PC MINS 20020122Approved
February, 2002
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 22, 2002
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lyon at 7 05 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Long led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present- Commissioners Cartwright, Long, Mueller, Vannorsdall, and Chairman
Lyon
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Mihranian, Contract Planner Gus Romo, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Without objection, the agenda was approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed two items relating to Agenda Item No. 5 as well as
a memo regarding recruitment for City Commission and Committee positions and a draft
staff report prepared by Councilman Stern for an upcoming City Council agenda item
dealing with expanding the scope of the Commissions.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that at the City Council meeting of January 12 the City
Council discussed the General Plan and asked staff to present the General Plan
policies to the City Council for their review at a future meeting.
Director/Secretary Rojas introduced the new Associate Planner, Dave Blumenthal, to
the Planning Commission.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of January 8. 2002
Commissioner Long felt that comments from Commissioner Cartwright were not
included on page 3 of the minutes and asked that the tape of the meeting be reviewed
and his comments be added.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed.
The minutes were approved as amended, (5-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Grading Permit No. 2191: Larry Peha (applicant) and Mr. and Mrs. Heru
Wiredja (owner), 3815 Palos Verdes Drive South
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report explaining the applicant's request to
delete condition no. 19 from the Conditions of Approval. He explained condition no. 19
and that from a visual perspective, as seen from Palos Verdes Drive South, the
requirement to construct a pitched roof would visually enhance the structure's
appearance. Therefore, staff recommends the Commission affirm the condition while
the applicant requests the Planning Commission delete the condition to allow a flat roof.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Larry Peha 67 14th Street San Pedro, stated that at the original meeting there was
discussion about the height of the building in respect to the neighboring properties to
the rear as well as slope stability; however, he did not recall there was a discussion
regarding condition no. 19. Mr. Peha explained that he was proposing a flat roof over
the living room and entry area rather than the pitched roof as recommended by staff.
He felt a pitched roof would bring the overall plate level down, thereby reducing the size
of the windows He noted that there was a commanding view from the living room area.
He stated that he would bring the grade up at the front of the building where the living
room is to try to minimize the height of the structure at that point. He also felt that
landscaping would mitigate the mass of the building.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that it was an unintentional oversight by the Planning
Commission not to specifically address the condition at the original meeting. He asked
Mr Peha to address staff's concerns that the flat roof would be a significant distraction
for drivers traveling along Palos Verdes Drive South.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 2
r
Mr. Peha responded that the amount of flat roof he was proposing would be very
insignificant in comparison to the entire building. He also distributed a photo board
showing other flat roofs in the immediate neighborhood.
Chairman Lyon stated that staff was properly concerned about the appearance of the
house and principally that as one drives east along Palos Verdes Drive South this
residence would be seen for an extended period of time. He did not think that the fact
there were other flat roofs in the area was a dominant consideration As a general rule,
he did not think the Planning Commission should change the architectural style of plans
without good cause.
Commissioner Mueller asked what the height of the proposed residence was as
compared to the home at the corner
Mr Peha stated that he had worked extensive with staff to determine the best
placement for this residence on the lot.
Commissioner Mueller stated that because of the size and position of the house he was
concerned about the flat roof He asked about the upper windows and what view would
be seen from those windows
Mr. Peha responded that the upper windows would encompass more of a sky view
Commissioner Vannorsdall did not think getting more sky view was a good reason to
have a bigger window.
Commissioner Cartwright asked what the depth of the proposed flat roof would be.
Mr. Peha answered that it went back approximately 17 feet in addition to the deck area
off the master bedroom
Chairman Lyon asked how much of the sky view would be eliminated with a pitched
roof
Mr Peha compared it to watching a 42 -inch television as compared to a 72 -inch
television, as it was more encompassing.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he drove Palos Verdes Drive South several times
to try to visualize the residence with a flat roof or a mansard roof. He felt that when this
structure comes into view one is looking over the existing white house on Forestall He
stated that house always caught his attention, no matter which way he was driving on
Palos Verdes Drive South He felt that, even when looking over the existing house, it
would still be the predominant view because it was stark white and had sharp angles to
it. Therefore, he did not think it really mattered what the applicant did with the roof
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 3
Senior Planner Mihranian agreed. However he added that staff felt that regardless of
the type of development that occurred on this lot there will be a prevailing appearance
from Palos Verdes Drive South. He noted that there was a condition that required the
new home to be painted in earth tones to mitigate such concerns. He also stated staff
felt that incorporating a pitched roof into the design was another way to try to soften the
visual appearance of the house from Palos Verdes Drive South
Commissioner Cartwright did not feel a flat roof was a significant issue in regards to
softening the appearance of the house from Palos Verdes Drive South.
Commissioner Mueller asked what would prevent the owners from using the flat roof as
an extension of the adjacent deck
Mr. Peha answered that the residents would have to step over the deck railing
Furthermore, the roof would be designed with a different live load than the deck, as it
was very rare that there would be people standing on the roof. Mr. Peha added that he
has work extensively with staff to come up with a house that was much smaller and less
visible from the street than the original proposal.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked what type of roof covering would be used on the flat
roof
Mr. Peha stated that a colored rock roof would be used on the flat area
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Mueller stated that because of the location of the house in regards to
Palos Verdes Drive South and the location of the house on the slope, it would be very
visible from the street He was concerned about the flat roof as he felt it would give the
house a massive look from the street. He agreed with staff that anything that could be
done to soften the look of the house from Palos Verdes Drive South should be
integrated into the design He did not consider the loss of a sky view from the windows
to be a significant reason to eliminate the pitch roof condition
Commissioner Long agreed with Commissioner Mueller's comments. He felt that when
there was a difference of opinion between the staff and the architect regarding an
aesthetic issue, he would be inclined to go with the recommendations of the staff. He
did not think that preservation of a sky view was a compelling reason to allow a flat roof
with the deletion of condition no. 19.
Commissioner Vannorsdall did not think a flat roof would make an impact one way or
the other along Palos Verdes Drive South and therefore supported the architect in this
issue
Commissioner Cartwright felt that larger windows not only provided more of a sky view
but also provided more light as well as a feeling of expansiveness He also felt that
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 4
since the proposed residence was to be painted in earth tones and when landscaping
was completed, that whether or not there was a flat roof would make little difference
Chairman Lyon stated that as a general rule he was inclined to side with an architect
when it came to aesthetic decisions. However, he understood the staff's concern with
the appearance of the residence from people driving on Palos Verdes Drive South He
noted that there have been no public comments regarding the acceptability or
unacceptability of a flat roof on the residence. He did not think a flat roof would make
much of a difference with this structure
Commissioner Cartwright moved to delete Condition No. 19 of P.C. Resolution
No. 2001-36 as adopted by the Planning Commission on October 9, 2001, thereby
amending the conditions of approval to allow a flat roof over the living room,
rotunda, and entry foyer, seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (3-
2) with Commissioners Long and Mueller dissenting.
Commissioner Mueller explained that he supported the staff's recommendation and
their expertise in this situation should be considered because of their broad view of City,
as compared to the architect He stated that he looked to the staff for a more fair
judgment that would represent all of the residents of the City. Commissioner Long
agreed.
Commissioner Vannorsdall raised a question regarding Condition No. 31 regarding
outside lighting.
Chairman Lyon asked if that could be discussed as it was not publicly noticed
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that it could not be discussed without a public notice
He noted that the condition read that the exterior lighting would be reviewed and
approved by the Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement.
Commissioner Vannorsdall felt that exterior lighting on curved roads should come
before the Planning Commission in the future
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Height Variation No. 930, Grading. Permit No. 2279, and Minor Exception
Permit No. 596: Ron and Blanca Letvin (applicant), 6528 Nancy Road
Senior Planner Mihranian presented a brief staff report stating that there had been
concerns raised over the accuracy of the silhouette. He explained that the survey of the
lot had been done incorrectly, subsequently placing the silhouette in the wrong location
Therefore, the silhouette was corrected according to the new survey and the public
nonce was sent. Therefore staff requests the project be continued to the February 26,
2002 meeting.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 5
Without objection, the Planning Commission accepted staff's recommendation
and continued the item to the meeting of February 26, 2002.
4. Height Variation No. 938: Lane Building Designs (applicant) and Jeffrey
and Laurie Younggren (owner) 4362 Exultant Drive
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the applicants have requested more time and staff
was recommending the application be continued to February 12, 2002.
Without objection, the Planning Commission accepted staff's recommendation
and continued the item to the meeting of February 12, 2002.
5. Conditional Use Permit No. 226, Grading Permit No. 2296, and
Environmental Assessment No. 742: Verizon Wireless Services, Mr. John
Koos (applicant) 32201 Forestal Drive.
Gus Romo began by explaining he was a contract employee with the Planning
Department hired to help out while the City was hiring new staff Mr Romo then
presented the staff report explaining that staff continues to be in opposition of the
proposal, even though it has been revised He gave a brief history of the project and
stated that the applicant submitted a revised project to the City in early January He
stated that, though the project has been revised, it has not been revised to meet all of
staffs and the residents original concerns. He explained that staff has received written
comments from four surrounding property owners in opposition of the project He
explained that the current antenna is camouflaged as a pine tree and a new view
obstruction is being proposed in a spot where there is presently no view obstruction
Taking the view preservation and restoration ordinance into account, staff believes the
mono -pine design alone is not the answer, but rather the mono -pine being placed in an
area no visible to residents or projecting in front of ocean views. He stated that staff
believes this installation of the mono -pine would be harmful to the natural environment
by creating adverse impact and is therefore recommending denial without prejudice of
the project.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if there were any other mono -pine structures on the
peninsula
Mr. Romo stated that he was not aware of any other mono -pines on the peninsula.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
John Koos (applicant) represent Verizon Wireless stated that he has met with the
residents at the site and with the planning staff to discuss design options for the facility.
He stated that a mono -pine similar to the one proposed has been erected in the city of
Cypress and he displayed a picture of that pine. He stated that this was a state-of-the-
art mono -pine and was very realistic and that the antennas were virtually invisible in
relationship to the branches. He stated that he was now proposing cooling cabinets,
approximately 7 feet in height and that these cooling system utilizes the natural
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 6
environment to cool the unit. He stated that the noise created by this unit should be
inaudible to the surrounding residents, as it produced a noise level of 65 dba from 4 feet
away from the site Mr Koos stated that Verizon had a site to the east and a site to the
west of the proposed location and there were no other carriers in between that they
could co -locate with He stated that site locations are determined by need and
customer complaints.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that other wireless companies have fairly good
reception along Palos Verdes Drive South without the need for an antenna tower at
Ladera Linda He was curious as to why other carriers could achieve this whereas
Verizon had such trouble with reception in that area and felt they needed a pole at
Ladera Linda to achieve the reception.
Mr Koos answered that at one time Verizon covered the area fairly well. However, due
to the increase in usage and subscribers in the area, what was covered by two sites is
now being overloaded and a third site was necessary
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Koos if he had looked at other locations at the site
Mr. Koos responded that Verizon was very flexible as to where the pole could be
located at the site, however the City Manager's office, as owner of the site, initially
provided some direction on placement and felt that the raw land near the tennis court
was a more appropriate location rather than the area near the school
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the City Manager's Office and City Council has to
grant authority for the application Once this is granted the application goes through the
regular review process through the Planning Department and the Planning Department
then looks for the best site on the property to minimize impacts He explained that he
had assured Mr. Koos that the Planning Department was open to any location that could
best camouflage the antenna.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff to comment on the area to the southeast, near the
field, as an alternative location.
Associate Planner Mihrarnan explained that the recreation fields are owned by the
school district and the City owns Ladera Linda Community Center and the excess
parking lot near the tennis courts He stated that the transition slope by the tennis
courts is owned by the school district. He thought that the area Commissioner
Cartwright was asking about was owned by the City
Commissioner Mueller stated that the Planning Commission had approved the location
of a Sprint antenna on a telephone pole near the site and asked why Verizon couldn't
co -locate on that telephone pole.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 7
Mr Koos explained that the Sprint site on the telephone pole was a micro -cell and the
power provided was very minimal and very targeted as compared to the cell site Verizon
was requesting.
Commissioner Mueller asked if Verizon could substitute two or three smaller antennas
at various sites for the one big mono -pine site and get the same type of coverage
Mr. Koos stated it was not economical for Verizon to do that and there was also a
design issue involved. He felt there would have to be three separate freestanding
facilities in the vicinity as compared to the one.
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that the Planning Commission has asked for an
overall present and future plan with each antenna application, and asked if one had
been submitted with this application
Director/Secretary Rous responded that staff had a plan, but did not have it available
for the meeting. He noted that the plans are always changing
Don Richardson 32206 Helm Place stated that the open space in question was used
frequently for soccer and there was always something going on in the field He did not
think it would be right to prevent the use of the open space by putting the facility in that
location He noted that Mr Koos had commented that the reason this antenna was
needed was because of increased customer use and it was a demand issue. He was
concerned that a precedence was being set and that in the future there could be a
Ladera Linda mono -pine forest He acknowledged that the City was required to allow
the wireless companies to provide service in the City, but felt the City should encourage
the companies to look harder and longer for acceptable alternatives
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Mr. Richardson how this proposed mono -pine would
impact him
Mr. Richardson responded that the proposed tree would impact him less than the
previous proposal, however he did not know what the noise impact would be at 65 db.
At 8:50 p.m. the Commission took a short recess to 9.10 p m. at which time they
reconvened
PUBLIC HEARINGS (CONT)
Cecil Fleener 32206 Valor Place stated that outside of his living room is a pool and deck
where he does much of his entertaining during the summertime He stated that he
enjoys the view looking up the slope as there is a lot of natural vegetation He was
unhappy that, if approved, he would have to look at the mono -pine, which he did not
think looked like any kind of tree he has ever seen. He said that the area was unique, in
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 8
that at night it was extremely quiet and they could hear anyone who was out on the
slope talking. He was concerned about the air conditioning cabinets and the noise the
air conditioning units would make
Commissioner Vannorsdall did not think the units were noisy, however he suggested
placing the cooling units twenty feet back from the edge of the slope toward the ocean.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed that if the cabinets were moved back Mr Fleener
would not be able to see them from his house or yard He asked Mr. Fleener if he
would have a concern if the mono -pine were done sufficiently so that it looked realistic
Mr. Fleener did not feel that the tree would blend in with anything and would stick out
like a sore thumb
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Long noted that at previous hearings regarding this matter he had
recused himself erroneously as he had thought the applicant was a client of his law firm
He has since confirmed that the applicant was not a current nor former client. He stated
that he was absent from a portion of the previous hearing but has since reviewed the
record and is familiar with the minutes of the meeting. Therefore, he did not feel he
should recuse himself from this application.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked staff if there was a time constraint due to the Permit
Streamlining Act, as he felt it may be very difficult to make a decision on the application
at this meeting.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that with the original application there is a time
frame in which a decision must be made. He noted that State law allows a 90 day
extension, which the applicant has already granted, making the deadline January 23.
He felt that even if the Planning Commission were to approve the project, a Resolution
of approval would have to be prepared and brought back for adoption after the January
23 deadline However, State law also says that if there is a revised application a new
clock commences. He stated that the applicant submitted a revised plan on January 11
but requested that it not be considered a revised application. He noted that if the
applicant agrees to consider the new plan a revised application, a new 60 -day time
period would commence.
Chairman Lyon re -opened the public hearing.
John Koos disagreed with Mr. Rojas in that he felt the Planning Commission did have
the option to approve the project despite the recommendation of denial from staff He
also felt the Planning Commission could find the project categorically exempt from
CEQA requirements in that the applicant was proposing the mono -pine.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 9
Commissioner Long understood the discretion that the Planning Commission had but
asked Mr Koos if he wanted to force the Planning Commission to make a decision on
the project now even if they felt the staff report was correct and the necessary findings
could not be made, or did he want to start a new clock to give the applicant and staff
more time to gather and present information such that the Planning Commission could
make the findings necessary to approve the project.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the Planning Commission had concerns about the
project and would like to work with Verizon to resolve these concerns. He felt that
anything that could be done to improve service on the south side of the peninsula
deserves consideration, however the concerns of the neighbors were significant and
must be considered. He did not feel Mr. Koos had done an exhaustive search of
alternative locations at the site, much less other areas Therefore, if forced to vote
tonight, he would vote to deny the application However, he hoped the applicant would
consider the revised plan as a new application and continue to work with staff to find
alternative locations and solutions for the proposal.
Mr Koos felt it was a procedural matter and agreed to consider the revised plan
submitted on January 11 as a new application
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he would like the applicant to come back at the
next meeting and state that they had looked at the entire property and made every effort
to locate the antenna in the best possible location.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Chairman Lyon explained that the Commission now had more options available He felt
the Planning Commission wanted to accommodate the concerns of the citizens as well
as try to help Verizon provide the service they wanted to provide in a manner that is not
offensive to the residents. In looking at different locations, he felt it was important not to
trade one set of owners concerns with another set of owners concerns and asked
Verizon to be sensitive to that when looking at alternate sites
Commissioner Mueller asked if there were any locations on the property that did not
obstruct some type of view, or was the Planning Commission asking the applicant to
find a location that did not exist.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt there were locations on the property where a pole or
antenna could be placed that would not impair a view or impact the residents. He
stated that staff would work with the applicant in looking at alternate sites.
Chairman Lyon felt that the pole could go higher than 30 feet if going higher would allow
the pole to be placed in an area that would eliminate view and noise concerns from the
residents
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 10
Director/Secretary Rojas suggested the application be continued to a date certain He
noted that since the applicant requested at least 45 days to explore alternate locations
the item be brought back to the Planning commission at their March 26 meeting
Commissioner Long moved to continue the item to the Planning Commission
meeting of March 26, 2002, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (5-
0).
NEW BUSINESS
6. Neiahborhood Compatibility Update
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He stated that a draft
Neighborhood Compatibility Handbook had been prepared and the document was
before the Commission for review. He stated that staff recommends review of the
handbook for content and format and provide staff with further direction
Chairman Lyon felt the Commission should discuss the draft document, however
recommend not taking any definitive action on the publication until the Neighborhood
Compatibility Steering -Committee has had a chance to meet and make their decisions.
Commissioner Long felt that when discussing neighborhood compatibility, the term
"neighborhood" should be defined He felt that there was no clear definition of
neighborhood and it might be useful to have somewhere a set of criteria that deals with
the issue of defining what is the neighborhood
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that was an excellent suggestion, but felt that it should wait
until the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering -Committee has finished with its findings
He stated that the handbook attempts to illustrate the existing guidelines and code and
not propose any changes He explained that the Neighborhood Compatibility Steering -
Committee may propose changes to the guidelines and code He noted that the
definition of neighborhood could currently be found in the Height Variation Guidelines.
Commissioner Cartwright suggested the document explain why the guidelines were
needed and an overall picture of why the City uses these guidelines He explained that
when he read the document he found it difficult to visualize how a resident new to the
community put this document into perspective He also felt that the document was a
little hard to read and referred to the document from Pacific Grove which was easy to
read and offered different size prints, large pictures, and various graphics. He felt the
Pacific Grove document was very easy to read and these techniques should be
incorporated into the Rancho Palos Verdes document.
Commissioner Cartwright felt it would be helpful for the steering -committee to have a
copy of the draft document for informational purposes only
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 11
Chairman Lyon suggested tabling the item until the sub -committee had met. The
Commission agreed.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Commissioner Long asked that at the next meeting an item be added to the agenda to
discuss ways to summarize Planning Commission decisions by creating some type of
institutional memory file He felt this could consist of one -paragraph summaries of the
decisions that one made by the Commission immediately after the decision was made.
The Commission agreed to agendize the item for the next Planning Commission
meeting
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 1015 p m
Planning Commission Minutes
January 22, 2002
Page 12