PC MINS 198602116
M I N U T E S
PLANNING COMMISSION U"
February 11, 1986
The meeting was called to order at 6:45 PM by Chairman Von Hagen at 29301
Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT: HODGE, VON HAGEN, WIKE
ABSENT: MC NULTY, ORTOLANO
Also present were acting Director of Environmental Services Ann Negendank,
Associate Planner Steve Rubin, Assistant Planner Greg Fuz and Director of
Public Works George Wentz.
COMMUNICATIONS
Letter from Mr. Anderson regarding continuance
of GR 854 Appeal. It was agreed to continue
the GR 854 Appeal to the next available date.
Letter from Mayor Peter Weber of Rolling Hills Estates concerning the Levitt GR 874,
Revision to GR 802.
Memo from acting Director of Environmental Services Ann Negendank regarding the
League of California Cities Planning Commission Institute Conference.
CONSENT CALENDAR
Resolution P.C. No. 86-4 The Commission discussed approving Resolution
P.V. Properties P.C. 86-4. Mrs. Wike noted her objection to
Forrestal Tract Nos. 7A and 21 of Exhibit "A".
Mr. Von Hagen moved to approve Resolution 86-4, seconded by Mr. Hodge and passed by
ma3ority with Mrs. Wike dissenting.
Minutes of January 14, 1986 Mrs. Wike moved to approve the January 14, 1986
minutes, seconded by-kfr; Von Hagen and passed -
unanimously.
Minutes of January 28, 1986,-, Paragraph 6, Page 4 was corrected to read,
"Chairman Von Hagen opened the public hearing."
The Commission discussed including the costs of maintaining a" -horse trail similar to
the one in The Ranch as a comparison figure for determining homeowner costs, the
accuracy of the numbers, the pertinence of including numbers from The Ranch, the
determination of comparison numbers to be a staff/Public Works responsibility, ands
the problem with including extraneous material in the minutes.
Minutes
February 11, 1986 "
Page 2
The January 28, 1986 minutes were tabled until the next regular scheduled meeting
so that the horse trail maintenance costs from The Ranch can be included as follows:
Costs for Maintaining 1 1/2 Miles of Horse Trails for One Year:
$ 11900.00 $3,000,000 Liability Insurance
4,800.00 Weed Abatement
2,000.00 Wood Chips
2,000.00 Wood Fence Maintenance
$10,700.00 139 Homes/$920.00 per Year per Homeowner
CONTINUED BUSINESS
PUBLIC HEARING
CUP 104, Variance 131 Assistant Planner Greg Fuz presented the
Kubicek, 18 La Vista Verde staff report on this request for a storage/
changing shed in an OH zone, tennis court
lighting, and a five car carport with the recommendations that the storage/changing
room and carport Variances be denied and the Conditional Use Permit for the tennis
court lights be approved.
Staff discussed conditions for tennis court light approval, the carport meeting
required setbacks, the storage room meeting required setbacks after the lot lines
are adjusted, the City having not received a lot line adjustment application, the
carport to be considered part of the main residence as a result of the breezeway/
bridge, and the second story addition can be attached or detached under the Code
as long as it does not have a kitchen.
The Commission discussed the second story living quarters to possibly be a
"granny" flat, to be part of the existing residence, and past denials of such
proposed units.
Chairman von Hagen opened the public hearing.
Mr. Josef Kubicek, 18 La Vista Verde, applicant, stated his interest in the
application to be mainly focused on the time allowed for tennis court light
useage.,voicediconcern over tearing down the storage/changing room, and noted
easement arrangements he made with neighbors. Mr. Kubicek also discussed -
a carport secondcstory__wi:ll'ndt be built, carport' -access -:to -be easier than
garage access, his opinion that the previous County permit included a storage/
changing room of existing dimensions, and his agreement with staff's proposed
conditions with the exception of the time allowed for the tennis court lights
requesting a 10:00 PM time limit.
Mr. Ed Masi, 17 La Vista Verde, voiced concern over Mr. Kubicek's intrusion on
his property, discussed the Grant Deed given to Mr. Kubicek, bills Mr. Kubicek
has not paid, and litigation proceedings regarding property intrusion.
Mr. Hodge moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mrs. Wike and passed
unanimously.
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 3
Staff noted the road easement to be a recorded easement.
The Commission discussed Code requirements for enclosed two car garages, Mr. Kubicek's
original County Variance, staff's recommendation of 7:00 AM -9:00 PM time limitation
for tennis court lights, intensity of the tennis court lights, the fire break,
the non -glare coating on the tennis court, 2,000 total wattage Code limitations
to-capply to residence security lighting, posting of a "No Smoking" sign, the color
of the tennis court surface, direction of the tennis court lights, and the existing
square footage of the changing ---room as opposed to the original requested square footage.
Mrs. Wike moved CUP 104 and Variance 131 be approved with the staff Conditions,
the storage/changing room be approved, and the carport not be approved but brought
into compliance with the Code requirement for two car enclosed garages. Mr. Von
Hagen seconded the motion.
In addition, the Commission discussed staff's recommendation that the storage/changing
room Variance be denied.
Mr. Hodge moved amendment to the motion include an addition to staff's Condition
No. 7 to read, "...and a 'No Smoking' sign be posted."
Mrs. Wike accepted the amendment and the motion passed unanimously.
INFORMAL HEARING
Grading 845 and 846 Assistant Planner Greg Fuz presented the
Vakili staff report onuthis request for approval
3841 and 3837 Crest Road of revised plans for two new single family
residences.with the recommendations to
approve GR No. 845 in--�concept as presented or with minor modification and refer
GR No. 846 back to applicant for redesign.
Staff requested Commission direction in regard to the exterior stairs, noted the
Conditional Use Permit title search for GR 846 to still be in process, voiced
concern over the GR 846 residence location and the 8' downslope retaining wall,
and the legality of lot.
Ms. Sherry Ikezawa, 10 W. Packsaddle, Rolling Hills Estates, applicant, discussed
GR No. 845 noting problems with moving the house, reducing the size of the house,
and no intentions to subdivide. Ms. Ikezawa also discussed GR No. 846 noting
concern over moving the house 16' more, time spent complying with City requirements,
and narrow driveways/high retaining walls. Ms. Ikezawa stated there to be no problem
with removing the outside stairs of GR No. 846.
Staff noted applicant was told several weeks ago to move-house—proposed i.n._GR._No. 846`
16' and stressed the Open _Space Hazard Zone designation_of__the land._ _
The Commission discussed GR No. 845 in regard to steepening the slope in order to
install a smaller retaining wall and minimizing the 67% slopes_adjacent to -the driveway.
The Commission discussed GR No. 846 in regard to moving the house an additional
16' and accepting staff's recommendations so that a compromise between staff and
applicant can be worked out.
The Commission also noted the difficulty of building on the lots.
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 4
Mr. Von Hagen moved to approve GR No. 845 and send GR No. 846 back to applicant
to try to resolve the 161 discrepancywithstaff and come up with a reasonable
alternative for both parties. The motion died for lack of a second.
The Commission discussed taking each issue as a separate item.
en moved to den
staff in _re--submitt
passed
GR.. No. 846, with direction to applicant_to work with_
E!L application. Mrs. Wike seconded and the motion -
Staff noted the six month time limit for the applications would lapse on March
@4ppl with redesign,
10, 1986,_if GR 845 application is denied_applicant can_r ly h rede
I _M9
_Q_R_8�45 application could be tabled until March 10 but the next available_
date is March 11, 1986, a new fee would be required should GR 845 application
expire, and a 90 day time extension on GR 845 is possible.
Mr. Von Hagen moved to approve GR No. 845 and the motion died for lack of a second.
o�
Mrs. Wike moved to approve GR No. 845 in concept_Airedting the applicant go back
and work with staff to explore the suggested staff alternatives for reducing
the driveway slope. The motion died for lack of a second.
The Commission discussed the GR No. 845 application with reference to placing
undue hardship on applicant, reducing the house size, compromises-' of staff/
applicant, establishing the legality of the lot_,_and-passilng the request if__
4ppliE_anf_would -4—gree to move Tfiie—house -back —according to staff's recommendations
in order to mitigate the 67/o driveway slope.___
Staff noted the GR No. 845 could be moved back about 101 or the family room
could be reduced so that the driveway would not be on as much of an extreme
slope.
Mrs. Wike moved to send GR No. 845 back to applicant so that applicant can work
with staff to mitigate the 67% slope, adjacent to the driveway.
Staff requested guidance regarding whether the Code prohibiting exterior stairs
on a second story addition applies to all new construction or only to additions,
discussed inside stairs to be currently allowed, the Commission giving applicant
strong direction, and grading codes with regard to view impairment.
The Commission discussed including outside stairs in the next work session,
GR No. 845 with regard to redesigning the house, the flexability of the GR No.
845 lot, and view impairment with regard to moving the house.
The motion passed by majority with Mr. Von Hagen dissenting.
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 5
Height Variation No. 426 Appeal
Robinson
2112 Crestwood Street
appeal of staff denial be denied.
C
Assistant Planner Greg Fuz presented the
staff report on this appeal of staff
denial for a second story addition.with
the recommendation that appellant's
Staff noted revised plans would reduce the Gibson's rear yard and den view by
40% and stressed view impact on the Gibson's lot to be significant based on
three considerations: (1) panoramic view would be eliminated; (2) 1/3 or more
of the porch view next to the living room would be obstructed; and (3) from a
cumulative perspective the addition should not be allowed because houses on
neighboring properties of similar magnitude would impair the Gibson's view
and would set a precedent for this type of addition.
The Commission discussed view analysis from primary living areas.
Staff noted that the Gibson's rear yard view is taken from the den, the porch
view is outside the setback and therefore taken as a viewing area, that a
viewing area does not have to be taken from the house if it is outside the
setback, and that views are taken from non -setback areas in order to protect
all potential primary and secondary views.
Mr. Mike Robinson, 2112 Crestwood, appellant, addressed the view consideration from
the Gibson's side porch and stated the view blockage would be only of trees and
not of the existing "view", discussed the ingress/egress of the Gibson's patio to
be difficult, lawnguard/patio equipment infront of the porch indicates the Gibson's
don't use the porch as a primary viewing area, the view impairment has been
reduced to 15-20%, the viewing area below 16' has been opened up to protect the
Gibson's view, the precedent setting issue noting at least 32 two-story homes
in the area, willingness to comply with staff's recommendations if they will
significantly help reduce the view obstruction, and the lowering of the entry
is not a significant reduction.
The Commission discussed street slope and the potential of precedent setting -
for future additions.
Interested residents were as follows:
Mr. Bob Encisco
Mr. Tom Vlahov
Mrs. H. B. Hobbs
Captain Thomas Gibson
Mary Gibson
2147 Fairhill Drive
2169 Fairhill Drive
2155 Fairhill Drive
2161 W. Fairhill Drive
2161 W. Fairhill Drive
Interested residents voiced concern over view obstruction, precedent setting,
objected to Mr. Robinson's stating a growing family as the need for more room,
the rebuilt fence height common with the 2155 property. Captain and Mrs.
Gibson noted the proposed Robinson addition would also obstruct their living
room view and cited a February 6 News Pilot article in which the City Attorney
from another _Ci_ty_s_tated his opinion regarding restrictions of heights and
,.precedent setting in that City.
Minutes
"February 11, 1986
Page 6
Staff discussed the lowering of the open space entry, requiring a covenant for
future property development, =the _Code to require chimneys to exceed the ridge_
height, and the proposed chimmney to be large but to not obstruct the views
as much as might be assumed because of the existing location of trees and
shrubs which are already taking away a filtered night view.
The Commission discussed precedent setting, view impairment/encouraging additions
which do not obstruct views, the proposed two-story open'entr_y,_ the _ �_' _ _ __
chimmney/ridgeline, property owners improving property/protecting homeowners'
rights with regard to significant abuse of view obstruction, appellant's efforts
to reach a reasonable compromise, supporting No. 3 of staff's Alternatives to
result in additional modifications which could continue to limit the degree of
impact to the Gibson's property, and requiring a covenant against any second
floor/two-story additions to the appellant's property.
Mr. Hodge moved to recommend approval of staff's Alternative No. 3, seconded
by Mr. Von Hagen.
The Commission voiced concern over the future cumulative effect on the entire
community and discussed alternatives of appellant building on surrounding
land without building up—
Staff
p—
Staff noted appellant's buildable area of 625 square feet on the ground floor would
include a pool in the backyard and that appeallant's propb e addition does, infact,
include adding to the ground floor.
The motion was passed by majority with Mrs. Wike dissenting.
The Commission reminded appellant to please further lessen the view impact on
the Gibson property during the revision,_process_and_noted_no..further_Commiss.i,on_
review of the item to be necessary.
Appeal rights were noted.
NEW BUSINESS
PUBLIC HEARING
Variance No. 133 Assistant Planner Greg Fuz presented the
Richards staff report on this request for a 118"
6110 Armaga Spring Road reduction in the required 5' sideyard for an
existing patio cover with the recommendation
that Resolution P.C. No. 86-7 be adopted, denying Variance Request No. 133.
Staff noted applicant to be increasing outdoor recreational area at the=_expense
of adjacent neighbors privacy and that applicant's house meets the setbacks for
the tract, the possibility of applicant being told a permit was not necessary,
the City not responsible for determining lot lines, and the enclosed covered
area to be closer than Code allows.
The Commission discussed moving the posts back and cutting the overhang
correspondingly, applicant's attempts to obtain information regarding City
permits, the possible error made in originally determining lot lines prior to/
during construction of the patio cover to not be relevant to the application,
and the house being improperly sited on the lot.
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 7
Chairman Von Hagen opened the public hearing.
Ms. Kerry Richards, 6110 Armaga Spring Road, applicant, related her phone
conversations with the City regarding permits and stated she was told a
permit was not necessary, footings were dug and poured for posts, she
never received notice from the City concerning the footings after pool
inspection, she received a Code violation notice three months after the over-
:'h� was built, the Assistant District Attorney's advice that a Variance Application
was in order, the purpose of the covered patio is for shade, addressed fire
access/safety related to setbacks, questioned staff's "privacy" reasoning,
and voiced concern over the financial hardship involved related to removing the
posts.
Interested residents were:
Mr. Tom Smith
Mr. Gunther Merli
6102 Armaga Spring Road
28810 King Arthur Court
Interested residents stated opinions that the overhangs does not infringe on the
neighboring property's privacy, the overhang is aesthetically appealing, and
recommended the Variance be approved.
Mrs. Wike moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mr. Von Hagen and
passed unanimously.
Staff suggested the Commission approve the overhang in concept so that staff
can bring back -appropriate findings for the approval.
Mrs. Wike moved to approve Variance No. 133 in conceptseconded by Mr. Hodge.
The Commission discussed the findings for the Variance.
The motion was passed unanimously.
Appeal rights were noted.
Staff requested the Commission direction regarding findings for the Variance.
The Commission stated findings for the Variance,tb were to be incorporated
into the approving resolution. - — -----= _--= - _
S
1
i
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 8
INFORMAL HEARING
Grading No. 854 Appeal
Anderson
1941 Upland Street
Continued at the---r-equest of the applicant
Grading No. 874 Associate Planner Steve Rubin presented the
Revision to Grading No. 802 staff report on-thib, request to -construct a
Levitt temporary construction road on a hillside
and to revise requirement for traffic
signal installation at Deep Valley Drive and Silver Spur Road with the recommen-
dation that the Commission revise Condition No. 12 of GR 802.
Staff discussed a Hold Harmless Agreement with regard to liability,] Rolling Hil
_
Estates requiring a signal at the location when two buildings are completed and
not for one building
Mr. Thomas P. Black, 279 W. 7th Street, San Pedro, project architect, discussed
one parcel in Rolling Hills Estates and one parcel in Rancho Pa os erdes,
the "temporary" road including the definition of "temporary", slope stabilization,
staff's excellent report, Page 3 of staff's Recommendations with regard to
the condition of the homes above the property before/after the pilings are
installed, stockpiling of excavated dirt on the Rolling Hills side of the property
---'any,�excess will be hauled away-- and assuming no problem with parking the
equipment on the Rolling Hills Estates property, and asked for clarification
regarding the signal. Mr. Black noted the Hold Harmless Agreement with regard
to Mr. Levitt having no control over same and stated the Peninsula Rim Homeowners'
Association president attended every'Rolling Hills Estates City Council meeting
r
statingnoobjections-once-,the project was approved
Staff discussed the caissons and the temporary access road in Rancho Palos Verdes,
application for building to be on file, geology of site in, review, the need for
the permit of an'
-,access road would not arise until late September/early October, no
written correspondence from the Peninsula Rim Homeowners' Association, and the
Rolling Hills Estates method of slope stabilization isi to be the same for Rancho
Palos Verdes
The Commission discussed Rolling Hills Estates taking testimony from Rancho
Palos Verdes residents, the Traffic Committee recommending a signal at the
location when two buildings were the subject of the application to develop, the
Rolling Hills Estates method of slope stabilization, sending a letter to the
president of the Peninsula Rim Homeowners! Association to determine its opinion
on the issue, approving staff's recommendation stressing every protection must be
made to insure slope stabilization and if the proposed method is not the very bestwhat
method might be better, stockpiling, and heavy construction equipment storage.
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 9
Staff noted Rolling Hills Estates and Rancho Palos Verdes are working together
to determine the best slope stabilization method, reports studying site geology
did not end at the City of Rancho Palos Verdes boundary line, geotechnical
design parameters for the caissons are in transit to the City Geologist for
review, stockpiling will have to take place on the Rolling Hills Estates lot/
be hauled away/or used as fill, storage of heavy construction equipment, and
the property owner's liability for whatever happens on the property no matter
what the 3urisdiction is.
Ms. Jeannette Mucha, 5538 Littlebow Road, voiced concern over slope stabili-
zation, discussed the contractor returning the slope to its natural state and_
;,what if the slope_fails_during construction
Staff discussed apr)licant posting the signal bond prior to appying for the road_per_-
_mit, the selection _of_the access road _lo_catio_n/configuration,__Roll.ing_Hills Estates
requiring Hold Harmless Agreements from commercial developers! Hold Harmless
Agreements to be common when pro3ect access involves public streets,
-City Attorney's opinion that the Hold Harmless Agreement would be in force
as long as the applicant owns the lot and remains solvent, closely monitoring
the temporary road's possible damage to the parcels, applicant's request to not;
apply -to the Hold Harmless Agreement but to bonding, and consulting with
Rolling Hills Estates with regard to the curb cut.
The Commission discussed the long-term ramifications related to the building
collapsing and the City's liability with regard to same,adequately monitoring
the pro3ect, the existing access road being restored,. ^ the Hold Harmless
Agreement being required until signalization as a benefit to the City, posting
a performance bond for restoring.th_e access road, and_placing__a-time_.-limit-on
the temporary road.
Mr. Von Hagen moved to approve GR 802 in accordance with staff's Alternative
No. 2 with a Hold Harmless Agreement and to give staff leeway if unalterably
convinced that the Hold Harmless Agreement should expire when the signal goes
in and the second 50% of the bond is proposed to be posted with Rancho Palos
Verdes and can be a bond or a cash deposit. The motion was seconded by Mrs.
Wike and passed unanimously.
QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE None
REPORTS
STAFF Staff discussed Code Amendment 20 with
regard to the extreme slope permit approach
noting it was Code Amendment 20's intentions to deal with grading on extreme slopes
, associated with accessory_ structures being built, and not gradingfretain' _
walls unrelated to accessory structures and recommend -e4 -the -existing review
method remain. The Commission noted its agreement with staff's recommendations,
Minutes
February 11, 1986
Page 10
COMMISSION The Commission discussed Code loopholes
with regard to second units and requested
staff research this item and bring same back for discussion.
Staff discussed the next time an amendment to the Code is formulated as the
appropriate time to address the second unit loopholes.
The Commission discussed correspondence from acting Director of Environmental
Services Ann Negendank including:
League of California Cities Conference
March 12-14, 1986
Staff noted the budget supports three commissioners attending.
Mrs. Wike, Mr. Hodge and Mr. Von Hagen voiced interest in attending.
Financial disclosure forms were also discussed.
ADJOURNMENT Mr. Hodge moved to adjourn the meeting
at 10:40 PM until February 25, 1986,
seconded by Mr. Von hagen and passed
unanimously.