PC MINS 20040727CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 27, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
August 10,2004
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mueller at 7 00 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Vice Chair Cote led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Karp, Knight, Tetreault, Vice Chair Cote, and
Chairman Mueller
Absent: Commissioner Van Wagner was excused
Also present were Deputy Director Pfost, Associate Planner Blumenthal, Assistant
Planner Yu, Project Coordinator Nelson, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Karp moved to move Item No. 1 to the end of the Agenda,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
Chairman Mueller noted that the Planning Commissioners were welcome to comment
on the Agenda, however he felt it was the prerogative of the Chairman to set the
agenda with input from the Commissioners He noted that this item has been continued
twice and he wanted to get through the item at tonight's meeting, as it will most likely
have to come back to the Planning Commission with the suggested revisions
Commissioner Karp noted that there are three items on the agenda which may require a
fairly lengthy discussion and there are people in the audience who may want to speak
on these items He did not feel the people in the audience should have to sit and wait
while the Planning Commission has their discussion on the View Restoration
Guidelines
Project Coordinator Nelson felt that the review of the Guidelines should not take too
long, as the Planning Commission should be giving staff direction to either come back
after the Commissioners have had a chance to review the changes and provide more
substantive comments
Commissioner Gerstner felt that if staff was giving a presentation on Item No. 1 and the
discussion was brief he would like to see it done, however he noted there were several
people in the audience waiting and he would rather deal with the business of the
residents first.
Vice Chair Cote stated that based on the staff member's comments she felt the
Planning Commission could move through Item No 1 quickly and was optimistic that
the members in the audience would not have to wait too long
The motion to change the order of the Agenda failed, (3-3) with Commissioner
Tetreault, Vice Chair Cote, and Chairman Mueller dissenting.
COMMUNICATIONS
Deputy Director Pfost reported that two items of correspondence regarding Agenda Item
No. 4 had been distributed to the Planning Commission
Commissioner Knight reported that he had received a phone call and e-mail from
Sunshine regarding Agenda Item No 4
Commissioner Karp suggested staff look into the idea of e -mailing to the Planning
Commissioners any late correspondence, rather than waiting to distribute it at the
meeting
Deputy Director Pfost stated that he would check with the Director.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1 Review of the City's View Restoration Guidelines
Project Coordinator Nelson presented the staff report explaining that Chairman Mueller
had requested the Planning Commissioner review the View Restoration Guidelines to
see if there were any minor modifications that may be added to the Guidelines to help
streamline the process She gave a brief history of the Guidelines and the modifications
that have been made over the years, stating that staff felt the current Guidelines were
working quite well. She stated that staff was recommending any modifications made to
the Guidelines remain minor at this time.
Commissioner Karp stated that the Planning Commission has taken the position that the
City does not enforce private contracts, however there is a section in the Guidelines that
states that if work is not done the City will fine them, noting that this is a private contract
between the foliage owner and the applicant He also commented that there was no
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 2
reason to send items registered mail and felt that certified mall is sufficient He
suggested items be sent by FAX, keeping the transmittal report.
Project Coordinator Nelson noted that there is nothing in the Guidelines that discusses
private agreements, and the fines and penalties discussed have to do with existing
restoration and preservation cases
Vice Chair Cote noted that there was a section in the Guidelines where it is clear the
City is encouraging residents to enter into private agreements and even states that staff
will assist in the preparation of the private agreement and offers a sample of a private
agreement She wondered if these types of statements should be made when at the
same time the City does not want to get involved in private agreements.
Project Coordinator Nelson agreed, however she noted that the City Council has given
staff direction to facilitate the private agreements, as residents have not been able to
formulate these private agreements on their own She noted however, that even if staff
does assist in drafting the private agreement, the agreement is not something the City
will enforce.
Chairman Mueller felt there could be some type of disclaimer statement that could be
added to the language and suggested staff research that with the City Attorney
Commissioner Knight asked staff to clarify "evidence" as referred to in the Guidelines.
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that "evidence" could mean several things and
would be considered on a case-by-case basis, explaining it could be input from the City
Geologist or City Arborist
Commissioner Knight asked if staffs opinion could be considered as evidence
Project Coordinator Nelson answered that in the past staff has relied on the technical
information from the technical people and past experience from these people as
evidence
Commissioner Knight discussed insurance and felt the Guidelines were unclear in this
area, as he did not know if the insurance provided by the contractor had to be
acceptable to the foliage owner as well as the City
Project Coordinator Nelson explained the City verifies that the contractor has insurance
that will cover the City and the foliage owner's property
Commissioner Karp felt the contractor's insurance policy should name the foliage owner
as additional insured on their liability and worker's compensation insurance, noting that
it will not cost the contractor any additional money to add that language to their
insurance
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 3
Commissioner Knight stated that there is a definition of "viewing area" in the Guidelines
which states that setback areas are excluded from viewing areas. He felt there were a
lot of situations where, because of the arrangement of the backyard where there is a
pool, the gathering area may actually be in the setback area, and the way the
Guidelines are written there would be no way to address that
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that in order to consider views from the setback
area the definition of viewing area would have to be changed. She stated that if there
were privacy issues the Planning Commission has the latitude to provide foliage if the
finding can be made that privacy is an issue from the viewing area. She noted that
greater weight is given to outdoor privacy versus indoor privacy She cautioned that the
Guidelines have to be reasonable and not prevent anybody from walking on any piece
of property and not see into anyone's backyard. She further explained that the staff
report is staff's report as a technical arm to the Planning Commission of what staff
believes is going on in the field, and the Planning Commission can discuss and make
decisions based on what their perceptions are.
Vice Chair Cote asked staff, since there is no longer a View Restoration Commission
and the Planning Commission is now hearing these cases, to try to have the
administrative procedures as aligned to the Planning Commission administrative
procedures as possible. She also felt the Guidelines could be clearer regarding
reference points on trir"nming
Project Coordinator Nelson stated that defining a reference point in the Guidelines was
difficult and may be clarified better in the staff reports
Vice Chair Cote stated that she does not recommend changing the definition of a
viewing area in the Guidelines, as this would have to go forward to the City Council for
approval. She agreed that there is a lot of latitude in working with privacy issues and
foliage
Chairman Mueller discussed the replacement foliage and felt that over the years the
latitude on the replacement has grown. He stated that he does not have problems
providing replacement foliage, however he did not know how to trace the replacement
foliage back to the Ordinance or Prop M He understood replacement foliage for
reasons of public health and safety, privacy, and shade, however he noted other
instances on page 20 of the Guidelines that he did know how to reference back to the
Ordinance or Prop M.
Project Coordinator Nelson answered that prior to the 1998 revision to the Guidelines
the Commission was limited in when they could provide replacement foliage in
situations where there were only privacy findings She did not think there was anything
directly in Prop M and the additional discussion was to broaden the scope, and what
was added to the Guidelines was in keeping with the intent of the Ordinance
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July 27, 2004
Page 4
Chairman Mueller stated that if there is nothing in the Guidelines or in Prop M that
mentions these types of instances for replacement foliage, specifically d, e, and f on
page 20 and he was hesitant to have them in the Guidelines.
Commissioner Knight felt there were certain situations regarding (e) on page 20 where
somebody has a landscaping plan where plants do need shade, and he would not like
to be implementing a policy where shade plants could not be planted on a property
Commissioner Tetreault understood the Chairman's intent, however he felt there were
instances where residents planted their landscaping years before Prop M came about
and if there is some modification to the replacement foliage requirements, there should
also be some sort of grandfathering clause included
Commissioner Knight noted that the Guidelines state that the Planning Commission
"may" order replacement foliage, and that replacement foliage is not mandatory.
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that the language only provides greater latitude to
the Planning Commission to provide for replacement foliage if they felt the replacement
foliage was necessary
Chairman Mueller stated that (d), which addresses replacement foliage for energy
efficiency of the home, was something that did not belong in these guidelines because it
can be provided by other means. He felt that the person who directly benefits from the
energy efficiency of the shade is the foliage owner and therefore the foliage owner
should bear the cost of replacement foliage for that particular condition. He did not think
it was the view owner's responsibility to provide shade to the foliage owner's home.
Commissioner Knight disagreed, stating that in a situation where, when restoring a
view, a major shade tree has been removed, there may be a direct impact on the
comfort of the home as well as a financial impact if the foliage owner has to then invest
in an air conditioner.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that the items in the Guidelines are there to provide
discretion to the Planning Commission when determining when replacement foliage can
be ordered Therefore, he would like to have as much discretion as possible when
determining whether or not replacement foliage should be given
Chairman Mueller felt the Guidelines should be in line with Prop M and the Ordinance,
otherwise there may be situations where residents can say the City is not enforcing
what is in the Ordinance
Vice Chair Cote moved that staff consider the various Commissioners' input and
incorporate the appropriate changes into the Guidelines and continue the item to
a future meeting, seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (6-0)
2 Neighborhood Compatibility Code Amendment
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 5
Deputy Director Pfost presented a brief staff report explaining that staff and the City
Attorney have not been able to work out all of the necessary issues on the
Neighborhood Compatibility Code Amendment, and therefore staff was requesting a
continuance of the item to the meeting of August 10th
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the item to August 10, 2004, seconded
by Commissioner Tetreault. (6-0)
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Height Variation Permit/Grading Permit (Case No ZON2002-00507) 4342
Admirable Drive
Deputy Director Pfost presented a brief staff report, explaining that staff has identified
some concerns to the applicant, and based upon those concerns the applicant has
decided to look at redesigning the project, and has therefore requested a continuance to
the August 10th meeting.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to August 10, 2004,
seconded by Vice Chair Cote. Continued, (6-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:25 p m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8:35 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (cont)
4 Appeal of Site Plan Review (Case ZON2003-00280): 5 Rockinghorse Road
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report, explaining the proposed project and the
reason for the appeal. She explained that staff reviewed the basis of the appeal and
determined that the basis of the appeal is a civil matter between the two parties. Staff
felt that the fence is an existing improvement on the easement and the fence could have
existed prior to City incorporation, thus qualifying the fence for a non -conforming status.
Furthermore, staff is of the opinion that the applicant has taken steps to address the
appellants concerns, since portions of the fence have been removed and has removed
a proposed 6 -inch curb from the plan. Therefore, staff is recommending the Planning
Commission deny the appeal and uphold the Director's decision to approve the project.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if there is anything new being proposed to be
constructed in the easement
Assistant Planner Yu answered there is nothing being proposed to be constructed in the
easement, other than the driveway approach.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 6
Commissioner Knight stated that there is still a fence at the property that has not been
removed, and asked if it was going to be removed.
Assistant Planner Yu showed photographs of the property, showing what fences have
been removed and that the fence under the ivy that has not yet been removed.
Commissioner Knight stated that he had an opportunity to review the Conceptual Trails
Plan as well as the Administrative Procedures for Trail Implementation and wanted to
make sure the Planning Commission was appropriately addressing the issue He asked
staff why he did not see an analysis in the staff report regarding the easement and the
implementation of trails.
Assistant Planner Yu stated that at this time there is an easement on the property,
however not for trails but for utility purposes She stated that it has been the City
Attorney's opinion in previous applications that there is not a nexus to require the
applicant to provide a trail easement as part of an application.
Deputy Director Pfost explained that he agrees with the statement that in order for a trail
to become a usable trail it must first be implemented, however it is a question of how
the trail is implemented and whether or not, in this particular case, there is a nexus
between the proposed addition and requiring a separate trail easement. He stated that
it is staff's opinion that there is not a nexus in relationship to the addition of the project
to require the owner to make those improvements to the trail or provide a separate trail
easement
Commissioner Knight stated that his concern was that he would have liked to have seen
this explanation in the staff report or some analysis that he could have read before the
meeting, and asked that this type of analysis be include in future staff reports when
necessary
Deputy Director Pfost agreed to include such an analysis in future staff reports when
trail issues are involved.
Vice Chair Cote asked if this particular case had been reviewed by the City Attorney to
establish whether there was a nexus with this particular application in regards to
establishing an easement for a trail
Deputy Director Pfost clarified that this particular case was not reviewed by the City
Attorney, however there have been other cases where the City Attorney has reviewed
additions where there have been trail areas and whether or not to request an easement,
based upon the addition to the house, and it has been the City Attorney's opinion that
there is not a nexus related to that.
Commissioner Gerstner discussed the fence and questioned why, on such a large
addition to the house, staff was not taking the opportunity to make all non -conforming
items on the property conforming.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 7
Deputy Director Pfost stated that because there is no work being done to the fence the
Code does not allow the City to require the fence be brought up to conformance, only
those areas of the property that are being improved
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the issue was that the existing fence under the ivy be
removed or is there more to it than that, such as improvements to allow better use by
non -automobiles
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the appellant would have to answer that question,
but felt that the appellant wanted the fence removed and additional improvements
made.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if these improvements were done would it then create an
almost island affect and it would not be contiguous with improvements on other property
easements.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that was correct
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the Planning Commission now has the ability to review
the entire project, or if the review is confined to the appellant's issues
Assistant Planner Yu answered that the Planning Commission may review the entire
project.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Sunshine read a prepared statement from the appellant Rose Marie Di Santo, 13
Cayuse Lane, who was not able to attend the meeting Ms Di Santo felt there were at
least three reasons the Director should not have approved the Site Plan Review 1) The
existing fence, built after 1984, is 48 inches high and is not in compliance with the
Rancho Palos Verdes Municipal Code, and is in the front setback area She did not feel
staff should have accepted the application without it including a request to bang the site
into compliance 2) The documents submitted with the application are not clearly
complete and do not provide full dimensions as required by the Development Code. 3)
The site visit should have noted the wall and the ivy that has grown over the fence
which is not accurately depicted on the plans. She noted that the Development Code
specifically calls for reduced heights for fences, wall, and hedges when they are
adjacent to streets She felt that staff should be following the codes in such a way that
the purpose of the codes are upheld and enhanced She noted that General Plan
Amendment No 22 says that trails should be improved in relation to property
improvement She did not think staff should have accepted the application and by
approving the application the Director has allowed the applicant to perpetuate damage
to the easement holders interest in real property. She felt approval of the project should
be conditioned upon the applicant clearing and keeping clear the unpaved area of the
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 8
road easement by removing all fences, vegetation, and anything else that interferes with
the passage over this area
Chairman Mueller asked if Ms Di Santo mentioned anything about the size of the
project or the compatibility of the project in her written statement, and asked if the basis
of the appeal was about the easements and the trails
Sunshine answered that she did not recall Ms. Di Santo having issue of the size of the
house or compatibility, but rather the easement and trail issues. She stated that the
deed restriction that created the roadway easement is not just a private agreement.
She felt that in pursuit of the City's goals of preserving an open appearance and non -
motorized vehicle circulation, staff should have been searching for a way to encourage
the applicant to remove the obstructions in what, except for a technicality, is a roadway
frontage
Robert Castelao 5 Rockinghorse Road (applicant) stated that he has removed the fence
and has met with Sunshine at the property several times He stated that he does not
want to remove the remaining fence and ivy just yet, as he is worried about erosion
control during the construction phase, however he has indicated that he will remove the
fence and ivy during the landscaping phase of the project. He suggested making it a
condition of approval on the building permit that he not receive a final until the fence and
ivy are removed. He referred to the deed for his property, and noted that the deeds
refer to easements for utility purposes only and there is nothing referring to easements
for trails He stated that he has removed the curb from his plan and has agreed to take
the fence and ivy down, and therefore there should be no basis for the appeal
Commissioner Knight tasked Mr. Castelao if staff had ever advised him of the Bronco
Loop Trail along his property and that there is a conceptual trails plan and a trail along
the street i
1
Mr Castelao answered that staff had mentioned there was a conceptual trails plan,
however it is conceptual
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr Castelao to clarify his position on what he is willing to do in
regards to the fence
Mr. Castelao explained that he has already removed part of the fence, he is willing to
take down the remainder of the fence and ivy prior to the final of the construction of his
addition at the landscaping plan. He stated that he has already removed the proposed
curb off of the plan and he is willing to maintain his landscaping out of the easement
area
Commissioner Karp asked staff if they felt that if the applicant has done everything that
needs to be done according to the City codes.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that was correct
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 9
Sunshine (in rebuttal) stated that the concern was that implementing a trail is a one
property at a time issue, so that as each opportunity arises a little piece of the trail is
implemented, and that eventually there is a trails network. She felt that this was an
opportunity for staff to do that She felt that the idea is keep the roadway easement
useable and to leave the affect of having an open front yard
Commissioner Tetreault noted that the Conceptual Trails Plan is being implemented
parcel by parcel, and asked Sunshine if she felt that there have been substantial links of
the trails being created parcel by parcel as people are remodeling their homes
Sunshine answered that this is part of the problem, as it has not been implemented very
well in Rancho Palos Verdes She explained that creating a trail is a long-term goal,
and in some instances it can take 20 years or more to get all of the easements
necessary to build the trail
Commissioner Gerstner asked Mr. Castelao if he knew who the other co -holders of the
easement are, and if they are the other property owners on the private road.
Mr Castaleo answered that the deed clearly states and is recorded that he is the owner
of 147 feet along the roadway area.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp stated that there was currently a 30 -foot easement in front of the
property and asked staff if that was sufficient for a trail to be constructed
Deputy Director Pfost answered that you can run a trail along a 30 -foot easement,
however he thought that what the appellant is arguing is that the 30 -foot easement area
is not the paved width.
Commissioner Knight noted that this is a pnvate easement the City cannot go in and
build a trail without all of the necessary easements being granted and one way to
accomplish that would be to implement the trails plan and have a dedicated easement
for a trail.
Chairman Mueller asked if the Planning Commission has any authority to impose an
easement on this project on a private street to do what the appellant is asking for
Deputy Director Pfost answered that staff did not think the Planning Commission had
that authority, and would recommend against that
Chairman Mueller asked staff if the City has ever taken the approach with individual
properties to establish a trail easement.
Deputy Director Pfost stated that he was familiar with instances with Parcel Maps where
a parcel has been subdivided and dedicated a trail and to his recollection there has not
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 10
been an instance where a remodel or addition where a trail easement has been
imposed
Commissioner Karp felt that this was a private issue between the applicant and
appellant He noted that the applicant has agreed to remove the fence, remove the
boulders, and the vegetation and he felt that the applicant has met all of the reasonable
criteria necessary and that he agreed with the staff recommendation to deny the appeal
Vice Chair Cote asked staff, if a condition were added to the approval that the fence and
ivy be removed, when would an appropriate time for that removal be
Deputy Director Pfost felt that, because of the applicant's willingness to remove the
fence and ivy, it would be reasonable to condition the approval that the fence and ivy be
removed prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupancy.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that the Resolution in the staff report makes certain
findings for the project that the Planning Commission did not analyze, such as findings
for neighborhood compatibility and privacy He was concerned that the Resolution was
broader than the Planning Commission's ability to make the specific findings
Commissioner Karp did not feel it was necessary to go back and review the entire
process, as there are only two or three items of concern, and the Planning Commission
should focus in on those concerns He noted that the applicant has agreed to remove
the fence and the ivy and that the Planning Commission can request an irrevocable
offer to grant an easement for a horse trail.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that this is a private road and a private easement and
the City cannot take or use the easement without the approval of the easement holders.
Further structures cannot be built in the easement area without the approval of the
easement owners, however the existing structure is non -conforming. Therefore, he felt
that the Planning Commission should ask the property owner to remove the non-
conforming fence and he should do so at the appropriate time If the City wants to
implement the conceptual trails plan, the City should go to the individual property
owners through which the trails plan passes, and request that they grant easements
He did not feel it was right to hold a property owner hostage when they wanted to do
construction on their residence and demand the property owner grant the easements
Commissioner Knight stated that since the existing fence was legal non -conforming it
could not be required to be removed, but if staff felt that it could be removed that it was
appropriate to ask it be removed at the appropriate time during construction. Regarding
the Conceptual Trails Plan, he felt that there was a procedure in place to implement a
trail through a dedicated easement He noted that staff does not feel there is a nexus
between the proposed construction and requiring the dedication of the easement He
questioned how the nexus would be made in future applications
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 11
Vice Chair Cote felt there was a strong and valid reason for the appeal, specifically the
arguments with respect to the non -conforming fence She was pleased that the
applicant has agreed to the removal of the fence and vegetation. She stated that she
has always been a very strong advocate of the implementation of the Conceptual Trails
Plan whenever there is the latitude to do so She felt in this situation it was a little more
difficult, as applicant lives on a private road She stated that without an offer by the
applicant to dedicate the easement she felt it would be difficult to create a condition of
approval in this instance.
Chairman Mueller agreed that the Planning Commission could make the removal of the
fence and ivy a condition of approval of the project. He noted, however, that this is a
pnvate road and he did not think there was a mechanism to Impose such a condition
He did not see a nexus between this development and trying to procure an easement
on a private street for a trails plan
Commissioner Tetreault was not convinced that the City has the authority to require the
applicant to remove a non -conforming fence However, because the applicant has
stated that he is willing to remove the fence he felt that a condition of approval could be
added regarding the removal of the fence at the appropriate time
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-30, denying the
appeal and upholding the Director's approval, with the added condition that the
applicant shall, prior to receiving a certificate of occupancy, remove the fence
and ivy in the front yard easement, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
Commissioner Tetreault stated that he had difficulty making the findings in the
Resolution that the proposed addition is compatible with the neighborhood, specifically
because the addition was not flagged or had a silhouette erected when he was at the
property.
Commissioner Knight agreed, noting that the Resolution is signed by the Planning
Commission as if they agree with the neighborhood compatibility finding Further, in
reference to the Conceptual Trails Plan, he was unclear how their decision would be
relative to the General Plan Amendment No 2 and if it was in compliance or non-
compliance with administrative procedures for trail implementation.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if it was required that the Planning Commission make a
full review of the entire project on appeal rather than the issues on appeal. He asked if
the Planning Commission could deny the appeal and add a condition to the approval
without making any other findings on the project, as the Director has already made
these findings for his approval.
Deputy Director Pfost stated that it was his understanding that the Planning
Commission would be upholding the Director's decision and those findings that made
that decision when denying an appeal
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 12
The motion to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-30 as amended was approved, (4-2)
with Commissioners Knight and Tetreault dissenting.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 10 30 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 10:40 p.m. at which
time they reconvened.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (cont)
5. Height Variation Permit (Case No ZON2004-00164) 5416 Littlebow Road
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report explaining that it was recently
discovered that a portion of the addition on the first floor is encroaching into the setback
and staff is therefore requesting a continuance of the public hearing to August 24, 2004
to allow the applicant to apply for a Minor Exception Permit to allow the encroachment
Vice Chair Cote moved to continue the public hearing to August 24, 2004,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner. Continued, (6-0)
6 Height Variation Permit (Case No 2003-00559). 44 Headland Drive
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the history of the
project and the scope of the request He stated that staff has reviewed the height
variation findings with respect to the revision request, and could make all of the findings
in a positive manner and was recommending the Planning Commission approve the
requested Height Variation Permit application, subject to the recommended conditions
of approval
Commissioner Knight asked staff if the applicant has changed the railing on the existing
deck from wrought iron to glass.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that on the latest set of plans it does appear
that the railing material has changed
Commissioner Knight asked if the outdoor kitchen shown on the plans was on the
original plans and if it required approvals and permits
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that the outdoor kitchen detail should have been
omitted from the plans Since this area does not constitute lot coverage the applicant
can receive staff approval through a Site Plan Review application
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
David Berman 44 Headland Drive (applicant) stated that the deck is proposing will have
no affect on his neighbors' views and will cause no change in the structure of the house
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 13
already approved by the Planning Commission both in terms of the footprint and the
elevation, as he is asking for a different use in a particular area He stated that he
changed the railing on the balcony from a wooden type railing to a plexiglass type railing
to take further advantage of the view from that area. He felt that the proposed deck will
significantly enhance his property with no significant impact on his neighbors and
requested Planning Commission approval
Commissioner Knight asked Mr Berman if he brought this revision to the Planning
Commission because of the change in Code regarding roof decks
Mr Berman answered that was correct.
Madhu Berman 44 Headland Drive stated that this proposed outdoor deck will offer her
family a place to be outside where there are no insects present and they can enjoy the
evenings
Virginia DeBritz 32 Headland Drive stated that the Bermans are building a new home
which she feels will enhance the neighborhood, however construction of the proposed
roof deck will very much impact her privacy. She noted that it appears that the Bermans
have always intended to build this deck, as there is already a door in place that leads
out to the area and re -bar at the deck area that will be used for the deck. She explained
that her residence is behind the Bermans and the deck will look directly into her yard.
She added that the Bermans have removed all of the trees on their property, which
further adds to her loss of privacy. She explained the Bermans did not have a view
prior to construction olthe new home and his new view will be through all of the
neighbors' yards.
Commissioner Knight Osked Ms DeBntz if she testified at the Planning Commission
meeting when the original application was before them.
Ms DeBritz answered ;that she did not, as the plans proposed to her did not include the
large roof deck. She also explained that after viewing the original plans she thought the
proposed house was going to be a single story residence with a small loft above, noting
that it is actually a very Targe room on the second story.
Chairman Mueller asked Ms. DeBritz if her main concern with the proposed roof deck
was her privacy.
Ms. DeBritz answered that was correct
Chairman Mueller explained that for the Planning Commission to make a finding
regarding privacy, the proposed roof deck would have to be over 16 feet in height for
that finding to apply
Commissioner Knight asked Ms DeBritz if Mr Berman were to restore some foliage to
the property, if that would reduce some of her privacy concerns
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 14
Ms DeBritz answered that help with her privacy concerns
Chairman Mueller asked Ms DeBritz if it were possible for her to plant some foliage on
her property that would alleviate some privacy concerns
Ms. DeBritz answered that she could also plant foliage on her property, noting that
would take some of Mr Berman's view away.
Charlene O'Neil 38 Headland Drive stated that she was opposed to the proposed roof
deck as the deck will look over her entrance, the horse area, and her home She also
noted that the birch trees on her property lose their leaves in the fall and so much more
of her privacy is exposed She stated that decks of this type are common in the beach
communities, but not in this neighborhood She stated that when she reviewed the
original plans for the home the second story was described as a small loft and balcony,
noting that the small loft is actually a large family room She stated that she has spent a
great deal of money and time relandscaping her property near the Berman residence as
all of the trees were cut down prior to construction She stated that the proposed deck
would loom over her property and greatly infringe on her privacy.
Commissioner Knight noted that there is currently a clear door on the Berman's second
story that looks onto her property, and asked if she objects to the door.
Ms O'Neil felt that the clear door was put there to access the roof deck area that the
Bermans were hoping to have approved, noting that there would be no other reason to
put a door at that location
Vice Chair Cote asked if there had been any discussion as whether the Bermans would
be removing their trees and what type of landscaping they would be planting after the
house was completed.
Ms O'Neil stated that she still does not know what type of landscaping will be planted
on the Berman property.
Mr. Berman (in rebuttal) stated that he would have preferred that if his neighbors had
concerns regarding the roof deck that they had talked to him so that they could have
worked out some compromises He stated that the he will be looking from his roof deck
down onto his large yard, his pool, a beautiful view, a portion of Ms O'Neil's horse
stables, and a portion of Ms DeBritz's driveway Regarding the existing door, he stated
that the door was installed to allow access to the roof area to clean the skylights,
however he had always hoped that he would be allowed to construct a roof deck He
stated that the trees he cut were on his property and as far as he is aware, there is no
ordinance preventing him from cutting trees on his own property. He felt that the Ms
DeBritz and Ms O'Neil could plant trees on their property to alleviate any pnvacy issues
they may have.
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July 27, 2004
Page 15
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr. Berman what type of landscaping he would be planting on
his property.
Mr Berman explained that he will planting a six-foot high hedge along the property line
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight asked staff to clarify how high the proposed roof deck would be
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the roof deck, from the adjacent grade to
the top of the rail, would be 14 feet.
Commissioner Knight asked if this roof deck would, at any point, become a viewing area
as defined in the View Restoration Guidelines.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the View Restoration Guidelines state that
views will be taken from the first floor level
Vice Chair Cote asked staff why the finding for privacy was not applicable in this case.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that in the recent revisions to the Height
Variation findings the City Council specifically was looking for anything that extends
above the 16 -foot by right height limit He stated that maximum height of the roof deck,
including the railings, was 14 feet, and therefore staff felt the finding was not applicable
Vice Chair Cote asked staff, even with the new input from the neighbors regarding
privacy, the finding was therefore not applicable because the deck will be under 16 feet
in height.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that was correct, and further clarified that even
if this finding was applicable, it is staffs opinion that this would not be a significant
privacy impairment because currently when someone is standing in the Berman's rear
yard they are looking directly into the neighbors' yards, and therefore the roof deck
would not be creating a new infringement on privacy.
Commissioner Tetreault was disappointed that the information from the neighbors
regarding their concerns over view impacts was not given to the Planning Commission
at an earlier time. He stated that he was at the property, but not knowing that there
were neighbor concerns, he did not visit their properties He felt that because privacy
issues do not come into play because the structure is below 16 feet, then the Planning
Commission should not consider the privacy issues in making their decision
Commissioner Knight asked staff if their privacy analysis and findings would have been
the same if the vegetation still existed on the Berman's property when they did the
analysis
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July 27, 2004
Page 16
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that staffs recollection of the trees was that they
were tall enough that from the proposed roof deck one would not be able to look into the
neighboring property, therefore the privacy analysis would not have changed.
Commissioner Knight stated that he still has an issue with privacy, as the conditions
have changed since the original approval in terms of the foliage. He understood that
the roof deck is under 16 feet in height, however he stated that it is a roof deck that
creates a vantage point that is close to, if not equal to, a second story.
Commissioner Karp stated that the information and pictures submitted by the neighbors
was not done in a timely manner and did not give the Planning Commissioners enough
time to consider and review the information. Therefore, he was not going to consider
their information and his vote will be based on his site visit and the staff report. He felt
that everyone was given due notice regarding this project and he did not think the
Planning Commission had to accept late information
Vice Chair Cote disagreed, as the Chairman accepted the information and it was
provided to the Planning Commission, and therefore she felt she had to consider the
information. She stated that she visited the Berman property to view the roof deck,
however she did not understand the ramification of the roof deck with respect to the
neighbors' privacy She questioned if it might be prudent to continue the item to allow
the Planning Commissioners the time to visit the site to consider the concerns of the
neighbors
Chairman Mueller asked if there was a privacy issue raised when the height variation
was before the Planning Commission when considering the new house
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that, when reviewing the minutes from that
meeting, the only issue raised was neighborhood compatibility
Vice Chair Cote agreed, however noted that at the time the foliage on the property was
extensive and neighbors may not have understood the privacy impacts from this house
once the foliage was removed.
In reviewing the Resolution adopted for the home, Associate Planner Blumenthal noted
that the Planning Commission was able to make the findings for privacy based on the
location of the other structures, the distance between the structures, and the
topographical changes in the area
Chairman Mueller did not feel there was a large concern that he could raise about the
roof deck that he could not raise about the other parts of the structure, and given that he
did not think this roof deck was such a large extension to the balcony He felt that the
neighbors have other ways to mitigate their privacy with foliage, and to try to depend on
the applicant to maintain the foliage on their property, he did not think that was a
reasonable request. He did not think it was not the responsibility of the applicant to
maintain foliage to protect the abutting properties, noting however that the applicant is
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 17
proposing foliage along the property line He did not think the continuance was
necessary as the structure is under 16 feet and there is no privacy finding to make
Commissioner Gerstner also did not think continuing the public hearing to allow the
Commissioners the opportunity to go back out to the property would offer him anything
additional than he already has. He stated that given that the house is located far from
property lines and that the neighbors have ample opportunity to plant vegetation to
protect their privacy, he did not object to the roof deck.
Commissioner Knight stated that the second story addition may not have much
infringement on the neighbors' privacy, however the addition of the roof deck allows an
area where a person can walk up to the edge of the roof deck and have a vantage point
quite a bit further forward He felt this was a significant difference in the original
application approval. Regarding the foliage, he felt that if an applicant is creating a new
vantage point and asking the City to give permission to create the new vantage point
that may infringe on privacy, it can be appropriate for that person to provide mitigation
for the right to create that new vantage point He stated that he was troubled that one
would be standing at a vantage point 12 feet above the ground on this roof deck, yet the
City approaches this as if it were a first story addition below 16 feet in terms of the
privacy analysis.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-31 thereby
approving the Height Variation (Case No. ZON2003-00559) as presented by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Karp. Approved, (4-2) with Commissioner Knight
and Vice Chair Cote dissenting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
7 Minutes of July 13, 2004
Chairman Mueller noted revisions to page 15 of the minutes
Commissioner Gerstner moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (5-0-1) with Vice Chair abstaining since she
was absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
8. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of August 10, 2004
Commissioner Karp suggested a future agenda item to discuss the procedure for late
submissions and whether those submissions should be accepted by the Planning
Commission
ADJOURNMENT
Planning Commission Minutes
July 27, 2004
Page 18
The meeting was adjourned at 1218 a.m.
Planning Commission Miriutes
July 27, 2004
Page 19