary to successfully keep a horse
in an 800 square foot area.
Mr. Bara did not know what the proper dimensions should be
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr Bara if he knew what the thought process was when the
equestrian overlay district was originally created and what is currently in the plans from
a guidance perspective
Mr. Bara was not sure if the equestrian zone was originally established with the county
or after the city incorporated. He explained there was a procedure for making the area
an equestrian zone and the areas were written into the city laws.
Director/Secretary Rojas added that he believed that under the County there were horse
keeping areas within the City and when the City incorporated these horse -keeping
areas remained in place
Commissioner Tetreault asked Mr. Bara if he had any idea approximately how many
horses were currently being kept in the city's equestrian district
Mr Bara estimated there are at least 300 horses in all of the equestrian areas
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 5
Charlene O'Neal 38 Headland Drive stated that there is a minimum width needed to
keep horses, which is 10 feet. She felt that to preserve the areas as horse keeping,
space must be preserved for equines now and for future use. She noted that only 800
square feet was being requested for this use, and that the cities of Rolling Hills Estates
and Rolling Hills both have similar codes. She stated that she heartily supports the
code amendment and hopes the Planning Commission sees the advantages and
necessity to support it
Kay Bara 1 Peppertree Drive read a statement from the Palos Verdes Peninsula
Horseman's Association stating the Association supports the proposed code
amendment for the protection of horse property. They felt that imposing the code
amendment will preserve large animal properties and protect the equestrian zone; not
protecting these properties from further development could jeopardize the overlay zone
and have a major negative impact on the value of horse keeping properties. Ms Bara
stated there are 1,067 horse properties in the city, and she did not see this code
amendment as a taking, but rather a giving or protecting of what is or should already be
in place
Dan McCaskill 28630 Rhone Road stated that he has great respect for horses and lives
in the equestrian overlay district He also encourages and supports maintaining the
horse community and trails in the city, however he has some concerns about mandating
his property rights He is also concerned that the subject draft proposal seeks to
introduce an equestrian preserve on private property, while the city has a conflicting
history of not maintaining trails or nurturing the equestrian community He appreciated
and supported the exemptions added to the city staff's draft and would like to see the
exceptions stay in some form in the document.
Sunshine 6 Limetree Lane stated that felt that this code amendment would help
promote the relaxed rural atmosphere that is referred to in neighborhood compatibility,
and a neighborhood is more comfortable if the neighbors are on the comfortable with
each other. She stated that it was difficult when new residents move into the equestrian
district and want to build a tennis court and become annoyed when the neighbors have
horses, and reminded the Planning Commission that the horses were here first. She
explained that the three suggestions she sent to the Planning Commission are based on
preserving the specialness of the horse communities.
Commissioner Karp asked if it was possible to traverse from one equestrian area to
another within the city.
Sunshine answered that there are trails that connect all of the equestrian areas.
Chairman Mueller asked Sunshine if any special permission was needed to use the
trails that go through Rolling Hills or Rolling Hills Estates.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 6
Sunshine explained that there is no permission needed in Rolling Hills Estates, and
Rolling Hills only asks that a nder sign a liability waiver and wear an identification badge
when riding through their city.
Chairman Mueller asked Sunshine how she felt about the suggested setbacks in the
staff report
Sunshine explained that she was in favor of a setback of 35 feet from the structure, but
not necessarily 35 feet from an adjoining setback, noting the problem is the
undeveloped property
Chairman Mueller asked Sunshine if the suggestions she made in her memos were
addressed to the Equestrian Committee before the amendment was drafted.
Sunshine felt that as equestrians and horse keepers these ideas would have been
thought of, however since they weren't she felt she should include them in her memos
Bill Gerstner 5317 Rolling Ridge Road stated that incorporated districts generally do not
provide for farm animals to be kept in the City, however Rancho Palos Verdes created
an Equestrian Overlay District to allow the keeping of large animals under strict
conditions It does not, however, require the keeping of horses and cows He felt this
permitted use makes sure the residents in the equestrian district understand their
neighbors may keep these large equine animals and should expect all that comes with
this permitted use He felt the proposed code amendment shifts this zoning premise
from a permitted use to a required use. He felt that the allocation of land to equestrian
uses could and will preclude other permitted uses. Finally, he felt the proposed
amendment significantly reduces the land available for a house, as the area required for
the proposed equestrian facility could cut the amount of buildable land in half He felt
this would result in a significant rezoning of these properties, would reduce the available
options for homeowners, and could create significant problems for homeowners wanting
to add on to their home He felt if the City was afraid of losing residents who may want
to keep horses, it should focus on the positive side of the equations by improving the
trail network and connecting the equestrian districts throughout the peninsula
Chairman Mueller asked Mr Gerstner if he felt it was better to leave the current zoning
plan in place and perhaps increase the setbacks or was he agreeable to the proposed
amendment which measures the horse keeping facility from the setback.
Mr Gerstner felt that it if something like this were to be passed it would be important to
measure from the setback lines to the adjacent properties, otherwise it would be
restricting the neighbors use of their property. He noted that Rolling Hills Estates has
much larger properties and it is much easier to accommodate these facilities on larger
properties
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 7
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr Gerstner to clarify why he felt the equestrian overlay district
permits a resident to do certain things and how this new set of restrictions would make it
a required use
Mr. Gerstner explained that currently one is allowed to have horses in the equestrian
district and if one chooses to have horses, they can have horses. However, under this
code revision a resident in the equestrian district would have to allocate a portion of
their property for this use, and this use only, in perpetuity. He felt that improving a
property is not a permanent thing and if one wanted to have large animals on the
property, the property can be changed to accommodate that use
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioners Gerstner and Knight left the room during the Planning Commission
deliberation of the application
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8 40 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8.50 p m at which time
they reconvened
CONTINUED BUSINESS (cont)
Vice Chair Cote asked staff about the comments that were submitted by Commissioner
Knight and if staff believes clarification is necessary
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that if Planning Commission recommends the
code amendment be forwarded to the City Council that language be added to require
the minimum dimension of the horse keeping area to be ten feet
Vice Chair Cote asked if someone could be denied a permit for development if the area
on their property is too steep for horse keeping She noted that Commissioner Knight
had offered a solution that the maximum slope percentage be 25 percent, and asked
staff their opinion
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that, as currently written, staff did not address the
maximum slope so that theoretically someone could place their 800 square foot area on
a steep slope, even though horses may never be kept there
Vice Chair Cote asked staff, with this potential change to the code, would a new district
actually be created because of the required or mandatory use of the land
Director/Secretary Rojas did not believe the proposed ordinance would create a new
district, as zoning deals with the land use and the equestrian areas would still be
residential land use. Further, the city is allowed to create restrictions to further the city's
goals in the General Plan, and horse keeping is a use allowed in this zone Therefore,
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 8
staff feels that this restriction, from a City land use perspective, is simply another
ordinance that promotes horse keeping on those lots
Vice Chair Cote understood the concept of having permitted uses on property within the
City and anyone moving into an equestrian community would understand that horses
can be kept on the properties, however she felt it was interesting for the City to create
something that is for the future use rather than for the current property owner's use.
Director/Secretary Rojas acknowledged that this is a new concept involving the
regulation of future land use and is not an easy issue However, he feet that the
proposed code language has been written in a manner, in working with the City
Attorney, that someone can't argue that it precludes someone from using their property
for residential use as the zoning intends it to be
Commissioner Tetreault asked if it would be possible to make such an ordinance that it
would become effective upon the transfer of the property.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff would be concerned with the issue of
how to track when properties in the equestrian district are transferred, however he could
discuss this with the City Attorney.
Chairman Mueller asked staff what percentage of the City is located within the overlay
district.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that within the four equestrian zones there are
just over 1,100 parcel, or approximately 7 percent of the total number of parcels within
the City.
Chairman Mueller waS concerned about this code amendment superseding the building
of second units on the property, and wondered if the state would challenge this
amendment if someone were not allowed to build a second unit on their property
because of the new requirements for the equestrian use
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that staff has discussed this with the City Attorney
noting the current laws require the City to have a non -discretionary process for second
units, which the current codes do have He explained that there is a possible new law
which will place further restrictions on the City to allow second units, however all second
units will still have to comply with the current zoning on the property. Therefore, the City
Attorney feels that because this is a developmental standard under the zoning it will not
conflict with the existing laws or the possible future law.
Chairman Mueller asked staff if a barn would be subject to the rules and regulations of a
height variation, including neighborhood compatibility
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 9
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that detached accessory structures are
allowed to be built to a height of 12 feet, and one could apply for a discretionary permit if
they wanted to exceed that 12 -foot height limit
Commissioner Tetreault discussed a scenario where a property owner is unable to
build into their backyard because they have to preserve this 800 square feet for
equestrian use, and therefore have to build up, and in so doing may impair someone's
view He asked if at this point the Planning Commission would then have the discretion
to grant a variance if the Commission felt this was a hardship and allow encroachment
into the equestrian area so that a neighbor's view is not blocked by the second story
addition.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that in those types of cases it would be the
discretion of the Planning Commission as to whether or not a variance is warranted.
Vice Chair Cote asked if staff or the Equestrian Committee had considered not applying
these restrictions to all of the properties in the equestrian district, as there appears to be
areas such as Via Campesina where there is only one property that keeps horses on
the property
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that staff and the Equestrian Committee have
always looked at treating all of the equestrian districts equally, however the Planning
Commission can make the recommendation to the City Council to exclude certain
equestrian areas from their recommendations.
Commissioner Karp moved to deny the proposed code amendment, seconded by
Chairman Mueller.
Commissioner Karp explained that he is not opposed to homeowners having horses on
their property; however, he felt this was a very badly written ordinance He felt this was
a classic example of a law of unintended consequences, noting that if 800 square feet is
required it may force property owners to build a second story in order to add on to their
homes, and the height variation may be denied because the addition would be blocking
someone's view He did not feel horse owners were losing their rights to own horses on
their property and what they were trying to do was preserve the right for possible future
owners He explained that, while technically this may not be considered inverse
condemnation, in his opinion it is condemnation He felt that there is one group of
property owners wanting to impose their wishes on someone else's property.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he appreciates the fact that there is an equestrian
district in the city and enjoys the rural atmosphere that comes with that However, he
sees this issue as a balancing of rights and interests He explained that the rights are
those of the individual homeowners in the equestrian overlay district as to what it is they
want to do with their property He felt that this proposed amendment could very
seriously restrict the property owners' present rights to do with their property what they
perhaps envisioned several years ago when they purchased it He further explained
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 10
that the interests would be perhaps of their neighbors who would like to think that in
years to come their children or others could come to this community and have a thriving
equestrian community. He stated that this has been a very difficult issue for him, as he
sees valid points on both sides of the issue He stated that after discussing the issue
with staff and the City Attorney he does not feel this is an issue of a taking or inverse
condemnation. He was concerned that there are only 200 to 300 horses presently in
the equestrian overlay districts and estimated there are only 10 percent of the available
homes that are actually using their property for the purpose of housing horses.
However the restriction would be imposed on all of the properties in the overlay district
He stated that the rejection of this ordinance would not negatively affect the rights of the
people who have horses on their property to maintain these horses on their property
However if the proposed ordinance were to pass it could have a significant impact on
residents who bought their homes some years ago and are considering expanding their
homes He concluded by stating that it is possible that another attempt can be made at
this amendment which would address his concerns, but as it is now he is opposed to
the proposed amendment.
Vice Chair Cote agreed with several of Commissioner Tetreault's comments She felt
there needed to be a closer look at the amendment with respect to the equestrian
overlay district. She stated that she has great respect for the Equestrian Committee,
however this committee is populated with members that own and have horses within the
community, and felt there needed to be a more balanced look at the amendment with
respect to what should be done with the overall issues of zoning and neighborhood
compatibility. She noted that there is another committee currently in place that is
looking at zoning related issues and this may be something that their expertise could
add to this issue for a more balanced amendment to the code
Chairman Mueller explained that his reason for seconding the motion was to initiate
some discussion on the issue He felt that this proposed amendment is trying to place
restrictions on the horse keeping properties in terms of placement of the homes and the
setback allowances. He did not want to see all of the improvements proposed in the
overlay district become height variations because property owners could not build out
on their property and felt they had to build up He explained that the Development Code
Steering Committee is currently grappling with setback requirements and lot coverage
proposals, and was unsure how this would affect the proposed code amendment. He
was not convinced that the proposed amendment, as written, was something the
Planning Commission should support, however, he felt the Planning Commission, rather
than deny the proposed amendment, could make recommendations on how to modify it
Commissioner Tetreault added that he recognizes the concerns of the equestrian
community in that they can envision a trend where the horse keeping rights are
eventually pushed entirely out of the City, and felt there should be a way to address that
concern. He did not feel, however, that the current proposed amendment correctly and
adequately addresses that concern, and that even though he supports the equestrian
community, he does not feel this is the right vehicle to address the concerns.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 11
Vice Chair Cote offered a suggestion that the City Council explore the possibility of
creating a committee that could develop some type of equestrian compatibility
guidelines that would deal with certain issues to make sure the uniqueness of the
equestrian community is preserved
Vice Chair moved to amend the motion to deny the code amendment and suggest
that the topic of creating a set of equestrian compatibility guidelines be directed
to the Residential Development Standards Committee as a special topic for them
to consider, and utilizing the Equestrian Committee as a resource as those
guidelines are developed, seconded by Commissioner Tetreault.
Commissioner Karp did not think the Planning Commission could mandate this to
another Committee and felt the proper procedure would be to deny the proposed
amendment and the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council that the
subject be referred to the Residential Development Standards Committee for their
review and input.
Vice Chair Cote modified her amendment to deny the code amendment and
suggest that the Residential Development Standards Committee take up the issue
of the equestrian overlay district, specifically Development Code suggestions to
deal with equestrian compatibility, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
The Planning Commission unanimously approved the amendment.
The amended motion was approved, (4-0) with Commissioners Knight and
Gerstner recused.
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that the Resolution to deny the proposed code
amendment would be brought to the Planning Commission for approval at their next
meeting
Commissioners Gerstner and Knight re-entered the room
2. Grading Permit / Height Variation Permit (Case No. Z0N2002-00507): 4342
Admirable Drive
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
noting that staff could make all of the necessary findings. She stated that staff was
recommending approval of the height variation and grading permit subject to the
conditions of approval presented by staff.
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they felt the proposed deck would be set back far
enough from the neighbor's window so not to create a privacy issue for the neighbor
Assistant Planner Yu stated that staff felt the view from the proposed deck would not
look directly into the neighbor's backyard.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 12
Commissioner Knight asked staff what generated the need for a height variation for this
project, as the ridgeline of the home will be below 16 feet in height.
Assistant Planner Yu explained that the Development Code allows buildings in the City
to be 16 feet in height measured from the existing highest elevation of the existing
building pad and 20 feet as measured from the point where the lowest foundation meets
finished grade. She noted that this residence will measure 20 2 feet as measured from
the point where the lowest foundation meets finished grade, and therefore subject to a
height variation application
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they were using the benchmark of 100, as shown on
the plans, to take their measurements from
Assistant Planner Yu answered that was correct.
Commissioner Knight noted that the garage will be slighted elevated above the house
and asked if the backyard will step down to a flush pad or will it also be slightly elevated
Assistant Planner Yu noted that the plans indicate the backyard will sit level with the
house pad elevation
Commissioner Knight asked if this property is in the landslide moratorium area.
Assistant Planner Yu answered that the property is in the moratorium area and the
applicant did apply for and receive a Moratorium Exception Permit.
Chairman Mueller asked staff to clarify a statement on page 6 of the staff report where
staff states the cupola will be below the horizon line as viewed from the viewing area of
properties located on Exultant Drive He felt this statement was misleading, as it
indicated to him that no sky view would be blocked, however being below the horizon
line, some ocean view may be blocked.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff used the horizon line to gage where the
ocean is, and the extension of the building is substantially below the horizon line,
therefore blocking very little ocean view.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Pete Minch 4342 Admirable Drive (applicant) stated that he submitted a supplemental
letter which briefly discusses the four year development which has led up to the current
plans submitted to the Planning Commission. He stated his primary concern has been
to submit a proposal that does not impinge on the rights, especially the view corridors,
of his neighbors He felt that the current plans are a result of the hard work of his
architect, detailed input from staff, and the fact that his lot is a sloping lot that allows him
to grade down to the curb level. He explained that the result is that there will be an
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 13
increased setback on both sides of his adjoining neighbors is increased and the roof
ridgeline on the southwest side will be slightly lowered in height which will increase the
ocean view of the neighbors on Exultant Drive He also stated that he has discussed
the privacy issue with his neighbor and reported that an amicable resolution has been
reached with window deletion, the increased setback on the side of the house, the
opaque window, and the placement on the balcony. Further, both he and his neighbor
are in agreement that they want to plant foliage to help shield the upper story He
stated that he was respectfully requesting the Planning Commission follow staffs
recommendations and approve the proposed project
Russ Barb 3 Malaga Cove Plaza, PVE stated he is the architect for the project. He felt
that this design is a win-win design as it not only does not impinge on the views of
neighbors but also improves many of the neighbor's views. He stated that
Commissioner Knight had expressed concern regarding the slope of the roof and the
use of the tile roofing material, and explained that a the roof can be installed on a roof
with a pitch of less than 3 12 He also stated that Edison has reviewed the plans and
given their approval in terms of the existing utility lines.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Vice Chair Cote felt the applicant has done an outstanding job in working with his
neighbors and addressing all appropriate City codes, and can support the staff
recommendations.
Chairman Mueller wanted to make sure that any modifications discussed by the owner
are included on the pl4ns and captured in the Resolution.
Assistant Planner Yu stated that the plans are correct and the Resolution does reflect all
of the changes.
Commissioner Knight agreed with Vice Chair Cote's comments, however he still had a
problem with the architectural style, as he did not feel the spanish style roof and turret
match the ranch style' homes in the neighborhood
Vice Chair Cote moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-37 thereby approving
the Grading Permit and Height Variation as presented by staff, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (6-0)
3. Minutes of August 10, 2004
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Gerstner. Approved, (5-0-1) with Vice Chair Cote abstaining since
she was absent from that meeting.
4. Minutes of August 24, 2004
Planning Commission Minutes
September 28, 2004
Page 14
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-0)
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00285): 28631 Quailhill Drive
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project He stated that staff could make all of the necessary findings and therefore
recommends approval of the Height Variation
Commissioner Knight asked what the setback is from the new addition to the rear yard
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that the setback is approximately 30 feet
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Dave Klashman 28631 Quailhill Drive (applicant) stated he is available for questions
There being no questions, Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No 2004-38 thereby
approving the Height Variation as presented by staff, seconded by Vice Chair
Cote. Approved, (6-0)
6. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00270): 2043 Beecham Drive
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
the need for the height variation. She noted that this application is a revised project
from a previous application that was reviewed by the Planning Commission She stated
that the Planning Commission found in its previous review of the application that the
proposed project was not compatible with the immediate neighborhood due to the bulk
and mass of the structure She explained that the applicant has redesigned the first
story addition and lowered and set back the entry feature. Based on the changes staff
is of the opinion that the proposed structures bulk and mass will be more in keeping with
the bulk and mass of the homes in the immediate neighborhood, will not significantly
impair a view from the viewing area of another parcel, and will not result in an
unreasonable infringement of privacy from abutting residences Therefore, staff was
recommending approval of the proposed height variation.
Commissioner Knight asked if the neighbors have had a chance to view the revised
plans.
Assistant Planner Yu suggested that the Planning Commission ask the applicant that
question, however she noted that staff had not received any comments from the
neighbors regarding the project.
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September 28, 2004
Page 15
Chairman Mueller asked staff for clarification on how the entry had been revised.
Assistant Planner Yu displayed a picture of the original plan and the revised plan and
pointed out the revisions on the new plan.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Knsti Skelton 24 Buckskin Lane, RHE (architect) stated that she and the owner have
made a concerted effort to work with staff to address the concerns of the Planning
Commission. She felt that she the revised plan has addressed those concerns and
stated she was available for any questions.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he had a concern regarding the east wall on the
original plan, as it looks very imposing and is considerably higher than the home next to
it He did not feel this was in character with the neighborhood and asked the architect
to comment on why the current proposal has the same characteristics.
Ms Skelton answered that the new plan has more articulation added to this wall, noting
that the neighbor on the east supports the project She also felt that this wall is
consistent with other homes in the neighborhood
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight again expressed his feeling that the architectural style is not
consistent with the neighborhood, especially the turret feature He felt, however, that
the original concerns expressed by the Planning Commission have been met
Commissioner Tetreault expressed his concerns with the east wall, and even though the
neighbor does not seem to mind the wall. He felt that the wall appeared to be very high
and looming five feet from the property line.
Commissioner Karp moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2004-39 thereby approving
the height variation as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
It being after 11:00 p.m. Chairman Mueller suggested the Planning Commission
suspend their discussion of this item to discuss whether or not to hear new items after
11 00, as per the Planning Commission rules.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested suspending the rules and not take new business
after 11.30 and continue with the item at hand The Commission unanimously agreed
Chairman Mueller reviewed the plans specifically regarding the east wall, noting that he
somewhat shared Commissioner Tetreault's concerns and asked Commissioner
Tetreault if he had any suggestions on how to modify the wall.
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September 28, 2004
Page 16
Commissioner Tetreault felt it would be helpful to have the second floor on the east wall
step back three feet so that there will not be the sheer wall coming straight up and not
be as imposing to the neighbors
Chairman Mueller asked if the home to the east is a single story or two-story home.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that the house to the east is a single story home at a
lower elevation than the subject house.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that the front elevation is now pushed back farther and
asked staff if the flat facade on the east is now shorter
Assistant Planner Yu answered that was correct, that the east facade is now shorter by
approximately five feet
The motion to adopt P.C. Resolution 2004-39 as presented was approved, (5-1)
with Commissioner Tetreault dissenting
7. Revision to Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00366): 6512
Nancy Road
Director/Secretary Rojas suggested that if the Planning Commission is considering
continuing the item, as it is after 11:00, the Chairman should open the public hearing to
ask the applicant if they are willing to grant a 90 -day extension to staff
Commissioner Karp asked staff, if the item is continued, will it be on the agenda for the
next Planning Commission meeting
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that if the Planning Commission decides to continue
the item to the next meeting, it will be the second item on the agenda
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Leslie Tillman 6512 Nancy Road stated that she is the architect and resident of the
property She explained that her mother cannot move into the house until she is able to
build an elevator, and felt that granting a 90 -day extension was too long
Chairman Mueller asked Ms. Tillman if she would be willing to grant the City a 90 -day
extension, noting that without that extension the Planning Commission must hear the
item at this meeting
Ms. Tillman was concerned that if she grants the extension the item still may not be
heard at the next hearing
Chairman Mueller stated that the Planning Commission cannot guarantee that the item
will be heard at the next meeting, however it will be on the agenda for the next meeting.
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September 28, 2004
Page 17
He noted that the Planning Commission has no control over how long any item before
this one will take and cannot guarantee the item will be heard.
Ms. Tillman stated that she will grant the 90 -day extension with the guarantee that the
item will be on the next agenda.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the public hearing to the October 12,
2004 Planning Commission, seconded by Commissioner Karp. Approved, (6-0)
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
8. Minutes of September 14, 2004
Continued to October 12, 2004
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
9. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of October 12, 2004
The agenda was reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:35 p.m.
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September 28, 2004
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