PC MINS 19950725APPROVED
8/8/95
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
July 25, 1995
The meeting was called to order at 7:01 P.M. by Chairman Mowlds
at the Hesse Park Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
The Pledge of Allegiance followed, led by Commissioner
Vannorsdall.
PRESENT: Commissioners Alberio, Ferraro, Vannorsdall, Wang,
Whiteneck, Vice Chair Hayes, and Chairman Mowlds.
ABSENT: None
Also present were Planning Administrator Petru, Associate
Planners Silverman and Jerex, and Recording Secretary Drasco.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Chairman Alberio moved to approve the agenda, as presented,
seconded by Commissiofier Ferraro. Approved, (7-0).
COMMUNICATIONS
Staff: None
Commission•
Commissioner Alberio distributed an article from the Los Angeles
Times newspaper regarding the El Sereno earthslide.
APPROVAL OF CONSENT CALENDAR
I
1. MINUTES OF JUNE 27, 1995
Commissioner Wang noted that on Page 3, Paragraph 7, Line 4, the
word "of" should be deleted.
Vice Chair Hayes stated that on Page 6, Paragraph 11, Line 1,
"Chairman Hayes" should be replaced with "Vice Chair Hayes".
Vice Chair Hayes moved to accept the Minutes of June 27, 1995, as
amended, seconded by Commissioner Alberio. Approved, (6-0-1),
with commissioner Vannorsdall abstaining, as he was not present
at the June 27, 1995 meeting.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 185 VARIANCE NO. 388 GRADING PERMIT
NO. 1793, AND ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO. 676; Wayfarers
Chapel, 5755 Palos Verdes Drive South. (TS)
The Commission agreed to hear additional public testimony and
then adjourn to the project site on August 2, 1995.
Mr. Dean Andrews, (applicant and project architect), 10664
Upland, San Pedro, CA 90732. Mr. Andrews stated that, since the
last meeting, he had met with Keith Ehlert, Wayfarers Chapel's
geologist. In addition, Mr. Andrews indicated that he had
provided drawings to the City's geologist, Dale Hinkle, and
discussed the project with him.
Ms. Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.
Larue said that she was pleased that there was to be a meeting at
the site and asked which City geologist would be present.
Planning Administrator Petru replied that two geologists
representing the City would be present, Art Keene and Dale
Hinkle.
Commissioner Ferraro asked for confirmation of the time of the
day of the meeting, because the agenda and another document had
indicated different times. Planning Administrator clarified that
the meeting would be at 3:30 P.M.
Commissioner Alberio moved to adjourn to the Wayfarer Chapel site
for an adjourned meeting on August 2, 1995, at 3:30 P.M.,
seconded .by Commissioner Whiteneck. Approved, (7-0).
Chairman Mowlds remarked that he had listened to the tape of the
July 11, 1995 meeting and that he would be participating in the
review of this item.
PUBLIC HEARINGS (NO ITEMS)
NEW BUSINESS
3. STREET VACATION; Palos Verdes Land Holdings Company, Paseo
del Mar public right-of-way in Subregion 7. (CP)
Commissioner Ferraro recused herself from considering this item
and left the dais.
Chairman Mowlds explained that only the street vacation itself
was to be discussed, not the merits of the Ocean Trails project.
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JULY 25, 1995
PAGE 2
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Planning Administrator Petru added that the Commission was only
to determine if the proposed Street Vacation was consistent with
the goals and policies of the General Plan and Coastal Specific
Plan.
Ms. Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, Palos Verdes. Ms. Larue
was strongly opposed to the street vacation, stating that it was
not in conformance with the Coastal Specific Plan or any other
City land use document. She stated that this road was needed for
access to San Pedro and that it should not be vacated.
Chairman Mowlds asked for comments from the Commission and there
were none.
Chairman Alberio moved to forward a finding of consistency to the
City council, seconded by Commissioner Wang. Approved, (6-0-1),
with commissioner Ferraro abstaining.
Planning Administrator stated that P.C. Resolution 95-29 would be
signed that evening and that there was no opportunity for appeal
because the item was being forwarded directly to the City
Council.
Commissioner Ferraro returned to the dais.
4. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 33 - REV J, GRADING PERMIT NO.
1803; Wen -Jen Lee, 1 Burrell Lane. (DJ)
Associate Planner Jerex presented the Staff Report, explaining
that the original footprint for a residence on this lot was
approved as part of this tract in 1978 and had been modified
three times since then. She stated that the last approval, in
1989, allowed a structure 4,557.5 square feet in size. However,
the proposed home would be 4,639 square feet in size.
Chairman Mowlds asked for further explanation.
Associate Planner Jerex explained that a Conditional Use Permit
was established for the tract with specific footprints for each
home and that, each time a property owner wanted to modify the
footprint, a revision to the original Conditional Use Permit was
required. She added that most of the flat portion of this
particular lot was being used for a tennis court. Ms. Jerex
noted that a map provided to the Commission illustrated both the
original footprint, which was highlighted in yellow, and the
proposed one.
Commissioner Alberio asked how the previously approved footprint
sizes compared with this proposed revision.
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JULY 25, 1995
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Associate Planner Jerex replied that the
footprint was the largest home proposed
largest was approved in 1987. The other
than these two.
currently proposed
and that the second
footprints were smaller
A discussion between Chairman Mowlds, Commissioner Alberio and
Associate Planner Jerex revealed that the grading of 1,720 cubic
yards was substantial, but was necessary because the developable
area was small compared to the total square footage of the lot.
In addition, the 16' ridgeline required additional grading to
create a split-level building pad. It was also determined that a
geology report would not be required unless the Commission
approved the project.
Chairman Mowlds observed that placement of the house and the
tennis court affected the views from surrounding properties as
well.
Associate Planner Jerex agreed and added that the proposed
location of the home and tennis court allowed the adjacent
homeowner to retain his view.
Mr. Richard Gould (applicant's architect), 3480 Torrance
Boulevard, Torrance, CA 90501. Mr. Gould stated that he had
worked with Staff for some time to determine an acceptable plan.
He indicated that Mr. Lee, the property owner, had requested that
a 1' setback be permitted, rather than a 5' setback for the
tennis court from the side property line, so that he might
install a swale and maintain a portion of the park adjacent to
his property which was not being tended by the City.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked the distance from the park fence
to Mr. Lee's property line.
Mr. Gould replied that he did not have a survey, but he estimated
that there was approximately six to seven feet of slope, that was
covered with weeds, between the property and the fence.
Commissioner Vannorsdall was concerned about safety for children
playing in the park in regard to the proposed 10' high retaining
wall on the property and suggested that there should be a guard
rail to keep them from toppling over the wall.
Mr. Gould explained that there was an 18" garden wall proposed
along the side property line. However, the only large wall to be
built was actually part of the house, not a separate 10' high
retaining wall. Therefore, Mr. Gould felt that there would be no
safety hazard.
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JULY 25, 1995
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Commissioner Mowlds suggested that the 51 setback would provide
more room to construct the suggested swale.
Mr. Gould indicated that the smaller 11 setback would also
provide more useable driveway area and a better turning radius
into the garage.
Chairman Mowlds questioned allowing a 11 setback and suspected
that, with the exception of the Portuguese Bend Club, this was
not common in the City, even for a tennis court.
A discussion ensued between Commissioner Alberio, Mr. Gould, and
Planning Administrator Petru, in which it was determined that the
property was adjacent to, but outside, the Landslide moratorium
Area. commissioner Alberio was concerned ,about the City's
liability, should there be any earth movement on this lot.
Commissioner Alberio, Commissioner Vannorsdall, and Mr. Gould
discussed the depth of the bedrock and the placement of the
caissons. Mr. Gould indicated that the bedrock was fairly close
to the surface and, because the house would be built into the
slope of the land, it would be even more stable then if the fill
was allowed to remain.
Commissioner Alberio suggested that a hold harmless statement be
required in the conditions of approval for the project.
Commissioner Wang also wanted to make sure that the City was
protected.
Commissioner Mowlds suggested that the Commission make decisions
on some of the other elements of the project and then discuss the
City's liability.
A straw vote was taken on the following issues:
Footprint: Approved, (7-0).
Sidevard Setback of 11: Denied, (6-1), with commissioner
Whiteneck dissenting.
Chairman Mowlds suggested that the hold harmless statement be
discussed at this time.
Commissioner Whiteneck asked if this kind of condition was
standard. Planning Administrator replied that it was not, except
in two instances: 1) for projects in the Landslide Moratorium
Area and 2) for projects requiring after -the -fact building
permits. She stated that including a hold harmless condition for
the subject property would set a precedent.
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JULY 25, 1995
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Commissioner Whiteneck was not concerned with setting a precedent
as much as he was with whether or not the building would actually
be stable on the slope. He believed that severe winter storms,
such as the ones this past season, could cause problems, and he
believed it was important to protect the City from liability.
Vice Chair Hayes stated that she felt that requiring a hold
harmless statement would be punitive to the applicant because the
property was not in the Landslide Moratorium Area.
Chairman Mowlds cited the situation in Palos Verdes Estates at
Bluff Cove, where a house had slipped over the edge of the
coastal cliff, and stated that probably Palos Verdes Estates
wished that a hold harmless statement had been obtained, as the
City was held liable for $20,000,000 in damages. He stated that
if the land failed on the subject property, caissons would be of
no value and that they would slide down the slope with the house.
The Chairman believed it was imperative that a hold harmless
statement be included in the conditions of approval and suggested
that the City Attorney be consulted and the conditions be
rewritten and brought back at the next meeting.
Chairman Mowlds continued with the straw vote on one more issue:
Grading of 1720 cubic yards: Approved, (7-0), as long as there
was a hold harmless statement.
Commissioner Alberio moved to continue the item to August 22,
1995, with input from the City Attorney regarding the conditions
of approval.
Commissioner Mowlds asked if this continuance was acceptable to
the applicant and Mr. Gould said that it was.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Whiteneck and Approved,
(7-0).
5. Review of a draft letter recommending that City Council
review payment of Appeal fees in conjunction with a Fee
Waiver Request. (CP)
Planning Administrator explained that this subject was initially
raised by the Commission at the June 27, 1995 meeting. It was
placed on the agenda and discussed at the July 11, 1995 meeting.
A draft letter regarding whether or not an appeal fee should be
presented (but held) in conjunction with a Fee Waiver Request,
was presented to the commission in the July 25, 1995 agenda
packet for further discussion at tonight's meeting. Ms. Petru
stated that a second, related topic was raised at the July 11,
1995 meeting, regarding the possibility of a partial refund to
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JULY 25, 1995
PAGE 6
the applicant when a appeal resulted in a redesign and ultimate
approval of the project. She believed that it was appropriate to
postpone this second subject until the Development Code Revisions'
were reviewed again by the Planning commission.
Chairman Mowlds asked the Commission for comments.
Commissioner Alberio stated that this request was not intended to
usurp the authority of the Council, but merely to point out that
it seemed that the current procedure did not conform to the Code.
Chairman Mowlds stated that the Commission and Committee Handbook
listed the duties of each body, stating that the Planning
Commission's purview was to review planning and zoning issues.
He did not feel that the Commission should advise the City
Council on matters outside its jurisdiction and said that he
would not sign the letter.
Vice Chair Hayes expressed her opinion that the Commission should
not forward the letter to the City Council.
Commissioner Alberio reiterated that he did not believe that the
Commission was telling the Council how to do their job, but saw
the letter simply as a recommendation.
Vice Chair Hayes noted that any city resident could suggest a
change in the fee collection procedure as a private citizen, but
she did not feel it was appropriate for the commission to make
such a recommendation.
Chairman Mowlds asked for the opinion of the other members of the
commission.
Commissioner Wang said that she would be willing to sign the
letter and let the Council decide if they wished to review the
current procedure.
Commissioner Vannorsdall remarked that, since he was not present
at the previous Commission meetings when this topic was
discussed, he had no comments.
Commissioner Whiteneck said that he was undecided and needed
further time for consideration.
Commissioner Ferraro stated that she preferred that the letter
not be sent because she did not feel that the issue was within
the Commission's purview. She concurred with Vice Chair Hayes
that it would be appropriate for a private citizen to raise the
question.
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Vice Chair Hayes moved to table the item and take no action,
seconded by Commissioner Ferraro.
The motion passed (5-2) by the following roll call vote:
AYES: COMMISSIONERS FERRARO, VANNORSDALL, WHITENECR, VICE
CHAIR HAYES, AND CHAIRMAN MOWLDS
NOES: COMMISSIONERS ALBERIO AND WANG
Commissioner Alberio noted that he felt the recommendation was
valid, and that it was not his intent to intrude into matters
that were only within the Council's purview.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
Staff:
6. Pre -Agenda for the regular Planning Commission meeting of
Tuesday, August 8, 1995.
commission:
Commissioner Ferraro asked to be excused from the August 22, 1995
meeting because she would be out of town.
COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items):
Ms. Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, commented on the storm
drains which caused the landslide in Bluff Cove in Palos Verdes
Estates. She also stated that the Valley View Graben is the
upper boundary of the ancient Portuguese Bend Landslide, the
Commissioner Handbook is full of errors, and the Alta Mira
Drainage Project EIR is full of inaccurate statements.
ADJOURNMENT
Vice Chair Hayes moved to adjourn, seconded by Commissioner Wang.
The motion carried, (7-0), and the meeting was duly adjourned at
8:02 P.M. to an Adjourned Meeting at 3:30 P.M. on August 2, 1995,
at Wayfarers Chapel, 5755 Palos Verdes Drive South.
The next regular meeting of the Planning Commission would be on
August 8, 1995.
(A.JDMINAO-MIN7.25)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
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