PC MINS 20010724APPROVED
141
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JULY 24, 2001
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lyon at 7.05 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Director/Secretary Rojas led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Cartwright, Long, Mueller, Paulson, Vannorsdall, Vice
Chairman Clark, and Chairman Lyon
Absent None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rous,
Acting Senior Planner Mihranian, Associate Planner Schonborn, Assistant Planner
Yu, Assistant City Attorney Pittman, Finance Committee Chairman Earl Butler, Traffic
Committee Chairman Jim Jones, and Recording Secretary Peterson
Director/Secretary Rojas stated he had received a late phone call from a resident
confined to a wheelchair wishing to speak on Agenda Item No 6 asking if it were
possible to move the item to be heard immediately after the Long Point project,
Agenda Item No 2 There being no objection, it was so ordered by the Chairman.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rous reported that the City Council had adopted the first reading
of the Equestrian Ordinance at their last meeting
Director/Secretary Rotas distributed one item of correspondence regarding Agenda
Item No 2 He also distributed several items of late correspondence regarding
Agenda Item No 2
Chairman Lyon reported that he had a discussion with Mike Mohler.
Commissioner Long distributed to the Planning Commission copies of all of the e-
mail he had received regarding Agenda Item No 2
Commissioner Cartwright stated that he had received a packet of information from
SOC II He stated he had received no e-mails but had received several faxes
Commissioner Paulson reported he had received 6 e-mails and 1 fax.
Vice Chairman Clark and Commissioner Mueller reported they had received e-mails
consistent with Commissioner Long's handout.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Minutes of July 10, 2001
Commissioner Long noted a typo on page 2 of the minutes
Commissioner Long clarified his statements on pages 12, 15, 16, and 18 of the
minutes
Chairman Lyon instructed the recording secretary to verify from the record whether
Commissioner Long's amendments were correct and make the appropriate changes
Commissioner Cartwright noted one clarification to his statement on page 12 of the
minutes
Chairman Lyon directed the minutes be reviewed at the meeting of August 14, 2001
for approval
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Long Point Resort. Destination Development Corporation (applicant)
6610 Palos Verdes Drive South and 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard.
Acting Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He explained that the
Traffic Committee had approved an amended staff recommendation of approval with
appropriate conditions and mitigation measures He stated that staff had provided
the Planning Commission with the information the Planning Commission requested in
regards to parks and recreation acreage within the City limits Mr Mihranian briefly
summarized information provided in the April 10 staff report regarding the deed
restriction and program of utilization for the Upper Point Vicente area He also
discussed the updated 1989, City's Master Parks Plan, which notes that a municipal
golf course on the Upper Point Vicente area is considered a possible use provided it
is given priority to residents
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 2
Commissioner Cartwright proposed displaying the matrix included in the staff report
for the public to comment on
Chairman Lyon stated that the matrix would be displayed during the Commission's
discussion of the criteria following the public hearing. He stated the public would be
allowed to comment on the criteria during that time
Vice Chairman Clark questioned how the Planning Commission could make a
decision on this project before the public comment period for the final EIR was over.
Assistant City Attoney Pittman answered that the Planning Commission is serving in
an advisory capacity for this particular item and that all information available, with the
sole exception of the public comments, is available for the Planning Commission to
make a recommendation, both with the respect to the use of City land and with
respect to the environmental analysis done to date Any recommendation as to the
adequacy of the EIR can be qualified based on the outcome of the comment period
He noted that there were some time constraints because of the process deadlines set
by CEQA.
Vice Chairman Clark asked for clarification on what extent the Planning Commission
was acting in an advisory capacity for this project
Mr. Pittman answered that the Municipal Code states that in cases where there are
joint or multiple applications they would be consolidated in front of the highest
decision making body He noted that in this case, since the City Council has to make
the decision with respect to the General Plan Amendment and the use of Upper Point
Vicente, they would then become the decision making body for the entire project
Commissioner Long asked about any processing deadlines
Mr Pittman responded that the only time deadline that would come into play was the
one with respect to certification of the EIR He explained there was a one-year time
limit on processing EIR's from the date the project is deemed complete, which in this
case was July 18, 2000 He noted that the City has received a time extension from
the applicant which would give the City until October 17, 2001 to certify the EIR He
stated the Permit Streamling Act was not applicable because there was a legislative
act involved in this project
Commissioner Cartwright felt that since a key piece of the EIR was being recirculated
for public comment, the Planning Commission could make a negative decision on the
project, but could not make a positive decision until the process has been complete
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the distinction was approval versus denial and
that the Planning Commission does not need to certify the EIR to deny the project
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 3
Assistant City Attorney Pittman noted an affirmative recommendation could be made
to the City Council, however the City Council could not adopt the affirmative
recommendation until the EIR is certified
Earl Butler, Chairman of the Finance Advisory Committee, explained to the Planning
Commission that his committee had not yet made any recommendations to the City
Council and probably would not be doing so until after their August 22 meeting He
explained that the City Council had requested the answer to three questions 1) Is
the basis for computing the revenue tax base from Destination Resorts reliable, 2) Is
the projected revenue to the City achievable; and 3) Is the use of City land for the
golf course necessary for protect financial feasibility.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if the process had been lengthy because the
Committee had trouble getting necessary information from the developer
Mr Butler responded that there had been many variables, including the City Council
asking for additional information midway through the process He stated the
consultants for the Finance Advisory Committee have been asked to look at quite a
bit of information and report back to the Committee.
Vice Chairman Clark referred to the question regarding the necessity of City land for
financial feasibility and asked if the Finance Advisory Committee had any information
that would help the Planning Commission.
Mr Butler responded that the developer had told the Finance Committee that the
project was not feasible without golf on the public land He noted that things had
changed with the project since then and he could not speak for the developer
Commissioner Long asked if the Committee was going to consider golf not on site but
nearby on another property.
Mr Butler answered that this was not a question asked by the City Council to
consider
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Long. There being no objection, the public hearing was
opened.
Mike Mohler 11777 San Vicente Blvd , Los Angeles (applicant) stated he had read
the staff reports With respect to the review of citywide parks and recreation
amenities he noted that there was the potential of a 700 -acre acquisition of open
space in the landslide area not noted in the report With respect to the feasibility of
use of the Upper Point Vicente property, he felt that the property was feasible for use
as part of the proposed project. He referenced City documents that have consistently
postulated active uses, including golf, on the site He felt the proposed project was
appropriate and optimizes the public use of the property. He felt public access to the
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 4
property was enhanced by virtue of the project design Lastly, he felt the public
benefits generated by the project were more than could be generated if the project
were not built He urged the Commission to direct staff to prepare conditions of
approval for the proposed project for the August 14th meeting. He stressed to the
Commission how critical the proposed 9 -hole golf course, practice facility, and golf
school were to the success of the project He stated the golf course was a critical
attractor of guests to the resort, both to group and leisure business He stated there
was no replacement attracter that would allow the developer access to the market
segments needed for a feasible project He stated the golf course was more than a
recreation amenity, as it created resort ambiance and sense of arrival that no other
amenity could He stated that a healthy Ocean Trails was important but did not solve
the need for an on-site golf amenity for the proposed project He explained that the
spa, while important, was perceived as a given in resorts such as Long Point and
was not a pull for the major market segments He stated that the initial reports of the
consultants for the Finance Advisory Committee indicates that the golf course is
absolutely essential for the project. Mr. Mohler acknowledged the July 20, 2001 letter
from the Villa Capri HOA supporting the resort plan, including holes 3 and 4 next to
their property He stated that all adjacent Homeowners Associations have now
spoken their support for the plan.
Commissioner Paulson asked Mr Mohler what type of guarantees there would be
that the public would have access to the golf course
Mr Mohler responded that the City had the ability to guarantee public access to the
golf course on City owned property by the inclusion of conditions placed on the
approvals. With respect to the Long Point property, he stated the developer would
record any covenants in favor of the public that the City desired to guarantee public
access to the golf course He stated that the plan submitted to the City indicates their
projection that the golf course would be used half by the general public and half -used
by the hotel guests
Commissioner Paulson asked if a person from the general public had equal rights to
the golf course in regards to tee times and availability.
Mr Mohler responded that the public would have equal rights and the developer
would record whatever appropriate covenants to guarantee that.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the golf course was a deal breaker for the
developer
Mr Mohler stated that the exclusion of golf would be a deal breaker.
Alice Slater 4219 Dauntless Drive realized many decisions were political and hoped
the Planning Commission would not make a political decision but rather decisions
that were good for the people in the community. She was not against the developer
building on their own property but was against using City land for the golf course.
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2041
Page 5
Jim Knight 5 Cinnamon Lane urged the Planning Commission not to rush into making
any decisions on the project. He questioned how the developer was given
permission to consider public lands in their development without a public hearing. He
felt the Commission should consider the concerns of the resource agencies. He
asked how a plan could be approved that was in direct conflict with the NCCP He
asked how a golf course could be qualified as public use, as only 2 percent of the
population plays golf. He stated that when asking the developer why they could not
shuttle golfers to Ocean Trails, one response was that tee times could not be
guaranteed for the guests He wondered if that meant tee times would then be
guaranteed for guests if golf were approved at the resort. He stated he had spoken
to Ken Zuckerman at Ocean Trails He had indicated that he would provide advance
reservations that would satisfy the resorts golf package requirements. He asked if
there had been adequate analysis to determine if the proposed project was viable on
the developers land alone He did not think the Planning Commission could make a
decision before the full reading of the Environmental Impact Report
Barbara Satler 1904 Avenida Aprenda urged the Planning Commission not to rush
into any decisions
Bob Nelson 6612 Channelview Ct stated the Finance Advisory Committee has been
in receipt of the City consultant's report since June 13 and briefly discussed portions
of the report He felt the Finance Advisory Committee has delayed their decision for
too long and their delay was costing the City money in possible income. He stated
he had attended a Finance Advisory Committee meeting and felt the Committee had
become hotel resort consultants He felt the Committee had challenged the
applicants and the City consultants in numerous and sometimes minutia what-if's.
He did not think the citizens of Rancho Palos Verdes did not need this attitude He
stated that the City of Palos Verdes Estates owns golf club land and receives
approximately 20 percent from that land. He asked that Rancho Palos Verdes try to
do the same
Gloria Anderson 6818 Los Verdes Drive felt if would behoove the Planning
Commission and City Council to tell the citizens of Rancho Palos Verdes what would
happen if the project failed.
Lee McGee 34 Avenida Corona felt the application lacked an essential element,
ownership of the property in question He felt that use and control of the City owned
property created a serious problem He had heard no assurances that in the event
the City approves the request, that the applicant will not be asked to make a further
contribution of public land in the future to expand the golf course. He felt the
applicant should be required to submit a plan for the resort on their own land,
excluding all City owned land
Tom Coull 49 Santa Catalina Drive stated that by delaying this project to the extent It
has taken so far has cost millions of dollars in tax revenue. He felt that to make an
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 6
investment in Rancho Palos Verdes was an unattractive proposition and felt there
was something drastically wrong with the process. He felt changes needed to be
made in the process for any future projects He endorsed the project and felt it would
beautify the coastline of Rancho Palos Verdes
Marianne Hunter 1 Cinnamon Lane asked the Planning Commission not to rush a
vote on the project. She felt that land issues were very important and decisions could
not be taken back once they were made She asked if the developer had bought the
Long Point property on the belief they would get public land that they felt was
absolutely necessary for the viability of their project She felt that if that were the
case then how could one trust their judgement She stated that the Planning
Commission and City Council would have to make a decision as to what type of City
they wanted to live in, as this project would change the City She did not think the
City had to give away Upper Point Vicente to clean it up She felt that if the City
showed some movement towards taking control of the area and allowing the public to
clean the area, then maybe some of the people supporting Long Point would change
their minds
Joseph Picarelli 30311 Via Borica stated he was speaking on his own behalf and not
on behalf of the church He felt that with all of the discussions on the financial
analysis and the many possibilities was proof that the City was getting involved with a
speculation He did not think it was responsible for the City to risk City assets with a
private developer for the benefit of the private developer. He felt the Planning
Commission should note that the City's consultant dealing with Destination
Development and the Finance Advisory Committee was operating under a
confidentiality agreement as to what it sees and what it can report back to the
Financial Advisory Committee
Ann Shaw 30036 Via Borica stated she had a letter from a travel consultant stating
that a 9 -hole golf course was not draw and that there were many other successful
resort hotels on the west course that do not have golf amenities attached to them
Scotty Wuerker 4036 Via Pima PVE (speaking for Barbara Gleghorn) stated that it
was not often that the front page of the Sunday New York Times carries an article
about what happens in Rancho Palos Verdes She referred to a headline "Here are
the new courses, now where are the golfers?" She recommended the
Commissioners read the article. She stated the belabored discussions about
rearranging the golf holes on the park is only a diversion She stated the only reason
the developer wanted to use the park for golf was to make room for the residences
on the Long Point property She felt that leaving the park as part of the project it
could be construed as implying more support for inclusion of the villas. She stated
that voting "no' on the use of City land then the real negotiations would begin
Eric Paris 29234 Stadia Hill Lane suggested the Planning Commission approve the
project in it's original proposed hotel size with a 9 -hole golf course completely on the
Long Point site, but designed to accommodate a possible addition to the structure at
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 7
a phased date He felt this would serve many benefits. He felt it was far easier to fill
a smaller hotel, it would ease approval and lowers the initial construction costs, it
would show the project viability or lack thereof, and it would provide concrete facts
rather than the developers optimism and the residents fears He stated that after the
project completion and period of operation the developer could then come back to
the City for any adjustments to the project size and layout He realized this would be
more expensive than originally planned, there was the possibility now that they are
not going to get what they want If felt if this would have been done in the mid 1990's
they could have had an operating project years ago He felt the City should move
carefully and deliberately. He noted the developer has waited years before
presenting the project which he felt meant that the developer had no economic
urgency
Vic Quirarte 29369 Quailwood Drive stated he was speaking as a private individual.
He acknowledged that he was the vice president of the Council of RPV Homeowners
Association, at which time there were 26 members He noted that not one of the
members has shown support for the proposed project He noted that the staff report
was in error in saying there were no trails at Upper Point Vicente and stated he had
taken many people on hikes on the existing trail. He did not think the City should
give away public land when at the same time the City was trying to purchase
additional public land.
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Quirarte if any of the 26 homeowners
associations had taken a vote on their position on the proposed Long Point project
Mr. Quirarte stated the various homeowners associations had not taken a vote on
their position and it was something he had hoped the City would have asked for more
input from the various homeowners associations.
Lois Larue 3136 Barkentine Road asked the Planning Commission to deny the use of
City land. She stated that if the villas were removed from Long Point there would be
plenty of room on the property for the entire 9 -hole golf course
Frank Bescobv 19 Surrey Lane felt the subject being discussed was the best use of
public land, not just the use of public land He felt that anyone who has ever walked
the property realizes what irreplaceable property it is and it should not be given away
for such a minimal use
Ruth Bescobv 19 Surrey Lane stated the Commission should simply state that golf is
not the best use of the parkland for everyone. She felt the City would ultimately be
responsible for damages to property caused by errant golf balls and the Commission
should also keep that in mind.
Stases Petravicius 15 Seacove Drive felt the developer could build the hotel and golf
course today without the use of the Upper Point Vicente land He stated the city
would still receive tax revenue from that development He did not think there was
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 8
any compelling reason to develop the Upper Point Vicente site for a few possible
extra dollars He felt the parksite should be developed for the majority of residents
desires and felt the City should do a survey as to what the people want. He did not
think there was any hurry to develop the site He supported the SOC II proposal and
felt it was an attractive and viable use of the Upper Point Vicente land He stated that
Rancho Palos Verdes was a residential bedroom community and not a resort
destination
Rowland Driskell 30 Via Capri read excerpts from letters from the National Park
Service and U S Fish and Wildlife discussing their concerns on the use of the Upper
Point Vicente land and the habitat on the land
Holly Cain 52 Avenida Corona discussed a survey she conducted on the number of
acres the four peninsula cities had devoted to golf use She noted that Rancho Palos
Verdes presently has twice as many acres devoted to golf as any of the other three
cities She stated that the Upper Point Vicente land was part of the Federal Lands to
Public Parks Program She discussed Del Cerro Park, Wilderness Park in Redondo
Beach and Whites Point Park in San Pedro as good uses of public land She stated
in the April 24 staff report to the Planning Commission there were 5 places listed that
had golf associated with the Federal Lands to Public Parks Program She stated she
called all places and noted that all five were completely public courses with no
priorities given to tee times She asked the Planning Commission keep the Upper
Point Vicente Park as public land
Chairman Lyon noted that at this time Commissioner Mueller would have to leave the
meeting to catch a flight out of town He asked if Commissioner Mueller would like to
say anything to the Commission before leaving
Commissioner Mueller felt there was a lot of public input regarding this very complex
issue He noted that the land was provided to the City by the Federal Government
and the rules of the land are clearly defined in the application He felt this land
should be completely accessible to the public and it was hard for him to understand
how the public could have access to this property if the proposed development were
approved He acknowledged there were benefits to the City and public but it was
hard for him to go along with any proposal that used public land at Upper Point
Vicente to augment the development at Long Point. He preferred to see the
developer use his own property for the proposal
Commissioner Mueller moved to continue the decision on inclusion of Upper
Point Vicente Park in the proposed development project to the next meeting of
the Planning Commission, seconded by Commissioner Long.
Vice Chairman Clark felt it was important to continue taking public testimony at this
meeting but agreed that the Planning Commission will not attempt to make a decision
on the use of public land until the next meeting
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 9
•
Commissioner Mueller accepted Vice Chairman Clark's statement as an
amendment to his motion, seconded by Commissioner Long.
Commissioner Cartwright agreed but also felt that the Commission should address
the criteria expected to be used to make the decision He felt the Commission should
be able to make a very rational decision and that could not be done without an
agreed upon set of criteria
Chairman Lyon stated that these criteria would be discussed at this meeting
The motion passed, (7-0)
Ray Mathys 5738 Whitecliff Drive stated that in 1993 the City Council determined that
the use of public land for golf course purposes in conjunction with the Long Point
development was in the best economic interest of the City Therefore use of the
public land for a portion of the golf course required the successful development of the
Long Point hotel project was agreed to by the City Council eight years ago In order
to avoid the risk of compromise to the City's integrity he requested the previously
approved use of public land for golf course purposes in conjunction with the Long
Point hotel project be reconfirmed and the project be approved as submitted
Dena Friedson 1737 Via Boronada PVE stated the only program of utilization
approved that was approved by the National Park Service was approved in 1976 and
stated that 68 acres could be used for passive recreation She felt Rancho Palos
Verdes was very fortunate to own Upper Point Vicente and would not be able to
purchase it at today's market price
Osair Omar 27 Via San Remo stated he objected to the Long Point resort because of
the great potential of damage to his home He stated he had submitted to the
Planning Commission a petition signed by 90 percent of the homeowners at Villa
Capri to save the coastline and vote against the Long Point resort. He stated the
Board of Directors at Villa Capri had sent the Planning Commission a letter in July
expressing support of the project, which contradicts the actual residents position
Linda Lawler Freitag 22 Via Capri clarified that the petition discussed by the previous
speaker was signed under false pretences She stated the petition stated there
would be a driving range adjacent to the Villa Capri property and that was what the
signers of the petition were concerned about. She stated that subsequent to that the
Board of Directors at Villa Capri felt that the majority of homeowners have given input
that they would be happy to have the development adjacent to their property She
discussed the concerns of previous speakers that the property would have minimal
use by the public She stated that she lives adjacent to the property and there is less
than minimal use of the property now
Jim Jones, Chairman of the Traffic Committee, stated that the Traffic Committee
answered a very specific, narrowly defined question He stated the question was
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 10
could the impacts on traffic of this project as presented be mitigated. He felt that the
decision that the members of the Traffic Committee made was the position that
objective citizens would have made if they had studied the issue In as much depth at
the Committee did.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if the study included all of the known projects that
affect the area
Mr Jones stated the Committee considered not only the Long Point project, but
eleven other approved and known projects. He stated they also considered the
ambient growth of 5% up to the year 2010
Commissioner Long asked if the Committee had considered the effects of traffic
outside the City limits
Mr Jones stated all three of the intersections that needed mitigation were outside of
the City limits. He stated there were 22 intersections in the South Bay that were
studied
Commissioner Cartwright asked Mr. Jones to summarize how the Committee came
to their conclusions.
Mr Jones explained that three aspects of traffic are studied volume, access, and
internal circulation He discussed the peak hour study and how the proposed project
would not have an impact on the peak hour traffic periods. He discussed the
proposed tunnel and stated that there were three existing tunnels already existing in
the area He did not think the tunnel appeared to have a dramatic impact on traffic in
any way
Vice Chairman Clark asked if the Traffic Committee had looked at the traffic impact
on First Street in San Pedro
Mr Jones stated that there was some conceivable impact to First Street but it was
considered insignificant
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 9:30 p.m. the Commission took a short recess until 9:40 p m. at which time they
reconvened
CONTINUED BUSINESS {CONT.}
Chairman Lyon explained that the Commission should discuss the criteria that should
be used in making a decision He stated that staff had prepared a chart that displays
the various factors that staff considered important in making a decision. He noted
that the chart was currently being displayed on the overhead projector and copies
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 11
were available for the public to review. He explained that the Commissioners had
been asked to look at the chart and make their own assessments as to whether these
were the right issues and whether there should be other items added Chairman
Lyon discussed the six criteria listed on the chart He stated that the level of
importance of these factors was up to the individual Commissioners to evaluate.
Vice Chairman Clark suggested adding safety issues, zoning changes, public
support, deed restrictions, City Program of Utilization, and alternative uses to the
chart
Commissioner Long agreed with the Vice Chairman Clark's suggested additions He
had no problem with the listing of potential issues on the matrix and agreed that the
Commissioners should assign their own level of importance to these issues.
However, regarding the remainder of the chart, he felt there were value judgements
made and he did not agree with many of these He was particularly concerned with
the implicit assumptions in the "No Project" discussion He suggested deleting the
right hand three quarters of the matrix and list only the potential issues He felt the
Commissioners could then go through their own analysis for each issue and their
level of importance
Vice Chairman Clark agreed with the suggestion.
Commissioner Cartwright also agreed with Commissioner Long's suggestion. He felt
this matrix should be used as a framework that will be very useful for the
Commissioners He stated that in addition to what is on the matrix he would ask if
the project were possible, if the project were approved as submitted would it be
successful, and what does the City get in exchange for the use of the public land. He
also discussed the economic impacts to the City in terms of social costs, traffic
impacts, and environmental concerns in comparison to the benefits of new trails,
parks, covered lookouts, and the projected revenues to the City
Chairman Lyon stated that there were now suggested criteria and each
Commissioner should continue to think about what is important to them He stated
that at the next meeting each Commissioner should come back being comfortable
with the reason why he believes as he believes. He did not think it was necessary to
have a common list for the entire Commission of the different factors and felt it was
important that each Commissioner have reasons for their beliefs He asked staff to
revise the worksheet by eliminating the two right hand columns and leaving a space
for comments He asked staff to list all of the additional factors suggested by the
Commissioners Chairman Lyon hoped that all Commissioners would be able to
attend the August 14 meeting where he hoped some decisions would be made
Vice Chairman Clark suggested arranging the factors in alphabetical order so that no
prioritization of importance is implied
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 12
•
The Commission briefly discussed holding a special meeting before August 14 to
discuss the Long Point project, but it was decided that the first available date all
Commissioners would be available would most likely be August 14 Therefore, the
commission continued the public hearing to the meeting of August 14, 2001
PUBLIC HEARINGS
6. Vesting Tentative Parcel Map No. 26047: Mr. Robert Patterson
(applicant) 27965 Palos Verdes Drive East
Assistant Planner Yu presented the staff report. She briefly explained the application
and stated that staff had reviewed the proposed land division in accordance with the
City's Subdivision Ordinance and the State's Subdivision Map Act and found that the
proposed land division complies with the requirements in terms of lot size, lot
dimensions, access to Palos Verdes Drive East, and access needed to develop the
lot. She stated that staff had received one letter of correspondence pertaining to the
project from the adjacent neighbors They had expressed concerns in regards to
view obstruction from any future structure proposed on the newly created lot. Staff
felt view obstruction could be mitigated With that, staff was recommending approval
of the project with conditions
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing
Herbert Burack 27995 Palos Verdes Drive East stated that he bought his home for
the open space and the quiet serene neighborhood He stated that by dividing the
subject lot into two lots the new proposed house was compatible with the
neighborhood He wanted to be sure that when the new house was proposed he
would be assessed as to where the house will go, whether it meets with
neighborhood compatibility, that it meets the 16 foot high limit, and where they will be
allowed to fill in dirt on the property to allow the house to be built at a higher level
Commissioner Paulson explained that the applicant could build a house higher than
16 feet with the proper approvals from the City
Mr Burack understood that.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained that the applicant is proposing a deed restriction
that would run with the lot that would restrict the maximum height of the any future
structure on the newly created lot to not exceed the elevation of the building pad of
the existing residence
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to adopt P C. Resolution No 2001-17
thereby approving with conditions, Tentative Parcel Man No 26047 as
presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Paulson. Approved, (6-0)
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 13
CONTINUED BUSINESS (CONT)
3. Appeal of the approval of Height Variation Permit No. 915 and Site Plan
Review No. 8948. Podesta Designs, representing John and Geoveva
Robinson (applicant), Michael & Elizabeth Zuanich; Brian, Bill & Sandra
Ruddock; Charles & Suzanne Henning; Albert & Pauline Brockmann;
Tom & Helen Matulich, and Ronal & Donna Reynolds (appellants)
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He reviewed the original
appeal heard by the Planning Commission and the direction that the Commission
gave to the staff and applicant. He explained that the meeting between the applicant
and appellants occurred He stated the concessions that were made were in regards
to the overall height of the structure and trellis work that would be added along the
sides of the proposed balconies He stated there was no other design changes
proposed There was also discussion regarding the outside lighting and it was
agreed that this lighting would be removed He explained that staff believed these
types of changes were consistent with past methods used to address neighborhood
concerns in previous Height Variations Staff felt that the findings could still be made
to approve the Height Variation and Site Plan Review, and therefore recommended
that the Commission deny the appeal and uphold the Planning Director's approval of
the applications
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff if they were satisfied that the early
neighborhood consultation process was followed correctly
Associate Planner Schonborn stated that staff felt the early neighborhood
consultation process had been performed correctly
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Bill Ruddock 28627 Mt Lassen Lane felt the meeting with the applicant did create
some dialogue, however he felt that the bigger issues of privacy, mass, and square
footage were not resolved and no concessions made He noted that moving the
second story closer to the front of the house would help with privacy and view issues
He stated he was a little disappointed with the outcome and had hoped for a few
more concessions
Raul Podesta 797 Miraflores Ave San Pedro stated he was the architect for the
project. He stated he had tried to address the concerns of the adjacent neighbors
He stated he had tried to explain to the neighbors that because of the layout of the
existing house it was not feasible to add the second story closer to the front of the
house
Genoveva Robinson 28633 Mt Lassen Lane briefly addressed the issue of the early
neighborhood consultation process She explained that she had shown plans to all
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 14
of the neighbors and had taken as much time as needed to explain the plans to
anyone who had questions.
Marty Haupt 28620 Mt Lassen Lane stated he was in support of the proposed
project and felt it would enhance the neighborhood He felt it was reasonable to want
a second story house, especially when most of the houses around it were also two
story
Helen Matulich 28614 Mt. Whitley Way stated she lives directly behind the applicant.
She stated that every time she looks out of her window she will look at the building.
She felt the applicant could look directly into her yard. She felt all of her privacy
would be lost as well as a portion of her view. She stated this second story addition
would be affecting seven different families in the neighborhood
Mrs Ruddock 28627 Mt Lassen Lane stated that she had never seen the plans
during the early neighborhood consultation process
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Chairman Lyon stated that the property owner has certain rights under the
Development Code of the City of Rancho Palos Verdes He felt that everything the
applicant had proposed was within his rights and supported by the City Code He felt
it was unfortunate when things in the neighborhood change after many years, but
noted that the last to build has the same rights as the first to build. He felt the Code
was balanced in protecting the rights of the property owner as well as the neighbors
Commissioner Paulson moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-18 thereby
denying the appeal and upholding the Director's conditional approval of Height
Variation No. 916 and Site Plan Review No. 8948 as presented by staff,
seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall.
Commissioner Long urged the Commission to vote against the motion. He did not
think all of the findings could be made to deny the appeal He did not think finding
no 6 could not be treated as being identical to finding no. 4 in that it had not been
proven to his satisfaction that the current design was designed to minimize view
impacts on the property behind the applicants He noted finding no. 8 regarding
neighborhood compatibility which he did not feel could be made He stated the
proposed structure would be approximately 70 percent larger than average structure
and 15 percent larger than the next largest structure in the neighborhood. He stated
this was only the second home in the immediate neighborhood with more than 3,000
square feet He stated that based on the way the neighborhood compatibility
standards seem to be applied, one could expect the next application to come in to be
15 percent larger than this one and the Commission would be told this was
compatible with the neighborhood He also felt that finding no 9 could not be made
regarding the unreasonable infringement of the privacy of occupants abutting
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 15
residences. He stated that based on his site visits, the proposed project appears to
infringe
Commissioner Cartwright stated this was a situation where the applicant was asking
to do something that others in the neighborhood had already done He felt it was
usually a problem for the last one in the neighborhood to try to do something like this
without somehow impacting someone to some degree He felt the applicant had the
right to build the second story and felt the findings could be made.
The motion was approved, (5-1) with Commissioner Long dissenting.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (CONT
Commissioner Long noted that Planning Commission rules state no new item would
be heard after 11:00 p.m. He asked the Chairman to request the Commission
suspend the rules in this situation.
Chairman Lyon stated that in light of the shortness of the remaining items the rules
should be suspended and the Commission agreed.
4. Grading Permit No. 2243 and Site Plan Review Permit NO. 8987: Larry Peha
(applicant) 4105 Palos Verdes Drive East
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report He briefly explained the
proposed project and the need for the Grading Permit He stated that staff was able
to make all of the necessary findings for approval of the application and therefore
recommended approval
There were no public speakers for the project.
Commissioner Long moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-19 conditionally
approving Grading Permit No. 2243 and Site Plan Review No. 8987 as
presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner Paulson. Approved, (6-0).
5. Height Variation Permit No. 918 and Site Plan Review Permit No. 9165: Mr.
and Mrs. Michael Christensen (applicants), 28924 Morro Bay Drive
Acting Senior Planner Mihranian presented the staff report He noted two areas of
concern identified during the public noticing period First, he explained that the
neighbor at 29146 Oceanridge Drive had concerns with potential view impacts from
the existing foliage on the applicants property He noted that the applicant has
trimmed the foliage and in order to assure the foliage does not grow into the viewing
area, staff has added a condition that the applicant maintain the foliage at its present
height Secondly, the neighbors to the north at 28918 Morro Bay Drive expressed
concern with loss of privacy with the proposed addition. He stated that staff has
recommend the windows in the master bathroom be clerestory and translucent, and
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 16
•
that the window in the rear bedroom be clerestory and raised at least 5 feet above
the finished second floor.
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Michael Christensen 28924 Morro Bay stated that the biggest area of concern was
from the neighbor to the north was that their privacy would be infringed upon if there
were windows added to the north side of the building fagade facing his yard He
explained that he took panoramic photos from the top of his house of the views from
20 feet up and from 30 feet up He stated he could not see into the neighbor's
backyard from either height because of the existing foliage He requested the
proposed conditions on windows in question not be translucent nor clerestory Mr
Christensen distributed the photos he took of the privacy concern to the Planning
Commission.
Commissioner Cartwright asked about the existing code violation on Mr
Christensen's property
Mr Christensen stated that the code violation consisted of toys in the front yard and
he would be in compliance with the code as of the morning
After viewing the photographs Chairman Lyon felt the foliage represented a
reasonable visual barrier He asked staff that with such a barrier, if they would still
recommend the clerestory and translucent windows
Acting Senior Planner Mihranian stated that foliage could always be removed at any
time, and believes the condition protects the neighbor
Commissioner Long asked who owned the foliage.
Mr Christensen stated he owned the 40 -foot avocado tree and all of the other foliage
was on his neighbor's property. He stated that the avocado tree constituted a large
portion of the screening in the back of the house as it was approximately 40 feet high
and 25 feet wide.
Chairman Lyon asked if he would look into the neighbor's backyard if the avocado
tree were removed
Mr Christensen said he would not look into the backyard because there were fruit
trees all along the property line
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2001-20 thereby
approving Height Variation No. 918 and Site Plan Review No. 9165 with the
deletion of condition of approval no.12 addressing the windows, seconded by
Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (6-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
July 24, 2001
Page 17
7. Height Variation No. 920, Grading Permit No. 2274, Minor Exception
Permit NO. 320, and Fence/Wall & Hedge Permit No. 36: Mr. and Mrs.
Kiger (applicant) 30375 Diamonte Lane
Commissioner Long moved to continue the public hearing to August 28, 2001
as recommended by staff, seconded by Commissioner Paulson Approved,
(6-0).
NEW BUSINESS
8 Planning Commission e-mail addresses
Chairman Lyon stated that historically and traditionally there have been conventional
ways of communicating with the Planning Commission direct correspondence and
through the public hearing process However, through technology there is now
another way through e-mail He felt there was no guarantee that any given
Commissioner was going to receive and read material sent by someone directly to
the Planning Commissioners He explained that staff had suggested opening an e-
mail address for the Planning Commission at City Hall He felt that e-mail could go to
that address and the Director would then receive the material and make the
judgement to forward it to the Commission, put it with the staff report, or deliver it to
the Commission on the night of the meeting
Commissioner Paulson completely supported the new e-mail site at City Hall
Director/Secretary Rojas noted that the public has the perception that e -mailing the
Commission directly is the most efficient way to contact the Commissioners, however
he felt this new e-mail address would be the most effective way for the public to
contact the Commission, since the Commissioners would receive the same
correspondence at the same time He noted that the Commissioner's personal e-
mail addresses are currently on the Planning Commission roster, which is public
information He asked if the Commissioners wanted their personal e-mails taken off
of the roster
The Commission agreed to have their personal e-mail addresses taken off of the
roster and the new e-mail address of pc@rpv com replace it.
Chairman Lyon moved to have all e-mail correspondence directed to the new
city hall e-mail site and have all personal e-mail addresses removed from the
roster, seconded by Commissioner Paulson. Approved, (6-0).
ADJOURNMENT
Chairman Lyon adjourned the meeting at 11 36 p m
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