PC MINS 19980210CITY
OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 10, 1998
CALL TO ORDER
Approved
2/24/98 P--
The meeting was called to order at 7 00 P M by Acting Chairman Cartwright at the
Hesse Park Community Building, 29310 Hawthorne Boulevard
FLAG SALUTE
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Commissioner Vannorsdall
ROLL CALL
Present Commissioners Alberto, Lyon, Slayden, Vannorsdall
and Acting Chairman Cartwright
Absent Chairman Clark (excused)
Also present were Acting Director/Secretary Rous, Senior Planner Snow, Associate
Planner Fox, Staff Assistant Zents, and Recording Secretary Atuatasi.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to approve the agenda as presented. The
motion was seconded by Commissioner Slayden and passed, (5-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas stated that there were no Communications from
Staff.
Commission
Acting Chairman Cartwright inquired about the status of the vacancy on the
Commission.
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas replied that the intent of the City Council was to
review a list of candidates and appoint a new commissioner. Mr. Rojas stated
that Staff would follow-up on this matter and keep the Commission informed.
Commissioner Alberio informed the Commission that he received
correspondence and photographs from Mr. Jeff Logan regarding Agenda Item No.
5 when he visited the site at 28757 Enrose Avenue.
Other Commissioners stated that they too received the same information, and
staff verified that the same material was included in the staff report for the item.
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. Minutes of November 25 1997
Commissioner Slayden requested that on page 3, paragraph 9, line 2 the word "not" be
inserted between the words "should" and "be"
Commissioner Vannorsdall requested that on page 6, paragraph 2, line 3 the word
"bee" be modified to read as, "been".
Acting Chairman Cartwright also requested that on page 6, paragraph 6, line 5 the
word "lo" be modified to read as, "lot' and on page 10, paragraph 2, lines 3 and 4 the
words "stated, maybe, should, and and" be deleted and that the word "suggested" be
inserted between the words "then" and "that'.
2. Minutes of December 9 1997
Acting Chairman Cartwright requested that on page 4, paragraph 1, line 1 be modified
to read as, " moved to adopt P C Resolution No 97-74 ..".
3. Minutes of January 27, 1998
Commissioner Alberio moved to approve the Minutes of November 25, 1997 and
December 9, 1997 as amended and the Minutes of January 27, 1998 as presented.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall and passed, (4-0-1) with
Commissioner Lyon abstaining from Agenda Item Nos. 1 and 2 since he was not
present at the meetings of November 25, 1997 and December 9, 1997.
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 2
CONTINUED BUSINESS
4. Conditional Use Permit No 68 - Revision 'D' and Grading Permit No
1931: John and Madonna Beal, 19 Marguerite Drive
Associate Planner Fox updated the Commission on the status of this item and stated at
the January 13, 1998 meeting the Commission requested that Staff and the applicant
work to re -design the project to reduce the amount of grading and look into raising the
building pad by two feet Mr. Fox stated that the applicant had mapped the revisions,
and provided Staff with the revised grading figures as indicated in the Staff Report.
As discussed at the meeting of January 13, 1998, raising the building pad by two feet
would cause an increase in the ridge height, it would impair the view from the property
at 10 Marguerite Drive (located above the subject property) Staff conducted an
analysis at 10 Marguerite Drive and determined that the primary viewing area was in
the kitchen and dining area and the view is of whitewater at Christmas Tree Cove
Associate Planner Fox stated that a structure on the subject property built to the
approved maximum ridgeline elevation of 226'0" would obstruct this view, but that this
view was not protected Staff believed that raising the building pad an additional two
feet resulting in an overall ridgeline elevation of 228'0", would not significantly impair
the view since it would be blocked by a 226'0" structure which is permitted at the site
Therefore, Staff recommended approval of the Conditional Use Permit with a two foot
increase in the maximum ridgeline height
Associate Planner Fox stated that the applicant requested two other modifications; 1)
reducing the northerly side -yard setback and 2) increasing the side -yard wall height.
Staff recommended approval of the height of the side -yard wall, and determined that a
1.1 foot reduction in the northerly side setback would not significantly impair the views
from the adjacent properties. Therefore, Staff recommended approval of these
revisions of the Conditional Use Permit. Mr. Fox concluded his presentation by stating
that based on the revised information from the applicant and previous Staff Reports,
Staff recommended approval of the Conditional Use Permit
Since the Public Hearing remained opened from the previous meeting of January 13,
1998, Acting Chairman Cartwright asked the applicant to approach the podium to speak
first
Mr. Russ Barto (applicant) 3 Malaga Cove Plaza, Palos Verdes Estates, CA 90274,
stated that the Staff Report comprehensively covered the modifications such as the
level of the home which was raised by two feet thereby raising the levels of the
driveways, and reducing a significant cut of the proposed project and the height of the
retaining walls. Mr Barto stated that they also proposed taking a portion of the
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 3
excavated material and spreading this over the twenty-five foot setback area towards
the ocean side of the proposed project so that the exterior will be wheel -chair
accessible
Acting Chairman Cartwright asked the Commission if they had questions for the
applicant.
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that one of the Conditions of Approval for the
proposed project stipulated that the applicant must submit a geological study to the
Commission once the proposed project is approved Mr Vannorsdall cautioned about
the potential geologic issues when he met with the applicant at the subject site
Commissioner Vannorsdall stated that he spoke with a former Planning Commissioner
who was aware of the conditions in that area and stated that there was extensive
geologic work conducted on Lot No 1-A (nearest Palos Verdes Estates) The former
Planning Commissioner also stated that past investigation work cost approximately
one -hundred thousand dollars after which the potential purchaser opted not to buy the
property Commissioner Vannorsdall stated on the information provided him indicated
that there were potential stability issues regarding the subject site worthy of further
investigation.
Mr. Vannorsdall also emphasized to the applicant that caving -off at the coastal bluff
occurs, and that this was the reason for the setback
Mr. Raymond Newby, 10 Marguerite Drive, believed that if the applicant raised the
ridgeline of the proposed project by two feet and reduced the northern setback, that the
resulting structure would impair his view of the coastal whitewater at Christmas Tree
Cove Mr Newby was under the impression that a silouhette with flags would be
erected according to the View Restoration Guidelines so that he and other residents
would be able to see how much of the proposed project would affect his view and other
residents involved
Commissioner Alberio questioned Staff regarding the silouhette requirement
Associate Planner Fox replied that at the meeting of January 13, 1998 while the
Commission discussed the height of the proposed structure it was decided that
construction of a silouhette was not necessary
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if Lorna Burrell, a member of the audience, to
comment on this item since she had spoken when this meeting of January 13, 1998
item was discussed
Planning Gommisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 4
Ms. Lorna Burrell, 31244 Palos Verdes Drive West, replied that she had no further
comment, but that she did not believe that the proposed project would not significantly
impact the view from Mr Newby's property
Commissioner Alberio requested that Mr. Barto approach the Commission for rebuttal
At this time, Acting Director/Secretary Rajas intervened and informed the Commission
that Staff obtained photographs of Mr. Newby's property The photograph displayed
the view from the property and Mr Barto was able to match the photograph for the
proposed project (the Beal plan) to see how the layout of the two lots would relate to
one another.
Acting Chairman Cartwright asked the applicant if he wished to provide any rebuttal
comments.
Mr. Barto felt that he was cooperative with Staff in exploring alternatives which the
Commission would find acceptable for the proposed project He expressed his desire
not to erect a silouhette of the proposed structure.
Commissioner Alberio, after glancing at the photographs which Staff provided, stated
that if the vegetation were eliminated on Mr Newby's property the issue of Mr Newby's
view impairment would largely be resolved
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to close the Public Hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Alberio. With no objection, the meeting was declared closed by
Acting Chairman Cartwright.
Acting Chairman Cartwright requested Commission discussion of this item
Commissioner Slayden felt that the proposed project would not significantly impact the
view from Mr Newby's property.
Commissioner Lyon stated that he had not visited the subject site, but was puzzled by
the view analysis since no silouhette was erected. Mr Lyon asked if Staffs conclusion
would potentially change if a silouhette was erected, and utilized in the view analysis of
the proposed project
Associate Planner Fox replied that this was unlikely but, possible, and that the
Commission's direction was not to erect a silouhette at that time. Mr. Fox also
mentioned the fact a visual analysis was conducted by Staff, and that it does not occur
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 5
•
LIA
Commissioner Alberio stated that when he viewed the photographs of 10 Marguerite
Drive and the proposed project he believed that eliminating the vegetation would
resolve the matter
Commissioner Vannorsdall felt that there would be no significant change of view for Mr.
Newby's residence
Acting Chairman Cartwright echoed the comments of Commissioner Vannorsdall
Mr Cartwright visited the site a few times and concluded that there would not be much
of a view Impairment for the Newby's property and that the modifications made to the
proposed project were substantial such as the reduction of the grading and export, and
the home raised Therefore he supported Staffs recommendation.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staffs recommendation to adopt
P.C. Resolution No. 98-6, thereby conditionally approving Conditional Use Permit
No. 68 - Revision 'D' and Grading Permit No. 1931. The motion was seconded by
Commissioner Slayden and passed by a unanimous roll -call vote, (5-0).
Acting Chairman Cartwright noted the 15 -day appeal period
PUBLIC HEARINGS
5. Reconsideration of Fence, Wall & Hedge Permit No. 20 - Appeal;
Jeff Logan, 28757 Enrose Avenue [applicant]; R.A. Bundgard,
6708 Via Canada GappellantL
Associate Planner Fox recapped discussions from the January 13, 1998 meeting and
described the site conditions regarding portions of the rear wall that are more than four
feet tall. The condition of the slope of the lot which required the wall to be stepped was
discussed as well as the condition of the low point at the northwest corner of the lot
Mr. Logan placed less than three feet of fill at this corner in order to level out the inside
corner of the lot, therefore the rear wall is approximately six feet tall as viewed from the
abutting properties on Via Canada
Associate Planner Fox stated that in reviewing Mr. Logan's application for the Fences,
Walls, and Hedges Permit, it was believed that wall could significantly affect the views
from the Johnson (6712 Via Canada) and Hall (6716 Via Canada) properties Mr Fox
stated that Staff initially approved a modified version of the wall at four feet with an
additional foot of wrought iron at the top of the wall in order to provide the required pool
fencing height and to lessen the view impact on the adjacent properties
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 6
Mr Fox stated that Staff re -visited the project site to inspect the as -built walls and
photographs from the subject property as well as the adjacent properties (Johnson's
and Hall's) were taken. These photographs were taken from the primary viewing areas
of both homes, the dining room at the Johnson's, and the deck outside the living room
at the Hall's Associate Planner Fox stated that based on the comparisons of the
existing and previous conditions and Staffs previous analysis regarding potential view
impairment, Staff believed that the as -built wall would not significantly impair the views
from the Johnson's and Hall's properties
Mr Logan, as a condition of approval would be required to remove most of the foliage
and trim the two ash trees, thereby enhancing the views from adjacent properties.
Therefore, Staff recommended that the Commission modify the approval of the Fences,
Walls and Hedges Permit to reflect the as -built condition of the wall and to modify the
initial tree -trimming requirement regarding trimming of the two ash trees
Commissioner Alberio moved to open the Public Hearing. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Slayden and passed.
Mr Roy Bungard, (appellant) 6708 Via Canada, discussed several discrepancies such
as the height of the as -built wall with no wrought iron railing at the top Mr Bungard
restated his request from the January 13, 1998 meeting that the Commission required
the applicant to lower the north wall of his property by two feet in order to preserve
Mr Bungard's view. Mr. Bungard stated that his main concern was the removal of the
forage, but when he viewed the height of the as -built wall he also became concerned
with this issue
Mr. Arthur Johnson (adjacent neighbor) 6712 Via Canada, provided a series of
photographs to the Commission displaying the wall adjacent to the property He stated
that Staff measured the back northwest wall at six feet, but he measured differently and
stated that the wall was ninety-six inches at the corner of the wall Mr Johnson was
also concerned with the height of the as -built wall and the foliage and the foliage that
was to be removed by Mr Logan.
Acting Chairman Cartwright asked Mr Johnson what his main concerns were so that
the Commission would consider them before delivering a final discussion for the
project.
Mr. Johnson replied that his main concern was that the original proposed height of the
wall was altered when constructed and wondered why the northerly wall was not
subject to the Fence, Wall, and Hedge Permit
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 7
Mrs Carol Johnson. 6712 Via Canada, stated her disagreement with Staffs
measurement of the walls and then expressed how displeased she was with Staffs
analysis, recommendation in favor of the applicant's request, and the general
processing of this project
Mr. Jeff Logan,, (applicant) 28757 Enrose, briefly reiterated the sequence of events
from the time his application was submitted to the City up until that evening He stated
that there was no misunderstanding on his part once the Commission approved his
request at the December 9, 1997 meeting During the appeal period he understood
that only the trimming issue of the two ash trees was appealed, but not the proposed
height of the wall Mr Logan expressed how he worked very diligently with Staff to
explore alternatives to address the concerns of the appellants and yet at the same time,
conform with the City's Building Code to proceed with his proposed project.
Mr. Jim Rogaero} 28751 Enrose, stated that the wall between his property and Mr
Logan's property provided privacy for him and stated that this wall was beneficial for
both he and the applicant
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to close the Public Hearing, seconded by
Commissioner Alberio. With no objections, the Public Hearing was declared
closed by Acting Chairman Cartwright.
Acting Chairman Cartwright asked the Commissioners for any discussion of this item.
Commissioner Vannorsdall was concerned with the issue of privacy and view
impairment for the parties involved. Mr. Vannorsdall felt that the wall around Mr
Logan's property was too high and would impair views for the Bundgard's, Hall's, and
Johnson's. He understood that Mr. Logan's intention for the wall was to provide privacy
for his property, but suggested that perhaps all involved parties should compromise to
resolve the concerns raised that evening.
Commissioner Slayden believed that once the ash trees at Mr. Logan's property were
trimmed to sixteen feet the view for the Bundgard's, Halls, and Johnson's would be
significantly enhanced Mr Slayden pointed out that the northerly wall was not factored
in this application as it is permitted by right and felt that it should not be discussed
Commissioner Lyon abstained from the discussion of this item since he was not present
at the previous meetings of December 9, 1997 and January 13, 1998
Acting Chairman Cartwright echoed the comments of Commissioner Slayden and
believed that the applicant did not commence wall construction with malice Mr
Cartwright supported Staff s recommendation
Planning Gommisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 8
Commissioner Alberio also felt that the applicant, appellant, and other involved parties
could have mitigated the issues of privacy and view through a compromise. Mr Alberio
requested that Staff measure the as -built wall at Mr Logan's property to confirm the
measurements (96") taken by Mr Johnson
Commissioner Alberio moved to re -visit the site of the wall and requested that the
ash trees be trimmed and cut to sixteen feet. Mr. Alberlo stated that this analysis
would assist the Commission in seeking a compromise for this item. The motion
was seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall.
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas clarified for the record that the wall claimed to be
measured at 96 inches by Mr Johnson was the northerly wall, and not subject to the
Fence, Wall, and Hedge Permit Mr. Rojas stated that this wall was allowed to be
measured at six feet on the high side and eight feet on the low side, per the municipal
code
The motion was amended by the maker requesting that the trees be trimmed and
cut to sixteen feet.
Commissioner Slayden stated that the trimming of the ash trees was mentioned in
previous Staff Reports and was part of Staffs recommendation, and that the issue
would have been much clearer if the trimming could have been completed prior to
tonight's meeting.
Acting Director/Secretary Rojas stated that the trimming of the ash trees was required
as a condition of approval, and therefore was subject to change As a result, Staff did
not instruct the applicant to trim the trees since it would be at the applicant's own risk
since the decision to trim them would not be final until the appeal is acted upon
Commissioner Alberio withdrew his motion.
Commissioner Slayden moved to accept Stafrs recommendation to adopt P.C.
Resolution No. 98-7, thereby denying the appeal and upholding the approval of
Fences, Walls, and Hedges Permit No. 20 as recommended. The motion was
seconded by Acting Chairman Cartwright and passed by a roll -call vote (3-1-1)
with Commissioner Vannorsdall dissenting and Commissioner Lyon abstaining.
Acting Chairman Cartwright noted the 15 -day appeal period
NEW BUSINESS
I'Ll
Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 9
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Staff
6. Pre -agenda for the Planning Commission meeting of February 24s
1998.
Commission
Acting Chairman Cartwright informed the Commission that he received a
memorandum from Commissioner Vannorsdall regarding Commission business
items for discussion at future Planning Commission meetings. Mr. Cartwright
suggested to continue this matter upon Chairman Clark's return and requested
that Staff agendize this as a New Business Item for the February 24, 1998
meeting.
COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regardingnon-agenda items)
None.
ADJOURNMENT
At 9:06 P.M. Commissioner Alberio moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded by
Commissioner Slayden. There being no objection, the meeting was duly
adjourned by Acting Chairman Cartwright.
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Planning Commisison Minutes
February 10, 1998
Page 10