PC MINS 20031111CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 11, 2003
CALL TO ORDER
Apv
December 11,
03V
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Long at 7:01 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Director/Secretary Rojas led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ATTENDANCE
Present Commissioners Cote, Duran Reed, Lyon, Tomblin, Vice Chairman
Mueller, and Chairman Long
Absent Commissioner Cartwright was excused.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Blumenthal, Associate Planner Schonborn, and Assistant Planner
Yu.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that Agenda Item 11 was a view restoration item, and
that Planning Commissioners are required to visit the applicant's home in order to hear
the item He asked if it was possible to check if there was a voting quorum for the item
He noted if there isn't a quorum, the item could be continued to the next meeting
Chairman Long noted that he had not visited the site since he was not planning on
hearing the item
Commissioners Cote and Duran Reed noted that they did not have an opportunity to
visit the site
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to amend the agenda to move item no. 11 before
item no. I so that the item could be continued due to a lack of a quorum,
seconded by Commissioner Duran Reed. Approved without objection.
COMMUNICATIONS
.Director/Secretary Rojas distributed one item of correspondence for agenda item no 4,
one item for agenda item no. 8, and 2 items for agenda item no. 11. He also distributed
Vice Chairman Mueller's proposed changes to the minutes of October 14 and October
28.
Chairman Long announced that he would be resigning from the Planning Commission
and recused himself from all further matters to be heard throughout November. He
stated that his resignation would become effective upon his swearing in as a City
Councilman and contingent upon that
Chairman Long left the meeting at 7:10 p.m.
Commissioner Duran Reed stated that she had received a letter from Marymount
College
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
None.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
11 View Restoration Permit No. 138. 2 Paseo de Castana
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to continue the item to the meeting of November
25, 2003 due to a lack of a voting quorum, seconded by Commissioner Duran
Reed. The item was continued without objection.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Site Plan Review (Case ZON2003-00470)- 30468 Camino Porvenir
2 Site Plan Review (Case ZON2003-00591)- s/w corner of Sea Hill Drive and
Palos Verdes Drive South
Commissioner Tomblin moved to approve the consent calendar as presented,
seconded by Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (5-0).
3. Conditional Use Permit (Case ZON2003-00282)- 6510 Ocean Crest Drive
Commissioner Lyon recused himself from the item, as he lives within 500 feet of the
project
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 2
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and showing a diagram of the placement of the proposed antennas on the
building. He showed the photo simulations of the proposed project as well as photos of
the mock-ups that are currently on the building. He stated that, in staff's opinion, all six
of the necessary findings for the Conditional Use Permit could be made, as well as the
necessary findings under the Commercial Antenna Ordinance and the Wireless
Communications Antenna Development Guidelines Therefore, staff was
recommending approval of the project, subject to the recommended conditions of
approval.
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Adan Madrid 3010 Old Ranch Pkwy, Seal Beach, (applicant) stated that he agreed with
the staff report and the proposed conditions of approval He felt the new design was a
vast improvement over the original proposal and was available for any questions from
the Planning Commission
Commissioner Duran Reed asked how far the antenna housing protruded from the
building and if that would affect any views from the adjacent windows
Mr Madrid answered that the housing protrudes 12 inches from the building, and that
he did not believe any views were impacted
Commissioner Cote asked about coverage once these antennas were installed.
Associate Planner Blumenthal showed a diagram depicting the before and after
coverage.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the coverage with this new proposal was identical to the
coverage that would have been offered with the original proposal
Mr. Madrid answered that the coverage was nearly identical. He stated that this new
design meets Sprint's coverage objectives.
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Duran Reed moved to adopt P.C. Resolution NO. 2003-52, thereby
approving the Conditional Use Permit {Case ZON2003-00282} as presented by
staff, seconded by Commissioner Cote.
Vice Chairman Mueller was pleased that the design of the project could be modified to
satisfy the concerns of the neighbors with regards to the view, yet maintain adequate
coverage for the installation and was impressed by how well the antennas were hidden
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 3
Commissioner Cote agreed and was pleased that the applicant had listened to the
concerns of the neighbors and Planning Commission.
The motion to adopt the Resolution was approved, (4-0-1) with Commissioner
Lyon abstaining.
4. Variance and Site Plan Review Permit (Case ZON2003-00312): 4043 Admirable
Drive
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and the need for the Variance He stated that staff has reviewed the four
necessary findings, noting that staff could not make the necessary finding that there
was an exceptional or extraordinary circumstance that applied to this property that does
not apply to other properties in the area. He stated that staff also could not make the
fir►dmg that the deviation was necessary to for the property owner to preserve or enjoy a
substantial property right other property owners have. He stated that staff felt the
property could be added on to without the need for the Variance and staff felt there were
other alternatives available to the applicant He explained that staff felt the other two
findings for the Variance could be made. Therefore, staff was recommending the
Planning Commission deny the Variance with prejudice and approve the Site Plan
Review with the conditions of approval.
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff how the property could be added on to without the
need for the Variance
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that staff felt there is substantial area in the
rear yard, that with some redesign in the house and floor plan, the addition could be
popped out a little further and still achieve the same size addition. Regarding the fence
height, staff felt there were two alternatives: either not provide the raised deck in the
side yard setback or plant a hedge along the property line, which can be up to 16 feet in
height per the Code.
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Robert Sherman 4043 Admirable Drive (applicant) stated that he has reviewed the staff
report and respectfully disagrees with the findings regarding the Variance He staffed
that the staff report states his roof his 16 feet in height, but noted that it is no more than
12 feet in height and is a flat roof He also noted that in his statements included in the
packet, he states that streets in the Seaview area are 40 feet wide, when in fact some
streets are actually 54 feet wide. He stated that the Planning Commission has the
ability to allow true neighborhood diversity. He noted that the original design layout of
his home has the master bedroom right on the property line and in order to remodel
there is no other way other than to go up, which he chooses not to do He stated that
the Variance only encompasses an addition of 145 square feet and the entire remodel is
only 600 square feet, and to redesign the proposal creates a hardship. He felt that
adding a second story would impact the views of his neighbors and he did not want to
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 4
do that. He felt that he does not enjoy the same rights as other neighbors in that other
home layouts in the neighborhood enjoy the ability to remodel the main part of the
house without encroaching into the setback, as they are designed far from the setback,
,and noted that is not true in his situation. He stated that Admirable Drive is a 60 -foot
wide drive and includes parkways and sidewalks, and other streets in the Seaview area
are 54 feet wide and many do not have parkways and sidewalks. He felt that
encroachment into a setback is a much more serious issue into a 54 foot street than it is
into a 60 foot street He stated that there is precedent for encroaching into a setback,
and showed pictures of homes that encroach into the setback. He stated that there
were several letters in support of his project and no negative letters for the proposal
He asked the Planning Commission to pay attention to the public most affected by
neighborhood issues
Commissioner Lyon asked Mr. Sherman what he was proposing for the existing hedge
that currently lies between the stakes for the proposal and the sidewalk
Mr Sherman answered that the hedge will be removed.
Commissioner Lyon asked what kind of landscaping or screening was proposed to hide
the portion of the addition that is encroaching into the setback.
Mr Sherman answered that he has designed a front face that is pleasing, not imposing,
and adds to the beauty of the neighborhood. He stated there will be a lawn and plants
in the front area
Commissioner Lyon asked if the neighbors are aware that he will be encroaching into
the front setback area
Mr Sherman answered that all of his neighbors are aware that he will be encroaching
into the setback areas, as he notified every one of them.
Commissioner Cote asked Mr Sherman to clarify what was extraordinary or exceptional
about is property that would allow for the approval of the Variance. She also noted that
staff has suggested alternative designs that did not require the addition to go up and
asked Mr. Sherman why these were not considered
Mr Sherman stated that the exceptional circumstance wasn't remodeling the master
bedroom, but rather that the way the house was designed by the original developer the
master bedroom and bathroom lie within inches of the setback He stated that many
other neighbors in the tract do not have that circumstance, and therefore he felt that this
house is laved out in such a manner that to improve it to today's standards he has no
option other than to encroach into the setback unless he builds up, which may block
views of his neighbors.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 5
Commissioner Tomblin noted that Mr Sherman has a large backyard, and asked what
the distance was of the flat area of that yard was to the slope, and asked Mr. Sherman
why he did not want to build into the backyard area.
Mr. Sherman answered that his objective was to do a modest remodel of less than 600
square feet He felt that to put the addition near the rear he would have to take out the
central hallway and move it to another section, which would cause him to have to
remove a 40 -year-old Pepper Tree that he did not want to remove. He felt that would
be a hardship in terms of landscaping and the surroundings of his yard, and noted that
he is taking out other trees on the property.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Mr. Sherman if he would be willing to put up a hedge
rather than a wall
Mr Sherman responded that he had no problem with a six-foot wall with a 7 -foot hedge
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Mr. Sherman if there are other homes in the tract that
have the same setback as he does.
Mr Sherman answered that there are other homes in the tract that have the same
setback he has, noting that there are seven floor plans in the original tract, and
estimated that there are 10 to 15 homes in the tract with his same floor plan
Commissioner Duran Reed asked what the exceptional or extraordinary circumstance
that applies to his home versus the other 10 to 15 homes that have a similar setback
line.
Mr Sherman stated that the other homes would have the same hardship he has if they
choose to remodel He stated the other models in the tract enjoy a different right, as
they can remodel without having to apply for a Variance
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff if they could confirm Admirable drive was a 60 -foot
street, while the others tare 54 feet.
Associate Planner Blumenthal responded that staff does not know the width of
Admirable Drive or the other streets in the tract.
Vice Chairman Mueller added that the 60 feet appears to include the sidewalk and
additional property, and asked what the width of the street would be if measured from
curb to curb
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that streets vary throughout the City and staff does
not have that dimension for Admirable Drive.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 6
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff what the typical width of a street would be measured
from curb to curb
Director/Secretary Rojas estimated the width would be approximately 36 feet.
Commissioner Cote asked staff how many square feet the applicant could add to his
property before neighborhood compatibility guidelines would be triggered
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that at this particular property, the addition of
579 square feet would trigger neighborhood compatibility, and the proposed addition
was at 574 square feet
Commissioner Cote asked what types of things would be looked at in neighborhood
compatibility that aren't being addressed at this time
Associate Planner Blumenthal explained that with neighborhood compatibility analysis
the bulk and mass, architectural style and material, as well as setbacks would be
compared. He noted that staff has no way of knowing if those findings could be made
without doing the analysis
Vice Chairman Mueller noted that the addition could be expanded towards the back of
the property, maintain the same size, and not have the need for neighborhood
compatibility
Commissioner Duran Reed moved to accept the staff recommendation to deny
the Variance with prejudice and approve the Site Plan Review. The motion failed
due to the lack of a second.
Commissioner Lyon stated that the Site Plan Review is not the issue, as the real issue
is the Variance and the encroachment into the front setback area He felt that normally
he is very sensitive to this type of issue, however in this case all of the people who are
directly affected by that action have indicated their approval of this project, and noted
that the addition will only encroach 6 feet into the setback He therefore supported the
Variance, since all of the people directly affected approve of the project.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he worries about setting a precedence when
approving a Variance, and noted that there have been several controversial projects in
this neighborhood He felt that in this situation the neighbors do not have an objection
to the proposed project and that this particular street is exceptionally wide, which makes
the addition much less offensive than if it were on a narrower street.
Commissioner Cote stated that she was having trouble understanding what was
exceptional or extraordinary about this property that would allow for the approval of a
Variance. She noted that there are several other homes in the general neighborhood
that have the same design as the applicant's and she did not think she could make this
finding.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 7
Commissioner Duran Reed stated the she too could not make the finding that there
were exceptional or extraordinary circumstances on this property to allow for the
approval of a Variance. She did not think the property was unique, as there are other
homes in the neighborhood that have the same floor plan. She also did not think she
could make the second finding for the Variance, and agreed with the staff findings in the
staff report.
Vice Chairman Mueller also could not make the necessary findings for approval of the
Variance He noted that there are alternatives, and that moving the addition to the rear
of the property was a reasonable approach. He understood the argument regarding the
width of the street, but felt it was a nice thing to maintain the front yard setbacks. He
was therefore inclined to agree with the staffs recommendations
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he too lives on a wide street and agreed that it is
nice to maintain the front yard setback, and felt that there were alternatives to the
addition.
Commissioner Lyon stated that he understood the difficulty making the first two findings
of the Variance and asked staff, if the addition is in the best interest of the applicant,
neighbors, and community because it makes good sense yet the appropriate findings
cannot be made, is it permissible to use a little imagination to the interpretation of a
finding so that it can be made
Director/Secretary Rous answered that all applicable findings have to be made to
approve a Variance.
Commissioner Lyon stated that this property has a wall 24 feet away from the street,
right up against the setback, and contended that does not generally apply to other
properties in the area He noted that it applies to some other properties, but not
generally
Commissioner Cote asked staff, based on the logic presented by Commissioner Lyon,
how many other properties on Admirable Drive or in the tract have the same design with
a wall up against the front setback
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that staff does not know how many homes
within a tract were built under this same floor plan, let alone how many are built on this
particular street, but that this information could be researched.
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the Variance and the Site Plan Review,
with the conditions recommended by staff, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin.
The motion failed, (2-3) with Commissioners Duran Reed, Cote, and Vice
Chairman Mueller dissenting.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 8
Commissioner Cote moved to continue the item to allow staff to obtain more data
on how many other structures in the neighborhood have the same floor plan with
the same setback issues, seconded by Commissioner Duran Reed.
Commissioner Lyon questioned whether having specific data will be of substantial value
to the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Tomblin felt that knowing the width of Admirable Drive would be helpful
Vice Chairman Mueller felt the Planning Commission had been presented with all of the
information necessary to make a decision. He felt it was very difficult to categorize the
width of the street, as there are many different widths of streets in the City He also felt
it was very difficult to base the decision on the majority of the homes in the
neighborhood, as it could sway the decision either way. He was also concerned that, if
this Variance were approved, this applicant or a subsequent owner could then request a
height variation to expand the size of the home He therefore felt that the Planning
Commission should look at what is going to be preserved in the neighborhood and how
is the neighborhood going to look, and noted that the General Plan has specific
direction regarding front yard setbacks. He therefore was reluctant to support the
motion to continue the item, as he felt there was sufficient information before the
Planning Commission to make a decision
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he supports the motion to continue the item, and
sees an opportunity for new direction in the neighborhood to possibly get away from
some of the mega -structures that are being built or are proposed to be built
Director/Secretary Rojas asked if it was possible to ask the applicant if he would be
willing to grant a time extension since there would be difficulty with the Permit
Streamlining Act if the application is continued beyond tonight.
Mr. Sherman stated that he would consent to a one time, 90 -day extension.
The motion to continue the public hearing to the meeting of December 9, 2003 to
allow staff to research additional information passed (4-1) with Vice Chairman
Mueller dissenting.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8.30 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8*40 p.m. at which time
they reconvened
CONTINUED BUSINESS (CONT)
5. Conditional Use Permit Revision (Case ZON2003-00205) 5845 Crestridge Road
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 9
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He explained that the
applicant had submitted a slight revision to the proposal, which is reflected in the
memorandum dated November 11, 2003, which was distributed to the Planning
Commission He explained the revision requests that two light standards be removed,
leaving the remaining four for security lighting. He stated that staff continues to believe,
that with appropriate conditions, any potential impacts could be sufficiently mitigated
He stated that the applicant has requested Condition No. 3, regarding the height of the
light standards, be modified and will discuss this further with the Planning Commission.
He stated that staff feels that all of the appropriate findings can be made and is
recommending that the Resolutions to certify the Mitigated Negative Declaration and
approve the Conditional Use Permit Revision be adopted
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff to clarify what lights were being discussed in
Condition No, 3
Associate Planner Schonborn clarified on a power point slide which lights were
proposed to be removed and which lights were proposed to remain as security lighting.
He also clarified which lights were being requested by the applicant to be increased in
height to 15 feet
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he was very sensitive to the height of light standards,
and noted that the photometric plan included in the staff report shows the light spillover
from the fifteen foot high light standards will go significantly over the property line He
was concerned with that, even with the foliage, and asked staff how that would be
mitigated
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that the conditions of approval state that the type
of light fixtures used shall be those that are inset into a casing, rather than having a light
bulb that projects out from the fixture He felt this would direct the light down. He stated
that staff has also recommended the height of the light standards be no higher than the
top of the wall, which would also mitigate the impact of the lights
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he was not comfortable with the proposed higher
light standards.
Commissioner Duran Reed referred to condition of approval no. 3 as well as the
environmental checklist mitigation measures. She noted that the mitigation measures
suggest limiting the wattage of the light fixtures, the height of the light standards, and
when the rear parking lot can be lit She asked what the wattage of the current light
fixtures was
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that each of the luminaries are 70 watts and
there are two to three luminaries in each of the light fixtures. He stated that the new
light standards would be a maximum of 150 watts.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 10
Commissioner Duran Reed noted that one of the mitigation measures is to limit the
height of the light standards, and asked how increasing the height from 7 feet to 15 feet
was limiting the height
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that increasing the height was to light a greater
surface area. He stated that limiting the height to what is proposed was to try to ensure
that spillover is reduced to a point of insignificance. He felt that this could be done by
limiting the light standard to a height not taller than the existing wall, which is 12 to 15
feet in height, as measured from the parking lot surface
Commissioner Duran Reed did not understand how the spillover is being mitigated if the
height of the standards are increasing from 7 feet to 12 to 15 feet.
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that, although some light standards were
increasing in height, staff was limiting the new height to be no taller than the top of the
adjacent wall in order to avoid impact to the neighbors He noted that overall there will
be less lighting fixtures utilized because of the few standards that are increasing in
height.
Vice Chairman Mueller noted that in a nighttime site visit many of the lights were turned
off or burned out. He asked staff if, in doing their mitigation study, they were basing
their analysis on a fully illuminated parking lot or if they were using the current lighting
conditions of the parking area
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that staff was analyzing the impacts of the
proposed modified lighting as indicated in their photometric plan.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the parking lot could be illuminated with more lights that
are a lower height, and achieve the same illumination of the parking lot.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated it was possible to illuminate the parking lot with
more lights at a lower height
Commissioner Tomblin referred to the lighting plan and asked if the spillover shown on
the plan was with the light fixture shields or without the shields
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that he was not sure and the question should
be referred to the applicant
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Shirl Cornwall 234 N El Molino, Pasadena (applicant) stated the church is a fast
growing congregation, and has found through experience what is best for membership
in terms of safety, comfort, and convenience, which includes parking lots He stated
that the church, through its experience, has determined what the best layout is for
parking lot lighting and the type of fixture that seems to be most satisfactory He stated
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page I I
that the application before the Planning Commission encompasses the guidelines that
the church gives for parking lot lighting. He stated that the church likes to be a good
neighbor and has selected a light fixture which is similar to the fixtures in the parking lot
at Hesse Park He explained that when the church was originally approved through a
Conditional Use Permit, lighting was an issue and explained that a condition was added
that the foliage and planting along the north property line be increased, which is what is
in place currently. He asked that the height of the fixtures be changed to one that is
more efficient and useful, explaining that the current 7 foot high fixtures came from the
1987 CUP modification Because of a change in conditions, mainly the growth of the
foliage, he felt it was quite clear that the foliage does a very good job of shielding the
church and its lights from the neighbor's property. He stated that the 15 -foot lights will
be well below the height of the foliage. Further, he explained that the type of light fixture
is constructed in a manner where there are two means of shielding the light from the
neighboring property He stated there is a reflector that will shield the light in addition to
a piece of sheet metal that can be wrapped around the back of the light, and therefore
did not think the lights would be of a problem to the neighbors
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Mr. Cornwall if he could increase the current wattage
on the current light standards to .1luminate the area of the parking lot that is dimly lit, and
would that solve the security issues of the church.
Mr Cornwall answered that it would be possible to increase the wattage in the current
light standards, however the spread of the light would be diminished. He noted that
some of the fixtures proposed were to take care of the dimly lit area, as well as a
deterrent to youths who cause problems in the parking lot after hours.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked if the shrubs in the parking area along the north of
the property are deciduous so that they lose their leaves.
Mr Cornwall answered that the shrubs do not lose their leaves.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if the plan shows the throw of light after the shields are in
place.
Mr. Cornwall answered that the plan shows the throw of light before the shields are in
place Further, there is a 45 -degree slope and a property line wall above that, and the
throw of the light will be on the v -all and not across the property line.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr Cornwall if he would agree to a condition that the
lights will be shielded.
Mr. Cornwall felt that there was already a condition that the lights be shielded in the
conditions of approval, which he agrees to.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the shielding was depicted in any of the plans.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 12
Mr. Cornwall answered that the shielding was not depicted in the plans, but it will be
done.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if there have been any incidents in the parking lot, other
than the youth gathering after hours, that has prompted the need for the security
lighting
Mr Cornwall answered that there have not been any specific incidents that he is aware
of
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that several of the lights are currently not working in the
parking lot and was concerned that the church may be solving a problem that is not
really a problem, and asked when the last time the parking lot was fully lit with all of the
lights working
Mr. Cornwall did not know
Vice Chairman Mueller felt that the 15 foot lights out near Crestridge Road were a
reasonable approach to providing the needed illumination, however he was concerned
with the lights on the north side of the parking area because of the residences directly
adjacent to the property He asked if the lights along the north side could be maintained
at the current height and fully lit
Mr Cornwall answered that there are a couple of the current lights that will be left,
however the light only goes partially out to the first parking space and does not cover
very much of the parking area
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the fixtures could be changed so the light goes out
further
Mr Cornwall stated that you need height to get spread, which is why 15 feet is a good
height for the spread needed in the parking lot.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked why he could not leave all of the existing lighting in place
and increase the wattage He felt these lights, placed closer together with a higher
voltage should supply sufficient light coverage
Mr Cornwall stated that it will not project the light out where it Is needed in the parking
lot
Commissioner Cote referred to a comment letter received which suggested the lights be
limited to a height of 12 feet, and asked Mr. Cornwall to comment on that suggestion
Mr. Cornwall clarified that the resident wanted the light to be at 12 feet at his particular
location according to his measurement. Elsewhere along that north property line the
height of the wall varies from 10 feet to 16 feet, and he would like to keep the lights at
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 13
15 feet in height He felt that the heavy foliage will sufficiently block any light spillover to
neighboring properties.
Commissioner Duran Rded asked Mr. Cornwall if he understood that if, when this
lighting plan is brought back before the Planning Commission, it is determined that the
15 foot lights are not adequately shielding the adjacent properties, the light standards
may have to be lowered.
Mr Cornwall stated that he was aware that this was in the conditions of approval, and
that the applicant must agree and sign these conditions of approval
Roger Bost 30511 Cartier Drive stated that he has volunteered to do maintenance work
at the church and that a number of the lights in the parking lot get broken due to parties
in the parking lot after hours He stated that the parking lot is not very well lit and that
the lights tend to get broken out because they are so low
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Duran Reed referred to condition no. 7 regarding the shielding of the
lights and asked staff if it was their understanding that if the light fixtures do not allow for
adequate shielding to adjacent properties, they would have to be lowered
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that condition no 8 requires a three month
review of the lighting, and if the lighting is not adequately screened the applicant will
have to modify the lighting in some way.
Commissioner Duran Reed was concerned that the lighting be acceptable when it is
installed, not three months down the line.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the condition is worded such that the applicant
cannot get a final on their building permit until the Planning Department is satisfied that
the lighting is correctly shie'ded
Commissioner Tomblin felt it was important to modify condition no. 7 to state that a
photometric plan be included that shows the shielding for the lights on the north side of
the parking area
Commissioner Lyon moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2003-53 certifying the
mitigated negative dec!ar-`ion and adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2003-54 approving
case No. ZON2003-00205 for a Conditional Use Permit Revision, seconded by
Commissioner Cote.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked staff if it was possible to add a condition of approval
to require some type of scrocning over the light so that the lights could not be knocked
out by vandalism
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 14
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that this type of condition could be added, but
wondered if it is technically feasible.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed with Commissioner Duran Reed's comments, however
he was not sure it was feasible as it may affect illumination of the parking lot.
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed condition no. 3 and noted that the neighbors had
written a letter stating that they would be satisfied with a light at 12 feet in height with a
timer. He asked staff if a light at 12 feet tall would prevent the neighbors from seeing
the lights from their apartme, is
Associate Planner Schonborn did not think, in either scenario, the neighbor would see
the light source.
Commissioner Lyon repeated his motion, with the addition that condition no. 7 be
modified to require, that prior to issuance of the permit, a photometric plan by the
lighting manufacturer be submitted showing that the house light shields and
other deflusers eliminate any spillover of lighting to the adjacent neighbors on the
north side. Approved, (9-0).
6. Minutes of September 23, 2003
Commissioner Duran Reed noted a typo on page 14, and a clarification on page 16 of
the minutes.
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the minutes, as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Duran Reed. Approved, (5-0).
7 Minutes of October 14, 2003
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that he submitted his corrections via e-mail, which have
been distributed to the Planning Commission
Commissioner Duran Reed moved to approve the minutes, as amended,
seconded by Cornniissionor Lyon Approved, (4-0-1) with Commissioner Cote
abstaining since she was absent from that meeting.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
8. Conditional Use Permit (Case ZON2003-00508): 31212 Palos Verdes Drive
West
Assistant Planner Luckert presented the staff report, explaining the scope of the
proposed project He stated that the specific findings for the Conditional Use could be
made and that the use will n(�t advoi 3ely affect the traffic patterns around the site Staff
found that the proposed fitness center is not contrary to the City's General Plan, which
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 15
says the Golden Cove Shopping Center should be redesigned and revitalized based on
convenience and need of the immediate neighbors. Staff felt that all findings could be
made to warrant approval of the revision to the Conditional Use Permit, and
recommends approval of the project.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked staff if the proposed conditions of approval for this
project are the same as those for the Pilates Studio that was previously approved by the
Planning Commission
Assistant Planner Luckert answered that the conditions are the same with the exception
that this protect will not require a review of the decibel level and employees will not be
required to park in the rear of the structure, as they are with the Pilates Studio.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked why there is no condition for a decibel level placed on
the fitness center, as musk will be played
Director/Secretary Rous answered that the main difference was that at the Pilates
Studio there was going to be organized workout classes set to music, while at the
fitness center people will be r;oming and going and using the equipment available with
softer background music, and sta`f did not feel this would generate the same type of
noise
Commissioner Duran Reed asked if the fitness center would have to return to the staff
or Planning Commission if they wanted to do a workout class
Director/Secretary Rous stated that a condition could be added that any changes would
have to be approved by the Director or the Planning Commission.
Vice Chairman Mueller noted that tt,e staff report notes there will be continuous music
played from 6 30 a m to 7 00 p m and asked how this is different from the Pilates
Studio
Assistant Planner Luckert answered that this is very similar to the Pilates Studio
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if there was a 65 db level limit placed on the Pilates
Studio.
Assistant Planner Luckert a nswerec' that there is a 65 db level limit placed on the
Pilates Studio subject to a 6 -month i eview, and that the same condition could be put on
this project
Commissioner Tomblin notrad that the Pilates Studio is upstairs, while this is downstairs,
and the Pilates Studio has two rear exists, while this has only one. He also noted that
Pilates has quite a few things, ha;Dpening at the rear of the studio as well as a rear
balcony, while this has very little activity towards the back of the building
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 16
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Barbara Patman 4187 Maritime Road (applicant) explained that there are 24 exercise
stations, 12 of which are non -electric type of machines that make no noise and work by
resistance. She stated that the music is background music and there will be no
amplified music, and stressed that she is very noise conscious, noting that there will be
a massage therapist at the site who would not be able to work if loud music was playing.
She stated that the center will be air conditioned and have ceiling fans running, so the
doors will not be left open She stated that she wants to be a good neighbor and that
her business will be an asset to the Golden Cove Center and the community.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Ms Patman if she had an objection to limiting the
noise level to 65 db.
Ms. Patman stated that she d,d not know how loud 65 db was, but she would comply
with whatever the Planning Commission directed
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if air conditioning would be adequate for a facility of this
type
Ms. Patman answered that she v! -is, planning on installing air conditioning, as it is one of
the conditions of her lease and t!,. , -It she would not need to have the doors open
Matt Hammond Coieland Cc= ,,panies, 17524 E. 17th Street, Tustin, stated that he was
representing the owners and that the parking was not an issue as people would be
coming and going throughout the day. He stated that the air conditioning for the
building is new and therefore quiet and efficient. He stated that these uses have been
very successful in shopp ng centers and there have been no complaints.
Vice Chairman dueller closed Vpublic hearing.
Commissioner Duran Reed moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2003-55 thereby
approving Revis=on "C" to `. ordi conal Use Permit 205, with the additional
condition that the volume o. n.,Lisic that emanates from the fitness center not
exceed a maximum of 65 db and the doors be kept closed during business hours,
seconded by Commi-sioner Tomblin. Approved, (5-0).
9 Height Variation Permit (Case ZON2003-00304) 5900 Clint Place
Commissioner Duran Reed I�Yt 1! is meeting at 9.55 p.m.
Associate Planner Blument" ; D- ;sci—ited the staff report, explaining the scope of the
project and the need for the ; ie l ' t M ariation application He stated that the Director of
Planning, Building, and Code :ement determined this application should be
referred to the Planning ''cm le -ion because of the potential for view impairment In
reviewing the findings of the proposed project, staff noted that due to the location of the
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 17
residence and the direction of the views, the proposed project does not create a view
impairment from the viewing area of other properties. Furthermore, staff determined
that all 9 of the findings for the 'ieight variation could be made, and was recommending
,approval of the project subject to the conditions of approval
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed condition no. 3 and asked staff to clarify how staff
was able to make the finding that the lot was not located on a ridge or promontory.
Associate Planner Blumenthal displayed a photo of the residence and noted the
definition of promontory. Fic, exp'ai,ied that this property, along the rear property line,
has a transition slope down to F,n.ecrest Drive, which is only on one side that looks
down to other parcels rather th -, two sides
Vice Chairman Mueller opened the public hearing.
Robert Tavasci 320 Pine Ave, Long Beach, stated the he is the architect for the project
and was available to answer any questions regarding the project.
Vice Chairman Mu,31ler dis(-1!Fqed the columns depicted on the plans, and felt the
columns would make the sti L. Murry look even taller from the street. He asked if there
was anything in the de,� -n tha' - -,-uires the columns and if there was any way to
reduce the fagade or appeL-,-mcc of the tallness of the structure from the street.
Mr. Tavasci stated that the entry structure is less that one story and the columns are
just a little over 8 feet in He explained that he was trying to be sensitive to the
height of the structure by starting the second story addition approximately 45 feet from
the property line He felt that from the street one would see very little of the structure.
Kevin Rehm 5925 Clint Plan, did not understand why this project had to come before
the Planning Commiss-n, v n "icre turns out to be no view impairment He also
questioned what the possil�' - , impairment would be, since the view was of the San
Gabriel Mountains and he did, not think that distant mountains that are seldom seen are
considered part of the Vl_,�, Tt- o'ore, he questioned why this was before the Planning
Commission, and felt tl '-it c rcl ',c was in the eyes of the beholder. He noted an
error in the staff report sL-is residence 5925 Clint Place is 2,300 square feet,
when it is actually 4,200 square "
He asked =6Wmission approve the
project
O"VKH
Al Mashouf 5901 Cl;nt rlacr, that if anyone is affected by this project it would be
him He stated that he ha, 4 c I n similar to the one proposed for this project He
noted that there are 11 hon s c- 'int Place and 8 or 9 of them already have second
story additions, and the -L,' ac' j- c,-ty already has a second story addition on it. He
stated that nohody's view � )u' , i -,.,"ected by this project and encouraged the
Planning Commission too a; )ro,,, project
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 18
Commissioner Cote asked staff to clarify the size of the structure that was approved at
5925 Clint Place.
Associate Planner Blumenthal an-,wered that staffs research indicated the size of the
home that is indicated in the v'aff report, however staff could go back and research to
make sure they didn't miss a permit for an addition
Commissioner Cote asked staff to clarify why this project came before the Planning
Commission.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that there are four triggers that require Planning
Commission review of height variation applications, one being the potential of a view
impairment, and if there is any potential at all for view impairment, the case will go
before the Planning Commi— ,on to allow an opportunity for anyone who feels their
views maybe impacted, to have tr,Clir cases addressed in a public hearing forum In
this case, however, once the anaa�!sis was performed staff did not feel there would be a
significant view impact
Commissioner Lyon moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2003-56 thereby
approving the height variation -1,3 presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner
Tomblin. Approved, (4-0)
10. Conditiomil Use Ppr!,- F .,�,-sion "D" (Case ZON2003-00381) 5975 Armaga
Spring Road
Assistant Planner Yu presented ti is staff report, explaining the project was for a
proposed expansion to an existing playground by 4,730 square feet and to conduct the
annual review of the parking plan "he stated that the proposed project does not include
an increase in the numher c -f stucl,. As attending the preschool, the number of staff
members, or the numbs of stude,,4s who will be on the playground at one time. She
stated that staff deterrn,ne{-: 11 at tl't, site is adequate in size to accommodate the
proposed playgi ound expan- on, � proposed expansion will not have a significant
adverse on adjacent proper. (-s, C proposed use is not contrary to the General Plan,
and the proposed project his becn designed to protect the public health, safety, and
general welfare. Therefore, staff -cls all of the findings can be made and recommends
the Planning Commission approve the project as presented by staff.
Commissioner Tomblin ast<-d if t1— playground will be ADA compliant.
Assistant Planner Yu sl -t—1 "-3t t plans show ADA accessibility
Vice Chairman 1,11ueller op: ied , le public hearing. POOR ORINNAL
Jacqueline Ignon 843 Ave C, Red—ido Beach (applicant) stated that she was
representing Mt Olive Lutheran Cihi-rch and was available to answer any questions.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
Page 19
Commissioner Cote discussed the comment letter include in the packet regarding the
lighting of the sign
Ms Ignon stated that the lighting of the sign was not part of the scope of her work on
the project and was not considered in this application.
William Scar 3154 Deluna Drive, stated that he is the pastor for the Mount Olive
Lutheran Church and that the sign was previously approved and constructed to conform
to the City's requirements He StpIr d that the church is intending to put a timer on the
sign to save electricity, wh,ch will ; qially address the neighbor's comments.
Vice Chairman Mueller closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin moved Eo adopt P.C. Resolution 2003-57 approving
Conditional Use Permit as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Cote.
Approved (4-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTIFS
12. Minutes of October 28, 200 )
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that he submitted his corrections to the minutes via e-
mail, and a copy has been N, ,:d to the Planning Commission
Commissioner Cote movc,�,4 to ioprove the minutes as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Tomblin. Appro,,gid, (3-0-1) with Commissioner Lyon abstaining
since he was absent f rcni that i i - eting.
ITEMS TO BE PI -ACED ON FUT' -�E AGENDAS
Commissioner Cote stated ",.,-it shr, would not be at the November 25th meeting.
0111110111.001
The meeting was adjournc�! tl(' 'Sp.m
Planning Commission Minutes
November 11, 2003
POOR ORIONAP Page 20