PC MINS 19940111APPROVED
2/8/94-
A
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 11, 1994
The meeting was called to order at 7:37 PM by Chairman Rob
Katherman at the Hesse Park Community Building, 29301 Hawthorne
Boulevard. The Pledge of Allegiance followed, led by Lois Larue.
PRESENT: Commissioners Mowlds and Lorenzen, Co -Vice -Chairpersons
Hayes and Alberio, and Chairman Katherman.
ABSENT: Commissioner Clark
Also present were Director of Planning, Building and Code
Enforcement Bernard, Planning Administrator Petru, Assistant
Planner de Freitas, and Assistant Planner Klopfenstein.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Bernard reported there were 12 items of late
correspondence received after the Commissioners agenda packets were
assembled and distributed. For Item VB, there was one letter; Item
VIA, six letters; Item VIC, three letters; and Item VIIIA, one
letter. Additional correspondence and a clarifying agreement was
received from Staff for approval of the December 6, 1993 Minutes
regarding Environmental Assessment No. 657, Conditional Use Permit
No. 177, Grading Permit No. 1711, at 6100 Via Subida. All
correspondence had been placed before the Commission.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Chairman Katherman stated that because of a lack of quorum to
approve the November 23, 1993, minutes at the last meeting,
approval needed to be given tonight. A motion was made to approve
these minutes by Commissioner Hayes and seconded by Commissioner
Lorenzen. Approved (5-0)
(STAFF NOTE: THERE WAS A QUORUM AT THE LAST MEETING; THEREFORE THE
APPROVAL GIVEN AT THAT TIME WAS VALID.)
VA. Minutes of December 6, 1993.
Commissioner Mowlds stated that at the December 6, 1993 meeting, it
was his understanding that the Commission had approved the tree
removal and thinning profile provided by Mr. Angus Lorenzen for the
proposed house on Via Subida.
Director Bernard replied that Staff's understanding was that the
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 1
Director Bernard replied that Staff's understanding was that the
Commission did make reference to the profile during the discussion.
However, Mr. Lorenzen had provided two schemes, one was the
existing foliage which was the upper red line and also offered, as
his compromise position, a lower red line for the trimming and
removal of certain trees. This was confusing because both lines
were the same color. It was Staff's recollection that the Planning
Commission did not select, in its entirety, the lower red line but,
in making reference to other photographs, the Commission did select
portions of the lower red line. Staff believes that the Resolution
which the Chairman signed accurately reflects the decision of the
Commission. Staff has gone back through some of the discussion and
the verbatim transcript; but has not had a chance, given the short
time, to transcribe it word for word. However, this transcription
does reflect that the Commission did select portions, not all, of
that lower red line.
Also, Director Bernard noted that Mr. Lorenzen called for a meeting
involving Staff (Planning Administrator Carolynn Petru, Project
Coordinator Terry Silverman, and himself), along with Scott
Yanofsky, Mr. Yanofsky's business partner, and Mr. Lorenzen. The
meeting took place on the day City Hall reopened after the holidays
(January 3), to discuss clarification of the already signed
Resolution. It is an important date because that was the last day
to appeal the decision of the Planning Commission. Director
Bernard added that copies of the clarifying agreement reached,
which includes language agreed upon between the two parties at the
January 3 meeting, have been provided to these parties for
signature and have been placed before the Commission tonight.
Staff believes that the agreement only clarified certain points in
the approval and that the intent of the Planning commission to
reach a compromise, remains intact.
Chairman Katherman stated that his recollection is that when he and
the other members of the Subcommittee viewed the applicant's
property from the various neighbors' homes uphill, the Subcommittee
picked out portions from a red and a blue line in certain areas
(portions of the blue line, but primarily the red line). The
resulting compromise required the removal of three identified
trees, which were in the conditions of approval for the Conditional
Use Permit, and then a great deal of it was left up to the
discretion of Director Bernard to require reasonable thinning and
thinning of trees throughout the rest of the property. Chairman
Katherman expressed his opinion that the Resolution which the
Planning Commission approved and the Minutes reflect this action
and are consistent with one another.
Commissioner Alberio recalled that when Mr. Lorenzen brought his
chart, he had a red line and a blue (or green) line. The
Commission discussed it, compromised and opted for the upper, or
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 2
red, line and that there was a building involved in that area. He
did not remember that thinning was left to discretion of the Staff.
Chairman Katherman asked Director Bernard if Mr. Lorenzen had
agreed to the clarifications contained in the supplemental document
prepared by Staff.
Director Bernard replied that Mr. Lorenzen had not had an
opportunity to sign the agreement, but said he would sign it and
would return a signed copy to Staff.
Commissioner Mowlds suggested that the parties involved be given an
opportunity to review the agreement prepared by Staff and that the
Commission postpone the approval of the Minutes until after the
break.
Chairman Katherman wanted to make sure that everyone understood the
agreement is for clarifying the Minutes only, because the action
the Planning Commission took is final.
Director Bernard indicated that Staff was mainly interested in
making sure that the intent of the Planning commission was made
clear.
When asked by Chairman Katherman, Director Bernard confirmed that
both parties had the agreement and both would receive a signed copy
when they both signed it.
Chairman Katherman said that the Commissioners appeared to be in
agreement to table this until after the break. Without objection,
it was so ordered.
VB. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 178- ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO.
658; Steve Saparito, 28732 Highridge Road. (DJ)
Chairman Katherman mentioned that there was communication received
on this item regarding the noise standard contained in the
conditions of approval and asked if the Commissioners wished to
remove this item from the Consent Calendar for discussion. He
indicated that he head spoken to Planning Administrator Petru that
afternoon and she said that the City does not have a noise
ordinance. He confirmed that Rolling Hills Estates' noise
ordinance indicates a maximum of 55 decibels at the property line.
He further stated that there is a condition on the Conditional Use
Permit which limits the noise level at the property line to 65
decibels. He suggested that language be added to require
compliance in the event that a more restrictive requirement is
established by a subsequently adopted noise ordinance, so that this
project will not have non -conforming rights at 65 decibels.
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Commissioner Alberio reminded the Commission that if there is no
City noise ordinance, the State requirement would have to be met.
Chairman Katherman said that the State is 65 decibels and if a City
ordinance is adopted which is more restrictive than the State
guidelines, the City ordinance would apply to this project.
Commissioner Hayes added that Rolling Hills Estates does have a 55
decibel limit for residential but 'allows 65 decibels for commercial
and this is in Ms. Landau's letter. Commissioner Hayes pointed out
this in line with the State's requirement which the Commission
learned while investigating the Salvation Army project.
Commissioner Hayes made a motion to adopt the Resolutions for the
Negative Declaration and Conditional Use Permit, which was seconded
by Commissioner Mowlds. Approved, (5-0).
Planning Administrator Petru asked if the Commission had adopted
the Resolutions as written, and Chairman Katherman confirmed that
they had.
Chairman Katherman stated that he would be signing the Resolutions
for the both the Negative Declaration and the Conditional Use
Permit and that the 15 -day appeal period will begin the next day.
VC. ENCROACHMENT PERMIT NO. 22, SIGN PERMIT NO. 647•
Peninsula Rim Homeowners Association, Beechgate Drive.
(KK)
Commissioner Mowlds made a motion to approve Staff's
recommendation, which was seconded by commissioner Hayes.
Approved, (5-0).
CONTINUED BUSINESS
VIA. VARIANCE NO. 367, GRADING PERMIT NO. 1714• Mr. and Mrs.
Milan Veteska, 5503 Graylog Street. (FF)
Assistant Planner de Freitas read the Staff Report. This project
has been before the Commission twice before and has been continued
to tonight's hearing. Since the first two hearings, the applicant
has constructed a temporary frame silhouette of the proposed
addition to assist Staff and Commission analysis and to provide the
neighbors an opportunity to see how the project would look.
Staff's continued recommendation, after the construction of the
temporary frame, is to deny the application. This recommendation
is because all the findings for the variance cannot be made
(primarily because of view impairment for an adjacent neighbor) and
because the project does not satisfy several objectives of the
General Plan.
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PAGE 4
Chairman Katherman opened the public hearing and called the
applicant or the applicant's representative. f I
Irena Veteska, 5503 Graylog Street, Rancho Palos Verdes.
(applicant) Mrs. Veteska stated that five years ago she and her
family of three moved to Rancho Palos Verdes. After her son was
killed last year, she and her husband made the decision to build a
bigger house and have more children. They have a newborn now and
wish to have three more children, but the existing house is not
suited for children. Mrs. Veteska added that they like Rancho
Palos Verdes and do not want to move.
Mariana Groisman, P. O. Box 22067, Newhall, CA. (representative for
the applicant) Ms. Groisman stated that she designed the proposed
addition. Because the lot is irregular and has very steep slopes,
there was no other choice for expansion other than over the extreme
slope, which is why the Variance is being requested. She passed
around a drawing of the project and explained that the darkened
section represents the existing house and everything beyond is a
very steep slope. She explained that the addition was first
designed across the highest slope and then, following Staff's
advice, was modified. She stated that all the grading would be
done under the existing house. The grading would not take place on
the highest slope and would not change the natural slope because
they were very careful about that. she added that, unfortunately,
there is no other possibility of expanding the Veteska house
without blocking the very limited view of the neighbor next door.
She explained that they tried to plan the design to maintain the
neighbor's view and, as a matter of fact, developed the project
four feet lower than the required height limit to improve the
situation. She passed around to the Commissioners some photographs
to better illustrate the situation.
Commissioner Alberio said that he had visited the street above the
next door neighbor and there appears to be a land subsidence
problem. The photographs indicate that this project could cause
additional subsidence and he expressed concern that the house could
be damaged by this condition if it existed.
Ms. Groisman replied that grading was planned carefully and
necessary steps were take to avoid land subsidence.
Commissioner Alberio asked how steep the slope was in the area
where the addition is proposed.
Ms. Groisman said that parts of it are 2 to 1 (50%), while other
parts are steeper.
Commissioner Alberio asked if the steeper parts were 45 degrees and
Ms. Groisman replied that some parts were even more than 45 degrees
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 5
(100%) .
Another point Ms. Groisman wished to make was that the first time
this project was presented, there was a misunderstanding as to how
many property's views would be' affected and it really is only one
neighbor.
Commissioner Mowlds commented that Ms. Groisman had said the next
door neighbor presently had an extremely limited view, but he
reported that he was at the property the day before and he could
see the whole city to downtown Los Angeles.
Ms. Groisman answered that this is the view from the corner of the
property. She added that the next door neighbor, in his letter to
the Planning Commission, mentioned that he has a view from his
kitchen, but from that position there is a very limited view.
Commissioner Mowlds remarked that Ms. Groisman stated that this
project only affects one property. He said the City's Code states
that view impairment from only one property can still be considered
significant. Commissioner Mowlds added that the Rancho Palos
Verdes Code prohibits construction of buildings on extreme slopes
and that is what is being proposed, with caissons and columns
coming out of the ground.
Ms. Groisman responded that the house next door is built in this
same fashion.
Commissioner Mowlds explained that, with the adoption of the
Development Code in 1975, these structures are now considered to be
non-conforming to the Code.
Ms. Groisman repeated that there is no other way to develop this
property.
Ms. Groisman replied that she was guided by the Staff as to how
best to expand the residence, in light of the difficult topographic
conditions on the site.
Commissioner Lorenzen described his visit to the next door
neighbor's house and that the view from his kitchen and living room
is very nice view. The temporary frame indicates that if this
structure was built, the property owner would be looking at a solid
wall. To keep his view, he would have to add a second story.
Rollin Sturgeon, 5456 Bayridge Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Sturgeon expressed his opinion that the applicants have been given
bad advice regarding enlarging this house on this particular lot.
He further set forth his concerns that the enlargement of this
house will not be good for the neighborhood because when this big
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 6
house, which he feels is unattractive, is resold, it will appeal to
somebody who wants a multiple family structure, which would
negatively impact the neighborhood.
Richard Hanson, 5430 Bayridge Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Hanson stated that he has lived at this location for 32 years and
also owns the house across the street at 5431 Bayridge Road. He
reported that he sent a letter of November 22, 1993, objecting to
the height of the proposed project,which would eliminate a
significant part of his view. With the height reduction of four
feet, the situation is improved. He expressed his opinion that
this addition would not be in character with the rest of the houses
in the neighborhood and that the heavy equipment necessary to
install the caisson foundation for the addition would destroy a lot
of the vegetation on the fragile hillside. He recommended that the
project not be allowed.
Stewart Widoff, 5502 Graylog Street, Rancho Palos Verdes. He
confirmed that he has a great view of the Los Angeles basin from
his back yard and from the living room and kitchen. If the
proposed plans are approved, his view will be completely eliminated
and the three houses above him would lose their canyon view,
although they would retain some of their city view. According to
Staff, similar house plans were submitted about a year ago and
never even reached the Planning Commission; they were turned down
at the onset. If a variance is granted to this applicant to block
his view, he could then get a variance to build a second story
which would block his neighbor's view and there could be a chain
reaction of variances. Mr. Widoff reported that he had two letters
from reactors indicating that the proposed addition's elimination
of his view would reduce his property value from $15,000 to
$50,000.
Commissioner Hayes made a motion to close the public hearing which
was seconded by Commissioner Alberio. Approved by acclamation.
Commissioner Mowlds supports the
Variance, because the City does
slope and a Variance should not
the view of a neighbor.
Staff recommendation to deny the
not allow building on an extreme
be granted which would eliminate
The recording secretary indicated there was one additional speaker
who had completed a Request to Speak form before the meeting began,
but had been missed during the public hearing.
Commissioner Alberio made a motion to re -open the public hearing
and it was seconded by Commissioner Hayes. Approved by
acclamation.
Dean Herbrandson, 5519 Bayridge Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 7
Herbrandson informed the Commission that he has lived in the
neighborhood for three years and has a wonderful view. He opposes
the project because the size and architectural style of the
addition would not be compatible with the neighborhood and,
although his view would not be directly blocked, he would look down
at the proposed addition's 750 sq. ft. glass skylight. Because his
view is of distant lights down the hill and the foreground is
completely black, the light from this skylight would lessen the
view quality. He also expressed concerned about building into the
canyon's sensitive eco -system; it is a preserved area and should
remain that way. He also added that his wife looked at the contour
lines on the project plans and reported that the slope for the
proposed addition is about 62%. Mr. Herbrandson explained that he
has nothing against the Veteska's and believes that the house would
be ideal for another location with flatter ground.
Ms. Groisman clarified that, regarding square footage, the plan met
the standards, as far as setbacks, open space, etc.
Commissioner Alberio made a motion to close the public hearing and
it was seconded by Commissioner Hayes. Approved by acclamation.
Commissioner Alberio stated that this addition is proposed to be
built on an extreme slope, which the Code prohibits. Because of
that fact, along with the view impairment of the next door
neighbor, he felt that the Variance should be denied. He also
observed, though he admitted it would be no reason to reject the
addition, that there will be no yard in which the children could
play.
Commissioner Lorenzen agreed that with the extreme slope this was
not a very useable lot, and combined the blocking of the neighbor's
view, it appeared to him that denial is the correct action.
Commissioner Hayes concurred with Commissioners Alberio and
Lorenzen's comments
Commissioner Hayes made a motion to accept Staff's recommendation
to deny the Variance and the Grading Permit and the motion was
seconded by Commissioner Lorenzen.
Before a vote was taken, Chairman Katherman requested information
from Assistant Planner de Freitas. Since the architect (Ms.
Groisman) had indicated that she had been working with Staff on the
design, Chairman Katherman asked if there were any alternative
design schemes suggested, even one that would require a different
type of variance.
Assistant Planner de Freitas replied that the previous discussions
between the applicant did not include him personally. However, he
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 8
said it was his opinion that, because of the difficulty of the
topography of the lot and the configuration of the existing
structure, in order to design a project that would not require a
Variance, they would have to place the addition under the existing
footprint, which would not increase the lot coverage.
Chairman Katherman expressed his sympathy on behalf of the
Commission to the applicant, who wishes to expand her home, but has
a very difficult site. For the Commission to approve a Variance,
one of the findings is that the action would not be detrimental or
injurious to the adjoining property owner. However, the Commission
cannot make this finding. His only suggestion was to seek an
alternate design or site for this project.
Without objection, the motion on the floor was approved. Chairman
Katherman stated that he would be signing the Resolution that
evening and the 15 -day appeal period would commence the following
day.
VIB. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 119 - REVISION "All,
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT NO. 656• PacTel, 30940
Hawthorne Boulevard. (DJ)
Commissioner Hayes excused herself from the dais, because of the
proximity of her home to this site. '
Associate Planner Jerex was not present because of an injury. In
her absence, Planning Administrator Petru read the Staff Report.
The Commission first heard this item on November 9, 1993, and at
that public hearing, Staff and the applicant were given specific
directions to follow up on nine issues of concern. The issues were
researched and brought back on December 14, 1993. However, due to
a lack of quorum at that meeting, the Commission continued the item
to January 11, 1994. Since that time, Staff and the applicant have
had additional time to look over the proposed conditions of
approval and the applicant has raised some questions regarding the
specific language of a few of the conditions.
The applicant's first question involved Condition #4. Staff
revised this language to clarify that, if there is an increase in
the power level and/or a change of the usage of the antennas on the
monopole, a revision to the Conditional Use Permit would be
required. An attempt has been made to be more specific, since the
word "change" is such a generic term.
The applicant's second concern was that there was nothing specified
in the conditions regarding emergency situations. As a result,
Condition #6 was added which states that in the case of a natural
disaster or similar emergency, PacTel, at the discretion of the
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 9
City Manager, or his designee, may be permitted the temporary
erection of antennas on the monopole on the City Hall site.
Permission would be obtained within a specific time frame set by
the City Manager or his designee and, if PacTel did not comply with
this deadline, the Conditional Use Permit could be subject to
revocation.
In addition, on November 9, 1993, the Commission asked that a
visual analysis be prepared for the Commission that showed not only
the antennas proposed by PacTel, but also those proposed by L.A.
Cellular and NexTel. The applicant has provided these graphics and
they were included in the agenda packets this evening.
Commissioner Alberio asked about the comparison of this site to the
one in Yorba Linda and Planning Administrator Petru indicated that
this information was included in the packets for the December 14,
1993 meeting. She also indicated that the amount of radio waves
produced at the Yorba Linda site were well under Federal emission
standards.
Dean Brown, The Planning consortium, 111 Town & Country Road, #37,
Orange, CA. (Land Use Agent for PacTel Cellular) At the last
hearing, the Commission requested an additional visualization of
all the future antenna changeouts that may occur on the monopole.
Even though PacTel had no control over the additional antennas
approved by City Staff for L. A. Cellular or NexTel and receives no
revenue from these additional users, PacTel has been, made
responsible for analyzing the visual and cumulative health impacts
of the existing, approved antennas, as well as potential changes
and impacts. PacTel has now prepared three computer visual
simulations at considerable expense in order to provide Staff and
the Commission with the best estimate of what the monopole will
look like with everyone's antennas, including future antennas as
shown.
He re-emphasized that PacTel's Cellular's antennas modifications
involve taking off three omnidirectional slender whip antennas that
are pointed in the upward fashion and attaching ten channel
antennas to the existing triangular support structure at the top of
the monopole and attaching one dish antenna. The size of the dish
antenna has been reduced from 61 to 41 to reduce the mass of the
antennas, while providing the smallest antennas that still be
functional. These modifications lower the overall height of the
antennas and reduce the power levels of the radio wave emissions.
L.A. Cellular and NexTel received administrative approvals for
their antennas and, apparently, now Southern California Edison
wishes to add three small whip antennas. Since PacTel has been
required to go through a lengthy Conditional Use Permit process,
that analyzes not only the aesthetics but the health effects, it
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 18
seems reasonable that when other users came on the monopole they
would have to do the same.
The local radio club technical experts reviewed the technical data,
including the report comparing this facility with the one in Yorba
Linda that operates at significantly higher power levels, and it is
their opinion that neither facility poses health risks.
PacTel Cellular entered into a lease with the City in 1988. The
City Attorney has indicated that the monopole cannot be moved or be
lowered in height unless the City constructs a new City Hall.
There were six City Council hearings in 1988 during which local
residents provided input and the City decided on the current
location and height. PacTel Cellular has complied with all of
Staff's and the Commission's requests and has renegotiated a new
lease with the City's Finance Director. In addition, PacTel has
met with local resident groups to discuss visual and health
impacts.
PacTel has reviewed the revised conditions and agrees with
Condition #6 regarding emergency situations except that it only
addresses additional antennas, not more channels or the incremental
power increase needed for those channels. In an emergency
situation, typically, additional antennas are not added, although
it might be necessary to add an additional microwave dish to
provide a microwave line rather than a land line if the land lines
have been severed by an earthquake or a fire. Therefore, in an
emergency, PacTel would be requesting to increase the power level
at 100 watts per additional channel and possibly an additional
microwave dish, but the new Condition #6 only refers to additional
antennas.
Commissioner Mowlds suggested that Condition #7 be added stating
that, in case of a natural disaster, PacTel should be allowed to
add an additional microwave dish, increase the power level, and the
number of channels for five days without previous written
permission from the City. After the emergency has passed, formal
approval must be given by the city Manager or his designee.
Mr. Brown said that PacTel currently has 13 channels operating. If
they wanted to increase channels and increase power by 100 watts
for each channel, would PacTel be required to come back to the
Planning commission for approval? If so, this process could take
three to six months and, during that time frame, cellular traffic
may drop and the extra channel would not be needed by then. This
is the technical aspect of how these cell sites work.
Commissioner Mowlds asked the number of channels that PacTel will
need in two years.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
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PAGE 11
•
•
Mr. Brown said 15 channels, and if all the development projects
along the Coastline go forward, with everyone using cellular
phones, it is possible they would need more than 15.
Commissioner Mowlds asked if approval for 15 channels at this time
would mean that PacTel would not have to come back for further
approval. He added that the City would want additional revenue for
the additional channels requested and stated that he assumed PacTel
is paying by the channel.
Mr. Brown replied that the contract requires that PacTel pay an
annual fee, plus CPI increases. The recently renegotiated lease
with the City Finance Director has resulted in an increase in the
annual payments from $22,500 to $25,500, just for the minor antenna
modifications. None of their PacTel's leases, at 300 sites,
provide for payment per channel, since this number can vary
throughout the year. He added that PacTel will not need any
additional space within the City Hall building, where the
electronic equipment is kept, nor will additional antennas be
needed.
Commissioner Lorenzen asked whether the placement of the different
layers of antennas on the poles required minimum space between
them, or if more antennas could be placed between the current ones.
Mr. Brown replied that there is a required distance, especially
between the whip antennas. The L.A. Cellular layer of antennas
under PacTel's antennas was specifically set to avoid conflict and
NexTells antennas, which are not on the monopole yet, will require
that same spacing.
Commissioner Lorenzen questioned whether or not another level of
antennas could be added on the pole.
Mr. Brown answered that he thought the antennas were about as low
as cellular carriers could go because the lowest one is just above
the height of the roof of City Hall.
Jeff Cameron, 30963 Via La Cresta, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Cameron is the President of the Sunset Ridge Homeowners Association
and had spoken at two recent hearings against the monopole itself
and any additions to it. He added that their arguments are clear
and concise and a matter of record so there is no need to be
redundant; however, he did want to mention that the neighbors feel
they have little power in this situation. He requested that a
correction be made on the photo board to show that the view from
the balcony of the lower right corner is from his property, not
30961 Via La Cresta, as was indicated.
Commissioner Alberio asked if Mr. Cameron was worried about any
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
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PAGE 12
health hazards created by the monopole.
Mr. Cameron replied that he had lived in the Los Angeles basin all
his life, where there are hazards in the air everywhere, and felt
he is far enough away from the pole to be unconcerned, especially
because the applicant seems to have determined that there is no
health risk. He repeated that the residents' objection is to
impairment of their views, the by-product of which is a decrease in
their property values.
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Ms. Larue
related that she began attending City Council meetings in 1988 and
did not recall any public hearings about this monopole. She
expressed her opinion that the monopole is an abomination and that
she is very much concerned about the health hazards.
Director Bernard stated that the City files indicate that there was
a public hearing on March 1, 1988, and that the Council did approve
an 801 monopole, at that time.
Dean Brown, in rebuttal, commented that these facilities offer
substantial public safety benefits. They have proved to be very
valuable in emergency situations and there are hundreds of
thousands of calls made from cellular phones every year that report
emergency situations. He added that PacTel is required to come
back to the Commission regularly to report on new technology. If
this new technology will enable PacTel to lower the height of the
monopole to reduce the visual impacts and to reduce the effective
radiated power of the signals being produced, this will be done.
Chairman Katherman asked Mr. Brown if he had an option to improve
Mr. Cameron's view, something that hadn't already been mentioned.
Mr. Brown responded that PacTel's agreement with the City required
them to relocate the monopole if a new City Hall is built and that
they would be happy to incorporate their antennas into the design
of the new structure, possibly a screened roof mounted
configuration.
Chairman Katherman asked if PacTel's antennas could be moved down
the pole and Mr. Brown replied this was not possible without
conflicting with the other users.
Commissioner Alberio made a motion to close the public hearing and
it was seconded by commissioner Lorenzen. Approved by acclamation.
Commissioner Alberio compared the determination that the monopole
poses no health risk to the fact that, in the past, both asbestos
and breathing secondary smoke were considered safe. He wanted to
go on record that he was concerned about the health hazard of these
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 13
•
antennas.
Ll
Commissioner Lorenzen asked Staff if the City has committed on the
location for NexTells antennas.
Planning Administrator Petru responded that a lease was signed with
NexTel almost a year ago but no antennas have been installed yet,
even though they are paying the City monthly.
Commissioner Lorenzen asked if this lease is renewed annually and
could they be removed.
Planning Administrator Petru answered that the lease runs until a
modification is made to the configuration and they cannot be
removed, unless a new City Hall is constructed.
Commissioner Mowlds said that he remembered the public hearing for
the original installation of the monopole. On the question of
health risk, he felt reassured by the fact that there will be less
emissions with PacTel's modifications and by discussions with city
Councilman Byrd, who he considers an expert in this field, and
findings of the U. S. Navy study in San Diego. He added that this
site was chosen carefully in 1988 and Mel Hughes, who is a member
of the local radio club, was involved in the approval at that time.
Director Bernard suggested making the following changes to Exhibit
"All Conditions of Approval. For Condition #4, on the third line
which begins "any increases in power levels and/or changes in
usage...", add "other than for natural disasters or similar
emergency situations". For Condition #6, change it to read "in
case of natural disaster or similar emergency situation and, at the
discretion of the City Manager or his designee, be permitted to
erect temporary antennas and related ground equipment, and/or
increase the power levels on and for the monopole. Said antennas
shall be removed within the time parameters authorized by the City
Manager or his designee, or this Conditional Use Permit may be
subject to revocation". He also recommended adding Condition #7 as
per Commissioner Mowlds suggestion above stating that, "In case of
a natural disaster, PacTel should be allowed to add an additional
microwave dish, increase the power level, and the number of
channels for five days without permission. After that period,
approval must be given by the city Manager or his designee."
Chairman Katherman asked Mr. Brown if he had any objections or
comments to these suggestion conditions of approval recommended by
Staff.
Mr. Brown responded by asking if it would be possible to set a
limit for normal operation of 15 channels instead of the 13
currently in use without having to come back for a modification to
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 14
the Conditional Use Permit.
Chairman Katherman answered that it was his opinion that it would
not be necessary to have a public hearing for what he would view as
an insignificant increase.
Director Bernard said that Staff had no problem if there was a
reasonable request.
Chairman Katherman clarified that these modifications would be take
place inside City Hall, not on the pole.
Director Bernard said the channels should be limited to 15 and a
revision would be required to exceed that.
Planning Administrator Petru suggested the following language:
"Any increase beyond 15 channels, not to exceed of 100 watts per
channel, shall require a separate revision to this Conditional Use
Permit. She also suggested another change regarding Condition #6
to add "the related ground equipment and/or increase in the
suggested power levels and channels".
Chairman Katherman commented that, although he appreciated the
asbestos argument, he is swayed by the fact that the radio wave
emissions are actually being decreased, so any possible health
risks would be diminished, if not eliminated. Moreover, the
Commission has to deal with the reality of the lease commitments
the City has made. He also expressed sympathy to Mr. Cameron and
wondered whether there could be some other way of screening the
pole. He added that denying this request would not cause the
removal of the pole and the City has an obligation to meet the
technological requirements of the cell site, so he would in favor
of approving the Conditional Use Permit, as modified, and asked for
a motion to that effect.
Commissioner Alberio said that he still had reservations about the
health risks and mentioned information from the Wall Street Journal
regarding electro magnetic fields causing cancer and other health
problems.
Commissioner Mowlds made a motion to adopt the Negative Declaration
for Environmental Assessment No. 656 and it was seconded by
Chairman Katherman. Approved (3-1-1) with Commissioner Alberio
dissenting and Commissioner Hayes abstaining as she had excused
herself from the discussion because of the proximity of her home to
the site.
Commissioner Mowlds made a motion to approve Conditional Use Permit
No. 119 - Revision "A" and it was seconded by Commissioner
Lorenzen.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 15
Before a vote was taken, Planning Administrator Petru proposed
clarifying language for Condition #7: "If the applicant is unable
to obtain approval from the City Manager or his designee during a
natural disaster or other emergency situation, the applicant shall
obtain written authorization from the City within five working days
of the event".
Approved (3-1-1) with Commissioner Alberio dissenting and
Commissioner Hayes abstaining as she had excused herself from the
discussion because of the proximity of her home to the site.
Chairman Katherman stated that he would be signing both Resolutions
that evening and that the 15 -day appeal period will commence the
following day.
Planning Administrator Petru said that she failed to mention during
the Staff Report that the Staff is still seeking direction from the
Commission on the issue of additional antennas.
Chairman Katherman replied that other cellular companies should go
through the same public process. The public needs to be notified
and included.
Commissioner Mowlds made a motion that if any of the other
companies elect to modify their antennas, they must be reviewed by
the Planning commission as a Conditional Use Permit or Revision
(which would require a public hearing) and it was seconded by
Chairman Katherman. Approved (4-0-1) with commissioner Hayes
abstaining as she had excused herself from the discussion because
of the proximity of her home to the site.
Break from 9:25 to 9:47 P.M., at which time, there was a brief
caucus in the back room between Scott Yanofsky (the landowner's
representative), Andy and Gail Lorenzen, Director Bernard, Planning
Administrator Petru, Chairman Katherman and Commissioner Alberio
(two of the three members of the Subcommittee), and Lois Larue.
CONSENT CALENDAR
VA. Minutes of December 6, 1993. (continued discussion)
Director Bernard reported that during the discussion of the
clarifying agreement, each party had some difference with one of
the sections in the agreement so no final agreement was reached.
Chairman Katherman stated that each party would have one minute to
restate their case.
Angus Lorenzen, 15 Diamonte Lane, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Lorenzen said there is a minor problem with understanding intent of
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 16
the Planning Commission from the December 6, 1993 meeting. When he
proposed the compromise solution, he and his neighbors believed it
was the intent of the Commission to accept that compromise as the
basis for the trimming of the trees. The Staff Report had proposed
removing approximately seven trees with no trimming of the others.
He proposed in the compromise that three additional trees be
removed and that trees be trimmed lightly in this area (pointed to
the left side of his drawing) to return views of the San Pedro
channel and down to a lower level (pointed again) that would return
the Long Beach Vincent Thomas Bridge views. The Resolution and the
Conditions are vague, which puts the burden of the decision on the
Staff. Mr. Lorenzen mentioned the letter he had written asking the
Commission to provide the Staff with more specific direction.
Scott Yanofsky, 1142 Manhattan Avenue, #311, Manhattan Beach. Mr.
Yanofsky stated that the process has already begun and close to
$10,000 has been spent on cutting trees. Approximately eight trees
have been removed on Diamonte Lane. The north slope has been
worked on and the north ridge of the property. He stated his
opinion that Mr. Lorenzen's drawing was unclear and not to scale.
Mr. Yanofsky said he was willing to talk further with Mr. Lorenzen
and expressed his desire to continue the process, which would mean
Staff would review the progress so far. He said that if more
trimming is needed, it will be done, and added that all the
Commission's requirements will be met.
Commissioner Mowlds indicated that it was difficult to pinpoint the
trees affected and that he had suggested at the last meeting that
a chart be made. He is concerned about confusion and controversy
into the future.
Mr. Yanofsky said that, in reviewing the minutes, it seemed like
the Lorenzen's had indicated the channel was the most important
view to them. By cutting down the trees on Diamonte Lane, it would
expose this view. By trimming the trees near the front door of the
house, a small amount of the channel view was exposed, as well as
the Vincent Thomas Bridge view. He expressed his opinion that any
more changes to the trees should be left to the discretion of
Staff.
Commissioner Mowlds repeated that it was important to make the
situation as clear as possible and that the approval of the
December 6, 1993 minutes will be the last issue for the Planning
Commission. After that, it would become a matter for the View
Restoration Committee.
Mr. Yanofsky said there was one particular tree that was talked
about in the meeting that is being removed. He repeated his
willingness to continue with the process and comply in any way
necessary.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 17
Chairman Katherman remembered that Associate Planner Silverman had
suggested using a series of photographs rather than a drawing,
because the sheer volume of trees made it impossible to physically
locate them all. In addition, the thinning and removal process
would be iterative; since, as foliage is removed, it may reveal
trees behind that also block the view. Indicating it was also his
recollection, Chairman Katherman read from the minutes of December
6,1993, top of page 9: "Mr. Lorenzen also requested minor trimming
in a grove of eucalyptus and a grove of pines that would contribute
to restoration of his harbor/Vincent Thomas Bridge view. He
indicated these two groups of trees on the photo board". Chairman
Katherman's memory was that Staff would review the trimming process
in this area of the property and that Commission had asked that
only three additional trees be completely removed.
Commissioner Alberio agreed that Staff was given some discretion to
go in the field and to work with both parties.
Commissioner Hayes added that she did remember the problem of trees
behind trees, i.e., finding more trees to be trimmed after the
trimming started.
Comm ' issioner Alberio suggested that an exact transcription of the
tape might be helpful.
Director Bernard suggested that approval of the December 6, 1993
Minutes be postponed until the next meeting, when a complete
verbatim transcription of that meeting could be provided.
Chairman Katherman announced that consideration of December 6, 1993
Minutes would be continued to the January 25, 1994 meeting and
returned to the regular agenda order.
VIC. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 96 - REVISION "B" AND
MISCELLANEOUS HEARING; St. John Fisher Catholic Church,
5448 Crest Road. (KK)
Chairman Katherman excused himself because he has performed work
for the Catholic Archdiocese on other projects. He turned the
chair over to Co -Vice Chairperson Alberio.
The Staff Report was read by Assistant Planner Klopfenstein. St.
John Fisher Church has submitted Conditional Use Permit No. 96,
Revision "B" and a Miscellaneous Hearing to expand the existing
sanctuary, and add an elevator and an 851 tower with a cross. At
the December 14, 1993 Planning Commission meeting, the concerns
expressed by the adjacent neighbors centered on the proposed bell
tower, particularly its height, mass, visibility from surrounding
properties, potential night-time illumination and noise that would
be created by the ringing of bells. The Commission directed Staff
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 18
•
•
to conduct a visual analysis of the bell tower using helium
balloons prior to this meeting. on January 4, 1994, Staff held a
meeting at the St. John Fisher Church to view an estimation of the
height of the proposed bell tower.
Based on the results of the "balloon test", Staff feels that the
potential adverse impacts of the tower could be mitigated through
a redesign of the bell tower and placement of the following
conditions:
1. Reduce the height of the bell tower to 301 with a 101 cross
above it, for a maximum combined height of 401-011.
2. The bells shown on the plans for the tower shall be decorative
only, and rendered inoperable, and there shall be no "actual"
ringing of bells. Staff recommends that, if allowed, a
recorded tape of bells should be used only on Sundays and
special religious holidays (as approved by the Director), and
be further limited to the hours of 8:00 A.M. to 5:00 P.M. on
those days, and not to exceed 65 decibels as measured at the
adjacent residential property lines.
3. Any illumination of the bell tower shall require a subsequent
Site Plan Review application, and shall be subject to the
review and approval by the Director of Planning, Building and
Code Enforcement. Staff recommends, again if allowed, that
illumination of the tower shall not exceed 10:00 P.M., except
as permitted by the City for special occasions.
Staff recommends approval of the project subject to these modified
conditions, attached as Exhibit "A" of the Staff Report.
Mr. Roy Young, 118 S. Catalina Avenue, Redondo Beach, CA.
(architect for the project) Mr. Young stated that they have read
the conditions and he wished to address Condition #3, which limits
the size of the bell tower to 100 sq. ft. in area and 301, as
measured from the lowest foundation adjacent to the building to the
top of the tower and the maximum 101 cross may be affixed to the
top of the bell tower, for a maximum combined height of 401. His
concern is that these conditions compromise the aesthetics of the
project. He suggested that it is not appropriate for a bell tower
to be as low as 301, and would consider a 651 tower to be more
appropriate.
Commissioner Mowlds asked Mr. Young about his professional
experience and to give his opinion about the "out of scale" comment
made by Staff.
Mr. Young replied that he has been a licensed architect since 1959
and considers himself an expert at determining whether an
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 19
architectural element is "out of scale"
project. He feels the 301 tower would be
with the church building.
with the rest of the
very much "out of scale"
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Young what is used for a comparison
in determining "out of scale" and Mr. Young said the size of human
beings, buildings and other things people regularly come in contact
with, the same way a room is determined to be large or small, etc.
Commissioner Alberio asked about the normal height of church
towers.
Mr. Young gave examples of two Catholic churches in the South Bay:
St. Lawrence Martyr in Redondo Beach has 751 twin towers and Holy
Trinity in San Pedro has a 1001 tower.
Commissioner Hayes suggested that at the 301 height, possibly the
sauare footaae would have to be less for balance.
Mr. Young agreed, and, conversely, a 651 tower would have to have
more area than 100 sq. ft. and he recommended approximately 400 sq.
ft.
Monsignor Gill, 5448 Crest Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. (applicant)
Monsignor Gill expressed his appreciation to the Staff on the
efforts they made at the site measuring with the balloons under
very windy conditions. He explained that the building currently
being used as the church was intended to be converted to a social
hall later and a new, permanent church building erected, but
economic conditions have changed. Now the plan is to modify this
building so that it is functionally and architecturally more like
a church. He indicated that he agreed with the architect that a
651 height for the bell tower would be acceptable because of
proportion of the buildings, but also because other churches on the
hill have high towers. He gave examples of other towers such as
the Lutheran Church at 731, the Baptist church at 681 and the
Wayfarer's Chapel at 601.
Bob Cooper, 25 San Clemente Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr. Cooper
stated that he lives in the Island View Development across from St.
John Fisher Church and that his children attend St. John Fisher
School. He indicated that he did not find a 651 tower offensive
and felt that it is in keeping with other facilities in the area,
particularly the Baptist and Morman Churches on Crestridge Road,
which have towers 651 or higher and are located adjacent to
residential areas.
Commissioner Alberio asked Mr. Cooper his opinion on the ringing of
bells.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 20
Mr. Cooper replied that he thought that the height of the tower was
more the issue and that it was his understanding that a carillon
would be used. He recommended that the time be extended from 5:00
to 6:00 PM on Sunday evening because there is a very well attended
mass at that time.
Lorna Burrell, 1 Park Place, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mrs. Burrell
stated that she lives south of the church and enjoys the ringing of
bells. She related that when she attended UCLA, bells rang all the
time and she believed it provided a tranquil atmosphere. She added
that she felt real bells would be preferable to a simulation.
Allan Colman, 18 Mela Lane, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr. Colman stated
that his home is in the Villa Verde area, diagonally across from
the church. He is representing the Homeowners Association, who
oppose anything being developed above 30' and do not want
illumination or sound from the tower at any time. He emphasized
that this project will provide visual and noise pollution and
nothing more. He commented that he understood, from talking to
Staff, that the applicant originally intended the tower to provide
an identity on the site for the expanded sanctuary. He felt this
tower was more like a sign identifying the church to the entire
peninsula since it will be visible for a great distance.
He expressed his opinion this project is offensive and that
destruction of the character of the neighborhood is at risk, even
though the church has existed for years in relative harmony with
the neighborhood. He added that the other steeples referred to are
clearly in areas of more mixed use and don't have the impact on
wide areas of residential neighborhoods.
Mr. Colman said that State law requires that in granting any
exception to find at least three things: Ill Is it materially
detrimental to the surrounding properties (he feels it is), {2}
Is it contrary to the objectives of the general plan (he believes
this will impair the site of perhaps hundreds of people) and {3} Is
it necessary for the preservation and enjoyment of the substantial
property right of the applicant which right is also possessed by
others in the neighborhood (he feels the answers is no).
Mr. Colman also addressed the issue of "scale". Although he did
not believe the architect was wrong in the scale of the bell tower
to the church, the scale is totally wrong in connection with the
surrounding neighborhood. He explained that he was a planning
director, redevelopment agency director, and county administrator
for 20 years in the cities of San Diego, Inglewood, and San Mateo
and in Fresno county, and consideration of the neighborhood in
nonconforming uses was always a key concern.
Mr. Colman provided photographs mounted on a board showing a church
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 21
in Rolling Hills Estates currently under construction just north of
the corner of Crenshaw Boulevard and Palos Verdes Drive North with
a 601 tower with a 201 cross on top of it. Since the cross had not
yet been added, he explained that he had drawn in the 801 height
and taken photographs from 4001 and from 3001 away from the tower.
Another photograph showed the view of the proposed St. John Fisher
tower from the houses at #6 and #8 Mela Lane, a distance of
approximately 3501 away. Mr. Colman expressed his opinion that
this photograph showed the tremendous impact this tower would have
on the adjacent neighbors, even at 401 in height.
Commissioner Mowlds asked Mr. Colman if he was at home when the
balloons were up.
Mr. Colman said that, unfortunately, when he was there, the wind
was blowing so badly, the balloons were about 401 off the ground
and never went straight up, but if they had, they would have been
at about the height indicated in one of his pictures.
There was a discussion between Commissioner Mowlds and Mr. Colman
regarding the zoning in this area. The determination was
ultimately made that the subject property is in an Institutional
zone. In addition, when this land was part of Los Angeles County,
it was an institutional nonconforming use.
Douglas Butler, 5417 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Butler stated that he lives adjacent to the church and is
representing the Rancho Crest Homeowners Association, which owns
and maintains the open space between the homes and the church. Mr.
Butler expressed his opinion that St. John Fisher is a unique site
because it is at the crest of a hill, surrounded by homes. He felt
it was appropriate to compare it to St. Lawrence in Redondo Beach,
since it is in a urban area, facing apartment houses, and Pacific
Coast Highway and shopping centers are one block away.
He stated that this project is out of character for the
neighborhood, which is quiet and rural. He mentioned other
churches in the neighborhood that do not have bell towers at all,
for example, Ascension Lutheran Church on Silver Spur, St. Paul's
Lutheran Church Palos Verdes Drive West. Mr. Butler passed around
photographs to the Commission showing the height of the balloon and
some pictures of Ascension and St. Lawrence churches.
He listed three problems with the proposed tower, the height and
mass, the sound, and lighting. The Rancho Crest Homeowner
Association would not oppose a tower of 301 with a 101 cross, but
would request that the church plant trees so the tower and cross
would not be seen off-site from neighboring homes. However, the
Association is strongly against bells or additional lighting. He
added that if sound is allowed, the 65 decibel level being
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 22
discussed is too loud.
Commissioner Alberio asked if the church or the subdivision was
there first, and Mr. Butler indicated that the church was.
Commissioner Alberio asked if he did not anticipate there could
have been bells and towers.
Mr. Butler said he knew there was a church there, but it was well
hidden from view. He realized there would be some be noise from
the church, but had never considered that there might be a bell
tower.
Alan Weissman, 5306 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Weissman's concerns are about the bell tower and related issues.
He recalled that when he was president of the Homeowners
Association in 1986, they were cooperative with the City in giving
up curbs and street cleaning in order to maintain a rural
atmosphere of their neighborhood. He felt that a tower, whether it
is 85 or 651, violated that rural atmosphere. Mr. Weissman moved
to the neighborhood in early 1985 and was told by the real estate
broker and the developer that there would not be any bell tower or
steeples at the church.
Carl Anselmo, 5249 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Anselmo, stated that he first moved to the neighborhood in May 1984
and feels the proposed 65 decibel level is too high. He
distributed to the commission and Staff a table which lists the
sound levels of common activities. He indicated that he believes
the noise level on his street is probably about 30 to 35 decibels
and that, if the tower does have bells or recorded music, the
maximum sound level should be reduced substantially below 65
decibels.
Fred Wright, 5327 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Wright stated that he is a member of the Rancho Crest Homeowners
Association and has lived in the neighborhood since 1981. He
explained that St. John Fisher has been a good neighbor and that
the only thing that has bothered him is the parking lot lights.
Therefore, he is concerned about lighting of the tower. He
indicated that he is not bothered by the proposed height (65f) of
the tower.
Joan Olenick, 5431 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
olenick purchased her home in 1980 and at that time drove to the
site on Saturday and Sunday specifically to listen for noise from
the church and eventually found out there were no church bells.
She added that many residents in the Island View area were not
noticed about the hearing.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 23
•
•
Planning Administrator Petru explained that the legal notification
area is a 500' radius which included only the first row of homes
along Crenshaw Boulevard.
Stan Olenick, 5431 Valley View Road, Rancho Palos Verdes. Mr.
Olenick expressed opposition to ringing or recorded bells because
his work requires him to work many weekends and often all night;
therefore, his sleep is precious to him. He recalled an incident
when they were having an open house after they had been living in
the neighborhood about a year. They had a band consisting of a
guitar and keyboard band which was practicing in the afternoon with
no amplifier. Two of the St. John Fisher sisters came by and asked
if they could stop the music until their services were finished.
They complied and would like the same consideration from the
church.
There was a break from 11:10 to 11:17 PM
Roy Young rebutted by saying that many times churches are located
in residential areas and that trees should not be used to conceal
buildings, but to enhance their appearance. He surmised that the
bells, rather than the tower, seem to be the most troublesome
issue.
Notion made to close the public hearing by Commissioner Mowlds and
seconded by Commissioner Hayes. Approved, (4-0).
Commissioner Mowlds opined that, based on his many years of
construction experience, a 101 square obelisk would not be massive.
He also felt that a 301 tower would be too short and that a
compromise height of 651 seemed fair. The parking lot lighting
appeared to be a valid problem, which could be solved by shielding
and directing the lights away from the residences. He added that
possibly the noise at 65 decibels is too loud, especially carrying
down into the valley.
Commissioner Mowlds made a motion to approve a 651 cross tower with
no bells or amplified sound. He suggested that a noise study be
conducted and that the bells be dealt with separately at a later
time. commissioner Hayes seconded the motion.
Commissioner Lorenzen agreed on the 651 tower height and that the
sound issue was serious. He stressed that lighting should be
regulated so it is turned off at a decent hour. The proposed time
of 10:00 PM seemed late, although the lights could be directed so
they did not disturb the neighbors.
Monsignor Gill came forward to mention that their lights already
have time and directional restrictions and that they will comply
with recommendations regarding additional lighting. He added that
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 24
the 10:00 PM time is necessary because that is the usual completion
time of their evening activities.
Commissioner Alberio asked if the compromise about the 651 tower
height was acceptable with the Monsignor, and he said it was.
Commissioner Alberio asked about the bells.
Monsignor Gill explained that if bells are allowed, they would be
used as part of the religious liturgy; for example, during funerals
it is customary to toll the bells for the deceased. Funerals could
be at many different times and this would have to be considered in
the time restrictions for ringing the bells. Also, sometimes the
President of the United States asks all churches to ring bells for
special occasions, which wouldn't necessarily follow the restricted
schedule. He stated that he understood the decibel level concern
and is willing to be cooperative.
Planning Administrator Petru suggested modifying Condition #3 to
reflect that "the cross tower shall not exceed 100 sq. ft in area
and shall not exceed 501 in height, as measured from the lowest
foundation adjacent to the grading to the top of the tower and a
maximum 151 cross attached to the top of the tower, for a maximum
height of 651".
Commissioner Mowlds emphasized that his motion contains no sound -
producing devices, only the tower itself.
Planning Administrator Petru asked if Condition #5 should be
eliminated.
Commissioner Mowlds said yes, if that what is needed to get the
cross tower approved. He asked if the Resolution should be
modified to say that, at some later date, with approval of the
Staff and the Church, bells or electronic music could be added.
Commissioner Alberio asked if resubmittal or another public hearing
would be necessary.
Planning Administrator Petru said that it is Staff's opinion that
the Planning Commission should be specific now and recommended
accepting the Resolution, as written, or modifying it to disallow
sound at this time and require subsequent Conditional Use Permit
Revision.
Commissioner Mowlds asked the cost of a Conditional Use Permit
Revision.
Planning Administrator Petru said the cost was $600 and that the
hearing would require pubic notice.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 25
Director Bernard suggested that the Commission look at two or three
different sound measurements levels on the table provided and
choose an acceptable decibel level. For example, 40 decibels is a
bird call and 50 decibels is the hum of a large transformer.
Commissioner Mowlds proposed that a maximum 50 decibel level should
be selected.
Commissioner Hayes mentioned that the 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM time
restriction needed to be addressed because it appeared to be an
issue.
Commissioner Mowlds suggested 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM because 8:00 AM is
very early and the 6:00 PM Sunday service could be included.
Monsignor Gill indicated that those hours would be acceptable.
Planning Administrator Petru suggested modifying Condition #5 and
remove reference to bell tower. Begin with second sentence which
reads "a recorded tape of bells can be used for Sundays and special
religious holidays as approved by the Director".
Commissioner Hayes said that bells themselves could be allowed if
they can be kept to 50 decibels
Planning Administrator Petru asked if these bells would be on the
tower or in another location.
Commissioner Mowlds replied that they should not be on the tower.
Planning Administrator Petru further modified Condition #5 stating
"bells, not located on the tower, or a recorded tape of bells to
used on Sundays or special religious holidays between 9:00 AM and
6:00 PM and that the sound level by either shall not exceed 50
decibels as measured from the adjacent residential property line".
Commissioner Mowlds accepted the amended motion and Commissioner
Hayes seconded it.
Planning Administrator Petru 'clarified that no change was being
made to the condition regarding illumination of the tower.
Approved (3-1), with Chairman Katherman excusing himself and
Commissioner Lorenzen dissenting.
commissioner Alberio stated that the Resolution would be signed
that evening with 15 days to appeal to the City Council, commencing
the following day.
Chairman Katherman returned to the dais.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 26
NEW BUSINESS
VIIA. GRADING PERMIT NO. 1691 - REVISION "A"; Mr. Kenneth
Burrell, 11 Marguerite Drive. (FF)
Reading of the Staff Report was waived.
Lorna Burrell, 1 Park Place, Rancho Palos Verdes. (applicant) Mrs.
Burrell stated that there has been confusion about this project
because this property has been incorrectly labeled as a dump site,
and it is not. The Burrell Group has paid for three permits to
accumulate dirt on the property in order to be able to present a
grading plan. Mrs. Burrell distributed a map to Commission and the
opposition in the audience showing the subject 5.4 acres at Lunada
Pointe and pointed out that Lot 1 is part of Tract 40640. She
continued that this lot was restricted to a maximum ridge height of
4' and last year the City Council amended it to 12.' Planning
Administrator Petru, at that time, brought up the fact that at 12'
the future residence built on Lot 1 would cause a view impairment
from the lot upslope (11 Marguerite Drive) , which is also still
vacant. Mrs. Burrell clarified that, according to the grading
plan, all this dirt spread and compacted over the two acres (87,121
sq. ft.) makes the land only 5' higher and only affects these two
acres, not Lot 1 or the other bluff top lot. The dirt is now on
those two bluff lots and they wanted to move it to the appropriate
two -acre section but the City would not allow it.
She also mentioned that the grading plan provides (distributed
pictures) a pipe to remove water from an existing drain under Palos
Verdes Drive West, so that the runoff water will not continue to
erode this ditch, which corrects a problem created by the County.
Mrs. Burrell described their years of development experience on the
peninsula and the fact that they are easy to contact. However,
when the dirt was placed on land, no one informed them, but just
complained to the City. She indicated they would have prosecuted
if they had been provided with the license plate numbers of the
trucks doing the illegal dumping. She added that they have now
chained the driveway to prevent access.
Commissioner Mowlds asked how many loads of dirt were delivered and
Mrs. Burrell said she did not know.
Commissioner Mowlds questioned why the two families of Burrells who
live on this street did not notice the illegal dumping.
Mrs. Burrell said that they knew about it, but complaints went to
City Hall and no Burrells were called directly.
Commissioner Mowlds asked why Burrells should be called and Mrs.
Burrell said because they had control of the land.
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JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 27
Mrs. Burrell stated that 950 cu. yds. of the grading was legal;
that they had approved permits.
Planning Administrator Petru explained that only 500 cu. yds. of
stockpiling was actually approved; the application before the
Commission that evening requested an additional 950 cu. yds. to be
placed on the property.
Director Bernard explained that the reason there is a grading
permit before the Planning Commission is because of the complaints
received by Code Enforcement. The Burrells had been given these
options: (1) Bring their property into compliance with the permit
they had at the time, which was not to exceed 500 cu. yds. (the
dirt be removed by June of this year, as it was not intended to be
a permanent deposit) or (2) File a grading permit, which is the
option they chose.
Chairman Katherman noted that the last City -approved grading permit
No. 1691 allowing 500 cu. yds. of material to be stockpiled on the
site had a requirement for submittal of a development application
within one year. Planning Administrator Petru added that removal
of the dirt was also an option.
Chairman Katherman asked if the grading permit constitutes a
development application and Planning Administrator Petru replied
that it did not; however, it does constitute a permanent increase
in the pad elevation of that two -acre lot.
Planning Administrator Petru commented that it was not known if the
Burrell's were prepared to submit development plans for a home.
Mrs. Burrell responded that they were not.
Ken Burrell, 1 Park Place, Rancho Palos Verdes. (applicant) Mr.
Burrell stated that there had been a misunderstanding with the
Staff that the Burrell's were continuing to accumulate dirt after
the City had told them to stop. Mr. Burrell added that the
property had become an attractive nuisance, and anyone in the
neighborhood who saw it assumed they could leave dirt there too.
He advised the Commission that a "no dumping" sign had been posted,
which was not effective and eventually the driveway was chained to
prevent entry.
Gene Cavecche, 3037 Palos Verdes Drive, West, Palos Verdes Estates.
Mr. Cavecche submitted letter to the Commission and noted another
point not included in his letter. He stated that he has been in
the construction business for 20 years and has learned that honesty
is the way to achieve results and that, if deception is allowed to
seep in, control is lost. He stressed that this is a law-abiding
community and everyone must comply, with no exceptions. Mr.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 28
Cavecche added that an enforcer is needed and this role has been
filled by the City Staff.
Dr. W. W. Sullivan, 2976 Via Alvarado, Palos Verdes Estates. Dr.
Sullivan reported that, for over two years, the residents in the
area had looked at two big blue dumpsters on the subject property
which have now been replaced by raw dirt. He emphasized that this
is a dump site and has been for about four to five years. Included
in the material left on the property is broken up asphalt and rock,
neither of which is appropriate for fill, the purpose for which
Mrs. Burrell says the dirt will be used. He expressed his opinion
that the Burrell's have consistently ignored the laws regarding
this project and found it hard to believe that this dirt was placed
on the property without their permission.
At this point Dr. Sullivan read a letter from another resident in
the area, Marge Hastings: "Dear Commissioners, I would like to
thank the Rancho Palos Verdes Planning Staff for delivering
material pertaining to 11 Marguerite, Rancho Palos Verdes, to be
discussed tonight at your meeting. Unfortunately, I am unable to
attend the meeting because I had two other board meetings on the
schedule for tonight. I would like to take this opportunity to say
that I hope you will follow Staff's recommendation to deny dumping
on said property and require the Burrell's to remove what has
already been dumped. The Burrell Group seems intent on doing
exactly what it wants and seems to have no respect for the
environment or the impact the dumping has on the general area.
During the holidays, I had a fairly large party with people from
all over the Peninsula. I don't know how many times I had to try
to explain what was going on in the field next to me and how many
times people wondered about how it was looking like the old
landfill on Crenshaw Boulevard, not a nice comparison. A positive
reaction to your Staff's recommendation would be appreciated.
Yours very truly, Marge Hastings"
Marlene 'Doley, 3041 Palos Verdes Drive, West., Palos Verdes
Estates. Ms. Doley reiterated that this material has been dumped
illegally and requested denial of the grading permit and removal of
the dirt.
Commissioner Hayes stated that it is inconceivable that anyone
would use asphalt and rock for fill and all the material should be
removed.
Mr. Burrell commented that he agreed.
Commissioner Mowlds noted that it is Staff's opinion that the
applicant's request does not satisfy the criteria set forth in
Section 17.50.070 of the City's Development Code. The grading is
excessive beyond that necessary for the primary use of the lot
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 29
since the lot is designated for development with a single family
residence.
Chairman Katherman asked Assistant Planner de Freitas if the change
in the height allowed for the Lunada Pointe Lot #1 necessitates the
need to have a higher pad on this particular lot in question, as
Mrs. Burrell stated.
Planning Administrator Petru responded, on Mr. de Freitas' behalf,
stating that she and Assistant Planner de Freitas had visited the
site when Lot #1 was before the City Council to raise the maximum
allowable ridge height. One of Staff's concerns was the view
impairment from the subject property by increasing the building
height of the lot in front. They determined, by standing at a
midpoint of that two -acre parcel, that the 121 ridge height would
not significantly impair the ocean view from the subject property.
Commissioner Hayes asked if there was something the Commission
needed to decide tonight, other than just removing the stockpiled
material from the property.
Planning Administrator Petru pointed out that discussion of the
proposed plan might be relevant from the Burrell's point of view
because they claim they need to raise the grade in order to make
that two -acre parcel a view lot again, or at least improve its view
over the two lots that are in front of it.
Chairman Katherman expressed his concern that, even though the
asphalt and the rock must be removed, if the dirt itself is
removed, they will probably need to bring it back in a couple of
years to increase the elevation to create a pad for a building on
the site.
Mr. Burrell approached the podium and asked to make a comment. He
said that he believed when they made their application for the
accumulating of dirt, they were providing a service. Residents
down the street on Marguerite were digging a pool and were going to
haul off dirt over city streets to Chandler Dump. Instead, they
arranged to place the dirt on the subject property and incorporate
it into the grading of the lot. Another family was building a new
home and this dirt was accepted also. Mr. Burrell explained that,
at that time, they applied to increase the grading permit and
thought it was a win-win situation - no trucks would go across the
city streets and the residents did not have to pay to dump the
dirt. In addition, the Burrell Group would accumulate the dirt
needed for their own property.
Chairman Katherman speculated that the situation got out of control
and what started out as a good plan, began to cause problems for
the neighbors living near the site.
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JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 30
Commissioner Alberio made a motion that the Commission approve the
Staff recommendation to deny this request, and it was seconded by
Commissioner Hayes.
Chairman Katherman questioned whether the lot should be restored to
original grade, as surveyed, before the stockpiling began. He
noted that the Burrell's do have a permit for 500 cu. yds, and he
wondered if it serves any purpose to haul out this dirt only to
bring it back again.
Commissioner Alberio responded that the fill material must be
compacted 90% in 12" layers and the asphalt and rocks cannot be
used. He expressed concerns that there may be contamination of the
soil. If this was select fill, it would be different, but this may
not be the case.
Chairman Katherman replied that he was not suggesting that the
entire amount of dirt remain, but only the 500 cu. yds. originally
approved by Staff.
Mrs. Burrell approached the podium and said that the rocks and
asphalt could never be compacted and the material would be removed.
However, the large number of trucks necessary to remove the soil
would be a burden on the neighborhood. She explained that they had
planned to smooth out the dirt so it did not look like a dump, but
were told by Staff that it had to remain in piles until the grading
plan was approved.
Chairman Katherman called for a vote on the motion and it was
unanimously agreed accept Staff's recommend to deny the grading
permit. He note that the minute order would be effective that
evening and there would be an appeal period of 15 days.
Director Bernard asked for direction from the Commission as to time
allowed for removal of the material and, after a brief discussion,
the Commission agreed upon 60 days.
REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. STAFF
1. Pre -Agenda for the January 25, 1994, meeting.
2. Director Bernard expressed Staff's gratitude and
appreciation of a difficult job well done by the
Planning Commission the past two years; noting they
had set a standard of achievement for future
Commissions.
B. COMMISSION
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
JANUARY 11, 1994
PAGE 31
n
Chairman Katherman, on behalf of the Commission, thanked
Staff for their excellent performance during his tenure;
and, expressed his appreciation of his fellow
Commissioners.
COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
Ms. Lois Larue spoke about her Naturalization to become
an American citizen and the American Civil Liberties
Union.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion to adjourn at 12:32 AM to January 25, 1994, at
7:30 P.M.
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JANUARY 11, 1994
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