PC MINS 19840828(0,I)
M I N U t E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
August 28, 1984
The meeting was called to order at 6:30 p.m. at the Hesse Park Community
Building at 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT: BROWN, ORTOLANO, VON HAGEN, WIKE
ABSENT: McNULTY
Also present were Associate Planner Steve Rubin, Assistant Planner Greg
Fuz, Secretary Ann Brenesell and Senior Planner Ann Negendank.
COMMUNICATIONS: None
CONSENT CALENDAR
RESOLUTION NO. P.C. 84-23 - Ms. Jan Konzak addressed the Commission.
APPROVING CONDITIONAL USE She inquired about Condition #2 of
PERMIT #91, PALOS VERDES Exhibit A and asked whether other institu-
SCHOOL DISTRICT tional and non -institutional organizations
are subject to providing a schedule and
also referred to Condition #8 relative to
the control of sub -leases.
Mr. Rubin stated that both conditions were responses to concerns of the
Commission.
Dr. Brown cited similar uses relative to control of sub -leases in the
operation of shopping centers.
Ms. Konzak suggested an alternative to Condition #2 was to present a list
of uses at the beginning of the CUP and inform Environmental Services of
any new uses. Relative to Condition #8 she suggested review by the
Director of Environmental Services as opposed -to approval.
It was the consensus of the Commission to -change Condition #2 to read:
...provide the City with a list of all uses to occur at the'school site at
the beginning of the CUP and at the time of the change of scheduling.
After discussion, the consensus of the Commission was to retain the
language of Condition #8 because it was believed to be necessary to review
sub -lessees just as it is necessary to review the initial lessees.
Dr. Brown recommended approval of CUP 91 and Resolution No. P.C. 84-23 as
amended with attached conditions; seconded by Mr. Von Hagen and passed
unanimously.
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GRADING #655 - The staff report was presented by
#6 YELLOWBRICK ROAD Associate Planner Steve Rubin. A brief
background was given. The request is to
construct a new single family residence
on a lot with a total average slope exceeding 35%. Mr. Rubin thought no
views would be obstructed and the natural grades would be maintained. He
stated that it was staff's opinion that Grading Application #655 meets the
criteria and intent of the City's Development code and General Plan. He
recommended approval of Grading Application No. 655.
Lamar Robinson, 1455 Crenshaw Boulevard was available for questions.
There were none.
Mrs. Wike moved to approve Grading Application #655; seconded by
Mrs. Ortolano and passed unanimously.
Dr. Brown advised that this application is appealable to the City Council.
GRADING #739 - APPEAL The staff report was presented by
5549 MISTRIDGE Assistant Planner Greg Fuz. He said the
request is to allow the construction of
a deck which would require footings to be
placed on a 66% slope. He gave a brief background as outlined in the
staff report. Photographs were displayed. He stated the considerations
as listed in the staff report. He said that staff believed that the
General Plan does not support grading on that type of slope without the
Commission's approval and thought the project could be scaled down and the
deck could remain on the lawn area. He recommended denial of Grading
Application #739 -Appeal.
Mrs. Ortolano cited two areas from the Development Code, pages 32 and 40
and asked if there was any specific danger to health, safety of welfare of
the public.
Mr. Fuz said development on such slopes increases landslide erosion
problems and the issue is avoiding potential geologic problems. He said
the General Plan specifically states non-structural uses.
Mrs. Wike asked about low intensity use.
Mr. Fuz said low intensity uses are no structures, like trails.
Discussion ensued relative to the deck as an accessory structure as opposed
to a primary structures and an accessory structure is not necessary for the
primary enjoyment of the property.
Mrs. Wike asked about a policy change relative to approval of these types
of structures.
Mr. Fuz explained the approval process was changed from a Site Plan Review
process to a Grading Application as a result of prior Planning Commission
concern. He said there was no specific change in code. It became a policy
change by staff based on Planning Commission concerns. The Commission felt
there was a proliferation of decks.
Commission requested staff to bring back the background of that policy
change together with prior minutes.
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Mr. Douglas Talley, 5549 Mistridge Road, landowner addressed the Commission
with the following comments. He said there was nothing outstanding about
this deck and that there were other decks built that have similar footings
in the slope and there are no geologic problems.
He stated only 50% of the deck would extend over the side of the hill. He
thought the deck had been rejected because of the footings and not because
of size. He commented that cantilevering would be economically prohibitive.
He said there would be no grading; only cut and fill; and there would be
additional protection from run-off by the deck itself and the concrete
swale provided additional drainage for the hill.
Dr. Brown asked if the already built decks were built prior to the incorpor-
ation of the City.
Mr. Talley thought one was constructed after 1979.
Dr. Brown advised that cut and fill is considered grading and he also
commented that the Commission is not concerned with aesthetics and economics.
Dr. ,Brown then asked if the deck would interfere with the swale.
Mr. Talley said no.
Mrs. Ortolano asked the dimensions of the deck over the hill.
Mr. Talley said it would extend 16 feet over the slope.
Mrs. Wike listed dates of some decks already built - 1968, 1973, 1976 and
1979. It was determined that two were built prior to incorporation of the
City and two were built prior to the change in policy.
Mr. Ralph Witten, 2733 Pacific Coast Highway, Torrance, architect, said
the existing decks have proven there has been no erosion and discussed the
built-in safety factors.
Dr. Brown asked if cantilevering out 16 feet on a slope greater than 35%
would be safe.
Mr. Witten replied yes.
Further discussion centered around the possibility of cantilevering and
its practicality.
The rationale of the Commission was as follows: Mr. Von Hagen supported
staff's recommendation. Mrs. Ortolano thought it_appropriate to decide
these applications on a case by case basis. Mrs. Wike opposed staff's
recommendation based on the fact of the already built decks in the area.
Mr. McNulty had no comment. Dr. Brown was concerned with grading on a
slope and concurred with staff. He did not think the previous decks were
an appropriate criteria since they were constructed prior to incorporation
and the policy change.
Dr. Brown moved to deny the appeal of Grading 739, seconded by Mr. Von Hagen
and passed on a 4 - 1 vote.
Dr. Brown advised this application is appealable to City Council within 15
days.
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CIP FOR FISCAL By consensus of the Commission, this item
YEAR 184-185 was moved to the end of the agenda.
GRADING 730 - APPEAL A brief staff report was presented by
2809 VIA EL MIRO Associate Planner Steve Rubin. At the
direction of the Commission, staff met
with the applicants to consider alter-
natives including the possibility of a Height Variation. After staff
conducted a view analysis using a 25 foot maximum height, it was determined
there is a potential for view impairment to the adjacent neighbor. He
stated it is difficult to precisely determine the degree of impact without
specific plans. Mr. Rubin stated an appeal by the surrounding homeowners
would be likely. Photographs were distributed.
Discussion ensued relative to pilings, and original versus the modified
application, floor area, location of cesspool and alternatives.
Staff's position is that the subject lot has a limited buildable area and
the proposed addition is too large for the area. Therefore, staff recom-
mended upholding denial of the original application as well as the modified
application to Grading No. 730 - Appeal.
Mr. Von Hagen asked what changes needed to be made to satisfy staff.
Mr. Rubin replied that staff did not have the ability to approve a structure
in the slope.
Mr. Von Hagen asked how many pilings were needed to support the living area.
Mr. Rubin said he was not qualified to respond.
Mrs. Wike asked if staff would have approved the structure if it were the
primary structure.
Mr. Rubin said it was difficult to say. For a new house, staff would
consider the graded pad as the appropriate area to locate the structure.
The application would be denied if construction went beyond the pad
area.
Lengthy discussion continued relative to pilings in the slope.
Mr. Gallio, 2809 Via El Miro, reiterated his purpose for the increased
living area. He said cantilivering was not recommended by his engineer.
The cesspool is located to the west side of the addition so therefore, that
alternative is not feasible. His neighbors, the O'Hares have indicated
they would protest a Height Variation. Therefore, he said there are no
other workable alternatives available. He discussed the proposed addition.
He believed his request is reasonable and that this addition is for
necessity purposes and not luxury and that the expansion is his right to
enjoy his property.
Dr. Brown discussed self-imposed hardship.
Discussion continued relative to clarification of the square footage of
the addition. It was determined that 900 square feet was for the expansion
of living area and 400 square feet for the deck.
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Mrs. Ortolano moved to deny appeal to Grading #730; seconded by Dr. Brown.
Roll Call: AYES: ORTOLANO, BROWN
NOES: McNULTY, VON HAGEN, WIKE
Mrs. Ortolano thought the living area over the slope was the problem. she
said the project being proposed is too large for the lot. She did not
think removal of the deck would be enough of an adjustment.
Mr. Von Hagen was concerned with the number of pilings. He could see the
effort of the applicant to improve a smaller house and their concern for
the neighbors relative to a Height Variation. He believed the house
needed additional space to suit the family needs.
Mr. McNulty thought the expansion was too large, but thought it was dead
space and did not offend anyone; therefore, he did not think the applicants
should be denied the use of the property.
Mrs. Wike thought the proposed size was excessive and that the Height
Variation would impair the neighbors. She recommended reducing the
proposed addition.
Dr. Brown thought the project was simply too large for the area and the
lot did not have the expansibility. He suggested cantilevering as an
option.
The motion was restated by Mr. Von Hagen to approve the appeal thus
overturning staff's denial, seconded by Mr. McNulty and passed on a 3-2
vote.
Roll Call: AYES: McNULTY, VON HAGEN, WIKE
NOES: ORTOLANO, BROWN
RECESS 8:40 P.M.
RECONVENED 8:50 P.M.
VARIANCE 108 Dr. Brown advised that Variance 108 was
inadvertently omitted from the agenda.
He stated that legally it must be put
on the agenda and the public hearing continued. It was the consensus of
the Commission to do so thereby opening the public hearing and continuing
the item.
REVISION TO TENTATIVE Associate Planner Steve Rubin presented
TRACT MAP 37885 AND the staff report and gave a brief history
CONDITIONAL USE of events. He stated that a large number
PERMIT #79 of the original conditions of approval
relate to geology. He further discussed
the proposed development and its proposed
revisions as being a result of the soils engineer and geologist findings
that a large amount of material underlying Mainsail Drive is of poor quality.
He said the request is to change the alignment of Mainsail Drive by read-
justing the approved lot configuartion. Three lots would be relocated in
the proposed revision. Lots 45 and 46 would be at the southernmost tract
boundary while lot 47 would be located at the end of Coolheights Drive. A
cul-de-sac was to be built at the end of Coolheights. Lot 45 and 46 would
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be in an area zoned open space hazard, and which is also identified as a
likely Palos Verdes Blue Butterfly colony. This last item is the primary
concern relating to the proposed revision. Mr. Rubin also stated that the
applicant had informed staff that they would be open to ideas re improving
the end of Hightide Drive and expanding Horse trails. The approved Tenta-
tive Tract Map indicates a riding trail which is not proposed to be changed.
The applicant has contacted Dr. Richard Arnold to conduct a field survey
regarding the Palos Verdes Blue Butterfly and prepare a supplement to final
EIR #16. Mr. Rubin stated that the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service requested
to review the proposed plan along with Dr. Arnold's findings.
Concerns then centered around the existing cliffs, utility poles and horse
trails.
The three alternatives were read as written in the staff report.
Dr. Brown stated that in earlier Planning Commission meetings, the geology
was the primary consideration.
Discussion ensued relative to the horse trails and undergrounding the
utilities. I
Dr. Brown opened the public hearing.
Mr. Ken Marks, Palos Verdes Properties, 3838 Carson, Suite 220, Torrance
expanded on the process of the revision. He said the butterfly issue is
important to the approval of the project which involves Lots 45 and 46.
He stated the poles in question are not on his property, but he would look
into the situation. He acknowledged the concerns of the Commission.
Staff was instructed by the Commission to check with the City Attorney
relative to dealing with the poles not on the applicant's property.
Mrs. Ortolano asked the applicant his feeling about increasing the horse
trails.
Mr. Marks replied he had no objection; additional trails could be dedicated
on the map.
Mrs. Ortolano asked about the structure at the end of Hightide Drive.
Mr. Marks said he did not have the final street plan. Hightide was not
feasible for a cul-de-sac. Perhaps a turn -around could be investigated.
Mr. Rubin discussed the original rationale behind the cul-de-sac on
Hightide.
The following citizens addressed the Commission with concerns about the
possibility of a new landslide and spoke in opposition to the revision to
Tentative Tract Map 37885.
Mr. Jan Smith, 3855 Pirate Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Max Thomas, 3849 Pirate Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
The following citizens were concerned that adequate provisions be made for
equestrian/hiking trails through the area:
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Mrs. Linda Miller, 2283 Carriage Drive, Rolling Hills Estates, representing
the Palos Verdes Peninsula Horseman's Association.
Ms. Judy Schnerk, 3444 Hightide Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes.
The following citizens were concerned with having the remaining utilities
placed underground:
Mrs. Sachi Nakano, 3756 Coolheights Drive
Ms. Lani Todd, 3774 Falconhead Drive
Ms. Joanne Cooper, 3764 Coolheights Drive
Mr. John Merrill, 3770 Coolheights Drive
Mrs. Ortolano stated that she lived at the end of Coolheights and she too
would like to see the utility poles placed underground.
Mr. McNulty moved to continue the public hearing, seconded by Mrs. Wike
and passed on a 3-2 roll call vote.
Mrs. Ortolano expressed concerns about the trails and the butterfly
issue.
Dr. Brown reiterated the four issues as: (1) trails, (2) utility poles,
(3) Geology of lots 45 and 46 and (4) Palos Verdes Blue Butterfly.
Mrs. Wike asked about the CC&R's and equestrian easement and the three
rail fences.
Mr. Von Hagen was concerned with the common area maintenance and concerned
with the City's liabilities with hazardous conditions.
Dr. Brown reiterated the main issue is to change the configuration of
Mainsail, Ms. Ortolano concurred.
He stated the butterfly issue cannot be dealt with until the first rains.
He proposed making this a condition of approval.
CIP FOR FISCAL The Commission discussed the various
YEAR 184-'85 Capital projects identified in the pro-
posed 1984-85 through 1988-1989 Capital
Improvement Program. The consensus of
the Commission was opposed to a sand volleyball court at Del Cerro Park
because this is not an improvement for a passive park.
Senior Planner Ann Negendank replied that the priority of the court was
lowered by the City Council.
Reference was made to the ball diamonds at Portuguese Bend and Rancho
Palos Verdes Park and the real need for both facilities.
Ms. Negendank said there was no intention to delete either improvement.
Relative to the trails, it was asked if the $10,000 budgeted could be
spent on a traffic signal.
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Ms. Negendank said the money set aside for trail uses could be used for a
signal if the signal was needed for trail purposes.
The Sanitation district was mentioned relative to the $100,000 budget, and
the discussion centered around whether this was enough money to actually
make the necessary improvements and whether the money, if not enough,
would be better spent elsewhere.
Dr. Brown moved that the Planning Commission finds the 1984-85 Capital
Projects consistent with the General Plan; it was seconded and passed
unanimously.
ADJOURNMENT
It was moved and passed to adjourn at
11;20 P.M. to Saturday, September 8th
at 8:00 A.M. at Coco's Restaurant in
San Pedro.
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