PC MINS 20040608CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
JUNE 8, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
July 13, , • �4
The meeting was called to order by Commissioner Tetreault at 7 00 p m at the Fred
Hesse Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Gerstner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Karp, Knight, and Tetreault
Absent Commissioner Van Wagner, Vice Chair Cote, and Chairman Mueller were
excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Blumenthal, Associate Planner Schonborn, Assistant Planner Yu,
and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Tetreault explained that there is currently a quorum present to conduct
the Planning Commission meeting, however Commissioner Gerstner will have to leave
at 9:00. Therefore, at 9.00 there will no longer be a quorum and the meeting will
adjourn
Commissioner Karp moved to change the order of the Agenda to hear items 4 and
5 before item 1, seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (4-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed 5 items of correspondence for agenda item no. 1, 2
items on agenda item no. 2, 2 items on agenda item no 5, and distributed a recently
approved City Council policy on the distribution of comments from Commissioners on
agenda items He also announced that at the last City Council meeting the City Council
approved two development code initiation requests that will soon make their way to the
Commission, and that the Mayor and Mayor Pro -Tem have suggested that there be a
Saturday morning workshop to review the conduct of public meetings, possibly in late
July or August.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that there were several items of communications
distributed to the Commissioners at the meeting and noted that as much as the
Commission appreciates'as much input as possible, if they receive it but do not have
time to read it, it is of little value Therefore, he urged residents to submit their items of
communication to staff as early as possible
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2003-00617): 3410 Starline Drive
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and the need for the height variation application He stated that staff could make
the necessary findings for the height variation and was recommending approval of the
project.
Commissioner Karp asked what will happen to the existing garage.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the existing garage will remain, as there
are currently no plans to modify the garage
Commissioner Knight noted that Condition No 7 states that a minimum two -car garage
must be maintained on the property but does not specify where. He asked if it would be
permissible under the Code for the applicant to use the existing 2 -car garage and
convert the new 3 -car garage into habitable space
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that it may be permissible, noting that the
applicant would have to at least submit a Site Plan Review application to the Planning
Department to do so.
Commissioner Karp felt the Planning Commission may want to consider certain
restrictions be added to this application. He suggested that the condition include
prohibiting cook tops, ranges, garbage disposals, dishwashers, or power venting
systems.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that Condition No 8 requires a Second Unit
Covenant be recorded on the property, which will prohibit a second dwelling unit and
should cover Commissioner Karp's concerns
Commissioner Karp stated that his concern was that the area will become a rental unit
without the City's knowledge and that restrictions should be included that will prevent
this from happening.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 2
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff had the same concerns and could add
language that cooking equipment not be allowed in that room.
Commissioner Tetreault asked staff if Condition No. 8 in the staff report would prohibit
the use of the guesthouse as an independent dwelling.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that was correct
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the items mentioned by Commissioner Karp were
installed if that would then make the structure an independent dwelling, and if there
were other items in the Code regarding the second dwelling.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the inclusion of the items would constitute
a second unit, and noted that the code has standards regulating second units.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the Code had any restrictions on the maximum number
of covered parking spaces that a home can have
Associate Planner Schonborn answered there are not any restrictions on the maximum
number of covered parking spaces.
In reviewing Condition No. 8, Commissioner Knight asked staff if the Covenant would
prohibit a second dwelling unit on the property.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the covenant would allow a second
dwelling unit provided all provisions of the Municipal Code Section 17.10 are met.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that a guest unit or guest area is allowed on a single
family residential lot but it cannot be converted to have a kitchen because at that time it
will constitute a second dwelling unit. The City's code allows second units provided
certain conditions are met Therefore, to prevent the unauthorized conversion of the
guest house to a second unit, the property owner is being required to record a covenant
on their property stating that a kitchen will not be added unless the specific provisions of
the code are met
Commissioner Tetreault opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Commissioner Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Karp felt that there should be a statement in the Covenant that at no time
in the future will a second unit be allowed on this property.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that to do so would be in conflict with the State law,
as the City's Second Unit Ordinance was written partly to be consistent with State law
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 3
requirements that require cities to allow second units if certain standards and provisions
are met.
Commissioner Karp felt that if a discretionary permit is before the City, the City has the
ability to impose this type of restriction.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the discretionary permit before the Planning
Commission does not involve a request for a second unit, and that such a condition
would be more restrictive than what the Development Code allows.
Commissioner Karp explained that his intention was that he did not want to see this
structure converted into a rental unit for a third party.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the City had any restrictions regarding renting out a
room in a house to someone unrelated to you
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there was no such restriction in the City.
Commissioner Tetreault felt that because this is a detached structure there would be no
difference and there is no prohibition to renting out the unit, even without a kitchen
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff believes it is less likely for someone to rent
a unit without a kitchen, and to prevent this unit from being converted to a unit with a
kitchen, a covenant will be recorded which will allow staff to investigate any complaints
that a kitchen has been added to the unit
Commissioner Karp felt that this would satisfy his concerns.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-25, thereby
approving ZON2003-00617 as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner
Karp. Approved, (4-0).
5. Variance (Case No. ZON2004-00108): 4372 Admirable Drive
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report, explaining that staff has reviewed the
proposed project and determined that there are no exceptional or extraordinary
circumstances applicable to the property to warrant the Variance since the proposed
garage could be proposed to meet the required front yard setback In addition, staff
determined that granting the Variance would be detrimental to the public's welfare, as
staff felt that by reducing the length of the driveway the cars parked in the driveway
could encroach into the public right-of-way Therefore, staff determined that the findings
could not be made and was recommending denial of the Variance.
Commissioner Knight felt the wording in Finding No. 1 and Condition No 1 should be
changed for clarity to read either "a garage could be constructed" or "a modification of
the proposed garage could be constructed".
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 4
Commissioner Tetreault asked staff to clarify where the property line is in comparison to
the curb, as there are no sidewalks in that area.
Assistant Planner Yu displayed a photograph and explained that it appears from the plot
plan that there is 10 -feet of public right-of-way, between the curb and the property line.
Commissioner Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Glenn Streeter 4372 Admirable Drive (applicant) explained that his property is only 28
feet across and the house is wedged into the piece of property, noting that there is Tess
than the proper amount of clearance on the right side of the property He explained that
the original garage that was there for 50 years encroached onto the same easement as
the proposed garage by exactly the same number of square feet He stated that re-
doing the garage has always made sense, as the old garage was very difficult to
access He explained that with the approved plan for the garage he was led to believe
that he would not have to demolish the wall in his residence, however after the stakes
were in the ground he realized that he had less space in the new design without
demolishing the wall than he had with the old garage He explained that this room is
one that he would like to keep and demolishing the wall would devastate the room He
explained that his home is on a cul-de-sac and in a private area, and did not think the
new garage would encroach any further into the easement than the previous garage
Commissioner Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight'sked staff if the currently approved garage plan was still valid
Director/Secretary Rojias answered that if the applicant has submitted plans to Building
and Safety plan check then the approval is still valid, however if the plans have not yet
been submitted to Building and Safety then the approval has expired, as approvals are
only good for 6 months. He noted, however that he could simply approve the plans
again.
Commissioner Tetreault re -opened the public hearing.
Commissioner Tetreault asked Mr Streeter what his objection was to building the
garage that was submitted to and approved by the Planning Department.
Mr. Streeter answered that to build that garage he would have to demolish a portion of
the wall connecting to his residence and it would destroy the room.
Commissioner Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he is a strong opponent to anyone encroaching into
the setbacks, however in this instance the property has quite a few unique issues. He
noted that this project was approved with the existing garage to remain, and the existing
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 5
garage encroached into the setback a certain amount He noted that the new garage is
proposed to encroach into the same setback an amount he did not feel was greater than
the pre-existing garage He felt that extensive review was done for the remodel of the
residence and everyone seemed to be satisfied with the mass of the house and the
setbacks with the pre-existing garage encroaching into the setback. He also felt that if
this design makes the structure of the housework better and the neighbors don't object,
then he would tend to be in favor of approving the proposed garage.
Commissioner Karp felt that this could be a backdoor approach by the applicant to get
the garage he wanted approved. He noted that this house is undergoing a complete
remodel and that cutting the garage back into the residence will most likely be costly,
but he did not feel it would be an undo burden
Commissioner Knight felt this was a clear case where he could not make at least three
of the four required findings noting that the applicant does have an option to build
another garage, and therefore, it is not necessary to approve the Variance to build the
proposed garage In addition, there is a reason for the setbacks as there is no sidewalk
in the area Therefore, he agreed with the recommendations of the staff report
Commissioner Tetreault noted that the house is situated on a cul-de-sac, there are no
sidewalks, and there is most likely very little foot traffic in the area. However, there are
reasons for setback requirements and it becomes problematic to ignore these
requirements when reasonable alternatives seem to be available He therefore agreed
with the recommendations in the staff report to deny the Variance
Commissioner Knight moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-26 as amended in
Section 1 of the Ordinance, thereby denying Variance Permit (Case No. 2004-
00108), seconded by Commissioner Karp. Approved, (3-1) with Commissioner
Gerstner dissenting.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:00 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8:05 pm. At which time
they reconvened
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00041): 27010 Spring Creek Rd
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, giving a brief history of the
project He explained that as a result of the Planning Commission's direction the
applicant has made several changes to his proposal, including reducing the structure
ndge height by one foot, reducing the addition by 213 square feet, increasing the rear
yard setback from 64 to 67 feet, and increasing the side yard setback for the third floor
from 5 feet to 9 feet. He displayed a picture on a power point slide depicting the
proposed changes to the plans He explained that staff had met with the neighbor, Ms
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 6
Kikuchi, and she had indicated that the proposed changes were moving in the right
direction, however she did not feel the changes went far enough to address all of her
concerns, noting that she still has a concern with the bulk and mass of the structure and
a concern with the privacy impacts caused by the structure He also explained that staff
spoke with Mr. Hughes who felt that the addition was moving in the right direction but
did not go far enough to meet his privacy concerns. He explained that should the
Planning Commission determine that the modifications are sufficient to address all of
their concerns, staff requests the Planning Commission articulate, for the record, the
reasons the neighborhood compatibility finding that can be made in a positive manner,
as staff was unable to make this finding He explained that based on the revised project
staff is seeking direction from the Planning Commission as to whether the project
adequately addresses the Commission's previous concerns with bulk and mass of the
structure If the Commission deems the revised project acceptable staff is
recommending the Planning Commission approve the height variation, as modified
Commissioner Karp noted that he was not at the meeting when this project was
discussed and asked if he could participate in the discussions at this meeting.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that if he could state for the record that he had
reviewed the minutes or the tape of the previous meeting, then he could participate in
this hearing.
Commissioner Karp stated that he had read the minutes from the previous meeting. He
then asked staff if this was considered a two-story or a three-story house and how that
was defined
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that, as stories are defined by Code, this
house could be considered a three-story house even though no portion of the house
exceeds two stories. He explained that the first story is the garage, the second story is
the residence, and the proposed upper floor addition is considered the third story
However, no portion of the residence exceeds what appears to be a two-story house
and the basis of Staffs original concern with the project did not stem from it having
three stories.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the back of the proposed addition extends beyond the
farthest rear portion of Ms Kikuchi's house
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the proposed project does not extend as
far back as Ms Kikuchi's house.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the side windows then look into the side yard of Ms.
Kikuchi's house and not directly into her backyard.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that looking straight out of the side windows
one would look into Ms. Kikuchi's side yard
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 7
Commissioner Tetreault opened the public hearing,
Luis de Moraes 27010 Springcreek Road (applicant) stated that he and his wife have
spent quite a bit of time reviewing the project and have been able to speak with all of
the neighbors with the exception of the Kikuchis who, after five attempts, he was unable
to reach. He explained that, to address the Commission's concerns regarding the bulk
of the house, he pushed the addition back and lowered the ridge one foot. Regarding
the issues of privacy, he cut the length of the upper level by five feet creating a greater
distance to the neighbors He also stated that he would use clearstory windows or
obscure glass in the closet window and bathroom. He did not think that this addition
should be considered a third story and did not think it was in the Code He felt that he
has made a reasonable effort to comply with the concerns of the Planning Commission
and his neighbors and asked the Planning Commission to consider his revisions and
approve the project
Commissioner Gerstner stated that the Planning Commission has received several
letters regarding the side windows and asked Mr. de Moraes to explain where the
windows are located and what he proposes to do with the windows
Mr. de Moraes explained that he has proposed to make the windows in the side area
either clearstory or obscure glass, noting that the windows are in the closet and
bathroom and will be used for ventilation and light.
Stephanie de Moraes 27010 Springcreek Road stated that she was happy with the
original design of the addition but is even happier with the revised plan. She stated that
the natural crest of the hill has already given her an amazing city and ocean view and
they were simply trying to add more space in their living quarters to accommodate the
family needs. She stated that privacy is a non -issue and she is not concerned with what
her neighbors are doing. However, she respects their concerns and that is why the
windows have been made clearstory or obscure glass. She stated that they plan to
plant trees to also help with the privacy issues.
Mark Olsen 26927 Springcreek Road stated he was representing the 10 to 12 neighbors
that support the project. He felt that the applicant was addressing the needs of the
entire neighborhood, noting that there is a challenge in this neighborhood to increase
the square footage of the homes while still remaining aesthetically pleasing to the
neighborhood.
Commissioner Tetreault asked Mr. Olsen where he lives in relation to the applicant
Mr. Olsen stated that he lives six houses down the block on the opposite side of the
street.
Jeffrey Sax 333 S. Hope Street, L.A. stated that he is the attorney representing the
Kikuchi family. He stated that the Kikuchis are in favor of improvement of the
neighborhood but it is the question of methodology and how one goes about it and the
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 8
impact to the neighbors He stated that it has been his experience in the past, and is
consist with what is happening now, that neighbors who are not immediately adjacent to
the improvement are generally in favor of it because it increases their property values
However the neighbors who are directly affected by the project are the ones who should
have more consideration given to their concerns, as they have to live with it day after
day He felt that if the applicant wants more space there is room in the backyard on the
first floor to make more living space He did not think that the applicant should not be
allowed to add a third floor at the expense of the neighbor's privacy, Tight issues, etc.
He explained that if one stands down below and look up at the structure, whether or not
there is a privacy issue, it is perceived that way and it is a very uncomfortable feeling
Regarding the sidewalls, he would prefer skylights, however the clearstory windows
would be acceptable However, it is the rear facing windows where one can see into
the Kikuchi backyard very clearly and there should be made some adjustment made on
privacy concerns there. Finally, he stated his concern regarding the planting of trees on
the applicant's property, as they may impact the lighting and increase the imposing
nature of the property
Commissioner Gerstner asked for clarification from staff as to whether the applicant had
proposed clearstory and/or obscure glass for the rear windows.
Associate Planner Blumenthal noted the applicant has proposed mitigating measures to
all four windows.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that these included the rear windows and asked Mr. Sax
if this was satisfactory
Mr Sax answered that it is vague, but on the surface it would appear so, as it has not
been addressed specifically in the plans, application, or the staff report. He requested
that it be more specifically presented so that he knew exactly what was being proposed
Robert Beck 3828 Carson Street, Torrance stated that he is the attorney representing
Mr. and Mrs. Hughes of 26951 Whitestone He explained that the Hughes have a very
small but private backyard He felt that the proposed third story addition would deprive
the Hughes of their privacy in their backyard area. He stated that he has reviewed the
staff report and minutes from the May 11th meeting and feels this issue comes down to
one of neighborhood compatibility He noted that the average house size in the
neighborhood is approximately 2,276 square feet, making the proposed house 151
percent larger than the average home in the neighborhood Further, he did not feel the
architectural style of the home was compatible with the neighborhood, as it is a three-
story house. He felt that the Planning Commission should be aware that they might be
setting a precedent if this addition is approved.
Commissioner Knight asked staff to clarify what type of windows is being proposed for
the four windows in the side and back yard
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 9
Associate Planner Blumenthal replied that the plans show the windows will be clearstory
windows, additionally Condition No 14 of the Resolution specifies that the windows are
to be removed, clearstory, or translucent glass
Mr. Beck did not realize that the windows from the master bedroom on the north
elevation would be clearstory or translucent glass
Commissioner Knight noted that there would be one window from the master bedroom
that would be a regular window, and asked Mr. Beck if that would present a problem to
his client.
Mr. Beck felt that would impose an infringement of privacy to his client In addition, the
applicant has added an outside balcony which will add more intrusion of his client's
privacy
Commissioner Gerstner explained that he did not visit the Hughes' property and asked if
from the Hughes' property one could see down into any part of the backyard of the
applicant's property '
Mr. Beck believed that one could see the applicant's house but not the backyard from
the Hughes' residence. He pointed out that the Height Variation Guidelines state that
greater weight shall 136 given to the outdoor privacy issues.
Frank Buzard 26961 $pringcreek Road stated that he recently walked in a nearby
neighborhood that he remembered being mostly single story homes, which now was a
neighborhood of large'two-story homes. He felt that the applicant has worked hard to
make his proposed addition compatible with the neighborhood and address the
concerns of the neighbors, however he wondered if Springcreek Road would begin to
look like the neighboring areas if this addition and others like it were approved He
noted that there are at least 20 homes in the neighborhood that would benefit from
building a large addition to have a better view of downtown and the ocean
Mr. de Moraes (in rebuttal) felt it was unfortunate that some of his neighbors did not feel
he had gone far enough to satisfy their concerns and felt the only way they would be
satisfied would be if he didn't do the addition at all He stated that he can currently see
the Hughes residence from his home and that has not created a problem, as he does
not care to look up 60 feet at the home. He stated that he has made several attempts to
contact the Kikuchis with no success. He stated that he did not know what else to do,
as he did not think his neighbors wanted to see any changes in the neighborhood, and
felt he had presented a very reasonable compromise.
Commissioner Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tetreault asked staff if the applicant has formally presented his proposal
to add screening foliage
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 10
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the applicant had mentioned in his letter
his intent to use foliage towards the rear of the property for screening purposes.
However, any such foliage would be subject to the view restoration process.
Commissioner Tetreault asked staff if there was a finding for privacy on any property or
was it only for adjacent properties.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the finding for privacy states that it is for
abutting properties. Therefore, staff focused its review on the Kikuchi property rather
than the Hughes property, as the applicant does not share a property line with the
Hughes.
Commissioner Tetreault asked if the distance between properties is taken into
consideration when addressing privacy concerns.
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that distance between properties is not usually
taken into consideration, as the finding language specifically states "abutting
properties".
Commissioner Karp was concerned about allowing a three-story house in the
neighborhood, however he understood the need for larger houses for growing families.
He was concerned that if the City begins to limit the expansion of houses,
neighborhoods may become obsolete and people will tend not to live there However,
he noted that there is some balance that needs to occur, but did not know if allowing a
three-story home was the appropriate action to take He stated that he would like to
hear the comments of the other Commissioners before making a decision.
Commissioner Knight appreciated the efforts of the applicant to address the bulk and
mass and architectural style of the home, however he did not think the current proposal
meets his criteria for the neighborhood compatibility finding. He noted that the
neighborhood consists of ranch style, split level homes and this is definitely a deviation
from that style He felt that if the applicant felt he needed additional square footage, he
could further explore adding more toward the backside of the house.
Commissioner Gerstner explained that he was struck by how diminutive this house
currently looks, noting it has lower roof lines than the houses around it. He stated that
one of the concerns of the Kikuchis' is that this proposed addition will block the light
coming into their property, and the Planning Commission suggested the applicant pull
the second story away from the Kukuchi property to mitigate that problem. He felt that
this is what the applicant did by pulling the second story away from the Kikuchi property,
reduced the size of the second story addition, and moved the stairs more towards the
center of the property He felt that the applicant has done quite a bit to bring the house
as close as it reasonably can be to satisfying all of the concerns while still having some
amount of space on the upper level. He did not think there was any more the applicant
could reasonably do, other than eliminate the upper story, to mitigate the concerns any
further Regarding the privacy issues, he felt that this house starts with Tess of a privacy
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 11
issue than many of the houses that the Planning Commission has approved. He felt
that the Hughes may be able to look down into the Kikuchi property more than the
applicant will be able to and he did not feel that the applicant looking up into the Hughes
property created a significant privacy concern. He discussed the issue of the three-
story home, noting that this would not be three stories stacked one right on top of
another and the highest part of it is not going higher than what the code allows He
therefore felt this proposed addition falls well within the guidelines and could approve
the project.
Commissioner Tetreault agreed with Commissioner Gerstner's comments and was
pleased that the applicant was able to address the Planning Commission's concerns.
He felt that the revisions to the plans have addressed his concerns regarding privacy
and have mitigated the appearance of bulk and mass of the house. He noted that the
house has three levels, but does not appear as a traditional three-story structure, noting
that the total height is within the code guidelines. He did not think this would open up
the floodgates to everyone building three-story homes in the neighborhood. In terms of
neighborhood compatibility, he noted that the proposed home is larger than others in
the neighborhood, but felt that a lot of effort has been put forth by the applicant to
reduce the apparent bulk and mass of the structure so that is not as imposing as it could
be He also felt that an effort has been made to make the house blend into the
neighborhood. He therefore felt that he could approve the project.
Commissioner Karp stated that the point that addressed his concern was that it is a
three-story home, however the floors are not stacked on top of each other and it does
not exceed the height limit Therefore, his inclination was to approve the project
Commissioner Gerstner moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-27, thereby
approving the Height Variation (Case No. ZON2004-00041) as amended, seconded
by Commissioner Karp. Approved, (3-1) with Commissioner Knight dissenting.
ADJOURNMENT
As Commissioner Gerstner had to leave the meeting, the meeting was adjourned
at 9:00 p.m. due to the lack of a quorum and Agenda Items 2, 3, 6, and 7 were
continued to the June 22, 2004 Planning Commission meeting.
Planning Commission Minutes
June 8, 2004
Page 12