PC MINS 19980310CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
MARCH 10, 1998
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
3/2 /98
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P M by Acting Chairman Cartwright at the
Hesse Park Community Building, 29310 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Commissioner Lyon.
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Alberio, Lyon, Slayden, Vannorsdall and
Acting Chairman Cartwright Commissioner Paris arrived at
7-03 P M
Absent Chairman Clark (excused).
Also present were Acting Director/Secretary Rojas, Senior Planner Snow, Associate
Planners Pfost and Fox, Assistant Planner Louie, and Recording Secretary Atuatasi.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to approve the agenda as presented. The
motion was seconded by Commissioner Alberio and passed, (6-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff
Staff distributed three items of correspondence regarding Agenda Item No. 2
(Site Plan Review No. 8017 - Appeal); an item of correspondence regarding
Agenda Item No. 4 (Conditional Use Permit No. 155 Revision B'and Grading
Permit 1987); copies of the Final Environmental Impact Report for the upcoming
Marriott project; and, orientation material from City Attorney Lynch related to the
Ralph M. Brown Act.
Commission
Vice Chairman Cartwright reported on the attendance of the Commission at the
"Planner's Institute" held March 5, 6, and 7, 1998 in Long Beach. On behalf of the
Commission, he thanked the City for making it possible for them to attend a very
informative and educational conference.
CONSENT CALENDAR
None.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
1. Conditional Use Permit No. 200. Coastal Permit No. 143, and
Grading Permit No. 1993; City of Rancho Palos Verdes, Point
Interpretive Center, 31501 Palos Verdes Drive West.
Vice Chairman Cartwright read aloud the description of the project and Staffs
recommendation for this Item He asked Staff if they had any additional comments for
this item and Associate Planner Pfost replied that he had none Vice Chairman
Cartwright asked the Commission if they had any questions for Staff, and there none.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staff s Recommendation to remove
Conditional Use Permit No. 200, Coastal Permit No. 143, and Grading Permit No.
1993 from the Planning Commission Agenda until analysis of the project was
completed. Upon receipt of this information, the item will be re -noticed for a
Public Hearing item. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Paris and
passed unanimously,(6-0).
Commissioner Alberio requested that Agenda Item No. 3 be considered before Agenda
Item No 2 since the applicant was present, but ill at that time
Commissioner Paris suggested that the Public Hearings be re -ordered since Agenda
Item No 2 would take the most discussion time
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to re -order the Public Hearings as follows:
1st: Agenda Item No. 3 (Site Plan Review No. 8216)
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 2
2nd: Agenda Item No. 4 (Conditional Use Permit No. 155 - Revision 'B',
and Grading Permit No. 1987)
3rd: Agenda Item No. 2 (Site Plan Review No. 8017 - Appeal)
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Alberio and passed unanimously,
(6-0).
Vice Chairman Cartwright briefly discussed the function of the Planning Commission
and informed the public of the protocol for the meeting.
The Commission proceeded with consideration of Agenda Item No 3
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. Site Plan Review no. 8216; Ludwig and Pat Zelt, 4100 Seahorse Lane.
Commissioner Alberio moved to waive the reading of the Staff Report. The
motion was seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall and passed.
Commissioner Alberio moved to open the Public Hearing. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall and passed.
Mr. Chip Zelt} (applicant) 4100 Seahorse Lane, stated that he was present to answer
any questions for the Commission
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the Commission if they had any questions for the
applicant and if they wished to discuss this item The Commission had no questions or
comments
Commissioner Alberio moved to close the Public Hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Paris. With no objection, the Public Hearing was declared closed
by Vice Chairman Cartwright.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staffs recommendation to adopt
P.C. Resolution No. 98-11, thereby approving Site plan Review No. 8216, subject
to conditions. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Slayden and passed
by a roll -call vote, (6-0).
Vice Chairman Cartwright noted the 15 -day appeal period.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 3
4. Conditional Use permit No. 155 - Revision `B' and Grading Permit No.
1987; Mir. ,john Resich, Green Hills Memorial Park. 27501 South
Western Avenue.
Associate Planner Pfost presented the Staff Report stating that the applicant submitted
applications for Conditional Use Permit No 155 - Revision 'B' and Grading Permit No
1987 requesting the removal of three existing below grade fuel tanks, installation of two
new above grade fuel tanks, and a total of 139 cubic yards of grading activity
necessary to fill in the area of the removed underground tanks The application was
deemed and was deemed complete in February 1998.
Mr Pfost stated that Staff believed that the proposed project complied with the
requirements of the code and that there were no significant adverse impacts on the
property and therefore, recommended approval of the Conditional Use Permit Revision,
subject to conditions
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the Commission if they had any questions or
comments for Staff regarding this item.
Commissioner Alberio discussed ramifications of removal of any contaminated soils to
appropriate disposal facilities
Commissioner Vannorsdall requested that the conditions for this item include the
applicant submit the state required contamination report to the City.
Acting Director/Secretary Rous stated that the proposed conditions of approval require
that the applicant obtain these permits from the State
Vice Chairman Cartwright recollected that the Commission had previously considered
and approved a similar project (California Water) and asked Staff if there had been any
negative feedback since the implementation of that project.
Acting Director/Secretary Rous replied that the project was completed with no negative
feedback
Commissioner Paris moved to open the Public Hearing. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Slayden and passed.
Mr Ken Hekimian (applicant's engineer) 15661 Producer Lane #3, Huntington Beach,
CA, who designed the facility stated that Staff's Report was very thorough and
Planning commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 4
comprehensive Mr Hekimian informed the Commission that the contaminated soil was
no longer exported to Class `1' sites, but that it was now transported to incinerators
located at Lynwood and Azusa
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the engineer if mitigation measures for the above-
ground fuel tanks were considered if a disaster or an earthquake occurred
Mr Hekimian replied that he obtained standards from the Fire Department as well as
the International Conference of Building Officials (ICBO) which included earthquake
restraints Mr Hekimian stated that the above -ground fuel tanks were set on pedestals
that were locked into the concrete
Commissioner Paris asked why the above -ground fuel tanks were being located in an
area other than the existing location
Associate Planner Pfost replied that the re -location was for safety reasons so as not to
interfere with the vehicular activity (tractors, etc.) at the access of the maintenance
yard.
Mr. Don Shults. 2129 Velez Drive, representing the Rolling Hills Riviera Homeowners
Association stated that in 1996 the association requested that Green Hills remove a dirt
pile which was located closely to the back of neighbor's home since the dust from the
dirt pile affected the abutting property owners and also caused noise impacts from the
machinery and equipment operations Mr Shults stated that Green Hills agreed to
remove the dirt pile at a later time, but that it has not been removed at this time After
additional contact with Green Hills, he was not successful in obtaining a positive
response Mr Shults stated the homeowners association opposed the proposed
project and requested that the Commission deny the applicant's proposed project until
their needs had been met.
Associate Planner stated that the dirt pile was approved as a part of Green Hills Master
Plan (conditioned) in 1990 and that the dirt was stored in that particular location and
utilized for internments
Mr. John Resich. (applicant's attorney) 840 W 9th Street, San Pedro, CA stated that
his client would fill the holes after the underground fuel tanks were removed and that in
the future a grading permit would be submitted to the City for removal of the pile
located approximately fifty feet from the abutting property to the south
Mr. Rudolph Joon, 1984 Rolling Vista Drive #7, requested permission to submit a
petition list from the Rolling Hills Townclub, as he was unaware that the deadline to
submit related correspondence for this item was at 12.00 noon before the date of the
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 5
hearing The Commission permitted submittal of the petition He stated that the
residents on the list opposed the proposed project since it was clearly visible from their
upstairs rooms and that it was an eyesoar Mr Joon stated that the residents
suggested that the applicant locate the above -ground fuel tanks approximately thirty
feet to the north of the planned location (closer to the property line), near the east -west
retaining wall so that they will not be visible from the resident's homes.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to close the Public Hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden. With no objection, the Public Hearing was declared
closed by Vice Chairman Cartwright.
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked for Commission discussion of this item
Commissioners Paris, Lyon, Slayden, and Vannorsdall had no objections to the
proposed project.
Commissioner Alberio was concerned with the removal of the dirt pile since it was an
issue with the Rolling Hills Riviera Homeowners Association He suggested that Staff
research further into the Green Hills Master Plan to explore other areas for relocation of
the dirt pile Mr Alberio also suggested that the applicant work with the homeowners
association to alleviate their concerns regarding the dirt pile
Staff stated that the dirt pile was permitted through the Green Hills Master Plan
Mr. Resich stated that Green Hills intended to submit application in the near future for
modifications to the overall site
The Commission requested that an update on the submittal of the pending application
be provided in six months
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staff's recommendation to adopt
P.C. Resolution No. 98-12, thereby approving Conditional use Permit No. 155 -
Revision `B' and Grading Permit No. 1987. The motion was seconded by
Commissioner Alberio.
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the maker of the motion to amend and include the
conditions as discussed (six month review of the piling and relocation of the above-
ground fuel tanks), Commissioner Vannorsdall amended the motion, which was
seconded by Commissioner Lyon as follows
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staffs recommendation to adopt
P.C. Resolution No. 98-12 ; thereby approving Conditional Use Permit No. 155
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 6
Revision 'B' and Grading Permit No. 1987 subject to conditions, with direction to
staff to work with the applicant to relocate the tanks as close to the minimum
setback line as feasible. The motion was seconded by Commissioner Lyon and
passed by a unanimous roll -call vote, (6-0).
Vice Chairman Cartwright noted the 15 -day appeal period
RECESS AND RECONVENE
At 8 06 P.M. there was a brief recess until 8 15 P M when the meeting reconvened.
At this time, Agenda Item No 2 was considered
2. Site Plan Review No. 8017 - Appeal; Mark Abrams, 44 Oceanaire
Drive (applicant]; Karyl Newton, 46 Oceanaire Drive [appellant].
Associate Planner Fox presented the Staff Report and stated that the applicant
submitted an application for a Site Plan Review in April 1997 proposing a second ham
radio antenna support structure and array with an overall height of sixty feet in the rear -
yard of his residence. The application was deemed complete in December 1997. Staff
completed all the necessary analysis and issued a notice of decision on January 14,
1998 which conditionally approved the proposed project On January 19, 1998 the
Director issued an amended notice for Site Plan Review No. 8017 to include the
modification to Condition Nos 3 and 7 The 15 -day appeal period was extended to
expire on February 3, 1998 However, on January 30, 1998, within the appeal period,
an appeal of the Staff level determination to the Planning Commission was filed by Mrs.
Karyl Newton
Associate Planner Fox stated that Staff believed that the proposed ham radio antenna
support structure and array were consistent with the provisions of the old Code under
which the application must be processed Therefore, Staff recommended denying the
appeal and upholding the Director's approval of Site Plan Review No. 8017, subject to
conditions.
The appellants main reasons for opposition to the project were identified as: 1) View
Issues, 2) Economic Impact to adjacent properties, 3) Alleged commercial use of the
Ham Radio Antennae already existing on the site; and, 4) Inadequacy of Public Notice
Associate Planner Fox briefly summarized the Staff Report discussion of each of these
issues including that Staff has no direct proof of commercial use of the existing
antennae, and that the old Code did not require notice to adjacent property owners of
proposed or approved Ham Radio Antennae permits Although not specifically required
Staff did provide notice of both the original and amended Director's Decisions to
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 7
Interested parties identified in the course of processing the application. Staff employed
the current noticing criteria for the appeal, Including publication of a hearing notice in
the Palos Verdes Peninsula News, and distribution of notices to property owners within
500 feet of the subject property.
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the Commission if they had any questions or
comments for Staff regarding this item
Commissioner Alberio stated that he had visited the subject site and that the applicant
voluntarily informed him that other persons had relocated their equipment from
Torrance and San Pedro to the project site Mr Alberio asked if Staff was aware of
other persons utilizing the applicant's second ham radio antennae at the subject site
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas replied that Staff was not aware of this situation
Commissioner Slayden asked why two Ham Antennae were permitted on a single lot,
and Acting Director/Secretary Rojas stated that input from radio operators was
considered in adopting the regulations, and likely influenced the final decision to allow
two
Commissioner Lyon asked why the requirement of a signed declaration was eliminated
when the conditions of approval were revised on January 19, 1998
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas replied that after several discussions with the
applicant, the Building Official, City Attorney and himself, Staff agreed to modify the
language of Condition No 3 regarding a signed prohibition of commercial use of the
second ham radio antennae. Mr. Rojas stated that the modified language was
structured to protect the City from unforeseen litigation matters
Commissioner Paris felt the modified language in Condition Nos 3 and 7 could be
interpreted to facilitate the unpermitted commercial use of the proposed ham radio
antennae
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the condition modifications were drafted in a
manner that makes clear to the applicant that the antennae could not be utilized for
commercial purposes. However, Staff indicated that the conditions could be amended
as the Commission deemed appropriate.
Commissioner Paris asked Staff if consideration was given to the possibility of
terminating the applicant's permit (if granted) in the event that the antennae was
utilized for commercial purposes
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 8
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas replied that if the antennae were used for commercial
purposes, the old Development Code provides authority to revoke any such permit
Vice Chairman Cartwright stated that any decision on this project should be based on
evidence presented, and not on speculation, and also asked Staff about the total of
number of ham radio antennae in the City
Associate Planner Fox replied that from 1978 to present there were approximately fifty
applications approved by the City, but that records show about half of those do not
currently exist, and that information on heights had not been compiled
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to open the Public Hearing. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Paris and passed.
Mr Mitchell Albert (appellant's attorney) stated that there were two main issues he
would discuss as the basis for opposing the recommendation of the Staff Report He
stated that the first issue was an incorrect assumption that the existing antenna
complied with the City's code and, the second issue was that there is evidence that the
existing ham radio antenna is utilized for commercial purposes Mr Albert stated that
there was no building permit for the existing antenna which was measured at fifty-four
and half feet high as indicated in a Surveyor's Report prepared on behalf of the
appellant. He also stated that this height did not comply with the City's Code Mr
Albert stated that the applicant should not be entitled to another antenna since his
existing antenna did not comply with the Code Mr Albert stated that there was plenty
of evidence presented to prove that the ham radio antennae was being utilized for
commercial purposes. Mr Albert stated that the conditions of approval for the existing
antenna indicate that the antenna must be nested at thirty feet when not in use The
appellant has observed that it was always at the full height of fifty-four and half feet,
and concluded that this was evident that the applicant's existing antennae was being
operated around the clock for commercial purposes. Mr. Albert was informed by his
client that Mrs Abram's told a neighbor that the antenna was being used for'Lo-Jak', a
stolen auto tracking system which could not be verified at that time, but that the
statement made by the applicant was additional evidence that the ham radio antennae
was being utilized for commercial purposes Mr. Albert stated that Mrs. Abrams
(applicant's wife) told Mrs Newton (appellant) that was the sole purpose for the ham
radio antenna, which was further evidence of commercial use Mr Albert stated that
Mrs Newton's husband is an engineer, and that he measured the strongest frequency
of radio waves or signal he received through his home to be 45 02 mega hertz which is
known as `commercial frequency'. Mr Albert stated that the appellants television
reception is often interrupted, and believes the case is Mr. Abrams antennae. Mr.
Albert also mentioned that the applicant was in the mobile telecommunications
business Given the factors as mentioned, Mr Albert stated his opinion that there was
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 9
0 9
enough evidence presented to prove that the ham radio antenna was being used
commercially and that the existing antenna exceeded the height limitation as indicated
in the City's Code. Mr. Albert concluded his testimony by requesting the Commission
to consider the non-compliance of the existing antenna and not entitle the applicant to
the present application in which he seeks approval of a second ham radio antennae
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Staff if the existing antenna complied with the City's
Code
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas replied that the existing antenna was not in compliance
based on the information provided by the appellant and that this issue could be
pursued by Code Enforcement
Ms. Karyl Newton, (appellant) 46 Oceanaire Drive, stated that she and her family lived
in the City since 1974, but moved to Del Cerro in 1984 in part because all the utilities in
that area were underground She stated that in 1990 Mr Abrams constructed an array
of antennae which measured to a height of fifty-four and half feet as stated in a
surveyor's report Mrs Newton stated that since 1990 she had never seen the antenna
nested at thirty feet. She asserted that final approval was not given for that project and
that there was no building permit Mrs Newton informed the Commission that Mrs
Abrams told her that the second antennae (ham radio) would be used for Mr Abrams
business. Mrs Newton also mentioned that Mr Abrams was in the telecommunications
business and that his business was located in Paramount She questioned the need
for a second ham radio when one already existed She distributed to the Commission a
copy of the application for the ham radio antenna and then displayed photographs of
the ham antenna as well as a commercial antenna. Mrs. Newton stated that she had
discussions with several radio-frequency engineers as well as ham operators who
basically stated that the existing antennae was not a ham antenna, but instead was a
short distance relay antenna and that the multiple monopoles were used to gather
multiple signals then relayed to another location. Mrs. Newton stated that she had also
spoken to the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and discovered that Mr.
Abrams obtained a business licensed with Mobile Communications which is only used
for mobile equipment and also discovered that Mr Abrams had an advanced ham
operator license which all went under a business address located in Paramount It was
Mrs. Newton's understanding that the license was site specific, and not for Mr Abrams'
use at his residence.
Mr. Ian MacDonald 47 Oceanaire Drive, stated that he has lived at his residence for
thirty-three years and as soon as Mr Abrams moved into the neighborhood and
erected his array of antennae the neighbors began to experience problems with their
Planning commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 10
television sets, particularly on Saturdays and Sundays on Channel 2 Mr MacDonald
stated that Mr Abrams suggested he connect to cable television to avoid television
Interference from his antennae
Commissioner Alberto questioned whether the FCC had been consulted, and Mr
MacDonald said he had checked with them in the past, and must do so again
Mr. Michael Cicoria, 62 Oceanaire Drive, stated that he purchased his home back in
1959 and that part of the reason was the same as mentioned by Mrs. Newton the
underground utilities. Mr Cicoria felt that the City should not have approved the
applicant's previous request for the existing antenna because of the Covenants,
Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&R's) that were originally established for the Del Cerro
Development Mr Cicoria wanted to maintain a decent neighborhood and strongly
opposed the existing antenna as well as the proposed antennae Mr Clcoria stated his
concern with past negative contacts with Staff
Upon question from Commissioner Vannorsdall, Mr. Cicoria indicated that the CC&R's
had expired
Vice Chairman Cartwright stated for the benefit of the audience that the item under
consideration was primarily the proposed antenna and not the existing antenna.
Mr. Barry Donegan, 42 Oceanaire Drive, also in opposition, stated that Mr. Abrams told
him two years ago that he was in the process of obtaining a contract with an anti -
vehicle theft device company through Pactel Mr. Donegan stated that this was
additional evidence to prove that Mr Abrams was operating a business and that his
antennae was being utilized for commercial purposes. Mr. Donegan also stated
concerns that the proposed antennae would adversely impact property values if it were
to be approved
Mr. Mark Abrams, 44 Oceanaire Drive, stated that he wanted to clarify two issues which
most of the opposing side had presented to the Commission that evening
The first issue related to the building permit for his existing antennae structure and, the
second issue was in regard to the use of his proposed antennae structure Mr Abrams
stated that he could not understand why the City's records were not complete, and
submitted for the Commission consideration a copy of the stamped plans for the
existing antennae structure He asserted that the plans indicated that the antennae
structure had changed very little, from the plan to the construction and stated that the
height of the antennae was fifty-two and a half feet from the ground. Mr. Abrams stated
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 11
that when the Inspector visited his property the height of the existing antennae was 52
feet. Mr Abrams could not recollect the last name of this Inspector, but displayed the
signed Final Inspection Card.
He stated that Ms Newton alleged that his antenna was never nested at thirty feet, and
admitted this was true since the antennae was in use twenty-four hours a day, seven
days a week. He stated that the antenna position has not changed since the inspector
signed off the Final Inspection Card Mr Abrams stated that the reason for his
antennae being operated at all hours was that other persons (ham radio operators)
were utilizing the antenna as well.
He told the Commission that he had a piece of equipment in his home from Teletrack
(formerly known as Pactel Teletrack) stolen vehicle location system. Mr. Abrams stated
his opinion that the City Code specifically addressed the transmission of antennae and
that when he obtained his permit he asked City Staff about'receive only antennae' and
whether or not he could receive on any frequency he so desired He stated that a
former City employee replied that receiving antennae were not covered by the Code
and that an antennae that receives only is not considered as commercial under any
circumstances Mr Abrams stated that the equipment (Teletrack) in is home was
'receiving only' equipment which only receives signals transmitted by the automobiles
and that the signal is tied to by a Global Position System Response information
travels through telephone lines to Teletrack's office. Teletrack has 100 or more receive
sites In addition to the one that he had at his residence. Mr Abrams stated that by
receiving the signals at the different times, Teletrack was able to locate the vehicle and
that at no time was there a signal transmitted by that equipment Mr. Abrams therefore
asserted that it was not covered as a commercial radio since it receives only
Mr Abrams discussed his ham radio and TV antenna and stated that Planning
Department Staff clarified that the City does not consider the master TV antennae to be
one of the two Ham Radio antennae structures allowed by the Code. He stated that
since the Municipal Code entitled him to two (2) ham radio antennae he chose to take
advantage of that to alleviate interference problems between some of the ham
equipment located at his home Mr Abrams stated that he had a repeater at his home
which is an automated relay station that receives signals on one frequency and
retransmits out on another frequency. The reason for doing so was that radio signals in
the VHFspectrum travel primarily in line of sight as opposed to the HF frequency which
operated between frequencies of three and thirty mega hertz Ham operators generally
use VHF for talking around the world therefore equipment location is based on line of
sight. Mr Abrams stated that the type of communications equipment that he dealt with
were VHF and UHF. He stated that he was in the radio commercial business, held
FCC licenses, and that the mailing address used for his ham radio license was his
business address in Paramount, and explained that he wanted his privacy and did not
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 12
want his home address on a public FCC data base. Mr. Abrams stated that ham radio
licenses allowed the holder to operate anywhere in the United States and many foreign
countries
Mr Abrams stated that the radio transmissions do not constitute a health hazard when
one is at a certain distance from the antennae He stated the frequency, power, and
technical parameters had conducted a survey of his site to make sure that he was in
compliance with the Federal standards. In regards to the television interferences, Mr.
Abrams stated that most consumer equipment (television sets, stereos, etc.) were made
inexpensively and do not contain shielding or Radio Frequency (RF) interference
suppression devices since that would increase the cost of equipment. Mr. Abrams
stated that the equipment in his residence costs over $100,000 00 dollars and
contained many devices for suppressing internal RF interference as well as containing
devices to suppress the creation of interference to other pieces of commercial grade
equipment He further explained that the frequency of the transmitter determined
whether or not it was commercial Mr Abrams stated that the allegations made by the
appellant's side regarding his use of antennae and equipment for commercial purposes
were untrue Throughout his many experience years with ham radio operations, Mr
Abrams stated he had never known of anyone utilizing an oscilloscope to measure
signal frequency, as Mr Newton had done in getting a reading of 45 02 mega hertz.
Mr Abrams insisted that the frequency signal which Mr Newton measured could have
been radiated from a television set or a cordless telephone and not from his antennae.
Mr. Abrams stated that three of his neighbors complained to him about television
interferences, including Mr MacDonald who stated that the cause of this interference
was Mr Abrams existing antennae. Mr. Abrams stated that in order to accommodate
Mr. MacDonald he suggested that Mr Ian contact him when the interference recurred to
determine if in fact it were coming from his antennae. Mr. Abrams stated that when
informed of an occurrence of the interference he flipped the main breaker switch off to
shut -down all of his equipment and then asked if Mr. MacDonald still had television
indifference in which Mr. MacDonald replied, 'yes' Mr Abrams also mentioned that
Ms Newton complained about the same situation and that he offered to come over to
her home to find out where the television indifference was coming from. Mr. Abrams
stated that to this date Ms Newton had never contacted him to research the issue He
did not understand why Ms Newton complained before the Commission that evening
about the television interference that she experienced but had not taken him up on his
offer to help determine the resource Mr Abrams stated that he was involved in a
different problem, and discovered that the problem was cause by a mercury vapor
street light. Mr. Abrams stated that all kinds of devices radiate interference and that
the interference in the neighborhood could come from various radar sources including
domes He then admitted that some of the indifference probably comes from the
equipment at his house, but believed that inexpensive home entertainment equipment
is particularly to blame because manufacturers had not included shielding to prevent
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1999
Page 13
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Interferences Mr Abrams stated that Inexpensive television sets without shielding
costing $300, and not $500 or $800 will likely remain television Interferences
Mr Abrams stated that the square footage on his lot ( 46 acres) was inconsistent on his
two applications and apologized to the Commission for the Inaccuracy.
Mr Abrams stated that the Commission, Staff and public could visit his home to see for
themselves if there was such equipment there, and then stated that there was no type
of equipment at his home utilized for commercial purposes Mr Abrams, in response to
Ms Newton's issue of aesthetics, stated that he had seen some pretty ugly antennae
structures In his time and some beautiful ones As a radio enthusiast, Mr. Abrams
stressed that beauty was in the eye of the beholder, and that he could look at an
antennae structure and admire the beauty of the design and the performance that it
gives.
Commissioner Paris asked Mr Abrams if he or his family members derive, directly or
indirectly, any revenue from Teletrack, ham groups, or any other organizations as a
result of the operations at his residence
Mr Abrams replied the he does derive some revenue from Teletrack which is the only
piece of non -amateur equipment that is there Mr Abrams stated that he charged all
the gentlemen seated behind him (ham radio operators) for having their equipment at
his home and that these charges were for utility costs.
Commissioner Paris asked Mr. Abrams how much was his electricity bill was monthly,
to which Mr. Abrams responded that he preferred not answering that question In public,
but that he would be more than glad to tell him personally what his electric bill
amounted to on a monthly basis. Mr. Abrams also discussed the need for air
conditioning to cool the equipment room
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Mr. Abrams how many hours or days of the week that
he transmits and receives on his equipment and Mr Abrams replied that he utilized his
equipment twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Mr Abrams again if he utilized his equipment for both
transmitting and receiving and Mr Abrams replied that the equipment will transmit
whenever someone attempts to use It and stated that his equipment receives all the
time from a stand-by mode
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Mr Abrams if was going to comply with all of the
proposed conditions of approval such as Condition No 7, restricting use of the
antenna to the occupant of the property or any other person on the site.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1988
Page 14
Mr Abrams stated that he objected to that condition and replied that he was allowed to
utilize his equipment from wherever he happened to be and that he did not have to be
physically at home neither does his house guest because it is an automated relay
station that operates by remote control and could be operated from any location in
southern California as long as he was within the range of Rancho Palos Verdes or
some other site that relays to Palos Verdes
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Staff if Condition No 7 was intended for the
applicant's request to be on the site when utilizing the equipment and Acting
Director/Secretary Rous replied that this was the intent.
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Mr Abrams if he objected to any of the other
conditions and Mr Abrams stated that he did not refuse to sign a declaration indicating
that he only use the antennae for non-commercial purposes, but that he told the City
Staff that he would be glad to sign the statement if the Municipal Code gives the City
the authority to require this information
Mr. Sandy Samuels, Box 950489, Mission Hills, CA stated that although other
equipment is typically uses radio frequency could be measured with an oscilloscope at
twenty or thirty mega cycles, but certainly not 45 mega cycles Mr Samuels asked the
Commission to consider what ham radio could do for the City and not what the City
could do for ham radio Mr Samuels indicated that he had equipment at Mr. Abrams
property and that he helped pay for electricity
Mrs. Judith Abrams, 44 Oceanaire Drive, stated that she was constantly operating their
ham radio and mentioned that she had various medical problems, and felt comfortable
knowing she had access to Ham Radio communications capability She stated that she
was unaware of any commercial uses of their antennae, and that their antenna was
able to assist in on an emergency that occurred (fire) Mrs Abrams stated Ms. Newton
statement to the Commission was untrue, and that she had not stated that they use
their antennae for Lo-Jak.
Mr Gary Franks, 6902 Figueroa Street, Los Angeles, CA stated that he was a
communications supervisor for the Los Angeles Unified School District Mr Franks
stated that he had an amateur repeater at Mr Abrams home and stated that the school
was one-third of the emergency communications system for the whole school district
He stated that the addition of Mr Abrams second tower would improve their
communication systems
Mr. Douglas R. Marston, 14518 Daphne Avenue, Gardena, CA stated that he taught
electronics at EI Camino Jr College and was a ham operator since 1963 He stressed
to the Commission the valuable service ham radio performs in emergency situations,
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
Page 16
such as the fire emergency mentioned by Mrs Abrams Mr. Marston stated that if an
earthquake were to occur that evening the piece of equipment (radio) in his hand could
be the only communications means to retrieve assistance
Mr Tom Vegors, P 0 Box 2181, Rancho Palos Verdes stated that he also had
equipment at Mr Abrams residence and stated that the mayor benefit of having this type
of equipment was that it provided emergency communications He stated that the
location of Mr. Abrams antennae was unique.
Mr. Carlton Goss, 5746 Wildbriar Drive, represented the Southwest Coast Amateur
Radio Association also stressed how valuable the services of ham radio (strand
repeater) was especially for the medical attention needed for the participants in the
Special Olympics Mr Goss stated that he was also able to assist a motorist whose
vehicle was on fire while travelling in front of him
At this time, Senior Planner Snow informed the Commission that there was one
additional request to speak, but that the speaker left early (8 00 P M ) and asked that
his statement be read aloud and for the record.
Mr. Dale Hanks, 5225 Middlecrest Road, stated that he was the City radio officer
responsible to see that radio service was available in an emergency and stated that the
City was divided, so far as radio propagation was concerned by the ridge along Crest
Road A repeater at the applicant's site would help solve propagation problems so that
the whole City could be served in case of a disaster
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked the appellant's attorney, Mr. Albert if he wished to
rebut.
Mr Albert clarified for the record that he called the piece of equipment to measure
radio frequency at Mr. Abrams resident an oscilloscope which was incorrect, but that it
was a spectrum analyzer He stated that the speakers who favored the antenna only
mentioned the merits of ham radio which he felt was a false issue since the applicant
already has an antennae and that cellular phones and other technology is now
available to deal with emergency problems when they arise Mr. Albert stated that Mr.
Abrams had admitted to everything he had asserted earlier, such as the exceeding
height (non-compliance) of the existing antennae Mr Albert stated that Mr. Abrams
had a Site Plan application or the old code equivalent which was for forty feet and that
if he wanted the antennae higher he would have to file other clearances and approvals
which he does not have at this time. He stated that Mr Abrams also admitted that his
antennae was being utilized for commercial purposes when mentioned that he derived
revenue from Teletrack
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March 10, 1998
Page 16
Vice Chairman Cartwright asked Staff if they wished to comment on Mr Albert's
statements.
Acting Director/Secretary Rotas stated that Staff will pursue and investigate the existing
antennae through Code Enforcement as to the issue of commercial nature Staff would
look into whether use by the owner, based on the old code, for Teletrack which appears
to be beyond the approved ham radio antennae use
Commissioner Vannorsdall suggested that the Commission close the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Alberio stated that the Commission should wait until Staff returns with
the information as mentioned by the Acting Director/Secretary
Commissioner Vannorsdall requested that the Public Hearing of this item be continued
because of several open questions including information from the FCC as to what they
consider commercial usage. Mr Vannorsdall suggested that the Commission seek
direction from City Council for policy direction concerning neighborhood compatibility,
and questioned whether the clubs or Teletrack uses would require business licenses.
Mr. Vannorsdall also questioned the appropriateness of serial clubs using a single
residential property
Commissioner Alberio believed that the applicant's antenna was a burden to the
community and felt that Staff should analyze the situation further and that contributing
factors for a determination should be based on the new code He also concurred with
continuing the Public Hearing
Vice Chairman Cartwright also favored a continuance of this Public Hearing until
answers were available to questions regarding remote versus on-site use, clarification
and definition of commercial use, and if this application complied with the Development
Code, given the new information introduced through the appellant and applicant
testimonies.
Commissioner Slayden agreed on a continuance and requested that Staff return to the
Commission with a recommendation based on the new information
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to continue the Public Hearing until April 14,
1998 and direct Staff to analyze new information, coordinate with the City
Attorney, and return with a specific recommendation to the Commission. The
motion was seconded by Commissioner Slayden and passed by a roll -call vote,
is -off.
Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1988
Page 17
0' 0
NEW BUSINESS
None.
Commissioner Alberio excused himself from the chambers and returned before the next
item of discussion
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Staff
6. Pre -agenda for the Planning Commission meeting of March 24, 1998.
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas stated that Staff was currently updating Staff
Resumes and requested the same from the Commission for distribution at the
next meeting.
Commission
Vice Chairman Cartwright inquired about reimbursements from the 'Planner's
Institute Conference` attended by the Commission on March 5, 6, and 7, 1998 and
Recording Secretary Atuatasi replied to submit the necessary attachments to her
for reimbursements.
COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
None.
ADJOURNMENT
At 11:25 P.M. Vice Chairman Cartwright moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded
by Commissioner Lyon. There being no objection, the meeting was duly
adjourned by the Vice Chairman.
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 10, 1998
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