PC MINS 19930126MINUTES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
The meeting was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Chairman Katherman at
Hesse Park Community Center, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho Palos
Verdes, CA. Following the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, roll call
was answered as follows:
PRESENT: Commissioners Alberio, Clark, Hayes, Lorenzen and
Mowlds, Vice Chairman Byrd and Chairman Katherman.
Also present were Director of Environmental Services Dudley Onderdonk,
Planning Administrator Carolynn Petru, Senior'Planner Joel Rojas,
Associate Planner Terry Silverman, Assistant Planner Fabio de Freitas
and Assistant Planner Kim Klopenstein.
REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
The agenda was reordered to move Reports and Communications to the end
of the agenda and to take the New Business item before Continued
Business.
CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Minutes of January 12, 1993. commissioner Hayes moved, seconded
by commissioner Lorenzen, to approve the minutes of January 12, 1993.
Motion carried 7-0.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. VARIANCE NO. 351; Mr. and Mrs. Anthony Dean, 28601 Mt. Rose.
Without objection, the commission agreed to waive the reading of the
staff report.
Commissioner Alberio moved, seconded by Commissioner Lorenzen, to
approve Variance No. 351; with conditions as per P. C. Resolution No.
93-3. Motion carried 7-0.
Anthony Dean, applicant, 28601 Mt. Rose, testified that he understood
and agreed to the conditions of approval. Commissioner Hayes asked
Mr. Dean if he would provide "before and after" pictures of his
addition for a guidebook being prepared by the former Planning
Commission subcommittee on the Development Code. She thought this
project would be a good example of a tasteful addition.
NEW BUSINESS
A. GRADING PERMIT NO. 1151 - REVISION I'D", 7440 Alida Place.
Without objection, the Commission agreed to waive the reading of the
staff report.
Roger Dupont, (applicant's architect), 1846 9th Street, Manhattan
Beach, testified that he and the applicant understood and agreed to
the conditions of approval.
Vice Chairman Byrd moved, seconded by Commissioner Clark, to approve
Grading Permit No. 1151 - Revision I'D" with conditions of approval.
Motion carried 7-0.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
A. VARIANCE NO. 347; Nasser Rastegar-Panah, 5561 Graylog.
Associate Planner Silverman presented the staff report for the request
of an after -the -fact approval of an addition to an existing deck which
extends approximately 7 feet over an extreme slope. Ms. Silverman
clarified Staff's previous report and stated that at the Planning
Commission meeting in November, conceptual approval of 13 sq. ft. of
extension was granted by the Commission. At the following meeting,
Staff recommended approval of 20.62 sq. ft. of deck due to the
location of the support members of the deck. Although it was not
discussed at the hearing, Staff felt that the intent of the
Commission's approval was met with the 20.62 sq. ft. extension. Staff
had since received photographs from a previous owner of the property
which Staff used to estimate the length of the deck as originally
constructed. It appears from the photographs that the deck was
extended at some time from 141 to 161. There are no permits on file
which document this extension. The current owner contends that the
deck measured 161 when he purchased the property and at the time of
approval for the replacement of the deck which was granted by the
Director, he was unaware that any previous extensions had been made.
Staff feels that the limited level outdoor area of the property
warrants inclusion of this portion of the deck as part of the variance
and a revised Resolution has been provided to the Commission which
would approve the two foot extension plus the 20.62 sq. ft. area.
Commissioner Alberio said that when the owner buys a property, he is
charged with responsibility for knowledge of permits. Associate
Planner Silverman advised that Staff thought the deck was constructed
under the jurisdiction of the County which at that time did not
require permits for decks. Commission Alberio stated that the title
insurance recording documents show the dimensions of the house and
anything that goes with the house, including the deck. If the records
did not show the deck, he would know it was done without a permit.
Commissioner Hayes asked what Staff would have approved as a
replacement deck had the information been available that the original
deck was 141 deep and 241 wide. Associate Planner Silverman replied
that only approval of the 141x 241 deck plus any portion of an
expanded deck that did not extend over an extreme slope would have
been granted. Ms. Silverman explained that extreme slope permits are
appropriate for decks that extend a minimum of 61 feet over an extreme
slope and anything more than six feet is subject to a variance.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 2
0— 0
Vice Chairman Byrd said that the Planning Commission should have been
discussing anything above and beyond the 14' x 24' rather than the
variance which was presented. Ms. Silverman replied that Staff
recommended that the portion of the deck extended without permits be
included as part of the variance. She advised that the original
request was for 91 square feet of deck over an extreme slope which had
not been part of the site plan review approval. The Commission
approved 13 sq. ft. of that 91 sq. ft. and at the following meeting,
Staff recommended that approximately 20 sq. ft. be approved because
the position of the support members and the configuration of the deck
would present a hardship to reduce the deck to the 13 sq. ft. Staff
had recommended that the 20.62 sq. ft. be approved along with the two
foot extension.
Commissioner Hayes and Vice Chairman Byrd said that the Commission had
given their approval without full knowledge of the size of the
original deck and because they were led to believe the original deck
was 16' in depth and approximately 44' wide and not 14' x 241; so the
assumptions the Commission made that decision on were false. Ms.
Silverman stated that was understood and notwithstanding the fact that
permits were not obtained for the extension, Staff felt that the
amount of level useable area on the property was limited and,
therefore, the findings for granting the variance to allow for the two
foot extension could be made.
Vice Chairman Byrd asked if the deck was up to code and if it had
passed inspection. Ms. Silverman responded that the deck had not been
finaled and that there had been no inspections since the previous
Planning Commission meeting. Chairman Katherman confirmed with Staff
that as a matter of right the applicant is allowed the 14' x 24' deck
and any additions that do not extend over the extreme slope; and that
the Resolution included the 14' x 24' and the two foot extension to
that plus the 20.62 sq. ft. which the Commission had voted on at the
last meeting.
The Commissioners determined that the public hearing had been closed
on this project but that the Resolution had been continued to this
meeting. However, since new issues and information had been
introduced, it was appropriate to request additional facts from Staff
or from members of the audience; but they could not reopen the public
hearing without renoticing the item.
Commissioner Clark asked Mr. Howard Weinhoff, (applicant's neighbor),
26108 Basswood Avenue, if he was supportive of this project and his
reason for or against. Mr. Weinhoff responded that he was against the
project and referred to his original letter to the Commission which
requested two things: One, determine the size of the original deck
and what the appropriate size of the replacement deck should be. The
second was disapprove the variance because it was outside the
boundaries of the original deck According to Mr. Adams, the
original owner, his deck was 14' x 24' and that is the appropriate
size of a replacement deck. Mr. Weinhoff said he objected to a deck
larger than the original because it was an invasion of his privacy
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 3
since with the larger deck the applicant could look into his yard and
living area. This was not a problem with the deck in its original
size.
Vice Chairman Byrd asked Mrs. Carolyn Dirks -Dougherty, (applicant's
neighbor), 5555 Graylog, about her objections to the deck which she
had expressed at the last two hearings. Ms. Dougherty stated she
realized after seeing Mr. Adams' pictures of the property, that she
was mistaken in her previous testimony that one steps down to the deck
and you could never see Mr. Adams head from her property. As she
determined from the photographs, she could not see Mr. Adams head
because of the heavy vegetation on both his side and her side of the
fence and that actually, you walk out of the house and up two steps to
his deck so the deck height is correct. Mrs. Dougherty thought that
if Mr. Panah would put in vegetation between six and seven feet high
and she would do the same thing on their side, the problem would be
solved from her standpoint. Commissioner Alberio asked if that would
impair her view. She replied that a wall, fence, hedge or lattice
would impair her view but vegetation would not since it can be
trimmed.
Commissioner Lorenzen said that when he talked to Mrs. Dougherty's
husband, he was concerned with the length of the deck. Mrs. Dougherty
responded that their concern was that they believe in honesty and in
telling the Commission the truth, which was why she contacted Mr.
Adams who said it was 12' feet. She said maybe it was 141, she
couldn't answer that, but she knows that it was not 161. She could
not see the deck with the vegetation in, but without the vegetation
the applicant can look over the deck and see into their bedroom and,
therefore, she is asking for privacy.
In response to Vice Chairman Byrd's question, the applicant, Nat
Panah, 5561 Graylog Street, stated that the width of the room which
opened onto the deck was approximately 221. Vice Chairman Byrd asked
Mr. Panah how he had come up with 24' since Mr. Adams' letter
specifically said that his deck only extended the width of that room.
Mr. Panah responded that Mr. Adams was incorrect and that Associate
Planner Silverman's method of measurement was incorrect mathematically
and scientifically. Mr. Panah presented diagrams of the deck which he
contended proved the deck as shown on the photographs had to be longer
than 14' in order to be perpendicular to the building. Mr. Panah said
he did not take any measurements but had taken Mr. Adams' photograph
and the measurements taken by Associate Planner Silverman and came to
the conclusion that those two together show the depth of the deck to
be over 141. Vice Chairman Byrd asked if he had taken any pictures in
his back yard and Mr. Panah said he had not. Vice Chairman Byrd
concluded then that the only evidence the Commission had was the
testimony of Mr. Adams, the testimony of Mr. Panah's two neighbors and
Mr. Panah's testimony. Commissioner Alberio stated that he believed
the photographs were distorted and that the Commissioners had no idea
what condition the deck was in when the photographs were taken nor any
idea of the distance the photographs were taken from. Therefore, the
Planning Commission could not scientifically reach the same
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 4
E
•
conclusions as Mr. Panah. Mr. Panah referred to a photograph of a
beam taken by former Planning Assistant Paul Espe. Commissioner
Mowlds advised Mr. Panah that the Planning commission had contacted
Mr. Espe who had stated that he never said the beam he measured was
perpendicular to Mr. Panah's house; and that all he did was measure a
beam and he would not testify that the beam he measured was the
supporting girder from Mr. Panahfs deck.
commissioner Hayes moved, seconded by Commissioner Lorenzen, that the
Commission deny the variance.
Commissioner Clark confirmed with Commissioner Hayes that the purpose
of her motion was that anything beyond what the applicant was entitled
to as a matter of right be handled as a separate project and separated
from what the Planning Commission was considering. Commissioner Clark
advised that the Planning Commission had approved after -the -fact
applications in the past. commissioner Hayes said her approval
depended on what the project was, how it was designed, the curb
appeal, how it affected the neighbors, and other factors. She said
she had voted in the past for after -the -fact approvals but also
remembered an application where it would have been very costly to
remove and she said "you put it in, it wasn't approved, take it out."
Commissioner Clark thought alternatives should be discussed.
Commissioner Lorenzen said that he had no problem with after -the -fact
approval if they were replacing an existing deck, but in fact it is a
much larger deck.
Commissioner Alberio stated that the applicant was a civil engineer
who also had some construction experience and that he is responsible
for building the deck without permits and without Planning Commission
approval.
Chairman Katherman advised that he looked at after -the -fact approvals
as if the project had not been built and he tries to determine what is
reasonable both in terms of the equities of the applicant and the
burdens that are placed on the neighbors. He agreed with Associate
Planner Silverman and her recommendations. Chairman Katherman pointed
out that one neighbor, Mrs. Dougherty, thought that with appropriate
screening the deck at 16 feet would not impact her privacy. Also, the
neighbor to the west indicated he had a privacy problem, but Staff has
put conditions in which would mitigate that and, moreover, that
property owner has a deck which is equal to or greater in its
extension over an extreme slope as that proposed by Mr. Panah.
Commissioner Mowlds thought that the only variance the commission was
considering was for a deck over an extreme slope, and that one of the
conditions the commission requires for approval is that adjacent
neighbors do not object. If adjacent neighbors had no objections, the
Commission would approve the variance. Therefore, if he judged this
project with the exact same criteria that he had judged every other
deck over an extreme slope, he would not approve it since it extends
out so far it is an annoyance to the adjacent neighbors.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 5
Chairman Katherman clarified that the motion was to deny the variance
and the result of the denial would be to require the applicant to
reduce the depth of the deck from 16' to 14' and would require removal
of all portions of the deck that extend over an extreme slope except
the 141x 24' deck which was originally constructed.
The motion to deny the variance carried on the following roll call
vote:
AYES: ALBERIO, LORENZEN, HAYES, BYRD AND MOWLDS
NOES: KATHERMAN AND CLARK
Commissioner Clark and Chairman Katherman stated for the record that
they had voted no because they thought there were mitigating
conditions that would have dealt with the privacy issue and now there
are none and they felt that the Commission was not being consistent in
dealing with after -the -fact applications.
Chairman Katherman called for a new resolution at the next meeting and
advised the applicant that there is a 15 -day appeal period after the
resolution is approved.
REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
'0V:13a
1. Status of Development Code Revisions: Director Onderdonk
discussed a memo from Planning Administrator Petru which outlined the
status of the work that has been done in the past on the Development
Code, and advised that he, Ms. Petru and Senior Planner Rojas will be
working on the amendments and the rewriting of the Code that needs to
be done. He said that considerable work has already been done on
proposed changes which Staff would like to review with the Planning
Commission and then focus on those other issues that are of special
importance.
Vice Chairman Byrd suggested, and Commissioners Hayes and Mowlds
agreed, that the Code include a requirement for the Planning
Commission to review all second story additions. Chairman Katherman
requested that there be an alternative included of giving guidelines
to applicants who want to add second stories and if they follow the
guidelines they would have no problem getting Staff approval; but if
they don't follow the guidelines, they have to come before the
Planning Commission. Vice Chairman Byrd agreed with providing
guidelines but thought the application should still come before the
Planning Commission.
Vice Chairman Byrd requested that it be explicitly defined as to when
a geology report is required in order to determine unequivocally that
a geology report is needed and to provide guidelines for Staff.
Chairman Katherman said he was not sure an amendment to the grading
code section is under the purview of the Planning Commission.
Planning Administrator Petru advised that there is nothing about
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 6
geology reports in the Development Code but she thought it is part of
the Building Code. Vice Chairman Byrd also expressed concern that it
was becoming expensive to do modifications to a property. He thought
that perhaps by trying to be extra safe, they may be over burdening
the homeowner financially.
Commissioner Alberio inquired about updating the satellite section and
Vice Chairman Byrd suggested that since the technology was changing
rapidly, Staff should contact Hughes Aircraft and determine what their
new satellites will be using in the way of antennas.
The Commissioners requested that Staff make their technical and
structural corrections including definitions, cross-referencing and
indexing, and then meet with the Planning commission subcommittee at
their earliest convenience to review the policy issues with respect to
design review. Staff would then prepare a draft document for the
Planning Commission's review and comments and then take that
information and prepare a final draft for the Commission and then
schedule a public hearing.
Director Onderdonk suggested that Staff break the Development code
revisions into manageable pieces that are logical and make incremental
changes rather than bringing it back as a whole. He expressed concern
that if everything was done at once, it could be overwhelming and take
a long time to get through the change process. chairman Katherman
responded that so many sections are tied to other sections that it
would be difficult to do in increments, but if Staff could divide it
into a logical format, the Commission had no objection.
2. Lunada Pointe Gate Closure Resolution: The Commission accepted
the information presented by Staff, and Director Onderdonk advised
that Staff would try to be more clear in communications with City
Council as to what additions are made by City Staff or the City
Attorney and what is the recommendation from the Planning commission.
3. Coastal Commission Update: Director Onderdonk stated that coastal
Commission updates were included in his weekly report and the
Commission requested that they all receive copies. Director Onderdonk
noted that the hearing on Ocean Trails was tentatively scheduled for
February in San Diego.
4. Monterey Conference: Director Onderdonk advised that the City
will pay registration, travel, hotel and food expenses for four
people. Commissioners Hayes and Alberio and Vice chairman Byrd will
attend.
5. Summons: Director Onderdonk stated that the City had received a
summons naming the members of the Planning Commission and distributed
the first page of same to the Commissioners. He advised that the City
Attorney will file the necessary responses within the required time
frame and there is nothing more that the Commission needs to do. He
will keep them advised of future developments.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 7
COMMISSION
1. Portuguese Canyon: Vice Chairman Byrd asked if it was possible to
drain Portuguese Canyon to stop the movement of P. V. Drive South.
Director Onderdonk informed the Commission that an engineering study
is underway and he would bring back a report at the next meeting.
2. Housing Element: Chairman Katherman requested that Staff bring
back a report at the next meeting of their response to the State's
review of the City's Housing Element.
QUESTIONS FROM AUDIENCE
John P. Sharkey, Avenida de Calma, discussed the appellants' point of
view of the Coastal commission hearings and the City's image with the
Coastal commission.
Chairman Katherman stated that Mr. Sharkey, as well as the Coastal
Commission, should understand that the City of Rancho Palos Verdes did
not intend to prohibit or inhibit access to the coastline. vice
Chairman Byrd commented that the fiscal issue was not being addressed
and asked who pays for all this.
ADJOURNMENT
On motion of Commissioner Mowlds, the meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.
to Tuesday, February 9, 1993, at 7:30 p.m. at Hesse park.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
JANUARY 26, 1993
PAGE 8