PC MINS 20030114Approved
January
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 14, 2003
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Long at 7.05 p.m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Director/Secretary Rojas led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ATTENDANCE
Present Commissioners -Cartwright, Cote, Lyon, Mueller, Tomblin, and Chairman
Long
Absent Commissioner Duran Reed was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, City
Attorney Lynch, Staff Liaison Alverez, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Tomblin moved to approve the agenda as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (6-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas congratulated Chairman Long on his appointment as
Chairman of the Planning Commission He also reported that the City Council would be
hearing two appeals of Planning Commission decisions, and that the joint workshop
would be held on February 8. He also distributed two items of correspondence received
on the i)c(@.rpv com website.
City Attorney Lynch reported that new legislation relating to conflict of interest now
requires that a Commissioner abstaining from an item must announce for the record
that there is a conflict of interest and then the Commissioner must leave the room
entirely
Commissioner Tomblin reported that he had spoken to Mrs Sartori, a past applicant
Commissioner Cote gave a brief update on the General Plan Sub -Committee.
Commissioner Mueller stated that he had several discussions with residents regarding
the RV issue and he encouraged them to come before the Planning Commission to
express their comments and views.
1. Selection of Vice Chairman of the Planning Commission
Commissioner Cote nominated Commissioner Mueller as the Vice Chairman of the
Planning Commission, seconded by Chairman Long. Commissioner Mueller was
selected as Vice Chairman without objection.
CONSENT CALENDAR
2. Minutes of November 26 2002
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff to verify the vote regarding the approval of the
Agenda on page 2 of the minutes
Commissioner Cartwright moved to approve the minutes as possibly amended,
seconded by Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner Cote
abstaining since she was absent from that meeting.
3. Minutes of December 10, 2002
Commissioner Cartwright moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded
by Commissioner Lyon. Approved, (6-0).
NEW BUSINESS
4. Refresher talk regarding the legal responsibilities of conducting
commissioner site visits.
City Attorney Lynch stated that the general guidance provided in the past to the
Planning Commissioners was to refrain from engaging in discussions and comments
with either the applicant or any other property owner She stated that the
Commissioners should encourage the applicant or other property owners to come to the
Planning Commission meeting to share their comments with the entire Commission,
and note that Commissioners cannot discuss the project and their determination of the
protect must be made at the open public hearing. She explained that in view
restoration cases site visits were mandatory for the applicant's property, view owner's
property, and any foliage owner that requests a visa from the Commission. She
reminded the Commission that there should not be more than two or three
Commissioners visiting a site at any one time
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 2
Commissioner Tomblin asked for clarification regarding responses to e-mail that comes
through the pc(oirpv corn site and if the Commissioners should respond to that e-mail.
City Attorney Lynch felt it was acceptable to acknowledge receipt of the e-mail, but not
to enter into discussions via e-mail
Director/Secretary Rojas added that when e-mail is received at pc("�rpv com he would
respond to the e-mail, thanking the sender and letting them know that the e-mail has
been forwarded to the Planning Commissioners.
5. Insurance requirements
Commissioner Cartwright moved to continue the item to the City
Council/Planning Commission joint workshop on February 8, seconded by Vice
Chairman Mueller.
Commissioner Lyon felt it was the duty and responsibility of the Planning Commission to
make a recommendation to the City Council regarding this item, and therefore the
Planning Commission should discuss the issue and make a recommendation to present
at the joint meeting
Director/Secretary Rous explained that there would be a packet prepared for the joint
workshop which will contain a staff report that the Planning Commission has already
reviewed along with additional information requested by the Planning Commission.
City Attorney Lynch felt that it would be possible to continue this item to the next
Planning Commission meeting so that the Commission could review the additional
information in advance of the joint workshop and to ask any questions to the City
Attorney or staff that they felt needed clarification
Commissioner Lyon did not object to continuing the item to the joint workshop if the
purpose was to get the City Council's opinions on the issue of insurance requirements
Commissioner Cote felt it would be very useful to hear the thoughts and comments of
the City Attorney on the matter prior to the joint workshop.
Chairman Long suggested agendizing the item to the next Planning Commission
meeting in order for the Planning Commission to hear the City Attorney's report as well
as the staff report prior to the joint workshop.
Commissioner Cartwright revised his motion to continue the item to the Planning
Commission meeting of January 28, 2003 to review the information presented
prior to the joint workshop with the City Council, seconded by Vice Chairman
Mueller. Approved, (6-0).
6. View Restoration Orientation — procedures and information materials
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 3
Director/Secretary Rotas explained that the View Restoration Commission has been
disbanded and the Planning Commission would now be hearing the View Restoration
cases. He explained that the process was a very lengthy and detailed process,
however the Planning Commission would see very little of that, as most of it would be
dealt with at the staff or mediation levels. He further explained that the View
Restoration Commission had made suggested changes to the Ordinance that would be
reviewed by the City Council and Planning Commission at their joint workshop.
City Attorney Lynch explained that since the current ordinance had been challenged in
court and upheld, she was very reluctant to make changes to the Ordinance unless it
was absolutely necessary, as it would open up a new statute of limitations
Director/Secretary Rojas gave a power point presentation that gave an overview of the
view ordinance, which involves view restoration and view preservation permits. He
described the procedures involved with processing view restoration permits and appeals
of view preservation permits that the Planning Commission would be hearing
Chairman Long asked how many Commissioners would constitute a quorum in a view
restoration hearing
City Attorney Lynch stated that was a good issue to discuss at the joint workshop, and
there should be a change made in the guidelines to clarify what constitutes a quorum.
Director/Secretary Rojas discussed the necessary findings the Planning Commission
would be required to make for the view restoration and view preservation cases and
showed some examples of cases where the trees were determined to cause significant
view impairment.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 9:15 p m the Planning Commissioner took a short recess until 9:34 p.m. at which
time they reconvened.
NEW BUSINESS (CONTINUED)
7. Commercial Antennas
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the Commission had requested that staff
discuss the procedures involved with the commercial antenna process. He noted that
this item was prompted by the approval of an antenna at the Miraleste School site that
the school board was not happy with. He stated that the City Council had a meeting
with the school board and as a result, certain procedures were agreed upon in the
approval of antennas on school property, and noted that attached to the staff report was
the outcome of the meeting and the agreed upon solution Regarding commercial
antennas in general, he noted that the Commissioners have a copy of the Code and the
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 4
Guidelines which sets forth the requirements for the application procedure and the
review process
Chairman Long felt it was very important to have documentation from the school board
stating that they understood and approved the design, location, and height of any
proposed antennas He felt this documentation would best be done in the form of a
resolution from the school board.
Commissioners Cartwright and Lyon felt that the current guidelines and procedures
have worked very well in the past, were entirely adequate, and did not think there was a
reason to change them.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt it was important that there always be a mock-up of the
antenna required, as he did not feel most people could truly understand what the
antenna will look like but simply reviewing the plans
Commissioner Lyon moved to leave the current code in its present form,
recognizing that the guidelines are used by the Commission as an adjunct to the
Code, and secondly that staff continue their dialogue with the school district
concerning the specific process used in dealing with antennas on school district
sites, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin.
Chairman Long suggested an amendment to the motion to instruct staff to strictly
enforce the requirements of mock-ups as required by the Guidelines.
Commissioner Lyon agreed to the amendment and there was no objection from
the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the Guidelines and Code are very thorough and work
very well and he would be reluctant to change either because of a problem with the
school district that he felt came about because of miscommunication.
Vice Chairman Mueller felt it was important to amend the Code so that it is consistent
with the height variation guidelines, as the Planning Commission would be seeing many
antennas in the future, and each one requires some concern about view.
Chairman Long was inclined to agree, however he felt that the Commission would be
looking more broadly at the antenna ordinance because of recent lawsuits, and he
would like to do the changes all at once rather than in bits and pieces. Therefore, he
felt the Planning Commission could achieve their goal simply by implementing the
motion.
The amended motion passed, (6-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 5
8. Proposed code amendment — wall height
Director/Secretary Rojas explained the current Development Code requirement that
walls less than three feet apart shall be measured as a single units for purposes of
height, which staff interprets meaning from the closest points — the face of the upslope
wall to the back of the down slope wall He explained that there had been discussion
that since the intent of the code was to address aesthetics, perhaps a different
approach would be to measure from face to face, as that is what one would be looking
at. He stated that staff was looking for direction from the Planning Commission as to
whether they wanted to initiate a code amendment, and if the Commission agrees to
clarify or change the way the wall is measured it would have to go before the City
Council for their approval before going through the more formal code amendment
process.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the further apart walls are the more it softens the
appearance of the walls, and walls that are too close together begin to look like one
large wall However, he was not sure what the optimum distance between the walls
was that would create the perfect balance
Chairman Long agreed that a line had to be drawn somewhere, and the question was
exactly where that line should be drawn to achieve the goal of looking like two walls as
opposed to one wall. He noted that the code is very specific in that the walls shall be
measured at their closest points, and he felt there was only one conceivable
interpretation to what the words of the code say regarding how the distance between
the walls shall be measured.
Commissioner Lyon agreed, and explained that it was not a matter of interpretation but
rather a matter of changing a few words in the Code. He stated that his proposal was to
say, rather than measured from their closest point, to say as measured between their
front faces. He felt that the critical issue in making two walls not appear as one wall is
the distance between front faces. He also agreed that there needed to be sufficient
room in between to plant vegetation, as the vegetation would break up the massive
appearance of the walls. He therefore did not think the wording in the current code was
relevant when concerned about aesthetics
Vice Chairman Mueller stated that when reviewing these types of situations he goes to
the General Plan where it discusses altering the natural terrain and encouraging
structural techniques that conform to the terrain rather than altering the terrain to
support the structure He felt that the Code was clear in that there should be a
separation between the walls, and measuring the walls from front face to front face
would not give this separation, as one could add a front face of bricks to the bottom wall
to create a larger area of separation without having to actually create a larger area of
separation between the two walls He agreed that there was some reasonable amount
of distance between walls that would create the perfect balance between the two walls
He was not willing to change the current Code or the interpretation of the Code
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 6
v
The Planning Commissioners discussed methods of measuring the distance and their
duty to uphold the code, as well as the option that applicants have of applying for a
variance in certain cases Commissioner Lyon stated that he would be willing to back
off of the proposal to change the code, as long as the Planning Commission recognizes
they have the prerogative to make exceptions to the code by following the proper
procedures
Chairman Long clarified that the Planning Commission could grant exceptions, however
they would have to be done within the confines of the code.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the Planning Commission has the latitude to have
some compassion, show the human touch, and use common sense when making
decisions. He felt that the Code was not so rigid that the Planning Commission could
not make exceptions when the circumstances warrant it, and therefore he was not
willing to change the Code.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he did not participate in the hearing on the walls at
Rue de la Pierre, and nothing he has said at this meeting should be taken as a
judgment on the decision made by the Planning Commission on that case.
Vice Chairman Mueller moved to make no change to the current code, seconded
by Commissioner Cote.
Commissioner Lyon suggested amending the motion to state that the Planning
Commission recognizes that they have the authority to make an exception to a
code requirement through due process, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright.
There being no objection, the motion was amended.
There being no objection, the amended motion was approved, (6-0).
8. Distribution of staff reports
As it was after 11.00 Commissioner Tomblin moved to suspend the Planning
Commission rules, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (6-0).
Looking at the time line in the staff report, Chairman Long asked if there was a way for
draft reports to be issued earlier with supplements distributed when the reports are final
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that because of the 30 day notice period and
because staff could not form their recommendation until all input has been received, he
did not think that it would be possible to provide a draft report at an earlier date.
Commissioner Long noted that the timetable in the staff report only accurately describes
the timetable for height variations, and asked if staff could provide packages to the
Planning Commission earlier for everything but height variations.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 7
Director/Secretary Rotas acknowledged that in theory such staff reports could be
provided earlier but that he honestly did not know for certain, as he would have to look
at how changing the delivery schedule would affect the rest of the City's work load,
especially the preparation of staff reports for the City Council.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed that it would be nice to have a longer period of time to
make site visits, but felt that it would not only be difficult for staff but the applicant to
collect all of the needed materials and information earlier as well.
Chairman Long stated that he was not only concerned about the Planning Commission
receiving the staff reports enough in advance to be able to read them, but the applicants
as well
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if it was possible to change the Planning
Commission meting date to Wednesday or Thursday, which would then give the
Commissioners a few more days to read the staff reports
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that he would have to look into the procedure for
changing the day of the Planning Commission meetings and if it was even possible, and
noted it would likely require City Council approval He felt that if the day of the meeting
were moved and if there was any way to get staff reports out on Wednesday evenings
instead of Thursday, that would give the Commission almost a week to review their
packets
Commissioner Cote discussed the idea of e -mailing the staff reports to the
Commissioners in addition to receiving the packets.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt this was something the staff could do but that the
attachments could not be e-mailed
Commissioner Cartwright moved to direct staff to look into the possibility of
sending out the packets one or two days earlier, the implications of moving the
Planning Commission meeting to another day, and the possibility of e -mailing
staff reports to the Commission, seconded by Commissioner Tomblin. Approved,
(6`p)•
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 11 28 p m.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 14, 2002
Page 8