PC MINS 20030513CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 13, 2003
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
May 27, 2003
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Long at 7:05 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Recording Secretary Peterson led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE:
Present Commissioners Cartwright, Cote, Lyon, Tomblin, Vice Chairman Mueller,
Chairman Long.
Absent: Commissioner Duran Reed was excused.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Blumenthal, Associate Planner Schonborn, Assistant Planner
Luckert, and Recording Secretary Peterson.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Tomblin moved to approve the agenda as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (6-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed 3 letters of correspondence regarding Agenda Item
No. 3 and 3 -mail correspondences received on pc c{)rpv corn regarding the RV issue.
He also distributed 2 letters regarding Agenda Item No. 1 that were received after the
Monday deadline.
Director/Secretary Rojas reported that at the last meeting the Neighborhood
Compatibility Ordinance was introduced to the City Council and will return on May 20 for
the final reading and that it will go into affect 30 days after the final reading He also
reported that the RV Ordinance had been approved by the City Council and that the City
Council had directed the Traffic Committee to look at traffic safety issues and report
back to the City Council at the 6 -month review.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS
NONE
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Variance, Height Variation, and Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2002-00388):
6512 Nancy Road
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report He explained the scope of the
project and the need for the three applications He noted that since the applicant was
proposing to attach the existing garage to a two-story addition, and the garage is at a
lower elevation, there is a new lower point of measurement for the overall height of the
structure that creates an intensification to the non -conforming situation with respect to
height; therefore, necessitating a Variance application. He explained that staff was not
able to make all of the necessary findings to approve the applications. Regarding the
Variance, staff did not feel there was an exceptional or extraordinary circumstance, as
staff felt that there was sufficient area throughout the property that could accommodate
an addition that would not affect the overall structure height. Further, staff did not feel
the Variance was necessary for the preservation of a substantial property right of the
applicant. He stated that the applicant's property is the only structure that staff was able
to identify as having a height that exceeds the maximum permissible by the City's code.
Thus, staff believes that allowing the owner to construct an addition that will result in an
overall height increase would grant special privilege to the property owner. Discussing
the height variation, he explained that staff was able to make all but one of the findings
required, specifically finding no. 8 discussing neighborhood compatibility and structure
size. He stated that typically additions and remodels will result in structures that are the
largest in the immediate neighborhood, however since this project entails a Variance
application to gain the additional structure size, staff believes that the resulting structure
size would be too large for the immediate neighborhood, specifically the resulting
structure size would be 2,212 feet larger than the average structure size in the
immediate neighborhood. Regarding the grading application, staff found that all but one
of the findings could be made, as staff believes the proposed grading exceeds that
which is necessary for the use of the lot. Therefore, staff has determined that the
applicable findings could not be made for support of the project, and recommends the
Planning Commission deny the application.
Commissioner Lyon asked if a person standing on the street or driving by would be
aware of the fact that there was an addition to the existing home.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the proposed addition would not be
apparent from the street
Commissioner Lyon asked if the garage were not proposed to be attached to the
existing structure, would there be a need for a Variance application.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 2
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that there would still be a need for the Variance
application, because between the residence and the garage the grade continues to drop
to the garage. Further, staff has found that, in looking at the survey, the area that could
accommodate an addition without affecting the overall height is the patio/deck area.
Commissioner Cote asked staff to explain the roll of the Art Jury in this situation
Associate Planner Schonborn explained that Art Jury approval was required through the
neighborhood CC&R's, however the Art Jury is an entity that is separate from the City of
Rancho Palos Verdes, and looks at the architectural style and integrity of the structure
Commissioner Cote asked if the Art Jury also looks at neighborhood compatibility in
regards to mass and bulk
Director/Secretary Rojas did not believe that the Art Jury would look at the size and bulk
of the project He noted that Miraleste is a unique community which is governed by the
Art Jury, however, just like any other HOA, City decisions are irrespective of whatever
the CC&Rs say He stated that the Art Jury looks at the design and architectural
features, and not the issues of compatibility
Regarding neighborhood compatibility, Chairman Long asked staff what would happen if
the facts seem to suggest that the existing structure is not compatible with the
immediate neighborhood character, but that the proposed addition does not make the
existing incompatibility any worse than it already is
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that in a situation such as that, the findings could be made.
Commissioner Tomblin referred to the plans and asked staff to explain where they
thought the addition could be placed and what their thought process was in making that
decision.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the proposed project would not be seen from
the street, and normally that would be a reason to justify approval of the project in terms
of size. The issue with this project, however, was the height of the proposed project
Staff felt that there could be an addition to this residence that doesn't require a
Variance, and therefore staff could not make the appropriate findings.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that a Variance was used when a piece of property is
not as productive as others, and the Variance was used to bring it up to parity with the
other properties. He further noted that a Variance must be subject to conditions that
ensure that it does not constitute a grant of special privileges.
Commissioner Long opened the public hearing.
Rob Katherman 18 Rockinghorse Road explained that this was a house built in the
1930s which does not meet the current City code. He felt that to build an addition to the
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 3
home which is compatible to the floor level of the existing first floor of the house one
would need to go down to an elevation of 623, and in order to build an addition to the
house the owners would have to build a new garage which would be accessed from the
existing driveway, which'is at an elevation of 623. Therefore, he felt that any addition to
the house that would make the home useable, accessible to the cars, and would meet
the City code for parking the cars, would require a variance. He therefore stated that it
would be physically impossible to add on to the house without a variance. He felt that if
the Planning Commission denies the Variance application, there is no way this home
can be added on to that will make it useable. He asked the Commissioners to look at
the floor plans and try to figure out how to add on to the home at the existing patio level.
He felt that adding on to the home would make the first floor an unusable basement. He
felt that this home was the most unique one in this situation that he has seen in the City,
as it is an existing three-story home He stated that the Variance for 33 feet in height
was necessary because of the sloping nature of the property, and no matter what the
Planning Commission decided, any addition approved must be at least 31 feet 3 inches
in height. Regarding the height variation, he noted that staff could make all findings but
one, which was the size of the home He noted that the lot is very large and is 75
percent larger than the average lot size in the neighborhood, and with the proposed
addition the lot coverage would only be 18 percent Finally, he noted that this home
could be considered an historical home and that the owner would like to preserve the
historical nature of the home, which added to the unusual circumstances to the
property He therefore felt that the Planning Commission should consider all aspects of
the project and approve the project as presented.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that the primary job of the Planning Commission is to
make land use decisions that are consistent with the Development Code as approved
by the City Council, and therefore were bound by the Development Code in making their
decisions. He did not think that convenience or the want or need for a larger house
merits the granting of a Variance.
Chairman Long stated that staff had indicated there was a possibility of adding on at a
different location of the property, however Mr. Katherman had felt that would still require
a 31 -foot, 3 -inch height, and asked Mr. Katherman how he reached that conclusion
Mr. Katherman explained that in order to add anything on to the house and to make the
existing garage compatible with the Codes, one must add at least one more garage to
the property, and in order to do that one would add the garage somewhere in the
location where the existing basketball hoop and wall are located. Further, the area
covered by the garage and driveway are at elevation 623 and the height of the ridgeline
is 654, making the addition 31 feet in height.
Chairman Long asked if Mr Katherman was saying that any addition will be over 31 feet
in height, and on any property there is a right to add on
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 4
Mr. Katherman explained that one issue is the Variance for the height of the proposed
project, and given the circumstances there is no way to add on to this house without
going over 30 feet
Chairman Long stated that it is quite possible, given the circumstances of this house
and this neighborhood, that the house may be at its maximum, given that it already is a
three-story home.
Mr Katherman felt that was a decision the Planning Commission would have to wrestle
with, however, he felt otherwise
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff if the garage was a legal or a non -conforming
garage
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that staff had not determined the garage to be
non -conforming, as it seems to meet the minimum code requirements of a two -car
garage
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if it was staff's opinion that the applicant could add to their
home and keep the existing garage.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered yes, but once the addition results in a habitable
space that is 5,000 square feet or more, then a third garage space would be required
Chairman Long stated that there are two reasons the house needs to be 31 -feet 3 -
inches one being it is more than 5,000 square feet as proposed, and the second is that
since it is more than 5,000 square feet more garage space required, and the more
garage space leads to the 31 -feet 3 —inches.
Mr Katherman responded that was correct
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Katherman if he felt this house was more historic
than the other houses in the community and therefore should be given special treatment
as a historic structure.
Mr Katherman answered that the house was built in the 1930's and was the first house
to be built in this part of the Miraleste neighborhood, and therefore merits some
historical consideration.
Joseph Rich 6512 Nancy Road stated that Mr. Katherman had discussed most of the
things he felt justified proceeding with the project. He noted that the house could be its
own worst enemy, which he felt in its own was an extraordinary circumstance that
should be considered, as he could not add on to the house without the variance. He
noted the letters of support from his neighbors and explained that he had worked
closely with his neighbors so that all involved were happy.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 5
Commissioner Lyon asked Mr. Rich if he had shown the proposed addition plans to the
residents of the two homes on Miraleste Drive.
Mr. Rich answered that he was never able to contact either of them, and noted that one
of the neighbors refused to talk to him and the other has a fenced yard with a dog He
felt that the addition would be well below the tree line of their view.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Rich to address staff's contention that he could
build an addition up to 5,000 square feet without requiring a Variance, and why that was
so unreasonable that the Planning Commission should grant a Variance for the project
Mr. Rich answered that he needs the Variance to attach any addition to his existing
house, because he is establishing a new lower point of measurement.
Chairman Long asked staff if any addition attached to the house would require a
Variance.
Director/Secretary Rotas stated that staff did not feel any addition would require a
Variance, and explained that in trying to make the necessary findings staff identified an
area of approximately 700 square feet near the existing patio area, that is at an
elevation of approximately 625, which is above the current lowest elevation of 623.54
feet. Therefore, staff felt that the area could accommodate a two-story structure without
having to go down below the current lowest grade and would not require a Variance.
Raul Podesta 797 Miraflores Ave San Pedro stated he was the architect for the project,
and would like to clarify a few issues regarding the project He explained that the
existing side of the lowest point of grading is at the entry of the laundry room, and if you
took the lowest point to the top of the ridge, it is 33 feet, 6 inches He stated that the
existing garage is not conforming to current codes, and that he would like to use the
existing garage in conjunction with a new garage to satisfy the code requirement for a
house over 5,000 square feet. He added that in order to have a garage this size, a 25 -
foot radius was required. He stated that in order to design a house with the addition
towards the back of the house as staff recommends, the house will be chopped up and
the flow to the house will be tremendously compromised. He stated that the current
design had taken into account the concerns of the neighbors, and felt that adding on in
the area suggested by staff would compromise the privacy and views of the neighbors.
He felt that this home was well designed in terms of the needs of the neighbors, it was
well designed in terms of the code, and that there were special circumstances
compared to the rest of the lots in the area.
Commissioner Cartwright noted that Mr. Podesta had stated that he had tried to design
the home to meet City codes, but pointed out that a Variance was required, and asked
Mr. Podesta why he designed something that would require a Variance
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May 13, 2003
Page 6
Mr. Podesta answered that the Variance was triggered by the staff, as the addition is 26
feet in height He stated that any addition attached to the house would trigger a
Variance.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if staff had indicated that this addition would require a
Variance.
Mr. Podesta answered that staff had not initially informed him, and that he was very
surprised to learn a Variance was required. He added that he did not apply for the
Variance until after the staff had denied the original application.
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the application was originally submitted on August
2, 2002, and the first correspondence dated August 21, 2002 from staff to the applicant
and architect pointed out that the project exceeds the 26 -foot height limit and a Variance
application would be required.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked Mr Podesta if he had researched and attempted to make
the addition under 5,000 square feet and retain the existing garage.
Mr Podesta answered that it was not an issue because of the owner's requirements for
space and the function of the house.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if a design were submitted for a living area of 5,000
square feet, which does not include the detached garage, would a new garage still be
required.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that a new garage would not be required if the
habitable space of the home was less that 5,000 square feet.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if there was any way to design a smaller addition that
would meet these requirements and not require a Variance
Mr. Podesta answered that it was possible to design an addition to make the house
5,000 square feet, leaving the existing garage as is He noted, however, that the
current garage is too small and does not fit the needs of the family
Commissioner Cote asked staff to clarify why an addition could be attached to the
home, with less square footage, but it can go higher than 26 feet 4n height because the
existing home is 30 feet high She also asked staff to clarify for her the need for the
Variance.
Director/Secretary Rous explained that because this home was built before the City
incorporated there were certain code requirements that this home does not meet, and
are considered legal, non -conforming structures. He stated that the Code specifically
states that one cannot increase the degree of non -conformity In this situation the home
is at 30.66 feet in height and the applicant can make additions to his home provided that
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 7
the down slope height does not exceed 30.66 feet in height. To exceed the height a
Variance is required, and staff will then look at what hardship is driving the applicant to
apply for the Variance. He stated that in this particular situation, staff felt there was an
area on the property that an addition could be placed that does not increase the down
slope height beyond 30.66 feet. He acknowledged, however, that this option would not
allow the same square footage the applicant was proposing.
Commissioner Cote asked Mr Podesta why the applicant didn't consider this alternative
option that would not require a Variance
Mr. Podesta explained that there is an existing room on the lowest level of the home
that is used for laundry, and the windows would have to be eliminated, which the
owners did not want to do
Commissioner Lyon asked Mr. Podesta if it were possible to do the basic addition that
he is requesting, but not attach it to the existing garage, thereby leaving a very minimal
space between the house and the garage.
Mr. Podesta felt it was possible as long as there were no planning regulations or
building codes prohibiting it.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if staff would have objections if the applicant were to
propose this addition detached from the existing garage.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that staff would still have an objection because
there would still be a lowest finished grade elevation of 623 07, which is still less than
the 623 64 that is existing
Chairman Long asked if the finished grade were raised, would there then be a problem.
Director/Secretary answered that there most likely would not be a problem
Commissioner Cartwright felt that to eliminate the Variance would require quite a
change in the design of the addition, and would be reluctant to say that a design change
would not require a variance until it was reviewed by staff, and noted that the applicant
would still need a height variation and grading permit which would trigger specific
findings be made.
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lyon stated that this project was very difficult, saying that everyone can
read the code and determine that the project does not precisely meet the code
requirements He felt the Planning Commission needed to go a little deeper than that
and realize that the facts and details of this project are totally unobservable by the
public and it troubled him that the Planning Commission cannot do what, in his
judgment, would be the right thing to do and find a way to do what makes common
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 8
sense. However, he felt that with some minor changes in grading and a little more
imagination in the design, there are ways to accommodate the requirements of the code
without grossly changing what the client desires. He felt it would be a good idea to give
the architect a little time to reflect on the concerns expressed by staff and the Planning
Commission, to avoid the problem of the Variance, and felt the architect should be able
to find ways of satisfying the Code requirements so that the Planning Commission could
make the findings.
Commissioner Cote stated that she had visited the site, and because the addition is at
the rear of the residence, it is not apparent from the street, and she did not necessarily
agree with staff regarding the height variation finding with respect to mass and bulk. In
discussing the Variance, she stated that making findings for a Variance application is
very difficult, and she felt it was very important for the Planning Commission to make
these findings. She felt it was difficult to make the findings in this case, as a creative
architect and applicant should be able to design an addition that will address the needs
of the applicant as well as the restrictions of the City. She stated that right now she
could not support the proposed addition but would like the applicant to come back with a
revised plan.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that a Variance is a device set aside for the Planning
Commission to make exceptions to the zoning ordinances when there are very unusual
and extraordinary circumstances that are usually caused by topography. He did not
think a Variance should ever be granted to allow someone less inconvenience or to
allow someone to build a bigger house. He would like to see the applicant improve their
property, however he could not make the findings to support the Variance. He too
would like to see the applicant take a little more time to design a project that does not
require the Variance.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed with the comments made by the other Commissioners.
He felt that the house was its own worst enemy, and noted that this was an historical
house built under particular circumstances. He felt that with a little more work the
applicant could submit a plan that would not require a Variance
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that he did not see the exceptional or extraordinary
circumstances necessary to grant the Variance. He felt that because the lot is quite
large there is a way to design a home to achieve the large square footage without
requiring a Variance and the applicant should take time to re -design the addition so that
a Variance would not be required
Chairman Long agreed that it was very difficult to make the findings to support a
Variance application. He questioned whether the size of the home was compatible with
the rest of the neighborhood. He asked staff if each application could be considered
separately, so that the Planning Commission might possibly deny the Variance but
continue the height variation and grading permits.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 9
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the Planning Commission could deny the
Variance, which would clearly establish the parameters of the re -design, and then direct
the applicant to re -design the project accordingly and either bring it back to the Planning
Commission at a future date for review or remand it to staff, since the Planning
Commission would not have seen this application if it weren't for the Variance.
Chairman Long re -opened the public hearing.
Chairman Long asked Mr Katherman if, given the sentiment of the Commission, the
applicant would prefer the Commission act on all of the issues tonight or continue the
item to allow the applicant and architect to redesign the proposed addition
Mr. Katherman asked if the applicant were to withdraw the Variance application and re-
design the project so that a Variance would not be needed, would the applicant need to
come back to the Planning Commission or was it a staff level approval
Chairman Long answered that was his understanding from what staff had said, and staff
concurred
Director/Secretary Rojas added, however, that once the Planning Commission has
started hearing an item staff tends to have the Planning Commission finish the item,
however that option was up to the Planning Commission
Commissioner Lyon moved to deny the Variance, continue the Height Variation
and Grading permit to allow the applicant to redesign the project, and remand the
height variation and grading permit to the Director for review, seconded by
Commissioner Tomblin.
Vice Chairman Mueller proposed to amend the motion to deny the Variance, but
to continue the item to the Planning Commission rather than the Director,
seconded by Commissioner Cote.
Commissioner Tomblin did not see why, if there is not a view issue and there is nothing
that triggers the Planning Commission review, the Planning Commission should have to
hear the item rather than the decision be made at the Director level
Commissioner Cote was uncomfortable remanding the decision back to staff She
noted that the staff report does not support the approval of the height variation, however
the Planning Commission has essentially agreed that they could most likely approve a
height variation for the project.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed with Commissioner Cote's remarks.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the Planning Commission had already invested quite
a bit of time in this project and had a good understanding of the property, and what
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 10
would and would not be acceptable as an addition. Therefore, he would like to see the
project be continued to the Planning Commission for review
Chairman Long agreed that the Planning Commission had already invested a lot of time
in this project and should see the project through
The amendment to the motion to deny the Variance and continue the remaining
items to the Planning Commission passed, (6-0).
The motion to deny the Variance and continue the height variation and grading
permit to the Planning Commission meeting of June 10, 2003, was approved. (6-
0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 9:20 p.m. the Planning Commission took a short recess until 9*35 p m at which time
they reconvened.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chairman Long stated that before beginning the next agenda item the Planning
Commission may want to consider whether or not they were going to get to Agenda
Item No 5, the View Restoration Guidelines before 11.00.
5. View Restoration Guidelines (Review of Guidelines conceptually approved
at joint workshop held February 8, 2003)
Commissioner Tomblin moved to continue the item to a later date, seconded by
Commissioner Cote. Approved, (6-0).
2. Grading Permit and Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2002-00594): 4
Yellowbrick Road
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He explained the scope of the
project and the need for a grading permit. He stated that all findings for the grading
permit could be made, and therefore staff was recommending the Planning Commission
approve the project, subject to the conditions of approval.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if they had received any correspondence from the
HOA for the neighborhood regarding the project.
Associate Planner Schonborn responded that he had spoken to representatives of the
HOA and they did not indicate any concerns with the proposed project.
Chairman Long opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 11
Doug Leach 119 W. Torrance Blvd, Redondo Beach, stated he was the architect for the
project. He explained that this was the last vacant lot of this Not tract, and the owners
have done a wonderful job communicating with the neighbors and gathering support
He stated that he and the owners agree with the staff report and have no objections to
any of the conditions placed on the project.
Robert Nagamoto 3294 Via Campesina stated that he lives right behind the proposed
project, and that the residents at 3292, 3294, 3296, 3298 Via Campesina are very
concerned about the proposed project in regards to the quantity of proposed grading
He explained that over the years the roadway has partially buckled and portions have
washed away on three separate occasions, once during heavy rains, once following the
construction of a home at 2 Yellowbrick Road, and once when Cox Cable damaged the
road. He explained that on each of the three occasions the four residents had to pay
the entire cost of the road repairs and repaving, as well as a road drainage system to
prevent further damage during heavy rains. He and the other residents were deeply
concerned that the grading for this new home would result in the weakening of the road
and possible future buckling of the road He stated that he was not objecting to the new
home, only worried about the grading that may weaken his road.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Nagamoto if the homeowners were able to
determine if the cave-in of the road was caused by the construction of the home at 2
Yellowbrick Road.
Mr. Nagamoto answered that he could not physically prove it, but that was what all the
neighbors felt caused the problem.
Chairman Long asked Mr Nagamoto if he had gotten any recommendations from a
geologist on what to do with the road
Mr. Nagamoto stated that he had not done that, however, after the second failure the
homeowners hired someone to put in a drainage system to drain the water away from
the roadway He stated that what all the neighbors needed was reassurance that there
will be a retaining wall to prevent slippage of dirt underneath his road.
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff to respond to the concerns of Mr. Nagamoto that
the geology for the new home address the road.
Associate Planner Schonborn responded that when a new house is proposed geology is
submitted to the city geology for review and approval, which has been done. He noted
that there is a building grading restriction line that traverses this property that is
approximately 40 to 45 feet in width from the rear property down the slope which would
prevent any grading or construction within that area.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2443
Page 12
Director/Secretary Rojas did not feel there were any aspects of the project that would
affect the roadway
Commissioner Cote asked if the same restriction area is in place at 2 Yellowbrick Road.
Associate Planner Schonborn answered that the restriction line traverses the rear of
both properties.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if the geology report specifically addressed the situation
of the road on the upper lot.
Director/Secretary Rojas did not think that it did, given that this was the first staff had
heard of the concern
Associate Planner Schonborn added that the plans still needed to go through the
Building and Safety plan check process, which will look at the grading and potential
impacts that could occur to adjacent properties
Commissioner Tomblin felt that, in light of what was just heard, he would be
uncomfortable giving this project an approval without having this issue specifically
addressed in the geology report
Chairman Long felt that the Planning Commission could make sure that Building and
Safety was alerted to the potential problem and that it was looked at carefully in the plan
check process He suggested modifying condition 15 to say that prior to the issuance of
a grading permit the grading plan will be reviewed and approved by the City Geologist
and the City Geologist consider the location of the adjacent roadway and the affects the
proposed project may have on the roadway to ensure that problems to the roadway do
not occur
Commissioner Long re -opened the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Leach where the road was in relationship to the plan
submitted to the City
Mr. Leach answered that the road was not on the site plan, as the road is quite far up
the hill
Commissioner Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Cartwright moved adopt P.C. Resolution 2002-18 thereby
approving the project as recommended by staff, with the modification to
condition of approval no. 15 for the City Geologist to consider the affects of the
project on the road in question.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 13
Commissioner Tomblin anted the motion be amended to require the site plan be
revised to show the road on the plan.
Vice Chairman Mueller seconded the original motion and Chairman Long seconded the
amendment to the motion
Chairman Long asked Commissioner Cartwright if he accepted the amendment to his
motion
Commissioner Cartwright answered that it wasn't clear to him that any value was being
added by showing the road on the site plan. He understood the intent of Commissioner
Tomblin, but did not feel it was necessary to show the road on the plan, as the city
geologist would visit the site.
Vice Chairman agreed and stated that the road will be on the tract maps or records at
the City and that putting the road on the plans was not acknowledging anything other
than the road is there
Chairman Long withdrew his second to the amendment to the motion, and the
amendment died due to a lack of a second.
The motion to approve the project passed, (6-0)
3. Vesting Tentative Parcel Map Permit (Case SUB2002-00005): 7455 Via
Lorado
Assistant Planner Luckert presented the staff report. He explained the proposed parcel
map was for the sub -division of two existing residentially zoned lots. He stated that
necessary findings could be made by staff, and the city's Traffic Engineer has
tentatively approved the project and agreed that the two lots could easily be accessed
off of Palos Verdes Drive West rather than Via Lorado via a 22 -foot wide ingress/egress
easement and a drainage easement located in the middle of the lot He stated that
based on the analysis in the staff report, staff felt that proposed sub -division complies
with the City's Subdivision Ordinance and if mitigation measures are incorporated there
will be no significant affect to the environment. Therefore, staff was recommending the
Planning Commission certify the Mitigated Negative Declaration and conditionally
approve the Vesting Tentative Parcel Map.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the two properties would share a common driveway
which comes off of Palos Verdes Drive West.
Assistant Planner Luckert stated that was the proposal, and each driveway would be
approximately 11 feet in width
Vice Chairman Mueller asked staff if they had considered what would happen when the
homes are built on the lots in terms of visibility when entering onto Palos Verdes Drive
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 14
-et
West. He noted that the speed limit on Palos Verdes Drive West was 45 mph at that
point and wondered if staff had considered reducing the speed limit in that area.
Assistant Planner Luckert responded that the project had been forwarded to the Traffic
Engineer, who thought the proposed location would be the best one for the driveway.
He stated that the Traffic Engineer felt that a driveway entering onto Via Lorado would
be too close to the intersection. Mr. Luckert noted that the final building plan and design
will be forwarded to the Traffic Engineer for his review
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if there were other short driveways exiting directly onto
Palos Verdes Drive West.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there were several driveways on the other side
of Palos Verdes Drive West that exited onto the street
Chairman Long asked if the property were to be developed as a single lot, when it then
is possible to place a single driveway far enough away from the intersection on Via
Lorado
Assistant Planner Luckert thought that would be possible.
Commissioner Cartwright noted this was a tentative map, and asked if the driveway
could be placed in a different area on the final map without having to reopen the public
hearing.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there was flexibility to change the location of the
driveway in the future, however whatever easements are recorded by this map stay in
affect
Chairman Long opened the public hearing,
Cecilia Mauncio 7447 Via Lorado stated that she owns the property directly behind the
parcel in question. She stated that she is concerned the two new houses will
completely or partially block the views from her home and asked the Planning
Commission to keep that in mind
Nora Wagner 7449 Via Lorado stated that her home is also behind the parcel in
question She stated that she has no objections to the division of the property, however
she stated her concerns regarding her view
Chairman Long closed the public hearing,
Commissioners Tomblin, Cote, and Lyon all stated that they supported the staff
recommendations regarding the project.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 15
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that his concern centers around the driveway and safe
access onto Palos Verdes Drive West. He felt that the more reasonable solution would
be to put a driveway in with access to Via Lorado, which may require the lot not be
subdivided to do that He suggested that if the lot is subdivided that access should be
considered near the rear of the lot, and felt that further study was needed by the Traffic
Committee regarding safe exiting the property onto Palos Verdes Drive West.
Chairman Long stated that he shares the concerns of the Vice Chairman regarding the
driveway He recognized there were other driveways that accessed directly onto Palos
Verdes Drive West, but felt they tended to be longer driveways and at an area where
the road is divided. He therefore had doubts as to whether he could make the finding
that the space is physically suitable for the proposed type and density of the
development He did not think another driveway along Palos Verdes Drive West was a
good idea, particularly if the only reason it was being done is to squeeze in one more
house that is only marginally suitable for two houses anyway.
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff if the Planning Commission were to approve this
request, down the line when the plans for the homes were submitted to the City and it
was determined that there was a problem with the driveway at that time, can the project
be denied or has a precedent been set with the approval of the Tentative Parcel Map.
Director/Secretary Rous answered that there would still be some flexibility to change
the ingress and egress, however it would be more difficult if it were already approved on
the Tentative Parcel Map. He therefore felt that if the Commission had doubts about the
proposed driveway and they would like the Traffic Committee to look at the site, it could
be remanded to the Traffic Committee for its opinion. He noted that if the driveway
were to be moved to the rear of the property it would necessitate a great deal of grading
because of the slope towards the rear of the property.
Commissioner Cote asked if the issue of safety was the speed of the traffic on Palos
Verdes Drive West at this location or was it the ability to turn out of the driveway safely.
Chairman Long answered that it was the ability to turn safely onto Palos Verdes Drive
West.
Commissioner Cartwright asked at what point or what triggers the Traffic Engineer
getting involved with a plan when there are concerns over the safety of a driveway.
Director/Secretary Rous answered that ultimately new driveways will require some type
of permit from Public Works because they will be in the right-of-way or cutting some
curbs, which means Public Works will review and approve all of the locations of the
driveways. However, when a driveway location is being changed or a new driveway is
being created staff takes it to the Public Works Department early in the project, as there
may be an issue regarding the distance the driveway must be from the corner or from
another driveway. In this case, Public Works has reviewed the plans and the Traffic
Engineer stated that he did not have a problem with the driveway
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 16
Commissioner Cartwright pointed out that there are several driveways along Palos
Verdes Drive West on the other side of the street, and to his knowledge there have
been no problems with egress with these sites.
Commissioner Lyon did not see a problem with the proposed driveway or the entire
project. He did not feel the length of the driveway was relevant, as one would have to
stop at the end of the driveway before entering Palos Verdes Drive West, no matter how
long the driveway. He did not think the Planning Commission could deny this property
owner rights that are enjoyed by other property owners in the same area. Further, the
Code identifies the minimum requirement for a lot size, and these lots are 22 percent
higher than that minimum He did not see any basis for not approving the request, and
by so doing that does not preclude the relocation of the driveway if that becomes
necessary by some further findings
Commissioner Lyon moved to adopt the staff recommendations, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he had originally supported the staff
recommendations, however after hearing comments from the other Commissioners he
would rather see what the entire picture would be before he says it is o.k. He was
concerned about recording specific easements without knowing what was going to be
built on the lots.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the way the Tentative Tract Map was proposed
there was an easement called out on the map, and if approved as submitted, the
easement will be recorded. if the Planning Commission wants to maintain maximum
flexibility he suggested having the map recorded without an access easement and write
conditions that the driveway location is to be determined by the Public Works
Department or Traffic Committee at the time development applications are submitted.
Commissioner Cartwright asked who proposed to put the driveway where it is currently
located.
Assistant Planner Luckert answered that the applicant had initially proposed the location
of the driveway
Commissioner Cartwright moved to amend the motion to eliminate the easement
for the driveway, which was accepted by Commissioner Lyon. The motion
passed, (6-0).
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the Resolutions would come back on the Consent
Calendar at the next meeting, as staff has to modify the findings to reflect the
elimination of the easement for the driveway
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 17
4. Coastal Permit, Height Variation, and Grading Permit (Case ZON2002-
00272): 5 Packet Road
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report. He explained the need for the
three applications and the scope of the project He explained that there had been
concern from the neighbors at 3 Packet Road regarding their view of Catalina Island.
Staff was also of the opinion that the proposed architectural style and material was not
compatible with the immediate neighborhood character, and as such staff could not
make the finding for neighborhood compatibility. He stated that staff had received a
letter regarding potential privacy issues from a neighbor on Seagate Drive. Staff noted
while on a visit to the property on Seagate Drive that that the proposed addition is
approximately 150 feet away from the property, and with the existing landscaping in the
area staff noticed the silhouette was not very visible and, as such, staff did not feel there
would be privacy infringement to the property. Regarding the Minor Exception Permit,
staff felt that the proposed encroachment into the rear yard setback was self-induced
and felt there was no unnecessary hardship, practical difficulty, or inconsistency with the
Code, therefore staff felt that the findings for the Minor Exception Permit could not be
made. He explained that the property was located within the Coastal Specific Plan for
the City and staff felt the findings could be made for the Coastal Permit. Based on the
analysis, staff feels that the findings for the height variation, grading permit, and minor
exception permit cannot all be made, and staff is recommending the Planning
Commission deny without prejudice the height variation, grading permit, minor
exception permit, and coastal permit.
Commissioner Cartwright referred to a picture of the view from 3 Packet Road and the
proposed 20 -foot silhouette, and asked if there were a 16 -foot line across the viewing
area, what would be above that line.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that, with the proposed grading, it would be an
ocean view that was lost and Catalina would be above the 16 -foot level
Commissioner Cartwright felt that a 16 -foot ndgeline would completely block the view
from 3 Packet Road, and therefore he did not understand what the 25 percent referred
to in the staff report. He asked if it was possible to show a 16 -foot line on the photo
Associate Planner Blumenthal stated that staff had taken photos with a 16 -foot pole,
however due to technical difficulties they were not available. He explained that staff had
put a 16 -foot pole from the highest point on the lot where the structure is, and the pole
did go above the line of Catalina.
Commissioner Cartwright did not understand why staff was recommending denial
because of a significant view impairment, as there was no protected view He felt that
the applicant has made a considerable effort to minimize view impairment, to the extent
that they have pushed the second story to the rear and the front only goes up 10 feet
He asked if the applicant proposed a 16 -foot ridgeline, would staffs recommendation be
the same
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 18
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that assuming there is no grading, 16 -feet would
take out the view, however staff was taking 16 -feet based on the revised grade
Chairman Long felt that the Planning Commission needed guidance from the City
Council regarding this issue, and asked staff when the City Council would discuss the
by right height limit
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the City Council would be discussing the by -
right height limit on May 20.
Chairman Long asked if this application could be continued until after the May 20
meeting.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that what caused his concern was on page 19 of the
staff report which states that staff feels the proposed second story will result in a
significant impairment of views
Chairman Long felt guidance from the City Council as to whether or not when evaluating
the significant impairment, one should consider what is below 16 feet or not. He felt this
input from City Council will make a difference to the staff conclusions and a difference to
finding no. 6.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that under staff's normal review criteria staff would
have said this is not significant because it is being blocked at 16 feet. However, in this
situation, staff focused on the grading issue He explained that on a grading permit the
finding says grading or any related construction does not impair a view, therefore on a
grading permit staff can look at everything, including the portions below 16 feet. He
agreed that this item should be continued until the City Council discusses the by right
height issue
Commissioner Lyon felt that there were two kinds of grading to consider- grading up
and grading down. He felt that a property owner has an inherent right to build up to 16
feet from the grade that exists when they buy the property If the proposed grading is
lowering the grade level, and thereby enhancing the view from another parcel, he did
not feel would be a problem. He felt that this was the situation in this application, and
that the grading was making the view situation better rather than worse
Frank Bostrom stated that he was the architect for the project. He explained that it was
discovered when preparing the soils report, that this property was on an active drainage
channel that had been filled up over the years, and any addition to the property would
require a caisson and grade beam foundation In meeting with the neighbors and
discussing the project, the neighbors asked that any proposed addition be designed as
transparent as possible, pushed back on the lot as far as possible, that the garage be
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 19
located on the north side of the property so that it would align with the garage across
the street, that the roof over the garage be tile and flat. He explained that the Minor
Exception Permit was requested because pushing the second floor balconies back into
the setback this would push the residence back to the setback line Regarding the staff
report, he had no objection to items 1 through 5 He stated that it was his contention
that he had done everything possible to protect a significant view of Catalina Island that
is available to the residents at 3 Packet Road Regarding the Minor Exception, he knew
he could comply without pushing the house back an additional two feet, however they
felt this was important as it was a commitment made to the neighbors to help preserve
their view
Joanie Shomemaker 3 Packet Road, stated that she and her husband very strongly
encouraged the Planning Commission to accept the proposal submitted by the
applicants She stated that a 15 or 16 -foot addition would completely obliterate her view
of Catalina and the ocean He felt that the applicants and Mr Bostrom had designed a
great solution to a potentially difficult problem
Chairman Long asked Ms Shoemaker if she considered the impairment of the view by
the structure, as proposed, to be significant.
Ms Shoemaker stated that it was not significant, compared to what it could be
Chairman Long asked if the proposed structure was compatible with other structures in
the neighborhood
Ms Shoemaker answered that, given the materials suggested, she felt it was
compatible with the neighborhood
Mariory Jensen 32653 Seagate Drive #D stated that before she bought her condo,
which overlooks Packet Road, she had been told by the Planning Department that
Packet Road was zoned for one story homes with a 16 foot height restriction She felt
that the proposed addition was too large for the neighborhood and she felt that when
one purchases a lot with these types of restrictions placed on it that there could be
exceptional and extraordinary circumstances to allow a Minor Exception Permit. She
was concerned that if more houses on Packet Road were to add a second story to their
homes, all of the privacy for the condos at the Bay Club would be lost.
Chairman Long explained that there was no zoning that says a residence can only build
one story and never build a second story He explained the different types of
applications that were applied for with this project and why they were needed
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lyon felt that the Planning Commission has all of the facts, and did not
think anything the City Council would say on the subject would change his opinion He
felt that the only people concerned about this situation, the applicant and the neighbor,
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 20
"tV
were talking together and coming up with a viable solution that was acceptable to both
of them, and he felt it was ridiculous for the Planning Commission to worry excessively
about the interpretation of the Code when the people who care and are affected by the
decision have reached an agreement that they support.
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the project in its entirety, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt the better solution would be to continue the item, and
reminded the Commission that staff had made the recommendation to deny the
application He felt it was important to get the City Council input before considering this
application.
Chairman Long stated that he opposed the pending motion was forcing the Planning
Commission to decide the merits of the case, when a short continuance might service a
useful purpose
Commissioner Cartwright did not feel that anything was trying to get pushed through.
He noted that for 25 years every Planning Commission and City Council has been
interpreting the view with regards to 16 feet in a certain way. He did not think it made
sense to stop deciding cases because within two weeks the City Council would be
making a decision on view interpretation He could not think of anything positive that
could come out of the City Council one way or the other that would affect this
application.
Chairman Long disagreed that the Ordinance had been interpreted the same over the
years, and noted that this interpretation was incompatible with that of the View
Restoration Commission. He felt that this project was incompatible with the
neighborhood, and if compelled without further information and exploration of the issues
to vote on the merits of the project, he did not think he had sufficient facts to make the
necessary findings to support the project.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that the government works for the people and in this
instance there are two parties who not only agree on what should be placed at the site,
but met all of the steps of the process of approval, including approval of many of the
neighbors in the radius, and he felt the Planning Commission should listen to them. He
was disappointed with staff for not listening to the individuals involved in the project and
giving their input more merit. He felt the project should be approved.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt that staff does their best to listen to the applicants and
adjacent property owners, but many times things that are said in the public hearings are
not said to the staff He felt that staff follows the Ordinance with their recommendations,
and the Planning Commission may not always agree with their recommendations
Chairman Long added that staff's responsibility is not to do planning by vote, but rather
based on the fact -findings of the Ordinance
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 21
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the Planning Commission has a responsibility to the
public to make certain the City's policies are understandable by the average person,
and felt that in this situation the Planning Commission had not done a good job. He
stated that he even had difficulty understanding the policies in this situation. However in
this case he felt that he understood the facts well enough to make a decision.
Commissioner Cote felt that the decision made by the City Council could cause a
significant change to this neighborhood and this project, and she would like to hear from
the City Council before making her decision on this project. She further did not feel that
the neighbors were given the opportunity to view the rendering of the proposed project.
She stated that the rendering of the home solidified in her mind the issue that the staff
report identified with respect to neighborhood compatibility She would therefore prefer
to continue the item to a future meeting.
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff if the rendering of the home had been shown to the
neighbors
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that it was staff's understanding that plans
were taken to all of the property owners but not the actual rendering
Chairman Long re -opened the public hearing.
Frank Bostrom stated that he had personally taken the colored rendering and the plans
to all of the people on the required list
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
The motion to approve the project failed, (3-3) with Commissioner Cote, Vice
Chairman Mueller, and Chairman Long dissenting.
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to continue the project to the meeting of June 10 to
allow for input from the City Council regarding the 16 foot by right height limit,
seconded by Commissioner Cote. The motion failed, (3-3) with Commissioners
Lyon, Tomlin, and Cartwright dissenting.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to reconsider the last motion to continue the
item to June 10, seconded by Commissioner Cote. Approved, (6-0).
Commissioners Tomblin and Cartwright stated that they only voted in favor of the
motion because they did not want to see the project fail,
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
6. Minutes of April 22, 2003
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 22
Commissioner Lyon noted that the date of the meeting was incorrect on page 1 of the
minutes
On page 8 of the minutes, Commissioner Cartwright clarified a sentence on page 8 of
the minutes.
Chairman Long asked that on page 11 of the minutes the portions of the letter he read
should either be quoted in the minutes or paraphrased to shorten the quote.
Commissioner Cartwright clarified a sentence on page 13�of the minutes Healso felt
that there was a statement he made left out on page 13, in which he said he thought the
Planning Commission had agreed to take no action on the public streets until the impact
of the new private property restrictions were reviewed after a six month period.
Chairman Long did not feel the paragraph on page 13 fully reflected what he had said
and asked staff to review the tape
Commissioner Cartwright noted typos on page 14 of them minutes
Commissioner Cartwright moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded
by Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (4-0-2) with Commissioners Cote and Tomblin
abstaining since they were absent from that meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Vice Chairman Mueller and Director/Secretary Rojas stated they would not be at the
May 27 meeting
The meeting was adjourned at 12.20 a.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 13, 2003
Page 23