PC MINS 19840814M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
August 14, 1984
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. at the Hesse Park Community
Building at 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT: BROWN, ORTOLANO, VON HAGEN, WIKE, McNULTY
ABSENT: NONE
Also present were Associate Planner Steve Rubin, Assistant Planner
Pedroni, Secretary Ann Brenesell, Director of Environmental Services Sharon
Hightower, City Manager Don Guluzzy, Mayor Bacharach, and City Councilman
Doug Hinchliffe.
CONSENT CALENDAR It was the consensus of the Commission
to move the CIP to the end of the meeting.
MINUTES OF
JULY 24, 1984
The following corrections were made: on
Page 4, a comma was inserted between the
words La Cresta and Mesa.
Also page 4, was changed to read between January - September 1985 and not
1984. On Page 5, insertion of ...City Council thought it was appropriate
for a Conditional Use procedure for the Temple Beth El use. On Page 1,
under Tentative Tract Map 40640, it was changed to read: ...about the
height measurement ,problem which arose in the application for a permit on
Calle de Suenos...
Mr. Von Hagen moved to approve the minutes as amended, seconded by
Mr. McNulty and passed unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 90 Assistant Planner Gary Pedroni presented
22 CAYUSE LANE the staff report stating it was a request
to allow an 800 square foot addition to
be made to an existing retirement/boarding
home at 22 Cayuse Lane and to allow an additional four patients. This use
would include a total of 15 patients. He briefly outlined and referred to
the staff report of June 26, 1984.
Staff had directed the applicant and applicant's architect to find the
capacity of the septic tank and leachfield to determine if this expansion
could be handled on this site. The volume of the septic tank had not been
established. The leachfield could not be found. Staff, therefore, put
together an estimate of what would be required on the basis of sewage
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flow per person, number of bedrooms, and soil type. An average of 2,500
square feet is needed for the leachfield. Taking into account the Uniform
Plumbing Code, required setbacks from slopes and 100% backup, the total
area needed on this site is 5,000 square feet to have a workable system
with the proposed intensity of use. The site is 4,500 square feet short.
Mr. Pedroni said the findings remain the same as the staff report of
July 26, 1984.
Staff could not make any of the findings. Therefore, it was staff's recom-
mendation to adopt Resolution P.C. No. 84- denying Conditional Use
Permit 90.
Dr. Brown referred to a letter which stated that the percolation tests
were adequate.
Mr. Pedroni explained that it was done by the pr03ect architect whose
Sanitation Engineer established the total figure of 2,500 square feet
based on the number of bedrooms; that figure coincided with the figures
staff had worked up. The problem is available area suitable for the
leaching system. The architect came up with 3,000 square feet and was
unaware of the plumbing code requirements for building setbacks and 100%
backup area.
Dr. Parvis Parsa,23712 South Main, Carson, CA., applicant, stated he felt
uncomfortable because proving enough sewage disposal capacity when there
has never been a sewage problem is difficult. After Tuesday's review, it
was decided there was not adequate sewage disposal area. He felt there
was misunderstanding and apprehension amongst the neighbors also. He
stated his intention was to upgrade the property and he did not agree
there is a parking or noise problem and deferred to his architect relative
to the review of the sewage concern.
Mrs. Ortolano asked how many cars could be parked in the driveway.
Dr. Parsa answered, easily three cars.
Mr. Belak-Berger, 415 North Broadway, #6D, Redondo Beach, Architect, said
in light of the recent data, there was not enough time to digest the
material. The codes that govern the design of the leachfields were over-
looked and thus they concluded substantial portions of the lot would become
useless. A new architectural statement is necessary to address the needs.
He thought the location initially requested is not the correct location
and continued to discuss alternatives.
Dr. Brown stated this is a different application and suggested the proceed-
ings be continued.
Mr. Pedroni said anything that would expand the use of the property would
still require 5,000 square feet available for the leachfield and was not
in agreement with a continuation.
Mr. McNulty stated the Commission cannot redesign the project and thought
a continuance would be appropriate.
PLANNING COMMISSION -2- 8/14/84
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Dr. Brown clarified that a problem still existed with the leachfield and it
was a severe constraint and perhaps the applicant could meet with staff to
solve the problem.
Ms. Ortolano said she found more wrong with the proposal than the sewage
problem. Parking,, noise, degradation of property values were all expressed
concerns.
Mr. Von Hagen also said there were other areas of concern. Since the
application is different, he thought the Commission should not proceed.
He stated he had a problem with the leachfield.
Mrs. Wike shared the Commission's concern about the leachfield. She
expressed further concern about noise, parking, and open space.
Mr. McNulty spoke about fairness to the applicant and was in favor of
allowing time for alternatives.
Dr. Brown suggested continuance of the public hearing to allow the applicant
time to redesign his project. He reiterated his concerns.
Mr. Rubin said the scope of the project would not be changing other than
the location of the addition.
Dr. Brown said that in fairness the applicant needs to be allowed to
present his new application.
Dr. Brown moved to continue the public hearing, seconded by Mr. McNulty,
and passed unanimously.
Staff was advised to renotice the application.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT Associate Planner Steve Rubin stated that
NO. 91 attached to the staff report of 8/14/84
PVPUSD is the staff report of 7/24/84 and the
MIRALESTE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL minutes of 7/24/84. He stated the differ-
ence between the applications is that the
present application includes the proposed
Harbor Foundation for the Retarded. At the last meeting, the Planning
Commission asked for clarification of 6 items. Mr. Rubin reiterated those
items and said the applicant had attempted to provide complete responses
to those items. Mr. Rubin believed the most important item is that the
overall use of the site does not exceed the intensity of the site as that
its use as an elementary school facility. Staff was provided a plan to
restripe the parking lot. It is possible to obtain 35 parking spaces that
do meet the standard requirements for parking. Staff recommended a
stipulation for overflow parking needed to be directed to Miraleste High
School. The question before the Commission was if the uses are appropriate
for the site now then they would be appropriate 6 months or a year from
now. It is, therefore, staff's recommendation that Commission adopt
Resolution P.C. 84- with the conditions of approval as attached in
Exhibit A, and these conditions include time limits relating to the Harbor
Foundation for the Retarded and Temple Beth El for occupancy no later than
September 1985.
PLANNING COMMISSION -3- 8/14/84
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Mr. Von Hagen aired concern about the evening hours of usage. He saw a
major differentiation of usage and did not think these facilities are
easily adaptable for the proposed uses.
Mr. Rubin stated that adult usage would only be two evenings a week.
Mrs. Ortolano asked about the ability to control sub -leasing. She was
concerned with the ability of the Commission to review any use for the
school property that is different from the Harbor Foundation for the
Retarded, Temple Beth El and First Church of Christ Scientist.
Further discussion ensued relative to adults vs. children usage, noise,
and hours of usage.
Dr. Brown referred to Mrs. Konzak's letter to staff, paragraph 4, regarding
scheduling by the District Office. He questioned the control factor if
the scheduling is maintained through that office.
Mr. Rubin said a monthly submittal schedule was discussed.
Mrs. Wike asked about enforcement of overflow parking.
Mr. Rubin explained that complaints would be referred to the Code Enforce-
ment Inspector for direct follow-up.
Mrs. Wike asked about staff's ability to cease the activity if many
complaints were registered.
Mr. Rubin referred to Condition #8, which states that the approval may be
revoked by staff action or by the Commission if any conditions are not
carried out.
Mrs. Ortolano thought a monthly schedule would be burdensome for the City
as well as for the School District and excessive entanglement in the
operation of the facility. She asked if any other property users in the
City needed to submit a monthly schedule.
Jan Konzak, PVP Unified School District, 3801 La Selva, Palos Verdes
Estates, indicated she spoke to the President of Miraleste Homeowners
Association and asked her to review the matter with its Board. The Board
indicated a favorable response to allowing the Harbor Foundation for the
Retarded as well as the other uses at the site. In response to the
inquiries about different usages and the hours of usage, Ms. Konzak
deferred to Rabbi Lieb for specifics. She also responded to the issue of
sub -leasing. She stated the School District's intention, under the Civic
Center Act, is for the type of uses within the definition of the Civic
Center Act and requests that do not meet the criteria would be rejected.
Also, Civic Center uses need to be scheduled two weeks in advance. The
number of evenings would be approximately 4 evenings per week and not
later than 9:30 P.M.
Parking enforcement was also discussed.
Dr. Brown spoke about the intensity issue.
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Mr. Rubin said the resolution and conditions address the time limits for
Temple Beth El and Center and the Harbor Foundation. He thought it would
become burdensome to review each and every Civic Center use.
Dr. Brown said the Commission would not be giving a carte blanche for all
large organizations.
Lengthy discussion ensued about adult usage by the Temple Beth El.
Rabbi David Lieb, 6908 Kings Harbor, RPV, clarified the Temple Beth El's
usages. He stated Tuesday evening use for Jr. High programs and Monday
and Thursday usage for adult programs. He also stated he would be willing
to change these to another appropriate time, if necessary.
Dr. Brown asked about the frequency of religious services on Friday
evenings and about the date of occupancy.
Rabbi Lieb replied that he did not have that information yet. He thought
it would not be in September. It could possibly be between October and
January. He said the Temple would only need the facility for religious
services for a period of one month, four Friday nights.
Dr. Brown reiterated the concerns about traffic in relation to these services.
Mr. Von Hagen asked if there would be a problem with a condition of 9:00 P.M.
termination of activity.
Rabbi Lieb said 9:00 P.M. termination of adult meetings would be difficult
but 10:00 P.M. would be more reasonable.
Maria Lawrence, 600 W. 8th Street, San Pedro, represented the Harbor
Foundation for the Retarded and stated the intent was to operate a pre-
vocational program for mentally retarded adults and a pre-school program
for the developmentally delayed and at -risk infant children. Families
would be involved in the infant children programs and some early evening
use for the facility would be needed and on a quarterly basis, a meeting
would be held with the families.
Mrs. Ortolano asked if the School Board would come before the Commission
with their next major tenant, when the 3 tenants vacated?
Mr. Rubin said yes, it would be appropriate.
Ms. Konzak replied that was her understanding.
Jean Crawford, 5700 Ravenspur, RPV, represented the First Church of Christ
Scientist, Rolling Hills Estates, and said they have been tenants for a
year and a half and the schedule consists of two meetings a week, Sunday
morning and Wednesday evening from 8:00 P.M. till 9:00 P.M.; three business
meetings a year and a few small committee meetings. It includes 20 cars on
Wednesday and about 30 cars on Sunday. She stated there have been no
problems to date.
Dr. Brown aired concern about fund raising events relative to the generation
of traffic.
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Mr. Rubin said Special Events occurring outside the building require a
Sepcial Use Permit; however, if the activity occurs inside the building
a permit is not required.
Ms. Konzak said none of the groups will be having fund raising events.
Mr. McNulty moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mr. Von Hagen
and passed unanimously.
Mr. Von Hagen said his primary concern was for the right to peace and
quiet of the neighbors. The request is for an intense use of the property.
A time limit is necessary for the termination of activities. He thought
10:00 P.M. is too late. Also, he thought there should be some input for
sub -lease control by the Director of Environmental Services prior to a
sub -lease commitment by the School District. He did not think the Com-
mission need to be involved with a monthly schedule. However, he thought
the Planning Commission should be advised of any new use.
Dr. Brown stated the proposed conditions as follows: (1) a time limit,
(2) fund raising control, (3) Director of Environmental Services as approv-
ing agency on Condition #2, (4) sub -leasing control, (5) New Use, and (6)
control number of cars.
Mrs. Ortolano said she thought the problem is that this is a new process
for the City and the School District. Because of the concern of the
neighbors being negatively impacted, she thought the Commission is becoming
too involved in the management of the property especially relative to
special events and sub -leasing: These matters should be referred to the
Director of Environmental Services. She did not think any additional
conditions needed to be imposed.
Mrs. Wike aired concern about controlling the number of cars in the
evening.
No other Commission member shared this concern.
Dr. Brown asked about new uses.
Mr. Rubin stated that any new uses would return to the Commission.
Dr. Brown suggested inserting the words for review and approval by the
Director of Environmental Services, under Condition #2.
Discussion ensued relative to monthly scheduling, and it was agreed, with
Mrs. Ortolano in opposition, that the School District submit a monthly
schedule for review by the Director of Environmental Services.
The consensus of the Commission was that the approving authority be the
Director of Environmental Services relative to sub -leasing. This condition
is an addition.
The question of time limits was discussed.
Mrs. Rose Lachman requested to address the Commission.
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Mrs. Ortolano moved to reopen the public hearing, seconded by Mr. McNulty
and passed unanimously.
Rose Lachman, President of Board of Education, 1636 Dalton Road, Palos
Verdes Estates, said the School Board does everything possible to work
with the community to make the school sites available for all activities
that community groups wish. Use prevents vandalism. She was concerned
about the sub -lease restriction. She referred to the Educational Code
section of the Civic Center Act, and stated the intent of that Act was to
make school facilities available to community groups and that is the right
of the School District and School Board to do so. She believed restrictions
falling within the Civic Center Act would negate the Act and challenge it.
She was concerned about the sub -lease restriction. she re -far -rad t_o-the
W.L the eivic eenter Act, and stated the inte of
ies avaitable tU L;QItULLUIIitY YLUUJJ5
.-,U-x-s the right of the Schooi DistrTct and Schoo± board tv do so. IR 1 re
. Fi the Giv*e Gente-r- -an-t- weuld negate the
e it. She did not think that was appropriate. She asked
the Commission to strike sub -lease from the conditions.
Dr. Brown stated the need for control and asked staff to deter -mine whether
the sub -lease was appropriate.
Mrs. Lachman stated her intent was for the School District to be permitted
to follow through on the Education Code permissive uses of the site.
Mrs. Ortolano dsm9C
4"e/tg�believe that even though the Education Code is
addressed to the School District, that it does not preempt the City from
some measure of control of that property.
Mr. McNulty moved to close the public hearing; seconded by Mr. Von Hagen
and passed unanimously.
Time limits were discussed again and by a 3 to 2 vote, 9:30 p.m. was the
established time.
Mr. McNulty requested 10:00 p.m.
Mrs. Ortolano concurred.
By a revote of 3 to 2, the time limit was then established at 10:00 p.m.
Dr. Brown requested staff to return with a resolution and conditions of
approval.
RECESS 9:30 p.m.
RECONVENED 9:40 p.m.
REDEVELOPMENT PLAN Councilman Hinchliffe was pre -
Change in Pr03ect Area sent at this meeting and gave
Boundaries a summary on the history of
the landslide, the City's action
in attempting to stablize the
area, and the rationale in revising the boundaries of the survey area for
the Redevelopment Area. He presented the downside is the requirement for
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low/moderate income housing; the more undeveloped land picked up as part
of the Redevelopment area, the more requirement for low and moderate
income housing.
Mr. McNulty asked if there were a mechanism of disposing of the agency if
and when a solution exceeded the expectation of the agency.
Councilman Hinchliffe responded yes.
Mrs. Ortolano asked if the project area is expanded to include Seaview and
Portuguese Bend and what is the increase in low and moderate income
re qu i reme nt.
Councilman Hinchliffe said the form as originally adopted with 300 new
units, it would be 45. There are 47 additional sites in the P V Properties
area, City would pick up an additional 15% of 47.
Mrs. Ortolano's understanding was that low and moderate income housing
would not have to be placed within the Redevelopment area.
Councilman Hincliffe said that was not entirely true and deferred to City
Attorney Bill Stausz.
Councilman Hinchliffe said 20% of the revenue generated by the Redevelop-
ment Agency must be earmarked for the development of that low and moderate
housing.
Dr. Brown reiterated that if the City does nothing, there is ultimate
grave jeopardy for the moratorium area and the outlined red area.
Councilman Hinchliffe said the rationale was to pick up some land that
will help the City financially and from the City's perspective, it is an
attempt to equitably designate the area that will benefit the most and at
the same time limit the area so as not to impose stigma.
Including the additional area will financially help the Redevelopment area
to generate the necessary money to deal with the slide and to remove a
division within 2 neighborhoods which has existed because of the Klondike'
Canyon Abatement District.
Mr. Bill Strausz, Attorney for the City of Rancho Palos Verdes, stated
that relative to the low/moderate income housing there are 2 requirements:
(1) of the housing that is developed in the future in the project area,
15% of that housing has to be available at affordable cost to persons who
need low and moderate income housing. The requirement is in the aggregate
and can be met by a good faith effort at a time in the future, (2) of
the tax increment that is allocated to the agency, 1/5 must be used to
increase and improve the City's supply of low and moderate income housing.
It does not have to be in the project area.
Ms. Ortolano asked for clarification of Redevelopment Project Area and
Redevelopment Plan.
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Mr. Strausz said a Redevelopment Project Area is one that has defined
geographic boundaries and Redevelopment plan is a document that provides
for what will be the activities of a Redevelopment Agency within that
Redevelopment Project. The Agency would provide in the Redevelopment Plan
for installation and construction of public improvements to eliminate
whatever conditions exist in the project area which gave rise to its
condition.
The following were present and protested the change in boundaries of the
Project Area for the Redevelopment Plan.
Pro3ect Area for the Redevelopment Plan:
Mr. George Cannady, 4037 Admirable Way, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Ludwig O. Zelt, 4354 Exultant Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Jeff Younggren, 4362 Exultant Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Ms. Betty Runyon, 4319 Palos Verdes Drive South, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Bill Bartz, 3936 Admirable Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Douglas Murray, 4136 Palkos Verdes Drive South, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Joseph McLaren, 3923 Palos Verdes Drive South, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. D. L. McGrew, 4113 Palos Verdes Drive South, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. George B. Potter, 4014 Exultant Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Harry Gibb, 4005 Dauntless Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Ron Wolf, 4040 Admirable Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Jack Jones, 4225 Palos Verdes Drive South, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mr. Michael Unger, 3245 Barkentine Road, Rancho Palos Verdes
David Potter, 4014 Exultant Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes
Lois Larue, 3136 Barkentine Road, Rancho Palos Verdes
The Mayor's concern was a loss of property values and the stigma of a
"blighted area".
The question of noticing by the City arose.
The City Manager, Donald F. Guluzzy also stated there was notification of
the Redevelopment Agency in the City's last 2 issues of Newletter, plus
Notice in P. V. News, Daily Breeze, and the San Pedro News Pilot.
The rationale was:
Mrs. Ortolan supported the pr03ect area as proposed. The persuading fact
was the fact there will be change in law on January 1. Thus, if the area
is included later, the benefits will be greatly reduced.
Mr. Von Hagen supported the proposed Project Area and was not convinced
about a stigma. He thought controlling the slide would benefit everyone.
Mr. McNulty said he supported the revised boundaries.
Mrs. Wike also supported the revised boundaries for similar reasons as
Mrs. Ortolan.
Dr. Brown did not agree with the idea of a stigma and decreased property
value, He disagreed with Council and did not feel it was fair to include
Seaview without including part of Barkentine. He was not convinced of the
Council's rationale.
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Mr. McNulty moved to adopt Resolutin P.C. No. 84-21 as proposed, seconded
by Mr. Von Hagen and passed.
ROLL CALL:
AYES: McNulty
Ortolano
Von Hagen
Wlke
NOES: Brown
NEW BUSINESS It was the consensus of the
Commission to move Grading #655
and Grading 739 to August 28 due
to the late hour.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. McNulty moved to ad3ourn to Friday August 17 at 7:30 a.m., City Hall
Conference Room at 30940 Hawthorne Boulevard, seconded by Mrs. Ortolano at
/2:50 a.m, and passed.
I/Z sfS,t
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