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February 25,
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 11, 2003
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Long at 7,03 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Cote led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Cartwright, Cote, Duran Reed, Lyon, Vice Chairman
Mueller, Chairman Long Commissioner Tomblin arrived at 7 10 p m
Absent: None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Blumenthal, Assistant Planner Yu, Assistant Planner Luckert, and
Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Cote moved to approve the agenda as amended to hear items 2, 3,
4, 5, 1, and 6, seconded by Commissioner Duran Reed. Approved without
objection.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed two items of late correspondence regarding agenda
item no 3, noted that there had been e-mail correspondence relating to the grading at
the project at 2 Yacht Harbor, which staff was working with the residents to obtain a
solution, and that any Commissioner wishing to attend the Planners Institute
Conference should contact his office to make arrangements for registration
Vice Chairman Mueller requested that there be a monthly update regarding the General
Plan Steering Committee
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS)
None
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2002-00249): 30778 Ganado Drive
Associate Planner Blumenthal presented the staff report, explaining that the item had
been continued to this meeting because of concerns raised at the last public hearing
regarding potential view impairment from second story bedroom windows on the
adjacent property He stated that the architect has now reduced the plate height of
room from 8 feet 1 inch to 7 feet 6 inches and reduced the roof pitch This allowed the
overall height of the addition to be reduced by approximately 2 feet. In addition to the
reduction of the height, he explained that the architect has reduced the size of the
addition to meet the front yard setback. He stated that staff has determined that all nine
findings could be made for the height variation, and as such staff was recommending
the Planning Commission adopt the height variation as presented, subject to conditions
of approval.
Commissioner Duran Reed noted there were several trees in the back of the home
which currently are below the sixteen -foot ridgeline of the home She asked if there was
anything in the Development Code that would allow the Planning Commission to place a
condition on the application that would make sure the trees don't ultimately block the
view of the neighbors next to the applicant
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the current Ordinance does not give the ability
to regulate trees until they are over the threshold that triggers review, which is sixteen
feet or the ridgeline, whichever is lower.
She asked if the applicant could voluntarily agree to have such a condition placed on his
application.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that the applicant could agree to keep the trees cut
below 16 feet
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if there was any difficultly with the Building Code allowing
a plate height to be only 7 feet 6 inches.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the Building Code has a minimum plate
height of 7 feet
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if the proposed window facing the north side would be
translucent.
Associate Planner Blumenthal answered that the bathroom window on the north side
would be required to be opaque glass.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 2
Mike Sverdlov 30778 Ganado Drive (applicant) stated that his architect has redesigned
the plan in accordance with the recommendations of the Planning Commission, and felt
that the new design should work for everyone involved.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Mr Sverdlov if he would be willing, on a voluntary
basis, to keep his trees trimmed below his ridgeline.
Mr. Sverdlov answered that he has always kept his trees cut low and did not think there
would be a problem in the future, however he was not willing to agree to have that as a
condition of his approval
Maches Grinell (architect) stated that from the beginning she had attempted to design
an addition that would give the same sense of design and the same type of roof as the
original home so that it did not look like an addition Given the opportunity to redesign
she was able to lower the roof two and one half feet lower than originally designed, and
noted that she would not be able to lower the roof any further.
Vice Chairman Mueller was encouraged that the architect had moved the front of the
fagade back out of the setback area and asked what was gained by adding the
additional foot at the north side of the home
Ms Grinell answered that it was added on to the master bedroom and bathroom, and
noted that it does not affect any views or the setback area.
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if it was common to reduce the plate height in order to
reduce the roof height.
Ms. Grinell answered that it was not the best way to reduce the roof height, as it would
cause much of the materials to have to be cut down during construction, and there
would be other adjustments that would have to be made.
Joan Barer 30770 Ganado Drive stated that due to the suggested alterations to the
proposed addition, she and her husband find the proposed addition acceptable Her
only concern was that the staff report stated the height reduction was 2.05 feet, and as
she had no way of knowing how to gauge the measurement, she wanted to make sure
the silhouette as it now exists would be what the actual addition would be when built
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin had no problem with the proposed addition and agreed with the
findings in the staff report
Commissioner Cote stated that her initial concerns were with finding no. 4, that requires
the proposed structure to be designed and situated in such a manner to minimize the
impairment of the view She felt that this had been addressed with the current proposed
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 3
design. She did want to see something in the Resolution requiring the bathroom
window be of translucent glass.
Commissioner Duran Reed also supported the staff recommendations and felt this was
an excellent example of what happens when neighbors get together and analyze and
discuss the plans to see if there are any potential problems.
Commissioner Lyon stated that as long as the Barry's have no objection to the project,
he was satisfied.
Commissioner Cartwright could find no significant view impairment with the proposed
addition He felt that lowering the ceiling to 7 feet 6 inches was a real compromise, and
commended the applicant for going the extra step He felt the project as designed was
consistent and compatible with the neighborhood and the privacy concern will be
mitigated with the treatment of the bathroom window. He therefore supported the staff
recommendations and the approval of the project.
Vice Chairman Mueller was very pleased that the ridgeline had been lowered and the
front fagade had been moved away from the street, making the addition look less like a
pop-up. He felt that adding the one foot to the north side of the home was a better
solution than adding into the setback area He suggested that the bathroom window be
of translucent glass to protect the privacy of the Barrys
Chairman Long agreed with the comments of the other Commissioners and voiced his
support of the proposed project
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2003-01 thereby
approving the Height Variation Permit (Case No.ZON2002-00249) with the
amendment that the Resolution require translucent glass in the bathroom window
on the north side of the addition, seconded by Commissioner Cote. Approved, (7-
0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Height Variation and Site Plan Review Permit (Case No. ZON2002-00605):
43-62 Exultant Drive
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report. She explained the scope of the project,
and noted that the applicant had applied for a height variation application in the past,
which was reviewed by the Planning Commission in December 2001 as well as
February 2002. She stated that the Planning Commission had found that the previously
proposed project created significant view impairment from the residence at 4343
Dauntless Drive, and therefore was not able to make the findings in a positive manner
to approve the project. She explained that the current application has been modified to
address the Planning Commission concerns in regards to the view impact. She stated
that staff has determined that the proposed project does not significantly impair the
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 4
ocean views from 4343 Dauntless Drive. She explained that during the review of the
previous project the Planning Commission had directed staff to analyze homes beyond
the immediate neighborhood. In light of that direction, staff provided a similar analysis
for this application, and based on the extended analysis staff found the proposed
addition was compatible with the neighborhood. She noted that during the comment
period staff had received a letter from a neighbor expressing concern regarding privacy.
Based on a site inspection, staff determined that the proposed addition would result in
privacy impact to the neighbor to the rear of the residence. Therefore staff was
recommending a condition that the proposed rear window be modified so that it is above
eye level or that the applicant plant vegetation along the top of the transitional slope
such that the neighbor's pool is screened from the second story window Therefore,
staff was recommending that the Planning Commission approve with conditions the
proposed height variation application.
Commissioner Cartwright asked for clarification as to which window the staff was
recommending be modified.
Assistant Planner Yu showed the Planning Commission photos to clarify the window in
question.
Commissioner Tomblin noted that there was also a deck and french doors at the back of
the addition and asked if there was a privacy concern with these.
Assistant Planner Yu answered that staff had determined that, as the deck is only 3 feet
wide and 10 feet long, it would not be much of a privacy concern She explained that
the privacy concern was when the applicant was using the living room and could look
out of the window and see the swimming pool area. Ms. Yu noted that the same
applied to the french doors She noted that there was currently a deck at the rear of the
property
Director/Secretary Rojas added that privacy issues were very difficult and there was a
lot of balancing that needed to be done He explained that staff tried to give weight to
different areas of the proposed project to assess privacy impacts, and therefore felt that
there was more likelihood of a loss of privacy from a large window that is part of the
living room rather than walking out onto a small deck
Commissioner Duran Reed asked if making the railing along the proposed balcony of a
solid material, if that would protect the privacy of the neighbors
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that the view impacts would still exist if someone were
standing on the deck and did not believe that making the railing solid would afford much
additional protection.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff to explain how planting foliage along the top of the
slope would help the privacy impacts
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 5
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that in looking at the photographs and trying to
gauge the line of sight from the windows to the lower property owner's swimming pool
area, staff felt that if the applicant were to plant some foliage towards the bottom of his
property line, the foliage would not have to be too high and will still afford some
screening of the pool area
Vice Chairman Mueller discussed the analysis in the staff report in comparing the
property with surrounding properties, specifically the discussion of lot coverage He
stated that he did not see any discussion on what the lot coverage was and how it
compared to other homes in the neighborhood.
Assistant Planner Yu responded that the lot coverage for this proposal was 42%,
however staff did not calculate lot coverage of the surrounding lots as staff does not
have the necessary information regarding the square footage of improvements on these
other lots
Chairman Long opened the public hearing.
Jeff Youn-ggren 4362 Exultant Drive (applicant) stated that this was the third time before
the Planning Commission with the project and he was a little surprised by the
development of a new problem at the rear of the project He explained the revisions he
had made to the project, at the direction of the Planning Commission, to come up with
the current design. He stated that through all of the revisions of the plan, the back of
the house has always been exactly the same and no changes have been made from the
original proposal, which the Planning Commission reviewed He stated that he was
unaware of an objection to the privacy issues until staff notified him approximately 10
days ago. He understood the issues of the neighbors and was happy to try to
cooperate with the privacy issue He requested that the Planning Commission allow
him to keep the proposed window, and he would gladly plant and maintain a hedge on
the lower lot line next to the pool. He noted that his home, by the way the homes were
originally built, overlooks the property below him and privacy is an issue because the
lots are tiered. He stated that the existing deck at the rear of the property has been
there since they bought the home in 1976
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr Younggren to clarify where the existing deck was
on his property.
Mr Younggren clarified on a photograph where his existing deck is located
Commissioner Cote noted that the members of the Planning Commission had changed
since Mr Younggren had originally applied for his height variation and that she had not
been given the minutes from the previous meetings to help her in understanding the
background and direction given previously. Therefore, she asked staff to clarify whether
this was a new privacy issue or if it was an issue that had not been properly addressed
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 6
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that staff had reviewed privacy as part of the original
application and had not thought it was an issue. However, with this latest submittal staff
had received a letter from the neighbor below calling out some very specific privacy
concerns about her pool area Staff visited the pool area, and based on that site visit
determined that there was indeed a privacy concern.
Debra Meffert 4380 Dauntless Drive stated that the privacy situation was brought to her
attention because she has recently put her house on the market for sale. She stated
that there had been quite a few people who wanted to purchase her home but changed
their mind when they came into the home and saw the silhouette above. She stated
that she was not aware that there was going to be such a large window looking down
into her yard She noted that this window and addition not only look into her pool area,
but into the large window in her kitchen, the large sliding glass door in her master
bedroom, and her master bathroom She felt that these were larger privacy issues than
the pool area.
Chairman Long asked Ms Meffert if planting the foliage would be a satisfactory solution
Ms Meffert felt there would still be a problem, as she had not realized what a concern
this addition was for the potential buyers of her property
Chairman Long understood the concern, however explained that the Planning
Commission's concern was for the issue of privacy and what the real issue of privacy is,
rather than what any potential buyers might think He asked Ms. Meffert if the privacy,
in her opinion, would be adequately protected if the shrubbery is in place.
Ms Meffert did not think the foliage would be adequate to protect her privacy, and it still
affects the value of her property.
Chairman Long asked Ms Meffert how the proposed deck and the exposure of portions
of her house to the deck compare to the privacy issues of the existing deck.
Ms. Meffert explained that the existing deck is at ground level and there is a retaining
wall around that deck She stated that when the applicant is sitting on that deck she
can only see the tops of their heads.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Ms Meffert her opinion of raising the level of the
proposed window, as proposed by staff
Ms Meffert responded that she would not have a problem with that suggestion.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked Ms. Meffert if she felt the french doors would create a
privacy issue.
Ms Meffert stated that she had not seen the complete plan, but did not think the french
doors would create a privacy issue She added that she was not trying to be difficult
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 7
and create a problem for the Younggrens and therefore she was focusing her concern
on the proposed window.
Director/Secretary Rotas clarified that the Guidelines state that given the variety and
number of options that are available to preserve indoor privacy, greater weight generally
will be given to protecting outdoor privacy than to protecting indoor privacy. He stated
that this was why staffs discussion was regarding the outdoor privacy.
Lisa Matura 4394 Dauntless Drive stated that she had said nothing about her concerns
earlier because she had been under the assumption that because she had signed the
papers saying she had seen the plans, she had signed away her rights to any
comments about the project. She stated that she also had not seen a picture of what
the back of the house would look like She stated that her concern was with the balcony
which looks down into her property and into her master bedroom and kitchen.
Chairman Long asked Ms Matura if she would be satisfied with planting foliage along
the bottom of Mr Younggren's property
Ms Matura did not see how planting foliage would help with her privacy issues.
Chairman Long asked Ms Matura if she now understood she was not signing away any
rights to object to the project.
Ms Matura responded that she understood that now, but learned of that only recently
She added that Commissioner Duran Reed's suggestion regarding solid balcony railings
was a good one and that may help her privacy issues
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the Younggrens could currently look down onto her
property
Ms. Matura answered that they could. She showed the Commissioners some additional
photographs that she took that she felt would show her privacy concerns.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:20 p m the Planning Commission took a short recess until 8:45 p.m at which time
they reconvened
PUBLIC HEARINGS (CONT)
Laurie Younggren 4362 Exultant Drive clarified that her existing deck is not at ground
level, but is elevated three feet. She stated that unfortunately the way the homes were
originally built, they are terraced and she can easily look into the homes below her She
stated that she would very much like to keep the window as proposed because of the
ocean view that it offered
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 8
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mrs. Younggren if she could currently look into the pool
area of her neighbor.
Mrs. Younggren answered that she can currently look into her neighbor's pool area.
Mr. Younggren (in rebuttal) stated that to say he was a little frustrated was an
understatement, as he felt he had done what staff and the previous Commission had
asked, had not changed the rear of the design, and now new problems have surfaced
that didn't exist before He felt that the resolution was for him to plant a hedge and
agreeing to keep the top of the hedge level with the railing of the current existing deck
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Younggren how he would maintain the hedges if
that was what the Planning Commission asked him to do.
Mr. Younggren answered that he would buy a hedge that would grow 10 to 13 feet tail
and he felt he would be able to maintain this hedge with no problem.
Debra Meffert stated that there was soil and railroad ties above her pool area and
questioned what would happen to her pool area if hedges were planted above it and
watered. She felt it might cause dart and mud to come into her deck and pool area
Chairman Long stated that the Younggrens would have the obligation, through their
homeowners insurance, to repair any damage that may be caused. He asked staff if
they had any concerns that the foliage might cause that problem
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there were many instances of foliage being
planted on slopes, but noted that it needs to be maintained properly and not over -
watered.
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lyon noted that because the way the lots were created, there was no
way to alleviate viewing from a higher property onto a lower property. He did not think
altering the window as suggested in the staff report would do anything to provide
privacy He stated that there were two other equally accessible areas in the family room
to look down on the property if someone were inclined to do so. He felt the best
solution was to provide a hedge of adequate height to reduce or obscure the direct
vision into the rear yards at 4380 and 4394 Dauntless Drive. He felt this was an
effective and reasonable solution. He reminded the Commission that the Code requires
the Planning Commission to give prime consideration to the exterior of the house, even
though that is not of the primary concern to the neighbors in this case.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed with Commissioner Lyon's comments In addition, he
felt that all of the findings could be made to support the proposed project. He could not
find any concern with cumulative view impairment, and believed that what was being
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 9
proposed was consistent and compatible with the surrounding neighborhood He felt
that the idea of the hedge would allow privacy to the neighbors below
Commissioner Duran Reed stated that after viewing the photographs of the properties
she felt that the proposed wood railing on the deck outside of the family was set back
far enough that it should not create a privacy issue to the Matura residence Discussing
the privacy concerns of Ms. Meffert, she did not think that reducing the size of the
windows would completely solve her privacy concerns, specifically because there is a
door to the left and a french door to the right of the window She felt that planting the
vegetation would be the best alternative and would solve the privacy issues, as long as
it was planted sufficiently high enough to protect the privacy of both neighbors while at
the same time providing the views that the applicant would like Therefore, she stated
she would support the staff recommendations with the modification that the vegetation
be planted to a sufficient height to afford privacy to the neighbors and protect the view
of the applicant. She felt that the height of the vegetation could be determined by the
Director.
Commissioner Cote felt that there had been a process breakdown concerning this
application. She was very frustrated that several issues had been brought out late in
the process, making if difficult for the Commissioners to go to the site to view first hand
what these issues entailed She further felt that while the applicant takes the plans to
the neighbors for their viewing, the neighbors should also contact the applicants to see
what is going on and how the proposed addition may affect their property. She felt it
was important for architects to be at Planning Commission meetings and that the
neighbors have reviewed the plans prior to the meeting With that being said, she
stated that she had been to the site and viewed the various view impacts and felt that
there was no significant view impact and also felt that the project was compatible with
the neighborhood. Regarding the privacy issue, she stated that it was clear to her,
because of the topography of the neighborhood, that there was an existing set of
circumstances with the existing deck that created privacy issues She stated that she
was attempting to balance the approach to deal with what the new addition might bring
rather than trying to solve existing privacy issues. With that in mind, she felt it was clear
that compromise was needed from all parties and that the proposal to plant the hedge at
an appropriate height would afford such a compromise. She therefore supported the
staff recommendations with the added condition to plant a hedge for privacy to the
neighbors pool area
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he supported and agreed with the comments of the
other Commissioners, and added that he would like to see staff have the discretion of
being able to set the height of the hedges and that the initial planting be of more mature
plants.
Vice Chairman Mueller acknowledged that the back of the proposed addition had not
changed much from the past submittals, however the attention had now moved from the
front of the addition to the back. He felt that was a good thing, in that staff and the
Planning Commission should consider the impact of the structure to the entire
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 10
immediate neighborhood He felt that the staff had made a reasonable effort to provide
several alternatives. He sympathized with the applicant regarding the issue of the
window, as he understood the desire to have a window that would support a reasonable
view. He felt that if planting the foliage on the slope would help block the view down to
the neighbor's yard, then that was the preferred solution
Chairman Long felt that this new design did not significantly impair views from the
neighboring properties and was compatible with the neighborhood. He noted that the
project is not much smaller than it was before, however the lots in the neighborhood
have large building pads and the proposed lot coverage is within the allowable limits.
He felt the redesign very significantly reduced the apparent mass of the project from the
street. He was very pleased with the applicant's suggestion to plant vegetation on the
slope, and noted that it was a very good and fair compromise to the privacy concerns.
He did not think that the window in question on the applicant's proposal should be
modified in any way.
Commissioner Lyon moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2003-02, thereby approving
the staff report's recommendation to approve the height variation, site plan
review, and minor exception permit, with the amendment to plant and maintain a
hedge of sufficient height and density to provide reasonable privacy to properties
at 4380 and 4394 Exultant Drive, to be approved by the Director of Planning,
Building, and Code Enforcement, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright.
Commissioner Cartwright suggested an amendment that the Director will approve
this hedge prior to the issuance of the final building permit. There being no
objection, the motion was amended.
Commissioner Tomblin suggested the planting of the hedges begin immediately so that
there is evidence that something is being planted to help mitigate the privacy situation
and that there be some indication to staff of the minimum size of the plants that are
initially planted.
Chairman Long felt that the motion empowers the Director to require larger plants be
initially planted
Director/Secretary Rous stated that such a condition has been required in the past, and
at that time the applicant planted the foliage early in the construction process, and while
the construction was proceeding the plants were growing, and prior to final he went to
the site to make sure the foliage was effective. He stated that the condition should
contain a phrase that the foliage be maintained at the height determined to be
adequate
The motion was approved, (7-0).
4. Height Variation Permit (Case No. ZON2002-00539): 44 Headland Drive
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page I I
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Assistant Planner Luckert presented the staff report, explaining that staff felt all nine
findings could be made to support the approval of the height variation. He noted that
staff did not think the proposed metal roof would be compatible with the immediate
neighborhood, however staff was recommending that the Planning Commission
approve the application with modifications and conditions that before building permits
are issued the applicant receive Director approval of an alternative roofing material that
is compatible with the immediate neighborhood.
Commissioner Cote asked what type of roofing material would be more compatible with
the immediate neighborhood
Assistant Planner Luckert answered that most of the homes in the immediate
neighborhood contain shake, shingle, and gravel roofs
Director/Secretary Rous added that staff looks at elements that exist in the immediate
neighborhood and 4f there is not an element to match, staff will determine it is not
compatible. Therefore, whatever roofing material is proposed, if it exists somewhere in
the neighborhood, staff will most likely determine it to be compatible
Vice Chairman Mueller asked if metal roofs were permitted in the City and if there were
any currently in the City.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there were currently metal roofs in the city, just
not in this neighborhood.
Chairman Long asked, if this project were built with a rock roof, could the applicant later
tear off the rock roof and replace it with a metal roof, and would that be acceptable
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that would be allowed as long as there were no
conditions on the project that they would have to maintain a certain type of roof.
Commissioner Tomblin felt that it was not only the roofing material that was not
compatible with the neighborhood, but that this was a radical design change that would
be different than the rest of the neighborhood
Commissioner Lyon felt that the strict interpretation of not finding another metal roof in
the neighborhood was not reasonable, as it would preclude any technological advances
that may allow a much better roof to be put into the neighborhood.
Chairman Long opened the public hearing.
David Berman 44 Headland Drive (applicant) showed the Planning Commission some
sketches of metal roofs, a picture of a house with a metal roof, and samples of the
roofing material He explained that he bought the house with the intention of doing a
major remodel, however he wanted to live there for some period of time to get the feel
of the neighborhood. He explained that in that time there has been many changes and
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 12
improvements on the street with a range of architectural styles and sizes. He explained
that he and his wife enjoy the country feel of their home and have asked their architect
to try to preserve that. He noted that they have taken a number of steps to plant a lot of
trees and preserve a lot of open space around the house. He stated that the metal roof
will cost him more but felt that it will increase the value of the house, as well as
enhancing the value of the other houses on the street. Further, because of the
proposed pitch of the roof the only roofing materials available, other than the metal,
would be a gravel roof, which he did not like In conclusion, he felt that the proposed
home will fit well into the neighborhood
Commissioner Tomblin asked if the neighbors were aware that the residence would
have the metal roof and if they had seen the illustrations of what the roof would look
like.
Mr Berman answered that he had not shown the picture to the neighbors, as at the time
he was planning a different type of roof material
Observing the examples of roofing material provided by the applicant, Commissioner
Cartwright asked Mr Berman which of the two colors he was proposing to use.
Mr Berman answered that he preferred to use the natural zinc color over the terra cotta
color. He noted that the natural zinc color was not painted on and the finish will become
a little grayer over time. He stated that the roof should last for the life of the house
without maintenance, as there would be no peeling, cracking, or chipping.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked if there were different ways the roofing material could
be applied to the roof, as the picture showed long sheets of metal on the roof.
Mr. Berman did not know, but noted that he would rather apply the metal in sheets to
make it more durable
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Berman if he had any alternative materials to be
considered
Mr. Berman answered that he would let the architect answer that question.
Mark Von Wodke 510 W. 10th Street, Claremont stated that he was the architect for the
project He felt that in addressing the roof, it must be put into the context of the site. He
noted that it was a one -acre site with a lot of vegetation, and the house has been
designed to sit very comfortably on the site. He felt that the issue regarding
compatibility was more with the colors chosen, as the house will not be visible to the
surrounding neighbors He distributed a color material board so the Commissioners
could see how the zinc colored roof will gain a patina over time and blend into the
context of the other colors selected. He stated that it was not really possible to apply
the metal roof in any other way but strips, as the wind can get under the roof if applied
any other way He felt that the metal roof was a very good solution for this property.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 13
Commissioner Cote noted that she has seen this type of roof in snow country and asked
if that was where this type of roof was normally found.
Mr Von Wodke answered that this type of roof is used quite a bit in snow country but is
not limited to that He felt that this type of roof works very well in warm weather
climates
Commissioner Tomblin noted that the roofline was nearly flat and asked if this was done
to prevent blockage of views or was it the applicant's selection for the design of the
house
Mr Von Wodke answered that they wanted to keep the roofline as low as possible
mainly because they wanted the house to nestle into the site and not be intrusive.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked what type of architecture this house would be
considered
Mr. Von Wodke answered that he characterized it as a healthy greenhouse, as it was
designed for natural day lighting, ventilation, passive solar, etc However he felt it was
also a clean, contemporary design that was not something that was trying to call
attention to itself
Commissioner Cartwright asked how long it will take the zinc roof to weather to a softer
gray color.
Mr. Von Wodke felt that within a year much of the shine will dissipate and there will be a
grayer, warmer color of roof
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the roof was highly reflective when first installed
Mr Von Wodke did not think it would reflect light.
Commissioner Cartwright asked why the applicant chose a metal roof.
Mr. Von Wodke responded that the metal roof was environmentally friendly, durable,
and was a very compatible roof.
Commissioner Duran Reed asked if the applicant would accept the terracotta color of
roof.
Mr Von Wodke answered that the preference was the zinc roof, however he would
accept the terracotta
Tracy Ely 24219 Neece Avenue Torrance stated that he was the general contractor for
the proposed project. He felt that the type of roof proposed was one of the most
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003
Page 14
efficient roofs made and knew of several similar roofs on the peninsula. He noted that
there are also many metal roofs in the beach cities, as the metal stands up well in the
salt air He discussed the type of material used for the proposed home and noted that it
,comes in 15 inch heights and it was much more desirable to keep the blocks in solid
dimensions rather than having to cut the top of the blocks. Therefore it was desirable to
add five inches to the ridge height of the home. He noted that the house sits back quite
a ways from the street, and felt that any roof put on the home will most likely not be
visible from the street
Mr Berman (in rebuttal) felt that was being proposed was an unconventional house
within a fairly conventional design. He stated that the house would be a showcase for
environmental design, as it would be built with the most energy efficient materials,
materials that would have the least impact on the environment, passive solar design,
passive solar features, and energy it will be energy efficient. He emphasized that the
house will be set back 50 feet from the street, there will a lot of plantings and trees, and
the roof would most likely not be visible from the street.
Chairman Long closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Duran Reed stated that her only issue with the project was finding no 8,
whether the proposed structure was compatible with the immediate neighborhood. She
noted that the architect had described it as a contemporary style of home and that there
was at least one other contemporary home in the neighborhood. She also looked at the
roof colors in the neighborhood, as she felt color was an issue when considering
neighborhood compatibility, and did not see any other silver or gray roofs in the
immediate neighborhood. She agreed with Commissioner Lyon that the City should not
limit the types of roofing materials to those that currently exist in the neighborhood, as
she felt that was doing a disservice to the homeowners. She did not have any issue
with the metal roof, but felt that if the roof were the terra cotta color it would blend in
more with the neighborhood.
Commissioner Lyon agreed with Commissioner Duran Reed's comments and felt that
neighborhood compatibility was very important when there are a series of homes that
are visible from the street In this case, however, the house is virtually by itself on a
one -acre lot and is very difficult to see from the street Therefore, he tended to
downgrade the importance of neighborhood compatibility in this case, and had no
problem with the metal roof. He also felt that what was important in neighborhood
compatibility was what the home will look like, not what it is made of. He particularly
liked the option of the terra cotta color of the metal roof, as it could very much look like a
the roof and be compatible with the neighborhood. He had no other problems with the
architectural features of the proposed home and would be in favor of approving the
project.
Commissioner Cote also felt that the neighborhood compatibility finding was the one
which gave her the most thought. She stated she was somewhat concerned with the
total square footage, lot coverage, and mass of the structure, however she felt that the
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February 11, 2003
Page 15
architect had taken considerable effort in the design to minimize the mass and look of
the home. She was also pleased that the house was set back from the street 50 to 60
feet. Regarding the metal roof, she was concerned that there were no other gray color
roofs in the neighborhood, but agreed that if the roof were the terra cotta color it would
look more like a the roof and blend in more with the neighborhood. She stated that she
was intrigued with the environmental aspects of the home and that, with the change in
color of the roof, could approve the project
Commissioner Tomblin stated he was not in support of the project, as he did not think
the neighbors really understood what was being built He stated that he would be much
more comfortable if a rendering, color board, and color scheme were made available for
all of the neighbors to view. He felt that if the neighbors then had no major oppositions
to the project, he would be more comfortable in supporting the project. He was very
uncomfortable supporting a project without the neighborhood really understanding what
was being built.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt the important thing to keep in mind is that the house itself
appears to be designed to fit into a large, tucked away lot. He was convinced that the
neighbors saw the design of the house and are familiar with the construction of the
house, with the exception of the roof. He felt that the terra cotta or a dark slate color
roof would be a better alternative than using the zinc roof, as he felt that might look
more like a commercial roof He discussed the finding regarding neighborhood, and did
not think it was necessary to go the extra step of having the neighbors review a
rendering and materials.
Chairman Long felt the only issue was neighborhood compatibility, and he felt the
finding was affected by a number of issues He agreed with Commissioner Lyon's
suggestion that in looking at neighborhood compatibility it makes a difference whether
one is looking at a neighborhood where materials are all very similar and houses are
very close together on small lots and are seen together, as opposed to a neighborhood
where there is a large difference in the types of houses and the lots are very large. He
felt that the way the house was designed and situated on this lot that size was not an
issue He did not think that the zinc roof was compatible with the neighborhood, but felt
the terra cotta roof would be. He felt the 5 -inch change in the ridgeline of the roof was
also acceptable. He felt he could support the project with the caveat that the roof be of
the terra cotta color.
Commissioner Cartwright did not think it was necessary to send the project back so that
the neighbors for further review. He too felt the zinc roof looked like a commercial roof,
but could support the project if it were a terra cotta color He noted that the original
proposal called for a terra cotta color roof, however the owner had changed his mind
and wanted the zinc color Therefore, he felt that the neighbors might already be
expecting the terra cotta colored roof.
Commissioner Cote asked staff if the original plan shown to the neighbors specified a
metal roof
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February 11, 2003
Page 16
Assistant Planner Luckert responded that he did not recall the original plans specifying
a metal roof, however the applicant expressed to him at a later date that -the material
would be metal.
Both Commissioner Cartwright and Vice Chairman Mueller stated their surprise that the
original plans did not specify the type or color of the roofing material, but felt that the
terra cotta color was close enough to a the look that they could support the project.
Commissioner Lyon moved to approve the proposed project as presented,
thereby adopting P.C. Resolution 2003-03, with the understanding that the metal
roof material will be the terra cotta color and that the ridgeline will be raised by 5
inches, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (6-1) with
Commissioner Tomblin dissenting.
Chairman Long noted that it was 11:00 and asked whether the Planning Commission
wished to suspend the rules to take up new business after 11:00. There being no
objection, the rule was suspended
Commissioner Duran Reed left the meeting at 11:00 p.m.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 11:00 p.m the Planning Commission took a short recess until 11:10 p.m. at which
time they reconvened
5. Site Plan Review Permit (Case No. ZQN2002-00570): 28500 Western Ave
Chairman Long asked the Planning Commission if they wished to waive the staff report
There being no objection, the Planning Commission waived the staff report
EI 11��1111 111�1111 III I !III
li
Louie Aurelio stated that he was the project architect for Smart N Final stated that there
was a concern regarding the noise of the air conditioning units on the roof, and
explained that based on OSHA the allowable noise from an 8 hour time span is 80
decibels however his roof equipment will be at 85 decibels, per manufacturers
specifications.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff to clarify if the City code requires the equipment
be at 65 decibels.
Assistant Planner Luckert stated that the code requires the equipment run at no louder
than 65 decibels between 7 p m and 7 a.m., 7 days a week.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the existing units comply with that code
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February 11, 2003
Page 17
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that there was no noise analysis data on the existing
units, however from previous staff reports it was staffs impression that the units were
most likely operating at less than 70 decibels
Chairman Long asked Mr. Aurelio if he could take steps to comply with the City
requirement
Mr. Aurelio answered that the manufacturer's specifications called out for 85 decibels,
however there will be screen walls around the units which will decrease the noise
issues. He noted that 85 decibels is measured right in front of the unit, and the noise
reading of 65 decibels will be taken from the property line.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that staff has recommended a noise study after 3
months and if the units are not in compliance with the Code they will have to be brought
to compliance, and asked Mr. Aurelio if there would be a problem doing that.
Mr. Aurelio did not think there would be a problem meeting the City Code requirements
Jeff Forman 600 Citadel Drive, stated he was a representative for Smart N Final and
that there were no objections to the staff report and recommendations and that they will
make sure the units meet the 65 decibel requirement at the property line.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to approve the staff recommendations, subject
to the conditions, thereby adopting P.C. Resolution 2003-04, seconded by
Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (6-0).
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of January 28, 2003
Commissioner Cote noted a typo on page 11 of the minutes.
Vice Chairman Mueller added some wording for clarify to a paragraph on page 12 of the
minutes.
The minutes were approved, as amended, without objection. (6-0).
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
6. Pre -Agenda for the meeting of February 25, 2003
"916111W
The meeting was adjourned at 11 22 p m
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February 11, 2003
Page 18
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 2003