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CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 14, 2000
ROLL CALL
Approved
Nov tuber 28, 2000
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Lyon at 7:00 p m at the Fred Hesse
Community Building, 27301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Paulson led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Cartwright, Long, Mueller, Paulson, Vannorsdall, Vice
Chairman Clark, Chairman Lyon
Absent None
Also present were Director of Planning, Building and Code Enforcement Rojas, Senior
Planner Fox, Associate Planner Mihranian, Associate Planner Schonborn, and
Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
There being no objection, Chairman Lyon approved the agenda as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Secretary Rojas reported that at the upcoming City Council meeting of
November 21, 2000 the Planning Commission's proposal for a joint City
Council/Planning Commission workshop will be presented.
Director/Secretary Rous stated there was one item of late correspondence regarding
agenda item No 3, which came in after the Monday deadline The Planning
Commission directed staff to distribute the letter to the Planning Commission
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of October 24, 2000
Commissioner Mueller noted that on page 10 of the minutes, the first paragraph did not
include his entire statement and asked staff to clarify the paragraph after listening to the
tape
Commissioner Paulson noted a typo on page 4 of the minutes He also noted that on
page 5, last paragraph, the sheriff's department had responsibility in the area and not
the private security force hired by the developer. Director/Secretary Rojas agreed
Vice Chairman Clark pointed out two typos on page 6 of the minutes.
Chairman Lyon noted typos on page 11 of the minutes, asked for a paragraph on page
12 to be clarified, and noted that the vote was not shown for the item ending on page
13.
There being no objections, the minutes were approved as amended, (6-0-1) with
Commissioner Long abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
2. Height Variation No. 888 and Site Plan Review No. 8637 — Time Extension:
Sanjay and Kirti Celly, 27041 Whitestone Road.
Associate Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He explained that the
applicants were requesting a time extension of a project that was heard by the Planning
Commission on an appeal of the Director's decision He noted that, according to the
Development Code, approvals obtained on an appeal are valid for six months. The
approval expired on August 22, 2000. However, the applicants requested a one-year
time extension on July 31, 2000 due to substantial hardships that resulted in delays. He
noted that although the applicants are requesting a one-year time extension, the
Development Code limits the time extension on an appeal decision to six months.
Therefore, staff recommended the Planning Commission grant a six-month extension,
to February 22, 2001, via minute order
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Kirti Celly 27041 Whitestone Road (applicant) explained that the original architect for
the project no longer was associated with the project and she has not yet been able to
hire another architect. She further felt that, since the original planner for this project no
longer works for the City, there have been many delays in the dealings with the City.
Therefore, she was requesting a one-year extension of the project from tonight's
meeting She noted that she had not yet received a copy of the staff report.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2400
Page 2
Commissioner Long asked staff what the Development Code allowed as far as
extensions
Associate Planner Mihranian responded that the Development Code allowed a one
time, six-month extension.
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the Development Code states that an extension
may be granted for up to 180 days. Staff has interpreted that to mean that less time
may be granted but that it does not give the authority to grant more.
Commissioner Vannorsdall noted that in the past the Planning Commission has granted
more than one six-month extension on projects. He felt it was acceptable to come back
in six months to request another six-month extension.
Director/Secretary Rojas agreed that in the past applicants have been granted more
than one extension
Commissioner Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to approve the time extension as
recommended by staff.
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the applicant could request a second six-month
extension.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that if the applicant were to request an additional
extension staff would have to recommend denial of the extension as the current
language in the Development Code did not allow a second extension.
At the request of Commissioner Long, Director/Sectary Rojas read aloud the exact code
section relating to time extensions.
After listening to the exact code section, Commissioner Long felt the Commission could
only grant a six-month extension from August 22, 2000, which was when the approval
expired
Chairman Lyon suggested extending the approval for six months from tonight's date.
Vice Chairman Clark felt that there had been precedence set to allow for more than one
six-month time extension
Commissioner Long felt that precedence may have been in error since there was
specific language in the Code regarding extensions.
Commissioner Long seconded Commissioner Vannorsdall's motion.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 3
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that for as long as he had been on the Planning
Commission repeated requests for additional time extensions had been granted He felt
that the Planning Commission should have the opportunity to warrant a further time
extension. He noted that it may not be specifically in the Code but it had been practiced
many times by the Commission
Commissioner Paulson felt the Planning Commission should comply with the Code by
adopting the staff's recommendation and if the applicant returns to ask for another
extension, the Planning Commission should then make their decision at that time.
Chairman Lyon moved to amend the motion to extend the approval period from
six months from today's date, seconded by Vice Chairman Clark. The motion
failed, (3-4) with Commissioners Long, Mueller, Paulson, and Vannorsdall
dissenting.
Director/Secretary Rojas clarified that the previous Code was vague in addressing
extensions. He noted that the 1997 amendments to the Code allowed a one time, six-
month extension. However, even though there is precedence set fore more than one
extension in the past, the code did change in 1997 to be more specific on this issue.
Vice Chairman Clark asked staff if this application had fallen between the cracks, as the
applicant had stated, with the departure of planning staff.
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that the project planner was no longer with the City
and the department has also lost another planner since then. Therefore, it has taken
the department a little longer than usual to reassign this project He also stated that he
met with the applicants in May when they first considered modifying their approved plan
and advised them of the process involved to seek an extension and that extensions
were routinely approved
Vice Chairman Clark felt there were special circumstances in this project. He stated
that the applicant had shown a desire to continue with the project but needed a new
architect and had some delays through the Planning Department. He felt that in a City
that tries to work with the residents that the Planning Commission should consider the
circumstances in this extension.
Commissioner Long responded that the power of the Planning Commission was limited
to what was given to them by the Development Code
Chairman Lyon felt the Planning Commission could go one step beyond the
Development Code to consider what was fair and right in each situation. As long as
there was nothing prohibiting the Planning Commission from doing something, he felt
the Planning Commission should do what was right
Commissioner Cartwright was concerned that staff felt there was no latitude to extend
this application more than one time and felt there must be some way the applicant, with
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 4
this kind of hardship, could request and receive an additional extension at the end of the
original 180 day extension.
Commissioner Paulson did not think the door was closed Staff may recommend,
based on the Code, denial of the second extension However, it may be the
Commission's desire at that time to grant a second extension
Commissioner Vannorsdall repeated his motion, which was seconded by
Commissioner Long, to approve the staff recommendation as presented.
Approved, (7-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
3. Conditional Use Permit No. 158 — Revision `C', Coastal Permit No. 94 —
Revision 'A', Encroachment Permit No. 32, and Sian Permit No. 1096:
Oceanfront Estates, Palos Verdes Drive West and Hawthorne Blvd.
Commissioner Long recused himself from this item, as his law firm represents Capitol
Pacific Holdings, and left the dais for the hearing.
Senior Planner Fox presented the staff report He briefly reviewed the decision made at
the last Planning Commission meeting. He explained that the observation booths at
Calle Entradero and Via Vicente have been moved farther back from Palos Verdes
Drive West and the silhouettes have been modified to reflect a 14 -foot and 12 -foot tall
booth. He noted that the proposed booths both still exceed the 120 square foot
standard of the City and the Site Plan still depicts non-functional gates at the booths.
He explained that staff felt the relocation of the booths did provide for increased queuing
area for vehicles, however staff did not believe the revised location addressed view
impairment or psychological barrier to entry issues. Therefore staff did not support the
revised location of the booths. He explained that the developer provided an option to
construct 3 tract entry observation booths in the small medians at the entry to the
interior streets of the tract Staff felt that this placement of the booths reduces or
eliminates the view impairment and presents less of a psychological barrier to entry and
public access. He explained that each booth is proposed at 15 -feet tall and 329 square
feet in area. Mr. Fox noted that the developer wanted the larger booths to
accommodate a handicapped restroom. However, staff confirmed that the Island View
development was able to provide a handicapped accessible restroom within the
confines of a 12 -foot tall, 120 square foot booth area. As such, staff did not feel the
applicant demonstrated compelling justification for the larger booths and recommended
denial of the alternative booths on that basis. With respect to other issues raised at the
last Planning Commission meeting, the developer continues to work on completion of
the blufftop loop road and offstreet parking areas. Staff recommends requiring the
developer to complete this work within 30 days of the final date of city action on this
application Staff also recommended that the developer prepare a sign plan for public
access and trails Finally, the developer has trimmed the landscaping along Palos
Verdes Drive West so as not to exceed the tract perimeter fencing In conclusion, staff
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November 14, 2000
Page 5
recommended conditionally approving Conditional Use Permit No 158 Revision 'C' and
Sign Permit No 1096 and denying Coastal Permit No 94 Revision Wand
Encroachment Permit No 32
Commissioner Paulson asked staff to explain their understanding of the purposes of
these observation booths
Senior Planner Fox stated that it was staff's understanding that these booths were to
provide a location for security personnel to monitor or possibly video tape persons
entering and exiting the tract. The personnel were to provide a sense of security to
persons purchasing the homes in the neighborhood
Commissioner Paulson stated that the guard booths were on City owned property and
asked if there were any liability issues with a private entity video taping cars that were
traveling on public streets
Senior Planner Fox stated that the issue had been introduced during the hearing for the
guard booths at the Island View tract. At that time the City Attorney felt there was no
reasonable expectation of privacy for persons driving on public streets and did not see a
problem with allowing Island View to videotape cars coming in and out of the tract.
Commissioner Paulson asked staff if the Planning Commission was to be considering
the landscaping plans
Senior Planner Fox responded that there was a condition in the Resolution specifically
indicating the landscaping shown on the plan was not part of the request. A more
precise landscaping plan will be presented to staff for review at a later date
Chairman Lyon commented that at the last Planning Commission meeting the
Commission had sent the applicant away with some suggestions and clear direction on
what was acceptable and what was not. He felt the developer had come back with only
minor changes to what had been originally proposed, which was not consistent with the
Planning Commission direction
Chairman Lyon opened the public hearing.
Rob Katherman (representing the applicant) 19300 S Hamilton Ave #230, Gardena
stated that the applicant would withdraw their request for the security booths at the front
entrances of the development and focus on the three booths on the interior streets of
the development. He stated that the non-functional gates would be removed from the
plan He discussed the ridge height of the proposed booths and stated that it was 12
feet in height. However, there was a cupola on the roof, to provide some design interest
to the building The height of the cupola was approximately 5 feet. He felt that in a
development of upscale homes it was important not to put a boxy feature at the
entrances to the development. Mr Katherman discussed the Coastal Act. He felt that
the new location of the observation booths, off of the main loop road, provided the
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 6
balance required for coastal access to the public and protecting the private property
rights of the future homeowners. He discussed the size of the booths and noted that
they would be placed in a large circular median. The shape of the building would be in
keeping with the circular shape of the median and would provide something that was
attractive to the area The architecture would blend in and enhance the homes in the
development In summary, Mr. Katherman asked the Planning Commission to consider
the request to allow the observation booths in the newly proposed locations. He felt
what was proposed was a valid compromise
Commissioner Cartwright stated that the Planning Commission had expressed concern
at the last meeting over the size and height of the previously proposed guard booths.
He asked Mr. Katherman why then the developer was now proposing a higher, larger
guard booth than the previous ones
Mr. Katherman responded that the ridge height had been reduced from 14 feet to 12
feet. The cupola on top of the building did raise the height to close to 15 feet. The
cupola is an architectural feature that the Planning Commission could use their
discretion on. He explained that the size of the buildings were not based on a desire to
create a monstrosity in front of the homes, but rather to provide a building that the
architect had a sense of proportionality and character to it.
Commissioner Paulson asked if the developer had looked into alternative measures to
meet security concerns, other than observation booths
Mr Katherman answered that roving patrols had been considered and would be used in
addition to the observation booths.
Commissioner Paulson asked if the architect had been asked to design an observation
booth based on the city parameters.
Mr. Katherman stated he would have to defer to the representative from CPH to answer
that question.
Tim Hamilton (representing Capitol Pacific Homes) stated that the information was
given to the architect with instructions to attempt to meet the Commission's request to
consider the relocation of the booths He was asked to try to find something that would
look in keeping with the houses in the project
Commissioner Paulson asked Mr Hamilton if it was his intent to video the cars entering
and exiting the development 24 hours a day
Mr Hamilton answered that no set plans have been made, but it would seem the
sensible thing to do Long term, he felt the homeowners association would make the
decisions of video taping
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2400
Page 7
Nick Mowlds 6832 Verde Ridge Road stated that he was on the Planning Commission
when this project was approved and at the time it was very specifically stated that there
would be nothing blocking the view of people driving along Palos Verdes Drive South.
He was disappointed to see vegetation allowed along the fence after the prior
Commission had worked for 90 percent light and air requirement on the fence He
stated that he was involved with the Island View community and that there were no
longer guards in the booths. Island View has found it much more economical to run
video cameras 24 hours a day.
Vice Chairman Clark asked Mr Mowlds his opinion on the newly proposed guard
booths.
Mr. Mowlds responded that he did not think a small guard booth similar to the ones at
Island View would be appropriate for this development. He did not think the guard
booths should be located near Palos Verdes Drive South, however, and supported the
alternatively proposed locations
Suzanne Detwiler 3 Clipper Road #C objected to the guard booths being placed on city
property and felt that security should be a responsibility of the homeowners association
She did not feel that anything that could be construed as an intimidating presence for
security purposes should be located on city property. She did not think these booths
should be seen from Palos Verdes Drive West or Hawthorne Boulevard. She requested
the landscaping be kept low to preserve the view corridor
Virginia Leon 30413 Via Cambron felt very strongly that the view corridor along Palos
Verdes Drive West be maintained. She further stated that she was still against any type
of guard or observation booth at the development.
Penny Fooks 30457 Via Cambron stated that she had spoken in opposition to the
project at the last public hearing. However, she has since looked at the project and felt
that the developer had attempted to compromise and had suggested locations for the
guard booths that make sense. She did not feel the new locations disrupted the view
from Palos Verdes Drive West. Regarding the size, she did not see any negative or
positive affect on the public by having them larger.
Robin Lynch 30413 Via Cambron stated that the new location for the guard booths was
a nice compromise She felt the signs on Palos Verdes Drive West were too
commercial and not in keeping with the theme of the City. She also felt the fountain and
wall were too garish
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Paulson complimented the applicant for listening to the Planning
Commission and making an effort to find an acceptable compromise He stated that the
new locations for the booths were acceptable to him, however he was still concerned
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 8
with the size of the booths. He felt that if the cupola were removed, the height of the
structure would be acceptable.
Commissioner Cartwright also commended the applicant for being sensitive to the
public and Planning Commission concerns He was particularly pleased that the non-
functioning gate had been removed from the plan. He too was pleased with the
relocation of the booths but was also concerned with the height, size, and mass of the
structures.
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that he was against the use of observation booths in
the public right-of-way He felt it was an intimidation to the public using public streets
and did not think it was appropriate. He did not think this type of arrangement would
solve any problems.
Commissioner Mueller stated that his main concerns were to preserve the views from
Palos Verdes Drive West and the intimidation factor to the public He was pleased that
the booths had been moved further into the development. He was concerned about the
height and felt that the cupola may have to be removed He was also concerned about
the size of the structure, but felt that if they were not visible from Palos Verdes Drive
West then it may not be as important He too was pleased that the non-functional gate
had been removed from the proposal.
Vice Chairman Clark supported the alternate location of the booths He felt it was a
balance of rights and needs between the community and the developer. He felt that
removing the booths from the tract entry removed the potential psychological barrier to
the public access. He felt that together with the proper signage there should be a more
enhanced utilization by the public of the land that is dedicated to the public Mr Clark
felt that the cupola may be aesthetically interesting in the design, was not necessary for
the overall compatibility with the rest of the project. Removing the cupola would lower
the height to 12 feet, which was more acceptable to him. The size of the structure was
a concern, and Mr Clark suggested a compromise between the city requirement and
the developer's design He felt that reducing the size to 250 square feet would be an
appropriate size. He also suggested a 6 -month review of the project to access how the
observation booths are actually operating
Chairman Lyon felt that the public had made many valuable comments at both of the
meetings and the applicant had been responsive to those comments in presenting the
revised proposal He felt the relocation of the observation booths to the interior streets
is now proper. He did not have a problem with the size of the booths as long as they
were architecturally pleasing and not offensive to the public. He felt that the new
location would not deter the public from using the public road to access the trails and
did not think there was a view obstruction at 12 or 15 -feet in height.
Commissioner Paulson asked for clarification as to whether the Commission would be
approving simply a building or approving a manned observation facility
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 9
Senior Planner Fox stated that the Planning Commission was considering a building
that would serve as an observation booth.
Chairman Lyon added that Mr. Clark's suggestion of requiring a 6 -month review would
also address any problems that might exist at that time
Vice Chairman Clark moved to approve the project with the following revisions.
the observation booths be moved to the three interior entries; the height of the
observation be no more than 12 -feet in height; the cupolas be removed; the size
of the booths be no more than 250 square feet; add a condition to the conditions
of approval that requires a 6 -month review on the operation of the observation
booth; appropriate signage be added to the 3 observation booths; removal of the
non-functional gates; and if the use of the booths are to change it must then
return to the Planning Commission for approval. Seconded by Commissioner
Cartwright. Approved, (5-1-1) with Commissioner Vannorsdall dissenting and
Commissioner Long recused.
Director/Secretary Rous noted that the revised Resolution would be presented at the
next meeting for approval. He also noted that there was a problem with the Permit
Streamling time limits and asked the applicant for an extension, which the applicant
agreed to.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 9.20 p m. the Planning Commission took a short break until 9 30 p.m. at which time
they reconvened, with all Commissioners present.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. Site Plan Review No. 8697 — Revision 'A': The Villas at Rancho Palos
Verdes 7700 Beachview Drive.
Associate Planner Schonborn presented the staff report. He explained that the
applicant requested modification to a condition of approval of the original 1998 decision
The applicant was requesting the use of chain link fencing instead of the required
transparent glass around the perimeter of the tennis court. Mr Schonborn noted that
use of the transparent glass was very expensive and also created an issue of potential
glare and reflection which could not be treated or mitigated. Staff determined that the
chain link fence would not result in any impact beyond that already associated with the
transparent glass. Therefore, staff recommended approval of the application.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2000-40, thereby
approving Site Plan Review No. 8697 — Revision `A' amending Condition of
Approval Nos. 13 and 15, as presented by staff, seconded by Commissioner
Mueller. Approved, (7-0).
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 10
5. Height Variation No. 899 and Grading Permit No. 2151: Joe Nassiri
(applicant) 3787 Coolheights Drive.
Associate Planner Mihranian presented a brief staff report explaining that during the
noticing period staff had received several letters from surrounding property owners
regarding the proposed project, with concerns pertaining to view impacts, trail
easements, and brush removal. Staff felt that additional time was needed to research
and obtain additional information regarding the concerns, the applicant was contacted
and it was agreed the project should be continued to a date uncertain. He explained
that when all of the necessary information had been obtained, the project would be re -
noticed
There being no objections, Chairman Lyon ordered the item tabled, with
appropriate public notices re -circulated and republished in accordance to the
Development Code, prior to any hearings on the project.
6. Height Variation No 900 and Site Plan Review No. 8769: Craig Quinn, 5743
Sunmist Drive.
Associate Planner Mihranian presented the staff report. He explained the proposed
project and the need for the Height Variation and Site Plan Review applications He
explained that during the required noticing period several letters were submitted to the
City from the neighbor to the immediate east (5733 Sunmist Drive) The concerns
raised pertained to the impairment of ocean and island views, the impairment of sunset
views, neighborhood compatibility, and the decrease of property value due to potential
view impairment He noted that staff was unable to assess whether there would be an
impact in property values In regards to concerns pertaining to ocean and island views,
he explained that pursuant to the Development Code, the height variation guidelines
indicate the protected viewing areas are defined as the primary living spaces, such as
the living room, dining room, family room, or kitchen on the level nearest grade. The
only exception to that would be when the primary living space is located on the upper
level for a home originally constructed that way without a height variation. He explained
that according to a site visit the view impairment in question occurs from the bedrooms
on the upper level located over the existing garage. He explained that although staff
does believe that a view impairment exists from the upper level bedroom area, based
on the layout of the floor plan and the primary living spaces being located on the lower
level, staff did not believe the view constituted a protected viewing area He further
noted that staff felt the proposed project was compatible with the surrounding
neighborhood and would be only slightly larger than the largest of the surrounding
homes He stated that staff felt the project was designed to be compatible with the
neighborhood He distributed a photo board showing the potential view impairment as
taken from the bedroom area of the neighbor to the east of the applicant and photos
showing what currently exists in the surrounding neighborhood. Therefore, based on
staff analysis, staff recommended approval of the proposed project.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2400
Page 11
0
Commissioner Paulson asked if the property owner could plant trees along the eastern
boundary of the property that grew to block the views of the neighbor to the east, was
there any mechanism in place to prevent this view blockage.
Commissioner Long stated that as long as the trees do not block a view from a
protected viewing area, there is nothing to prevent the view blockage from these trees.
He stated that he did not particularly like the way the viewing area was defined in the
Code.
Commissioner Mueller asked about the feasibility of putting the addition over the living
room, dining room, and kitchen area.
Associate Planner Mihranian explained that the Code allows a structure to be built to a
height of 16 feet and anything beyond that height would require a Height Variation He
also explained that a Height Variation allows a structure to be built to 26 feet and
anything beyond that would require a Variance. In reviewing the project staff had
looked at the possibility of taking the extra square footage and locating it elsewhere on
the structure. Taking into account the existing grade elevations, if the square footage
were to be placed over the entrance level there was a potential that the height would
exceed 26 feet He noted that this was not a suggested alternative by the applicants,
but merely part of staffs analysis.
Craig Quinn (applicant) 5743 Sunmist Drive stated that the reason for the addition was
to extend the square footage of the house, as they had recently added a child to their
family He explained that he had taken a great deal of effort to minimize any impairment
He noted that he had recently removed a large tree on the east side of the property.
Commissioner Cartwright asked what sort of things were done to minimize view
impairment.
Mr Quinn explained that rather than increase the height of the bedroom ceiling area,
they opted to keep the roofline the same as the existing roofline. He attempted to keep
the proposal in compliance with the other homes in the area
Commissioner Cartwright clarified that he understood that the view impairment he was
speaking of was general neighborhood view impairment, not view impairment to the
east of his property.
Mr. Quinn stated that was correct
Commissioner Paulson asked if the silhouette of the project, closest to the street
frontage, represented the point where the eave overhang would be or where the wall
would be.
Robert Treman (architect) 2100 N Sepulveda Blvd Manhattan Beach, stated that was
where the wall would be. There would be an overhang of approximately 18 inches
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 12
beyond that. He stated that they were attempting to match the existing roof and
building
Commissioner Mueller asked if they had considered any alternatives to the current
design in an attempt to minimize view impairment
Mr. Treman stated that it was never a consideration to do that when he was hired. He
stated that the objectives were to bring the mass over the garage to take advantage of
the views.
Charles Holzer 5733 Sunmist Drive stated that the room that the view was being
considered from was not a bedroom but a den. He noted that recently his health had
declined and he could no longer go out. Therefore, he spends much more time in his
den enjoying the view it provides He felt there were alternative designs that could be
explored that would minimize his view impairment and would be more compatible with
the neighborhood. Mr. Holzer pointed out that the architect had stated that this design
was being utilized to capture a view, which he felt would be at his expense He also
pointed out that this was the only room in his home that provided this view
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Mr. Holzer if he had added on to his house any time
in the past
Mr. Holzer responded that he had not, that it originally had a second story over the
garage
Chairman Lyon asked, in consideration of a viewing area, whether it mattered if a
bedroom were used as a den rather than as a bedroom
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the language In the code specifies whether the
viewing area is in a portion of the house that would require a height variation if that
house were to be built under today's code The exception being if it is a gathering
space He felt the Planning Commission had discretion to determine if a den meets the
definition of a primary use area. He noted that staff did not feel this was a primary use
area since there was a living room and family room on the lower level, which was where
the primary viewing area would be. In this situation staff felt that there is no protected
viewing area on the second level because of the location of the living room.
Chairman Lyon felt that the most important and best view from this house was from the
den upstairs:
Commissioner Long asked where the exact language was located which stated that if
bedrooms are located on a second floor they could not be used as a primary viewing
area
Director/Secretary Rojas directed Commissioner Long to the Height Variation guidelines
and findings
Planning Commission Minutes
November 14, 2000
Page 13
Bob Galaway 2312 243rd Street, Lomita, stated that he has known the Holzers for over
17 years and in that entire time the room in question has always been used as a den
and never as a bedroom He added that the room was chosen to be used as a den
because of the view from the room He felt the applicant should consider alternative
plans for the addition, and even a 28 foot ridge height, in a different location, would not
impair the view of houses behind or to the north of the applicant.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing
Commissioner Mueller felt that there could be an alternative plan but did not think one
had ever been considered or discussed He understood that the view from the den was
not protected He was concerned with the percentage of coverage over the garage and
asked staff to explain
Associate Planner Mihranian answered that the addition was covering 100 percent of
the existing garage footprint, and to create some sort of articulation between the two
levels, the applicants are expanding the lower level garage by 94 square feet. He
explained that there was nothing in the code prohibiting 100 percent coverage of the
garage, only that if it exceeds 60 percent coverage of the garage, the project must come
before the Planning Commission for review
Commissioner Long stated that if he were able to make a decision based solely on what
was right, he would be inclined to vote against the project. He noted that the architect
had stated that nothing was really explored to consider alternate ways to lessen the
view impact on the neighbor However, in reviewing the findings that the Planning
Commission is required to make, Commissioner Long did not think any of the findings
appeared to be an issue except for findings 4, 5, and 6 He agreed with staff's analysis
regarding finding no 5, which was that there was no significant cumulative view
impairment. In analyzing finding no 6, he did not feel the bedrooms under the existing
guidelines qualified as a viewing area He did not think it was reasonable to interpret
the code to allow someone to change the viewing area by modifying the bedroom into a
den Therefore, he felt findings 5 and 6 could be made He felt that the analysis
regarding finding no 4 was fundamentally flawed He explained that staff's method of
evaluating finding no 4 effectively collapsed that requirement of the ordinance into
finding no 6 such that the two were treated as one An interpretation of an ordinance
the renders part of its language superfluous is disfavored He felt references to
protected views implied it was a defined term in the code He stated that protected
views are not a defined term in the code Mr Long stated that finding no 4 does not
say that the view impairment is from a protected view, significant view, or from viewing
areas Accordingly, he felt one could consider views in an abstract sense in finding no
4 He concluded by saying he had not yet made up his mind on whether finding no 4
could be made
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that the percentage of coverage over the garage
troubled him However, there was a strong neighborhood presence of similar structures
built entirely over the garage He was sympathetic to the Holzers regarding the loss of
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November 14, 2000
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view, but did not feel this was a protected view He encouraged the applicant to
consider some type of compromise with the Holzers
Commissioner Cartwright also sympathized with the Holzers However, he explained
that the Planning Commission was bound by the code. Setting aside the view issue, he
felt the proposal was compatible and consistent with the neighborhood. He did not think
there was a privacy issue but felt there was definitely a view impact. However, he did
not think the view was a protected view
Commissioner Paulson stated that he too very much sympathized with the Holzers
Unfortunately, based on the interpretation of the code, he could not find a basis to
disagree with staff's recommendations.
Chairman Lyon re -opened the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Clark asked Mr. Quinn if he understood how his project would impact his
neighbor and what it would mean to him to lose his view He asked Mr. Quinn if he had
considered any alternate approaches to his proposed addition
Mr. Quinn stated that he had considered alternatives. He felt he was only partially
impacting Mr. Holzer's view and that there was still a partial view remaining from the
den. He stated that the alternatives he had explored did not make sense in relationship
to the existing layout of the home. He again noted that he had removed a tree on his
property that opened up a new view for the Holzers.
Sandra Holzer (applicant) 5733 Sunmist Drive explained that the most important view
from the den was the view of the sunset This view was not available from anywhere
else on the property. She stated that the entire sunset view would be lost with this
addition. She stated that since her husband's health has declined he spends much of
his time in his den. She stated that the tree that was removed from Mr Quinn's
property was never high enough to block views from her property.
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Long asked that if one assumes that finding no. 4 does not apply only to
protected views, but instead is assumed to apply to view as defined in the code, does
staff still think that finding no 4 can be made
Director/Secretary Rojas answered no and stated that staff made finding no 4 with the
interpretation that view means from a protected viewing area
Commissioner Long asked if staff had enough facts that they could conclude that the
only logical way to add on the square footage desired by the applicant was to use the
proposed design.
Associate Planner Mihranian answered that staff did not.
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November 14, 2000
Page 15
Vice Chairman Clark suggested recommending the applicant look at alternative designs
for the proposed remodel that further minimizes impacts to his neighbor. He stated that
this direction had been given many times by the Planning Commission and felt there
was a credible, reasonable basis to request it with this project.
Chairman Lyon asked staff if the silhouette at the property represents the outline of the
structure to be constructed
Associate Planner Mihranian answered that it does represent the structure, but does not
represent the roof eaves, which may extend out another 18 inches
Chairman Lyon noted that the most prominent view from the den was that of Catalina
Island, which would not be blocked. He noted that there were times of the year when
the sunset would be obscured, and there are limited days when it is clear enough to see
the sunset Therefore, he could see where there would be some view obstruction, but
he did not think it was significant. However he sympathized with the Holzers. He stated
that historically the Planning Commission and staff have interpreted finding no. 4 as
reasonably minimizing impairment of a protected view. He felt he was willing to approve
the request, but was very sympathetic to the neighbors.
Commissioner Paulson asked Commissioner Long if he would have the same feelings if
trees were planted that blocked a view.
Commissioner Long responded that the trees would have to significantly impair a view.
Significant impairment would be determined from a viewing area and the only remedy
would be to cut the trees to a height of 16 feet However, in this situation he was having
trouble making finding no 4 because he does not know if any alternatives have been
looked at He could not insert the word "protected" before view even though it may
have been the tradition of staff and the Planning Commission to do so in the past He
felt that by doing so finding no. 4 will have been made whenever finding no. 6 is made.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to approve the staff recommendations as
presented, seconded by Chairman Lyon. The motion failed, (2-5) with
Commissioners Long, Mueller, Paulson, Vannorsdall, and Vice Chairman Clark
dissenting.
Vice Chairman Clark moved to continue the item with direction to the applicant to
work with staff and bring back to the Planning Commission some alternative
approaches to the proposed remodel that would minimize the view impacts to the
neighbor, seconded by Commissioner Mueller.
Chairman Lyon asked if the motion should be more specific in terms of the nature of the
plans.
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November 14, 2000
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Commissioner Long felt the plans presented should be sufficient to enable the Planning
Commission to make finding no. 4.
Vice Chairman Clark noted that there is no inherent right to a height variation and in
order to receive an approval on a height variation request the Planning Commission
must make the findings, inclusive of finding no.4, as directed by the Development Code.
He felt there were at least two Commissioners who could not currently make finding no.
4.
Commissioner Long stated that either the evidence presented the next time the
Planning Commission hears this item will allow him to make finding no 4 or it won't His
vote will be based upon the presentation at that time
Commissioner Cartwright stated that the applicant had indicated that he had
conceptually considered alternatives but had rejected them because of the existing
layout He felt the applicant had ended up with a design that met his needs and did not
think the Planning Commission should direct him to spend more time and money to
return with alternative designs that he may not be interested in He felt the Planning
Commission should ask him now if he was interested in doing that before voting on the
motion
Chairman Lyon re -opened the public hearing.
Mr. Quinn stated that there had been a great deal of expense involved in having the
current plans designed and presented to the Planning Commission He felt it would be
more difficult and costly to redesign the project, however he would be willing to put
together an alternative plan He asked what he needed to come back with and at what
expense
Commissioner Long answered that the Planning Commission was not telling him what
alternative to choose, but to explore alternatives. Further, after exploring the
alternatives, if he felt that the first alternative was his choice he should be able to
document the reasons for this.
Commissioner Paulson added that there has been no implication from any of the
Planning Commissioners to spend a great deal of money to develop a new set of plans
for the alternatives.
Chairman Lyon noted that in the staff report there was an analysis of an alternate plan.
He asked the Commission if something similar to this would satisfy them in considering
further alternatives.
Commissioner Long did not feel there was a need to pre -judge He felt the applicant
could submit anything to the Commission that he feels would help the Commission
make finding no. 4.
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November 14, 2000
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Vice Chairman Clark amended his motion to continue the item and direct the
applicant to meet with staff to review possible alternative approaches to the
addition. Further, the Planning Commission would request that the applicant
discuss with the neighbor his concerns in considering the design, seconded by
Commissioner Paulson.
Director/Secretary Rojas added that staff realized that there are options to moving the
second story so there may not be a view impairment. However, staff also recognizes
there may be constraints within the maximum 26 -foot height limit which would require a
Variance He felt that staff was prepared to work with the applicant to discuss
alternatives
Chairman Lyon asked Mr Quinn if he understood what was being asked of him
Mr Quinn responded that he understood
Chairman Lyon closed the public hearing
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that without a date certain for the continuance, the
project would have to be re -noticed He stated that the Planning Commission could
continue the project to a date uncertain, or choose a date now to continue the hearing
Mr Quinn requested a continuance to the first meeting in January
Vice Chairman amended his motion to continue the item to the meeting of
January 9, 2001, seconded by Commissioner Paulson. The motion passed, (6-1)
with Commissioner Cartwright dissenting.
ADJOURNMENT
Vice Chairman Clark moved to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall.
The meeting was adjourned at 11:30 p.m.
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November 14, 2000
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