PC MINS 19910910MINUTES
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 10, 1991
The meeting was called to order at 6:01pm by Chairman Von
Hagen at Hesse Community Park, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT Von Hagen, McNulty, Hotchkiss, Brooks,
Katherman
ABSENT None
Also present were Director of Environmental Services Robert
Benard, Senior Planner Carolynn Petru, Assistant Planner Mike
Patterson and Project Planner Nancy Hutar.
It was agreed to move Item I'D", Conditional Use Permit 165,
up on the agenda to the first spot available after 7:30pm, as
per the request of the applicant.
COMMUNICATIONS
chairman Von Hagen acknowledged receipt of the following
communications regarding Zone Change No. 19:
- The draft final EIR
- A copy of a December 14, 1990 letter from RSA approving
the geotechnical reports for the project
- Letters from Messrs. Chui and Vannorsdall expressing
objection to the project
- The mitigation monitoring program
- The zone chance draft resolution
- A time extension to November 1, 1991 granted by the
applicant
CONSENT CALENDAR
A. Minutes of 8/13/91 -- Chairman Von Hagen asked that
Michael Mohler's comment about the possibility of the
golf course reverting to open space be confirmed before
approving the minutes.
B. MISCELLANEOUS HEARING _ SITE PLAN REVIEW NO. 6693
on the motion of Commissioner McNulty, Item B of the Consent
Calendar was approved, seconded by Commissioner Katherman and
passed without objection.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. ZONE CHANGE NO. 19, Senior Planner Carolynn Petru
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP presented the staff report
NO. 18947 regarding the applicant's
End of Windport Drive request to permit a zone change
and subdivision of an 8.8 acre
site into four single family residential lots. Staff's
recommendation is that the Commission provide Staff with
comments on the draft resolutions and conditions of approval
and continue the project to September 24, 1991.
Commissioner Katherman requested that the responsibility for
the mitigation monitoring program vested with the Building
Department be consistent with Long Point. Director Benard
proposed that there be an assessment district created to
maintain the peizometer system. the public hearing was
opened.
Tim Burrell, 57 Marguerite Drive, attorney representing the
applicant, stated he felt the 201 trail width requirement in
the conditions of approval with respect to Lots 2 and 3 was
excessive, and requested that the applicant be allowed to
split the easement between the two lots or just put a 151 one
on one lot so it would not adversely affect the design
parameters of the property. Mr. Burrell expressed no
objection to the mitigation monitoring program, and in
response to a query from Commissioner Brooks, said that they
would be willing to do a technical study of immediately
adjacent properties to document baseline conditions before
grading and construction begins, but that they were not
willing to indemnify those property owners.
Keith Tucker, 9032 Christine Drive, Hermosa Beach,
geotechnical expert representing the applicant, outlined the
geological situation of the area, stating that the amount of
uncompacted fill was not detrimental to development on the
site, projecting a possible settlement of 111 over 20 years
and 211 over 40 years, based on future estimates, not past
events. In response to several questions from Commissioner
Brooks, Mr. Tucker stated that the utilities would be placed
within protective corrugated metal pipe; that any additional
mitigation measures needed to protect surrounding homeowners
would be instituted as the project progressed, and that the
geotechnical consultants did indeed carry liability
insurance.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
Don Vannorsdall, 29513 Windport Drive, spoke in opposition to
the project, referring to his September 10 letter to the
Commission, stating he would prefer an independent inspector
not hired by the applicant, and suggested that Commissioner
Brooks' geotechnical questions be answered in writing by the
City and developer's geologists. Mr. Vannorsdall also stated
he felt that the public hearing should be continued.
J. J. McLaren, 3923 PVDS, also spoke in opposition to the
project, stating that he did not feel the City should allow
partial rezoning of a potentially hazardous area. Chairman
Von Hagen reminded the speaker that the applicant had merely
asked for the lot split, and that the Commission had
recommended a zone change so that there could be public
hearings.
Tim Burrell stated it would be no problem if the homeowners
wanted to hire an independent inspector, and stated he
expected nothing out of the ordinary during construction,
noting that the entire site from Hawthorne on down had been
studied, and that the water runoff situation would be dealt
with even more effectively after development than before.
Commissioner Brooks moved to continue the public hearing, and
Commissioner Katherman seconded the motion. chairman Von
Hagen pointed out that there had already been substantial
public hearings, and that the draft resolution would be
coming back at the next meeting. Mr. Von Hagen suggested
that the date for written correspondence could be extended,
but with the existing time constraints, he could not support,
the motion to continue. Commissioner Hotchkiss said he could
not support the motion either. Commissioner Katherman stated
he supported the motion because the mitigation monitoring
program and the final EIR both needed to be reviewed. The
question was called,.and the motion failed 2-3, with Chairman
Von Hagen and Commissioners McNulty and Hotchkiss dissenting.
Commissioner Hotchkiss then moved to close the public
hearing, and the motion passed 3-2, with Commissioners Brooks
and Katherman dissenting.
Commissioner Katherman expressed concern about participating
in the discussion since he had not had a chance to review the
tape and minutes from the previous meeting on the project,
but Director Benard indicated that even though he had not
done so, the fact that this was an ongoing public hearing and
that no official action was being taken, Mr. Katherman could
continue to participate in the discussion. Mr. Katherman
suggested that a homeowners association be established to
oversee maintenance of the open space and other aspects of
the site, and that a videotaped survey of the surrounding
houses be done in establishing the baseline previously
discussed. Commissioner McNulty stated that he felt the
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
baseline survey should not be an obligation. Chairman Von
Hagen noted that the trail report implied that the Hughes
Market parking lot was an access point to the'trails in the
project, and he questioned the appropriateness of this, since
it was private property. Director Benard stated this would
be addressed at the Conceptual Trails Plan meeting, and
should also be taken to the Recreation and Parks Department
and City Attorney for review.
Commissioner McNulty suggested that the trail easement be
placed on one or the other lot, but not split between the two
in case of future problems. Director Benard asked the
applicant to do some conceptual designs to show how that
might work and the resulting effect on buildable area. Mr.
McNulty also recommended a time limit of five years on the
dedicated easement, and Mr. Benard affirmed that the City
Attorney had also recommended this, although Commissioner
Hotchkiss stated he felt five years was too brief.
Commissioner Brooks expressed her concern about the City's
liability in the future with regards to the geology, and
Director Benard requested that she submit her geological
questions in writing.
(The following item was heard out of order as previously
noted)
D. CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
NO. 165
5300 Crest Road
958 sq. ft. addition to the
staff's recommendation is to
conditions.
Assistant Planner Mike
Patterson presented the
report regarding the
applicant's request to
existing living quarters.
approve the application
staf f
allow a
The
with
The public hearing was opened, and as there were no speakers
to the issue, it was closed. Mr. Patterson noted that the
applicant was in agreement with all conditions of approval,
and the staff recommendation was unanimously adopted.
RECESS AND RECONVENE A 15 minute break was called
at 7:40pm.
B. DEVELOPMENT CODE Project Planner Nancy Hutar
REVISIONS presented the staff report
regarding the proposed
amendments to certain sections of the Municipal code, in
particular Titles 16 and 17. Staff's recommendation is to
close the public hearing and consider resolutions
recommending City Council adoption of appropriate ordinances.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
In regards to grading, commissioner Katherman opined that an
ungraded, natural slope should be viewed with a higher
standard than something already graded, and that the code
sections regarding remedial grading need to be more specific.
The public hearing was opened.
-Tim Burrell, 57 Marguerite Drive, made the following
suggestions: That equal consideration be given to potential
property owners as to surrounding property owners in a
development situation; that the individual lots in RPDs be
allowed to have more useable yard area; that the Code should
differentiate between cubic yards outside and under the house
area; that maximum house size be eliminated and setbacks used
instead; that open space hazard boundaries be made more
accurate, and that the sections dealing with realtor signs in
the public right-of-way be clarified with respect to color
and permitted times of display. Chairman Von Hagen pointed
out that with regards to the RPD's, there are only a few
large tract areas left, and that it was the developer's
responsibility to make a case for the future homeowners. Mr.
Burrell stated he felt it was an underbalanced situation
because the developer was only one voice and the surrounding
homeowners were more.
Bruce Burrell, 87 Marguerite Drive, stated he felt that more
flexibility and originality should be encouraged in house
styles.
John Arand, 5731 Mistridge Drive, representing the RPV
Council of Homeowners Associations, spoke in support of the
second unit restrictions, and made other specific
recommendations as outlined in his September loth letter to
the commission.
Jeannette Mucha, 5538 Littlebow Road, also representing the
RPV Council of Homeowners Associations, expressed her
appreciation for the display ad in the PV News regarding this
hearing, and also referred to her September loth letter to
the Commission with suggested changes.
De De Hicks, 6120 Scotmist, asked for clarification regarding
commercial antennas. Chairman Von Hagen pointed out that the
entire section on antennas had been modified to bring it into
compliance with preemptive Federal regulations.
J. J. McLaren, 3923 PVDS, asked for clarification on building
heights on step lots.
Steve Kuykendall, 6544 Locklenna, suggested that the
homeowners associations have earlier input into this type of
process.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
Director Benard noted after reviewing the Arand and Mucha
letters, that many of the concerns were in regards to Code
sections that had merely been clarifications of existing Code
sections, sections relocated to other sections, and others
that were derived from state law.
Commissioner McNulty moved to close the public hearing,
Commissioner Hotchkiss seconded, and the motion passed 4-1
With Commissioner Brooks dissenting on the grounds that the
issue of RPD guidelines had not been addressed, and that
there needed to be further public input.
Commissioner McNulty then moved that the municipal code
revisions be prepared for submission to the City Council
pursuant to the comments made by the public and Planning
Commissioners. Commissioner Hotchkiss seconded the motion,
which then passed 3-2, with commissioners Brooks and
Katherman dissenting.
Commissioner Katherman commented that he would like to see
staff's response to some of the issues brought up, especially
with regards to establishing thresholds rather than maximum
floor areas for certain size houses on RS -1 and RS -2 lots.
Commissioner McNulty commented that it sounded like an art
jury system. Mr. Katherman then suggested modifying the,Code
to state on a square foot basis that a certain amount of
garage spaces would be available, and Director Benard pointed
out that this would create many requests for variances and
lots of non -conformities.
The motion was then restated
- P.C. Resolution No. 91-44,
- P.C. Resolution No. 91-45,
- P.C. Resolution No. 91-46,
Subdivision Map Act; and
- P.C. Resolution No. 91-47,
to include adoption of:
Draft Negative Declaration;
Title 17, Zoning and Title 16;
Title 16, compliance with
Title 8, dumping provisions
Commissioner Hotchkiss reiterated his second, and the motion
passed 4-0, with.Commissioner Brooks not present to vote.
RECESS AND RECONVENE A five-minute break was called
at 9:50pm.
C. VESTING TENTATIVE TRACT Director Robert Benard
MAP NOS. 50666 AND presented the staff report
50667; TENTATIVE PARCEL regarding the applicant's
MAP NOS. 23004 AND 29070; request to approve a 116 -lot
CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS single family residential
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
NO. 162 AND 163; GRADING development with an 18 -hole
PERMIT NO. 1541 AND public golf course, clubhouse
COASTAL PERMIT NO. 103 and maintenance facility with
Subregion 7 & S/PVDS common and public open space.
Staff's recommendation is to 1) Continue the public hearing
to September 23, 1991 at 7:30pm at Ladera Linda Community
Room; or 2) Continue the public hearing to September 24, 1991
and provide Staff with direction to prepare conditions of
approval; or 3) continue the public hearing as in Alternative
(1) and provide Staff with direction to start preparing
conditions of approval.
Commissioner Brooks questioned why there were 116 lots
instead of 108, and Mr. Benard explained that the density was
based on an evaluation of the total site and the fact that it
was zoned as an RPD.
Chairman Von Hagen asked applicant representative Michael
Mohler to confirm his statement in the minutes of August 13,
1991, that the developer was willing to restrict the golf
course area from further development so that if it were not
built or went out of business, the area would revert to open
space. Mr. Mohler confirmed that the statement was correct
with the intention that if they sought to affect the RPD
overlay, that would be the tradeoff. The minutes from the
Consent Calendar were then approved and the public hearing
was opened.
Michael Mohler, 25200 La Paz, Laguna Hills, representing the
PV'Land Holdings Company and Zuckerman family as applicants,
suggested that public testimony be taken tonight, with the
public hearing being continued to October 8, and that an open
forum be held on October 2 or 3 to allow the applicant's
geologists and civil engineers to answer questions from the
public, with the hopes that the conditions of approval would
then be initiated after that. Mr. Mohler also stated that
they would prefer a single -purpose coastal road in area #1
and separation of uses on the road outside the houses in area
#2 to minimize conflict between residents and those using the
coast recreationally. He also requested that they be allowed
to close off the roadway at night for security reasons.
Eric Randall, 6528 Madeline Cove Drive, representing the
Recreation and Parks Committee, spoke in favor of the
application, supporting the inclusion of the golf course if
public, of a links design, and with priority for RPV
residents. Mr. Randall also supported a nature center
associated with the clubhouse, blufftop amenities, controlled
access to the tidepools, and non -preservation of the military
sites.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
Chip Zelt, 4100 Seahorse Lane, also spoke in favor of the
project, and expressed concern about the security of the
coastal access.
Lawrence Burke, 3437 Palo Vista, representing the Seacliff
Hills Homeowners Association, spoke generally in favor of the
project, and suggested that Shoreline Park be made a part of
the golf course, and that landscaping of the median and south
side of PVDS from La Rotunda to the Portuguese Bend Club be
planted and maintained by the new homeowners association. He
also stated that the Seacliff Hills Homeowners Association
would landscape the upper part of PVDS.
/ John McSparran, 2409 Via Anita, PVE, spoke in favor of the
project, especially a links -type golf course.
Lee Byrd, 3663 Vigilance Drive, representing the Ladera Linda
Homeowners Association, supported the geotechnical open forum
suggested by the developer.
,/Dave Ruth, 40 Cinnamon Lane, spoke in favor of the project,
especially for future security reasons, suggesting
elimination of one of the bluff roads for more space.
Bob Moore, 3200 La Rotonda Drive, representing the Ocean
Terrace Board of Directors, stated that they were in favor of
the project.
Doug Foster, 4246 Admirable Drive, posed some questions off
the subject and was told to call the staff for answers.
Andrew Sargent, 1 Peppertree Lane, stated he was not opposed
to development on the site, just to a non -complying project.
Sharon Solari, 4145 PVDS, suggested that the public hearing
be kept open to discuss traffic and geological concerns.
Vincent Yen, 3931 PVDS, referred to his August 27, 1991
letter to the Commission opposing the project.
John Sharkey, 30320 Avenida de Calma, spoke against the
project, citing his September 10, 1991 letter to the
Commission, and asking that the public hearing be continued.
Steven Reiter, 4102 Dauntless, expressed concern about the
area geology, requesting that the developer provide
indemnification, as well as a deed restriction to prevent the
golf course from being sold if it fails.
Anthony Spignese, 4125 PVDS, argued that the Commission could
not vote on the project as no one lived in the slide area.
He was ruled out of order by Chairman Von Hagen.
U . • M
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
RECESS AND RECONVENE A 5 minute recess was called
at 11:30pm.
Ray Bara, 1 Peppertreep spoke against the project, expressing
concern about the geology, the number of proposed homes, the
road widths, and placement of plastic under the golf course,
and asked that the public hearing not be closed.
J. J. McLaren, 3923 PVDS, also recommended that the public
hearing remain open, and expressed concern about the alleged
bentonite layers under the property.
Lois Larue, expressed opposition to the project stating it
was against the Coastal Specific Plan.
Michael Mohler, applicant representative, explained why the
grading was not as excessive as Mr. Yen had alleged in his
letter, and that the gnatcatcher was not only not on the
endangered list as mentioned in Mr. Sharkey's letter, but
that its habitat would actually be increased in the
development. Mr. Mohler also stated that plastic sheets
would not be placed under the golf course, but rather that a
groundwater management program including long-lasting drains
and pipes would be instituted. He said that he would be
wiling to relocate wildlife and plants to a point, and also
reiterated his desire to continue the public hearing.
Chairman Von Hagen suggested closing the public hearing but
taking public input at the geological open forum. Director
Benard suggested conferring with the City Attorney as to the
appropriateness of the Commissioners going to a developer -
sponsored open forum. Mr. Benard also asked for direction
from approval. commissioner Hotchkiss recommended continuing
public hearing, and stated he felt that if the Commissioners
attended the meeting as observers it would not be considered
a violation of the Brown Act.
Commissioner Brooks moved to continue the public hearing to
October 8, with a direction to Staff to draft conditions of
approval in known areas. Commissioner Hotchkiss seconded the
motion, which passed unanimously.
Commissioner Hotchkiss objected to the lack of security of
the bluff road, and stated he would like to see it eliminated
totally, but if there had to be one, that there be a
mandatory close up at night. Chairman Von Hagen pointed out
that the City Council had provided clear direction that there
be a road, and he moved to leave the bluff roads as proposed
but that they be made single purpose as proposed by the
applicant and not service the homes. The motion was seconded
by Commissioner McNulty and failed 2-3, with Commissioners
Katherman, Brooks and Hotchkiss dissenting.
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PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
September 10, 1991
Commissioner Brooks moved to eliminate both bluff top roads
in areas #1 and #2. Commissioner Katherman seconded the
motion, which failed 2-3, with commissioners Hotchkiss and
McNulty and Chairman Von Hagen dissenting.
Commissioner Hotchkiss moved to eliminate the bluff road in
area #1, and to make the bluff road in area #2 single
purpose, as proposed by the applicant. The motion was
seconded by Commissioner Katherman and passed 3-2, with
Commissioner Brooks and Chairman Von Hagen dissenting.
Commissioner McNulty recommended that the lot sizes remain as
proposed by the applicant. Commissioners Katherman and
Brooks stated they would rather see only 108 homes on the 108
acres. Commissioner Hotchkiss said he felt it was arbitrary
if the lot sizes were agreed upon.
Chairman Von Hagen and Commissioners McNulty and Hotchkiss
expressed their support of the staff recommendations subject
to the geotechnical results, while commissioners Brooks and
Katherman disagreed.
There was, however, a consensus regarding the grading,
pending geotechnical approval. The Commissioners also agreed
that the proposed clubhouse parking was okay. Regarding the
Recreation and Parks Committee recommendations, Director
Benard felt that having a nature center needed to be further
defined and Commissioner McNulty agreed. Chairman Von Hagen
expressed his dislike of a links course, and he also agreed
with Commissioners Hotchkiss and McNulty that a deed
restriction would be appropriate for the golf course. On a
vote of 4-1, with Commissioner Katherman dissenting, it was
agreed to accept the proposed golf course use subject to
geotechnical results.
QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE
ADJOURNMENT
There were no questions from
the audience.
The meeting was adjourned
at 1:20am.
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