PC MINS 19950124APPROVED
v 3/14/95
15101
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
January 24, 1995
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M., by Chairman Mowlds
at the Hesse Park Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
The Pledge of Allegiance followed, led by Chairman Mowlds.
PRESENT: Commissioners Alberio, Ferraro, Vannorsdall, Wang,
Whiteneck, Vice Chairman Hayes, and Chairman Mowlds.
Also present were Director of Planning, Building and Code
Enforcement/Planning Commission Secretary Bernard, Planning
Administrator Petru, Senior Planner Rojas, Assistant Planner de
Freitas, and Associate Planner Silverman.
COMMUNICATIONS
A. STAFF
Director/Secretary Bernard noted the following:
In lieu of Recording Secretary Drasco, Debbie Herrera would be
assisting in the recording of this meeting, and the Staff would
be handling roll call and formal business as required.
B. COMMISSION
Chairman Mowlds proposed that tonight's agenda be rearranged
whereas the NEW BUSINESS ITEM VIII. B., the FIVE YEAR CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM, would be reviewed first in order to
accommodate the Public Works' Department during this inclement
weather, followed by the PUBLIC HEARING ITEM VII. A., COASTAL
PERMIT NO. 77 - REVISION, GRADING PERMIT NO. 1315 - REVISION,
followed by CONTINUED BUSINESS ITEM VI. A., CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT NO. 182 SIGN PERMIT NO 720 ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO
667, followed by NEW BUSINESS ITEM VIII. A., SIGN PERMIT NO. 665,
followed by CONTINUED BUSINESS ITEM VI. B., PROPOSED AMENDMENTS
TO TITLE 16 & 17 OF THE CITY'S MUNICIPAL CODE (DEVELOPMENT CODE
REVISIONS).
Commissioner Alberio moved to accept the changes, seconded by
Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (7-0).
NEW BUSINESS
B. FIVE YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PROGRAM; Citywide, City
of Rancho Palos Verdes. (TS)
Commissioner Alberio moved to waive reading of the Staff Report,
seconded by Commissioner Wang. Approved, (7-0).
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6, 0
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to accept Staff's recommendation,
seconded by Commissioner Ferraro. Approved, (7-0).
Director/Secretary Bernard noted that by accepting the Staff's
recommendation, the Planning Commission was adopting P.C.
Resolution 95-02 indicating that the Planning Commission found
that the City's Conceptual Five -Year Capital Improvements Program
was consistent with the goals and policies of the General Plan
and that Staff would be forwarding that recommendation to the
City Council for consideration at their next meeting on February
7, 1995.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. COASTAL PERMIT NO. 77 - REVISION, GRADING PERMIT NO.
1315 - REVISION; Portuguese Bend Club,, Gail Lovrich
(General Manager), 104 Spindrift Drive. (FF)
Commissioner Alberio moved to waive the Staff Report, seconded by
Commissioner Ferraro. Approved (7-0).
Assistant Planner de Freitas stated Staff's recommendation had
been modified to include the City Attorney's suggestion that
since the original Negative Declaration adopted for this project
in 1989 could not be used for an amendment to the project, an
additional .initial study and a new Negative Declaration would
have to be prepared and adopted in order to move forward with
this project.
Chairman Mowlds inquired as to how long that would take.
Director/Secretary Bernard's responded that there would be a
minimum circulation period of 21 days and the earliest that this
item could be placed on a Planning Commission agenda would be
February 28, 1995. However, as the Staff Report stated, there
was an Emergency Grading Permit which would allow immediate
action, as necessary, as a result of the heavy rain storms and
that Staff would be working with the Portuguese Bend Club to
clarify the specifications for emergency grading.
Chairman Mowlds asked if this issue should be continued until the
end of the circulation period, and Director/Secretary Bernard
responded that it might be useful to have some discussion and
direction to Staff for preparation of the Negative Declaration.
In response to Commissioner Alberio's inquiry as to why a new
Negative Declaration was necessary, Assistant Planner de Freitas
replied that it was to address any possible new impacts, although
none were anticipated. He added that Dr. Perry Ehlig, the City's
consulting geologist, was present to answer questions.
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JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 2
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Commissioner Alberio inquired how the impact of the current rain
storms would affect the ongoing repair work.
Director/Secretary Bernard explained that an emergency grading
permit had been in effect since last summer, related to the
effects of previous year's rain storms, not the current ones, as
well as the effects of a landslide three years ago which pushed
the land down toward the Portuguese Bend Club. Mr. Bernard added
that the City was required to follow CEQA guidelines in granting
long-term approval.
Commissioner Whiteneck inquired as to whether this long-term
approval would lead to any final action to protect the residents
from any further land movement.
Secretary Bernard answered that in terms of the immediate impact,
this approval would allow the residents to protect themselves.
For a long-term solution, the City was currently involved with
dewatering wells and a number of other proposed RDA projects
regarding the long-term stabilization of the landslide.
Commissioner Whiteneck asked about the status of these projects
and Director/Secretary Bernard explained that they had not been
adopted or implemented, but are being considered by the
Redevelopment Agency and the City Council, with input from a
panel of experts.
Chairman Mowlds requested that Dr. Ehlig address the commission.
Dr. Perry Ehlig, Professor of Geology, Cal -State Los Angeles.
1560 Via Del Rey, South Pasadena. Dr. Ehlig explained the
process which caused land to slide down to the beach area,
disconnecting the original attachment between Seawall Drive and
Yacht Harbor Drive. He said that the purpose of the grading was
to prevent a buildup of earth on the west side of the Portuguese
Bend Club and that since about 1958 there had been periodic
grading in order to prevent the slide material from encroaching
upon the houses east of the landslide. He explained that from
1958 until the early 19801s, no grading permits were required and
grading was performed as necessary, and generally involved moving
dirt to the seaward side of the area and to the west. Dr. Ehlig
felt that the Homeowners Association should have the freedom once
again to perform grading when needed, without the need for a
hearing or permit revision each time.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Dr. Ehlig if the landslide had
always progressed towards the east and Dr. Ehlig replied that
whenever the ground built up on the east side of the landslide
next to the houses, it became like lava flow or like a glacier,
spreading in the direction of low ground.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 3
Commissioner Wang asked Dr. Ehlig how many houses were affected
currently and he said there were three.
Commissioner Alberio asked about the effects of the recent, heavy
rain and Dr. Ehlig replied that the slide had accelerated, but
only slightly. He noted that the land was saturated with water
at all times and that the recent rains had caused the water table
to rise.
Director/Secretary Bernard suggested that the Public Hearing be
opened and continued to a date uncertain, in order to provide
time to perform the Negative Declaration Initial Study and re -
notice the hearing.
Vice Chairman Hayes moved to Open the Public Hearing and Continue
to a date uncertain, seconded by Commissioner Alberio. Approved,
(7-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
A. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 182, SIGN PERMIT NO. 720,
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO. 667; Mr. and Mrs. William
Myers, 28103 Hawthorne Boulevard (Mobil). .(TS)
Planning Administrator Petru indicated that there were four
pieces of late correspondence, including a map showing the
location of Santona Drive in relation to subject property.
Associate Planner Silverman presented the Staff Report.
Chairman Mowlds called the applicant to the podium.
Mr. William Myers, Applicant, 28103 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho
Palos Verdes. Mr. Myers stated that his analysis indicated that
the revenue of the proposed convenience store would be less than
that the revenue from gasoline sales. Therefore, he felt that
the convenience store should be considered an auxiliary use to
the service station. He added that the addition of the
convenience store was necessary to remain competitive in today's
marketplace. Mr. Myers did not believe that substantially
reducing the square footage of the store was a reasonable
alternative, considering the expense of modifying the building
(including compliance with the American Disability Act
standards), coupled with new, extensive landscaping, which
included upgrades to the existing planters and relocation of the
fence to the property line. Mr. Myers also did not wish to
reduce the size of the propane tank, as this would reduce his
income.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 4
Mr. Myers then discussed the problems associated with the
installation of a block wall to secure the back parking area. He
felt that a solid wall would only further seclude the area and
encourage teenagers to gather there to drink or smoke. However,
he noted that he was not aware of any evidence that these types
of activities had taken place recently and mentioned that he was
proposing to install a chain link fence with wooden slats in it.
Mr. Myers then discussed problems with gating or chaining the
driveways. He said that the gates necessary to close each 25 -
foot wide driveway would be unsightly and hard to conceal during
normal business hours, and that chains would not be visible at
night. He added that light post with a motion detector or
adjustable timer could be installed at the back of the property,
with directional lighting aimed towards the back of the station
and away from the adjacent residents. Mr. Myers emphasized that
he would continue to be sensitive to the needs of the adjacent
residents.
Ms. Phyllis Peterson, 28067 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Ms. Peterson did not object to the additional gas pumps, but was
opposed to the convenience store and the sale of alcohol on the
property. In addition, she felt that the sale of automotive
products in a small area of the building was acceptable. Ms.
Peterson was in favor of maintaining the existing balance between
single family residences, apartments, condominiums and businesses
in the community, and felt that there was no need for two
convenience stores at the same intersection.
Ms. Shelby Jordan, 29208 Posey Way, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.
Jordan, a resident for 12 years and a frequent, satisfied
customer of the Mobil station, was in favor of the expansion of
the service station. However, she was concerned about the sale
of propane and thought that it should be carefully monitored.
Although Ms. Jordan was not opposed to the convenience store, she
would prefer that alcohol not be sold.
Mr. Gene Pledger, 6517 Certa Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Pledger informed the Commission that he had been a resident in
the neighborhood since 1967 and a customer at the Mobil station,
which he felt had been an asset to the community. He believed
that if Mr. Myers was not able to expand his station as proposed,
he might have to close the business. Mr. Pledger was concerned
about the sale of alcohol, since alcohol was already available
for purchase at the 7 -Eleven store across the street. He felt
that a convenience store at the Mobil station would improve the
current hazardous traffic condition created by left turns on
Granvia Altamira into the 7 -Eleven store.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 5
Mr. Ken Moore, 6344 Villa Rosa Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Moore stressed that consideration of this project should not be a
popularity contest, commenting that, as far as he knew, Mr. Myers
had been a very good neighbor. Mr. Moore said that he would like
to see the service station stay in business, as long as it did
not create a detriment to the surrounding community.
He was concerned with legal precedence in the state of California
and asked the Commission how much liability the City would assume
by approving the proposed project. He opined that, although the
Planning Commission could argue that the future environmental
impacts of the new land use could be mitigated and the City
Council could ignore the State Attorney General's Office, the
residents of Rancho Palos Verdes should not be exposed to
environmental danger caused by the City'knowingly approving an
project that exposed them to injuries resulting from
irresponsible or criminal actions. If legal action was taken, he
questioned the acceptable level of financial exposure for the
City and how much the City's insurance rates would increase. Mr.
Moore felt that several of the Planning Commissioners and City
Council Members were not concerned with individual or class
action lawsuits that may ultimately come down to a legal
interpretation of Municipal Code, but if injuries occurred on the
Mobil station property, those officials who had approved this
expansion would be answering to a different set of laws.
Mr. Moore noted that Vendome Liquor in Rolling Hills Estates had
a security gate across the entire store front when it was closed
because of the inventory of alcohol kept inside. He believed
that this was an indication that problems could also arise at the
Mobil station, if alcohol was allowed to be sold there.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if the 7 -Eleven was gated at night
and Mr. Moore stated that he didn't believe so.
Mrs. Nancy Moore, 6344 Villa Rosa Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Mrs. Moore pointed out that the City's Automotive Service Overlay
District did not mentioned the sale of alcohol as being allowed
at a service station, therefore, she requested that sale of
alcohol be denied at the Mobil station. She also asked that the
propane tank be denied because propane was very flammable and
produced noise and bad odors. Mrs. Moore believed the proposed
convenience store was too large, that the parking area and lights
should be minimized and that the air and water facility should be
at the front of the property, away from the adjacent residential
neighbors.
Commissioner Wang asked Staff about the sale of alcohol as it
related to the Automotive Service Overlay District.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 6
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Director/Secretary Bernard stated that Staff's research indicated
that there was no state law prohibiting alcohol sales in
residential districts. He added that the Planning Commission did
have the option to disallow alcohol sales through the conditions
of the Conditional Use Permit.
Ms. Mary Jane Thompson, 28043 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Ms. Thompson stated that she had been a resident for 32 years and
that she had provided the Commission with a map indicating the
location of the Mobil station and the 7 -Eleven in relationship to
Santona Drive. She noted that currently noise and odors from the
Mobil station funneled down to the residences on Santona Drive.
Ms. Thompson indicated that she had taken a petition around to 20
of the 21 homes on Santona Drive and that the primary objections
mentioned were to the sale of alcohol and the propane tank.
Mr. Thomas Thompson, 28043 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Mr. Thompson opposed the sale of alcoholic beverages and the
installation of the propane tank. He realized that State laws
regulated the dispensing of propane, but he was uncomfortable
with what he considered to be "a large bomb sitting above him" at
the Mobil station.
Ms. Beverly Ingram, 28037 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Ms. Ingram stated that she did not pretend to understand all the
regulations, but that she had chosen to live in a residential
area and requested that the Commission protect the quiet,
cleanliness and safety of her neighborhood.
Mr. William Glantz, 28070 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Mr. Glantz stated that his home is about 40 feet below the Mobil
station, and that when he bought his home the 7 -Eleven and the
Mobil station had not yet been built. He objected to the block
walls along the rear property lines, which have fallen down
repeatedly, and the lighting on the property, which he had tried
to screen with landscaping on his own property. He also
mentioned that a bottle recently thrown from the Mobil station
landed near him and his car, and that he was constantly picking
up litter from the station. Mr. Glantz recognized that the City
had a fiduciary responsibility to raise revenues, but he hoped
the citizen's opposition to the convenience store would be
considered.
Mr. William E. Haynes, 28208 Ridgefern Court, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Mr. Haynes pointed out that, although he was a strong
supporter of free enterprise and competition in business, there
are basic principles that any business should follow if it's
trying to improve itself. A business should provide for the
needs to the community, provide remedies for public problems, and
reduce the costs of services. Mr. Haynes stated that when a
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 7
business owner does these things, they get more customers and
their business prospers. In the case of the convenience store,
he suggested that rather than providing a better service to the
community, Mr. Myers was providing a redundant service, in light
of the 7 -Eleven across the street and the other grocery stores in
the area that sell alcohol.
Rather than providing remedies to public problems, Mr. Haynes
felt that the proposed project would increase problems in the
area. As far as reducing costs of services, he noted that in the
seventeen years that he has lived in the community, he had never
bought a gallon of gasoline from Mr. Myers, because his prices
are 5 to 20 cents a gallon higher than at the Arco station. Mr.
Haynes felt that Mr. Myers should become more competitive with
his prices and not deteriorate the neighborhood by adding another
liquor stores.
Mr. J.D. Greene ,'28041 South Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Mr. Greene stated that he was the owner of the 7 -Eleven
store at the corner of Grandvia Altamira and Hawthorne Boulevard.
He reminded the Commission that he spoke at the previous hearing,
where he gave the Commission a letter voicing his objections to
the proposed expansion. He wanted to reiterate that the main
reason he objected to the convenience store was that it would
adversely impact his business, to such an extent that he would
be forced out of business. He did not feel that there was enough
business in this area for two convenience stores. He also
mentioned that his business had declined more than 10 percent
within the last year, and that the business was down more than 20
percent in the month of January 1995. If Mr. Myers' store was
reduced to four or five hundred square feet in size, Mr. Greene
did not think that it would serve the community to have two
unprofitable stores.
Commissioner Ferraro asked Mr. Greene what percentage of the 7 -
Eleven sales area was dedicated to the sale of beer and wine. Mr.
Greene replied that he was not sure of the amount of sales areas,
but indicated that the sale of alcohol accounted for about 10
percent of his total business.
Commissioner Ferraro reported that she has counted the frozen or
refrigerated lockers at the 7 -Eleven, and estimated that it
accounted for about 6 percent of the store space.
Mr. Greene said that he would guess that about 5 percent of the
total 2,100 square feet of the 7 -Eleven store was devoted to the
display and sale of beer and wine.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Mr. Greene if he had ever
considered selling hard liquor. Mr. Greene said that he had not.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 8
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked if he would consider it, if the
convenience store was approved at the Mobil station. Mr. Greene
said that he might consider it, if hard liquor was being sold at
the Mobil, in order to be competitive.
A discussion between commissioner Wang and Mr. Greene revealed
that the 7 -Eleven store shared the first floor of the building
with other retail stores and second floor was devoted to
commercial offices.
Mr. Carl Muchnick, 6307 Rio Linda Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Mr. Muchnick explained that he was not notified about the
proposed changes at the Mobil station. He was told by Staff
that, according to the law, only residents within 500 feet of the
subject property must be notified in writing of the public
hearing and the person who informed him of the meeting lived
further away from the station than he did. Mr. Muchnick
indicated that he had attended the last hearing, but there was a
discussion regarding horses that went on for hours, and he had to
leave because his wife was ill.
Mr. Muchnick objected to the proposed convenience store, since it
would result in traffic problems, additional lighting and alcohol
sales. He felt that the addition of the convenience store was
being proposed only to increase the landowner's business, with no
regard for the needs of the community. He felt that if the
owner/operator charged reasonable gasoline prices, the business
would probably succeed without the convenience store. Mr.
Muchnick also felt that there was not enough business to support
both the 7 -Eleven and the Mobil station convenience store, and
that one of the two businesses would fail.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Staff if notice of the public
hearing had been published in the Palos Verdes Peninsula News and
Associate Planner Silverman indicated that it had.
Dorothy MacLellan, 6611 Monera, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.
MacLellan indicated that she had lived in the neighborhood since
1962 and that she had been opposed to the 7 -Eleven store from the
beginning because it had been a haven for drug users and dealers.
She pointed out that of the 300 names on the petition supporting
the project, less than five percent of the signers lived in the
immediate neighborhood, and most lived in other cities. In
addition, Ms. MacLellan believed that the petition did not
explain the full extent of the project and did not mention the
sale of alcohol or propane. She went on to state that she knew
of at least one signer who would not have given his approval had
he known that these two activities were being proposed.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 9
A. D. MacLellan, 6611 Monera, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr. MacLellan
explained that when he and his family moved to the neighborhood
in 1962, the area was controlled by the County and that the City
of Rancho Palos Verdes was formed in order to provide for local
control. He was dismayed to find that the concerns of the local
residents were again being disregarded, but in this case by the
City itself. Mr. MacLellan objected to another convenience store
across the street from an existing one, as well as the
possibility of the sale of hard liquor, due to the impending
closure of Vendome Liquor. In addition, he did not feel that the
proposed changes at the Mobil station complied with the intent of
the Automotive service Overlay District.
Les LaFernara, 28117 Ellas Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
LaFernara stated that the first notice for this project made no
mention of the fact that Vendome Liquor was closing and that Mr.
Myers was going to take over that liquor license. He felt that
the Planning Commission had been selective about the information
furnished being furnished to the public. Mr. LaFernarals main
concern was that the City could be sued for millions of dollars
if an accident occurred when someone was exiting the Mobil
station onto Hawthorne Boulevard and indicated that cars on
Hawthorne Boulevard are usually traveling about 55 miles per
hour. He asked the commission to give this possibility some
serious thought.
Chairman Mowlds said that Mr. LaFernara had evidently heard a
rumor that Vendome Liquor was moving into the Mobil station, yet
the applicant had indicated earlier during his testimony that
this was not true. Mr. Mowlds asked Mr. LaFernara he had
evidence that the commission was not aware of. Mr. LaFernara
said that he had only heard a rumor that Vendome Liquor was
closing and that their license was going to be purchased by the
applicant.
Chairman Mowlds called for the applicant for rebuttal.
Mr. William Myers: Mr. Myers reiterated that he felt he had been
a good neighbor during the last 16 years he had operated the
Mobil station and had tried to address problems as they arose.
He said that it appeared that the neighbors were concerned that
the proposed changes to the station would bring crime into the
area. Mr. Myers pointed out that he felt not only a
responsibility to the community, but also to his employees, and
if the project was approved, he planned to install security
cameras in the convenience store, in addition to the City's
requirement that there be at least two employees until 11:00 P.M.
when the station closed.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 10
Mr. Myers explained that propane was an alternate fuel and was
still used in many vehicles, as well as for barbecues. He added
that it was not common for propane tanks to explode and that he
was proposing a relatively small tank, depending on the
regulations of the Fire Department. He assured the Commission
that he had attempted to keep the surrounding areas free of
litter and would continue to do so, not only on the service
station, but also behind the fence.
Commissioner Vannorsdall asked Mr. Myers about the rumor
regarding the closure of Vendome Liquor and the liquor license
being purchased by Mr. Myers.
Mr. Myers said that it was merely a rumor, and that he knew
nothing about their ownership or operation of Vendome Liquor. He
indicated that he had no intention of entering into any business
relationship with Vendome Liquor or any other liquor store. He
added that he intended to sell only beer and wine, as the
application states, and that it was his understanding that a
license for hard liquor required a different kind of permit.
Vice Chair Hayes asked Mr. Myers if he would comment on the
statement that the 7 -Eleven was a "haven for drugs".
Mr. Myers replied that, to his knowledge, there never had been
any drug activity at that location.
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Myers to be more specific in terms
of the square footage of the convenience store, as compared to
the gasoline sales areas and service bays.
Mr. Myers stated that the size of the convenience store was
substantially smaller than the gasoline sales area and the
service bays, and that gasoline would constitute about 90 percent
of his business.
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Myers that if, for some reason, he
were to eliminate some portion or all of the automotive repair
element of his business, would he increase the size of the
convenience store.
Mr. Myers responded that he had no intention now, or in the
future, of eliminating the automotive repair portion of his
business.
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Myers what he would do to minimize
the problems associated with any activity in back of the lot
along the fence.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 11
Mr. Myers stated that he would be willing to remove the existing
telephone booth because he felt that it might reduce the amount
of traffic and litter. He added that a five or six foot gap
between the wall and the landscaping on the hill had created a
hidden area for teenagers to congregate, but he believed that the
chain link fence, although slatted, would provide better
visibility and decrease substantially these type of problems. He
pointed out that Staff has suggested that the installation of
motion -detector lights adjacent to that area would light the area
when needed, with a minimum of disturbance to the residents.
RECESS AND RECONVENE
The Commission recessed at 8:30 P.M. and reconvened at 8:47 P.M.
Planning Administrator Petru noted that another petition in
opposition to the Mobil station had been received at the
beginning of the hearing, for a total of 83 people in opposition
to the proposed project.
Chairman Mowlds suggested that because of the large audience for
this item, there may be people who wished to provide further
comments on this project, to be followed, if necessary by
rebuttal from the applicant.
Mr.William Glantz, 28070 Santona Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Glantz, stated that the issue of maintaining the property had
been addressed by Mr. Myers only after numerous complaints from
the adjacent residents and, most recently, after the submittal of
the current application. He said that the fence along the rear
property line was in a bad condition and that a fire hazard had
been created due to the overgrowth of weeds that were on the hill
bordering approximately four houses. Mr.Glantz said that he had
been reminded that evening about an incident about 8 to 10 years
earlier in which two molitov cocktails were thrown from the gas
station in the middle of the night and landed about 10 feet from
his neighbor's house.
Carl Muchnick, 6307 Rio Linda Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Muchnick was concerned that even if Mr. Myers was sincere about
being a "good neighbor", what consideration could the residents
expect from any future owner of the Mobil station.
Ken Moore, 6344 Villa Rosa Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr. Moore
indicated that the residents in opposition to the project did not
want to be forced to appeal an approval to the City Council. He
also indicated that there may be a need for a temporary
restraining order, in anticipation of further legal action,
including a lawsuit requesting the removal of current Council
members.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 12
William Myers, disagreed with Mr. Glantz's previous comments that
he had only recently been cleaning up litter. In regard to the
fence, he was presently in escrow with Mobil Oil and could not
repair or replace the fence until the escrow closed. He
acknowledged that the surrounding hillsides did tend to get dry
and could be a potential fire hazard, but that the hazard could
be reduced by regularly watering the slope or removing the weeds.
Mr. Myers further stated that he was never informed of a molitov
cocktail being thrown from his station.
Commissioner vannorsdall asked Mr. Myers if the surrounding hill
area was part of his property. Mr. Myers said it was not his
property, but belonged to the downslope residents.
Vice Chair Hayes moved to close the public hearing, seconded by
commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (7-0).
Commissioner vannorsdall asked Mr. Myers if he knew how much
gross income the proposed convenience store was going to
generate, as opposed to the gasoline station.
Chairman Mowlds interjected that the permit application for the
Mobil station did not require that information.
Commissioner vannorsdall felt that this issue should be
considered in the decision making process.
Commissioner Wang felt, after seeing the large size of the
subject lot, that she had come to the conclusion that the
property could accommodate a convenience store as large as the
one being proposed. She also felt comfortable with Staff's
recommendations with regard to the setback requirements for the
propane tank and Staff's analysis regarding the potential for any
impacts to residents' views. Mrs. Wang believed that Mr. Myers
was sincere in his commitment to remain a good neighbor, but that
she also understood that he, like all business -owners, wanted his
business to be profitable. Commissioner Wang also sympathized
with the surrounding neighbors, especially with respect to the
issues of increased traffic, noise, and litter, and expressed her
hope that all parties involved could work together to resolve
these issues. However, she was still undecided on the issue of
the sale of beer and wine.
commissioner Whiteneck stated that his primary concern was with
the sale of beer and wine, but not with the proposed convenience
store in general or the potential increase in traffic, because he
felt the station would be able to accommodate the increased
activity. With reference to the proposed propane tank,
commissioner Whiteneck believed that all safety concerns would be
dealt with, adding that he was familiar with propane, having
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 13
bought propane at a Union station on Palos Verdes Drive South and
Hawthorne Boulevard for many years, where there had been no
incidents.
Commissioner Ferraro expressed her concern with the issue of
whether or not the proposed convenience store was "ancillary" to
the service station use. She reported that she had recently
visited the Mirage Car Wash in Lomita, which she has been told
was one of the largest lot areas containing a similar station.
She noticed that most of the products being sold there related to
cars, including air fresheners or cleaners, sunglasses, etc., and
that, even though there were a few items that were not directly
related, such as cards, pens and limited food items, they
justifiably accommodated customers who were in a hurry. Mrs.
Ferraro believed that the proposed convenience store would not be
an auxiliary use, but a new use. commissioner Ferraro also noted
that the Development Code addressed the issue of proliferation of
convenience stores, and since there was an existing 7 -Eleven
store across the street, this project seemed to be proliferation.
She did not object to the additional gas pumps, but stressed that
aesthetics should be considered in the landscaping. Mrs. Ferraro
believed that, if the sale of beer and wine was allowed, the
space allocated these types of sales should be small.
Vice Chair Hayes reiterated that the purpose of the Automotive
Service Overlay District was to maintain service stations in the
City and she felt some people had lost sight of that objective.
She noted that consideration had to be given to the fact that
what was once a lease payment was now a larger mortgage payment.
Mrs. Hayes also addressed the issue of the 7 -Eleven store's
declining business and explained that perhaps that decline was
related to the fact that it was nearly impossible to safely enter
and exit that business establishment, and that perhaps the owner
should consider relocating the business in order to correct those
conditions and avoid the loss of a business. Vice Chair Hayes
concluded by saying that the City needed to encourage business.
Commissioner Alberio stated that he believed firmly in property
rights and felt that everyone had the right to develop his or her
property, as prescribed by the Code. However, he also recognized
the rights of the residential neighbors. He agreed with
Commissioner Ferraro that the proposed convenience store would
qualify as a new business. Mr. Alberio pointed out that all the
issued needed to be regulated, including fencing, security, the
sale of propane, the sale of liquor, the size of the store, and
signage. In reference to Mr. Moore's comments regarding criminal
liability, Mr. Alberio felt it had to be clearly established that
the project must comply with requirements of all agencies in the
State of California and that there is the potential criminal
activity in any business environment, not just in relation to the
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 14
sale of alcohol. Mr. Alberio stressed that, even though Mr.
Moore did not personally approve of the sale of alcohol at the
proposed convenience store, the fact that alcohol sales were
allowed across the street negates his argument. He further
stated that he was hopeful that a compromise could be reached
between the applicant and the adjacent residents.
Chairman Mowlds felt that the Commission should adopt the draft
Mitigated Negative Declaration and Conceptually Approve the
project that evening, with direction to Staff regarding the
preparation of P.C. Resolutions to reflect the commission's
decision. He suggested that this be done by breaking the project
down, piece by piece, and adding conditions as needed.
Commissioner Alberio added that the project would impact the
community, but that it was the Commission's goal to make sure
that the impacts were properly mitigated.
Planning Administrator Petru noted that the Mitigated Negative
Declaration found that there would be no significant impacts
generated by the project that could not be mitigated, and that
Staff could add any additional conditions of approval desired by
the commission.
Vice Chairman Hayes moved to conceptually Adopt the Mitigated
Negative Declaration, seconded by Commissioner Alberio.
Approved, (7-0).
Chairman Mowlds proposed that the Commission proceed with the
instructions to the Staff and suggested that they also break this
down into the following separate issues: alcohol, noise, trash
cleanup, fences, store size, propane tank, and signs.
Commissioner Alberio stated that he would like to conceptually
Approve the project and, for the time being, eliminate the issue
of liquor altogether, since this issue could be addressed at a
later date.
Commissioner Alberio moved to take a straw vote to postpone the
issue of the sale of alcohol, seconded by Commissioner Wang.
Approved, (7-0).
A straw vote was then taken in regard to postponing the issue of
the sale of alcohol, with a yes vote meaning that there would be
no discussion of alcohol at this time. The results of the straw
vote were as follows:
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 15
Alberio
Yes
Ferraro
Yes
Vannorsdall
Yes
Wang
Yes
Whiteneck
Yes
Vice Chair Hayes
Yes
Chairman Mowlds
Yes
Therefore, any discussion regarding the issue of the proposed
sale of alcohol was postponed until a later time.
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to include the issue of the
propane tank in that evening's discussion, with the size and
location to be determined by the Fire Department and the Staff,
seconded by Commissioner Wang. Approved, (7-0).
The results of the straw vote were as follows:
Alberio
Yes
Ferraro
Yes
Vannorsdall
Yes
Wang
Yes
Whiteneck
Yes
Vice Chair Hayes
Yes
Chairman Mowlds
Yes
Therefore, the issue of the propane tank would be addressed
tonight, with the size and location to be determined by the Fire
Department and the Staff.
Chairman Mowlds suggested that the City assign a trash patrol to
the area of Grandvia Altamira and Hawthorne Boulevard. He stated
that he was well aware of the problem because he travelled that
route frequently and felt that the problem was due to the heavy
pedestrian traffic near the 7 -Eleven and the corner bus stop.
Commissioner Alberio disagreed and believed that this issue
related to Code Enforcement and not this particular project.
Director/Secretary Bernard explained that although imposing
conditions on the 7 -Eleven would be inappropriate due to the
current application proposed, the commission could discuss how it
might indirectly relate to the Mobil station application.
Commissioner Alberio stressed that this could be an unwarranted
condition placed upon the Mobil station convenience store as a
result of impacts generated by the 7-11 store.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 16
Chairman Mowlds concurred with Commissioner Alberiols reasoning,
but believed that if this issue was addressed with consideration
to the addition of a convenience store at the Mobil station, the
necessary cooperation would follow.
Commissioner Alberio reiterated his opinion that this was
strictly a Code Enforcement issue.
Associate Planner Silverman suggested that additional trash cans
could be strategically placed in the problem areas, along with
signs to encourage proper trash disposal. She also suggested
that a time be established for daily trash pickup which would be
mutually acceptable between the residents and the Mobil station.
However, resident authorization would probably be required to
allow for proper access onto private property.
Director/Secretary Bernard addressed an issue previously raised
by Mr. Alberio and noted that trash disposal became the
responsibility of an individual once ownership and possession
were established. Trash citations were not issue to the store
where the goods were purchased, but to the responsible
individual. However, the Commission's suggestions with respect
to a good neighborhood policy, was offered with the sole intent
to helping the convenience store interface with the surrounding
neighborhood.
Associate Planner Silverman proposed sending out letters to the
neighborhood encouraging them to work with the Mobil station and
7 -Eleven store in order to minimize the trash.
Further discussion ensued among Chairman Mowlds, Commissioner
Alberio and Commissioner Vannorsdall with respect to who should
be responsible for trash pickup on Grandvia Altamira and
Hawthorne Boulevard. It was noted that, at various times, a
business owner was left with the sole responsibility of tending
to the required needs of his business and the surrounding area at
hand. Although all were in agreement that Mr. Myers should not
be placed in a position of sole responsibility with regard to the
actions of others, extending his responsibility to include the
surround area might improve his relationship with his neighbors.
The topic of the fence was introduced by Chairman Mowlds, and
Commissioner Alberio reiterated Mr. Myers' previous comments that
he could do nothing until escrow closed.
Commissioner Ferraro brought up the Staff's recommendations for
requiring the installation of thorny bushes to discourage people
from gathering near the fence.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 17
Vice Chairman Hayes reminded the Commission of Mr. Myers' plan to
install a chain link fence with wooden slats and landscaping to
increase the barrier. She suggest that perhaps the fence could
be increased in height from six feet to eight feet.
Commissioner Alberio added that the proposed fence could be
equipped with a "catch-all" applied to the back side which would
catch items thrown from the back lot and provide a safety net for
the residents living at the bottom of the hill.
Upon inquiry, Commissioner Wang was told by Staff that the height
of the fence would need to remain at six feet, unless a Variance
application was approved for a greater height.
Chairman Mowlds asked if any of the Commissioners had concerns
about the proposed chain link fence. None were opposed to the
fence as currently proposed.
Straw votes were taken regarding the proposed signage, with the
following results:
Issue A: To allow the installation of a new monument sign on
Hawthorne Boulevard:
Alberio
Yes
Ferraro
Yes
Vannorsdall
Yes
Wang
Yes
Whiteneck
Yes
Vice Chair Hayes
No
Chairman Mowlds
Yes
Therefore, approval was granted for the installation of a
monument sign on Hawthorne Boulevard.
Issue B: To allow the installation of a clip -on sign on Grandvia
Altamira.
Alberio
Yes
Ferraro
No
Vannorsdall
No
Wang
No
Whiteneck
Yes
Vice Chair Hayes
No
Chairman Mowlds
No
Therefore, this motion failed and no clip -on sign would be
allowed on Grandvia Altamira.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 18
0
It was noted that at the first meeting, the Commission had
decided to allow one clip -on sign on the light pole on Hawthorne
Boulevard.
Chairman Mowlds suggested that the size of the proposed
convenience store be discussed and reminded the Commission that
the project would extend the building 25 feet closer to Grandvia
Altamira.
Cimmissioner Alberio stated that he would like the convenience
store to be reduced in size and/or limited to its originally
proposed 1,296 square feet.
Chairman Mowlds asked Staff if a condition could be included in
the Conditional Use Permit, which would state that, in the event
there was a new owner, the Conditional Use Permit would become
null and void. Associate Planner Silverman noted that
Conditional Use Permits generally run with the land, but that a
special conditions could be considered.
Chairman Mowlds noted that Mr. Myers may discontinue the use of
the service bays, but continue the operation of the convenience
store. He suggested that if the service bay operation was
eliminated, the Conditional Use Permit should no longer be valid.
Commissioner Alberio expressed a concern with that this type of
condition might infringe on Mr. Myer's property rights.
Director/Secretary Bernard explained that the Automotive Service
Overlay addresses that issue, since it encouraged the
continuation of automotive service related used.
Commissioner Vannorsdall expressed the opinion that the key issue
was not the store size, but whether this will be an ancillary
business to the gas station. He further suggested that perhaps
imposing a size limitation to the store would correct the
problem.
Secretary Bernard added that one of the reasons that Staff
focused on the store size, rather than the percent of gross
income, since it would be inappropriate for Staff to continually
review and report on the cash profits from this business.
Commissioner Wang asked if the Staff had ever received an
estimate from the applicant in terms of projected gross business
from the store.
Associate Silverman reiterated Director/Secretary Bernard's
statement that Staff cannot request this type of information from
the applicant.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 19
•
0
Commissioner Whiteneck felt that the proposed 1,400 square feet
convenience store was the appropriate size and would be willing
to allow additional space, if requested.
Commissioner Ferraro indicated that she was primarily concerned
with ancillary usage, in relation to the gas station, and felt
that the store seemed to be a separate business. She suggested
that perhaps the size of the proposed store should be limited, in
order to qualify as an ancillary use, and should be similar in
size to other similar businesses in the area.
Vice Chairman Hayes stated that she had no objection to the
proposed size of the convenience store.
Commissioner Alberio agreed with Commissioner Ferraro that the
convenience store seemed to be a separate business and noted that
most of the gas stations with convenience stores did not include
an automotive repair business.
Chairman Mowlds addressed the issue of traffic safety with the
addition of a convenience store at this particular corner. He
noted that, although the 7 -Eleven was just across the street, it
was much more difficult and sometimes dangerous to pull into the
7 -Eleven parking lot, especially at certain times of the day.
Chairman Mowlds felt that there were definite benefits associated
with having an easily -accessible convenience store. However, he
pointed out that the Commission was not trying to correct the
mistakes of other businesses.
Vice Chairman Hayes moved to accept the proposed size of the
convenience store, seconded by Commissioner Whiteneck. Approved,
(6-1), with Commissioner Ferraro dissenting.
A discussion regarding relocation of the public telephone booths
followed.
Vice Chairman Hayes moved to adopt the Staff's recommendation to
relocate the telephone booths to the south side of the building,
seconded by Commissioner Vannorsdall. Approved, (7-0).
Staff brought up the subject of access barriers after hours. A
discussion ensued regarding the Commission's concerns of damage
to vehicles caused by a chain across the driveway, and it was
decided to postpone consideration of this issue to a later time.
Vice Chairman Hayes brought up the issue of additional lighting,
including motion -sensitive types. Chairman Mowlds expressed
concern about the possible annoyance to the surrounding neighbors
caused by the lights constantly going on and off.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 20
•
Commissioner Vannorsdall suggested that the issue of lighting be
postponed for later discussion.
Director/Secretary Bernard suggested that a review of the
Conditional Use Permit, including the effectiveness of any
security lighting, be scheduled for six months after the
convenience store opens. The Commission agreed with Staff's
suggestion.
After a discussion, the hours of operation were established as
5:00 A.M. to 11:00 P.M. on weekdays and 5:00 A.M. until Midnight
on weekends. Chairman Mowlds noted that this would also include
the minimum two -employee requirement.
The idea of a neighborhood patrol for trash pickup was postponed
for future discussion, pending Staff consultation with the City
Attorney.
A vote was taken to Conceptually Approve the Conditional Use
Permit, based on the direction given to Staff regarding the
proposed conditions of approval, with the following results:
Alberio
Ferraro
Vannorsdall
Wang
Whiteneck
Vice Chair Hayes
Chairman Mowlds
Staff noted that the
Commission's actions
to the Commission for
NEW BUSINESS
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
P.C. Resolution memorializing the Planning
that evening would be prepared and presented
adoption at a future meeting.
A. SIGN PERMIT NO. 565• Palo Verde Apartments, Pamela
Dunham (Manager), 6600 Beachview Drive. (FF)
Commissioner Whiteneck recused himself from hearing this item,
since his residence is within close proximity to the subject
property.
Assistant Planner de Freitas presented the Staff Report and
recommended denial of the request for an off-site sign.
Chairman Mowlds called for speakers on the item.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 21
Pamela Dunham, (Manager) 6600 Beachview Drive, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Ms. Dunham asked the meaning of the alternative in the
Staff Report stating: "Deny the request and suggest the
applicant pursue the matter via a Code Amendment Request."
Assistant Planner de Freitas explained that the City Attorney
believed that if the applicant wished to pursue such an off-site
sign, the more appropriate mechanism would be through a Code
Amendment to allow that specific use since the code currently
doesn't explicitly prohibit such a use. However, Mr. de Freitas
felt that the Code section implied that the use should not be
allowed.
Commissioner Alberio asked if that meant that the City never
granted Nonconforming Use Permits, and Director/secretary Bernard
responded that the City allowed established Nonconforming Use
Permits to continue, but did not allow new uses that were not in
conformance with the Code.
Ms. Dunham asked if the Golden Cove Shopping Center signs,
because they'd been there for so long, qualify as "established"
signs, and Director/Secretary Bernard noted that those are signs
were actually on Golden Cove property. Ms. Dunham disagreed,
stating that there were Golden Cove signs that were on the
medians on Hawthorne Boulevard and on Palos Verdes Drive South.
Director/Secretary Bernard clarified that these signs were
allowed as a convenience to the public to identify the location
of one of the City's largest shopping centers.
Ms. Dunham stated that she could not see the difference from her
request asking for a sign that said "Porto Verde Apartments."
Commissioner Alberio asked if this was a directional sign, and
Ms. Dunham said that it was.
Director/Secretary Bernard noted that the difference was that the
shopping center was considered by the City as a combination of
many businesses rather than one. He noted that there was a fine
line by which the Public Works Department had allowed signs for
public use, public service, public benefit, with "public" being
the important word.
Ms. Dunham said that she understood, but that they are asking for
only a six-month temporary sign.
Ms. Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.
Larue stated that she was in favor of the City supporting the
Porto Verde Apartments and noted that on Palos Verdes Drive South
and Seacove there were at one time "gigantic" advertising signs
posted for more than two weeks and the City never objected.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 22
Director/Secretary Bernard pointed out that Code Enforcement did
not require that the above-mentioned advertising signs be taken
down and, in fact, with the city's encouragement, the owner had
submitted applications for a General Plan Amendment to allow
continued commercial use on that site, because it was a non-
conforming use which had terminated because of lack of occupancy.
He added that the City wanted to encourage business, but to avoid
the proliferation of signs, according to City Council policy.
Commissioner Vannorsdall did not object to placing a directional
sign for the apartment complex under the existing street sign
because he felt it was difficult to find one's way around the
Peninsula without a detailed map.
Commissioner Wang believed that, as a property manager herself,
the best way to advertise property was through newspapers, such
as the Daily Breeze.
Vice Chair Hayes stated that she was definitely opposed to off-
site signs, but was in favor of a small directional sign placed
under the existing street sign. However, since that had not been
approved by Public Works, she believed that the apartment name
existing on the building now was sufficiently visible from Palos
Verdes Drive South.
Commissioner Alberio indicated that he would like to refer this
back to the City Council for further discussion and a decision,
because this was a Code matter.
Chairman Mowlds disagreed, stating that the City Council would
probably send the issue back to the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Alberio moved to uphold the Staff's recommendation,
thereby, denying Sign Permit No. 665, seconded by Vice Chairman
Hayes. Approved, (7-0).
Commissioner Vannorsdall moved to consider the attachment of a
small directional sign under the existing street sign, as
previously discussed. Chairman Mowlds noted that the Public
Works Department had previously denied approval of such a matter.
The motion died, due to a lack of a second.
The Commissioner notified the applicant of the 15 -day appeal
period to the City Council.
Commissioner Whitehead returned to the dais.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 23
CONTINUED BUSINESS
B. PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO TITLE 16 & 17 OF THE CITY'S
MUNICIPAL CODE (DEVELOPMENT CODE REVISIONS); City of
Rancho Palos Verdes, citywide. (JR)
Senior Planner Rojas presented the Staff Report and introduced
some changes to the text that was given to the Commission on
December 13, 1994: Chapter 17.46, the Equestrian Overlay
Chapter, was reinserted per direction to Staff at the January 10,
1995 meeting and a portion of Chapter 17.02 was reinserted
because Staff felt this Section was under the purview of the View
Restoration Commission, but language provisions of this Section
had been mutually -agreed upon by both the Planning Commission and
the View Restoration commission.
In response to a question from Chairman Mowlds, Planning
Administrator Petru who noted that the Section being reinserted
included the actual provision for the View Restoration Permits,
which the Commission had reviewed previously, but not commented
on.
Chairman Mowlds noted that the City Attorney was reviewing the
Development Code.
Director/Secretary Bernard pointed out that Chapter 17.02 was not
discussed at the Joint Meeting between the City Council, Planning
Commission, and View Restoration Commission on Saturday, January
21, 1995.
Senior Planner Rojas introduced for review and discussion the
changes made to the text which were attached as replacement
pages.
Chairman Mowlds asked the members of the Commission if there was
any reason that the replacement pages should not be inserted as
presented. Since there were no objections, the pages would be
inserted.
Senior Planner Rojas noted that in regard to Chapter 17.46
(equestrian issues), Staff had made changes as previously
directed by the Planning Commission. However, Staff was
requesting further direction from the commission, as summarized
on Page 4 of the Staff Report, with respect to adding language
that would prohibit more than six horses from being kept at any
time on any one parcel, regardless of contiguous ownership.
Staff would like to know whether the Commission would rather
require fencing of each individual parcel or perhaps simply
require that the stables or corrals for each group of six animals
be limited to each lot or parcel.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 24
With regard to Height Variation permits, Director/Secretary
Bernard commented that he wanted to make sure that the Commission
was satisfied with the standards for neighborhood compatibility,
based on the standards that were inserted over the course of the
last year. The question has arisen because of the number of
cases heard lately regarding what the Commission would or would
not allow for Height Variation, Chair Mowlds stated that the
City Council had requested the Planning Commission to direct
Staff to review what constitutes compatibility and to consult
with the Commission if there are questions.
Toni Deeble, 3 East Pomegranate Road, Portuguese Bend. Ms.
Deeble commented that her concerns were with the changes to
Section 17.46.020 (C), and in particular, with the word
"commercial," in terms of requiring a business license for
residents who board more than three horses. She felt that the
issues pertaining to what will be considered commercial versus
non-commercial, and how it effects the residential community,
should be part of a separate public hearing process. Therefore,
she recommended that the language as it appeared prior to the
January 10, 1995, meeting should remain.
I
Ms. Pam Turner, representing the Palos Verdes Peninsula
Horseman's Association, 5700 Ravenspur Drive, #305, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Ms. Turner stated that she and the Association believed
that the arbitrary decision of limiting an owner to three horses
without a cpmmercial permit was perhaps based on an oversight in
not considering that horses are used for many purposes. For
example, two people may own four horses, but two are trail horses
and two are show horses. She also pointed out that a family of
four could each have a horse and that would not be a commercial
use. Ms. Turner hoped that the Commission would reconsider the
three -horse limit.
Ms. Sharon Hegetschweiler, President of the Portuguese Bend
Community Association, 6 Clovetree Place, Portuguese Bend. Ms.
Hegetschweiler made reference to the community Association's
membership survey on the horse issues and pointed out that the
conclusion was that the majority of the Association members were
in favor of allowing boarding for the property owner's horses
only, or perhaps adding a friend's horse, but they were not in
favor of the boarding of horses owned by people not living in the
community. She noted that the Portuguese Bend Community
Association wanted to avoid a situation in which a homeowner had
a lot with a home on it, plus two additional vacant lots on which
they boarded outsiders' horses. She believed that, in that
instance, a licensing fee would be appropriate. She asked that
if the Commission planned to discuss the horse issue further at
their next regular meeting on February 14, that they reschedule
the discussion because it conflicted with the Portuguese Bend
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 25
Community Association's Annual Meeting.
Ms. Sherree Greenwood, 2543 Sunnyside Ridge Road, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Ms. Greenwood felt it was wrong to require a license
(and more expense to add to the already high cost of maintaining
horses) for someone owning more than three horses because usually
every member of a family had a horse and often families
numbered more than three. She asked that, if the Commission had
to impose a limitation, that they consider at least four horses
per situation that should be considered. such as in the case of a
neighbor who had a horse ranch located outside of the City, and
brought her horses in from the ranch, kept them at her home here
for a month or two, and then took them back to the ranch. Ms.
Greenwood also stated that although the 35 -foot setback might be
a good rule for the Portuguese Bend area, due to the irregularity
of the size and flatness of the lots on the east side of the
City, some of the, some of the families would not have that much
distance between the houses, which would mean that they could not
keep horses.
Commissioner Alberio asked Ms. Greenwood whether the east side of
the City had CC&R's in place and she stated that they are in
place and she believed they were being enforced. Commissioner
Alberio noted that the Commission needed to establish regulations
which were reasonable for all the equestrian overlay district in
the City.
Ms. Kay Bara, 1 Peppertree Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.'Bara
noted that she thought the Commission showed good "horse -sense"
by stating that it was against the licensing of individual
horses. She did question the language stating that a landowner
could not have horses on vacant parcels unless he or she owned
the house next door and saw no problem in keeping all the horses
on one parcel when contiguous lots are owned. Mrs. Bara
speculated that a person would need to board more than ten
horses in order to make a profit, and if fencing each parcel were
a requirement to separate them into groups of six for each
parcel, the expense could be great. She gave an example of her
individual case in which she had one large parcel of 10 acres
with seven horses and it didn't make sense to keep six on one
parcel and a single horse on another.
Mr. Dan Murphy, 227 Avenue D, Redondo Beach. Mr. Murphy stated
that he did not live in the City of Rancho Palos Verdes but has
boarded his five horses (for his family of five) in the City for
almost 16 years. He pointed out that he had been renting property
and was responsible for the maintenance of that property,
spending over $8,000 during the last year to repair flood damage
to the fences. Mr. Murphy also noted that during the time he had
boarded his horses on the rented property, he'd had only two
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 26
minor complaints that he remedied immediately, even to the point
of adding landscaping.
Sunshine, 6 Limetree Lane, Rancho Palos Verdes. Sunshine stated
that she sent letters to the Staff regarding the equestrian
overlay district, but apparently they never arrived, so she
provided copies that she hoped the Commission would look at
later. Her main question was what did the Council wish to
accomplish by introducing fees for horse keeping and said that
she understood that the only thing that was agreed upon at the
last meeting was that the Commission did not agree with the Code
as presented by the Staff. Further, she stated that the "three
for free," low density, and continuation of the six horses
proposal cancel out the benefits of each other. Sunshine felt
that a proliferation of small barns would not make the anti -
commercial boarders happy; and reducing the property owners'
opportunities to use their property would not make anybody happy.
Mr. Robert Maxwell, 7 E. Pomegranate Road, Rancho Palos Verdes.
Mr. Maxwell stated that the stabling of horses commercially would
most effect the East Portuguese Bend area which was already beset
by an active landslide with a moratorium on construction, and
blight. Mr. Maxwell referenced photos that were given to the
Commission and Staff dated January 22, 1995, to show recent
activity in regard to corrals. He felt that these photos, along
with others shown on previous meetings, showed that commercial
boarding was present in the East Portuguese Bend area. He added
that this was a condition contrary to the CC&Rls under which he
bought his house, and it was a condition that very much hurt
their property and aesthetic values.
Ms. Betty Field Strauss, 10 West Pomegranate, Rancho Palos
Verdes. Ms. Strauss said that she wanted to respectfully tell
Mr.Murphy that she did not agree that he maintained his property
well and that she understood that riding lessons were being given
on his leased property. She apologized that the petition was not
as complete as it might have been, due to the rainy weather. She
pointed out that there were Portuguese Bend residents and not all
were members of the Portuguese Bend Community Association. She
read the heading on the petition and indicated that the signers
had agreed with this statement. She agreed with the suggestion
of a limit of three horses and felt that most people could live
with that limitation.
Mr. Richard Bara, 1 Peppertree Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Bara disagreed that family horse boarding operations were
commercial and felt that the term commercial referred to
operations such as the Portuguese Bend Riding Club. He
congratulated and cautioned the Commission because he felt they
were beginning to get a feel for recreational non-commercial
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 27
boarding. He requested that the Commission remove Chapter 17.46
from the Development Code Revisions being sent to the City
Council so that all their revisions are not held up waiting for
resolution of the horse issues, which he believed were far from
resolved. Mr.Bara repeated that the Code regarding horses should
not be changed which he felt echoed the opinions of many other
speakers.
Director/Secretary Bernard informed Chairman Mowlds that there
was one person who did not have an opportunity to complete a
speaker's form and would like to speak.
Chairman Mowlds allowed the additional speaker.
Ms. Joan Wright, 1 Fruit Tree Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms.
Wright reported that she had one to two horses for 30 years and
that she did not agree with the figures given as examples of the
high cost of maintain horses. She believed that some people
boarding horses were being overcharged and, even when costs of
maintaining buildings and fences were included, the expenses were
being exaggerated.
Chairman Mowlds asked for comments from the Commission.
Commissioner Alberio suggested that the discussion regarding
Chapter 17.46 be continued to a future meeting.
Vice Chair Hayes was comfortable with the most recent changes,
and believed that the limit of three horses was good,
Commissioner Ferraro did not agree with the recent language
changes, including the fencing of individual parcels to separate
horses. She concluded that commercial boarding was not
desirable, yet language was being included to allow it.
Commissioner Whiteneck believed that the recent changes were
correct in concept, but possibly three horses was not exactly the
right limit and was willing to reconsider this issue.
Commissioner Wang was also not sure about the appropriateness of
the three horses limit.
Commissioner Vannorsdall believed the Commission's conclusions
were correct, even though he had originally suggested a limit of
four horses. He asked if there would be a procedure for special
cases, such as a Variance or would there be no exceptions to the
rules.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 28
Director/Secretary Bernard replied that as currently written,
there would not be an exception procedure for these Code
standards. He added that Staff did not have a preference
regarding the limited selected by the Commission, but the
Commission should realize that enforceability might be a problem.
When Commissioner Alberio asked for an explanation,
Director/Secretary Bernard gave an example, stating that if there
were six, horses, and they were not individually licensed, Staff
may be unable to conclusively determine their ownership.
Chairman Mowlds addressed the proposal of continuing the item to
the next regular meeting on February 14, 1995. Chairman Mowlds
felt that the Commission's suggestions evolved from input from
many speakers and, even though details might need to be changed,
he felt that valuable conclusions had been made. He believed no
further discussion was required until the topic was reviewed by
the City Council.
Chairman Mowlds moved that the Commission's current
recommendations on Chapter 17.46 be forwarded to the City,
seconded by Commissioner Whiteneck .
The motion passed (6-1) on the following roll call:
AYES: Alberio, Vannorsdall, Wang, Whiteneck,, Hayes, Mowlds
NOES: Ferraro
Senior Planner Rojas commented that on new Page 117B, new
paragraph "C", in the fourth line, reference was made to "non-
commercial use", and in the third line from the bottom"commercial
use" was mentioned. Staff believed that the word "use" should be
replaced with "activity" because a "commercial use" could create
a conflict with the residential zoning.
Chairman Mowlds asked the Commission if there were objections to
this language modification and there were none.
Commissioner Ferraro asked if the City Attorney was going to be
consulted regarding whether it was legal to consider a number of
contiguous parcels as a single lot.
Senior Planner Rojas said that the entire Code was going to be
forwarded to the City Attorney the following day to request those
types of comments.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 24, 1995
PAGE 29
Director/Secretary Bernard pointed out that the Commission had
made a decision to ratify language in the Staff Report in regard
to horses, having review the entire Development Code three times
-(or four times if the Subcommittee meetings were included). By
February 14, Staff should have comments from the City Attorney
with additional concerns for the commission's review. At that
time, the Commission can make its final decision on the
Development Code Revisions, including how the six horses limit
would be configured. On February 28, the final Resolution would
probably be signed, forwarding all the Commission's
recommendations to the City Council.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
A. STAFF
1. Pre -Agenda for the regular Planning Commission meeting of
Tuesday, February 14, 1995.
2. Director/Secretary Bernard suggested that the Planning
Commission consider modification of the Planning Commission
Agenda format to include "Approval of Agenda" The Commission
asked that this be included on the next agenda.
3. Director/Secretary Bernard indicated that he would bring to
the next Planning Commission meeting written information for
each commissioner regarding the upcoming League of California
Cities Planners Institute being held in Monterey from March 22
through 24, 1995. He needed to know by Friday, January 27,
1995, which Commissioners were interested in attending. Funds
had been approved for only three Commissioners to attend and,
if there were more attendees, he would need to submit a
request for more funding to be considered at the city
Council's February 7, 1995 meeting.
B. COMMISSION - NONE
X. COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, spoke regarding the Portuguese
Bend Club grading project and Dr. Ehlig's recommendations.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was duly adjourned at 12:05 A.M.
The next Regular meeting would be on Tuesday, February 14, 1995,
at 7:00 P.M., at Hesse Park.
(A.JDMIN#8 - MINI 24)
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JANUARY 24, 1995
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