PC MINS 20011009CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
OCTOBER 9, 2001
• Approved
November 1 , 2001
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lyon at 7:06 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Mueller led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present Commissioners Cartwright, Long, Mueller, Paulson, Vannorsdall, Vice
Chairman Clark and Chairman Lyon
Absent None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Fox, Senior Planner Mihranian, Associate Planner Schonborn, Assistant
Planner Yu, Assistant City Attorney Pittman, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
After a brief discussion the agenda was approved as presented However, the
Commission reserved the right to switch the order of items 7 and 8, if needed, later in
the meeting.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas reported that the City Council had approved the General Plan
Implementation Report that had been forwarded to them by the Planning Commission.
He also reported that the City Council would begin their hearings for the Long Point
project on November 7 at Miraleste Middle School. Finally, regarding neighborhood
compatibility, he stated that the City Council had directed staff to research the possibility
of a code amendment.
Director/Secretary Rojas distributed one item of correspondence relating to Agenda
Item No 5, one item of correspondence for Agenda Item No 6 and 15 items of
correspondence for Agenda Item No. 7.
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CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of September 25, 2001
•
Commissioner Long asked that the reason for his recusal as noted on page 2 of the
minutes be clarified
Commissioner Cartwright noted typos on page 4 of the minutes
Vice Chairman Clark noted on page 18 of the minutes that there may be a comment
made by Mr. Tippets that was not included in the minutes. He asked that the tape be
checked and the comment added. He also noted a typo on page 15 of the minutes.
Chairman Lyon noted two words left out of the motion on page 24 of the minutes
Vice Chairman Clark asked the first paragraph on page 23 be modified to add "as
envisioned by the Vice Chairman in his previous motion".
The minutes were approved as amended, without objection, (7-0).
2. Conditional Use Permit No. 136, Grading Permit No. 1246, and Lot Line
Adjustment No. 38: York Long Point Associates, 6610 Palos Verdes Drive
South
Commissioner Long began by asking staff what the authority was in the Municipal Code
that would allow the Planning Commission to grant an extension for entitlements that
have already expired.
Assistant City Attorney Pittman responded that the request for the extension was filed
prior to the date of expiration. However, because of the scheduling of the agendas the
item was not placed on the agenda before it expired. He stated that as long as the
application was received prior to the expiration of the permits then the Planning
Commission had the authority to consider the extension request.
Commissioner Mueller asked how many times these permits have been extended.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that these permits have been extended nine times
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Ann Shaw 30036 Via Borica stated that Destination Resorts does not want the Long
Point entitlements, but rather their own plans for the site. She felt the Planning
Commission should be accommodating and the Long Point entitlements should not be
extended.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
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Vice Chairman Clark questioned why the landowner would want the extension,
particularly in light of a very thorough presentation by Mike Mohler (representing the
developer) as to why the current entitlements would not be feasible for the proposed
project
Commissioner Cartwright felt the landowner would be foolish not to request an
extension, as the City has not finalized the current request, and may not for some time.
He stated that all the request does is keep in place what has already been approved
Director/Secretary Rojas responded to Commissioner Long's question regarding the
authority in the Municipal Code to grant the extension He stated that the Conditions of
Approval of the Conditional Use Permit established the regulations for the permit
expiration He noted that the Conditions stated that extensions of up to one year may
be granted by the Planning Commission if requested prior to expiration.
Commissioner Long was satisfied that there were no limitations on the number of
extensions allowed
Commissioner Long stated that he had hoped the landowner would be present to
explain to the Planning Commission the viability of a project that is limited to the Long
Point property. He felt that implicit in the application of extension was an
acknowledgement that such a project is viable, and he was inclined to agree He felt
that by granting this request the Planning Commission might be saying that they agree
that a project restricted to the Long Point property, and not making use of City property,
is a viable project, as the owner seems to acknowledge in applying for an extension.
Commissioner Cartwright did not agree with that interpretation
Chairman Lyon moved to approve the requested one-year extension, thereby
setting the expiration date as September 11, 2002, with all conditions of approval
remaining in full force and effect, seconded by Commissioner Paulson.
Approved, 7-0.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Height Variation No. 936: Mr. and Mrs. Samer Mistry, 758 Birchman Dr.
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report. She explained the reason for the
height variation application and stated that staff had determined that no views would be
impacted by the addition, there was no privacy impaction, and it was compatible with
the immediate neighborhood.
Commissioner Paulson moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-33 thereby
approving Height Variation Permit No. 936 as presented by staff, seconded by
Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (7-0).
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4. Conditional Use Permit No. 229, Grading Permit No. 2283, and
Environmental Assessment No. 740: Verizon Wireless Services.
Commissioner Long stated that the next two items on the agenda were from Verizon
Wireless. He stated that his law firm has either in the past or is currently affiliated with
Verizon Wireless, and while he personally is not currently doing work for Verizon
Wireless he will, as he has done in the past, recuse himself from the next two items to
avoid any appearance of conflict of interest
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He explained that the request
was to replace the existing flagpole with a new similarly designed flagpole at the same
location He stated the height of the proposed flagpole was 10 feet higher than what
was now existing, thereby maintaining an overall height of 45 feet He stated that all
findings could be made for the three applications and there would be no significant
adverse affects on adjacent properties. He explained that staff found the proposal is
consistent with the Wireless Communications Antenna Development Guidelines, and
therefore staff recommends the Planning Commission certify the Mitigated Negative
Declaration and approve the Conditional Use Permit and Grading Permit, subject to
conditions.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Lorena Martinez representing Verizon Wireless stated she was available to answer any
questions
Commissioner Mueller asked if there were any alternatives looked at as far as the
location of the proposed pole.
Ms Martinez responded that other sites were considered, however the proposed
location offered optimum coverage.
Commissioner Mueller asked about the proposed height and if the pole actually had to
be that high.
Ms. Martinez answered that the radio frequency engineers had stated that 45 feet was
the height that offered coverage in the area
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Mueller clarified his concerns He stated in a community such as this
that is concerned with preserving views, large poles such as the one proposed should
be avoided and hoped that other options had been considered. He wondered if other
options might not have been considered because they were not as good at providing
reception as this option.
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October 9, 2001
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Chairman Lyon felt this was replacing an existing flag pole with a new flag pole that
happens to have some antenna panels mounted inside of it that are not visible.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-34 thereby
certifying the Mitigated Negative Declaration and adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-
35 thereby approving Conditional Use Permit No. 229 and Grading Permit No.
2283 as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved,
(5-1) with Commissioner Mueller dissenting and Commissioner Long recused.
5. Conditional Use Permit No. 226, Grading Permit No. 2296 and Environmental
Assessment No. 742: Verizon Wireless Service
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He explained the proposal.
He noted that staff had determined through the initial study process that there are
potentially significant impacts to the aesthetic environment that cannot be mitigated with
the project. He explained that this was due, in part, to the location at the top of the
slope, the close proximity to adjacent homes, and the open space nature of the
Forrestal property. Regarding the Conditional Use Permit, he explained that based
upon visual and aesthetic impacts, staff determined the site is not adequate in size and
configuration to accommodate the proposed use Staff believes that in approving the
subject use there will be significant adverse affects on adjacent properties with regards
to affecting a scenic vista from the Stalwart Trail along Forrestal Drive. He also
explained that staff believed the proposed use was contrary to the General Plan, the
facility will not blend with the surrounding environment, that the visual impacts will be
significant due to the fact that this is a new pole at a site that currently does not have
any poles Further, staff does not believe the project is consistent with the Wireless
Communications Antenna Development Guidelines, specifically it does not preserve
view corridors and there is an imbalance of public and private costs and benefits where
there will be a greater cost to the public and a greater benefit to the applicant.
Therefore, staff recommends denial of the project.
Vice Chairman Clark noted in the staff report that staff believes there may be other
alternative methods. He asked if staff discussed any alternative methods with the
applicant to accomplish their purpose.
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that there were discussions in regards to
alternative sites and types of uses, however this proposal was the most preferable to
the applicant.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
John Koos 357 Van Ness Way, Torrance (representing Verizon) gave a brief history of
the proposal. He felt this design blended nicely with the site, especially since the
antennas would be located inside the pole He stated that the engineers had felt that
the objectives of the antennas could be reached at a height of 30 feet, but not at a lower
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October 9, 2001
Pages
height. He explained that Verizon had looked into locating on existing telephone poles,
but determined that these poles were too low. He stated he was available for any
questions or suggestions
Commissioner Cartwright asked if any other locations in the area had been considered
or if Verizon had considered co -location in the area with other services.
Mr. Koos answered that other locations had been considered on the property, however
they were not as desirable. As far as co -location, he was not sure where the other
companies were located in the area.
Vice Chairman Clark was concerned that Mr. Koos did not know where the other
providers had their locations in the area, which implies that he had not analyzed
whether or not co -locations meet Verizon objectives.
Don Richardson 32206 Heim Place stated that he did not think the proposed pole
blended in with the area at all. He noted that the staff report clearly indicates there is an
aesthetic impact that cannot be mitigated, and he agreed. He stated that he lives in an
area that spent quite a bit of money to underground their utilities and did not think this
type of pole belonged in the area.
Commissioner Cartwright understood Mr Richardson's objection to a pole of this height
overlooking his backyard. He asked if he would object to a pine tree or something else
that would completely disguise the antenna.
Mr. Richardson answered that a "stealth" installation would be somewhat less
objectionable. However he felt that thirty feet high was very tall and he would have to
look at what was proposed
Charles Agnew 32261 Phantom Drive stated he looked down on the school site and
proposed antenna. He objected to the proposed antenna and noted that it was right on
a ridgeline. He stated that he may not be opposed to hiding the antenna if it were in the
right location, however the proposed power pole was not compatible with the
neighborhood. He stated that he understood what Verizon was aiming for and he
understood their need, but felt there had to be a better way to accomplish their goals
Diane Weinberger 4206 Exultant Drive stated she was the president of the Seaview
Residents Association. She began by stating she was not notified of the hearings for
this project and stated that it was her understanding that as president of an HOA she
should be notified of the project She stated she had a list of eight residents who were
opposed to the project. She requested the tower, as planned, be rejected by the
Planning Commission. She stated that the residents have worked very hard to beautify
their subdivision and this proposal was an eyesore
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
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Commissioner Paulson felt that, after hearing from the applicant and the residents,
there was a potential for a project that would meet everyone's needs. He stated he
would be hesitant to support any motion that would deny the project, but he also could
not support a motion to approve it. He felt the applicant, staff, and residents should get
together and discuss some of the alternatives based on design, location, and other
items of concern.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed and suggested the item be continued to a date after
the parties involved have had a chance to discuss the project.
Commissioner Vannorsdall felt the proposed location of the project was very important
and encouraged the applicant to find some way to better camouflage the tower.
Commissioner Mueller stated it was important to remember that the City was most likely
the beneficiary of this particular antenna location He felt that because the
neighborhood had spent their money to underground the utilities the City should make
every effort to find a better location for the project. He suggested going with staffs
alternative one or denying the application without prejudice to allow the applicant to
continue to work and come back with a modified plan.
Vice Chairman Clark agreed that the project needed to be re -worked and felt the
applicant should work with the staff and the neighbors to see what potential win-win
solution could be found. He felt that co -location opportunities with other wireless users
should be explored.
Chairman Lyon agreed with the Commission and felt there was a lot of room for
discussion and negotiation between the applicant, staff, and neighbors
Commissioner Paulson moved to continue the application to the November 13,
2001 meeting, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (6-0) with
Commissioner Long recused.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8:40 p m the Commission took a short recess to 8.55 p m at which time they
reconvened
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (REGARDING NON -AGENDA ITEMS)
Lois Larue 3136 Barkentine Road stated that the Chairman of the Planning Commission
had told her that he thought public speakers were important, however he did not allow
public speakers during an earlier agenda item She also did not think that the Chairman
should make motions. She also questioned the cones in the parking lot and asked what
they were for.
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Commissioner Long explained that the orange cones in the parking lot were to reserve
parking spaces for Commissioners who, if they arrive late, don't have to carry boxes of
information for a long distance He expressed the view that the Chairman had followed
all applicable rules and assured Ms. Larue that if he ever felt the Chairman wasn't
following established rules he would let everyone know.
Commissioner Paulson discussed public comments and stated that during the earlier
agenda item the Chairman asked if there were any speakers for the item. There being
no speaker slips submitted, the Chairman did not call for public speakers.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (CONT)
6. Grading Permit NO. 2191: Mr. and Mrs. Henru Wiredja, 3815 Palos Verdes
Drive South
Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He explained the project and
stated that the proposed height of the project was within the development code
requirements for an upslope lot. He stated that in reviewing the proposed residence
staff identified concerns with respect to view impacts with neighboring properties on Sea
Raven Drive as well as aesthetic impacts on Palos Verdes Drives South. However,
staff felt these impacts, with appropriate conditions, may be reduced to a level of
insignificance. He explained that the city geologist has given the project conceptual
approval, however, requiring further review at the Building and Safety stage.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked why the project did not have a silhouette
Senior Planner Mihranian replied that the flagging was only required for a height
variation application. He stated that this is a sloping lot and by right the height limit is 16
feet from the highest point and 30 feet from the lowest point covered by the structure
and therefore a height variation application was not required
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked about the driveway and what street that driveway
would be on.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that currently the driveway is located off Palos Verdes
Drive South, however the City plans to extend Aqua Vista Drive The driveway will then
be located off Aqua Vista Drive.
Larry Peha 67 14th Street, Hermosa Beach, stated he was the architect for the project
He stated that he has been working on the project for quite some time with staff and has
made quite a few adjustments. He noted that he has moved the residence
approximately 30 feet lower on the lot, adjusted the elevations, and substantially
reduced the size of the structure. He stated that the ridge of the proposed structure is
25 feet below the top of the property on Searaven Drive. He felt this resulted in no view
impacts from the neighbors above. He stated he agreed with all of the conditions in the
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staff report except for the flat roof in the living room entry area He did not think the
architectural feature had any impact that would not change with a sloped roof.
Vice Chairman Clark asked why Mr Peha felt the entry area should have a flat roof.
Mr. Peha answered that there is a commanding view at that point and they would like to
have a little higher ceiling in that area.
Commissioner Paulson asked Mr. Peha if he had any discussions with the neighbors
during the development of the project.
Mr. Peha responded that he had not.
Elaine Motz 32413 Searaven Drive stated that the unstable portion of the subject lot
was of great concern to her. She stated that the applicant has relocated the house to
avoid the unstable portion of the lot She did not feel it was wise to relocate the house
behind the unstable portion. She was concerned that heavy equipment would further
destabilize the lot. Until stability is established, she felt all other matters should be held
in abeyance.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if the instability was due to fill.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the staff report incorrectly used the word
"unstable" to describe the lower portion of the lot that contained uncompacted fill
Furthermore, staff stated that the geology reports indicated that because there is
uncompacted fill on a section of the property in order to build a structure on that section
of the lot, it would require an extensive caisson foundation system.
Commissioner Cartwright clarified that there was not instability on the lot, but rather
quite a bit of fill of the one section Therefore, the applicant proposed to move the
structure further back where it would be more cost effective to build
George Fink 32353 Searaven Drive was concerned about the driveway of the new
home. He felt there could be a dangerous situation at the site He stated that according
to the staff report his pad was at 395 feet, per the applicant. He noted that conditions in
the staff report are based on the 395 -foot elevation. He asked what the true elevation of
his pad was and if it was not 395 feet, he requested the conditions be changed to reflect
the actual elevation of his pad. He noted that the staff report states that vegetation
foliage may not exceed 395 feet. He requested the language be changed to say the
foliage and vegetation may not exceed 16 feet in height or an elevation height of 390
feet, whichever is the lowest He stated this would provide the protection that was
intended. He asked if irrigation of the landscaping of the new residence would likely
cause instability of the slope.
Commissioner Paulson asked for clarification regarding the foliage on the proposed
project.
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Senior Planner Mihranian stated that the condition reads the applicant is required to
submit a landscape plan and the foliage shall not exceed 16 feet in height or a
maximum elevation height of 395 feet, whichever is more restrictive He stated that Mr
Fink was asking that the condition be changed to whichever is lower, which staff could
change
Commissioner Paulson asked about the fencing along the rear property line
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that when staff was analyzing the height of the
structure and looking at the building pad elevations along Searaven Drive, Mr Fink's
property is the lowest, at an approximately elevation of 398 feet. He stated that is a
safe condition since it is actually lower than the contour elevation on the applicant's
property
Chairman Lyon asked how the pad elevation of Mr Fink's property was determined to
be 395 feet in elevation
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that a land surveyor determined the elevation, as
indicated on the surveyed site plan
David Campana 32405 Searaven Drive stated he has a magnificent view from his
property He was concerned that he maintains that view and was very happy to hear
that the fence line of the proposed property was below his pad He was concerned that
the foliage requirements be included in the conditions of approval He noted that there
are no fences in the neighborhood and a fence would destroy the views of the ocean
He stated that he was supportive of the proposed project and hoped things would go
well
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Chairman Lyon asked if the geology report clearly indicated that the proposed house
can and will be built on bedrock.
Senior Planner Mihranian answered that the city geologist has reviewed numerous
reports for the property and conceptually approved the project in August. He explained
that this was a conceptual approval and further reports will be submitted for approval
prior to the issuance of building and grading permits
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-36 with the
modifications noted to the elevation, fencing, and vegetation as suggested by the
speaker, seconded by Commissioner Paulson. Approved, (7-0).
At this point, Commissioner Long felt it was a good time to re-examine the Agenda He
felt that if agenda item no 7 were heard before the Long Point item, he was concerned
that Long Point would not be heard until very late He did not think this was in the best
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interest of the Commission or the City to begin the discussion of Long Point at such a
late hour. He recommended either putting item no. 8 in advance of item no 7 or
continue Long Point to another date, sufficiently in advance of the anticipated time the
City Council has set for hearing Long Point
Chairman Lyon polled the audience to see how many speakers there were for agenda
item no 7. He felt there was a significant number, and wanted to be sure that the
Planning Commission listened carefully to all of their concerns
Commissioner Paulson stated that he could not vote one way or the other on this
project tonight. He felt that he needed to see the parcel flagged and asked if there were
a way to continue the item and request the parcel be flagged.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that could be done. He also felt that the flagging issue
and another matter that staff wished to discuss could be addressed without having to
open the public hearing and the item could be continued to a future date.
Commissioner Vannorsdall agreed that he could not possibly make a decision until the
flagging was in place and that the item should be continued until the flagging was done
Vice Chairman Clark agreed that the item should be continued, however he felt that the
residents who have come to the meeting and waited to speak should be given the
chance to speak at this meeting.
Chairman Lyon agreed that the flagging was necessary. He felt there were other issues
that needed to be addressed and suggested the applicant work with the concerned
neighbors to understand and identify and alleviate any of these concerns.
Commissioner Cartwright noted that the entire project did not need to be silhouetted.
He felt the Commission and the neighbors were mostly concerned about the ridgeline.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that staff would like to address a flurry of late letter
writing regarding condition no. 8, which required that a portion of the property be
dedicated for public access He stated that it was staffs intention to delete this
condition, and hoped this would address many of the comments that would have been
directed to the Planning Commission.
Vice Chairman Clark recommended polling the audience to see how many people
wished to speak tonight, or hearing the discussion of the Planning Commission, would
be willing to wait and have the item continued
Chairman Lyon stated that it was clear the Planning Commission could not and would
not make a decision at this meeting regarding this issue. He stated that the
Commission needed to see an outline of the ridgeline of the house. He explained that
once the Commission has seen this ridgeline they could more rationally address
whether or not there was a view issue from each of the residences He polled the
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audience and noted a number of people wishing to speak at this meeting on agenda
item no. 7.
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he had spent a lot of time reading and studying the
material for the Long Point project and he did not want to continue that item to another
meeting He felt that Long Point should be heard and resolved at this meeting.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to suspend the Planning Commission rules to
continue beyond 11:00 p.m. in order to hear agenda item no. 8, Long Point,
seconded by Commissioner Paulson.
Commissioner Long was concerned that every time the Planning Commission reached
an important discussion regarding Long Point it has been very late in the evening He
urged the Planning Commission to consider why they would vote for this motion now
He felt that the most Important part of the Long Point decision was before the Planning
Commission and they needed to get the conditions of approval right, and he was
concerned that this could not happen if the decisions were made very late in the
evening
Assistant City Attorney Pittman stated that since item no. 7 was a publicly noticed item
the Planning Commission was legally obligated to open the public hearing. He stated
that the Commission could offer those speakers who are here and could not come back
to the next meeting and wished to speak to do so, and request that those who are able
to come to the next meeting hold their comments to that time
On a roll call vote of 4-3 the motion passed, with Commissioners Long, Mueller,
and Vice Chairman Clark dissenting.
7. Coastal Permit No. 170, Grading Permit No. 2260, Coastal Permit No. 172,
and Grading Permit No. 2281: Eric Johnson, 2 Yacht Harbor Drive
Senior Planner Fox presented the staff report He stated that all residential
development on the site would occur outside the landslide moratorium area. He stated
that there were two findings necessary for a Coastal Permit, and staff found that these
findings could be found. He explained that staff has assessed the likely impacts of the
project upon public views, and believe the impairment will not be significant. He also
stated that the Coastal Plan is that the project is consistent with applicable public
access and recreation policies of the Coastal Act However, since the Portuguese Bend
Community is a private community and does not provide public access to coastal
resources, the approval of the project has no affect on existing coastal access Further,
there is adequate existing coastal access nearby at Ocean Trails and Abalone Cove
Park. He discussed the grading applications and noted there are nine findings required
to be made. He stated that staff has found that all nine findings could be made for the
project He discussed the scale of the proposed residence, and while clearly much
larger than the 10 nearest homes in the Portuguese Bend Club and Seaview
Community, however considering the significantly larger lot size of the proposed project,
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the scale of the proposed house is in proportion to its lot as he homes in the
surrounding neighborhood He stated that there had been a number of letters received
regarding the project and the issues of concerns raised in the letters was the size of the
house relative to the surrounding homes, the height of the structure, impairment of
private views and the economic impact of impairment views on property values, damage
to nearby homes during construction, impacts upon land movement in the adjacent
landslide moratorium area, and the affects of headlights from vehicles on the realigned
portion of the street.
Commissioner Long asked how many other neighborhood compatibility analyses have
been done that include the structure -to -lot ratio analysis
Senior Planner Fox stated that he has done two or three others He stated that this was
done to show a meaningful comparison of developed lots
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing for the purpose of hearing those
individuals who cannot appear at the October 23 meeting.
Commissioner Paulson and Vice Chairman Clark both felt that anyone who wanted to
speak should speak, and the Commission agreed
Eric Johnson (applicant) 92 Yacht Harbor Drive acknowledged that there were those
who were concerned with the impact of the proposed project. He felt that once they
view the project on an impact standpoint, they will find the project has much less of an
impact than the previously approved Transamerica subdivision He stated that he has
worked very hard to situate the structures on the property to minimize the impacts to
surrounding properties He addressed the height of the structures, which are proposed
at a maximum elevation of 230 feet, which is lower than the previous development
proposal approved for the site He also noted that his proposal was 11,000 square feet
of structure above grade as opposed to the previously approved 70,000 square feet of
structure above grade He stated that the grading quantities for the project were
significantly less than those of the previously approved project and only 2,000 cubic
yards would be exported as opposed to 21,000 in the prior approved plan He stated he
was a professional scientist and geologist and it was very important to him to
understand the stability of the area he was building on He was very confident that the
area was safe to build on He stated that he has worked very hard to design a project
that was well within his rights to build He noted that there were no variances or height
variations required He stated that he would continue to work with the community to
make sure that everyone appreciates how good of an outcome for this site the proposed
project will be He stated that he would begin flagging the ridgeline immediately
Commissioner Paulson asked Mr Johnson if his definition of "community" included not
only Portuguese Bend but the houses across the street along Palos Verdes Drive
South
Mr Johnson agreed
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Jill Carlton 4265 Palos Verdes Drive South felt the look of the house was very lovely,
but was concerned with the affect of the road realignment. She stated that the applicant
has stated he does not require a Variance and is building what he can by right She
questioned this statement She stated that if the project were being permitted without
the road realignment, the ridgeline height would be at 230 elevation, which is in excess
of the code and therefore subject to a height variation. She felt the project should be
treated as a height variation with all of the proper procedures or the height of the project
should be lowered to comply with the height variation guidelines She felt that a road
relocation that effectively gives the applicant additional height leeway at the detriment of
her possible view should not be allowed without proper consideration. She felt that
approving the road realignment prior to silhouetting and approving the project itself
would be allowing the project to be approved under less stringent rules and public
scrutiny She stated that if the project were approved at 226 elevation she would have
no further objection to the project, as it would be equal to the ridge height approved for
the Transamerica project and less of an impact on the view on the view corridor
Commissioner Long asked staff to respond to the comments of the last speaker at the
next meeting. He felt these comments could be important as to whether or not the
Commission can go forward on the project on the assumption it does not need a height
variation. He was very interested on the City Attorney's views on how the road
realignment and the height variation interrelated.
Jack Jones 4225 Palos Verdes Drive South stated that he learned from the
Transamerica hearings that however is going to develop the property must work with
the community, which is more than the Portuguese Bend Beach Club He explained
that the applicant had invited the neighborhood to his home to explain the project,
however all he could determine at the time was that this was a huge and beautiful
development. He was not able to come to any conclusion as to what the impact would
be on his views. He felt sure, however, that it would have a severe impact on his view.
He was pleased the Planning Commission requested some flagging on the property and
encouraged the Commission to consider the realignment of the road together with
development of the home He acknowledged that Mr. Johnson should be able to
develop his property to his liking, and he should be able to do so within reason.
Deborah Huff 4245 Palos Verdes Drive South also had concerns about the views and
felt it was important to work through any legal issues regarding the height variation and
the road realignment. She stated she was very pleased to have the Johnsons in the
neighborhood but felt she had to express her concerns as a homeowner, which was the
possible loss of her view
Diane Weinberger 4206 Exultant Drive stated she was not notified about this project
and felt she should have been as she was the president of the Seaview HOA She
stated that she had just read the staff report and disagreed with some things and found
some discrepancies and inconsistencies. She stated she would put her concerns in a
letter to the Planning Commission which she would do before the next meeting. She felt
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it was important to have the applicant flag the ridgeline but added that the City should
still have the capability to flag the house if necessary.
William McLaughlin 4157 Maritime Road stated he was very happy with the proposal
and felt the applicant had listened to and accepted a lot of community input. He noted
that Transamerica had planned 15 houses for the area, where Mr. Johnson was
proposing only one. He was concerned that if the proposal was rejected there was
nothing stopping Mr. Johnson from selling the property to a developer
Steve Stewart 4164 Maritime Road stated he too was happy to have a single family
dwelling on the property rather than multiple homes that would impact the open space,
wildlife, and natural habitat. He felt the project was pleasing to the eye and was happy
that the applicant had worked so closely with the neighbors.
Lenee Bilski 4255 Palos Verdes Drive South distributed photographs to the
Commissioners. She discussed the road and felt the road was proposed to be
relocated rather than realigned. She stated that this would change the measurements
in the plan as the structural height was based on the new road location. She felt that
the two -degree viewing arc was measured from her property. She felt that either the
two -degree arc should be measured from 220 -foot elevation of Palos Verdes Drive
South or the height variation should be applied to the project Regarding geology, she
asked if a construction bond could be issued which would allow the houses in the
Seaview area to be protected or insured by the applicant or his agent in case of any
earth movement. Finally, she commended the Commission on their request for a
silhouette at the property
William Silverthorn 93 Yacht Harbor Drive noted that the applicant could build a house
up to 16 feet in height by right however the proposal was 12 feet in height.
Furthermore, by moving the road the applicant was moving the house farther away from
Palos Verdes Drive South, giving another 4 feet of view. He didn't think there was a
more welcome design that could be put on the property which has all of the neighbors'
views in mind.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Paulson moved to continue the hearing to the meeting of October
26, 2001 with the direction that the applicant flag the ridgeline of the proposed
project, the proposal of the road realignment and the new home be considered
jointly at the next meeting, and the staff address the points raised by the public,
seconded by Chairman Lyon. Approved, (7-0).
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 11:00 p m. the Commission took a short recess to 11:10 p.m. at which time they
reconvened.
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October 9, 2001
Page15
CONTINUED BUSINESS
8. Long Point Resort: Consisting of Coastal Permit No. 166, General Plan
Amendment No. 28, Conditional Use Permit No. 215, Conditional Use
Permit No. 216, Parcel Map No. 26073, Grading Permit No. 2229, Grading
Permit No. 2230 and the associated Final Environmental Impact Report:
Destination Resorts (applicant) 6610 Palos Verdes Drive South and 30940
Hawthorne Boulevard.
Chairman Lyon suggested addressing the three issues for Long Point in turn: first the
EIR Resolution, followed by the Conditions of Approval for the resort hotel area, finally
the Conditions of Approval for the Upper Point Vicente area
Senior Planner Mihranian presented a brief staff report. He reviewed the Resolutions
with the attached Exhibits. Regarding the Resolution for the Upper Point Vicente area,
he noted that the Resolution will be amended to eliminate the trail segment between
hole 2 and the Coast Guard property He stated that, while not specifically mentioned in
the motion, it was staff's understanding that the lookout pavilion along the trail will also
be eliminated Mr. Mihranian addressed the traffic section of the Conditions of Approval
and noted a correction pertaining to page 11, condition no. 75 for the resort hotel area
as well as page 9, condition no 63 for the Upper Point Vicente area. He stated it
should read: "the west leg with one left turn lane, one shared left and through lane, and
one right turn lane." He concluded by stating that the contents of the Resolutions were
based entirely on the project findings that were previously reviewed by the Commission
and an action on each Resolution must be made in order to forward the proposed
project to the City Council.
Commissioner Long referred to the draft resolution for the EIR on page 4 of 7, section 4,
and asked staff for an explanation for where the reference is to guideline section 15084
(e) and what the general provisions of that section are.
Assistant City Attorney Pittman quoted Section 15084 (e) to the Commission
Chairman Lyon suggested each Commissioner express, in turn, any concerns they had
with the EIR.
Commissioner Paulson asked for clarification regarding the fencing. He stated that the
EIR discussed no fencing being allowed but also discussed fencing being provided
around certain areas to provide mitigating measures.
Senior Planner Mihranian stated that low fencing (6 to 8 feet in height) would be allowed
along the golf course to ensure public safety
Commissioner Paulson asked if those fences would block the movement of the wild
animals in the area from moving from one location to another
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October 9, 2001
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Assistant City Attorney Pittman stated that there was a specific requirement that the
fencing along the habitat areas be of a split rail nature, or something similar, to provide
pass-through for the wildlife
Commissioner Cartwright, Chairman Lyon, Vice Chairman Clark, and Commissioner
Vannorsdall had no comments regarding the EIR
Commissioner Long referred to page 5 of the draft resolution. He did not believe the
Commission could or should make the findings set forth in sections 6 or 7 Regarding
section 10 of the resolution, he felt the finding suggested an implicit endorsement of the
use of public land for the project. Therefore, he could not agree with finding no. 10.
Regarding Exhibit A, Commissioner Long noted on page 9, wildlife movement. He felt
the project would result in a fragmented habitat that was less useful. On page 28, F3,
he disagreed with the statement that the recreational uses proposed by the project were
generally consistent with the Program of Utilization. He disagreed with the statement
that proposed recreational facilities would be designated for public use. He also
disagreed with the statement that the proposed use will be consistent with the deed
requirements that Upper Point Vicente be used and maintained for public purposes He
felt the project was making as much use of the land for private purposes as public He
referred to page 28, item 1, which stated that an amendment to the program of
utilization shall be prepared. He felt that any necessary program of utilization
amendments should come before the approval of the project
Commissioner Long next referred to page 46 which discussed the various alternatives
analyzed by the Final Environmental Impact Report. He stated that those alternatives
did not include any serious analysis of the alternative the Vice Chairman suggested,
which was that the project proceed in a manner that would have some relationship with
Ocean Trails and not make use of a subsidy of public land He stated that the alternate
use of other property owned by the current owner of Long Point was also seriously not
considered, as well as the possibility of reduced hotel taxes as an alternate public
subsidy was not considered
Commissioner Long discussed page 47, the reasons for rejecting the no project
alternative. He referred to the last sentence regarding the use of additional acreage
and stated he disagreed with it. On page 52 he noted a statement which said the
existing entitlements on the Long Point property were not considered viable. He stated
that in the very evening the Planning Commission approved the extension of the
existing entitlements, the Commission was also finding the existing entitlements were
not considered viable.
Commissioner Long stated that these were his concerns certifying the EIR strictly from
the draft resolution and findings, however he had questions concerning the actual EIR,
which he understood the Chairman was not inviting the Commission to submit those
questions to staff at this time.
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Commissioner Mueller agreed with the questions raised by Commissioner Long and
added that on pages 36 and 37 there was a lot of discussion on public service and
utilities. He stated there was no mention of water consumption, which he felt should be
included. On page 40 he asked why the EIR did not address the glare issue when
discussing the parking. He discussed page 45 and objected to the statement in the
project alternatives which stated the Planning Commission finds that specific economic,
social, and other considerations make infeasible each of the project alternatives
identified. He did not think economic considerations should be included, particularly
since the Commission had never reviewed any report from the Finance Committee. He
noted on page 50, the word "infeasible" which he felt could be softened to say "less
desirable" He did not think some of the options were completely infeasible. He also
did not think the wording in the first sentence on page 52 was appropriate and should
state the property was undeveloped and natural rather than under developed and
dilapidated.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to forward a recommendation to the City
Council to certify the Environmental Impact Report, seconded by Commissioner
Cartwright.
Commissioner Long stated that he had comments on Exhibit B which he had not made
previously. On page 2, he objected to the statement that additional revenue to the City
would come from concessions for the use of Upper Point Vicente He stated that, in the
absence of any report from the Finance Committee, there was no evidence to support
that statement and it was purely speculative On page 4 he read the sentence at the
top of the page, stating that any one and each of the forgoing benefits constitutes a
significant consideration sufficient to approve the project. He asked the Commission if,
in reviewing the bullet points on pages 3 and 4 of the findings, if any one of those alone
was enough.
Chairman Lyon suggested wording to replace the "any one and each" that states the
Planning Commission specifically finds that the forgoing benefits constitute significant
consideration sufficient to approve
Commissioner Paulson suggested striking the "quality" in the statement "quality golf'.
The motion passed, (4-3) with Commissioners Long, Mueller and Vice Chairman
Clark dissenting.
Chairman Lyon then addressed the conditions of approval for the resort hotel area,
which includes Exhibit A through a resolution. He noted that the resolution merely
states all of the findings that the Planning Commission has already approved, therefore
the Planning Commission should focus on the conditions of approval.
Commissioner Long agreed, and added that while some Commissioners may not be
able to make the necessary findings they may have comments on the conditions of
approval that the rest of the Commission may find useful.
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October 9, 2001
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Commissioner Paulson noted on page 14, regarding the resort villas He was
concerned that the height restriction that the villas cannot exceed the height of Palos
Verdes Drive South was not included in the conditions He noted a typo on page 22,
condition no. 158.
Chairman Lyon commented that on page 2 it would be better to put item no. H before
item no. C. He stated that item H addresses the development of the area formerly
known as hole no 5 and item no C addresses the maintenance and financial
responsibility for those improvements. He also suggested adding a phrase to the end of
no. H to say "to the satisfaction of the City Council." He also suggested adding another
item to no. F that addresses the equitable allocation of tee times available for the public
and hotel guests
Vice Chairman Clark stated that there was a component missing in the assumption that
this project was using City land, which was the ability to form a Rancho Palos Verdes
men's and women's golf club open to residents of Rancho Palos Verdes who will have
priority
Chairman Lyon referred to page 16 item no. 105. He suggested inserting "or practice
facility" in the phrase "no safety netting for the golf course shall be permitted." He noted
a typo in item no. 104
Vice Chairman Clark referred to condition no. 35 which discusses specific structure
sizes on the Long Point property. He asked why the condition stated that the structures
substantially comply.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that buildings typically deviate slightly and is rare that
the size would come in at exactly 20,000 square feet. He suggested clarifying the
condition to state that the building shall not exceed 20,000 square feet
Assistant City Attorney Pittman stated that the reason the condition is worded this was
because when actual construction plans are drawn up, the dimensions and square
footages change slightly He stated that staff was working off plans that are
predominately elevations and floor plans. He explained that sometimes when
construction plans are finalized the square footages will shrink
Vice Chairman Clark asked what "substantially complies with" means.
Assistant City Attorney Pittman answered that "substantially complies with" means
within a reasonable amount He stated that if the conditions state 20,000 square feet
and the plans show 30,000 square feet that would be an issue for the Planning
Commission or City Council to discuss.
Commissioner Vannorsdall noted that "substantially complies with" was less restrictive
than cannot exceed.
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October 9, 2001
Pagel9
The Commission agreed
Commissioner Long referred to page 2, 8b He suggested it be re -written as follows. "A
guarantee of minimum revenue generation as projected by the applicant, and a
guarantee of all of the applicant's financial obligations under the development
agreement in a form and amount acceptable to the City Council, preferably an
irrevocable letter of credit which will be provided to the City prior to the issuance of
building permits "
Commissioner Paulson agreed with this change
Commissioner Long did not think an insurance provision should substitute for indemnity
provisions. He felt very strongly that adequate indemnity provisions be included He
stated that the indemnity should provide that the City enter into an indemnity agreement
with an entity that has net worth
Assistant City Attorney Pittman suggested adding to condition 8 another paragraph that
includes specific language that an indemnity agreement shall be part of the
development and/or concession agreement.
Commissioner Long discussed condition 19 and suggested the City require adequate
insurance for the operation of the golf course with the City being named as additional
insured He felt there should be adequate insurance to cover the resort operation in
general and did not feel that $5 million in limits was adequate He felt that the limits
should apply separately to the site He suggested the city staff and city attorney review
and approve the form of the policy, and not merely the certificate of insurance
Assistant City Attorney Pittman stated that most of Commissioner Long's concerns are
addressed in the City's standard requirements for insurance and asked if it would suffice
if a provision were inserted stating any insurance policy shall comply with all standard
requirements of insurance as determined by the risk manager
Commissioner Long felt that would satisfy his concerns He then discussed combined
pedestrian/bike paths and reiterated that he felt those types of paths were undesirable
Mueller discussed page 16 and the conditions regarding fences He asked that a
condition be added addressing fencing along Palos Verdes Drive South He suggested
any fencing along Palos Verdes Drive South be modeled after the fencing that was
installed in front of Oceanfront Estates on Palos Verdes Drive West.
Commissioner Cartwright felt that the requirement should only be on the ocean side of
the street, as that would tie the properties together
Assistant City Attorney asked for clarification in the matter of the joint trails He asked if
there were any changes proposed regarding that issue
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Chairman Lyon answered that there were no changes regarding joint trails.
Assistant City Attorney Pittman asked about the insurance issues. He suggested
increasing the limits of the grading insurance and also suggested dealing with the
insurance and indemnity issues together as part of the development agreement for the
overall project, and the concession agreement, with respect to use of public property.
Commissioner Long stated that his point was that somewhere the City had to express
the concept that if the developer is going to operate a public golf course with public
easements and partially on public land, the City had some potential liability and the
developer should provide insurance that meets the City standard requirements, has
adequate limits, has limits that apply separately to the site, names the city as an
additional insured, insurance is primary as the City's insurance, insurance has low
deductible and other terms and provisions adequate to the City's risk manager, City
Council, and the city attorney with the form of the policy and additional insured
endorsement being reviewed by all concerned.
Commissioner Paulson suggested Commissioner Long review the wording for the
insurance requirements prior to formalizing the resolution to the City Council.
Commissioner Long agreed to review the language to ensure the spirit of what the
Planning Commission said was included with respect to the insurance requirements
Chairman Lyon moved to approve the resolution and conditions of approval for
the Long Point site as amended by everything said, other than the combined
pedestrian/bike trail, seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (5-2)
with Commissioners Long and Mueller dissenting.
Chairman Long clarified that his no vote was made solely because he did not feel he
could make the finding the resolution requires him to make on page 4 of 18, where the
resolution incorporates findings regarding the Environmental Impact Report In all other
respects he was satisfied that the resolution was suitable
Chairman Lyon noted that the next item to discuss was the resolution for the General
Plan amendment, which was fairly straightforward.
Chairman Lyon moved to adopt the Resolution regarding General Plan
Amendment No. 28 and forward the recommendation to the City Council,
seconded by Commissioner Paulson. Approved, (4-3) with Commissioners Long,
Mueller, and Vice Chairman Clark dissenting.
Chairman Lyon next discussed the conditions of approval for the Upper Point Vicente
area and again noted that the resolution contained language that was discussed at the
previous meeting. He began the discussion by referring to page 14, item 106. He
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October 9, 2001
Page2l
suggested adding grading to the requirements, so the statement would read "The
developer shall grade, landscape, and irrigate the area formerly known as hole no. 5."
Commissioner Long felt it was ambiguous to refer to the area as "the area formerly
known as hole no. 5." He suggested attaching a map that defines the area referred to
as former hole no. 5.
Assistant City Attorney Pittman suggested taking the plan from September 6 and
incorporating it as an attachment that identifies the areas on the plan that were being
discussed.
Commissioner Long had a comment on item no. 41 on page 6 He suggested adding a
statement that to the extent there are any drainage grates in the bikeways, the drainage
grates shall be placed in a manner that is perpendicular rather than parallel to the
direction of traffic.
Vice Chairman Clark noted that condition no 42, regarding the cart and pedestrian
paths, should state specifically that golf cart paths shall be curbed so that golf carts do
not drive onto the pedestrian paths. He also referred to condition no 25 and asked why
July 4th was specifically singled out for requiring that the entire golf course be closed
down.
Commissioner Paulson asked if condition 25 was necessary because of condition no
26. He felt condition no 26 accomplishes what is needed for both conditions
The Commissioners agreed that condition no. 25 should be eliminated.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution 2001-40 thereby
approving the conditions of approval for the Upper Point Vicente area, as
modified, seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (4-3) with
Commissioners Long, Mueller, and Vice Chairman Clark dissenting.
Chairman Lyon noted that the Planning Commission has now forwarded a
recommendation to the City Council on the Long Point project for their consideration at
their November 7 meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Vice Chairman Clark asked that an item to allow for an update on the neighborhood
compatibility guidelines be included on the next agenda.
►l • U - 0 M XT, F1
The meeting was adjourned at 12:36 a.m.
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