PC MINS 20031211Approved
January 13, 04
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 11, 2003
The meeting was called to order by Vice Chairman Mueller at 7 08 p m at the Fred
Hesse Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Cote led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ATTENDANCE
Present Commissioners Cartwright, Lyon, Cote, and Vice Chairman Mueller
Absent Commissioner Duran Reed was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Mihranian, Associate Planner Blumenthal, Associate Planner Schonborn,
Project Coordinator Nelson, and Project Coordinator Alvarez
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the agenda as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright. Approved without objection.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed one item of correspondence for Agenda Item No. 4
and a copy of the Draft Minutes for the November 25, 2003 Meeting.
Director/Secretary Rojas reported the new Planning Commission is scheduled to be
appointed on January 20, 2004.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
CONSENT CALENDAR
I View Restoration Permit No. 116: 4222 Dauntless Drive and 4122 Dauntless
Drive
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P C Resolution No 2003-60, thereby
approving the View Restoration Permit No 116 as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (3-0-1) with Commissioner Cote abstaining since
she was not at the meeting when the item was discussed.
2. View Restoration Permit No. 138: 2 Paseo De Castana
Commissioner Lyon moved to adopt P C. Resolution No. 2003-61, thereby
approving the View Restoration Permit No. 138 as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (3-0-1) with Commissioner Cote abstaining
since she was not at the meeting when the item was discussed
CONTINUED BUSINESS:
3- Code amendment to clarify the application of the 16 -foot height limit and
the view findings for height variation and grading applications (Case No.
ZON2003-00417): Citywide
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report, explaining that the code
amendment was for Title 17 of the Rancho Palos Verdes Municipal Code He noted
that the specific language was prepared by staff and the City Attorney to reflect the City
Council's previous decision pertaining to the 16 -foot height limit to residential
development applications He stated that the Commission considered the language
presented by staff and adopted specific amendments to the development code, which
are presented to the commission in the attached resolution to the staff report. Senior
Planner Mihranian explained that took the direction of the Planning Commission from
the previous meeting, and in conjunction with the City Attorney, prepared specific code
amendment language He reviewed the language in the staff report and explained that
staff is seeking direction from the Planning Commission with regards to the proposed
Code Amendment language
Commissioner Cartwright asked whether the language in the grading finding refers
specifically to pad lots, or does it also apply to descending or ascending lots
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that this finding could be applied to applications
that include sloping lots
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if an applicant could build up to 20 feet if he is on a
sloping lot that slopes 5% or less
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that was correct and explained that if it is a pad lot,
based on the height measurements of the development code, one could build up to
16/20 envelope and that the 20 foot height limit applies to pad lots that have a slight
grade difference but less than a 5% slope
Director/Secretary Rojas further explained that although there is a uniform height limit of
16 -feet, the code does acknowledge that there are different types of lots and attempts to
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 2
describe how to measure that 16 -foot height limit on different types of lots as described
in section 17 02 040 of the code.
Vice Chairman Mueller was concerned with the impact to adjacent property owner's
homes that could result by exceeding the 16 -foot height limit on sloping lots.
Commissioner Cote asked staff to clarify why they were recommending using the
language 'by -right height limit' in the guidelines. She also asked why situations were
being discussed that involve no grading.
Senior Planner Mihranian explained that the height variation guidelines only apply to
projects that exceed the 16 -foot height limit He also clarified that some Height
Variation applications do not involve grading, whereas if grading is involved a separate
grading application would need to be submitted. He added that the term 'by—right' is
used because the City Council had noted that this was in fact the 'by -right height limit'
He added that Staff's intention was to include the 'by -right' term so that it would be clear
in the guidelines for applicants' benefit
Commissioner Lyon felt that staff has done an outstanding job in documenting
reasonable changes to implement the City Council's desires and the Commission's.
There being no public speakers, Vice Chairman Mueller opened and closed the
public hearing.
Commissioner Lyon moved to accept the staff's revisions as documented in the
staff report, thereby adopting P.C. Resolution 2003- 62 forwarding specific
recommendations for amendments to the City's Development Code, Height
Variation Permit Guidelines, and Neighborhood Compatibility Handbook,
seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (4-0)
4. Variance and Site Plan Review Permit (Case ZON2003-00312): 4043
Admirable Drive
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, noting that at the November
11, 2003 meeting the Commission reviewed this item and directed staff to research
other properties within the Seaview tract to further examine if there was an exceptional
or extraordinary circumstance on the property or if granting the variance would
constitute a special circumstance for the property He explained that staff had
researched the street widths in the tract, other setback deviations in the Seaview tract,
and other properties within that tract that were built with the same floor plan as the
subject property Staff concluded by stating that after such research, they felt that there
is no exception or extraordinary circumstance that exists on this property. Therefore,
staff was recommending the Planning Commission deny the Variance, with prejudice,
and approve the Site Plan Review, subject to the recommended conditions of approval.
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 3
Robert Sherman 4043 Admirable Drive (applicant) requested 8 minutes to speak, which
was granted by the Planning Commission He began by stating that he has reviewed
the staff report and disagreed with the analysis, and that the Planning Commission has
the ability to allow true neighborhood diversity. He added that his remodel project s a
small project of only 574 square feet on a single story with hipped roofs and that only
145 square feet of that is in question. He believes that his property does entail an
exceptional or extraordinary circumstance generating a special circumstance for the
property. Mr Sherman provided pictures that were viewed on the overhead projector as
he gave his presentation. He added that the Seaview Community is broken into two
tracts (east vs. west) with 262 lots, sixteen of which resemble his lot. He stated that
there are 5 additional properties that have the same floor plan as his except for the
detached garage. He added that because of this and that he is on a corner lot, they
are allowed a different planning circumstance for his property Mr. Sherman provided
pictures that were viewed on the overhead projector depicting a `bedroom forward plan,'
a `garage forward plan,' and floor plan comparisons of his present floor plan vs the
proposed floor plan He explained that his intentions are to keep the amount of remodel
to a minimum and that there have been 14 cases that have been approved for minor
exceptions and/or variance that have allowed encroachments. He noted that his
request is for the allowance of only a 610" of encroachment He stated that 12 letters
have been received in support of his project and no negative letters. He concluded by
asking that the Commission please pay attention to the neighbors that are most affected
by the proposed project.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Sherman if his Homeowner's Association requires
approval of such projects.
Mr Sherman stated that the Seaview Homeowner's Association does not require any
approval of such projects
Vice Chairman Muller asked the applicant to explain why this property exhibits an
exceptional or extraordinary circumstance and why the addition is unable to be
expanded onto the backyard.
Mr. Sherman began by stating that there are at least 14 instances of structures
encroaching into setback areas throughout this particular tract. He noted that expanding
into the backyard would result in the loss of a 40 year old Brazilian pepper tree and
would essentially leave him with no backyard
Commissioner Cote asked Mr Sherman if, in his view, he had a situation that 'generally'
doesn't apply to other properties in his same zoning district because, as he stated, his
situation is similar to only16 (6 1 %) of the other homes in the tract
Mr Sherman replied that he personally does not think that his situation can be
described as `generally' apply to other properties, because his home is similar to only
6 1% of the surrounding neighborhood.
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 4
Commissioner Cote asked staff to explain the finding that allowed the approval of a
Variance application in 1994, which allowed almost a 6 -foot encroachment into the
setback at 4232 Exultant Drive.
Associate Planner Blumenthal noted that staff did not review the findings for that
Variance.
Commissioner Cote asked, in staff s opinion, if the subject property's floor plan is found
in 6 1 % of the homes in the tract, whether staff would consider that as generally
applying to other homes in the area
Associate Planner Blumenthal noted that, in staffs opinion, it would be considered
generally applying to other properties.
Vice Chairman Mueller noted that this particular application is asking for the largest
encroachment (510") in that area to date and asked staff to explain why they felt this
particular street is not an exception
Associate Planner Blumenthal noted that there are four other streets with a similar right-
of-way width. He added that the distance from the curb to the property line (parkway) is
the same on all right-of—ways and that the only difference is that the street (pavement)
is narrower.
Commissioner Lyon began by stating that it is usually easy to read the rules and make
the findings, however, in this case there is a gray area He felt that the use of the word
'generally' provided the Commission with some latitude with their judgment, enabling
them to make the finding if they believe it is justified He felt that the extenuating
circumstances presented in this case are that other lots in the tract are deeper than this
particular lot and that the street is wider than the other streets. He added that, in his
opinion, these situations represent extraordinary circumstances. He noted that when
considering an application, he tries to figure out what is right, what the public would
desire, and what would be least harmful to the neighborhood He noted that when he
went to see 4232 Exultant Drive, which involves almost an identical situation where a
structure encroaches into a setback, within 2 inches of the requested application, the
addition did not look out of place. In fact, he felt that if he did not have the data with
him, he would not have known that it encroached into the setback and that the street is
narrower than the applicant's street He added that the previous Planning Commission
found it fit to approve the Variance in 1994 in a situation that appears identical He
noted that he takes into account the 1994 Variance approval by the previous Planning
Commission, the support of the neighbors, and the applicant's desire to not go up and
possibly block a view. He felt that it would seem to be more reasonable to expand the
property into the front setback area. He therefore was in support of the requested
Variance
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 5
Commissioner Lyon made a motion to approve the Variance and Site Plan
Review.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he was not present at the previous meeting where
this item was discussed, however he noted that he did view the meeting via television
and read the minutes and had conducted the necessary site visits. He stated that the
Variance is something that allows the Planning Commission to set aside the
Development Code if there are exceptional and extraordinary circumstances, which are
generally brought about by topography, size, shape, location, or surrounding properties
In this case, the project location is in the middle of a neighborhood where1l minor
exception permits and/or variances have been granted for front yard encroachments, 5
of which are on Admirable Drive. He added that while conducting site visits within the
neighborhood, to view previously approved encroachments, he was not able to tell the
difference in most, from a perception standpoint He added that staff is expected to be
objective and look at the facts and present them, however the Planning Commission
does have discretion to use compassion and common sense In this case, he felt that
he would support the Variance and that the project would be compatible with the
neighborhood.
Commissioner Cote began by stating the she agrees with Commissioner Cartwright's
comments that the Variance is a very difficult application for the Planning Commission
to approve, especially when Commissioners have to consider exceptional and
extraordinary circumstances. She stated that she had considered the floor plan and the
uniqueness of the wall of the master bedroom that ends up at the setback line. She felt
that typically she does not consider 6.1 % as being something that is `generally'
applying. She added that after the additional data was collected she felt more
comfortable with agreeing that a Variance is necessary because it does not apply
`generally' to other properties in the same zoning district and thanked Staff for the
additional data provided which enabled her to come to that conclusion She stated that
she supports approval of the Site Plan Review and Variance
Vice Chairman Mueller began by stating that he interpreted the data differently and
therefore has a slightly different point of view He stated that there were only 4
Variances out of the 18 encroachments granted and that the rest were Minor Exception
Permits, and that only one of the Variances (4232 Exultant Drive) was for an addition
into the front yard setback He added that he did not want to allow the encroachment
into the front yard setback because he views the City differently than other Cities where
front yard setbacks are enforced and added that generally the City does not allow the
encroachment of this amount He stated that he considers the long-term picture where
anything that is done on the first story should be done in accordance to the code,
because there is nothing that prevents the owner or a future owner to come in with a
Height Variation application for a second story
Commissioner Lyon repeated his motion to approve the Variance and Site Plan
Review as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved,
(3-1) with Vice Chairman Mueller dissenting.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 6
J
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that staff would present a resolution reflecting the
Planning Commission decision on the Consent Calendar of the January 13, 2004
meeting.
5. Minutes of November 11, 2003
Commissioner Lyon noted a clarification on page 8 of the minutes
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Cote. Approved, (3-0-1) with Commissioner Cartwright abstaining
since he was absent from that meeting.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
6. VIEW RESTORATION PERMIT NO. 161: 7256 and 7264 Berry Hill Drive
Commissioner Cote made a motion to grant the applicant's request for a
continuance and table the item to a future Planning Commission meeting,
seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved (5-0).
7. HEIGHT VARIATION PERMIT (CASE ZON2003-00335): 27820 Palos Verdes
Drive East
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining that the project
consists of a 910 square foot first story addition towards the rear of the residence and a
1,556 square foot second story addition over the existing garage He added that the
proposed Height Variation requires that view impairment, privacy, and neighborhood
compatibility issues be taken into account. He displayed pictures through a power point
presentation and explained that staff was able to make the necessary findings He
added that there were a few issues with respect to views from the neighboring property
at 28032 Palos Verdes Drive East, but upon further investigation it was determined that
significant view impairment would not result from the second story addition In addition,
staff reviewed the proposed addition with respect to privacy issues and determined that
privacy infringements would not result from the proposed second story addition. Staff
did find that the subject property contained foliage that significantly impairs a view from
the viewing area at 28032 Palos Verdes Drive East, and therefore incorporated
conditions of approval that the trees be trimmed in a manner that would restore the
view. Therefore, staff recommends that the Planning Commission approve the project
with the conditions imposed and adopt the appropriate resolution.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that the applicant noted that one of the trees on the
driveway was not on his property and asked if staff was aware of that situation.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that he was not informed of that situation.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff to further explain what condition no 10 on page 5 of
the Resolution would do to the foliage.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 7
F
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the silk oak and pepper tree create
significant view impairment, and that Staff is attempting to restore the view of the harbor
area.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff to explain why they are recommending raising the
crown of the pepper tree rather than trimming it.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that raising a tree's crown has been identified as a
method to preserve a tree, while still restoring the view.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff to explain why the mass of the proposed project is
not impacting staffs recommendation
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the combination of the lack of visibility of
the home, its isolation, the roof design and the location of the second story lead staff to
conclude that these factors help minimize the appearance of the project and help
mitigate its apparent size
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Boyd Zack 27820 Palos Verdes Drive East (applicant) stated that he read the staff
report and is wiling to comply with the conditions. He added that he spoke with his
neighbor about the pepper tree, and explained to her that the tree was part of the
conditions of approval and stated that he would incur the expense of trimming the tree
so that he may move forward with the project.
Miguel Hernandez 777 Silver Spur Road (representing the architect) stated that they are
willing to work with the neighbors or anyone opposing this project to find possible
solutions for any issues or concerns.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr Hernandez to address his concern with regards to the
bulk/mass of the property
Mr Hernandez explained that the fagade from the front of the house is not visible from
Palos Verdes Drive East and that the current property has a design which almost
branches off in various directions. He stated that the architect's approach was to make
it more like the surrounding homes so that it can blend in with the surrounding
properties. In terms of it being larger, he added that the mass of the home is only
visible from the back yard and noted that it is not visible from the neighbor's properties
as it continues to have its same appearance.
Dale Venning 28032 Palos Verdes Drive East stated that his property is located directly
behind the proposed project. He felt that there is view impairment from his property and
that the interpretation of the word 'significant' varies from one's personal perspective
and felt that this project would significantly impact his view He added that currently the
foliage obstructs his view resulting in a dark view obstruction with the City lights in the
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 8
background, and explained that this project would result in an obstruction by a building
with lighting He expressed concern with external lighting, the chimney, and electrical
lines. He added that this proposed project would also block the view towards Palos
Verdes Drive East and the City, but not the harbor view. He felt that this project would
cause a privacy issue from his spa, deck, and pool as it can be seen from this structure
and there could also be an auditory factor He added that the neighbor recently planted
nine trees on the fence line and noted that they might cause future view impairment He
further explained that he bought his house in 1990 because it provided absolute privacy
and a complete view with no structures directly in front of it Mr Venning provided
pictures that were viewed by the Commission as he gave his presentation.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if there are any plans to add external lighting on
that property.
Associate Planner Schonborn replied that the plans do not show additional lighting
Director/Secretary Rojas further explained that the Development Code would not
prohibit additional lighting, however it would ensure that the lighting be downcast so that
it would not directly shine onto adjacent properties.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if additional lighting requests would require a permit.
Director/Secretary Rojas further explained that it would require an electrical permit, but
not a planning approval
Commissioner Cartwright asked if there could be a condition included in the resolution
that external lighting be cast down
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that the Commission could include such a condition.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr Venning if he had considered planting foliage on
his property around the portion of his structure that is visible from his property to protect
his privacy He noted that this would not impact his view of the harbor
Mr Venning felt that this would impact the view in the back bedroom areas.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if there was an agreement with staff on a viewing area.
Mr. Venning answered that it was agreed that the family room was the viewing area
Commissioner Cote asked if there was a Homeowner's Association in the
neighborhood
Mr Venning explained that no CC&R's are enforced.
Commissioner Cote asked Mr. Venning to express his opinion on the mass and bulk of
the proposed project, disregarding any view impact.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 9
Mr. Venning stated that he does not oppose the first story addition, however he does
oppose the second story addition. He felt the second story addition would make the
home much larger than any other homes in the neighborhood
Commissioner Cote asked staff to clarify whether the chimney would remain at the
same height.
Associate Planner Schonborn replied that it would remain as is. He further explained
that the initial silhouette was not complete and the contractor expanded it outward an
additional 12 feet to more precisely depict the proposed project
Commissioner Lyon clarified that the chimney is lower than the ndgeline of the house,
therefore it does not appear in the silhouette
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff if the code allows the chimney to remain lower than
the proposed addition.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that the Uniform Building Code allows the
chimney to remain lower than the proposed addition as long as the actual flute is at
least two feet above a ten -foot radius on the roof surface. He noted that according to
the plans the chimney complies with the code.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff to clarify the code restrictions on the sound.
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that there are no findings on noise or noise levels that
apply to additions or the use of a residence, however pool equipment and gardening
equipment are subject to noise level limitations.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Venning to further explain his concern with regards to
the power lines.
Mr. Venning explained that the power lines currently run into the garage and stated that
a second story addition over the garage might require the relocation of the lines to run
from that higher addition ultimately causing view obstruction. He suggested the
possibility of running the power lines underground
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if it would be possible to add a condition to prohibit
the placement of the power line connection on the second story.
Associate Planner Schonborn replied that if the Commission feels there is a potential
view impact it may impose a condition that any new electrical lines be run underground
Director/Secretary Rojas added that this would have to be explored with Southern
California Edison and could be cost prohibitive to the applicant
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 10
Cynthia Venning 28032 Palos Verdes Drive East stated that she has lived in her home
for 10 years and initially had an unobstructed view of the Vincent Thomas Bridge She
added that when remodeling her own residence they were contemplating adding a
second story addition but did not in order to avoid any obstruction of views, and still
managed to double the size of their home. She added that the family room has a 9' x
10' window with an unobstructed view. She was disappointed that the Zack's had
added a silhouette which affects her view, planted additional trees, added a gazebo,
and have a large tree in the front yard that is growing into her view. She felt that privacy
was also an issue because the second story would enable the neighbors to directly see
into the backyard and pool area She felt that with that addition they would have no
privacy resulting in a fish bowl type setting She concluded by stating that more and
more of her privacy has being taken away over the years and she was opposed to a
project that would take away more of her privacy.
Mr. Zack (in rebuttal) stated that there is no intention of adding any additional external
lighting to his property. With respect to two-story properties, he stated that there are a
number of two-story properties within the 20 home radius of the house, including a two-
story house adjacent to the Venning's property and that two-story homes are not
uncommon in the neighborhood Concerning the size, he stated that he does recognize
that this would be the largest home within the 20 home radius, however he stated that
there are at least two other homes in the tract that are as large Mr. Zack concluded by
stating that the initial silhouette was inaccurate and confirmed that there have not been
any modifications of the original plans and that the neighbors signatures were acquired
after the silhouette was corrected and complete.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Zack if he plans to relocate the electrical lines.
Mr. Zack noted that the electrical lines were relocated when he initially moved into the
residence and that he would have no problem leaving them in their current location
With regards to relocating them underground, he would be more than willing to look into
that but felt it may be too costly
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that having reviewed the location of the second
story with the power pole, the power lines would more than likely have to be moved and
that the new location would be determined by Southern California Edison and/or the
Building and Safety Division.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Staff if conditions could be placed to ensure that the
electrical lines do not impair/obstruct the view.
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that as demonstrated in the photos, in staff's opinion,
the power lines would not significantly obstruct a view
Commissioner Cartwright stated that due to the location of the house he was not
concerned with the mass/size of the proposed structure and therefore found it to be
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 11
compatible with the neighborhood. He added that he does not consider the electrical
lines to impose a significant view impairment and was reluctant to impose a condition
regarding this issue He added that, in his opinion, the second story is visible from the
Venning's property, but it does not create a significant view impact Commissioner
Cartwright noted that, although he sympathizes with the Vennings, he does not see that
the Planning Commission can do much for their situation He did not think that the
addition would present significant view impairment, as defined in the code, and that the
structure has been situated to minimize the view impairment. He concluded by stating
that he `could make the findings for the Height Variation and the Site Plan Review.
Commissioner Cote found that this project was difficult and appreciated hearing the
other Commissioners' perspectives. She added that because this property is on a flag
lot and is so far away from the road, issues with respect to neighborhood compatibility
are not the same as that of a more typical neighborhood. She added that compatibility
is.typically dealt with by assessing how the structure fits into the neighborhood and how
if is viewed from the street and other homes She stated that she agreed with
Commissioner Cartwright's comments regarding the property's location where it is pretty
much tucked away and not visible from the street. She explained that she had not read
the staff report before conducting the site visit, and in observing the silhouette she did
not realize the size of the addition. She did not feel that the architect had made an
attempt to minimize the appearance of the project in terms of bulk and mass.
Commissioner Cote did not believe the proposed addition posed a significant view
impact to the Venning property, however she felt that from the Venning's property it did
have a bulky appearance. Regarding privacy and the placement of the proposed
windows, she felt that although it is quite a distance from the Venning's residence, this
was a unique situation where the second addition can be easily seen She expressed
continued concern with the mass/size of the project, especially as viewed from other
properties, and concluded that she would like to hear the remaining Commissioners'
perspectives before she votes.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt that the project appears to be massive and can understand
Mr. Vennig's concern. He stated that when calculating the size of the proposed project,
the numbers depict the scenario where this project would result in a home that would be
80% larger than the average home in the neighborhood and approximately 24% larger
than the next largest home in the neighborhood. He added that he understands
Commissioner Cote's and Mr Venning's concern only after having done the math,
reviewed the plans, and then visualized the surroundings. He felt that the square
footage of this project seems to be out of place and was having trouble making the
neighborhood compatibly finding. He agreed with Commissioner Cote that there did not
seem to be significant view impairment from the structure and the electrical lines He
concluded by stating that he is having trouble accepting staff's approval
recommendation of this project
Commissioner Lyon stated that he agrees with Commissioner Cartwright and noted that
it is not how large the property is, it is how it appears to the rest of the world He added
that the numbers can be misleading in terms of appearance and felt that the privacy of
the property justifies the size requested. He stated that the project does not appear to
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 12
I
be out of scale He believed that it would not be appropriate to impose conditions on
electrical power lines because, even if moved to the upper portion of the second story,
they would not appear in the view frame and felt that this is an issue that did not have to
be addressed. He concluded by stating that he supports the project.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that Commissioner Cote was right on target when she
stated that upon visiting the property that the mass was not as apparent and that it was
only after reviewing the staff report and plans that she realized the bulk of the project
He added that if this was the case she was supporting what he and Commissioner Lyon
support, which is that the square footage is incidental and that it is how the project
appears when one looks at it He added that, in this case, this home is tucked away
and there are only 3 or 4 other homes that can view portions of the project He stated
that it would be a shame to see the denial of this project entirely based on the proposed
square footage
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve, with conditions, the Height Variation
Permit Case No. ZON2003-00335 as presented by staff, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright.
Commissioner Cote expressed concern with the neighborhood compatibility issue She
stated that she was unable to make that finding and specified that it is not the square
footage of the project rather the design and appearance.
Commissioner Lyon's motion failed, (2-2) with Commissioner Cote and Vice
Chairman Mueller dissenting.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Commissioner Cote what project modifications would
lead toward her approval
Commissioner Cote stated that the architect should modify the appearance of the
proposed second story of the home, keeping the intended square footage (specifically in
the rear), so as to appear less massive
Commissioner Lyon made a motion to require the applicant to add foliage in the
rear yard to screen the second story addition to the Director's satisfaction and
moved to approve, with amended conditions, the Height Variation Permit Case
No. ZON2003-00335, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt that foliage is not a permanent solution and may lead to
future problems. He noted that he is more concerned with the actual fagade of the
home He added that some modification and articulation to the second story is required
to make the project compatible with the neighborhood, thus was reluctant to require
foliage.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that foliage would help mitigate the appearance of the
proposed structure. He felt that it would be appropriate to incorporate a condition that
would require the placement of foliage. However, he stated that the structural size and
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 13
appearance seemed to be a concern to the Commission and felt that the applicant and
architect should address those issues He suggested continuing the project to allow the
applicant and architect to consider the Commission's concerns and make the
appropriate modifications
Commissioner Cartwright withdrew his second on the motion, thus the motion
died for lack of a second.
Commissioner Cartwright noted that he would like to hear the applicant's and architect's
opinion with regards to the possibility of continuing the item to allow them the
opportunity to address the concerns of the Commission and making the appropriate
project modifications.
Vice Chairman Mueller re -opened the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked the applicant his opinion with regards to the possibility of
continuing the item to allow him the opportunity to address the concerns of the
Commission
Mr. Zack (applicant) stated that he was wiling to comply with the conditions and to work
with the Commission to find possible solutions for any issues or concerns
Vice Chairman Mueller asked the architect the same question.
Mr Hernandez (representing the architect) stated that he may be able to decrease the
size of the project however noted that the height of the second story addition would not
be affected. He asked for clarification as to what type of modifications the Commission
is requesting.
Commissioner Cartwright clarified that the Commission is predominantly concerned
about mitigating the second story's size and bulk, and adding articulation to the
proposed project
Commissioner Cote expressed that her concerns are with the massive and bulky
appearance of the project as viewed from the rear of the neighbor's property and that
the Commission's overall issue is with the mass and bulk from a neighborhood
compatibility perspective
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if there is a time constraint on this particular project
Director/Secretary Rojas replied that there is a time constraint and noted that if the
Commission approves a motion to continue this item to allow the applicant to explore
alternate redesigns, the City would need the applicant's consent to a 90 -day extension
to the Permit Streamling Act deadline. He suggested that the project be continued the
February 10, 2004 meeting.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 14
Vice Chairman Mueller asked the applicant to indicate whether or not he would be
willing to allow a 90 -day extension.
Mr Zack (applicant) stated that he was wiling to allow a 90 -day extension -and noted
that he would like to resolve this proposal with the current Commission. He added that
he is willing to work with the architect to find possible solutions for the issues and
concerns at hand as quickly as possible.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the architect would be able to provide alternate designs
to the Planning Department by January 5, 2004
Mr Hernandez (representing the architect) replied yes, that they would be able to
provide the redesigned plans to the Planning Department by January 5, 2004
Commissioner Cote moved to continue the item to the January 13, 2004 meeting
to allow the applicant the opportunity to redesign the proposed second story
addition to address the issues discussed by the Planning Commission, seconded
by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (4-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 10:00 p.m the Planning Commission took a short recess until 10:10 p.m. at which
time they reconvened
1- qlamllsI
ONNIMM I IN
Staff Coordinator Alvarez presented the staff report, giving a brief background regarding
the case. Upon conducting site visits, Staff identified a total of 20 trees on three
adjacent properties that significantly impair the ocean view and the Catalina Island view
from the Reddy viewing area Staff recognized that the master bedroom, den, dinning
room, and kitchen offer a view, however staff determined that the applicant's best and
most important viewing area is from the living room Staff displayed photos on the
power point screen that demonstrated the amount of view impairment and discussed
the staff recommendations for trimming the foliage that is obstructing the view from 14
Amber Sky Drive, noting that staff recommends no action be taken on trees 2, 8, and 9
as they do not exceed 16 feet or the ridgeline of the foliage owner's roofline
Commissioner Cartwright asked for clarification regarding staff's recommendation for
tree no 24.
Staff Coordinator Alvarez explained that the recommendation in the staff report was to
lace the tree, or with the consent of the foliage owner, remove the tree However, after
a subsequent site visit, staff was now recommending that the tree be trimmed to 16 feet
or to the ridgeline, whichever is lower, to further restore the applicant's view.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 15
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed tree no. 12, option 1, which is to raise the crown to
the red line shown on the view photo. He asked if staff was going to use the photos as
the trimming benchmark or if there was a trimming height associated with the tree
Staff Coordinator Alvarez answered that staff had not measured the trees, and staff was
using the red line in the photograph to denote the level of the horizon, and two feet
above the red line would be the top portion of the Catalina Island view
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if the Planning Commission should consider the
private agreements that were attached to the staff report
Staff Coordinator Alvarez answered that the tree trimming agreements had not been
finalized and that the decision was now up to the Planning Commission based on the
City's code considerations described in the staff report.
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Naveen Reddy 14 Amber Sky Drive (applicant) distributed photographs taken from his
property He discussed his viewing area and felt that he has multiple viewing areas on
his property He noted that his house is 120 feet in length with picture windows along
that area. He disagreed with the staff report regarding tree nos. 5 and 6 He stated that
the staff recommendation for tree nos. 5 and 6 is to trim back the fronds allowing the
trees to grow out of the viewing area in a few years He felt this was a very
unreasonable solution, as he should not have to wait that long for his view to be
restored He suggested a compromise where one or two of the palm trees could be
reduced in height He also disagreed with the staff report which states trees 22 through
29 are in the periphery of the view, as the trees are in the center of the view from the
master bedroom, and therefore he did not think that lacing the trees would be sufficient
Mr. Reddy felt that trees 22 and 24 should be reduced to 16 feet in height, as lacing
would not be sufficient.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Reddy if he agreed with the staff recommendation for
tree no. 12 to raise the crown of the tree two feet above the red line in the photograph
Mr. Reddy stated that there are so many trees in question that it was very difficult to
determine what should be raised, laced, or trimmed, and therefore he would have to
trust staff's recommendations. However, regarding tree no. 22 he did not think lacing
was sufficient, rather trees 22 and 24, because they are so close to each other, should
be trimmed to 16 feet in height He felt that trees 25 and 26 could be left as is, and
trees 23, 27, and 28 should be maintained at 16 feet in height
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr Reddy if he agreed with staff's determination of the
best and most important viewing area
Mr Reddy stated that he may have chosen the bedroom as the better viewing area, as
trees 22 through 28 would then be in the center of his view rather than the periphery of
the view.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 16
Mr Velken 17 Amber Sky Drive (foliage owner) stated that of the 10 trees on his
property, only the recommendation for tree no. 10 caused him concern. He explained
that tree no. 10 enhances his view looking from his house to the ocean. He felt that the
staff recommendation would cause the tree to be a stump with no greenery on it, and it
would likely die. He explained that the roots from this tree have spread and have a very
important stabilizing affect on his property in regards to the slope, He recommended
that, rather than trim the tree to 16 feet, the tree be heavily laced He stated that he
would be willing to compensate the applicant by giving him the right to remove and
replace trees 16 and 17 He explained that these are big trees with big trunks, and
replacing them would give the applicant an unobstructed view of the ocean. He added
that he would also be willing to do this for tree no. 11.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if the Planning Commission should take slope
stabilization into consideration, and if so, how
Project Coordinator Alvarez explained that when a tree is removed, the stump and the
root system is required to remain in order to help stabilize the slope.
Commissioner Lyon asked Mr. Velken if he agreed with all of the recommendations in
the staff report, except for tree no 10
Mr Velken answered that was correct, and he would also be willing to have trees 11, 16
and 17 removed and replaced if tree no. 10 were heavily laced.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 10:55 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 11:00 p.m. at which
time they reconvened
PUBLIC HEARINGS (continued)
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to abide by the Planning Commission rules and not
take any new business after 11:00, therefore recommending items no. 9 and no.
10 on the Agenda be continued to the next meeting, seconded by Commissioner
Lyon,
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that in order to continue item No. 9 beyond this
evening's meeting, the City would need the applicant to grant a one time, 90 -day
extension per the State Permit Streamlining Act.
The applicant declined to grant the extension and asked that the item no. 9 be heard at
this meeting.
The Commission agreed to hear Agenda Item No. 9 and 10 after View Restoration
Permit No. 157.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 17
David Cook 19 Amber Sky (foliage owner) stated that the palm trees on his property are
a very important architectural aspect of his home and are a special species that are very
expensive. He felt that the staff report was excellent and he has complied with all
aspects of it He stated that he has thinned the trees enormously and has a video that
will show the trees are half the size they were. He did disagree with the staff report
regarding tree no 7, as he did not feel there was any view obstruction caused by the
tree because there are other larger trees existing behind the tree He explained that if a
palm tree is cut and it's growing crown destroyed, then the tree will die To replace the
tree with a slower growing species would cost more than $1,000. Furthermore, tree no.
7 is one of a clump of three trees, and the roots of the two adjacent palms may be
injured to the point where they also may have to be replaced. Mr. Cook asked that the
Planning Commission defer the recommendation of the staff regarding palm tree no. 7
until all of the other foliage is trimmed or removed, and then re-evaluate the tree. He
explained that the tree is not obstructing a view, and he did not think that it will be a
problem when the other trees are removed.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff what size replacement tree would be required for
tree no 7 and if the replacement tree would have to be of comparable monetary value.
Project Coordinator Alvarez explained that the View Guidelines do not require the
applicant to replace a tree with one of a similar type or monetary value He noted that
the View Guidelines state that a replacement tree shall be no larger than a 24 -inch box
size tree
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff under what circumstances replacement foliage could
be ordered
Director/Secretary Rous answered that the View Guidelines, page 19 section E, state
that replacement foliage can be ordered in cases where removal of a tree could
adversely affect the privacy, public health and safety, shade, health and viability of
landscaping, and integrity of landscaping
Commissioner Cote asked staff if the City Arborist had been consulted regarding the
lowering of tree no 7
Staff Coordinator Alvarez stated that staff had not consulted with the City Arborist
regarding tree no. 7.
Mr. Reddy (in rebuttal) stated that there is nothing rare or special about the trees in
question, including the palm trees, as they are seen throughout California. He did not
think that trimming the fronds on the palm trees was sufficient to restore his view. He
stated that trees 22 and 24 also block views on Oceanaire Drive, and that should be
taken into consideration
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Reddy his opinion on the offer by Mr Velken to
replace trees 11, 16, and 17 if tree no. 10 could be heavily laced
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 18
Mr. Reddy responded that it was very difficult to judge that particular clump of trees,
however if Mr Velken were willing to add tree no. 22 to the list of trees to be removed
and replaced he would be willing to bargain.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if a replacement tree had to be put in the same place
as the tree it was replacing.
Staff Coordinator Alvarez answered that the replacement tree did not have to be placed
in the same spot as the tree it was replacing
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr. Reddy if the owner of tree no 7 agreed to removal of
the tree, would it be acceptable to him to have a replacement tree put somewhere else
on the property, away from the center of his viewing area.
Mr. Reddy responded that it would depend on what type of replacement tree was
selected.
Mr Velken (in rebuttal) repeated his offer regarding his trees and stated that he would
not agree to cut tree no. 22 to 16 feet or the ridgeline, as it is a shade tree that is used
in the summertime However, he would be willing to trim down the tree slightly and lace
the tree.
Mr. Cook (in rebuttal) repeated that he objected to the trimming of tree no. 7, as the
trimming would kill the tree. He also said that removal and replacement would ruin the
aesthetics of his landscaping
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed tree no 7 noting that the foliage owners had asked to
defer the decision on that tree until other trees had been cut and thinned. He noted that
staff has determined that the tree is in the center of the viewing area and asked staff if
there is a procedure to defer the decision on this tree.
Director/Secretary Rous stated that a condition could be added stating that tree no. 7
could be evaluated after the other foliage has been trimmed. However, he noted that if
staff has to subsequently determine if tree no 7 significantly impairs a view after all of
the other foliage has been trimmed, staff may likely determine that the subject tree will
not significantly impair the view
Commissioner Cote moved to support the recommendations regarding the
foliage at 19 Amber Sky Drive with the exception of tree no. 7, which should be
deferred and reevaluated by staff after all other foliage is trimmed or removed and
if staff subsequently determines the tree significantly impairs the applicant's
view, then the tree shall be trimmed to the 16 -foot level as described in option no.
1 of the staff report; regarding foliage at 17 Amber Sky Drive, tree no. 10 shall be
heavily laced, tree no. 11 shall be removed, tree no. 12 be trimmed per staff
recommendation, staff option 1 on trees 13, 14, and 15 and staff option 2 on trees
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 19
16 and 17, and staff recommendations on trees 18 through 23; follow staff
recommendations on the foliage located at 15 Amber Sky Drive, seconded by
Commissioner Lyon.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to amend the motion regarding tree -' no. 22 to
trim the tree down four feet and heavily lace. Commissioner Cote accepted the
amendment to her motion, seconded by Commissioner Lyon.
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to amend the motion to trim trees 24 through 28 to
the ridgeline or 16 feet, whichever is lower.
Commissioner Cartwright noted that the red line on the photograph is the horizon line
and felt that trimming the trees to that level would only open up a view of the sky
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that trimming the trees down to 16 feet or the ridgellne
would restore the ocean view.
The proposed amendment died due to a lack of a second.
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed tree no 7 and stated that any tree in the center of a
view should be considered significant view impairment
Commissioner Cote agreed, but felt that staff should make the determination as to
whether this tree causes significant view obstruction after the other foliage is trimmed.
Commissioner Cartwright added that it was common for the Planning Commission to
defer this type of decision to the planning staff and did not think anything would be lost
by deferring this decision
Commissioner Lyon agreed adding that it did not make sense to make an irrevocable
decision on the tree until it was known how the view was affected once the other trees
had been trimmed.
Vice Chairman Mueller disagreed, supporting staffs recommendation on tree no 7.
Commissioner Cote's motion passed, thereby adopting P.C. Resolution 2002-63,
(4-0).
9. GRADING PERMIT (CASE ZON2002-00239): 30120 Cartier Drive
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that during the recess he had received a request from
the applicant to continue the item, along with a 90 -day extension to the Permit
Streamling Act Therefore, the item did not have to be heard this evening.
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to continue the items 9 and 10 to the meeting of
January 13, 2004, seconded by Commissioner Cote. Approved, (4-0)
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 20
NEW BUSINESS
NONE
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES
10. Minutes of November 25, 2003
Continued to January 13, 2004.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
11. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of January 13, 2004
The meeting was adjourned at 12:09 a.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2003
Page 21