PC MINS 19960203APPROVED
3/12/96
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3, 1996
The meeting was called to order at 9.10 A M by Chairman Clark at the Wayfarers
Chapel Site, 5755 Palos Verdes Drive South.
PRESENT- Commissioners Cartwright, Franklin, Ng, Whiteneck, Vice Chair
Vannorsdall, and Chairman Clark
ABSENT- Commissioner Alberio, (excused)
Also present were Associate Planner Silverman, City Geotechnical Consultant Art
Keene, and Recording Secretary Drasco.
Representing the Chapel were Reverend Yenetchi, Member of the Board of Managers
Victor Bothmann, Building and Grounds Engineer Chuck Batelle, and Architect Dean
Andrews
Local residents present were Bill Griffin, Joan Wright, Corinne Gerrard, Mike Shiles,
Sharon Hegetsweiler, Lois Larue, Dave Ruth, and Bill Ruth
Vice Chair Vannorsdall moved to accept the agenda, as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Cartwright. Approved, (7-0).
CONSENT CALENDAR: (NO ITEMS)
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff.
Copies of Title 15, including the Landslide Moratorium Exception section were made
available to the Commissioners
Commission- NONE
CONTINUED BUSINESS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 185, VARIANCE NO. 388, GRADING
PERMIT NO. 1793, AND ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO. 676-,
Wayfarers Chapel, 5755 Palos Verdes South (TS)
After a short discussion in the Chapel (due to the heavy rain) led by Chairman Clark,
describing how the tour/onsite meeting would proceed, the group walked outside to the
proposed building site
Associate Planner Silverman showed the approximate location of the proposed two-
story Visitor Center, indicating that the geology report submitted by the applicant's
geologist had been approved by the City's Geotechnical Consultant
Commissioner Franklin expressed concern about building to the property line.
Associate Planner Silverman explained that there was a 15' setback requirement but a
Variance, if approved, would allow building in the setback area She went on to
explain that the Chapel had stated that Mr. Jim York, the adjacent property owner, had
given his verbal approval for the Chapel to build to the property line The Planning
Commission had suggested that the Chapel obtain written permission from Jim York,
but he had been advised not to provide written permission. She listed the findings for a
Variance and said that Staff felt the findings could be met
At the Commission's request, the architect Mr. Dean Andrews, 1064 Upland Avenue,
San Pedro, CA 90732, walked off the perimeters of the building in the parking lot.
To Chairman Clark's query as to the choice of the building site, Mr Andrews replied
that three locations were considered but that, the other two being were rejected
because the land was not as stable in those locations, nor were as conducive to traffic
circulation on the property
Art Keene was asked his opinion regarding the stability of the land and he said that the
selected location was stable and the other two were not When asked about the safety
factor of the slope at the proposed building site, he said it was greater than 1 5
Mr. Dave Ruth, 4 Thyme Place, Rancho Palos Verdes, asked about the purpose of the
building
Chairman Clark said that it was to be a Visitors Center to replace the previous one
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3,1996
PAGE 2
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Mr. Bill Griffin, 5 Ginger Root Lane, Rancho Palos Verdes, asked if the proposed
building would be built into the bank at the rear of the proposed building site
Mr Andrews said it would not but that a new retaining wall would be built
Ms Corinne Gerrard, 22 Narcissa, Rancho Palos Verdes, asked the height of the
proposed building, expressing her concern that the top of the Visitor Center would be
visible from the homes above.
Mr. Andrews said the rooftop would not be visible because of the height of the hill was
substantially higher than the height of the roof.
Mr. Bill Ruth, 4 Thyme Place, Rancho Palos Verdes, asked if outdoor weddings would
be held at the amphitheater, stating that currently he could hear bells from the Chapel
and another nearby church, which he thought was nice, but he did not want to hear the
noise from a crowd
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, stated that she had lived in her nearby house for 33
years. She described her son's credentials as a geologist, indicating that he had told
her that he did not think it was a good idea to build on the Wayfarers Chapel property
She then asked who the City Geologist was
Chairman Clark, Art Keene and Associate Planner Silverman said there were three
Dr. Perry Ehlig, Dale Hinkle and Art Keene
Associate Planner Silverman explained that there is a 20' wide sewer easement
abutting the property line on the adjacent property which could not be built on anyway,
so effectively there would be a setback area next to the new building.
At Vice Chair Vannorsdall's suggestion, the group moved down the parking lot toward
the street to view one of the alternative building saes
Associate Planner Silverman pointed out that the site was preferred by the local
residents, but not by the Chapel, because of the difficult access from that site up the
steep hill to the Chapel.
Next, the group walked to the amphitheater area near where the previous Visitor Center
had been located
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3, 11996
PAGE 3
During the discussion at this site, it was revealed that the number of permanent seats
(simple benches) to replace the capacity of about 100 people sitting on the grass
(since this arrangement was difficult for the elderly) had been reduced from 160 to 100.
In addition, no exterior lighting and no amplified sound were to be allowed, and there
might be a small stage near the amphitheater area in front of the sidewalk. It was
clarified that temporary seating on the gravel area might still be brought in (as had
been done in the past at Easter) for a total capacity of about 200 people
Reverend Yenetchi stated that he believed the sound from the amphitheater might
actually be less of a problem than in the past for the residents above the Chapel since
the building had been removed because previously the sound had bounced off the
building and traveled up the hill
Mr. Bill Ruth asked what type of services would be held at the amphitheater area
Associate Planner Silverman replied that there would be baptisms, memorials, as well
as weddings, and other religious ceremonies, including Christmas and Easter services
Mr Ruth asked if permission to lift the restriction on lights and amplified sound could be
requested by the Chapel at a later time.
Chairman Clark clarified that they would have to make another application to change
the Conditions of Approval, if the City granted the Conditional Use Permit
Mr Ruth and Ms. Gerrard asked about other specific restrictions which were to be
placed on use of the amphitheater area, including sound decibel levels
Associate Planner Silverman said that she had not brought the entire project file with
her, but they could call her at the office and she would provide the details
A discussion ensued following Commissioner Whiteneck's raising the issue of security
measures which revealed that there had been numerous calls to the Sheriff by several
residents and that there had been recent improvements to the Chapel's security
system, including motion sensitive lights, and that the Chapel had hired a security
company to drive through the property regularly
Ms. Gerrard described her calls to the Sheriff and expressed concern not only for the
security of the Chapel but also for the safety of people walking up the hill from the
Chapel toward the residences above to admire the view. She was concerned that
someone would be hurt or killed on the steep slope and that the Homeowners
Association would be held liable.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3,1996
PAGE 4
Lois Larue said that she did not see that the new structure was a replacement She
believed the purpose of the new building was going to be different than what she had
understood the purpose was of the previous structure
The group then reassembled in the Chapel for final comments
Vice Chair Vannorsdall asked Mr Andrews, the project architect, if he could provide the
Commission with a drawing of the exterior of the proposed building
Mr Andrews said he could provide this and Associate Planner Silverman said that she
would make sure that the Commissioners received the drawing at the next hearing
Vice Chair Vannorsdall read from minutes of August 8, 1995 Planning Commission
meeting and questioned Art Keene's seemingly contradictory statements in which he
said that the land was not moving but then said that the movement was being improved
by dewatering wells
Mr Keene explained that dewatering wells were not needed in order for this particular
site to remain stable, but that they were used for stabilization in other areas
Vice Chair Vannorsdall asked if there would be caissons included in the construction of
the new building and Mr Andrews and Mr. Keene said that they were not needed
Commissioner Cartwright asked if the Chapel had requested an extension because
they have not been able to meet with neighbors or because there were new issues to
discuss and, if the latter was the case, what were the new issues
Mr Victor Bothmann explained that the son of the original architect, Eric Wright, who
had worked with his father on the Chapel, had expressed an interest in the project and
was going to draw some sketches, hoping to maintain the original feeling of the Chapel
Mr Bothmann further stated that the Executive Board of Managers was meeting with
Mr. Wright the last weekend in February He also mentioned that the neighbors had
been invited to a meeting but only Ms Gerrard had attended
Commissioner Franklin asked if the Commission could be provided, at the next
meeting, a map showing the location of the building in the parking lot, indicating the
property lines, the easement, etc.
Mr Bill Ruth asked if there were to be rest rooms and kitchens in the new building and,
if so, would a holding tank be required
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3,1996
PAGE 5
Mr. Andrews said that there would be sewage pump to the pressurized line at Palos
Verdes Drive South He added that he had met with the County Sanitation District who
informed him that there was a sewer line on the other side of the property that would
become active in the future for use from Narcissa to Palos Verdes Drive South and that
the Chapel would be included at that time.
Ms. Gerrard asked if there would be a kitchen.
Mr Andrews said there would be at least sink.
Ms. Gerrard stated that she agreed with Lois Larue that this proposed building would
not be a replacement She stated that the previous one story structure with the
colonnade was compatible with the topography of the beautiful site She was also
concerned about the stability of the land at the proposed building site and the security
and noise issues for the neighbors above. Ms. Gerrard indicated that she had spoken
with Eric Wright also and was pleased that the Chapel was working with him In
reference to the meeting with the neighbors, she explained that there was a problem
with the mailing and she was called the night before and, therefore, was the only
neighbor who attended
Mr Griffin clarified that he was concerned only about the landslide and saving
residents' homes and that he did not mind what the Chapel did otherwise
Chairman Clark stated that the meeting was to include a tour of the residential
properties above the Chapel but that the bad weather made this unfeasible and that the
tour would be rescheduled.
Commissioner Ng asked if she could see the original plans for the Chapel
Chairman Clark asked if she meant the plans from 1949 and she said yes
Associate Planner said that there was a copy at City Hall that she could review
Commissioner Ng asked if she could have a copy
Mr Chuck Batelle said that there were a few copies at the Chapel
Chairman Clark moved to continue the public hearing to March 12, 1996,
seconded by Commissioner Cartwright. Approved (7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS. (NO ITEMS)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3,1996
PAGE 6
NEW BUSINESS. (NO ITEMS)
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS:
Staff NONE
Commission NONE
COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)* NONE
ADJOURNMENT.
Commissioner Cartwright moved to adjourn to the next regularly scheduled meeting on
Tuesday, February 13, 1996, at 7.00 P M Hesse Park.
The meeting was duly adjourned at 10 25 A.M.
MIUSERSUACKIDIWPWIN60NINUTESl96PCMN2 3
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
ADJOURNED MEETING
FEBRUARY 3,1996
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