PC MINS 20011127CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 27, 2001
CALL TO ORDER
APPROVED
DECEMBER 11, 2001
The meeting was called to order at 7 05 p m by Chairman Lyon at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Senior Planner Fox led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Cartwright, Long, Mueller, Paulson, Vice Chairman Clark,
Chairman Lyon
Absent: Commissioner Vannorsdall was absent (excused)
Also present were Director of Planning, Building and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Fox, Senior Planner Mihranian, City Attorney Lynch, and Recording Secretary
Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman Lyon suggested hearing items 4 and 3 before hearing items 1 and 2 The
Commission unanimously approved
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed one item of correspondence for Agenda item no 1
and two letters received at the c r v com address, which he stated that he had
responded to
Director/Secretary Rojas congratulated Vice Chairman Clark on his election to the City
Council and stated that he looked forward to working with him as a City Council
member
Chairman Lyon recognized and congratulated Vice Chairman Clark on his recent
election to the City Council
The Commissioners reported that they had visited the sites for the agenda items and
had met with the neighbors and/or applicants at the sites
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NEW BUSINESS
4. Neighborhood Compatibility Sub -Committee Report
Vice Chairman Clark gave a brief history and the reason for the formation of the
Neighborhood Compatibility Sub -Committee, which was to improve public awareness of
the City's neighborhood compatibility criteria. He explained that a draft public brochure
has been prepared, but was not yet suitable for presentation to the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner Paulson agreed that the brochure was not yet ready, but once completed
he felt it would be a very useful tool for the residents in the community for the
understanding of the process and requirements.
Vice Chairman Clark stated the two sub -committee members would not be able to
complete their task before leaving the Planning Commission, but would like to see the
Commission finish this brochure with staff.
Chairman Lyon suggested having staff complete the brochure and present it to the
Planning Commission when they are satisfied it is ready for review.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt staff had clear direction from the sub -committee and could
present something to the Planning Commission at the second meeting in January
The Commission agreed to allow staff to complete the brochure based on the sub-
committee's direction and present the Planning Commission with a final draft for further
review at the second meeting in January.
At this point Vice Chairman Clark read a memo dated November 27, 2001 on the
subject of the resignation from the Rancho Palos Verdes Planning Commission. The
memo stated that Vice Chairman Clark would, in light of his recent election to the
Rancho Palos Verdes City Council, resign from the Planning Commission effective
November 27, 2001 at 8:00 p.m. He stated he held his colleagues on the Planning
Commission in very high esteem and were outstanding representatives of the
community and thanked the Planning Department staff for their excellent work and
support.
The Commissioners thanked Vice Chairman Clark for his had work and professionalism
during his time on the Planning Commission and wished him well.
Vice Chairman Clark left the meeting at 7 30 p.m.
3. Grading Permit No. 2191: Larry Peha (applicant) and Mr. And Mrs. Heru
Wiredja (owner), 3815 Palos Verdes Drive South
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 2
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Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He stated that the item was
requested by the applicant to clarify the intent of condition 19 adopted by the
Commission at the October 9, 2001 meeting He explained that at the public hearing
the project architect expressed his disagreement with the proposed condition to
redesign a flat roof over the living room and entry foyer to a pitched roof, and had asked
that the condition be removed He stated the Commission had approved the project
with no specific direction to delete the condition He concluded by recommending the
Planning Commission affirm condition no 19 thereby requiring the applicant re -design
the proposed flat roof over the living room and foyer to a pitched roof
Commissioner Long asked if the Planning Commissioners recalled any further
discussion regarding the condition, beyond what was reflected in the minutes
Commissioner Paulson stated that he felt the minutes accurately reflected what was
discussed at the meeting, in that the issue was raised and the applicant stated his
objection to the condition, however no mention or direction was given by the Planning
Commission regarding the condition
Chairman Lyon read from the minutes the motion to adopt the Resolution and felt the
motion indicated the Planning Commission intended to modify the Resolution in
accordance with the suggested elevation change
Commissioner Cartwright stated that as the maker of the original motion, he did not
include or consider the roof in the motion He stated he did have a concern about the
roof and had questions he intended to ask.
Commissioner Paulson did not think the Planning Commission specifically addressed
the condition in question
Commissioner Long felt that normally if there was an applicant disagreeing with a
condition there would be something in the minutes reflecting what the Commission felt
about it.
Chairman Lyon agreed it was an oversight on the part of the Planning Commission not
to address that specific concern
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Larry Peha 67 14th Street Hermosa Beach stated he was the project architect. He
displayed a photo board and stated the center picture was a rendering of the proposed
house He pointed out the different elevations of the roof and foyer area of the
proposed residence He explained that the other pictures on the board were of homes
on Palos Verdes Drive South that have flat roofs
The Commission had a brief discussion on the purpose of this hearing and
Commissioner Long stated his interpretation was that if the Planning Commission
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 3
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concludes the condition was properly considered and included, then the Commission
should reaffirm their decision via minute order. However, if the Planning Commission
concludes that there was or may have been an error then a noticed hearing would be
required to actually address the merits of the applicant's request.
Chairman Lyon asked Mr. Peha if there was any compelling reason he could not comply
with the condition.
Mr Peha stated that the reason they asked for the condition to be deleted was because
there was a commanding ocean view from this portion of the house and he would like to
design some tall windows in that area. He explained that a sloped roof at that area
would cut down on the height of the windows allowed.
Chairman Lyon asked if there was a compromise that could be suggested
Mr. Peha stated he was concerned about putting something half way there which may
look worse
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Long moved to notice a new public hearing to re -hear item no. 19
only on the basis that the Planning Commission did not intentionally include the
condition in the Resolution, based on a review of the minutes, seconded by
Commissioner Mueller.
Chairman Lyon felt this was an oversight by the Planning Commission and asked the
staff if they knew of any hardship to the applicant if the item were to be renoticed and
heard at a subsequent meeting.
Director/Secretary Rojas was not aware of any hardship created other than time. He
stated that a condition should not be removed without noticing the interested parties.
Chairman Lyon re -opened the public hearing.
Mr. Peha stated that the Director had mentioned that if the revision was considered
minor then there would not be a need for a new public hearing He asked if this could
be considered a minor revision.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the Code stated that if the action resulting from
this interpretation hearing results in a minor modification, the revision could be done by
minute order. He noted that in the staff report, staff recommends that the removal of the
condition be considered a substantive revision, thus requiring the condition be brought
back at a duly noticed public hearing He stated that the Commission could determine
that this is a minor modification and remove the condition.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 4
Commissioner Lyon asked if there was any reasonable expectation that any member of
the public might object to leaving the roof as a flat roof.
Director/Secretary Rojas did not think there was previous public testimony directed at
that specific issue.
Chairman Lyon felt this was a relatively minor issue in context with the entire project
and felt it should be considered a minor modification.
Commissioner Paulson asked when this would most likely be heard before the Planning
Commission if a public hearing were required
Director/Secretary Rojas stated there was a required 15 -day notice period, and since
there is only one meeting in December, it would not be heard until January.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he had a concern about the condition and
questioned staff as to why they did not think a flat roof was appropriate.
Senior Planner Mihranian answered that there was a concern with the structure's visual
appearance from Palos Verdes Drive South because of the topography of the lot He
stated that any structure on the lot would be highly visible from Palos Verdes Drive
South and that this condition was recommended as a way to soften the structure's
appearance from Palos Verdes Drive South
Commissioner Mueller stated that he still had several questions for staff regarding the
issue but would rather wait and ask those questions at a publicly noticed hearing He
was concerned that there may be members of the public who were concerned about the
appearance or neighborhood compatibility of the house who may not be present at this
meeting
Commissioner Long repeated his motion. The motion passed (3-2) with
Commissioner Cartwright and Chairman Lyon dissenting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Tentative Tract Map No. 53305, et at: JCC Homes Inc. and California Water
Service Company, 5837 Crest Road
Senior Planner Fox presented the staff report. He explained that at the last hearing on
October 23 the developer presented a revised project proposal that included smaller
homes with lower ridgeline elevations and increased setbacks. Since the last meeting
staff has completed the view analysis of the revised silhouettes for the homes, the
developer has prepared a landscape plan for the tract, and staff has revised the initial
study of draft Mitigated Negative Declaration to reflect the revised project description
and the inclusion of the General Plan amendment as part of the proposal. He stated
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 5
that based upon the revised project, staff believes that none of the homes will create
significant view impairment. However, based upon comments by residents staff is
recommending the inclusion of a condition that will limit the height of homes He
discussed the landscape plan and suggested amending the conditions of approval
regarding the CC&R's to make specific reference to the homeowners association and
the water company respective maintenance responsibilities for landscaping on the site
Mr. Fox explained there was still the apparent inconsistency in the General Plan
between the land use designation and the RS -4 zoning designation that has been on
the site for many years. Therefore, staff is recommending that the approval of the
proposed project would be contingent upon the City Council's approval of a general plan
amendment that would designate the portion of the site proposed for residential
development as residential 2 — 4 dwelling units per acre. In conclusion, Mr Fox stated
that staff believes the revised project is consistent with the required findings of approval
for the Tentative Tract Map, Conditional Use Permit, and Grading Permit. He noted that
the Planning Commission's action on the application would be advisory only, with final
decision to be made by the City Council. As such, the matter is currently agendized for
the City Council meeting of December 4 Although staff has prepared draft resolutions
for the Commission's consideration, the Commission is not obligated to take action
simply because the matter has already been agendized to the City Council He stated
that staff could reagendize the matter for City Council consideration at a later meeting
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Kurt Nelson (representing JCC Homes) 3480 Torrance Blvd., Torrance. He briefly
recapped the changes made to the project since starting on September 25 He noted
the reduction in the home size, the homes on lots 4, 5, and 6 have been redesigned to
become single story residences, increased the side yard setbacks on the easterly
boundary to approximately 26 to 28 feet, and lowered the proposed residence on lot 9
by 8 feet to be 16 feet above grade. He felt that he could lower the pad of the lot by
another foot, as requested by staff. Mr. Nelson used a display board to show the layout
of the proposed project and how it impacts the surrounding neighborhoods He stated
that he had spoken with a representative from California Water Service Company who
had indicated they would have no objection to a condition that would require them or
them working with the new HOA so that the existing foliage is maintained He gave a
brief overview of the proposed landscape plan and how this landscape would address
the view concerns. Mr. Nelson stated that he has provided the revision to the site plan
and landscape plan to staff for any residents to review, has met with a number of the
homeowners, and has attempted to meet with others
Craig Webber 950 Santiago Rd , Long Beach stated he was the landscape architect for
the project. He distributed a board which he felt better displayed the proposed
landscape plan.
Harold Turley 5814 Scotwood Drive stated his objection to the project has been the size
and location of the proposed structures. His preference would be for the project to go
away, however short of that he stated he would find himself agreeable to the project as
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
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it has been modified if two specific issues can be handled to his satisfaction. The first
issue was his channel and island view, which is about 30 degrees. He asked that the
entire view lane be flagged at the proposed height of 16 feet prior to the approval of the
project. He would like to be able to completely see the impact as opposed to trying to
guess at it. The second request he made was for a provision for future events that
would affect his views, such as trees and shrubs, that may grow to exceed 16 feet. He
felt it was important that this be done in such a fashion so that the enforcement not fall
to him as the homeowner He did not want to be burdened with the process of filing
papers with the City or having to sue his neighbors
Chairman Lyon stated there was flagging existing for lots 4, 5, and 6 He asked Mr.
Turley what area he was asking be flagged. He stated that the area flagged represents
the highest view obstruction and there was no higher ridgeline that was not already
flagged.
Mr. Turley did not realize that the existing flagging represented the highest ridgelines.
Leo Lawson 5827 Sunmist Drive stated that the approximate 500 homes in the
surrounding area of the project have to use the intermediate school grounds as a park.
His concern is now that the school is in use, there is not any green space for use as a
park. He proposed the 4.99 acres become a park to service the Rancho Palos Verdes
residents of the area. He suggested the California Water Service Company could sell
the land at a discount to the City so that the City could then build a park He distributed
photographs taken from his home which showed the ridgelines of the proposed
residences. He noted that the land behind his home where these residences were to be
built slopes up 35 feet. He stated that adding another 16 feet on the slope will then
have him looking at 50 feet of mortar and dirt. He stated the proposed homes look
down into his daughter's bedroom window and plate glass window in the master
bathroom He felt the loss of privacy would result in a loss of property value to his
home. He felt the California Water Service Company has violated the public trust that
has been held with this community by the inception of the sub -division. He felt the
integrity of the reservoir could be compromised by grading and the additional weight of
the proposed homes. He did not think the developer had done any geologic studies to
ensure the integrity of the reservoir and requested the Commission require the
developer do such soil studies to ensure the south wall of the reservoir not be
compromised. He felt the 4.99 acres needs to be under the control of the City so that it
will be protected against any terrorist attempt to poison the water or affect the integrity
of the reservoir He requested the Planning Commission do a feasibility study
researching the possibility of the Water Company selling the 4.99 acres at a discount for
the development of a park
Commissioner Long began by stating that the Planning Commission has no authority to
purchase anything. He asked Mr. Lawson if any of the trees in the photograph
distributed were on his property.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
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Mr. Lawson answered that all of the trees were on the California Water Service
Company property.
Commissioner Long asked Mr Lawson what he would do if tomorrow the Water Service
Company decided they didn't want the trees and cut them all down
Mr Lawson answered that he would enjoy a view and would not have people peering
down into his daughter's bedroom. He added that he realized the Planning Commission
did not have the authority to purchase property, however they did have the ability to
present recommendations to the City Council
Chairman Lyon stated that he did not agree with much of what Mr Lawson said. He
stated the job of the Planning Commission was to address applications before them
from the property owner He stated that no Commissioner had a right to tell a property
owner what they wished they would do with the property. He felt the applicant was
trying to do everything he could to try to enhance Mr. Lawson's privacy. He stated that
the California Water Service site was at one time a ball field and the reason the ball field
was taken away was because of objections from the neighbors in Mesa Palos Verdes to
the noise the ball field created. Therefore, he did not agree that a park was a useful
addition to the neighborhood.
Commissioner Long added that the Planning Commission has never withheld a permit
application in order to compel the property owner to sell the land to the City at a
discount, and the suggestion to do so is a very dangerous suggestion.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if there has been geologic studies done on the
issue of the integrity of the water reservoir.
Senior Planner Fox stated that one of the required elements for a complete application
for a subdivision is that there has to be geology reports submitted and approved by the
City's geotechnical consultant. He stated that there were several reports submitted to
the City and approved and the city's consultant has visited the site and is aware of the
underground reservoir. He stated that there will be additional geologic reports
submitted before any grading or building can begin.
Carolynn Tuttle 29541 Oceanport Road distributed a photograph she had taken to the
Planning Commission and stated that her view would be significantly impacted. She
stated that the flags up now are only along the top of the front of the ridgeline and do
not clearly show how her view will be impacted She requested that the ridgeline be
continued so she could access her view impact. She agreed that lot 9 should be
lowered one more foot, but felt it could be lowered even further She asked about the
chimney in the plans and noted that it was now in the position to cause the greatest
impact on her view of Catalina She requested that in addition to flagging the entire
ridgeline, the developer also flag where the chimney will be located. She stated she
was still very alarmed that the City would considered placing expensive homes on the
top of a large water reservoir.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
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Ray Mathys 5738 Whitecliff Drive stated that an approximate 20 -foot landscape buffer
was proposed by the applicants to provide a privacy screen between the homes in the
proposed development and the existing homes in Mesa Verde that back up to the
project He felt this proposal could work provided that the landscaping is properly and
continually maintained in accordance with the approved landscape plan. He stated that
in order to do so, the HOA must have the authority to enter onto the land. He stated
that the most effective way to do this was to include the 20 -foot strip of land located
along the east and south side of the tract as part of the common area and owned by the
homeowners association. He acknowledged that the problem with this approach was
that it would reduce the size of the lot adjoining the common area. Therefore, an
easement dedicated to the HOA delineating the bounds of the proposed landscape
buffer area that would provide the Association with the right to enter onto the area for
maintenance purposes would provide the same assurances that the work could and
would be performed. Such an easement would be shown on a recorded tract map and
made enforceable through the Conditional Use Permit and the Association recorded
legal document.
Linda Navarro 12 Seaview Drive, Rolling Hills Estates, stated she was the president of
Seaview Villas HOA and represented fib homeowners She explained that the only
concern of the HOA was lot 9, which is adjacent to their property. She stated that some
of the previous concerns have already been met, however they still requested that the
pad be lowered on lot 9 by 2 feet rather than 1 foot. She also requested moving the
home 15 feet from the property line rather than the current 10 feet, as it was a privacy
issue
James Demarais stated he was a land use attorney representing some of the
homeowners. He noted that there was no current legal action pending and that they
were simply trying to work out an amiable solution to the matter He stated that the
zoning was inconsistent with the General Plan. He read a portion of a California
Supreme Court case "Planning and zoning law does not contemplate the General Plan
to be amended to conform to zoning ordinances. The tail does not wag the dog. The
General Plan is a charter to which the ordinances must conform " He further quoted:
"The unrestricted amendments of the General Plan to conform to zoning changes
destroy the General Plan as a tool for the comprehensive development of the
community as a whole." He stated that in this case the General Plan designates the
area as Infrastructure Facility. He stated the zoning ordinances zones the area
residential. Therefore, he felt the zoning ordinance was invalid and the area was
therefore zoned Infrastructure Facility as defined by the General Plan. In addition, he
felt the environmental issues were unresolved. Primarily, he noted the reservoir has a
history of leakage and he did not think there has been any articulation of the specific
steps taken to maintain the integrity of the reservoir. He stated that the according to the
geology reports, there seems to be an unresolved issue as to what the conclusion is
regarding the integrity of the reservoir He felt that at this stage, no action should be
taken on this project and if any action should be taken it should be that the Planning
Commission recommend denial of the project. He added that he had concerns
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 9
regarding Brown Act issues. He noted that there was a City Council hearing set for this
project on December 7 and the Code provides for a 10 -day appeal period He felt due
process was being cut down
Commissioner Long asked Mr Demarais if the Planning Commission conditions the
approval of the project on the City Council adopting an amendment to the General Plan
if that would then address his concerns.
Mr. Demarais answered that the approach would address his concerns regarding the
zoning inconsistency
Commissioner Long asked if the specific environmental concern was the proximity of
the homes to the reservoir.
Mr. Demarais stated the homeowners particular concern was that at the current time the
reservoir was in a potentially dangerous condition and that this project poses a serous
threat to the health and safety of the community He stated he was asking for, at a
minimum, a continuance in order to investigate the environmental impact more
seriously.
Bob Shirley 29635 Stonecrest Road acknowledged that JCC Homes has made efforts
and progress in dealing with height, view, and buffering issues He did not feel the
density and setback issues had been dealt with. He asked the Planning Commission
recommend a minimum 1/3 acre or 14,000 square foot lots so that the houses will not
have the appearance of a Torrance Anastasi type of project. He proposed a
recommendation be made to enforce the RS -4 setback requirements so the houses will
not be right on top of one another. He stated that when the developer reduced the
house size to single story he effectively increased the foundation size because all of the
living space is now on a single story. He also felt that the developer's environmental
investigation was incomplete and inadequate at this time. He was very concerned with
the loss of his privacy and property value. He further felt that the construction noise and
dirt would be intolerable to the surrounding neighborhoods.
Charles Joo 5840 Scotwood Drive also acknowledged the willingness of JCC Homes to
work with the neighbors However, he felt more time was needed for the neighbors and
JCC homes to work out some of the outstanding issues and asked that the Planning
Commission continue the item to a later date
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Joo what specific issues he felt needed to be
addressed.
Mr. Joo answered that privacy issues, decrease in property values, and inconsistent
zoning.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr Joo to point out where his home was located
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 10
Mr Joo stated that his home was right next to lot 9.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr Joo what his specific issues were
Mr Joo responded that he had privacy issues concerning the project. He stated that
from his second story window he currently overlooked a vacant lot with little traffic
Commissioner Long felt that Mr. Joo looked out over a tarred over area with carports
and pipes and a lot of trucks entering and leaving the property. He wondered if having
a home next to him would be more objectionable and cause more traffic
Mr Joo stated he did not mind the trucks coming in for the purpose of parking and that
was limited to certain hours.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Joo what he would like to see done that would
ensure his privacy.
Mr. Joo stated that he was not arguing the right of the developer to build on their
property He was simply stating that he was used to having a vacant lot next to him.
He stated he has a swimming pool that is right next to the proposed private driveway,
which concerned him.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that there was nothing the Commission could do other
than eliminate the private road that would satisfy Mr. Joo's concerns.
Mr. Joo stated that eliminating the road would satisfy his concerns but he did not know if
that would satisfy his neighbor's concerns
Lois Larue 3136 Barkentine Road stated she opposed the development of 14 lots on
4.99 acres. She did not think there was adequate room to build 10 lots on the site. She
asked the Planning Commissioners to be visionaries and not approve the project
Greg Johnson 29643 Stonecrest Road indicated on the map where his property was
located and felt that there was not enough room between his house and the proposed
houses that back up to Stonecrest He was concerned with privacy, screening, and
property values
Commissioner Paulson asked Mr. Johnson what the separation was between his home
and his neighbor to the side.
Mr Johnson estimated approximately 30 feet. He noted that he does not enjoy his yard
from the side yard but rather the backyard, which he considered his living space
RECESS AND RECONVENE
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
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At 9.50 p m. the Planning Commission took a short recess to 10:00 p.m. at which time
they reconvened
CONTINUED BUSINESS (CONT)
Kurt Nelson (in rebuttal) discussed the chimney in relationship to Mrs. Tuttle's home.
He stated he was willing to lower the grade of the pad an additional foot and the
chimney could be lowered or placed in a location as long as it complied with the building
code. He stated he would work with Mrs Tuttle regarding the chimney Regarding the
issue of the reservoir, he stated he would like to have Mr. Jensen from California Water
Service address those issue. He felt there had been a thorough review of the reservoir
and added that he would not begin the project until all additional soils testing is done in
association with the grading and foundations of the residences
Commissioner Paulson asked if there was any cut involved on the slopes on the back
property lines of lots 4, 5, and 6
Mr. Nelson responded that to his knowledge there would be no cut at that area. Mr.
Nelson stated he would address the privacy issues with Mr. Lawson but felt his
landscape plan would provide a permanent screening Regarding the zoning issue, Mr.
Nelson felt that Commissioner Long's suggestion to condition the approval contingent
upon the City Council's determination of a General Plan amendment was a good
suggestion. He thanked Mr Mathys for his suggestions and felt a dedication easement
with enforcement rights was something that could and most likely would happen. He
stated that he would be willing to lower the pad of lot 9 one more foot, but only if it was
considered necessary. Mr Nelson stated that the only setback exception he was
requesting was between two of his own houses He noted that in every other area he
met or exceeded percentages of coverage and setbacks He stated that if Mr. Johnson
has room on his property, he would be more than willing to plant a big box tree so that
he can be comfortable. Mr. Nelson concluded by asking the Planning Commission
make a decision on his project, one way or another, at this meeting.
Don Jensen stated he was the District Manager for the California Water Service
Company stated that there are currently 2 reservoirs underground at the site. He stated
that the walls of the reservoirs were built up to 24 inches in thickness and the life
expectancy of these types of structures are measured in half centuries. He also noted
that the reservoir was never filled above 95 percent or let below 45 percent. He stated
that as a professional he had no problem with the structural integrity of the reservoirs
Commissioner Cartwright asked when the reservoir was built.
Mr. Jensen responded that the reservoir was built in 1965
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 12
Commission Cartwright asked if there had ever been a situation at the site where the
integrity of the reservoir had been compromised.
Mr. Jensen answered that there had not been any problems to his knowledge. He
added that there was a maintenance program in place and the reservoir was inspected
annually.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if there were other reservoirs of this type on the
peninsula.
Mr. Jensen answered that there was one near the FAA radar site.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Paulson asked if reducing the pad of lot 9 an additional foot and
changing the location of the chimney would address the concerns of the affected
residents.
Senior Planner Fox did not think the chimney had any affect on the homes in Rolling
Hills Estates. He stated that staff had visited the site and did not think there was much
potential for privacy infringement, however lowering the lot one foot couldn't hurt. He
did not think that lowering the lot 2 feet would allow much more gain for those residents.
With respect to the other side, he stated that the structure currently proposed was 16
feet in height, but in the interest of minimizing any potential view impairment it seems
reducing the pad lot one foot would be enough to pull the ridgeline down to the point
where it was essentially at the water line of Catalina Island and there would be no view
impairment on Catalina. He stated that 2 feet would be better, but one foot would allow
a clear view of the island. Regarding the chimney, he stated that it appeared rather
large on the plans and by doing a quick scaling of the plans he felt the chimney may be
lowered by as much as four feet and still comply with the building code requirements.
Commissioner Paulson asked about the idea of a common area and the homeowner's
association control over landscape maintenance and if this had been done in any other
developments in the City.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that he believed it had been done for the Island
View tract and it has been successful
Commissioner Paulson asked if all of the proposed homes were within their required lot
coverage.
Senior Planner Fox answered that all of the lots were with the required lot coverage,
which is 50 percent.
Chairman Lyon felt that staff recommendations for the proposed project made a lot of
sense. He felt the applicant has worked very hard to accommodate the requests of the
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November 27, 2001
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neighbors. He felt there had been a number of requests, some of which were very
reasonable and some of which are not reasonable. He stated the developer had done a
good fob in trying to do what he could to make this development compatible with the
area He stated that everyone gets used to living in an area that has certain features,
but people have a right to develop their property He understood that it is very
disappointing to lose a view, however the City has a code that is very specific on what is
a protected view and the Planning Commission is obligated to follow that code. He felt
there were no violations to that code in this proposed development and everything
seemed to be reasonable and within the code
Commissioner Long also supported the staffs recommendation He felt that all
requirements needed for the Planning Commission to issue a permit have been met.
He stated that if there was an issue where someone felt the density of the development
was inappropriate, the Planning Commission does not have the authority to change the
zoning and change the density of the development. In particular, he stated that the
Commission cannot improperly and unreasonably withhold approval from the property
owner for the purpose of essentially extorting the property owner into selling the
property to the City at a discount. He felt that this particular developer has been one of
the most cooperative before the Commission He acknowledged that the developer
could not meet all of everyone's concerns, however he has met all of the concerns that
this Commission has the power to make him meet.
Commissioner Cartwright commended the applicant for working with the neighbors and
the Commission and agreed with the comments of Chairman Lyon and Commissioner
Long. He stated that revised plans show the house sizes have been significantly
reduced, all of the two-story homes have been changed to single -story homes, the
setbacks have been significantly increased, and the landscape plans call for retention of
mature foliage where possible and to add additional plantings to ensure privacy That,
along with the staff recommendation to limit the height of the chimney, to require foliage
be maintained at a maximum of 8 feet, and to regulate the HOA to maintain foliage
convinced Mr. Cartwright that the development meets the findings for a tract map, a
Conditional Use Permit, and a Grading Permit. He wanted to make sure, however, that
the Planning Commission conditions the approval so that the pad on lot 9 is lowered an
additional foot and the planting along the south side is sufficient to screen the homes
and the foliage is maintained at the specified height
Commissioner Mueller stated he was initially concerned with the lot density issue, but
realized there was nothing the Planning Commission could do based on the fact that it
met the RS -4 criteria He too felt the developer made a concerted effort to address that
issue in a different way, perhaps, than what the neighbors might think is the best way.
However, he felt the proposed plan best serves the immediate neighborhood He felt
some of the setbacks might be a little small, but again they were within the standards of
the development code. He was pleased that the developer was willing to lower the pad
by one foot on lot 9, which would help alleviate some of the concerns of the immediate
neighbors
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November 27, 2001
Page 14
Commissioner Paulson complimented the developer on being responsive once the
issues had been brought to his attention. However, he felt if the developer had talked
with the property owners before he filed the application there may not have been the
need for three hearings. He stated his concerns were addressed as long as the right
conditions were included that guarantee the issue of protection of privacy at the time of
installation of trees at both the south and east side of the project
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-44
recommending adoption of a Mitigated Negative Declaration and adopt P.C.
Resolution NO. 2001-45 thereby approving the staff recommendations with the
following conditions: Lower the pad on lot 9 by one foot, ensure the trees that
are planted on the south and east side of the project are sufficient to provide
adequate privacy at the time of installation, and an easement on the property that
will be conditioned to ensure that the homeowners association has access to
maintain the landscaping.
Commissioner Long referred to page 15, condition no. 25, and felt that a reference
should be added that the landscaping plans will also take into account view concerns by
selecting from the trees or plantings recommended by the city as appropriate and as
reviewed and approved by the Director He also felt that compliance with the CC&R's
should be incorporated into the conditions of approval
Commissioner Cartwright agreed to the revisions to the motion.
Commissioner Long seconded the motion. The motion passed, (5-0).
2. Coastal Permit No. 1701172 and Grading Permit No. 2260/2281: Eric
Johnson (owner) 2 Yacht Harbor Drive
Senior Planner Fox presented the staff report He described the revised project, noting
that the size of the project was now smaller, the maximum ridgeline of the house has
been lowered two feet, and the entire house has been slightly realigned on the site. He
noted that a portion of the detached garage would encroach into the required 20 -foot
front setback from the realigned roadway. Therefore, staff recommended the
Commission require the garage be modified to meet the 20 -foot setback imposed He
stated that the total grading quantity has decreased overall, however the amount of
export has remained about the same. Mr. Fox stated that staff has reassessed the
previous analysis of view impacts of the project based upon the silhouette and with
respect to public views from Palos Verdes Drive South the revised residence would
encroach a maximum of approximately 3 feet into the 2 -degree down arc zone
discussed in the City's Coastal Specific Plan However, the revised structure is also
below the 16 -foot height lima. He explained that the City has generally permitted
structures that are not within a specific view corridor and comply with the 16 -foot height
limit to encroach into the 2 degree down arc zone. He stated that staff believes the
public views for motorists, bicyclists, and pedestrians will not be significantly impaired
by the revised project Mr Fox stated that the proposed project was now at 10 -feet
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 15
above finished grade, which is 6 feet lower than the 16 foot height limit He stated that
the structure would block some portions of the private ocean views from homes in the
Seaview community; staff did not feel it was tall enough to encroach into the view of
Catalina Island Therefore staff believes that the revised project and related structures
will not adversely affect the use of neighboring properties any more significantly than a
16 -foot tall structure would. Addressing the issue as to whether or not the project would
require a height variation, Mr Fox explained that in every case both with and without the
road realignment and measured from existing or proposed finished grade the revised
project does not exceed the 16 -foot height limit on either an upslope or downslope lot.
Therefore, it was staff's position that a height variation was not required for the project
He explained that staff expanded the comparison of the development intensity and
neighborhood compatibility of the project to include only the truly useable area of the flat
upper portion of the site. Considering the significantly larger lot size, the scale of the
proposed house in proportion to the lot is still about the same as those in the
surrounding neighborhoods. In addition, the revised house is still set well apart from the
surrounding neighborhood so bulk and mass does not seem in direct context with
surrounding homes. Therefore, staff believes the revised project is compatible with the
scale and character of surrounding neighborhoods. He stated that staff believes all
required findings can be made for the Coastal Permit and Grading Permit and therefore
recommends approval of the project
Commissioner Cartwright asked if neighborhood compatibility was a required finding for
this project
Senior Planner Fox stated that it was a finding required for the Grading Permit.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Eric Johnson (applicant) 92 Yacht Harbor Drive explained that after listening to the
concerns of the neighbors and the Planning Commission it was clear that the major
issues were the overall mass of the house and height of the structure. He felt that the
revised project addressed these concerns He was not sure what else they could do
with this proposal. He stated he was willing to move the garage out of the setback area
Mr. Johnson stated he and his architect have worked very hard to minimize impacts,
accommodate concerns, and to provide a proposal which was completely conforming to
the rules of the City.
Ted McCowan 4212 Admirable Drive stated that he was never too concerned about
how the project would impact him until the silhouette was erected at the site. He
explained that he has a view of Catalina Island as well as a view of the entire
Portuguese Bend Cove. He stated that the flags indicate that the guesthouse will
completely block his view of the cove He felt the guesthouse could be moved slightly
or lowered, as it appears to be a two-story structure
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr McCowan if the Transamerica project would have
blocked any portion of his view
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November 27, 2001
Page 16
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Mr. McCowan responded that he never determined if the project would block his view or
not.
Debbie Huff 4245 Palos Verdes Drive South stated that the guesthouse, which is the
closest to Palos Verdes Drive South She did not understand the rational as to why the
maximum height of the structure could change when the location of the structure
changed She discussed landscaping and felt that there were currently many trees and
shrubs on the property over 16 -feet in height She also stated that as she walks along
Palos Verdes Drive South the entire amount of the water between the cliffs and Catalina
Island would no longer be visible to the public She noted that once the Ocean Trails
houses are built that ocean area would also be blocked To alleviate some of the
concerns of the neighborhood she suggested changing the zoning to RSA -5, which is
one house per five acres, which seems to be more appropriate for this site She also
suggested that there were extremely attractive tax benefits available that are offered to
those putting land aside in perpetuity as open space.
Diane Weinberger 4206 Exultant Drive stated she was president of the Seaview
Residents Association. She stated that she was representing residents who had major
concerns over vegetation She felt there was a lot of vegetation on the lot that should
have been trimmed over the years that is causing view impacts She requested that if
the project is approved the vegetation is held to very strict minimums to be as low as
possible
Eloise Radford 135 Seawall Road stated she was in favor of the project. She stated
that if she were in the position of having that piece of property and the means to
develop it, she would hope that she would do as the Johnsons have done and work
closely with the neighbors and build something very desirable in the neighborhood. She
felt the Johnsons have given quite a bit and it was now time for the neighborhood to
allow the Johnsons to start their project. She stated that there would never be 100
percent fulfillment on everyone's part She felt the neighbors had to always realize that
something would eventually be built on this vacant lot.
Cathy French 4235 Palos Verdes Dave South stated that the guesthouse obscures a
major portion of the cove view from her residence. She stated that since it was a
guesthouse, she wondered why it couldn't be lowered She also felt that lowering the
height of the guesthouse would substantially improve the view from Palos Verdes Drive
South for the general public She also discussed the vegetation and she too asked
there be some condition of approval to keep the vegetation on the property as low as
possible She asked that there be some type of direct oversight during the building
process to verify the grading height and pads before the structure is built. Finally, Ms
French stated that she was trusting the Johnsons integrity and character that what was
being built on that property today was all that was being built there. She stated that she
was loosing a substantial part of her view and did not want to loose more of it through a
false sense of security that more could be built.
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November 27, 2001
Page 17
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Cory Johnson 92 Yacht Harbor Drive stated he was in favor of the project. He stated
that his family has reduced the size of the house by quite a bit, and his bedroom has
already been cut in half He stated he would like to live in his new house before he
leaves for college
Jill Carlton 4265 Palos Verdes Drive South stated she was grateful for the work the
Johnsons have done to try to minimize the view impacts from the surrounding
neighborhood She stated that she had concerns regarding the vegetation on the
property She stated that she would prefer to have the view through of a chain link
fence without the pilasters that have been recommended by staff
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff what the maximum height of shrubbery was as
defined by the code
Senior Planner Fox stated that any foliage was allowed to grow to a height of 16 feet.
He pointed out that in condition no 20, with respect to the fencing along Palos Verdes
Drive South, it specifically says that hedges and solid walls are not permitted Condition
No 21 also limits the height of the trees and foliage to no more than 16 feet or the
highest point of the structure, whichever is lower
Commissioner Cartwright stated there were many ridgelines on this property and asked
which one prevailed
Senior Planner Fox answered that it would be the highest ridgeline, which is 228, the
ridgeline of the main house
Steve Carlton 4265 Palos Verdes Drive South stated that the new proposal has the
main house moved back to attach with what is now the study, and wondered if had the
main house had stayed closer to the original area and the new study moved slightly, if
the new ridgeline would have dropped from 228 to possible 226 or 225 He stated that
the importance of the height of the ridgeline was that the foliage was allowed to grow to
16 feet or the ridgeline of 228 He stated that it would only take a 3 to 5 foot bush on
the west side of the property near Palos Verdes Drive South to totally obliterate the
lighthouse, Long Point, and Abalone Cove He noted that was why it was important to
have specific conditions included regarding landscaping and foliage
Lenee Bilski 4255 Palos Verdes Drive South asked the Commission not to decide this
matter this evening, but to continue the public hearing She stated that from her home
she could look out across the site to the scrub along the very edge of the cliff She
stated it was very difficult to see the actual topographical map and the feet above mean
high tide She asked for a map of the natural grade so that she could more easily
determine what the grade actually was, when the survey was done, what scale was
used and what the reference points were for the natural grade She was very
concerned about the public view impairments and noted that the General Plan divides
visual aspects into views and vistas She stated that the staff made their
recommendation based on vista corridors, but she explained that views could be
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 18
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continuous as viewed from along a public corridor. She stated that views have a broad
focal point which has unlimited arc and depth She discussed the Coastal Specific Plan
and its discussion of view corridors. She felt that there was a public viewing point from
all along Palos Verdes Drive South that should be protected.
Commissioner Paulson asked Ms. Bilski how she would like to see the property
developed.
Ms. Bilski responded that there was enough property to develop it so that it wouldn't
block the public views as much as the flagging makes it visually apparent that it does.
She felt the house could be adjusted and moved back toward Palos Verdes Drive South
and possible tilted in a different direction.
Chairman Lyon stated that staff recommends compliance with the 20 -foot setback from
the street, which would require Mr. Johnson to move the subterranean garage slightly.
He asked Mr. Johnson if that would be a problem.
Mr. Johnson stated that was not something he had studied, but felt it could be
accomplished.
Chairman Lyon felt the garage was entirely underground and therefore was a
subterranean garage in a setback area, and therefore did not require a Variance
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that according to the Development Code, structures that
are completely subterranean do not have to meet the setbacks In looking at the garage
objectively, staff could not make the determination that the garage was completely
subterranean. The Planning Commission could, however disagree and take the
position that the garage is substantially subterranean and does not have to meet the
setbacks.
Chairman Lyon did not think there was any impact on anything exterior, whether in the
setback area or not, and could not see any practical objection to encroaching into the
setback area.
Commissioner Long asked Mr. Johnson if he would be agreeable to some sort of
condition designed to protect the neighbors concerns regarding views such as a
condition that all foliage be maintained at an elevation of 226 or below.
Mr Johnson answered that he would be more than happy to agree not to plant anything
along Palos Verdes Drive South. He stated that he had not yet worked out a landscape
plan and expressed concern that he not be treated any differently than any other
applicant in the City and their rights to landscape. He explained that his intent in
landscaping was to actually open up area and have some areas with trees. He stated
that he would like to have a few trees on the property.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 19
Commissioner Mueller asked about the function of the fence along Palos Verdes Drive
South and if Mr. Johnson was required to maintain that fence.
Mr. Johnson answered that the fence serves as security for the gated community at the
Portuguese Bend Club He stated he was obligated to maintain the fence.
Commissioner Mueller asked if was possible to maintain the security for the Portuguese
Bend Club at a lower elevation, further down on the property.
Mr. Johnson felt it might be possible to drop the fence down lower on the site. He
stated he would do everything possible to make the fence as low as possible and still
maintain the integrity of the private community He stated he would be very hesitant to
agree to something specific without having consulted his Portuguese Bend Club
neighbors
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Paulson asked about the 16 -foot high guesthouse and why that was
allowed
Senior Planner Fox answered that the Code allows for a guesthouse to be 16 -feet in
height He stated that there had not been a significant change in the actual
configuration of the structure itself, rather the use of the structure had changed. He
stated that the actual structure had only increased in height by six inches.
Commissioner Paulson was concerned about how to construct a condition regarding the
height of vegetation that was responsive to the concerns of the neighbors yet was not
unduly restrictive for the property owner.
Commissioner Long suggested a condition that stated that no new foliage should grow
in excess of 16 feet
Commissioner Paulson asked if there was any way to reorient the placement of the
guesthouse that would reduce the massing and reduce the view impairments from the
neighboring properties
Chairman Lyon re -opened the public hearing.
Mr Johnson felt that reorientation for the guesthouse was possible, but was concerned
that reorienting the guesthouse may transfer any view impairment from one property to
another.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 20
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Chairman Lyon felt the current proposal presented a reasonable balance between
preserving the views of the neighbors and retaining a view and the aesthetics of the
project.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed that the last to build has the same rights as the first to
build He stated that there was no way to build on this property without affecting
somebody's views and this was not a view corridor He felt that what was being
proposed was far superior to what was previously approved for Transamerica
Chairman Lyon asked if the project as currently proposed violated any of the
development code requirements
Senior Planner Fox stated that the currently proposed project met all required standards
of the Development Code
Commissioner Long was convinced that the view impairment would not be significant,
given the overall development, provided that certain conditions were imposed
However, he was concerned with the required finding that for new single-family
residences the grading and/or related construction is compatible with immediate
neighborhood characteristics He then discussed how neighborhood characteristics
were defined in the Development Code Section 17 02 04a6 He felt that the
characteristics regarding front yard setbacks were satisfied and did not believe the
requirement for compatible architectural styles and materials was satisfied and he was
not convinced that the house was compatible in regards to scale He asked if staff had
ever looked at homes on both sides of a major arterial when considering neighborhood
compatibility
Commissioner Cartwright stated he was not having a problem with the neighborhood
compatibility issue He felt there was some practical limit to what was compatible He
felt that if the nearest residence was 1,000 feet away that it may not necessarily be
considered to be in the immediate neighborhood when considering neighborhood
compatibility Further, he did not feel there was any consistency in the residences in
Portuguese Bend
Director/Secretary Rojas recalled a similar property on Palos Verdes Drive West
adjacent to the Lunada Point development where there was a very large home
proposed He explained that since there were no large homes adjacent to it staff did
compare it with homes across Palos Verdes Drive West.
Commissioner Paulson stated that he found it hard to believe that the residents on
Palos Verdes Drive South would rather see a subdivision developed on the lot with the
approximate same size structures developed on the lot. He stated that he would hate to
say that the Planning Commission was not going to approve the project because of
neighborhood compatibility with some scenario that was illogical
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 21
Commissioner Long felt that Commissioners Paulson and Cartwright were basically
saying that this proposal was in a neighborhood of one and he was not necessarily
disagreeing with that statement.
Chairman Lyon moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-46 thereby approving
Coastal Permit No. 1701172 and Grading Permit No. 226012281 as presented by
staff with the following modifications: 1) Add to Condition No. 20 the requirement
that new vegetation shall not significantly impair views from surrounding
properties; and, 2) Amend the condition to say that the above ground portion of
the garage shall comply with the 20 -foot front yard setback.
Commissioner Mueller noted that one of the findings for the Coastal Permit was that
new development should be required to provide public access from Palos Verdes Drive
South to the shoreline He asked why this new development was not required to
provide public access to the beach.
Senior Planner Fox explained that there is an exception to the public access
requirement when public access is provided nearby. He stated that there was public
access to the ocean from Ocean Trails and there was public access available to all City
property to the west at Sacred Cove and Abalone Cove Beach Park.
Commissioner Paulson discussed the fencing along Palos Verdes Drive South and the
proposed pilasters and if the fence should remain as conditioned in the staff report.
Commissioner Mueller felt that pilasters should be prohibited along the fence
Chairman Lyon agreed to the amendment that no pilasters will allowed in the fence
along Palos Verdes Drive West.
Commissioner Cartwright seconded he motion. The motion passed (5-0).
Commissioner Long explained that his vote in no way set any sort of precedent, as he
concluded that this house was in a neighborhood of one.
` i" • Iltt
The meeting was adjourned at 12:40 a.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 27, 2001
Page 22