PC MINS 20040622CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 22, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
App
July 13,
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mueller at 7:00 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Van Wagner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Karp, Knight, Van Wagner, Vice Chair Cote,
Chairman Mueller
Absent" Commissioner Tetreault was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Project
Coordinator Nelson, Project Coordinator Alvarez, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The Planning Commission unanimously approved the agenda as presented
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed one item of correspondence regarding Agenda Item
No. 3 and a letter from a resident regarding a proposed addition in Palos Verdes
Estates.
Chairman Mueller announced that the first meeting of the Residential Development
Standards Steering Committee would be held on Wednesday, June 23
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Minutes of May 11, 2004
Commissioner Knight noted clarifications on pages 3, 15, and 16 of the minutes
Vice Chair Cote noted a typo on page 11 and an omission on page 14 of the minutes.
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Van Wagner. Approved, (4-0-2) with Commissioner Karp
abstaining since he was absent from the meeting and Chairman Mueller
abstaining since he was absent from the last half of the meeting.
2. Minutes of May 25, 2004
Commissioner Knight noted a clarification to page 11 of the minutes
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Karp. Approved, (4-0-1) with Commissioner Van Wagner
abstaining since he was absent from the meeting.
3. View Restoration Permit No. 123: 28541 Palos Verdes Drive East
Commissioner Van Wagner stated that he was not present at the meeting when this
item was discussed and he had not reviewed the tape or the minutes, and therefore was
recusing himself from hearing this item.
Director/Secretary Rojas polled the remaining Commissioners as to who had visited the
site All of the Commissioners had visited the site and could therefore participate in the
public hearing
Project Coordinator Nelson presented the staff report, explaining that at the May 25th
meeting Vice Chair Cote had started a motion, which is summarized in the current staff
report, noting that the motion was not completed since the meeting was adjourned due
to the lateness of the hour. She explained that between the May 25th meeting and this
meeting there were attempts to resolve the issues between the applicant and the foliage
owners, however no agreement was reached. She distributed a cross sectional diagram
to the Planning Commission which she hoped would clarify staffs trimming level
recommendations
Commissioner Knight referred to a letter in the staff report from Mr. Zaccaro in which he
brought up three main issues. He noted that the first concern was the defoliation of the
trees. Commissioner Knight stated that his understanding of the staff report was that
there would be no defoliation of the trees, rather trimming below the canopy was
recommended
Project Coordinator Nelson answered that was correct.
Commissioner Knight stated the second concern in the letter was the age of the trees,
however he noted that staff agreed that the trees are approximately 50 years old He
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 2
stated that the third concern raised in Mr Zaccaro's letter was that his licensed arborist
had a concern for the health of the trees if they are pruned pursuant to the staff report.
He noted, however, that the arborist report addressed cutting the trees to ground level
and not raising the crown of the trees as staff was recommending, and asked staff if that
was correct
Project Coordinator Nelson answered that was correct.
Commissioner Karp moved to re -open the public hearing for the purpose of
seeking additional information from the applicant and foliage owners, seconded
by Commissioner Gerstner.
Chairman Mueller stressed that the purpose of re -opening the public hearing should be
only to hear any new information that would be relevant to the case
Commissioner Karp stated that he had specific questions for the applicant
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp asked Mr. White (applicant) about a letter dated September 6, 2001
addressed to the Menjous and Zaccaros, which stated that contingent on Mr. Zaccaro
withdrawing his appeal to the City of Mr. White's proposed addition, Mr. White agreed to
retain the existing landscape along the property line
Mr White stated that lie did write that letter, however the referenced foliage has nothing
to do with foliage in front of his house blocking his view, instead the subject foliage
referenced in the letter concerned the foliage along the Menjou's driveway.
Commissioner Karp noted that he did not read the letter that way, noting that in his
opinion Mr White agreed to maintain the existing landscaping
Mr White stated that the letter was referring to the landscaping only on his property, not
the Menjou property, and that he was agreeing not to cut down the tree or the oleander
on his property.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Chairman Mueller felt that the Planning Commission should try to continue crafting the
motion that was started at the previous meeting
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the new Resolution that is attached to the new
staff report (page 4 of 8) summarizes the partial motion made at the last meeting
Project Coordinator Nelson summarized by explaining that at the previous meeting Vice
Chair Cote had begun a motion stating the following: 1) regarding photo no 1, the
crown of the pittosporum should be raised to a height that is 6 to 10 feet above the
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 3
Zaccaro residence, and trimming should occur every 6 months, 2) pittosporum 3 and 4,
the oleander, and the calycanthus shall be trimmed down to a level 3 feet above the
White's building pad and trimmed bi-annually beginning 6 months after the initial
trimming or until such time as the foliage grows to a height that is 4 feet above the
White's building pad, 3) no action recommended on the foliage in photo no. 2, which is
the brazilian pepper, the maple, the cedar, and the pittosporum, 3) regarding the giant
palm, the discussion was to leave the recommendation as it is, even though trimming
has been performed, 4) the ficus to be trimmed down and shaped to the level of the
ridgeline, and trimming to occur on a bi-annual basis beginning 6 months after the initial
trimming; 5) the Chinese elm to be trimmed down the ridgeline of the Zaccaro residence
and trimming to occur every 6 months, noting that this is what the foliage owner had
requested on this tree.
Chairman Mueller referred to photo no. 2 and asked staff if any of the foliage was
blocking any significant landmarks.
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that the view is a continuation of the city lights
and did not feel there were any significant landmarks in that viewing area
Commissioner Karp asked staff to indicate on the aerial photograph the shrubbery Mr
White was discussing on the west side of his property.
Project Coordinator pointed out the shrubbery in question, noting the foliage is on Mr.
White's property.
Vice Chair Cote asked staff if raising the crown of the schefflera would help restore the -
White's view.
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that the schefflera was currently peering over the
ridgeline and did not think raising the crown would restore the view, which is why staff
was recommending trimming the schefflera to the ridgeline.
Vice Chair Cote continued the motion, recommending that 1) follow staff
recommendation for the schefflera; 2) staff recommendation for the ash, however
the initial trimming not be until November or December; 3) on the various view
impairing foliage, as recommended by staff in the staff report; 4) on the Menjou
property the aleppo pine, the eucalyptus, the pittosporum, and the brazilian
pepper the action shall be no trimming at this time; 5) the canary island pine be
laced heavily and the trimming occur annually during the cool months; 6) and no
changes to the staff recommendations on the rest of the draft resolution,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
Commissioner Knight asked staff, if after the trimming occurs, should staff determine
that the foliage in the peripheral view causes a problem in the view, will the matter be
brought back to the Planning Commission or if a decision will be made at the staff level.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 4
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that if additional action is necessary, the item
would not come back to the Planning Commission for further review.
Commissioner Karp hoped that the Planning Commission takes into account the
financial burden placed on the foliage owners, as it will cost several thousand dollars
every year to maintain the trees, which he felt was a reduction in the value of their
property He felt the City should be very careful when imposing economic
consequences on people
Chairman Mueller felt that as part of the Planning Commission duties it was important to
not necessarily vote according to their conscience, but rather to look at the Ordinance
and the findings the staff has made, balance those against the privacy concerns of the
foliage owner, and attempt to craft a motion to restore the view if the view is significantly
impaired. He did not think that taking into account financial obligations is within the
Planning Commission's purview.
Vice Chair Cote agreed, noting that the role of the Planning Commission is to make the
six mandatory findings for a view restoration permit, and of those six findings none of
them deal with economic impact associated with the trimming. She stated that in this
application, she could make all of the necessary findings.
Chairman Mueller discussed the trees on the Menjou property, and felt that these trees
could possibly affect the view from the White's main viewing area.
Chairman Mueller moved to amend the motion to restore the staff
recommendation with regards to photo no. 3, involving the Aleppo pine, the
pittosporum, and the brazilian pepper on the Menjou property.
The amendment failed due to the lack of a second.
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that there are two submitted speaker slips He
explained that although the public hearing was closed at the previous meeting, he had
checked with the City Attorney, and she felt that since the item is on the agenda, it
would be best to allow the speakers to speak if they are requesting to do so
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Jim White 28541 Palos Verdes Drive East (applicant) stated that staff has been to his
site several times to evaluate the foliage and he felt that the staff report and
recommendations in the report were very fair and reasonable. He stated that the foliage
on the Menjou property does affect his view
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr White if there was any significant landmark through the
Menjou property that he felt was being obstructed by the foliage.
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June 22, 2004
Page 5
Mr. White stated that he would like to have as wide a perspective of the city lights as
possible, and the Menjou foliage was in the way of that view.
Chairman Mueller asked Mr White if, after tnmming of the trees and foliage on the
Zaccaro property, if the foliage on the Menjou property would then become more visible
and more apparent in terms of blocking the view.
Mr White stated that he felt that was the case
John Zaccaro 28531 Palos Verdes Drive East (foliage owner) stated that he and the
Menjous had agreed to drop their appeal of Mr White's variance request in exchange
for his agreement that foliage on their properties would not have to be trimmed He
addressed privacy, and stated that what the Planning Commission was recommending
in their resolution would clearly infringe on his privacy, as the Whites will now be able to
look directly into his bedrooms and bathroom He stated that the recommendations
would pose a severe economic hardship on him, as this amount of trimming would be
very expensive.
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr. Zaccaro what specific foliage he would recommend a
different opinion on in regards to the privacy issue
Mr. Zaccaro showed on photo no. 1 how two of his bedrooms and a bathroom are in
clear view from the White's wall and pool area, which are only 28 feet away He asked
that a man 6 feet or taller not be able to look down into his bedrooms or bathroom. He
stated that any person that walks by the wall, if the foliage is trimmed to one foot above
the wall, will look directly into his bedrooms, which is a privacy issue He asked that the
Planning Commission consider raising the level of the foliage so that it does not impair
the White's view but gives him his privacy
Chairman Mueller noted that the Guidelines advise giving more consideration to outdoor
privacy versus indoor privacy, and asked Mr. Zaccaro what mitigation methods he has
on his bathroom and bedroom windows that could prevent someone from looking in
Mr Zaccaro asked Chairman Mueller if he was suggesting that he keep his windows
closed year round, preventing fresh air and Tight from reaching his bedrooms and
bathroom
Chairman Mueller responded that he was not suggesting that, and that there may be
other ways to mitigate the privacy issues such as translucent windows or drapes
Mr. Zaccaro answered that he was being asked to change his home, as light and air is
essential in bedrooms and bathrooms
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Zaccaro if he had considered planting foliage closer to his
windows so that nobody could see in.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 6
Mr. Zaccaro answered that there is foliage in place already and replacing it would not
solve the problem.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Vice Chair Cote appreciated the comments from the applicant and foliage owner and
noted that Mr. Zaccaro's privacy concerns are from the indoors rather than the
outdoors, and the guidelines indicate giving the outdoor privacy more weight on the
decision making process She therefore did not feel it was necessary to change the
motion on the table
Commissioner Gerstner agreed, and stated that he will maintain his second to the
motion
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they had stood at the wall and looked down onto the
Zaccaro property before making the recommendation to cut the foliage to one foot
above the wall level
Project Coordinator Nelson explained that the privacy assessment was made by staff
from the viewing area, which is within the house or within 10 feet of the house, and not
from the setback area. She stated that if one is standing at the wall looking down you
would be in the setback area, and whether this was a view case or not, privacy issues
would always be a possibility if the windows are open. She noted that the guidelines
are very clear with respect to indoor versus outdoor privacy because of the mitigations
that are at a resident's disposal
Project Coordinator Nelson noted a proposed change on page 5 of the revised
resolution under the subject "various view impairing foliage", that staff felt would be in
keeping with other measurements She suggested that the wording be changed for
ease of discussion from "rear side yard fence" to "ridgeline" to keep the resolution
consistent
The Planning Commission agreed.
Regarding privacy, Chairman Mueller felt that the recommendation to trim the foliage
along the wall will make the foliage in line with the ridgeline of the Zaccaro residence
and he felt it would be very difficult to look down from the White's residence into the
Zaccaro residence He therefore did not feel there was a privacy issue when combining
that with the potential mitigation measures that could be taken to preserve the indoor
privacy
The motion passed, (3-1-2) with Chairman Mueller dissenting and Commissioners
Karp and Van Wagner abstaining.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 7
At 8.30 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8:40 p.m. at which time
they reconvened.
CONTINUED BUSINESS (cont)
4. View Restoration Permit No. 145: 28016 Calzada Drive
Director/Secretary Rojas polled the Planning Commission as to who had visited the site.
All Planning Commissioners present had visited the site
Project Coordinator Alvarez presented the staff report, giving a brief history of the
application He explained that staff has identified 6 trees on the foliage owner's rear
yard slope, showing a picture taken from the applicant's property and the trees in
question. He identified the different views that were behind the foliage, including the
city lights of Long Beach, the Long Beach and Los Angeles harbor, and potentially a
view of the Vincent Thomas Bridge He explained that staff has not determined if the
bridge is within the view. He explained that if the trees are trimmed there will be other
trees beyond the foliage owner's property that will very likely affect the view He
concluded by explaining the staff recommendations for the trees in the staff report, and
noted that staff did not feel that privacy was an issue as the view was taken from the
applicant's living room area. He did note, however, that because the applicant's
property is so shallow,' that if the foliage is trimmed, it would be possible to look into the
foliage owner's rear yard and patio when standing within 5 feet of the rear yard property
line He noted that the applicant's property is operating as an elderly care facility He
concluded by stating triat staff could make the necessary 5 findings and was
recommending appro*al of the view restoration application, as summarized in the staff
report.
1
Commissioner Van Wagner asked if there was any distinction that could be made in
regards to this residence being an elderly care facility.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that no difference could be made, noting that the
State of California requires that cities consider residential care facilities as residential
uses and not businesses, and the City is pre-empted from regulating residential day
care facilities.
Commissioner Van Wagner asked staff to clarify the recommendations for the carrot
wood tree.
Project Coordinator Alvarez explained that staff was recommending the lateral branches
of the carrot wood tree be tnmmed back towards the main trunk to restore the view.
Commissioner Karp noted that the applicant's property is not where the applicant
resides and this is the Martz business location
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June 22, 2004
Page 8
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they were recommending deferring the trimming of
trees 7 through 10 in the staff report depending upon where staff locates the Vincent
Thomas Bndge
Project Coordinator Alvarez explained that was correct, as staff felt they would have a
better understanding of the nature of the view to the right of the view frame once the
pittosporum trees in the center of the view are trimmed down
Commissioner Knight asked how staff would approach trees 7 through 10 after the
pittosporum was cut, and if the issue would come back to the Planning Commission at
that time
Project Coordinator Alvarez answered that it would be handled at the staff level
Commissioner Gerstner felt that if trees 7 through 10 are blocking the view of the
Vincent Thomas Bridge, the trimming required to restore the view may be significant as
the trees are all lined up He asked staff if they had formulated any recommendations
on how those trees are to be trimmed to restore the view of the bridge, if indeed they
are blocking the view of the bridge
Project Coordinator Alvarez explained that staff had considered windowing the pine tree
(tree no. 7), topping the Cypress tree, and raising the crown of the ash tree. He stated
that staff felt the most significant problem would be the palm tree, as it is quite possible
the entire head of the palm tree would impact the view after all of the other trees are
trimmed. He stated that staff may extend the offer to the foliage owner to trim the palm
or remove the tree
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff if the applicant has commented on the amount or
scope of the view they are trying to recover
Project Coordinator Alvarez answered that the applicant has indicated that she was
most interested in opening up the view to the center and left of her property, but was
also anxious to open up the view of the Vincent Thomas Bridge if that was possible.
Vice Chair Cote asked staff to clarify the area where the applicant had offered to plant a
hedge on the foliage owner's property to help with the privacy concerns.
Project Coordinator Alvarez showed on a photograph the area in question along the
rear yard property line.
Commissioner Knight asked if the View Restoration Ordinance addresses privacy only
from the viewing area
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff typically does their analysis from the
viewing area, as the Ordinance discusses a reasonable protection of privacy, and staff
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 9
feels that it is unreasonable to expect privacy protection at the very edge of a property
line or yard.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Laura Martz 28016 Calzada Drive (applicant) felt that the recommendations in the staff
report are very fair She stated that she would be happy to plant flowers or some other
type of foliage along the rear property wall to help prevent people from being able to
look down onto the foliage owner's property. She stated that she used to be able to
look down and see the bridge, harbor and cruise ships and even though it is an elderly
care facility, the residents enjoy looking at that view.
Commissioner Gerstner asked Ms Martz if she remembered having a view of the
Vincent Thomas Bridge from inside the house
Ms Martz answered that she could not recall if it was from inside the house, but could
remember seeing the bridge from the patio area.
Commissioner Gerstner asked Ms. Martz if she was stili willing to plant some type of
hedge along the foliage owner's property.
Ms. Martz answered that she would be willing to do whatever it would take to restore
her view and keep the foliage owner happy
Commissioner Van Wagner asked Ms Martz if she had any plans to trim or remove the
tree in her backyard
Ms Martz answered that she had no plans to remove the tree but keeps it trimmed and
thinned out, noting that the main part of the view is to the right of the tree where the
harbor, bridge, and cruise ships can be seen
Mark Hamburg 281195 Montereina Drive (foliage owner) stated that he was concerned
that if a hedge were planted on his side of the wall it would be very difficult to maintain,
as the slope is very steep He stated that he was agreeable to trimming the foliage to a
certain point on the back slope provided that people within a 10 -foot area could not see
into their backyard. He suggested a hedge on the applicant's side which could be more
easily maintained and would discourage people away from the rear property wall. He
felt that the palm tree was most likely in the way of the tops of the supports for the
Vincent Thomas Bridge rather than the full view of the bridge He stated that the palm
has a trunk of approximately 5 feet in diameter and felt that it may have been an original
tree He stated that another concern was the amount of traffic in the backyard area that
results from any business, and because of that extra traffic he would strongly
recommend expanding the viewing area to 10 feet rather than 5 as suggested by staff
He questioned how much of a view his trees were blocking behind the tree on the Martz
property.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 10
Commissioner Van Wagner asked Mr Hamburg why he did not participate in the early
negotiation process in the beginning of this process.
Mr Hamburg answered that he did not feel that he was the proper person to be making
these types of decisions and he wanted some type of mediating body involved.
Commissioner Karp asked Mr. Hamburg if he would be agreeable to planting the hedge
on his property if the applicant agreed to allowing the trimming be done and access
granted from her side of the property
Mr Hamburg replied that he would be more comfortable if the hedge were planted on
the applicant's side of the fence, as it would not be as difficult to trim and it would keep
people from approaching the edge of the fence and giving them additional privacy
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Hamburg if he were to plant a hedge a little further down
on his slope but was allowed to let it grow to the top of the property line wall, wouldn't
that provide more privacy to his pool area.
Mr Hamburg answered that was correct, however he did not know how he would
maintain it and top it safely.
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Hamburg, if the palm tree is indeed blocking the view of
the bridge, did he have any suggestions on how to mitigate that problem, and asked if
removal and replacement would be an option.
Mr Hamburg felt that the palm tree is a very massive tree with an enormous trunk and
he did not know what suggestions to make He stated that removing the tree would not
be his first choice, however he would most likely agree to the removal. He stated that
he was more interested in protecting tree no 9, which is a beautiful mature tree which
drops foliage for approximately 7 months out of the year
Laura Martz (in rebuttal) stated that she had no objection to putting the hedge on her
side of the property.
Mr. Hamburg (in rebuttal) appreciated the agreement by the foliage owner to plant the
hedge on her side of the property, as that would alleviate much of their privacy
concerns.
Commissioner Knight stated that the recommendation by staff is to trim the pittosporum,
however the pittosporum grows very fast and asked Mr. Hamburg if the maintenance
was going to be a problem.
Mr. Hamburg explained that he can access and move around the pittosporum fairly
easily He stated that if the new hedge is mature and fully filled in he may consider
removing the pittosporums, as they only provide visual blockage and do not add any
significant value or beauty to the backyard
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 11
Commissioner Van Wagner asked Mr. Hamburg if he was agreeing to the
recommendations in the staff report with the caveat that a hedge be planted on the
applicant's property.
Mr Hamburg answered that in regards to trees 1 through 6, he was in agreement with
the recommendations with the addition of a hedge on the applicant's side to be
maintained at the top of the wrought iron fence or at a height of 5 feet 6 inches He
stated that he was a little Tess certain about the large trees on the property (trees 7
through 10) as he did not know what they would look like after the trimming, and asked
that if he was unhappy with the condition of the trees after the trimming, he be offered
the option to have them removed at the applicant's cost.
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Hamburg if he was completely against trimming down to
five feet, even though the applicant may plant a hedge on her side which would be at
the same level and keep people away from the fence
Mr. Hamburg stated that if the applicant were willing to keep the hedge height at the top
of the wrought iron fence, he would be fine with trimming to the five-foot height on his
side. He stated that he would like to have some type of provision in the resolution that
would require the applicant to maintain the hedge at that height
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Chairman Mueller asked staff if placing a condition that the applicant plant a hedge on
her property was something that the Ordinance allows the Planning Commission to do.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the guidelines allow the Planning Commission
to mitigate for privacy and the Planning Commission has the ability to put conditions on
the applicant's application
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the applicant pays for the trees to be trimmed can the
Planning Commission they require the applicant to pay for the removal of the trees if the
foliage owner is not satisfied with the results of the trimming.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the City cannot require the applicant to pay for both
trimming and removal of the same tree
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he had no objection to allow staff to determine if
trees 7 through 10 created a significant view impairment of the bridge once trimmed.
He felt that even after trimming the palm tree the five-foot trunk would most likely
continue to cause view impairment of the bridge and that it may be best to remove the
tree Regarding the ash tree, he noted that it most likely is deciduous tree, however the
leaves are not off of the tree for seven months, rather they leaves are off the tree for
less than six months. He felt that this applicant has been very open to suggestions and
would like to see the ash tree remain as is if possible If this is not the case, the tree
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 12
would have to be topped, however that would not be his preference He agreed with
staff recommendations for trees 7 and 8 He appreciated that the applicant is willing to
put the hedge on her property, however he was hesitant on requiring the applicant to
plant something on her property to protect the privacy of a neighboring property and felt
that a hedge could be planted on the foliage owner's property near the top of the wall
and maintained from the applicant's property He felt that the pittisporum could be cut
to 5 feet, privacy would be maintained, and maintenance would be easier than
maintaining the hedge.
Commissioner Knight disagreed, stating that when he stood near the edge of the
applicant's property he could see down to the Hamburg's backyard. He felt that the
hedge was an important mitigation device and the solution of planting it on the
applicant's property was not a bad solution, especially since the applicant appeared
willing to plant the hedge Regarding trees 7 through 10 he was comfortable with
allowing staff's good judgment on the trees, however he felt wording should be added to
the condition that if the subject tree is found to significantly impact the view of the
Vincent Thomas Bridge from "the primary viewing area" at 28016 Calzada Drive
Commissioner Karp agreed that the applicant should put the hedge on their property
and that the foliage owner can always plant additional hedges on their side of their
property. Regarding trees 7 through 10, he recommended giving the Hamburg's 15
days after the approval of the applicant to make the decision as to whether they want
the trees trimmed or removed, as he felt it was unfair to make this type of decision
during a public forum.;
Commissioner Van Wagner agreed with Commissioner Knight's comments, agreed with
planting the hedge ons the applicant's property, and to defer the decision on trees 7
through 10 and allow staff to do the analysis on the trees after the work on trees 1
through 6 has been done
Vice Chair Cote stated that she was able to make the necessary findings for this case
She also felt that there was a privacy issue for the foliage owner and supported planting
the hedge on the applicant's property, as the applicant had stated she was willing to do
so, however she did not feel the hedge should be any higher than the blue line (five
feet) depicted in the staffs presentation, as it would cause an added expense to the
applicant Regarding trees 7 through 10, she felt language should be added that the
trees may be removed with the foliage owner's consent so that it is clear that there are
some options to the foliage owner and applicant.
Chairman Mueller stated that he did not like to require the applicant put a hedge on her
property, and found it burdensome that the applicant will have to plant and maintain a
hedge when there is no restriction that the foliage owner couldn't have a hedge or
foliage trimmed to five feet on their property He felt that foliage could be planted on the
forage owner's property in certain locations that would provide more privacy to the
backyard
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 13
Commissioner Karp stated that the applicant has volunteered to place a hedge on her
property and that it therefore should not be considered burdensome or an imposition.
Regarding trees 7 through 10, Commissioner Knight asked staff if the applicant does
not agree with staffs assessment that the trees block the view of the bridge, would they
then be able to appeal the decision to the Planning Commission.
Project Planner Alvarez answered that there would be no appeal available after the 15
day appeal period expires
Vice Chair Cote stated that if she were the foliage owner she would like to have the
hedge on her property, however in this situation the foliage owner has asked the hedge
be placed on the applicant's property and the applicant has agreed to plant the hedge
and maintain it Therefore, she felt the Planning Commission should respect the wishes
of the foliage owner.
Chairman Mueller asked staff to clarify the appeal process for trees 7 through 10
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the Planning Commission has deferred
decisions to staff in the past so there is precedence for such action He stated that if
the foliage owner feels this wording is too vague they have the option of appealing the
decision within 15 days He explained that he will be very specific with the foliage
owners as to exactly what he will be looking for in regards to the trees and the view. He
stated that if the applicant is concerned and does not appeal, they will loose the ability
to appeal later down the line.
Chairman Mueller asked if it would be reasonable to break this case up and decide on
the trimming for trees 1 through 6 with the appropriate resolution and somehow break
off trees 7 through 10 so that the foliage owner has the opportunity to come back to staff
or the Planning Commission to be able to discuss whether there is a significant view
impairment.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that this could be written into the resolution if that was
the desire of the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Knight asked if it was possible, rather than mandate trees 7 through 10
come back to the Planning Commission, to go forward with staff's recommendation and
if there is an issue it can come back to the Planning Commission.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that there is a section in the Code that gives the ability
to bring cases back to the Planning Commission to clarify decisions
Commissioner Van Wagner agreed that it is important to have an avenue for the foliage
owner to come back to the Planning Commission for trees 7 through 10 if there is a
dispute or a concern
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 14
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2004-29 thereby approving
VRP No. 145 as presented by staff, for trees 1 through 6 only with the additional
condition that the applicant provide a hedge along the rear property line and the
hedge be maintained at 5 feet above grade, seconded by Commissioner Karp.
Approved, (4-2) with Commissioner Gerstner and Chairman Mueller dissenting.
Chairman Mueller noted that he voted no only because he did not think it was
necessary for the applicant to plant the hedge on her property
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that he has reviewed the code and felt that the cleanest
way to deal with trees 7 through 10 would be to re -write the condition that will allow staff
to re-evaluate the situation after trees 1 through 6 are addressed and report back to the
Planning Commission with it's findings. He noted that this would then be a noticed
hearing before the Planning Commission.
Chairman Mueller moved to have staff evaluate trees 7 through 10 after trees 1
through 6 have been trimmed to determine whether there is significant view
impairment and report back to the Planning Commission on their findings at a
noticed public hearing, seconded by Vice Chair Cote. Approved, (6-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 10:40 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 10:45 p.m. at which
time they reconvened.
5. Review of the City Tree Review Permit Process (Case No. ZON2004-00160)
Before beginning the item Vice Chair Cote asked that the Planning Commission be
polled as to whether they would be in favor of beginning a new item after 11:00.
Chairman Mueller stated that he would be in favor of trying to discuss all items on the
agenda, however he would not want to go past midnight.
Commissioners Van Wagner, Karp, Gerstner, Knight, and Vice Chair Cote were in favor
of hearing item no. 5 but starting no new business after that
Project Coordinator Alvarez presented the staff report, explaining that the City Attorney
has reviewed the draft language and staff has prepared the code changes for the
Planning Commission's consideration. He stated that staff is requesting the Planning
Commission consider the code amendment language, and should the Planning
Commission accept the proposed amendments, recommend approval of the proposed
language and forward a recommendation of approval to the City Council
Chairman Mueller noted that the City Council has determined that fees will be charged
for the City Tree Permit, however he felt that the City should bear the cost of some of
these permits as they may be responsible for the view impairment. He discussed the
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 15
notification process and asked staff if they ever notify a HOA as a courtesy for any
permit issued in the city.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that staff does notify HOA regarding certain
applications, stating a height variation application as an example. He explained that for
other types of projects staff will notify the HOA only when they have provided envelopes
and asked to be notified.
Commissioner Van Wagner agreed that the City needs to set an example with the City
Tree Permit process if there is a view impairing tree, noting that if there is a view
impairing tree it should be the City's responsibility and the resident should not be
charged to submit an application. He agreed with the staff recommendation that the
HOA should be notified regarding City Tree Permit reviews. Finally, he stated that he
was not in agreement with issue no 3 in the staff report, and suggested a 6 -month trial
period where the City can evaluate whether it was cost effective
Commissioner Knight noted that the Public Works Department has a tree purchase and
planting grant and asked if they would be coordinating with staff in terms of impact of
planting trees that may have view impacts and the ordinance.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there has been a tendency for Public Works to
check with staff regarding the type of trees they planted
Commissioner Knight discussed the issue of insurance and asked staff, if the City hires
a tree trimmer to trim a city tree and something happens where a branch falls and
damages an abutting property owner's plants or the tree trimmer falls and injures
himself, does the City insurance cover the abutting property owner's liabilities
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that when these types of situations happen whoever
is harmed may file a claim with the City and the City can defer the claim to the
insurance company that covers the tree trimming crew If the person feels that they did
not receive a satisfactory result they can then file a claim with the City, which will be
given to the City's insurance company.
Chairman Knight asked if someone other than an abutting property owner, such as the
HOA, could be given the option of adopting a city tree.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that currently tree adoption is only offered to the
abutting property owner
Commissioner Knight was concerned with that, as he felt that the aesthetics the trees
add to the street are an important element to the neighborhood, and felt there should be
some sort of option where one of the other persons notified could opt to adopt the tree
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 16
Chairman Mueller stated that the abutting property owner is the one most affected by
the tree in the parkway and did not think that the HOA or another party notified should
have the right to impose a view obstruction upon the abutting property owner
Commissioner Knight answered that he did not interpret this to mean a tree is adopted
which will continue to obstruct views, as his assumption was that the tree would be
maintained at a point which does not impair the view. He was concerned that if a tree is
not adopted it will be removed and not replaced
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that if a city tree is removed it will be replaced, unless
there is an adverse issue with replacement. He stated that if the Planning Commission
agrees, language could be added that any of the parties notified could chose to adopt
the tree
Commissioner Knight also felt if was important, if possible, to notify the HOA or other
interested parties that an abutting property does not want to maintain a tree and give
them the opportunity to adopt the tree
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that such language was possible to add to the
resolution However, he noted that it could create problems that currently do not exist
Specifically, how is a neighbor going to maintain a tree that is located down the street
and in front of a different neighbor
Commissioner Knight asked if the agreement is made with the property owner
appurtenant to the property, so that if the property is sold the new property owner is
obliged by the agreement.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that when an agreement is entered into it is
recorded with the property, and noted that this language was left out of the Resolution
and will need to be added.
Chairman Mueller asked what rights the property owners currently have regarding city
trees that abut their property
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that this issue is really in the realm of the Public Works
Department, however property owners have the responsibility to maintain the parkway
and the tree in that parkway However if a tree in the parkway becomes unsightly or
dangerous the Public Works Department has a policy when they will remove and
replace trees.
Vice Chair Cote asked if many of these cases are appealed to the Planning
Commission (previously the View Restoration Commission)
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that these are permits that have been issued for
many years and could only recall three appeals taken to the View Restoration
Commission, noting that any current appeal would be taken to the Planning
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 17
Commission. He stated that these are staff level decisions and since the Planning
Commission has taken over the view matters staff has made close to 30 decisions with
no appeals filed
Commissioner Gerstner noted that these changes were predicated on saving the staff
time, and asked staff if they felt all of this was going to save staff time.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt there were two things being changed that will save the staff
time. He explained that the imposition of a fee will reduce staffs net cost and that the
changes are simplifying the process, as it is much more expensive to trim and maintain
a tree rather than remove and replace it.
Chairman Mueller asked if the notification to the HOA and the 10 closest homes will
increase the cost over what is currently being done
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that there may be a slight cost increase in notifying
additional residents
Director/Secretary Rojas summarized the changes discussed by the Planning
Commission. 1) on page 2 of 5 not use the term "city personnel" but rather "by the
City"; 2) page 3 of 5, subsection c be clarified that the intent is that the person who
receives notification of the Director's decision files a written request to not remove the
tree, the tree or foliage may be pruned instead of removed; 3) page 3 of 5, clarify to say
the City and any one 9f the 10 property owners who receive notification of the City's
decision enter into an ;agreement that is recorded on the title of the property. Also, the
property owner shall Undertake and pay for such maintenance; 4) subsection 5, to
incorporate that only after a 30 day reminder notice would the city take any action
Commissioner Knight asked if that should also include the HOA.
Chairman Mueller disagreed and did not feel the city should be legislating exactly what
tree sits in front of a home and this was more control than he was willing to give to a
HOA.
Director/Secretary Rojas added that it would be different to enter into an agreement with
a HOA, as with a property owner there is a title an agreement can be recorded to
Chairman Mueller felt an abutting property owner should have some rights in terms of
what is going on in his/her front yard and to legislate that another party can have some
control over what goes on in a neighboring parkway was troublesome to him He felt
that if a property owner does not want the tree to remain but would rather have the tree
removed and replaced he should have that option, and he did not think it was a good
idea to delegate that decision to another party within the neighborhood
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 18
Commissioner Knight felt that there would be the risk where a particular neighborhood
has a certain aesthetic to it with the trees and would allow one property owner to dictate
what the rest of the residents on that street may or may not have in terms of the tree.
Chairman Mueller reminded the Commission that the intent of these changes was to try
to give recommendations to the City Council to save the City money and streamline the
process and to start going the other way and make it more complicated, he did not think
the Planning Commission was doing its due diligence
Vice Chair Cote stated that she was torn on this issue and could see both sides of the
issue, however she felt that the purpose of this discussion was to try to address the
view related issues, and the with that purpose in mind, she was more inclined for this
specific issue to support Chairman Mueller's position
Vice Chair Cote moved to revise the draft language as follows: 1) on page 2 of 5
subparagraph 1(a) the language be changed to "by the City" rather than by "city
personnel"; 2) revise paragraph 1(c) in the preamble to add language to say "if
someone files a written request to not remove a tree then the trees can be pruned
rather than removed"; 3) revise subparagraph C -IV to clarify that the agreement
will be binding on the property owner directly abutting the tree and any future
property owners, seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
Commissioner Knight moved to amend the motion to amend section 5 to include
the language regarding a 30 -day reminder notice, seconded by Commissioner
Gerstner.
Vice Chair Cote accepted the amendment to her motion.
Chairman Mueller asked the Vice Chair if she would consider in her motion a
recommendation to the City Council that they consider an application fee
reimbursement process.
Vice Chair Cote stated that she wouldn't mind the recommendation as part of the
motion as long as there was a comment that the refund was applicable only if it was
determined that the tree caused a significant view impact.
Commissioner Knight moved to amend the motion to add language in Section 4
which says the property owner shall undertake and pay for future maintenance.
Vice Chair Cote accepted the amendment to her motion.
Commissioner Knight still felt that language should be added to give the option to the
other 10 property owners notified to adopt the tree in question.
The amended motion passed, (6-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 19
6. Review of the Citv's View Restoration Guidelines
The item was continued to July 27, 2004.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
7. Minutes of June 8, 2004
Continued to July 13, 2004.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:50 p m.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 22, 2004
Page 20