PC MINS 19960819CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
ADJOURNED MEETING
AUGUST 19, 1996
l0/8/96D
Q�D
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M by Chairman Glark at the Hesse
Park Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard I
FLAG SALUTE
Recording Secretary Selogie led the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Present: Commissioners Alberio, Cartwright, Ng, Vannorsdall,
Whiteneck and Chairman Clark.
Absent- Commissioner Franklin (excused).
Also Present was Senior Planner Rojas.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Cartwright asked that the agenda be modified to reflect the
meeting day of Monday, August 19, 1996.
By consensus, the Commission approved the agenda as written.
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff
None
Commission
None
1
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
i
CONSENT CALENDAR
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
None.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
None
NEW BUSINESS
•
1. Discussion of the Final Staff Recommendations Regard!12g
Development Code Section 17.02.040
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the City is in the process of revising the
Development Code, including Section 17 02 040 which contains Proposition M
(adopted by residents in 1989 and within the purview of the Planning Commission
and the Review Restoration Commission) He explained that, because the
version of Section 17 02 040 forwarded to the City Council by the Planning
Commission was substantially changed by the Council, this item is before the
Commission for comments prior to it being returned for the Council's
consideration on August 20, 1998
Senior Planner Rojas related the Council's direction to return the language in
Section 17.02.040 to that of Proposition M wherever possible He clarified that
the changes remaining include those determined to be essential by the City
Attorney and Staff to clarify Proposition M and those which the Council directed.
He stated that the definitions of "view" and "viewing area" will be explained in the
Guidelines, which will be prepared after the revisions to Section 17 02.040 are
adopted.
Commissioner Alberio noted that the revised version of Development Code
Section 17 02 040 includes an appeal process before the View Restoration
Commission.
Senior Planner Rojas clarified that the revised version of Section 17 02.040
includes an appeal process whereby the View Restoration Commission decisions
could be appealed to the City Council, which was not included in the original
version of Proposition M.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1998
2
Chairman Clark called attention to the fact that jurisdiction regarding Section
17 02 040 lies with two bodies, the Planning Commission and the View
Restoration Commission, but, exclusive jurisdiction for the portion dealing with
view impairment caused by vegetation lies with the View Restoration Commission
and should not be commented on by the Planning Commission
Senior Planner Rotas advised that, during recent consideration of the revisions to
Section 17.02.040, the View Restoration Commission did not comment on the
portion which lies exclusively within the purview of the Planning Commission
In response to a question from Commissioner Vannorsdall, Senior Planner Rojas
clarified that foundations are exempted from the setback requirements and that
this issue is addressed in the Setbacks portion of the Development Code.
The Commission reviewed the "marked up" (mu) copy of the proposed revisions
to Development Code Section 17 02.040 as follows.
Page 1
Paragraph 7. No. AS, Commissioner Cartwright expressed his disagreement with
the addition of trellises as lot coverage. He related his understanding that the
inclusion of the wording "including trellises; decks over thirty (30) inches in height,
as measured from existing adjacent grade; parking areas, or driveways" would
change the definition of either "building," "structure," or both, and that it would
result in the need to consider those items for compatibility purposes
Commissioner Ng pointed out that a trellis might not be attached to a building,
that it could be a separate structure
Senior Planner Rojas advised that, should the Commission feel that the proposed
language would either change the meaning of Proposition M or appear to be
unnecessary, it is within the Commission's authority to remove any of the
recommended modifications. He explained that Proposition M was adopted with
a definition of lot coverage and Staff s intent was to include "trellises" in the
definition because trellises are currently counted as lot coverage by Staff, and to
provide clarity and consistency within the Development Code
Chairman Clark related his understanding that lot coverage is defined in the
Development Code to include the specific language discussed above by
Commissioner Cartwright and that it is a recommended addition for purposes of
clarity and consistency He recalled that some of the cases previously
considered by the View Restoration Commission included trellises and he stated
his viewpoint that, if one agrees with the definition of "structure," in No. Al2, then
a trellis should be considered a structure.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
Senior Planner Rojas pointed out that the definition of a "structure" in No. Al2
reads " located on or on top of the ground on a parcel of land utilized for
residential purposes, excluding antennas, skylights, solar panels, and similar
structures not involving the construction of habitable area," and that one could
argue that "trellis" fits that definition
Commissioner Whiteneck noted that a trellis is not a habitable area.
Commissioner Ng stated her understanding that No. A5 only refers to how lot
coverage is calculated, and not the habitable area on a lot.
The Commission agreed that trellises should remain as lot coverage in
No. A5.
Paragraph 12, No. A10, Commissioner Ng related her concern that the language
is not clear with regard to setbacks when a lot is vacant
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the purpose of No A10 is to clarify how to
measure a setback on a lot, but that the setback requirements are located
elsewhere in the Development Code.
The Commission agreed that Paragraph 12, No. A10, should be modified to
cross reference the Development Code section in which setbacks are
discussed.
G__
Paragraph 2. No. A13, Commissioner Vannorsdall pointed out that the inclusion
of No Al 3(f), "The number of stories," as part of the design elements could make
it difficult to build a two-story home. He suggested that No A13, "Style," should
be moved to the "Compatibility„ portion of the Development Code.
Senior Planner Rojas advised that all the items listed as design elements in
No A13 were part of the original Proposition M.
Chairman Clark pointed out that it is not within the Commission's purview to
change any portion of the original Proposition M adopted by the residents.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
4
! 0
Paragraph 3, No. A14, Senior Planner Rojas advised that the View Restoration
Commission recommended the deletion of all the language modifications
proposed to Section No A14, which Staff suggested for clarity purposes.
Commissioner Vannorsdall related his understanding that the Development Code
defines a certain height as the viewing source and suggested that No. 14 should
be modified to include that information He also suggested that the paragraph
after No A14b be modified to exclude "three hundred sixty degrees of horizontal
arc" and include "The significant view may extend in any horizontal direction..."
Commissioner Cartwright commented that it would be difficult to have a three
hundred sixty degree view and "the most significant view" defined as the same
thing He noted that the word "significant" while referring to views is not included
in No A14, but it is included later in Section 17.02.040.
As a member of the committee which drafted Proposition M, Chairman Clark
explained that the wording "three hundred sixty degrees of horizontal arc" was
intentionally placed in Proposition M
Senior Planner Rojas clarified that, for views involving structures, the word
"significant" was already part of Proposition M, but it was not for views involving
foliage and that the viewing source is defined in the Guidelines, revisions to which
will be presented for the Commission's consideration in the near future.
Page 3
Senior Planner Rojas pointed out that "Height Variation Permit" was revised to
read "Height Modification Permit" throughout because residents have confused
"Height Variation Permit" with "Variance " He noted that the different methods
described for measuring the height of a structure are discussed on pages 3, 4
and 5 and that new figures have been added, which are numbered and now
referred to in the text.
0 0
Page 4
Commissioners Ng and Cartwright suggested that the requirements for one-story
basements and cellars should be illustrated in Figure 3.
Commissioner Alberio suggested that Development Code language pertaining to
basements and cellars should be cross referenced in Section 17.02.040.
Senior Planner Rojas affirmed that the requirements for one-story basements and
cellars will be addressed. He advised that cellars and basements are addressed
in the Definitions and Grading sections of the Development Code and that
additional language pertaining to them in Section 17 02 040 was recommended
by Staff to prevent the construction of two-story residences by grading down.
Commissioner Cartwright noted that, where the 16 foot maximum height is shown
in Figure 2, the pre -construction grade appears to continue down and, if it is
viewed from where the grading meets the front of the house, it would appear to
be more than 16 feet
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the 16 foot height in Figure 2 is measured from
the average elevation of the setback line and that, no matter what is done with `
the steps or the grade, it does not change
Page 5
Paragraph 1. No. Bid, Senior Planner Rojas advised that this paragraph was
rewritten to read as follows. "On sloping lots described in Sections '
17.02 040(B)(1)(a) and 17.02.040(B)(1)(b) of this chapter, the foundation of the
structure shall contain a minimum 8 foot step with the slope of the lot as
illustrated in Figure 4 below." He said that this addresses the situation where an
applicant has a pad lot and wants to put a step in the pad in order to say they
have a sloping lot.
Page 6
Paragraph 2, No. B4. Commissioner Vannorsdall related his concern that no
trees over 16 feet in height could be grown, particularly going up the slope on an
up-sloping lot. He suggested that wording be added to address trees on up-
sloping lots.
Chairman Clark stated his understanding that the logic behind the 16 foot height
limitation was to give residents the right to have trees which are at least at the
same height as a single -story home, dwelling or structure.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
0
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the trees could grow up to the point where
they are not impairing views. Therefore, there could be situations where trees
over 16 feet could be allowed on a rear yard slope
Chairman Clark explained that, should trees impair a view from above and a
neighboring property owner pursues it with the View Restoration Commission, the
View Restoration Commission could impose a requirement to trim or lace the
trees to restore the view He related his opinion that more than what is needed
should not be added to the Development Code and that clarification pertaining to
trees could be added to the Guidelines.
Commissioner Alberio questioned if the decisions by the Director referred to in
No. B4 should be appealed to the City Council instead of the Planning
Commission as shown
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the section in question deals with foliage as a
condition of Permit issuance
With regard to height, Commissioner Ng pointed out that the step is a minimum 8
foot requirement and she asked if that means that split levels are not allowed if
there is less than 8 feet
Senior Planner Rojas advised that a split level on a sloping lot would be allowed
with an minimum 8 foot step.
Commissioner Ng stated that, when there is an 8 foot step, a structure is most
likely to be two stories, but, it could be a split level with 4 to 5 feet down or up to
another room.
Senior Planner Rojas advised that there are existing situations as referred to by
Commissioner Ng which would not be affected by this requirement; however, it
would affect an applicant who is proposing a split level to gain another story on a
lot which does not slope.
Paraaraah 3. No. B5, Senior Planner Rojas advised that No B5 was moved to
this portion of Section 17.02.040 from the Definitions portion because Staff felt it
was more of a procedure and because applicants often look for this information in
the body of the Development Code rather than under Definitions. He explained
that the City Attorney felt this would not be a significant change to Proposition M
because the actual language was not being changed, just moved.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
Page 7
Paragraph Nos. 1 - 7, No. C1, Senior Planner Rojas advised that the proposed
language was recommended by the previous Planning Commission to create a
procedure whereby some Height Modification Applications would go directly to the
Planning Commission for review, thereby bypassing the Director's review; that
the City Council added a criteria stating that such applications should go to the
Planning Commission if there is a potential for significant view impairment; that
almost every application has the potential for view impairment, which means a
great majority of Height Modification applications would be referred to the
Planning Commission; and that Staff feels a recommendation should be made to
the Council that all Height Modification applications shall be considered by the
Planning Commission
Commissioner Cartwright questioned why all Height Modification applications
should be referred to the Planning Commission if there is no issue involved with
them
Chairman Clark explained his understanding that the intent was based on input
from the previous Planning Commission to give the Planning Commission
cognizance over consistency in the City and over how these modifications are
done. He stated his philosophical agreement with this and related his supportof
the Planning Commission considering all Height Modification applications.
Commissioner Cartwright suggested that consideration should be given to the
impact such a procedure would have on the Planning Commission's work load
Senior Planner Rojas advised that, in 1994 and 1995 combined, 26 Height
Variation applications were submitted to the Director for determination and that 7
of those 26 were appealed to the Planning Commission, which means that
approximately 27% of the total Height Variation applications were considered by
the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Alberio recalled the feeling of the previous Planning Commission,
on which he served, that the residents should have a forum to express any
doubts they might have as to Staff's power to decide cases.
Chairman Clark pointed out that the Staff time and the appeal costs are
eliminated with the Planning Commission hearing appeals of the Director's
decisions and that the initial Staff work would increase if the Planning
Commission were to consider all Height Modification applications.
Senior Planner Rojas advised that the current Height Variation analysis is very
complex and that, other than noticing and the Staff Reports, the amount of time
spent by Staff would not change that much
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
With the exception of Commissioner Ng, the Planning Commission agreed to
recommend that all Height Modification applications shall be considered by the
Commission
Commissioner Ng related her disagreement with making such a recommendation
and she stated her opinion that the Director should make determinations on
Height Modification applications.
Paragraph 9. No. CI d, Commissioner Alberio suggested that the silhouette
parameters should be added to the Guidelines. Specifically, that the silhouette
remain in tact until appeal periods have been exhausted
Senior Planner Rojas advised that there is much more detail about the
construction of silhouettes in the Guidelines He verified that the parameters for
silhouettes will be added to the Guidelines.
MOTION Chairman Clark moved to eliminate the sub -criteria language
pertaining to the approval of Height Modification applications as indicated and to
recommend that all Height Modification applications shall be considered by the
Planning Commission The motion was seconded by Commissioner Whiteneack
and passed by majority roll call vote (5-1) as follows.
Ayes.
Alberio, Vannorsdall, Cartwright, Whiteneck and
Chairman Clark.
Noes.
Commissioner Ng
Abstain
None.
Absent:
Franklin
Noting his concern over the above recommendation, Commissioner Cartwright
stated his assumption that the previous Planning Commission knew what they
were doing.
Page 8
Paragraph 5. No. CUM), Senior Planner Rojas advised that the proposed
language would help situations on "upside down" houses to afford view protection
for residents who have the living room on the upper story
Paragraph 8. No. Cleft), Senior Planner Rojas explained that the finding about
privacy was added here.
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
•
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Staff
None
Commission
None.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE
None
ADJOURNMENT
At 8.30 P M the meeting was formally adjourned to a Regular Meeting on
Tuesday, August 27, 1996, 7 00 P.M , at Hesse Park
Planning Commission
August 19, 1996
10