PC MINS 19921110i
MINUTES
PLANNING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 10, 1992
The meeting was called to order at 7:45 p.m. by Chairman Katherman
at Hesse Park Community Center, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard, Rancho
Palos Verdes, CA.
PRESENT: Commissioners Alberio, Clark, Hayes, Lorenzen and
Chairman Katherman.
ABSENT: Commissioner Mowlds (excused) and Vice Chairman Byrd
(ill).
Also present were Director of Environmental Services Dudley
Onderdonk, Planning Administrator Carolynn Petru, Senior Planner
Joel Rojas, Assistant Planner Donna Jerex and Assistant Planner
Paul Espe. The Pledge of Allegiance followed.
REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
Director Onderdonk discussed the reorganization of the
Environmental Services Department.
Director Onderdonk updated the Commission on the NCCP Program
dealing with the preservation of the habitat of potentially
endangered species. He stated that two City volunteers are
working with the California Native Plant Society on a mapping and
research program to identify native species on City owned land.
Director Onderdonk advised that the Planning Commission did not
have the authority to waive the resubmittal fees when they denied
Tentative Parcel Map No. 23548. Therefore, the City Council would
be considering the fee waiver issue at their next meeting.
CONSENT CALENDAR
MOTION: Commissioner Alberio moved, seconded by Commissioner
Lorenzen, to approve the minutes of October 27, 1992 with minor
corrections. Motion passed 5-0.
MOTION: Commissioner Haves moved, seconded by Commissioner Clark,
to approve P. C. Resolution 92-70, denying Conditional Use Permit
No. 166, et. al. at 28798 Western Avenue. Motion passed 5-0.
A. VARIANCE NO. 345• Hao-sheng Yu, 6626 Channelview Court.
Planning commission meeting
November 10, 1992
NOTION: Commissioner Clark moved, seconded by Commissioner
Alberio, to accept the applicant's withdrawal of Variance No 345.
Motion passed 5-0.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
A. VARIANCE NO. 323, HEIGHT VARIATION 743 - APPEAL, GRADING
PERMIT NO. 1617• Helen and David Engel, 6 Headland Drive.
MOTION: Commissioner Alberio moved,
Lorenzen, to continue Variance No.
Appeal, Grading Permit No. 1617 to
Planning Commission and applicant's
frame location. Motion passed 5-0.
PUBLIC HEARING (Continued)
seconded by Commissioner
323, Height Variation 743 -
November 24, 1992 to allow the
neighbor time to review the
B. VARIANCE NO. 339, GRADING PERMIT NO. 1647• Mr. and Mrs. James
Hsu, 7004 Clovercliff.
Paul Espe presented the staff report on this request to allow the
construction of 936 square feet of additional first and second
story living space to be located on a slope in excess of 35%. He
stated that the findings provided in the Development Code can be
made for this variance and recommended approval with conditions.
MOTION: commissioner Hayes moved,,seconded by Commissioner
Lorenzen, to approve Variance No. 339 and Grading Permit No. 1647,
subject to Conditions of Approval on Exhibit "A". Motion passed
5-0.
James Hsu (applicant), 70004 Clovercliff Drive, testified that he
had read the staff report and the recommended Conditions of
Approval and that he had no questions or objections.
C. GRADING APPLICATION NO. 1390, FSEIR ADDENDUM TENTATIVE TRACT
MAP NO. 37885; (Forrestal).
Senior Planner Rojas presented the staff report and advised that
the City Council had requested that the Planning Commission
consider modifications to the previously denied Grading
Application No. 1390, and receive oral comments from the public on
the re -circulated Addendum to the Final Supplemental EIR.
Commissioners Clark, Alberio, Lorenzen and Hayes requested that
the hearing on this project be postponed for the following
reasons: two commissioners were absent; Chairman Katherman was
the only Commissioner who been on the Planning commission when
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
this project was heard in the past and the Planning Commission
needed more time to prepare because of the project's complexity
and magnitude; to provide adequate time and notice for the public
to be aware of the opportunity to testify; and because the project
is in litigation.
Staff advised that those who had spoken at previous hearings or
submitted comments in writing were notified of this hearing and,
also, a notice was published in the Peninsula News.
Chairman Katherman stated for the record that he had reviewed the
case and was prepared to vote on it. He also said that the
Planning Commission had received a confidential memo from the City
Attorney giving legal advice on the project. He suggested the
Commission hear the testimony and then continue the project to a
date certain since people were there to speak and should have the
option to be heard. Also, the Commisssion would have a better
understanding of the project if the applicant and his experts gave
an overview. The Commissioners who were not present would have
the opportunity to review the tape of the meeting.
Senior Planner Rojas advised that all parties have agreed to
recirculate the addendum EIR to the agencies that have commented
on it before, as well as to interested parties. Mr. Rojas also
advised that the 30 -day review period to hear public comment on
the addendum would end November 23, 1992 and the next meeting
would be after the comment period. Therefore, he suggested that
testimony be taken on the addendum EIR and at the next meeting of
November 24, and modifications can be discussed by the Commission
and the public. However, by that time the comment period will
have closed and staff will be working on the responses to the
comments for the City Council. Therefore, if the project were
continued to November 24, the final recommendation to City Council
would have to be made then that night.
Senior Planner Rojas stated that staff believes the plan addresses
most of the major concerns previously identified by the City
Council, particularly the concerns involving fill in the quarry
bowl and off-site material exportation. However, under the
modified plan, the reviewing geologists recommended that the
quarry bowl be restricted from public access due to remaining
rockfall potential and the Council had previously expressed that,
if possible, the quarry bowl should be accessible to the public.
Also, the Council's concerns involving the grading for the tract
development, as expressed by the Seaview Homeowners Association,
are not affected by the revised grading plan. The FSEIR Addendum
documents how the Seaview HOA comments have been responded to by
the recommendations and conclusions of the current grading plan.
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Chairman Katherman asked how public access could be denied not
only at the bottom of the quarry bowl but also at the top of the
quarry bowl within a 50 foot area. Senior Planner Rojas said that
the trail and fence along the top are very close to the edge of
the quarry bowl and the consulting geologists have stated that it
is a hazard standing underneath the quarry bowl side, and the top
edge also presents a hazard. Therefore, staff recommended access
be closed inside the bowl and that there be fencing or some other
means to limit access to the top edge of the bowl.
Commissioner Alberio stated that nothing was mentioned about
stopping the erosion on the quarry slope by grading or planting.
Also, the plan did not address the problem of water seeping out
and going into Klondike Canyon. Senior Planner Rojas responded
that the City Council acknowledged that the steeper slopes create
a higher potential for erosion and a higher maintenance need. Mr.
Rojas explained that are two problems with quarry bowl drainage:
1) a dam was built to prevent water going into the bowl and about
100 feet up the quarry wall water is collecting from the canyon
behind this earthen dam which is a source of ponding and
percolation; and 2) at the very base of bowl itself is a local
drainage problem. The intent with adding 10,000 cubic yards of
fill to the bowl is to have a very gradual slope so that whatever
water gets in the bowl there flows out.
Commissioner Hayes asked about the fossils that students have been
studying in that area and Senior Planner Rojas responded that the
geologists' finding was that there were not significant fossils in
the area and, therefore, no significant impact.
Chairman Katherman asked why the applicant couldn't create a rock
catchment area and leave the quarry slope alone. Mr. Rojas
responded that the City geologist was concerned about the rockfall
potential in the event of an earthquake and how to design a
catchment to contain falling rocks. Therefore, they went to
stepped slopes. Chairman Katherman and Commissioner Clark asked
why not just lop off the top and leave the rest alone.
Bob Trapp, J. M. Peters Co. (Applicant)„ Inc., stated that the
city Council had expressed three issues of concern: 1) How to
minimize the grading on the quarry slope and still provide
adequate safety, 2) to preserve as much open space in the quarry
bowl as possible, and 3) to balance the site so there is no
trucking of excess material off the site. He said their plan had
solved these problems as follows:
1. Minimize grading - there was originally 542,000 cubic yards
of cut which has been reduced to 165,000 cubic yards.
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
2. Preserve Open Space - the
yards of fill going into
plan now has only 10,000
bowl.
:7
original plan had 600,000 cubic
the quarry bowl area and the revised
cubic yards going into the quarry
3. Eliminate offsite trucking - the revised plan balances cuts
and fills on site and there is no trucking going off the
site.
He felt that the additional issues of drainage, biology, noise and
dust had been addressed and mitigation had been proposed which was
satisfactory to the independent geologist and soils engineer hired
by the City and to the satisfaction of the EIR consultant hired by
the City. Mr. Trapp advised the Commission that there is a
condition requiring that an archeologist be on site during grading
in case any significant fossils are uncovered.
Commissioner Alberio was concerned about the amount of material to
be placed on the eastern portion of the slopes for the sake of
balancing the cut and fill and said that it would have to be
compacted to at least 95% for stability. He thought that all the
material placed by mechanical methods would slide down during an
earthquake unless 100% adhesion to natural ground could be
accomplished and he suggested that it be left as is. Mr. Trapp
responded that many of the areas on site are uncertified fill
which do not meet grading requirements, so anything that they do
would be an improvement. Commissioner Alberio also thought that
putting 10,000 cubic yards of fill in the quarry bowl would not
solve the drainage problem and that there were other options such
as pumps and drainage pipes. Mr. Trapp responded that the best
way is to provide positive drainage with nothing mechanical that
can break down or become clogged. He said it was an option,
however, to put in a concrete channel which would eliminate any
seepage.
RECESS AND RECONVENE - meeting recessed at 9:05 p.m. and
reconvened at 9:20 p.m.
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, testified against the project
and stated that homes in the Seaview area are cracking on
Dauntless Drive because of serious displacement and that the
homeowners in Seaview are very concerned about what will be done
at the project site. She also said that the project is in
violation of the City's General Plan because the topography will
be changed. Mg. Larue advised that there is a landslide in the
Klondike Canyon area of the project and according to geologists,
landslides grow - they do not shrink. She reminded the Commission
that the City approved Villa Capri which has serious displacement
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problems. Ms. Larue said there was good reason that this project
has been around since 1982 since there are major problems with it.
She stated that Mr. Ehlig did not know where the water would go
and she could not believe that the water would flow over into
Klondike Canyon. She did not think that the geological or drainage
problems had been adequately addressed.
Sunshine, 6 Limetree, stated that the grading application and EIR
did not address the location, grading and environmental impacts of
creating trails 7 and 16 and she wanted to go on record saying
this should not be used as an excuse to not build the trail
because the environmental impacts are too great. Sunshine also
requested that the trail be located so it connects with the City
Hall segment and Seahill segment of the City's conceptual Trails
Plan and that it be parallel to Palos Verdes Drive South and as
far from the road as possible.
Tom Schnerk, 3444 Hightide, testified against the project and
stated that if the present catch basin and the natural rise of the
quarry hillside is maintained, it will be stable and nothing will
break loose. He thought the project was being jeopardized for the
sake of six houses and a cul-de-sac and that those houses should
be eliminated in order to keep the natural catch basin and the
rise of the hill. He suggested the area then be designated open
hazard and left alone. He thought that Perry Ehlig did not know
where the water goes or how much ponding takes place. He asked if
anyone had actually seen ponding, how deep it is and long it takes
to percolate out. He suggested Mr. Ehlig be questioned thoroughly
on these issues. Mr. Schnerk suggested that if the City had to
accept this project to avoid being sued, the compromise should be
the elimination of those six houses since the amount of money the
developers would save on the grading would make up for the loss of
revenue from the six houses.
Elizabeth Kelly, 6611 Vallon Drive, agreed with Ms. Larue's
statements and with Mr. Schnerk's suggestion to eliminate the six
houses. She also commended Commissioner Clark for showing
restraint on the project. Ms. Kelly stated that the City Council
thought the project was bad enough to deny and she was concerned
that the threat of legal action had clouded the issue and that she
would not want to see the project accepted out of fear of legal
action.
Motion: Commission Clark moved, seconded by Commissioner Hayes,
to continue the public hearing on the consideration of
modifications to previously denied Grading Application No. 1390 to
November 21, 1992, 9:00 a.m., to an on-site visit to the project.
The public hearing will then be continued to the November 24, 1992
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
Planning Commission Meeting at Hesse Park, after 9:00 p.m. Motion
passed 5-0.
D. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 92 - REVISION I'D", EIR NO. 37; The
Salvation Army, 30840 Hawthorne Boulevard.
Senior Planner Rojas presented the staff report recommending that
the Commission certify the existing Final Program EIR as prepared,
review and discuss the project issues of concern and conceptually
approve the Education/Conference Center (ECC) with conditions, and
review the Draft Conditions of Approval and provide staff with
direction. He advised the Commission that:
A. Staff had prepared a Resolution making the findings for the
certification of the Final Program EIR accompanied by a Statement
of Overriding Consideration per CEQA requirements.
B. If the Commission certifies the EIR and signs the Resolution,
the Planning Commission will have 90 days to act on the pending
applications which are the Conditional Use Permit, the Variance
and the Grading Application.
C. The design of the ECC building had not changed but the
applicant had designed an earthen berm to screen the building from
Palos Verdes Drive South.
D. The vehicular access road had been redesigned incorporating
the Planning Commission and Traffic Committee recommendations.
E. Staff had amended its recommendation on the trails to include
a condition of approval of1the CUP that the Salvation Army also
maintain the trail.
Thomas Hause, (Architect for the Applicant), 67 East Live Oak
Avenue, Arcadia, stated that they have screened the building by
providing a landscaped berm to block most of the view on Palos
Verdes Drive South and the worst case is that five feet can be
seen at one point. The height of the building is 30 feet from the
floor line to top and will not exceed 45 feet from the very lower
portion of the basement which is below grade. The entrance road
is now located directly across from what used to be the Marineland
entrance. It will be widened with a small island and will require
no retaining walls but will require building a road supported with
a 1 1/2:1 slope.
In response to Commissioner Clark's question, Mr. Hause responded
that approximately 30 feet of the building would "be seen without
the berm and that the five feet which can be seen with the berm as
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
designed now could be blocked by raising the berm or planting
trees.
Commissioner Hayes said she felt strongly that the building was
too high and too massive and it could still be seen from the
street even with the berm, and also from above. She said that
this multi -storied building is not aesthetically appropriate for
Rancho Palos Verdes.
Chairman Katherman asked the height from the lowest point of
finished grade to the top of the roof and the size of footprint.
Mr. Hause responded that the footprint is 66,000 square feet and
that the building is 45 feet at its tallest. Senior Planner Rojas
clarified that if the guest facility was viewed straight on, it is
45 feet high. Commissioner Alberio mentioned that Commissioner
Mowlds had expressed concern about the 45 feet and that is why he
instructed the applicant to put part of the building below ground.
Mr. Hause stated that it was not economicallly or functionally
feasible to break the building into two units. Commissioner Hayes
advised that the Planning Commission had not considered cost in
the past in requesting changes to applicants' plans.
Major Kenneth Gibson, Salvation Army (Applicant). 30840 Hawthorne
Boulevard, confirmed that splitting the ECC into two buildings was
not feasible since that would double the cost, there would be a
problem locating it on site, and if they maintain 25 units in each
building there would still be two buildings totalling the same
mass on the same site. Also, it would be inconvenient for people
to go from building to building. He advised that they will have
over 200 cadets for the next session and they are pressed for
rooms and, therefore, they are considering using this building for
housing for cadets instead of an Education/Conference Center.
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, testified that she was a
neighbor of the Salvation Army and was against the project. Ms.
Larue stated that the building was a monstrosity and that the
Salvation Army was crowding buildings onto the site. She said
that the City is residential and she preferred the idea of several
smaller buildings.' Ms. Larue asked why there was an entrance from
Crestmont and also from Palos Verdes Drive South.
Sunshine, 6 Limetree, stated that she thought more than just a few
of the 200 cadets would enjoy taking a walk or run on a trail.
She discussed the location of the trail and how it should safely
link up with other trails. She requested that the conditions of
approval include a reference to the Conceptual Trails Plan as far
as specific start and stop points and also include the actual
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Planning commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
grade of the trail. Sunshine thought that the width of trail with
the planting and buffer area should be 10 feet and that it was
reasonable to require the Salvation Army to dedicate it and to
maintain it.
Elizabeth Kelly, 6611 Vallon Drive, testified against the project
stating that her main objection was the massive size. She said
the City had been downsizing residential developments for the past
five years and requested that this project be downsized. She
reminded the Commission that HMDI had been downsized from 96 to 79
units. Ms. Kelly also thought that the color of the buildings
should be an earth tone to blend in with the hillside.
MOTION: Commissioner Clark moved, seconded by commissioner
Alberio to close the public hearing. Motion passed 5-0.
Commissioner Hayes requested that Page 7 of the EIR be changed
from 11 ... the Acting Director assured the Commission that staff
would examine any proposed revisions to determine if an addendum
or supplemental EIR would be necessary." to include a condition
that the Planning Commission will see everything that comes
forward.
Commissioner Alberio said that the confidential report from the
City Attorney confirms that if the Planning commission certifies
the EIR, staff has the duty to refer any deviation to the Planning
Commission. Commissioner Clark said that they wanted to assure
that the Commission look at each increment of the project and
assess the input from staff as to whether or not an EIR revision
or addendum was necessary. Chairman Katherman stated that the
Commission is assured of a public hearing for future projects
since they will require a Conditional Use Permit which requires a
public hearing. Planning Administrator Petru added that even
though the Planning commission would be certifying the Program,
EIR, they were only approving the ECC at this time and any other
project that is beyond the ECC will have to be analyzed by staff
as a conditional use permit revision or amendment. Therefore,
staff will have to do an environmental review for each one and
will have to check it against the program EIR and it will have to
come back before Planning Commission in the form of a CUP
revision.
NOTION: commissioner Clark moved, seconded by commissioner
Lorenzen, to certify the Program EIR. Motion passed 4-1, with
Commissioner Hayes dissenting.
Commissioners Hayes and Lorenzen expressed their concerns about
the mass and size of the proposed ECC and how much of the building
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Planning Commission Meeting
November 10, 1992
could be seen from Palos Verdes Drive South, especially in the
area where the tie-in road creates a break in the berm and
Commissioner Lorenzen suggested that the tie-in road be
eliminated. Commissioner Clark said he thought that the developer
had gone a long way to downsize, to look at a subterranean
solution and to reshape the buidling and that it was now a
reasonable building size. He suggested that the berm be built up
another foot and that planting be added so that there is no view
from Palos Verdes Drive South. Mr. Hause advised that they could
raise the berm but could not lower the building height.
The Commissioners requested that the following changes be made to,
Exhibit "A", Draft Conditions of Approval."
1. That the Salvation Army provide a "dedicated easement to the
City", for trail purposes, the trail be a minimum width of 10
feet, and that the applicant construct and maintain the trail
which shall be multi-purpose. The trail should begin on the
western boundary of the Salvation Army parcel and extend
across the southern edge of the parcel and be located
adjacent and parallel to Palos Verdes Drive South, as far
from the road as possible and shall be located so it connects
with the City Hall Segment (A5) and Seahill Segment (A7) of
the City's Conceptual Trails Plan. The'exact location shall
be subject to approval by the Director of Environmental
Services prior to issuance of the grading permit.
2. The roof landscaping shall be subject to review or
modification by Staff.
3. The berm should be raised and continued across so there is
zero visibility of the ECC structure from Palos Verdes Drive
South and the berm shall be subject to inspection by staff to
make sure that the building is not visible.
4. Eliminate the secondary access to the ECC and provide only
one access route via Crestmont and change Condition D.3 to
reflect that the security gate and attendant booth will be
moved uphill as a result.
5. The exterior color of the ECC shall be an earthtone color and
subject to review or modification by Staff.
6. Staff shall request and approve a lighting plan for the
project.
MOTION: Commissioner Alberio moved, seconded by Commissioner
Clark, to conceptually approve Conditional Use Permit No. 92 -
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November 10, 1992
Revision I'D" for the Education/conference Center (ECC), subject to
amended Draft Conditions of Approval. Motion passed 4-1, with
Commissioner Hayes dissenting because it is a massive, multi -story
complex.
QUESTIONS FROM AUDIENCE (regarding non -agenda items)
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, discussed four wheel drive
vehicles illegally entering the vacant property above her house
from the end of Barkentine Road.
ADJOURNMENT at 10:50 to November 21, 1992.
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