PC MINS 19990223T 1,
APPROVED 03/09/99
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 23, 1999
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 7 00 P M. by Chairman Cartwright at the
Hesse Park Community Building, 29310 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Slayden led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Albeno, Clark, Paas, Slayden, Vannorsdall, Vice
Chairman Lyon, and Chairman Cartwright
Absent None
Also present were Director/Secretary Rous, Associate Planner Fox, Assistant
Planner Schonborn, and Recording Secretary Peterson
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Slayden moved to approve the agenda as presented,
seconded by Commissioner Paris. It was so ordered by Chairman
Cartwright, (7-0).
LONJ,I11itIIi•Ilq-.% dC+�
Council PolicyItems
ems
Director/Secretary Rous updated the Commission on the City Council meeting of
February 16, 1999 He discussed the revision to the Conditional Use Permit for
Ocean Trails to allow for adjustment in the fill amount in the eastern tract He
also explained the City Council had approved, in concept, an affordable housing
impact fee for non-residential developments
Commissioner Clark commented that he had read the City Council minutes of
January 19, 1999 and specifically the item relating to the City taking a position on
the aircraft noise He felt that in his neighborhood the problem had not become
c
any better He felt this was a mayor quality of life issue and asked
Director/Secretary Rous to forward that information to the City Council.
Commissioner Albeno stated he would like to see the City take a stand on the
airport expansion since it would have an affect in this City
Staff
Director/Secretary Rous informed the Commission of a complimentary seminar
offered by Richards, Watson, and Gershon regarding the Brown Act.
Commission
Commissioner Slayden reported that he had breakfast with Mike Mohler, from
Destination Resorts, and Sonya Hayes
CONSENT CALENDAR
Chairman Cartwright pointed out on page 4, paragraph 9, the sentence "With no
objections, it was so ordered by Chairman Cartwright' be taken out as it was
repetitive
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to approve the Minutes of February 9,
1999 as amended. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Slayden
and passed, (5-0-2) with Commissioners Clark and Vannorsdall abstaining
since they were not at that meeting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Height Variation No. 866 and Gradinq Permit No. 2053: 30052
Avenida Classica. Applicant: Raju Chhabria.
Assistant Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, stating the project had
been continued from the Planning Commission meeting of November 10, 1998
At that time the Commission had instructed the applicant to work with staff to
reduce the size of the structure and increase the north side setback He
explained that the new structure height had increased by six inches but
maintained an overall height of 26 feet, the open space on the property had
increased by almost 9 percent, the overall structure size has been reduced by
almost 1,000 square feet, and the amount of grading has also been reduced He
commented that staff felt the applicant had complied with recommendations
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23,1999
Page 2
•
•
made by the Planning Commission and staff was therefore recommending
approval of the project
Commissioner Paris questioned whether there was any reduction in the square
footage of the second floor
Assistant Planner Schonborn answered that the largest reduction was on the
ground floor of the residence.
Commissioner Vannorsdall commented that at the Planning Commission meeting
of November 10, 1998, the Commission had requested the applicant reduce the
size of the residence to at least 5,500 square feet In tonight's staff report, the
structure size is stated at 6,254 square feet. He questioned why staff was
recommending approval, even though the proposed structure is not in keeping
with the Planning Commission's direction.
Assistant Planner Schonborn replied that the actual living area was
approximately 5,500 square feet, and the additional square footage listed was for
the 640 square foot three -car garage.
Commissioner Vannorsdall disagreed He also felt that it wasn't just a case of a
large pad size. The residence being considered is on an upslope lot and will look
massive compared to the other houses near it. He stated that part of the General
Plan specifies neighborhood compatibility and he felt very strongly that this
proposal was not compatible with the neighborhood He did not understand why
Staff recommended that the Planning Commission approve the project when the
Commission had given specific direction on redesigning which he did not feel had
been followed
Chairman Cartwright stated that he recalled an issue with privacy and the
Commission had asked the applicant to consider moving the residence five feet
towards the south of the property He wondered if that move had created the
privacy issue at 30134 Avenida Celestial Drive.
Assistant Planner Schonborn answered that staff did not feel moving the
residence five feet towards the south would help the privacy issue, primarily
because the proposed second story windows on the north elevation were in an
area that overlooked the roof area of the residence to the north, rather than the
residence itself
Commissioner Albeno recalled at the previous meeting the Commission had
suggested turning the proposed swimming pool around so the structure could be
moved farther to the south so there would be more space between the new
residence and the existing neighbor's residence to the north
Chairman Cartwright opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 3
Mr. Louis Tomaro, (architect) 1001 6th Street, #100 San Pedro stated it was his
understanding from the direction of the Planning Commission at the November
hearing, to reduce the square footage of the proposed residence by 1,000 square
feet and address the privacy issues He stated that is what he had done He
stated that in regards to setbacks, the residence is proposed to be setback 10
feet on the northerly side, as recommended by the Commission The square
footage of the driveway in the front of the residence has been reduced, and they
had reduced the amount of grading in the rear of the lot by stepping the backyard
up and having the yard at a mid level in the rear He stated the owners of the
property have reviewed the new proposals with the neighbors He felt the
neighbors to the north were in favor of the project but would prefer that the
proposed structure be moved back an additional five feet (to the east) He stated
that the applicant would be willing to do this Further, he was aware of the issue
of privacy with the neighbors to the south In talking with staff, he had addressed
making the windows smaller or possibly making the windows opaque
Commissioner Paris asked for clarification regarding the lot coverage of 2,656
square feet for the pool and patio He wondered if that would be all hardscape
Mr Tomaro stated that all the hardscape area would be under the current
proposal
Commissioner Paris still had concern with the mass of the residence from the
front. He wondered why the pool couldn't be moved to the back, cutting back on
the grading, and making the second story a little smaller
Mr Tomaro answered that the view of this property was to the south Therefore,
he had designed the house to take advantage of the potential of the property He
did not feel putting the pool in the back would be a good idea, as the amount of
grading would have to be increased to build the yard area for the pool He also
felt that, while there may be room to put the pool in the back, the owners had a
right to use the property in a way they would like to use it. By putting the pool
where it is on the plans, the owners were trying to maximize the use of the pool
and it's connection to the rooms around it.
Commissioner Paris also questioned the mass of the house in the front of the
property and how this could be addressed
Mr Tomaro responded that in looking at the elevations it showed that the second
floor actually steps back from the front of the house He commented that he had
tried to do a series of stepping to minimize the facade height of the structure
Commissioner Alberio felt that moving the pool to the back of the house, which is
at a higher elevation, would increase the view from the pool area.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 4
Mr. Tomaro concluded by stating he had satisfied what he thought was the
Planning Commission's concerns from the last meeting, and had worked with the
neighbors and tried to satisfy their issues
Dean Pham 30040 Avenida Classica stated he had met with the owners and
architect of the proposed residence and felt he would be satisfied with the
proposal as long as the residence was moved an additional five feet to the east
of the property This would give him a little more view than the previous
proposal. He stated that the owner was agreeable to moving the residence five
feet further from the street.
Lily Tse 30134 Avenida Celestial stated that she previously did not have any
objections to the building of the residence, however after looking at the silhouette
that was erected, she realized that the building was quite close to her back yard
and looked directly into her pool area. She had reviewed the proposals for the
modified windows, and wanted some assurance that the windows would not look
directly into her pool area. She hoped that any balconies proposed did not look
directly into her swimming pool area She was concerned about the size of the
house, as most houses in the area are 4,000 to 4,500 square feet. Finally, she
stated her concern over the debris that may be left in the neighborhood while the
construction was being done, and wanted to know what the owner proposed to
do to keep the debris at a minimum
Commissioner Alberio asked Ms Tse if making the windows opaque would
satisfy her privacy concerns.
Ms Tse responded that would be fine
Commissioner Clark asked staff for clarification on staff s analysis regarding
these windows
Assistant Planner Schonborn responded that with a larger window there would
be a view into a portion of the pool area and the backyard He felt that with the
smaller windows you would not be able to see into the pool area. He commented
the architect would be willing to make these windows opaque in certain areas
Commissioner Clark commented that if the smaller windows alone relieved the
privacy issue, he did not see the need to also make them opaque
Commissioner Vannorsdall added that the windows were view windows from a
bedroom, and to maintain this view they could possible be located high enough
that there would be no opportunity to look down at the pool area
Chairman Cartwright stated that if staff believed the smaller windows did not
create a privacy issue he did not feel the windows should be raised or made
opaque
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 5
Chairman Cartwright asked Ms Tse if, when she purchased her property, she
was aware that the property behind her was a buildable lot and that anyone who
built there would most likely be able to see into her backyard
Ms Tse answered that when they purchased the property they were aware that
someone could build on the lot.
Chairman Cartwright asked Ms Tse if she had considered planting any foliage in
her backyard to help enhance their privacy
Ms Tse responded that they had recently planted five trees along the fence in
their backyard
Chairman Cartwright also asked Ms Tse if she was aware that the people who
owned that vacant lot were entitled to develop it and she would lose a little of her
privacy
Ms Tse agreed.
Assistant Planner Schonborn pointed out that the elevation drawing before the
Commission indicated the original window proposal He clarified where the
reduced windows would be located and pointed out that they would end up
higher than the original windows, approximately five feet above the finished floor
He felt these higher windows would allow the residents to look out, rather than
down
Commissioner Alberio moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Clark. There being no objection, the public hearing was
closed.
Commissioner Albeno was satisfied with the staff clarification of the window
height. He felt that an extra burden was being placed on the Tses by having to
plant trees in their yard to help protect their privacy He felt the hardscape
needed to be reduced and the pool needed to be put in the backyard or turned
around. He was pleased the applicant had moved the building to the south
Commissioner Clark was pleased the applicant and architect had worked with the
neighbors to reduce the size of the residence and address their concerns He
also noted that the open space of the proposed project was 78% of the lot. He
also felt that, regardless of the misunderstandings of the direction of the Planning
Commission at the previous hearing, he felt that the size of the proposed
residence was acceptable
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that in reading the minutes of the November
10, 1998 Planning Commission meeting, it distinctly directs the applicants to
reduce the size of the structure to 5,500 square feet or less He felt the proposed
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 6
structure was too large for the neighborhood and the General Plan specifically
addressed the need for neighborhood compatibility Being on the uphill side of
the street only magnified the problem
Commissioner Slayden commented that he did not have a problem with the
original plan brought before the Planning Commission, but felt the modifications
incorporated into the current proposal were acceptable He did not feel moving
the pool was necessary, as it was a key point to the architecture of the house
He felt that taking into account the size of the lot and the size of the houses in the
adjacent tract, that the proposed residence was not too large
Commissioner Paris stated he did not like the "U" shape design as it accentuates
the mass of the building He felt the mass of the structure was not needed, as
there was a tremendous amount of space utilized in large hallways and
stairways He did not like the amount of concrete and hardscape He also felt
the pool should be moved to the back of the property Finally, he stated he was
uncomfortable with the size of the house relative to the houses around it.
Vice Chairman Lyon asked staff to clarify if the five-foot shift of the building to the
east was reflected on the current plans
Assistant Planner Schonborn answered that he had not been aware of the
agreement between the applicant and Mr Pham regarding the relocation of the
building to the east. Therefore it was not currently reflected on the plans
Vice Chairman Lyon stated that if the additional 5 foot front setback was
agreeable to everyone, he was happy with it. Regarding the privacy issue, he felt
that any home built on this lot would have a very ready view of the neighbor's
backyard. He did not feel it was unreasonable to allow large windows in the
bedrooms, as the primary view was to the south He did not feel making
windows opaque in the direction of a primary view was acceptable He agreed
with Commissioner Vannorsdall that the minutes of November 10, 1998 did
reflect the structure was to be reduced to 5,500 square feet, and did not recall
any conversation agreeing to the reduction of the residence by only 1,000 square
feet. However, most of the proposed house would be built toward the rear of the
lot. In his opinion the proposed house does not look massive from the front of
the property He felt that the size of the house could be reduced, however he did
not think it was necessary Finally, he did not feel the location of the pool was
necessarily any business of the Planning Commission
Chairman Cartwright agreed with much of what Vice Chairman Lyon had said
He also acknowledged the architect and owner's work with the neighbors in
adjusting the setback to help relieve some of their concerns He did not find the
mass of the house to be objectionable and was happy to see the reduction in the
square footage He did not see an issue with neighborhood compatibility, as
there are other houses in the area larger than 5,500 square feet.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 7
Commissioner Slayden moved to accept the staff recommendations as
presented, thereby adopting PC Resolution No. 99-06 approving the project
subject to conditions of approval, seconded by Vice Chairman Lyon.
Commissioner Clark asked if the motion took into account the additional five foot
move of the residence to the east of the property
Commissioner Slayden amended his motion to include moving the
structure an additional five feet to the east of the property, seconded by
Vice Chairman Lyon.
Based on the moved front setback, Assistant Planner Schonborn recommended
amendment Condition No. 4 in Exhibit A to read, "the maximum height of the
structure shall not exceed 17 feet in height or a ridge elevation of 137 feet, as
measured from benchmark elevation of 120 feet, which is the highest point of
existing pre -construction grade to be covered by the structure The maximum
height of the structure shall not exceed 26 feet as measured from the point of the
lowest foundation at finished grade to the heighest ridgeline of the structure The
lowest finished grade is located at a benchmark elevation of 111 feet located at
the southwest corner of the structure at the garage The 120 foot elevation is
measured from the northeast corner of the residential structure The benchmark
elevation is based on a 102.17 feet at the northwest corner of the property at the
front property line Ridgeline certification is required "
Chairman Cartwright suggested that, if there were some minor modifications
needed because of mathematical error made tonight, that these modifications
could be made by staff without having to come back to the Planning Commission.
Assistant Planner Schonborn replied that pursuant to re -proposed conditions, the
Director of Planning, Building, and Code Enforcement would be authorized to
make minor modifications when needed.
Chairman Cartwright re -opened the public hearing.
Chairman Cartwright asked Mr. Tomaro if moving the residence five feet to the
east was agreeable to the owners
Mr Tomaro answered that that was acceptable
Commissioner Clark asked Mr Tomaro to explain once again why the swimming
pool was designed to be where it was, and not in the back of the property.
Mr. Tomaro responded that the backyard area was elevated from the rest of the
house He did not want to do a mayor amount of grading in the back to
accommodate the pool Also, located in the area shown, it is level with the family
area and would be a more useable and desirable area for the pool
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 8
Chairman Cartwright closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked about the existing trees along the sidewalk in
the front of the property He wondered if they would be removed for this house to
be built He felt the trees along the street enhanced the area and helped cut
down the massiveness of the residence He suggested conditioning the approval
in such a way that the trees would not be removed, with the exception of the tree
in front of the proposed driveway
Director/Secretary Rous commented that the Public Works Department was
responsible for maintaining City trees and they remove trees if the trees are
causing damage to the sidewalks, streets, or any other issue to public safety
Therefore, the Public Works Department may have to remove these trees at
some point, which would be in conflict with this condition Also, the City has a
City Tree Review Process, where trees blocking someone's view could be
removed That may also cause a conflict He suggested that if this condition of
approval were added, that these two exceptions be included
Commissioner Slayden commented that he was not in favor of changing his
motion to include this condition
Vice Chairman Lyon asked staff if they were aware of any necessity or desire by
the owner to remove the trees.
Assistant Planner Schonborn stated it was necessary to remove the tree in the
driveway area, but was not aware of their plans for the other trees.
Commissioner Slayden repeated his motion to accept Staff's
recommendation to adopt PC Resolution No. 99-06 approving Height
Variation No. 866 and Grading Permit No. 2053 with the amendment of
moving the structure five feet to the east subject to amended conditions of
approval. The motion passed, (4-3) with Commissioners Alberio, Paris, and
Vannorsdall dissenting.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8 30 P.M. the Commission took a recess until 8 40 P.M at which time the
meeting was reconvened
3. Tentative Parcel Map No. 25271 and Environmental Assessment No.
703: Palos Verdes Portuguese Bend Company, northwest corner of
Crenshaw Boulevard and Crestridge Road. (KF)
Chairman Cartwright began by asking staff why continuance was recommended
for this item
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23, 1999
Page 9
Associate Planner Fox answered that the Planning Commission had, at a past
meeting, given staff a list of questions regarding the application Mr Fox
commented that in the process of researching and answering these questions,
several additional issues arose Staff was still in the process of following up on
these issues Further, the applicant had recently submitted a revised map which
staff has not had the opportunity to review in time to present to the Commission
this evening
Commissioner Albeno did not feel there was any need to continue the item to
another meeting He felt that all the Commission was being asked to do was
approve a subdivision for conveyance purposes only and since he felt the
requirement of the Subdivision Map Act were met there should be no further
continuance
Chairman Cartwright felt that staff had concerns with the proposed map and the
consistency with the General Plan
Commissioner Slayden moved to continue the item to the Planning
Commission meeting of March 9, 1999, seconded by Chairman Cartwright.
The motion passed, (5.2) with Commissioners Alberio and Vannorsdall
dissenting.
Commissioner Cartwright opened the public hearing.
Mike Walker, Palos Verdes Landholding Company, stated he was available to
the Commission if they had any questions He also stated that he was not clear
what issues staff had.
Director/Secretary Rojas responded by stating that one of the issues had to do
with the map requirements in the city code and whether this map met those
requirements. The second issue dealt with the Subdivision Map Act and how a
map for conveyance purposes differs from a standard lot split. The third issue
staff was trying to resolve was the relationship to the General Plan Amendment
request by Colony Holdings
Chairman Cartwright closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Paris wondered if continuing the item to the meeting of March 9
would give the staff enough time to research their questions, and wondered if it
might be better to continue the item to the March 23 meeting
Director/Secretary Rojas felt that staff could deal with the issues that needed to
be addressed by the March 9 meeting
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23,1999
Page 10
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Director/Secretary Rous pointed out that the meeting of March 23, 1999 would
likely be cancelled due to the Planner's Institute Conference, and the
Commission concurred
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
Lois Larue 3138 Barkentine Road distributed a copy of an article entitled "Home
Buyers Unaware of Slide Studies" to the Commission. She discussed her
objections to the Long Point project.
ADJOURNMENT
At 9 08 P M Commissioner Slayden moved to adjourn the meeting to Tuesday,
March 9, 1999 at 7 00 P M in the Community Room at Hesse park. The motion
was seconded by Commissioner Paris. With no objections, it was so ordered by
Chairman Cartwright, (7-0)
W:1PClmin utes119990223.doc
Planning Commission Minutes
February 23,1999
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