PC MINS 20040511CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 11, 2004
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
June 2
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mueller at 7:00 p.m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Van Wagner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Gerstner, Knight, Tetreault, Van Wagner, Vice Chair Cote,
and Chairman Mueller
Absent Commissioner Karp was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Deputy
Director Pfost, Associate Planner Blumenthal, Assistant Planner Yu, and Recording
Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed two items of correspondence for Agenda Item No.
4 He also reported that at the last City Council meeting the Ordinance clarifying the
Height Variation Guidelines and the by -right height limit was adopted and the City
Council heard an appeal of a View Restoration Permit and upheld the Planning
Commission's decision.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. View Restoration Permit No. 123: 28541 Palos Verdes Drive East
Director/Secretary Rojas presented the staff report, explaining staff was recommending
continuance of the item to the May 25, 2004 meeting to allow staff time for additional
research He noted that the Planning Commission would be receiving the packet with
the staff report later in the evening.
Chairman Mueller noted that it was important for the Planning Commission to receive
the staff report as soon as it is ready, noting that it would be important to have the staff
report in the event there are speakers on the item, as the Planning Commission will
make the decision as to whether or not an item is continued.
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the public hearing to May 25, 2004,
seconded by Commissioner Van Wagner. Continued, (6-0).
2. Review of the City Tree Review Permit process (Case ZON2004-00160)
Director/Secretary Rojas presented the staff report, explaining that staff needs time to
work with the City Attorney to incorporate the suggestions of the Planning Commission
from the last meeting into the draft language
Chairman Mueller noted that he was not at the last meeting to give his input on this
item, however he had reviewed the tape and read the minutes, and felt there were many
good points that were brought up He wanted to take the opportunity to give some input
and asked Vice Chair Cote, who was also absent from the last meeting, if she had any
input she would like to include
Vice Chair Cote stated that she too had reviewed the tape of the meeting and was
interested to see the staff recommended language based on the input from the Planning
Commission, and would reserve her comments until she could review the proposed
amendments
Chairman Mueller asked staff to clarify the budget for the City Tree Review Permit
process
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the numbers in the staff report reflect the
budget for the contract trimmers to do the trimming of city trees and do not account for
the time expended by staff to do the analysis and monitor the trimming decision He
noted that the current process does not include a fee to the applicant.
Chairman Mueller discussed the idea of imposing a fee for the City Tree Review
process, and asked staff for clarification.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that last year the City Council had looked at this
issue from a budget perspective and directed staff to establish a fee that would cover
staffs time for these applications, and noted a citywide fee study has been conducted to
assess all City fees to make sure there is adequate recovery of cost to cover expenses.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 2
Chairman Mueller felt that if an applicant could prove the City's foliage grew into their
view after 1989, the City should act like any good resident and be responsible for
maintaining the view that was established and not charge a fee
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that anything to do with fees in this situation would
solely be the purview of the City Council, as they are the body that establishes fees
Chairman Mueller stated that he would reserve any further questions and comments
until the time the item comes back to the Planning Commission with language that can
be reviewed.
Vice Chair Cote moved to continue the public hearing to May 25, 2004, seconded
by Commissioner Gerstner. Continued, (5-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Conditional Use Permit — Revision "A" and Grading Permit (Case No.
ZON2004-00043): 450 Silver Spur Road
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the project and
noting that the existing drive-through ATM area is located within the building footprint on
the first floor of an existing office building, and as such, the grading and enclosure will
not alter the existing building's envelope in terms of height and footprint. She stated
that staff could make all of the necessary findings, and was therefore recommending
approval of the project, with the conditions included in the staff report.
Commissioner Knight asked staff to clanfy why, in this particular situation with no walls
on two sides, the ATM area was considered as part of the building footpnnt.
Assistant Planner Yu explained that because there is a building above the ATM area,
the enclosure would be considered part of the building footprint since the new enclosed
area would be located underneath the existing building.
Commissioner Knight asked staff if they knew how much of the common wall shown on
the plans would be demolished
Assistant Planner Yu answered that it appears from the floor plan that it is just a
doorway that will be demolished. She stated that the structural integrity of the building
will be reviewed by the Building and Safety Department as part of the plan check
process.
Commissioner Knight noted that the Conditional Use Permit originally had a Variance to
allow for less parking, and asked if the Variance is still necessary.
Assistant Planner Yu explained that the Variance was no longer necessary, as at the
time the site was developed the requirements for parking spaces was more stringent
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 3
than the current code. She explained that staff analyzed the parking spaces based on
the current code and determined there was adequate parking at the site.
Chairman Mueller reviewed Condition No 12 and asked if it was common practice to
require an accurate grading plan prior to submittal to Building and Safety, or would the
common practice be to wait until that plan is submitted before approving the project
Assistant Planner Yu answered that it was common practice to have an accurate
grading plan prior to approval of the project, however in this situation the applicant
happened to use the plans for construction of the original building as the base plan to
demonstrate the enclosure, and the plans seem to include the grading for the original
building that was done outside the building footprint. Since staff noticed this after the
public notices had been sent, staff was requiring that prior to submittal to Building and
Safety the applicant submit plans that show that there is no grading proposed outside of
the building footprint.
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Jerry Sturm 2275 W 25th Street, San Pedro, stated he was the architect for the project
and available for any questions
Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Sturm if he understood the condition that accurate plans
be submitted to the Planning Department prior to submittal to Building and Safety
Mr Sturm answered that he understood the condition
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-20 thereby
approving Conditional Use Permit — Revision "A" and Grading Permit Case No.
ZON2004-00043 as presented by staff, seconded by Vice Chair Cote. Approved,
(5-0).
4. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00041): 27010 Springcreek Rd
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and showing pictures on a power point presentation. He showed pictures taken
from the neighbors' properties and explained that staff had determined there would be
no significant view impairment from these homes, as the proposed addition would only
be blocking the views of other homes and Springcreek Road. He explained that staff
had concerns regarding neighborhood compatibility of the proposed addition He stated
that staff had a concern with the privacy finding and the neighbor at 27002 Spnngcreek
Road and that the neighbors had privacy concerns from their bathroom and backyard
He explained that the bathroom has translucent louver windows and therefore staff did
not feel there was a privacy impact to the house Furthermore, he explained that the
Height Variation Guidelines state that greater weight be given to outdoor privacy He
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 4
stated that when looking from the backyard, staff noted that with the new 3rd story there
will be an additional area of visual observation that the applicant currently does not
have, notably from the three windows on the east side of the house and one window on
the north side of the house that will allow the applicant to look into the neighbor's yard
He explained that, if the project is approved, staff was recommending a condition of
approval be added that these windows either be removed, be clearstory windows, or be
of translucent glass. In conclusion, Mr Blumenthal explained that staff does not feel
this proposed addition is compatible with the existing neighborhood, and as such, was
recommending the Planning Commission deny, without prejudice, the proposed height
variation.
Vice Chair Cote noted that staff's concerns with architectural design seemed to be in
relation to the proposed third story, and asked staff if they had any other concerns with
the architectural design of the project
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that staff was concerned about breaking from
the standard design in the neighborhood of California Ranch and split-level homes and
going to the two-story stepped structure proposed by the applicant
Vice Chair Cote asked staff if they were concerned with the bulk and mass of the house,
and what the applicant had done to mitigate these concerns.
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the proposed upper addition was pushed
back away from the street and the addition of the balcony on the upper floor near the
street helped mitigate the bulk and mass concerns of the residence. Furthermore, the
applicant is proposing a roof pitch of 1 1/2: 1 which helps reduce the apparent size of the
structure
Commissioner Van Wagner asked staff if they still had concerns about the proposed
size of the addition.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff was concerned about the overall size
of the structure
Commissioner Knight noted that one of the neighbors had an objection to the proposed
addition because it would block some of their sunlight, and asked staff if there was any
code addressing this issue
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that there is no code addressing the protection
of solar access rights.
Referring to a picture, Chairman Mueller asked about the view issue from 27016
Springcreek Road, asking staff to explain the view from this property and why the view
was considered to be in the periphery of the view frame
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May 11, 2004
Page 5
Director/Secretary Rojas explained the view frame as seen from this photograph, and
noted that the mountains that would be impacted were on the edge of the view frame as
opposed to being in the middle of the view frame That, in addition to the small
percentage of impact led staff to conclude that the impact is not significant. He also
noted that the code states the view should be assessed irrespective of foliage.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that the proposed residence would be approximately
3,600 square feet when finished, and asked staff if, in their opinion, there was another
way to get a 3,600 square foot home on this property and address some of the
concerns raised by staff
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that in staff's opinion there were Tess obtrusive
ways to add an addition to the home, but was not sure if the resulting home would be
3,600 square feet. He noted that there are other areas on the property where there is a
potential for an addition, however staff had not reviewed any of these options
Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Luis DeMoraes 27010 Springcreek Road (applicant) explained that before starting the
project he had met with his neighbors to discuss the least intrusive way to obtain his
desired addition, and concluded that stacking the upper level over the lower level of the
house, further back from the house, would cause no view impairment. In terms of
privacy, he noted that the house has been designed to have the least number of
windows possible near his neighbor's property He understood the staff's concerns
regarding style and mass and showed several pictures of houses in the neighborhood
with two-story additions, noting that in terms of compatibility and style he was very
successful in his proposal. He understood the concerns of his neighbors, however, and
showed pictures of a design he felt was a reasonable compromise He noted that on
the upper level the redesigned plan was reduced 5 feet in the back, which would be a
reduction of 100 square feet. He also stated that he was proposing to reduce 3 feet on
the lower level for a reduction of 120 square feet, for a cumulative total reduction of 220
square feet He also showed that the new proposal would drastically reduce the mass
on the side yard facing his neighbor Along with the reduction, he was proposing a drop
in the ridgehne of one foot, which would be accomplished, by dropping the plate height
and reducing the length of the building With that, he felt that he had made more than a
reasonable effort to accommodate the neighbors concerns.
Commissioner Van Wagner asked Mr. DeMoraes if this was now a different project from
what was addressed in the staff report
Mr. DeMoraes answered that this is a different project
Commissioner Knight asked Mr DeMoraes if he would be willing to remove or alter the
rear windows to address the neighbor's privacy concerns
Mr DeMoraes answered that he would be willing to alter or remove those windows.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 6
Vice Chair Cote asked staff if they had an opportunity to review these revised plans and
how this would affect their recommendations
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that staff had not previously seen these revisions and
therefore could not comment on how this would affect the staff's recommendations for
the project. He acknowledged, however, that the revised plans did seem to address
some of staff's concerns.
Commissioner Tetreault noted that this revision will change the silhouette of the project,
and asked if this now requires a new silhouette be constructed and the process starts
over with the notification process
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that it would be staffs recommendation that the
public hearing be continued so that the applicant can prepare the new plans and
present them to staff and adjust the silhouette accordingly, noting that at this point it
would be considered a revised application.
Rex Holloway 26930 Springcreek Road stated he was speaking in favor of the plan, and
noted that the proposed changes seem appropriate He felt that a building owner
should be able to enjoy their property and build according to whatever rules are set
forth, which he felt Mr. DeMoraes has done
Commissioner Gerstner asked Mr. Holloway if he has always been in favor of the
project or if the current changes have swayed his opinion
Mr. Holloway answered that he has always felt that the proposed project would be a
benefit to the neighborhood.
Mark Olsen 26927 Springcreek Road stated that the homes in his neighborhood are all
from the 1960's and the key to any addition is to have it look like it fits into the
neighborhood. He felt the applicant was trying to make his home look beautiful and
pleasing aesthetically, which would only increase the value of the other homes in the
neighborhood and make it a more desirable neighborhood to live in He stated that he
was very much in favor of the proposed project, with or without the revisions
Joe Serritella 27117 Springcreek Road felt that the proposed addition was compatible
with the neighborhood, as there are other two-story homes in the neighborhood and this
one would be much more attractive than any of the others He felt that the
neighborhood was in transition and there are many families in the neighborhood with
children and they need bigger homes He felt this was a very attractive addition that
would lend itself favorably to the neighborhood
Stephanie DeMoraes 27010 Springcreek Road stated that her husband has served as a
Commissioner on the View Restoration Commission and is very sensitive to the needs
of the neighborhoods views. She stated that many of the neighbors are very supportive
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 7
of her proposed addition and agreed that the neighborhood is in transition and that the
needs of the neighborhood have changed
John Crump 27028 Whitestone Road stated that he has seen the proposed plans and
felt that the addition will provide a greater functionality for the family without changing
the character of the neighborhood. He stated that many homes in the neighborhood
have already been remodeled or enlarged in some fashion. He was confident that the
proposed addition would only enhance, improve, and upgrade the look of the
neighborhood
Steve Chelebian 27034 Whitestone Road stated that he was very much in favor of the
proposed project and that the neighborhood is changing.
Charles Moore 27007 Whitestone Road complimented the applicant on his suggested
revisions He stated that his major objection to the project is that it violates the nature
and style of the home as designed by the original architect. He felt that the monstrous
addition will stand out as a three-story home in an area of one and two-story homes and
is not, in his opinion, compatible with the neighborhood He felt this might, in the long
run, perpetrate other additions that are not desirable and would like the Planning
commission and staff to examine a plan view and elevation to see what the applicant
could do to extend the addition at the existing rear yard level from his existing structure,
as he has seen other homeowners with the same type of home expand in that manner
Bill Hughes 26951 Whitestone Road stated he was opposed to the project and his main
concern was that of privacy He showed photographs taken from his home and
explained that currently he has privacy at the back of his home and none of the
neighbors has the opportunity to see into the back of his home He explained that the
proposed addition would be built at what is his ground level and is very close to his
home, only a half a lot away He stated that the applicant would have a line of sight
view into his kitchen, living room, and family room He also noted that the windows on
the applicant's addition would be view windows and therefore would not be likely to
have window coverings on them and these windows would look directly into his back
yard. He explained that to maintain his privacy he could plant a hedge in his backyard,
however in doing so the hedge would block his own view
Vice Chair Cote asked what the distance was between Mr Hughes's property and the
applicant's proposed addition.
Associate Planner Blumenthal showed an aerial photograph of the two properties and
estimated the distance to be approximately 100 feet
Vice Chair Cote asked staff if the windows staff had recommended be removed or be
translucent windows were the same windows that Mr Hughes had a concern about.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 8
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that the windows staff was referring to were
the rear windows and the window above the toilet area. He explained that Mr. Hughes
was concerned with the view windows towards the front of the proposed project
Sally Kikuchi 27002 Springcreek Road felt that if the applicant needs more space that
there is potential to expand the house in the backyard without going up She explained
that where he home is located the proposed addition would block all of their sunlight on
that side of the house and they would lose the privacy in the backyard
Commissioner Van Wagner asked Ms Kikuchi her opinion on the staff report's
recommendations to mitigate the privacy issues in the backyard
Ms. Kikuchi answered that she did not know if it would mitigate the concern or not.
Commissioner Knight asked Ms Kikuchi if she had been consulted during the early
neighborhood consultation process and if she had seen the plans
Ms Kikuchi answered that she was not consulted during the early neighborhood
consultation process and had not had the opportunity to see the plans.
Commissioner Gerstner asked Ms. Kikuchi her opinion of the proposed changes
presented by the applicant.
Ms. Kikuchi answered that she was pleased with the reduction but felt she would need
to see the silhouette change to better understand the changes She still felt it would be
better to keep the addition on the ground level rather than be a two-story
Frank Buzard 29691 Springcreek Road stated that many years ago he too had to
increase the size of his home to accommodate his Targe family, however he did so by
moving out the backyard rather than building up. He stated that his objection to the
project was that the house was too large and was not in keeping with the other houses
in the neighborhood and will overwhelm the other homes in the neighborhood.
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr Buzard his opinion on the proposed revisions presented by
the applicant.
Mr Buzard answered that he would have to see some type of revised silhouette before
he could form an opinion
Jay Luedde 27120 Springcreek Road stated that he was very happy to have a project
such as this move forward to improve the neighborhood. He noted that the
neighborhood was changing and this was a favorable change to the neighborhood
Luis DeMoraes (in rebuttal) stated that he is very sensitive to the views in the
neighborhood, and noted that he has never been able to make contact with his neighbor
to the north In response to adding into his backyard, he showed a picture of the area
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 9
and noted that there is only 25 feet left in his backyard once he does his current
proposal, and if he goes any further back he will have no backyard because of the
hillside He stated that he has done everything and studied every angle possible to
cause the least possible impact to anyone of the neighborhood He respectfully
requested that the Planning Commission approve the project with conditions added to
address their concerns
Commissioner Van Wagner asked if the revised plan addresses the privacy concerns of
the neighbors.
Mr. DeMoraes explained that pushing the house back five feet also pushes back the
windows, which will increase the privacy He stated that he does not have an objection
to putting the windows up higher, he just needs a little ventilation in the rooms.
Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Vice Chair Cote suggested, since there has been a revision proposed by the applicant
and the Planning Commission has not had the opportunity to hear the concerns of the
neighbors, to continue the item and give the applicant feedback, comments, and issues
that are of concern which will allow an opportunity for a revised approach to the project.
Chairman Mueller agreed with the approach, adding that that the applicant seems
willing to modify the project He was reluctant to approve a project without having plans
and a silhouette that matches the new proposal He was still concerned with
neighborhood compatibility, noting that it is not so much the size but the way the house
does or does not fit ink) the neighborhood. He felt there was room to expand into the
backyard as well as other possible alternatives and options.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 9:00 p.m. Chairman Mueller left the meeting, leaving Vice Chair Cote as the acting
Chair The Planning Commission took a short recess until 9:10 p m
PUBLIC HEARINGS (cont)
Commissioner Van Wagner stated he was in agreement with the Vice Chair and the
Chairman in continuing this item to allow the applicant to make some revisions. He
encouraged the applicant and the neighbors to get together and discuss their concerns
He stated that he could not fully assess the project without seeing the revised plans, the
staff report, and the new silhouette
Commissioner Tetreault stated that his concern was mainly with neighborhood
compatibility, noting that one of his major concerns was regarding the north elevation,
which is the wall facing the neighbor at 27002 Springcreek Road. He noted that it is not
uncommon to have two-story homes in the neighborhood, however noted that in most
homes the second story is on the up-slope side of the property which lessens the
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 10
impact on the next home upslope He noted that this proposal has the second story
proposed on the down slope portion of the property which he felt will have a very
pronounced effect on the home below it. He felt that a way to mitigate this may be to
add some articulation back of the second story from the first story footprint, which he felt
would also reduce the appearance of bulk and mass and reduce the impact to the
neighbor directly to the south He noted that he did not think the Planning Commission
could make a decision on this project without seeing a new silhouette and accurate
plans.
Commissioner Knight agreed with Commissioner Tetreault's comments. He asked staff
if they felt there was enough room in the backyard to add on without having to make the
structure a two-story structure.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that there is enough room to meet setback
requirements because of the slope of the property, but noted that there would also be
the possibility of a hillside setback requirement based on the height of the slope
Commissioner Knight agreed with staff's analysis in terms of neighborhood
compatibility, noting he did not think it was compatible with any of the architectural
styles or elevations in the neighborhood and was not sure if the proposed changes
would address this concern. He agreed that the item should be continued.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that the homes in the neighborhood will change to meet the
changing needs of the residents. He felt there needed to be more dialogue between the
applicant and the immediate neighbors, even if it is not fruitful He did not think that all
of the desires of those opposed could be physically met by some simple changes He
agreed that a decision could not be made without a change to the silhouette and revised
plans. He concluded by stating that it is the right of the homeowners to build houses
that comply with the code and he believed that the neighborhood is changing, and
therefore he would not oppose some growth in the neighborhood.
Vice Chair Cote stated that the Planning Commission has to make certain specific
findings to approve a project. She agreed that the early neighborhood consultation did
take place, noting that the process does not require 100 percent participation She felt
that the neighbor at 27002 Springcreek is the most impacted and supported the
comments made that the applicant and neighbor try to make sure some communication
is made. Regarding view, she did not think there was any view issue to be addressed,
and agreed with the staff's recommendation that the view impact is not significant. She
felt there was a concern regarding neighborhood compatibility She explained that she
never looks just at the numbers, but rather she goes to the site to see how the proposed
addition is placed on the property and how the proposed addition is articulated to not
appear massive or bulky She felt that the north wall had a massive, bulky appearance
from the neighbor's side of the property She was intrigued by the suggestion of moving
the addition to the uphill side of the property to mitigate some of the neighbor's
concerns She too felt that the project had to have a new silhouette and revised plans,
as she did not think the proposed modifications before the Planning Commission
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 11
address the concerns of the Commission. She asked staff if there would be issues with
the Permit Streamlining Act if the project is continued
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the deadline per the Permit Streamlining Act is
May 31, and suggested that if it is the Commission's inclination to continue the item that
the item be continued to June 8, which will be contingent upon the silhouette being
changed and the plans submitted prior to May 26th. Further, there has to be a verbal
agreement from the applicant to extend the Permit Streamlining deadline.
Vice Chair Cote re -opened the public hearing.
Vice Chair Cote asked Mr. DeMoraes if he will be able to revise the plans and erect the
new silhouette by May 26th, and if he will be willing to agree to the extension of the
Permit Streamlining Act deadline
Mr DeMoraes agreed to the extension, but asked the Planning Commission to clarify
their concerns regarding the north wall of the proposed addition He stated that he
cannot lower that wall any further and did not think moving the addition to the other side
of the residence would look very good. He stated that the lower portion of the house is
the north side and was concerned that moving the addition to that side will make it
higher than it is currently proposed
Vice Chair Cote stated that she would not recommend a continuation of a heanng if she
felt that a complete redesign was required, and would in those instances agree with the
staff recommendation to deny the project She felt that in this situation Mr. DeMoraes
had made enough changes in his proposal to indicate he was willing to head in the right
direction, but the Planning Commission and neighbors need to see the silhouette and
the plans to understand the changes.
Commissioner Tetreault agreed with the Vice Chairman, adding that his main concern
was with the north wall and that often times that can be remedied by some slight
articulation to reduce the bulk and mass and the impact to the neighbor below
Commissioner Gerstner felt that the applicant was on the right path and some minor
modifications could be made to help address the concerns of the neighbors He agreed
with Mr DeMoraes that moving the addition to the other side would not satisfy the
Commissioners concerns regarding bulk and mass and neighborhood compatibility.
Commissioner Knight encouraged the applicant to explore shifting some of the bulk and
mass of the second story addition on the north side to the south side of the addition, as
he felt that may relieve some of the bulk and mass issues
Commissioner Van Wagner emphasized to the applicant and neighbor to get together
and explore the possibilities of addressing the concerns.
Vice Chair Cote closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 12
Commissioner Knight moved to continue the public hearing to June 8, 2004 with
the direction to the applicant to revise the project to address the concerns of the
Planning Commission, seconded by Commissioner Van Wagner. Continued, (5-
0).
NEW BUSINESS
5. Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00201): 2950 Twin Harbors View Drive
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, giving a brief background on the
project and explaining that the Conditional Use Permit for the residential component of
the project outlines all of the development standards for the residences for the project
and therefore if the houses are designed within the standards already approved within
the CUP the houses can be approved as an administrative process and do not require
discretionary review He explained that in April 2004 the City Council approved a
revision to the CUP which allows some additional habitable area within the homes
provided it be within a sub-terrainean basement area. He stated that at this time the
applicant is proposing a total of five of the units within the tract and Tots 1 and 5 are on
the agenda. He explained that lots 1 and 5 require Planning Commission review as the
applicant is proposing a basement and the amount of grading exceeds 1,000 cubic
yards, as per the Conditional Use Permit. He stated that the Planning Commission is
considering only the grading for the proposed basement and does not need to review
the residential structure, as it complies with the conditions of the Conditional Use
Permit He stated that staff feels the Grading Permit meets all of the criteria for
approval, and therefore recommends approval
Commissioner Knight asked staff how close the basement will be to the edge of the cliff
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the basement will not be any closer than 35 feet,
as that is the setback in that area
Commissioner Knight asked what the depth of the light well would be
Deputy Director Pfost did not know that answer, however noted that the architect was
present and could answer that question.
Commissioner Knight asked what type of windows would be in the Tight well
Deputy Director Pfost answered the window would be a slider and needs to provide
access out of the room.
Commissioner Knight asked if the fire escape ladder goes to the top of the handrail or to
the grade level.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 11, 2004
Page 13
Deputy Director Pfost suggested this question be asked to the applicant, and noted that
these types of issues would be reviewed for code compliance during the Building and
Safety plan check process.
Commissioner Knight asked if the height of the handrails would be three feet.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that detail was not on the plans, however the height of
the handrails is a UBC requirement that would be checked during Building and Safety
plan check.
Commissioner Knight asked where the roof over -hangs end in terms of the light wells
Deputy Director Pfost, in referring to the plans, felt the over -hang covered less than half
of the Tight well.
In terms of the soils report, Commissioner Knight asked if there was any information
included regarding the pH of the soil, radon content, sulfer content, or clay content.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the soils report has not yet been submitted,
however the soils report typically does include some type of chemical analysis and the
City Geologist will review the report for compliance
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff if this item was before the Planning Commission
because the quantity of grading exceeds the specific number in the code, and other
than that there is nothing presented that is inconsistent with the Conditional Use Permit
of the property.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the item was before the Commission because the
quantity of grading exceeds the threshold established in the CUP Conditions of
Approval
Vice Chair Cote opened the public hearing.
Jeff Kaplinski 1 Ocean Trails Drive (applicant) stated he was available for any questions
from the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Knight asked Mr. Kaplinski if the windows are fixed or can be opened
Mr. Kaplinski answered the windows are double sliders
Commissioner Knight asked if the fire escape ladder goes to the top of the handrail or
just to grade.
Mr Kaplinski answered that the ladder goes to grade
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May 11, 2004
Page 14
Commissioner Knight asked if the soils report would include information on the pH of
the soil, radon content, sulfer content, and clay content
Mr. Kaplinski answered that the soils report would include all of the necessary items to
be reviewed by the City to receive an approval.
Commissioner Knight asked about the drainage from the basement
Mr. Kaplinski answered that there are two sump pumps for the basement and both are
backed up by emergency generators
Vice Chair Cote closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-21 thereby
approving Grading Permit Case No. ZON2004-00201 as presented by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Gerstner. Approved, (4-1) with Commissioner Knight
dissenting.
6. Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2004-00202): 2990 Twin Harbors View Drive
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report stating that the only difference between
this and the previous item was that this project requires Tess grading, specifically1,210
cubic yards of grading
Commissioner Gerstner asked if this item was before the Planning Commission
because of the amount of grading, and if this grading quantity is Tess than what has
previously been approved by the City Council for another lot in the tract.
i
Deputy Director Pfost answered that was correct.
Vice Chair Cote opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Vice Chair Cote closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Knight explained that the reason he voted against the last item and the
reason he has an issue with this item was because of Finding No 9 which deals with
public safety, and that this was not an ordinary grading permit for a foundation, but
rather a request to create a subterranean, habitable space He felt the plans were not
detailed enough to show him the railings on one side where the light well is He
discussed problems with the sulfer content in the soil in this area which can be very
corrosive to concrete and makes it porous to moisture intrusion. He also explained that
he was not a fan of sump pumps when needed to create habitable space.
Commissioner Gerstner asked Commissioner Knight if his concern was with the
potential structural integrity of the concrete in the basement walls and retaining walls.
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May 11, 2004
Page 15
Commissioner Knight answered that was his concern along with issues of mold
problems because of the moisture and other issues relating to moisture. He explained
that was why he was concerned about the contents of the soils report and if the suffer
content would be addressed He explained that the sulfur can be converted to caustic
hydrogen sulfide and sulfuric acid and can cause damage as evidenced by the ACLAD
dewatering wells in Abalone Cove
Deputy Director Pfost stated that the soils report will be submitted to the City Geologist
and the chemical makeup of the soils is part of what the City Geologist reviews,
therefore he relies on the City Geologist during the Building and Safety plan check
process.
Vice Chair Cote re -opened the public hearing.
Jeff Kaplinski 1 Ocean Trails Drive explained that he will be using Type 5 concrete, as
recommended in the soils report, and the retaining walls and foundations will be water
proofed He was confident that all issues will be included in the soils report
Vice Chair Cote closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Van Wagner asked if this was the normal process to have the soils
report submitted after the public hearing before the Planning Commission.
Deputy Director Pfost explained this was not unusual in a Targe project such as this, as
there has already been extensive soils and geology work done to allow the residential
homes to be placed in this area He noted that the soil report in question will deal with
the specific individual lots.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2004-22 thereby
approving Grading Permit Case No. ZON2004-00202 as presented by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Van Wagner. Approved, (4-1) with Commissioner
Knight dissenting.
7. Definition of a hedge
Director/Secretary Rojas presented the staff report, explaining why this issue was
before the Planning Commission and explained the current definition of a hedge per the
City's Development Code. He explained that staff reviewed the language in Prop M
which says that if there is foliage that exceeds 16 feet or the ridgeline, whichever is
lower, and significantly impairs a view, it is subject to view protection through restoration
or preservation. As a result, he noted that there may be situations where there is
foliage Tess than 16 feet in height that blocks a view and may not be subject to view
restoration In further review of the hedge issue, staff was having difficulty in making a
distinction between hedges cut so that they are not a barrier at ground level but join
together over a person's head level versus trees that are spaced apart but whose
canopies happen to touch to form a dense wall of foliage. Both instances involve
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May 11, 2004
Page 16
foliage that is considered not a barrier and also not subject to Prop M because there is
an allowance in Prop M for certain vegetation to impair a view if it is Tess than 16 feet or
the ridgeline He acknowledged that there could be a clarification to the definition of a
barrier. He stated that staff was asking the Planning Commission whether to come
back with a more specific definition of a hedge. He added that Chairman Mueller
handed him his thoughts on the subject before he left and former Planning
Commissioner Clara Duran Reed also distributed her recommendations on the subject
Vice Chair Cote noted that Ms Duran Reed suggested the topic be clarified through an
interpretation rather than a Code amendment and asked staff their opinion
Director/Secretary Rojas explained there is an interpretation process through the code,
however he felt the City Attorney may feel that it is better to clarify the issue through a
code amendment, if possible. He also explained that if the Planning Commission
chooses to make a code amendment staff will have to go to the City Council to get their
affirmation, as all code amendments are initiated by the City Council
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff to clarify what the unique characteristics of a hedge
are versus those of a tree
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that a hedge is limited to 6 feet in height, depending
on where it is located on the property, and if it is not a hedge there is no height limit,
although its height could be reduced if it is subject to view preservation or restoration.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if this discussion was then concerned with the foliage
that was between 6 and 16 feet in height and if it was considered a hedge or a tree
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that was correct, although he also noted that there
is a section in the Code that allows hedges, in certain situations, to be up to 16 feet in
height, again provided it isn't subject to Prop M.
Commissioner Knight gave the example of a hedge in the front that is cleared so that a
person could walk through at 42 inches but is allowed to canopy at 43 inches, and
asked if that would be considered a barrier.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that is such a situation staff would say that since
one cannot walk through, it would be considered a barrier, and thus a hedge.
Vice Chair Cote recalled that at the meeting in October 2003 one of the reasons the
Planning Commission had directed staff to look at the definition of a hedge was
because at that time the Director had felt there might possibly be a loophole with
respect to the code definition of hedges She noted that in the staff report staff now felt
the situation noted was addressed by the City's View Restoration and Preservation
Ordinance and was not a loophole that should be addressed. She asked if staff was
asking the Planning Commission to give staff direction, if they felt there was a need to
better define "hedge" and initiate a code amendment.
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May 11, 2004
Page 17
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that was correct
Commissioner Knight felt that the Code works well as it is and there would be a problem
if the Code were to try to address what happens with foliage below 16 feet and above 6
feet in height He felt that to change the code to address the foliage below 16 feet, the
View Restoration Ordinance would have to be changed to comply He felt that the
physical barrier was a good test as he felt there was a nexus between what a hedge
can create and a wall, which is what the code is trying to address. He felt staff may
want to expand on what a physical barrier is, however he felt that the current system
works well and one would have to be very careful in changing the code on how it would
impact the View Restoration Ordinance
Commissioner Van Wagner was not convinced a code amendment was necessary, and
was concerned that there would be many possible ramifications if there was an
amendment to the View Restoration Ordinance
Commissioner Tetreault felt there were a number of potential hazards and problems in
amending the code He felt that this proposal was an attempt to reach out and capture
more view restoration opportunities and perhaps find more circumstances by which one
could get their view restored He felt that the challenges involved to fashion some sort
of change to the ordinance to make this work were enormous and did not think they
could be practically done He did not think that the changes were necessary and that
the current system seems to be working
Commissioner Gerstner understood the problem and the conditions that could exist that
might be objectionable to some people, however he felt it would be extremely difficult to
fashion something that would resolve that and felt it would come down to discussing
different densities of vegetation. Given the information he has, he did not think he could
make any reasonable suggestion to try to amend the code, however he would be open
to the suggestion that staff continue to think about how that situation would be resolved
However, he would only want that to happen if there are specific situations where this is
an issue and would want to know if there are conditions where the public thinks there is
a problem
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that there have been specific situation where this has
been an issue, including two that staff is currently dealing with.
Vice Chair Cote stated that she was involved in the original discussions in October and
felt there could be a loophole in the code, however after reading the staff report and
hearing the discussion from staff she agreed that there are Ordinances in place that
deal with the issue and protect the residences quite well She did not think there
needed to be any further definition of a physical barrier, as a physical barrier is a
physical barrier. Therefore she was satisfied with the Ordinances that are in place and
the guidance the Planning Commission has been using in order to determine a hedge
and did not see any reason to pursue this matter any further She noted that the
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May 11, 2004
Page 18
Chairman had left his written comments on the subject and asked staff to read those
comments.
Director/Secretary Rojas read Chairman Mueller's comments which stated that his
concern was that the City does not allow structures to be placed in the side or rear yard
setbacks without a Variance, but the Code allows trees or shrubbery to be up to 16 feet
or the ridgeline, whichever is lower, without so much as a Fence, Wall and Hedge
Permit He felt that this was the loophole and noted that the key is we are talking about
possible view obstruction in the side and rear yard setbacks, not just anywhere on the
lot, and it would seem that at some point a row of trees or shrubs becomes a hedge
should be subject to the Fence Wall and Hedge Permit provided it is located within the
side or rear yard setbacks. He felt that one possible approach would be to adopt the
following: if a contiguous row of trees or shrubbery forms a closed, non -open air fence-
like barrier and is located in the side or rear yard setback it shall be considered a hedge
and require a Fence, Wall, and Hedge Permit. For all other foliage, the View
Restoration Permit process shall apply.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the Commission could continue the item to the next
meeting to allow further discussion with Chairman Mueller or receive and file the staff
report and direct staff to take no further action on this matter
Commissioner Van Wagner moved to receive and file the report and take no
further action on the item, seconded by Commissioner Knight. Approved, (4-1)
with Commissioner Gerstner dissenting because there are specific situations
where this is an issue.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
8. Minutes of April 13, 2004
Commissioner Knight noted on page 14 of the minutes a comment he made regarding a
change to the previous meeting's minutes was not included and asked that it be
included
Commissioner Knight moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Tetreault. Approved, (5-0)
9. Minute of April 27, 2004
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that Chairman Mueller left a correction to page 8 of the
minutes in which he asked that a sentence be added to the third paragraph, which he
read into the record.
Commissioner Tetreault moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Van Wagner. Approved, (4-0-1) with Vice Chair Cote abstaining
since she was absent from that meeting.
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May 11, 2004
Page 19
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
10. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of Mav 25, 2004
The Planning Commission approved the Pre -Agenda, without objection.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:57 p m
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