PC MINS 200003147
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 14, 2000
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
3/29/00
rl--
The meeting was called to order at 7 00 p m by Chairman Cartwright at the
Hesse Park Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
Recording Secretary Peterson led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Albeno, Paris, Slayden, Vannorsdall, Vice
Chairman Lyon, Chairman Cartwright
Absent Commissioner Clark was excused
Also present were Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement Rojas,
Associate Planner Mihranian, and Recording Secretary Peterson.
UNNOMOKS
. Ji- M' 4 k,
Commissioner Alberio moved to approve the agenda as presented,
seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall. There being no objection, it was
so ordered by the Chairman.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director/Secretary Rojas reported that at the last City Council meeting the City
Council approved the acquisition of property at Crenshaw Blvd and Crest Road
for a senior affordable housing project
Chairman Cartwright thanked Director/Secretary Rojas and the City for providing
the opportunity to attend the Planning Conference in Monterey
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of February 22, 2000
Commissioner Paris questioned a statement on Page 18 of the minutes and
requested the Recording Secretary check the tape for the accuracy of the
statement.
Commissioner Slayden noted a typographical error on Page 1 of the minutes
Chairman Cartwright added language to the roll call section of Page 1.
Commissioner Alberio moved to approve the minutes as amended,
seconded by Commissioner Paris. Approved, (5-0-1) with Commissioner
Vannorsdall abstaining since he was absent from that meeting.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Site Plan Review No. 8816: Mohamad Chahine (applicant), 7460 Alida
Place.
Commissioner Alberio, moved to waive the reading of the staff report,
seconded by Commissioner Slayden. There being no objection, the staff
report was waived.
Commissioner Slayden moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Alberio. There being no objection, the public hearing was
opened.
There were no speakers for this item.
Commissioner Alberio moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden. There being no objection, the public hearing was
closed.
Chairman Cartwright asked if staff had received any comments from the
neighbors regarding the project.
Director/Secretary Rojas replied that staff had received no comments from
neighbors.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if there were going to be lights on the pilasters,
as he was concerned that lights could be distracting to drivers He suggested
putting a limit on the size of the light wattage, possible 25 wafts.
Director/Secretary Rojas suggested adding a condition stating that after the lights
were installed they shall be reviewed by the Director to verify that there is no
glare impact to vehicles on the roadway.
The Commission agreed with the two amendments
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 2
Commissioner Slayden moved to adopt P.C. Resolution No. 2000-09,
thereby approving Site Plan Review No. 8816 as amended, seconded by
Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (6-0).
3. Code Amendment No. 47 — Lead -In or directional signs in the public
right-of-way: City of Rancho Palos Verdes.
Associate Planner Mihranian began the staff report by explaining that this
request was made by the Palos Verdes Peninsula Association of Realtors to
amend the sign section of the Development Code pertaining to the color
requirements for signs in the public right-of-way. He explained that according to
the Realtors Association's representative, Rancho Palos Verdes is the only city
on the peninsula and the entire South Bay that maintains the brown and gold
color requirement. As part of the review process, staff contacted the different
jurisdictions on the peninsula and found that the City of Rolling Hills, Rolling Hills
Estates and Palos Verdes Estates do not allow signs in the public right-of-way. In
regards to real estate signs, Rolling Hills Estates and Palos Verdes Estates do
not have a color requirement for the signs placed on the private property,
whereas Rolling Hills does not permit such signs. Further, the City Attorney
determined that although the proposal before the Commission was for real estate
signs, any amendment to this section of the Development Code would apply to
all permitted signs in the public right-of-way, including garage sale and special
event signs. He presented three options in the staff report of: 1) eliminate the
code color requirement altogether, 2) eliminate the color requirement but modify
the code so that only one sign is allowed within the intersection; or 3) not change
the code at all. Mr. Mihranian explained that the direction given by the Planning
Commission would then be forwarded to the City Council in the form of a draft
ordinance (if changes were proposed) for consideration
Vice Chairman Lyon asked if the public right-of-way included the sidewalk
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that it varied, but in most cases the public
right-of-way did include the sidewalk.
Commissioner Paris felt it would be appropriate to add language about
placement of signs in the public right-of-way so they do not obstruct the walkway.
Chairman Cartwright stated that one of the compelling arguments in favor of the
amendment made before the City Council was that Rancho Palos Verdes was
the only City on the peninsula that requires color uniformity on the signs.
However, in listening to Mr. Mihranlan's staff report it is true that this is the only
city requiring uniformity in sign color, since this is also the only City on the
peninsula that allows signs in the public right-of-way without a permit. He did not
think this came out at the City Council meeting.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 3
Associate Planner Mihranian stated that staff does have a concern with the
proposal to eliminate the color requirement Although other jurisdictions do not
allow the signs, they are smaller cities and the impacts would be different if they
were allowed in our city, which is the largest on the peninsula
Commissioner Alberio moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden. There being no objection, the public hearing was
opened.
Eric Randall 6528 Madeline Cove Drive stated he was a member of the Palos
Verdes Peninsula Association of Realtors and was in favor of the proposal to
eliminate the color restrictions. He felt that it would be nice if realtors could have
one set of signs that they could use throughout the peninsula.
Commissioner Paris asked if he would object if the signs were restricted to
standard colors, rather than exceptionally bright or neon colors.
Mr Randall answered he would not have a problem with that at all
Commissioner Paris asked if he had a problem restricting the number of signs
placed in one location
Mr Randall answered that he did not think three signs were too many for one
area and having the signs was also to the homeowner's benefit.
Robert Wardell 605 Chiswick Road Palos Verdes Estates stated he was on the
board of the Palos Verdes Peninsula Association of Realtors and Chairman of
the Sign Ordinance Committee He stated that the only section of the Sign
Ordinance that they were requesting be changed was Section 17 76 050 where it
stated that the color combination of signs be brown and gold. They were asking
that the language be eliminated but all other restrictions remain the same.
Rancho Palos Verdes is the only City with any color restriction from EI Segundo
to San Pedro He added that the Palos Verdes Peninsula Association of
Realtors was self -policing in regards to signs on the Peninsula. He stated that
the Association would work to make sure the sign proliferation problem was
eliminated and there would be no more than 3 directional signs on one corner
and there could not be two signs in one direction Mr Wardell added that in the
last two years he believed there has not been one complaint from a citizen of the
city regarding any problems with real estates signs or sign violations He wanted
to accomplish some standardization on the peninsula and throughout the South
Bay so that at the very least realtors would not have to special order brown and
gold signs for use in Rancho Palos Verdes.
Commissioner Paris asked if he had any objection to restricting the colors of
signs to standard colors rather than bright colors or neon colors and if he
objected to adding language restricting signs in the walkway
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 4
Mr. Wardell answered that he did object to the restriction because there are no
color restrictions in any other city, however he would not object if the language
specifically said no neon colors. He did not object to language restricting signs in
walkways.
Chairman Cartwright asked how the Association would feel if the color restriction
were removed but sign placement restricted to private property or public property
by special permit.
Mr Wardell did not know how to answer the question but felt that people would
probably still like to have the flexibility to use the public right-of-way without a
permit if it is available to them, as long as it is reasonable. They would also like
the flexibility to have three directional signs on a corner as long as they don't all
point in the same direction.
Chairman Cartwright asked if Palos Verdes Estates had any restrictions on the
number of signs that could be on a piece of property.
Mr. Wardell responded that in Palos Verdes Estates and Rolling Hills Estates
they are allowed one For Sale sign and one directional sign on an individual
property
Associate Planner Mihranian pointed out that any change in the sign ordinance
would not be limited to real estates signs, but would also apply to all similar
directional signs placed legally in the public right-of-way.
Commissioner Slayden moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Alberio. There being no objection the public hearing was
closed.
Commissioner Paris asked staff about their position on the number of contractors
and repair signs placed on private property
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that there is a separate section of the code
which allows for contractors to place a sign on private property during
construction. However, there have been situations where there are numerous
signs placed from numerous contractors. When those situations are called to
staff's attention through a complaint, staff will go to the property and tell the
contractor to remove the signs.
Vice Chairman Lyon stated that the Commission had been talking about two
different types of property (public and private) and confusing the restrictions on
one with the desire to change restrictions on the other. There are currently no
restrictions in any city on the peninsula, including Rancho Palos Verdes, on the
color of signs on private property. However, there are no cities on the peninsula
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 5
0 0
that grant permission for signs to be placed in the public -right-of-way without
some type permit, except for Rancho Palos Verdes He did not feel the staff
report mentioned that the other cities did not allow signs in the public right-of-
way He did not see any reason to not have standardization of colors in the
public right-of-way.
Associate Planner Mihranian responded that the information from the other cities
on what was allowed in the public right-of-way was received after the staff reports
had been distributed and that was why he included the new information in his
verbal staff report.
Vice Chairman Lyon added that he felt it was inappropriate to use the argument
that there were no color restrictions for signs placed on private property in other
cities to justify the elimination of a color requirement for signs placed in the public
right-of-way in this city He felt a public right-of-way should look neat and orderly.
Commissioner Slayden felt that the Commission was reading too much into the
request, which was simply to eliminate the color restrictions on signs.
Commissioner Vannorsdall did not have an objection to lifting the color restriction
on signs, however he felt the Commission should focus on this one request and
not start adding other conditions to the request, such as the number of directional
signs allowed.
Commissioner Paris pointed out to the Commission that changing this ordinance
affects garage sale signs and other signs, which caused him concern
Commissioner Albeno agreed that the request was only to change the restriction
placed on sign colors and the Commission should not deviate from that request.
Vice Chairman Lyon moved to deny the request to change the color
restriction in the code regarding signs and retain the code as currently
written, seconded by Chairman Cartwright. The motion failed, (3-3) with
Commissioners Alberio, Slayden, and Vannorsdall dissenting.
Commissioner Alberio moved to remove the language regarding sign color
restrictions as requested by the applicant, seconded by Commissioner
Slayden. The motion failed, (3-3) with Commissioner Paris, Vice Chairman
Lyon, and Chairman Cartwright dissenting.
Chairman Cartwright re -opened the public hearing.
Mr Wardell felt that 80 to 90 percent of real estates signs in Palos Verdes
Estates are actually in the public right-of-way because of the extensive setbacks
in the city He explained that the city has agreed to allow signs placed within 5
feet of the curb or 5 feet from the edge of the street, regardless if it is in the
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 6
public right-of-way or not. The setback is increased to 10 or 15 feet on Palos
Verdes Drive North and Palos Verdes Drive West. Further, he did not think that
the City of Rancho Palos Verdes has been able to enforce the brown and gold
color requirement on garage sale and various other signs. If the City decides to
maintain the brown and gold requirement, he requested that this requirement be
enforced for everyone.
Chairman Cartwright acknowledged Mr. Wardell's comments but explained that
he did not have a good feel from the staff report nor the discussions at the
meeting, that the Planning Commission really knows what it is they are opening
themselves up to in terms of changing the sign colors
Director/Secretary Rous explained that the Code Enforcement Officer does
patrol the City on the weekends for illegal signs and does remove any signs that
are not brown and gold in color. Currently the City is removing 40 to 50 illegal
signs per month from the right-of-way
Commissioner Paris felt that if the color signs were changed it would take away
the right of the City to remove signs in violation of the Code, particularly the
garage sale signs.
Chairman Cartwright closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Alberio moved to continue the item to the meeting of March
28, 2000 to allow the staff to address the concerns of the Planning
Commission, seconded by Commissioner Paris. The motion passed, (5-1)
with Commissioner Slayden dissenting.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8 30 p.m. the Commission took a short recess until 8 40 p m. at which time
they reconvened.
G�I= 31� C+�`.I�:j:lP►I�I+�If*T•�. ti [ �I�l��]�
3. Code Amendment No. 48 — Prohibiting violators of the Municipal
Code from filing or processing a View Restoration, View
Preservation, or City Tree Permit Application: City of Rancho Palos
Verdes.
Associate Planner Mihranian presented the staff report He explained that the
Code Amendment was to modify Section 17.86.050 of the Development Code.
As written, the section states that any violator of the Municipal Code cannot apply
for a development application, but does not prohibit them from applying for any
other type of application, such as view restoration applications. To correct this
loophole with the enforcement section and Development Code, staff
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 7
recommended that the Commission approve the code amendment to include all
development applications as well as other special applications If approved, any
violator of the municipal code cannot proceed with any application without
correcting the violation
Chairman Cartwright asked if this code amendment was the result of an actual
problem
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that it was the result of an actual incident
and the City Attorney had suggested the code amendment to close the loophole
Vice Chairman Lyon suggested combining the language in the new section into
one paragraph rather than having it in two paragraphs
Director/Secretary Rojas agreed but since the City Attorney had written the
actual language he would have to check with her first.
Commissioner Alberio moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden There being no objection, the public hearing was
opened.
Mark Abrams 44 Oceanaire Drive felt this proposal opens the door to massive
abuses by the staff and that history has demonstrated that staff will do that. He
explained that last year he had asked for approval of an antenna tower He was
denied building permits for other construction on his house because of the
allegation that he had illegal commercial radio transmitters, which he felt had not
been established at that point. He explained that four months later the City had
still not inspected his property to establish if he did indeed have the commercial
radio transmitters and he still could not pull his building permits He stated that it
took another 2 Y2 months after that before he was allowed to pull his building
permits He felt this was an abuse of power beyond what he considered any
reasonable measure He felt that the government has run rampant in enacting
ordinances to further its own purpose and not that of the community and he was
very much not in favor of this proposed ordinance
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked specifically in what respect this change was
abusive to the citizens
Mr Abrams replied that all that was needed was a staff member to come up with
the idea, either from another citizen or on his own, that there is some type of
violation in process and then freeze your ability to obtain building permits or
begin a view restoration process, without being under any obligation to prove the
allegations Further, the resolution to the problem should be done in an
expeditious manner He stated that if there were some type of limits where the
city is required to prove its allegations within a reasonable time period he could
possibly see some rationale behind the proposal
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 8
Commissioner Alberio moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden. There being no objection, the public hearing was
closed.
Chairman Cartwright asked staff to respond to the idea of putting a time limit on
the city to certify the violation.
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that the intent of this proposal was to get
homeowners to comply with code violations prior to processing any other
applications. This would only be enacted in the case of a known violation.
Vice Chairman Lyon suggested inserting language into the proposal stating that
the violation would have to be verified within 60 days of the filing date of the
application.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that would work, however he stated that typically
any violations on the property are known well before any application is submitted.
He said in some rare instances an application is submitted and then it is
discovered there is a violation on the property. In that situation the application
would continue to be processed and a condition added to the application stating
the violation must be removed or taken care of.
Director/Secretary Rojas explained to the Commission the process involved in
verifying a code violation and the process to obtain compliance once a code
violation has been verified He acknowledged that the current process works
smoothly but it does get a little complicated when an application has been taken
in and when reviewing the application, code violations are discovered.
Vice Chairman Lyon asked if a time restriction for verification of a violation were
to be included, would 60 or 90 days be more appropriate.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that 60 days would be more appropriate
since in most applications a decision must be made within 60 days of the
application being deemed complete. If it were from submittal, 90 days would be
more consistent with the process.
A discussion followed among the Commissioners as to the best way to address
the situation concerning code violations and the proposed time limit.
Vice Chairman Lyon moved to approve the language as presented by the
staff with the exception that paragraphs one and two may be combined in
an effective manner to streamline the language, with the approval of the
City Attorney, seconded by Commissioner Paris. Approved, (5-1) with
Commissioner Alberio dissenting.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 9
Chairman Cartwright directed staff to return this item to the next Planning
Commission meeting for their review of any changes to the language the City
Attorney may have made
NEW BUSINESS
5. Discussion of standards for encroachments of fences, walls
pilasters, and similar structures within the public right-of-way.
Director/Secretary Rojas presented a brief staff report explaining City Council
Policy No 31, which deals with encroachments in the right-of-way. He explained
that what precipitated this was staff and dealings with code enforcement as
almost every encroachment permit is for after -the -fact work Staff has found that
in trying to obtain compliance it has been difficult because of the current process,
which includes going to the Planning Commission for every permit, making the
necessary findings, which are very difficult to make for approval and obtaining
the necessary insurance requirements This proposal is an amendment to the
current policy, which splits the review into Director level review and Planning
Commission review, depending on specific review criteria He reviewed the
proposed findings and explained that the noticing and findings would be the
same for both reviews. Mr. Rajas asked the Commission to review the proposal
and provide staff with any changes. The Commission's recommendations will
then be presented to City Council.
Commissioner Paris questioned the size of the structure allowed for Director's
approval. He felt that a pilaster 2' x 2', 6' tall, with an 18" lighting fixture on top
was quite a large structure in the public right-of-way.
Commissioner Vannorsdall agreed with Commissioner Paris that this was a very
tall structure He also asked if these would also be approved by Public Works
prior to being reviewed by either the Director or the Planning Commission.
Director/Secretary Rojas responded that the objective of the streamlining was to
encourage residents to apply for an encroachment permit and staff felt there
would be an incentive if most applications would be handled by the Director and
not be heard by the Planning Commission. If the Commissioners felt that this
size structure was too large to be approved at the Director level this would be the
time to make the adjustments He also explained that Public Works would
always review the project and have a recommendation, whether the project was
to be reviewed by the Director or the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Paris asked, once this process was in place, if there would be a
penalty for violators who build in the public right-of-way without the
encroachment permit.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 10
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that most of the applications received will be
for after -the -fact construction and this process was designed to encourage these
residents to obtain a permit for the structure.
Commissioner Slayden moved to open the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Alberio. There being no objection the public hearing was
opened.
Edward Murphy 6304 Via Ciega discussed micro -management and macro -
management and felt that the more micro -management there is in an
organization, the less viable and effective it becomes. He discussed his
experiences with staff which have been very positive and how well the
responsibilities seem to have been delegated to staff and therefore more of the
responsibilities of approving encroachment permits should be delegated to the
staff
Mark Abrams 44 Oceanaire Drive stated that in general he is not in favor of what
staff wants although he sees some of the merit that staff has brought forward on
this particular issue. He stated that last year he had come before the Planning
Commission for an encroachment permit and had been forced to go through a
long and expensive process to legalize his structure in the right-of-way. He felt
that most people do not get encroachment permits because of the difficulty in
complying However, he did have several problems with staffs proposal in that
he felt that staff was trying to make it too easy for the Director to be the one to
give the approvals He felt that 10 feet was too far of an encroachment for the
Director to approve. Also, he asked if this were to be approved, would the
insurance requirement that is in place that he is currently paying also be waived.
He did not think he should have to continue to carry a $1 million insurance policy
if nobody else has to. He asked if this was on an individual basis or cumulative
in that if there are six pilasters that are each 2' by 2', does this fall into this
category or is it 2' by 2' by 2' added up
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that each pilaster would be considered
individually.
Commissioner Cartwright asked staff about the potential for retroactive review on
the insurance requirement.
Director/Secretary Rojas answered that his initial response would be that anyone
currently having an encroachment permit under the current guidelines would
have to submit for a revision to their permit to remove the requirement However,
if these new guidelines were approved he felt that the requirement would be
removed, however he would have to first check with the City Attorney.
Chairman Cartwright stated that he would like to see approximately 80 percent of
the applications approved by staff and only 20 percent come to the Planning
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 11
Commission. He asked staff what type of percentages of encroachment permit
applications would come before the Planning Commission under these new
proposed guidelines.
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that with the new criteria, the Director could approve
approximately 90 percent of the applications. Adjusting the 10 -foot
encroachment distance or the 72 -inch height limit would increase the number of
applications sent to the Planning Commission.
Don Ferrara 6301 Via Ciega was concerned with structures placed in the public
right-of-way, such as the one placed in the right-of-way by his neighbor. He was
concerned that many structures in the right-of-way were dangerous and
unsightly. He was also concerned about the taking of public property for private
use His main objection was to high pilasters in the public right-of-way, again like
the one placed by his neighbor.
Mr Murphy approached the podium again and stated that he felt Mr. Ferrara's
presentation was out of order in that there is an encroachment permit application
pending and Mr. Ferrara should not discuss any details of that case before the
Commission.
Commissioner Slayden moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Paris. There being no objection, the public hearing was
closed.
Vice Chairman Lyon suggested changing the dimensions in the Director level
review to an encroachment located no more than 6 feet within the public right-of-
way, changing the wording to say the dimension for "each" pilaster rather than "a"
pilaster, and changing the overall height restriction down to 60 inches.
Commissioner Paris felt that a 6 -foot high maximum structure including the light
fixture was a good height. He suggested a 3 square foot structure, in the hopes
of encouraging people to build less bulky pilasters.
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that changing the size of the structure to 3
square feet would probably send half of the applications to the Planning
Commission for approval
Commissioner Vannorsdall discussed the lighting on pilasters in the right-of-way
and his concern over the way the lighting may affect passing traffic, and
suggested a 25 -watt limitation.
Chairman Cartwright re -opened the public hearing.
Mark Abrams stated that a Minor Exception Permit was required for anything in
the frontyard setback taller than 42 inches Therefore, he felt that the Director's
decisions should be for structures less than 42 inches or less in height.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 12
Chairman Cartwright closed the public hearing
Director/Secretary Rojas stated that Minor Exception Permits are dealt with at
staff level
Commissioner Paris suggested a maximum 5 -foot high pilaster and no more than
6 feet in total height including the lights
Vice Chairman Lyon moved to approve the proposed amendment to City
Council Policy No. 31 as stated with the following exceptions: 1) change
the 10 -foot distance into the public right-of-way trigger to 6 -feet; 2) state
that the 4 square foot base limitation shall apply to each pilaster; 3) change
the height limitation so as not to exceed 72 -inches in total height; 4) the
pilaster itself, without the decorative feature, not exceed 60 -inches in total
height; 5) add language to the required findings that lighting not affect
vehicular traffic; and, 6) add an additional finding that the encroachment
structure does not significantly impair a view from a surrounding property.
This motion was seconded by Commissioner Slayden. Approved (6-0).
ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Alberio moved to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner
Slayden. The meeting was adjourned at 10:26 p.m. to March 28, 2000.
\\Mastadon\Planning\PC\Minutes\2000120000314 doc
Planning Commission Minutes
March 14, 2000
Page 13