PC MINS 19840612MINUTES
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Meeting
June 12, 1984
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Hesse Park Community
Building at 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman Brown.
PRESENT: Brown, Ortolano, McNulty, Von Hagen, Wike
ABSENT: None
Also present were Director of Environmental Services Sharon W. Hightower,
Associate Planner Alice Angus and Assistant Planner Gary Pedroni.
COMMUNICATIONS None
CONSENT CALENDAR
MINUTES OF Held to the end of the meeting.
MAY 22 & MAY 29, 1984
OLD BUSINESS
PUBLIC HEARING Dr. Brown advised this item is a con-
EASTVIEW AMENDMENT tinued public hearing. Associate
Planner Alice Angus presented the staff
report. She said included in the
Commissioner's packets were changes made at the last meeting regarding
uses of the CG Zone, and use of Sanitation District Site. Since the
last meeting, the merchants have been working on alternate proposals and
those will be considered this evening. The first issue is the appropriate
development standards for the CG Zone. The merchants' new proposal is
for a 101 front setback, 101 side and 201 rear wherever a commercial use
abutts a residential use and no setback abutting commercial uses. Their
proposal also recommends that existing buildings be exempt. Staff has
re-evaluated its original proposal and recommends the following changes:
1) the setback abutting streets be 20' with 5' landscaping along major
state highway arterials, 2) the setback abutting all other streets be
20' with 101 landscaping, and 3) the setback abutting residential be
20' with 10' landscaping along the property line. Included in the packet
is a chart comparing staff's proposal with merchants.
The second issue which should be discussed tonight regards commercial
sign standards. Again, the merchants have submitted a new proposal.
Staff outlined the changes proposed in the latest merchants' proposal.
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Staff was not proposing any changes to its original proposal. Staff
recommended that Planning Commission take public testimony and close the
public hearing, then decide on the appropriate development and sign
standards for the CG Zone. The Planning Commission should adopt the
attached resolution recommending approval of General Plan Amendment #14,
Zone Change #13, and Code Amendment #18.
Mr. Von Hagen asked if staff had a chance to check on setbacks relative
to fire regulations.
Mrs. Angus said that the L. A. County Fire Department downtown office,
which reviews development plans, did confirm that as long as there is no
opening (window or door) a commercial building can go right to the set-
back. Staff still had concern about allowing buildings without any of
the required setbacks. If a building was built two or three feet from
a setback and then an adjacent building wanted to expand, it could end
up with an area of dust a few feet between buildings. Staff feels that
could become a fire hazard because trash could collect back there and
it could not be easily maintained.
Mr. Von Hagen asked about the recommended setbacks; was there a reason
why the landscaping on the sideyard exceeded what was proposed for the
mayor thoroughfare.
Where the right-of-way is 100' wide, staff believed the properties
across the street are more heavily impacted by the street itself rather
than the commercial use and, therefore, the landscaping would not
provide much protection. On the other hand, staff felt 10' of landscap-
ing could afford some protection on the other streets.
Mrs. Ortolano asked staff if 10' was the minimum setback between
buildings for a safety factor.
Mrs. Angus said that 10' is probably a good standard for a minimum.
Mrs. Ortolano asked what the setback requirement is existing now on the
condominium property abutting Jay's Liquor Store.
Mrs. Angus said they currently range from 10' to 181. The City's
setback would be 201.
Mrs. Ortolano noted that since those condominiums were built pre -city
they were in the situation if they burn down they have to rebuild
according to City Code.
Mrs. Ortolano asked if staff had contacted the City Attorney about the
issue of regulating sign copy.
Mrs. Angus said he checked some of the court cases, and is still
checking. Staff felt if it turns out that regulating copy is indeed
unconstitutional or unlawful given recent court cases, it could be
amended, all Sections of the Code.
Mrs. Ortolano asked about parking lot signing. It seems to her that
there should be some flexibility for the Director.
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Mrs. Angus stated that it was always the option if someone proposed
something and staff denied it, they could appeal to the Planning
Commission for consideration and it is not a variance.
Dr. Brown said this was an important point.
Mrs. Ortolano directed attention to wall mounted signs. Regarding
Jay's Liquor Shopping Center, will the wall signs be within Code?
Alice Angus said based on the photos, it looked like most will comply,
but with photos there is no scale. Original records would have to be
found from the County or the signs would have to be measured.
Dr. Brown continued the public hearing.
Margot Chapman, Security Pacific Bank, 333 S. Hope Street, Los Angeles
represented Western Avenue Concerned Merchants, spoke about traffic
enforcement safety. Among other cities, Costa Mesa has recognized that
making signs smaller does not help the traffic situation and they have
included traffic safety as a factor in formulating their five commercial
sign districts. On July lst, a court decision, Eller vs. the City of
Roseville #819378AS, Circuit Court, County of Micone, Michigan stated
that smaller signs could reduce traffic safety because drivers could be
required to divert their attention from the road for greater periods of
time. The second topic was competition. The purpose of the sign
chapter of the Code of the City of Rancho Palos Verdes, page 301, in
addition to disapproving of sign clutter says signs must harmonize with
buildings, the neighborhood and other signs in the area. The third
topic was the uniqueness of the particular area. Even though all the
commercial districts were originally zoned Cl, different areas have
developed in different directions because of many factors. A small
group of homeowners and merchants have been meeting for several months
to work out a compromise. She felt that they have formulated the basis
for a set of laws that will be easy for the homeowners to live with but
still allow the merchants to be clearly competitive with their neighbors
across the street.
Mrs. Ortolano asked how many merchants had been attending the study
sessions.
Mrs. Chapman answered on the average of 7-8 per meeting.
Dr. Brown asked how many homeowners associations did Mrs. Chapman meet
with?
Mrs. Chapman said they met with Burley Ray Johnson, Mrs. Kennard, and
Walt Yeager.
Sam Mednick, 3021 Club Drive, Los Angeles, CA 90064, owner of Harbor
Heights Shopping Center for 25 years, believed that Western Avenue
should not be compared to Golden Cove Center as it is an unrealistic
example. Restrictions across from Harbor Heights Shopping Center did
not follow the same restrictions. It was stated that they are now a
part of Rancho Palos Verdes and need to work together and consider
everyone's needs.
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Burley Ray Johnson, 28115 Montereina Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes directed
attention to the May 22 staff report, page 2. He read paragraph A
relative to sign illumination. As this relates to sign issues, he did
not object to setting different standards on a point by point basis for
Eastview and then allowing, if it is appropriate, commensurate legislation
to be passed, to the bulk of the City. He saw no advantage to be gained
by deferring to some later unspecified point in time when the entire
City could enjoy that better ordinance. He spent the last several weeks
meeting with the Eastview Merchants Association to assist them to gain
a better understanding of some of the issues which he heard expressed
by various homeowners and homeowners associations in the area. There
were some issues not addressed in this particular ordinance, an example
would be noise ordinance control. The ordinance the merchants have
submitted will eliminate flagrantly obnoxious signs in the area but it
does not eliminate all that is on the negative side. He could find no
where in the ordinance anything that talks about sign construction,
material, durability as opposed to the dimensions of the sign. He
thought this was a very important issue to the residents. They didn't
want something that would detract from the aesthetics. He quoted from
the Code; he found no standard that sets a minimum allowable distance
distance between free standing signs, there exists a potential problem
in safety and identification.
Dr. Brown deferred to staff to remark on Mr. Johnson's comments regard-
ing criteria for illumination, noise, sign construction materials, and
free standing signs.
Mrs. Angus said the Code does address illumination; within the first
30 days after a permit has been taken out staff monitors for problems.
Relative to noise, the Code does not specifically deal with noise, but
the City does have a nuisance procedure. Regarding the distance between
free standing signs, the City does not put control on the distance
between signs.
Dr. Brown said he thought the Code addressed placement of signs in a
shopping center with mayor identification sign and other signs for the
businesses.
Mrs. Angus said the Code does say that one sign should not detract from
another.
Mrs. Angus spoke about materials of signs.
Mrs. Ortolano read Mr. Johnson's statement from the May 22, 1984
Minutes. She said she thought the most significant comment was that he
said he had been a member of the Eastview Goals Committee and as far as
he was concerned the Eastview Goals Committee did not understand the
Sign Ordinance.
Mr. Johnson agreed.
Mrs ortolano asked Mr. Johnson if he owned property or had any business
along Western Avenue.
He answered No.
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She asked his occupation.
He answered, a Business Consultant.
She asked if he had any clients or business interest along Western
Avenue.
He said he did not.
Mrs. Ortolano said she asked that question because someone in private
conversation said he was not really representing homeowners but rather
that he had clients. She felt it only fair for him to respond to
that.
Nels Ostrem, 445 W. 7th Street, Suite F, San Pedro, TSO Investments
Corporation said he believed a good deal of the problem was the lack of
actual physical measurement taken on Western Avenue. Mr. Ostrem said
that the 5' landscaping requirement would knock out one complete row of
parking, thereby decreasing the legal usage of retail stores. Regarding
the five foot setback, he asked if the reference to that was from the
City of Los Angeles jurisdiction line or their line. Mr. Ostrem said
that in the Center with Security Pacific Bank, the City/County line goes
through the parking lot.
Robert Keenan, 13031 San Antonio Drive, Suite 209, Norwalk, represented
the Sign Users Council. He answered questions, Dr. Brown asked Mrs.
Chapman. He said persuasive evidence presented in that case said that
smaller signs require traffic safety being reduced by readibility,
visibility, and increase amount of time drivers must divert attention
from the road. The Sign Users Council was not the Western Avenue
Concerned Merchants, but an organization they asked to assist them and
consult with them; therefore, he felt perfectly correct to disagree
with the recommendation from the point meeting from the homeowners and
the retail community. The first is permanent free standing signs at
161. He went back to his original contention that 20" seems to be a
reasonable height. Mr. Keenan asked how many signs this ordinance makes
nonconforming and whom. He thought before the Commission or Council
made a decision, they should understand how much impact it will have on
how many. Mr. Keenan said the last time Dr. Brown said they ought to be
concerned with economics.
Dr. Brown said he could not really agree with that. They have variance
procedures based on finding unique and exceptional circumstances and
that is not economic circumstance.
Mr. Keenan said then a hardship for the business person would not be
his inability to maintain his business.
Dr. Brown said they could not be in the business of economics; that is
not their purview, nor is aesthetics.
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Mr. Keenan contended if the signs come down as staff recommends there
will be heavy economic impact on businesses and, therefore, on the
City.
Dr. Brown said he understood that point and that has been made to the
Planning Commission in the past by those that had to bring their signs
into conformance; for example, Hughes Market.
Mrs. Ortolano made a statement that this Commission considers numerous
factors. She asked Mr. Keenan if the case law he cited was a Michigan
case,
Mr. Keenan said yes, then referred to cases in San Diego, Palm Springs,
City of Los Angeles, and City of Walnut Creek, California.
Mrs. Wike asked how many signs are in the 201 range.
The Commission asked the height of various signs.
Mr. Keenan proceeded to read his list.
Mrs. Ortolano asked for a copy of his list.
Leron Gubler, 1303 Dodson, San Pedro represented the San Pedro Peninsula
Chamber of Commerce. He addressed the issue of the consistency. He
raised the question if it was consistent to apply the same criteria to
the Western Avenue businesses as applied to other businesses in the City.
There are unique differences between the City's shopping areas and
Eastview. Besides being a highway strip commercial district, Western
Avenue caters to a totally different clientele, and are faced with
critical topographical problems unique to the area. He said that the
homeowners association asking to apply the same standards to Eastview
as the rest of the City needs to understand that whether or not you
lower the signs or whether or not you remove them altogether, you are
going to have a highway strip commercial district on Western Avenue; you
will never have a neighborhood center. Along with his remarks, he
submitted an exhibit from Costa Mesa City Sign Ordinance (ordinance was
read). He suggested that it was totally consistent to have different
standards for signs in a City based on the different variables in
question.
Mr. McNulty said that the homeowners eluded to have imposed upon their
pieces of property the same building ordinances over here even though
they live in Eastview.
Mr. McNulty said you should not blame the people for wanting to impose
the same restrictions throughout the City.
Dr. Brown asked if he was suggesting that the topography of Western
Avenue is any more adverse or not adverse than that which exists on
Hawthorne Boulevard.
Mr. Gubler said what he was saying is that a highway commercial strip is
different from a neighborhood shopping center.
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Mavis Northern, 270 S. Bristol Street, Costa Mesa represented the
Western Avenue Concerned Merchants. She referred to the compromise of
the merchants and presented a petition of 535 signatures signed by
customers of the stores representing four plazas. She read the language
of the petition which was prepared by the study group.
Barbara Kennard, 3402 Deluna Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes, commented on
setbacks. She said you are better off not to have setbacks because they
can build up to each other. The other thing that she was concerned with
is the landscaping requirement where there is a mandatory 101. When you
take away from the size of the parking you will be taking away from the
size of the building because one is contingent upon the other. She said
a lot of people will be put out of business if the Commission does not
grandfather a variance, the existing buildings as they are on the site.
Dr. Brown said that you would end up possibly with a smaller structure
in order to provide other things required by the standards, if that were
the standard set. Nobody is denying an economic problem for the merchants.
Dr. Brown commented on variances, he was personally opposed to a blanket
variance because it subverts having development standards in the first
place.
Victoria Marino, merchant and resident, Bloomin Petunias on Western
Avenue, clarified who was on the Study Committee; it included 2 home-
owners, 2 small business representatives, 1 large business, Sign users
Council, Chamber of Commerce representative and 1 representative from
the bank. One of the things that came out of the study was to do a
survey of all the businesses in the Western Avenue area. She distributed
surveys signed on an individual basis by consumers. 71% of those
surveyed answered they found the business by seeing the sign.
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
9:30 P.M.
9:45 P.M.
Dr. Brown moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mr.
McNulty and passed.
Dr. Brown said there were two items to deal with 1) commercial general
development standards and 2) appropriate sign standards. He recommended
dealing with development standards first. Dr. Brown made a motion to
approve the staff's latest recommended CG Standards. Motion died for
lack of second.
Mrs. Ortolano suggested taking the components of the CG Development
Standards and discussing them. The first item to be discussed was
minimum setback abutting the street.
Mr. McNulty had no disagreement with staff's recommendation and moved
that present buildings be exempt from that setback and allow a grandfather
clause that will establish their present footprint and will allow that
present footprint in the event of the destruction of their property.
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Dr. Brown overruled Mr. McNulty and said the Commission can deal with
that issue after some standards are set. It was the consensus of the
Commission to proceed.
The Commission discussed the first item. Mr. McNulty's position was to
exempt these existing properties from these standards when they rebuild.
Dr. Brown asked Alice Angus how much land was still to be developed.
Mrs. Angus said there is no vacant commercial land.
Dr. Brown asked who would it apply to if we grandfather it.
Mr. McNulty said if someone wanted to tear down their building without
being destroyed by fire, then he would be subject to the Development
Code.
Mr. Von Hagen asked to address the issue of grandfathering.
Dr. Brown said that Mr. McNulty's suggestion was to grandfather in all
the existing businesses and in such a fashion that if there is fire or
act of God that the businesses will be allowed to rebuild to the develop-
ment standards that currently exist prior to City's incorporation. That
if a merchant wished to change his business greater than 50% on his own
volition, he would have to follow new standards.
Mrs. Wike was concerned about grandfathering, she wanted a time limit
for rebuilding Mrs. Wike also wanted a 15 year statute of
limitations. 111018y
Mr. Von Hagen did not believe that a statute of limitations could be
done.
Mr. McNulty said the trouble would be there are some newer and some
older buildings. He felt if the ordinance restricts these people in
what they can do in reconstruction, the lack of value of their property
will be evident.
Mr. Von Hagen agreed with Mr. McNulty and embellished on one thing;
these landowners to maintain tenants and be competitive in the market
place will need to build a product that is leasable in the market
place.
Mrs. Ortolano said there is a fairness in the concept of grandfathering
because buildings are such permanent structures. She would be more
comfortable with a 10 year amortization period.
Dr. Brown was not impressed with uniqueness. He believed the standards
that staff recommended are less restrictive than any in the City for
commercial property and said the idea of grandfathering will not work.
He thought it is very unfair to the other merchants in the City.
Mr. Wike could not agree to grandfathering without the time limit. She
was willing to compromise on the time limit.
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Mrs. Ortolano moved that the Commission adopt the commercial standard
for the CG District which was proposed by staff but that they exempt the
property owners of record from those standards for a period of ten years
in the event that the property should be destroyed due to some involuntary
act.
Mrs. Ortolano explained that she was exempting property owners of record,
but if the property should resell that owner would not be exempt.
Dr. Brown asked what happens after ten years.
Mrs. Ortolano said they would be subject to Development Code Standards
adopted this evening.
Mrs. Wike seconded the motion.
Mrs. Wike asked for clarification of property of record.
Mr. Von Hagen said a serious error is being made. The value of any
property in the open market is based on the price a free and willing
buyer is willing and able to pay at the time the sale is consumated.
He still had a problem with the 10 year amortization.
Mr. McNulty thought that a 10 year amortization is a mistake. 25 years
may be an area where a commercial area may be amortized. He disagreed
with trying to limit to owners of record at the time of enactment of the
development criteria.
Dr. Brown said the Commission had failed to take any recognition of the
homeowners request.
Mrs. Ortolano said that any new owner would take it with knowledge, so
that removed the involuntary factor. She was willing to back off from
property owners of record and make it buildings; however, she wanted to
speak very strongly for a ceiling of 10 years.
Dr. Brown said two are in favor and two are opposed.
Mr. Von Hagen disagreed with the statute of limitations. It would have
an economic impact. If there is a statute of limitations, he would
rather go through ordinances making changes line item by line item.
Mrs. Ortolano amended her motion to adopt the Commercial General Plan
Standard which has been proposed by staff but exempt the presently
existing building and owners for a period of 10 years in the event the
building is destroyed due to some involuntary act. Seconded by Mrs. Wike.
ROLL CALL:
AYES: WIKE, ORTOLANO
NOES: McNULTY, VON HAGEN, DR. BROWN
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Motion failed by 3 - 2 vote.
Mr. McNulty repeated the same motion, but changed the period to 25
years. Seconded by Mr. Von Hagen.
Mr. McNulty could not see subjecting new developments to the problems of
not being able to get through their financial obligation.
Mr. Von Hagen wanted to go on record as not favoring the statute of
limitations, but seconded the motion because he did not think he could
achieve anything from his point of view.
Mrs. Wike said she could go along with the motion in that she was not
set regarding the number of years.
Mrs. Ortolano said 25 years is too long for the City not to have control.
ROLL CALL:
AYES: McNULTY, VON HAGEN, WIKE
NOES: BROWN, ORTOLANO
Dr. Brown said that by motion, approved the Commission accepted staff's
recommendations relative to the Commercial General Standards but that
the businesses and owners will be exempt for a period of 25 years for
involuntary destruction of the property greater than 50%.
SIGN STANDARDS
Dr. Brown recommended accepting staff's recommendation. He felt the
recommendation is less stringent than what occurs in the rest of the
City and there will be some sites in Eastview that would require some
variation.
Dr. Brown moved to adopt staff's recommendation relative to the Commercial
General Sign Standard. Motion died for lack of second.
Mr. Wike suggested taking each item step by step and voting on it.
Mr. Von Hagen suggested an amortization period.
Dr. Brown said we have a 5 year amortization program.
Discussion on amount of time for amortization, 7 years, 10 years, 5
years, 2-5 years.
Dr. Brown moved a 5 year amortization period for signs and adopt
staff's proposal relative to proposed Commercial General Sign Standard.
Seconded by Mrs. Ortolano.
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Mr. Von Hagen did not feel the amortization period was long enough, and
he had some problems with the proposed Code.
Mr. McNulty deferred to Mr. Von Hagen's comment and was in agreement.
Mrs. Wike could go along with the 5 year amortization. There were a few
things she would like to see changed.
Dr. Brown asked Mrs. Wike to list those specific areas of concern.
Based on her concerns, the Commission agreed to make the following changes:
121 maximum height for "for sale signs" on undeveloped
property.
Said signs must be setback 51 from the property line.
Parking lot signs limited to two unless otherwise approved by
the Director of Environmental Services.
Mr. Von Hagen referred to illumination. He had no problem with 24 hour
illumination as long as there was no glare reflection or inconvenience
to residential property. He felt in the evening hours with the heavy
traffic on Western Avenue, if the shop owner wanted to leave his light on
for advertising purposes, it is good business, and he did not agree with
staff recommendation that it be on during period of operation only.
Dr. Brown was strongly opposed to illumination of signs when business is
not in operation.
Mrs. Ortolano asked for more study on the issue. She thought
Mr. Von Hagen's point had some validity as well as Dr. Brown's point.
Mr. McNulty suggested leaving it on 1 hour following operation.
Dr. Brown suggested recommending to Council to look at the illumination
of signs. Dr. Brown agreed with standards saying only during hours of
operation or one hour beyond and then asking Council to deal with
it.
The Commission agreed.
Mr. McNulty moved to adopt the recommendation of staff as amended and
that the amortization period be increased for all signs except illegal
signs or non -permit signs to 7 years. Seconded by Mr. Von Hagen.
ROLL CALL:
AYES: McNULTY, VON HAGEN
NOES: BROWN, WIKE, ORTOLANO
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Dr. Brown moved to accept staff recommendation relative to Commercial
General Sign Standards as amended with a 5 year amortization period.
Seconded by Mrs. Ortolano.
ROLL CALL:
AYES: ORTOLANO, WIKE, BROWN
NOES: VON HAGEN, McNULTY
Dr. Brown stated that the amendments will be sent in recommendation form
to City Council and then it is at the discretion of City Council to
decide whether to accept, reject, or amend these recommendations.
Dr. Brown encouraged all those interested to keep in touch with staff as
to when City Council will be dealing with the issue.
Dr. Brown moved to adopt RESOLUTION P. C. 84-17 as amended; seconded by
Mrs. Wike and passed unanimously.
RECESS:
RECONVENE:
11:30 P.M.
11:44 P.M.
Mr. McNulty wanted the record to show that he did not agree with the
amortization.
NEW BUSINESS
VARIANCE 105 A staff report was presented by
Assistant Planner Gary Pedroni. He
PROPERTY OWNER: ABDALIAN stated this was a request to allow
ADDRESS: 30825 MARNE DR. a combination wall/handrail over forty
two inches in height within the required
front setback. He gave a brief history
of the permits as presented in the staff report. He said the combination
wall does not appear on any grading applications and assumes the wall
was built without approval. He referred to Attachment "B" and the
topography was discussed. He stated that approval was given for work
associated with the driveway only (approximately 188 cubic yards). He
said this came to the Department's attention through the Building
Inspector. Investigation revealed that a new retaining wall was being
built. Photos were distributed and discussed.
Mr. Pedroni stated the applicant's wish was construct a pool on the
property. He said the 1983 a Site Plan Review was submitted to place a
pool in the backyard and given approval in November of 1983. Since
then, they have reconsidered their original request to place the pool in
the back yard because estimates have been monetarily prohibitive because
of the existing soil condition and a handicapped resident could not
easily access a pool in the backyard.
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Mr. Pedroni discussed issues of safety and visibility. Based on this
information, staff could not justify all the findings necessary to grant
the request. Thus staff recommended adopting RESOLUTION P. C. NO. 84- ,
denying Variance 104, and require the walls in both the front and
sideyard setbacks be brought into conformance with the Development Code
and the area restored.
Mr. Von Hagen asked for elaboration on viable alternatives.
Mr. Pedroni said to require fill for the front yard, requiring terracing
in the front, with staggered retaining walls; however, there would be no
room for a pool.
Mr. McNulty asked if there is any proof that the wall has been properly
engineered to hold back the street.
Mr. Pedroni answered no, there is no way of knowing the footings.
Mr. Arik Abdalian, 38025 Marne Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes, stated he did
not mean to break the law. His builder built the wall and he assumed he
obeyed the law. He stated he wanted the pool in the front yard and
would do anything and everything possible to do that.
Dr. Brown asked if he was aware that the wall was built without permits.
Mr. Abdalian said he did not know that because during that time his
mother suffered a stroke.
Dr. Brown asked if he was still in touch with the builder and if he was
unwilling to put the pool any place else.
Mr. Abdalian said yes because of cost and that his mother could not
access the pool in the back.
Mr. McNulty aired concern over finding out who built the wall in the
front and the engineering of the wall. He suggested turning it back to
staff to find these answers.
Adelaida Abdalian, 30825 Marne Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes, deferred to
her brother, Arik Abdalian, and added nothing more.
Dr. Brown asked if she was familiar with the builder.
She said she did not know where he is now and would have to check.
Mr. & Mrs. Fred Brown, 30904 Marne Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes were
called but had left.
Mrs. Ann Richardson, 30823 Cartier Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes was in
favor of granting Variance 105. She said Mr. Abdalian was not aware of
not having permits. She said the only level place is in the front yard.
She asked the Commission to try to help them.
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Dr. Brown spoke about liability on the City's part.
Mr. McNulty moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mr. Von Hagen
and passed.
Mr. McNulty moved to table the item until the applicants could work with
staff on alternative solutions, seconded, and passed.
The applicants were given 60 days to get back to staff.
TENTATIVE PARCEL The staff report was presented by
MAP 8666 Assistant Planner Dino Putrino. He
directed attention to the maps,
PROPERTY OWNER: GABRIC discussed the configuration of the
ADDRESS: 3157 CROWNVIEW DR. lots, and the slope analysis.
Mr. Putrino said it is staff's opinion that future development of Lot 2
would require Planning Commission review due to the need to vary from
the Development Code in order to develop the lot.
Staff believes that since Lot 2 has some problem areas, the subdivision
should be redesigned or the number of proposed lots be reduced in order
to accommodate existing buildable areas. Staff recommended adopting
RESOLUTION P. C. 84- denying Tentative Parcel Map 8666 since the site
is not physically suitable to accommodate three lots in terms of design
and potential uses as proposed.
Mr. McNulty asked if the applicant has submitted a footprint for the
three lots.
Mr. Putrino said no because he did not think the applicant intended to
build on Lot 1 and 2.
Dr. Brown stated that with the parcel map process the Planning Commission
must be assured the requirements of setbacks, size, etc are met and
that there are buildable lots.
Dr. Brown opened the public hearing.
George S. Gabric, 3157 Crownview Drive, Rancho Palos Verdes said this
application has been around for three years. He purchased the property
from Dan Melilo who provided him with blueprints and map showing that he
had petitioned the City to abandon the Palos Verdes Drive East right-of-
way. Mr. Gabric said it was Mr. Melilo's understanding that staff had
accepted the lot boundaries. He said he worked with Ms. Lavitt of the
staff and Mr. Melilo. He said Ms. Lavitt assured him it was buildable,
so he took it from there. He gave a brief history of events. Orginally
4 lots were proposed, but he revised it to 3 lots and submitted a new
petition in 1983. It was only last Thursday he was told it was not
proper. He said there has been a lot of time and expense involved.
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Mr. Dale Hinkle, 343 Temple Avenue, Long Beach addressed the Commission
as a geotechnical specialist.. He believed it would be reasonable to
allow 2000 square foot houses on the property with minimum grading.
Discussion continued relative to grading and consideration of foundations
vs. footing excavation.
Mr. Edwin M. Saiki (Westco Engineering) 4431 W. Rosecrans Avenue,
Suite 400 said he previously worked in the County Engineer's Office.
He had worked with Ms. Lavitt and reviewed the feasibility of developing
three lots and Ms. Lavitt never made issue about the feasibility.
Mr. Putrino said the County has its criteria and the City its and
perhaps the criteria is different. He referred to the City of Rancho
Palos Verdes Development Code regarding grading.
Mr. Stuart Scudder, 712 Bluira, Redondo Beach, Attorney for the applicant,
gave a brief history of events and discussed no required setbacks for
the driveway and completion of the application in September 1983.
Mr. Von Hagen moved to close the public hearing, seconded by Mrs Wike,
and passed.
Dr. Brown moved to adopt RESOLUTION P. C. 84-18 denying Tentative Parcel
Map 8666 since the site is not physically suitable to accommodate three
lots in terms of design and potential uses as proposed. Seconded by
Mrs. Wike and passed unanimously.
CUP 39 -
REVISION "A"
TRACT 31714
APPLICANT: URBAN WEST
COMMUNITIES
ADDRESS: 3030 SOUTH BUNDY DR.
LOS ANGELES 90066
HOUSING ELEMENT REVIEW
The Planning Commission did not wish to
have a staff report by Steve Rubin as
the hour was late and it was submitted
in their packets and had been read.
Dr. Brown moved to adopt RESOLUTION
P.C. 84-19 approving Conditional Use
Permit 39, Revision "A", amending the
approved grading plan for lots 14, 16
16, and 19, Tract 31714, seconded by
Mrs. Ortolano and passed unanimously.
Mrs. Ortolano asked staff what RJA
and RHAM stands for. Staff responded.
The Planning Commission unanimously approved the staff recommendation
to recommend that the City Council find that a revision to the Housing
Element is not necessary based on this review.
ADJOURNMENT
2:00 A.M.
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