PC MINS 198204130
M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Meeting
April 13, 1982
The meeting was called to order at 7:31 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman Hughes.
PRESENT: Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
LATE ARRIVAL: Brown
ABSENT: Baer
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower, Associate Planner
Alice Bergquist Angus, and Assistant Planner Jonathon Shepherd.
CONSENT CALENDAR On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded
by Mr. McTaggart, the Consent Calendar
was unanimously passed, thereby approv-
ing A) the minutes of the meeting of March 23, 1982, as presented, and B)
a one-year time extension for Conditional Use Permit No. 59 (Tract 37818).
Dr. Brown arrived at 7:32 p.m.
SIGN PERMIT NO. 141 Mr. Shepherd said this item had been
6118 Palos Verdes Drive South continued at the last meeting to enable
Landowner: Brown staff and the applicant to develop a
Applicant: Forster compromise sign proposal that comes
closer to the Code requirements. He
said two proposals have been developed
but not a compromise proposal. In proposal #1 staff proposed a monument
sign be placed in the northeast corner of the subject property with a sign
face 5 feet high and 7 feet long. Staff proposed that the sign be placed
as an extension of the existing planter located in the front of the property
and that the total height of the sign be a maximum of 7 feet above grade.
In proposal #2 the applicant proposed a monument sign 9 feet high and lumin-
ated. He said the applicant proposed shifting the 5 x 7 foot sign face so
that the sign face would be 7 feet high and 5 feet long. The sign was pro-
posed to be placed as an extension of the existing planter, giving the sign
a total height of 9 feet. He said the applicant was concerned about the
limited parking area and did not wish to lose the parking space in front of
the sign. Staff -recommended approval of proposal #1, allowing a permanent
free-standing monument sign of 7 feet in height to be placed in the north-
east corner of the property.
W. J. Brown, 2860 Via De La Guerra, Palos Verdes Estates, said their pro-
posal was to up -end the sign and turn it the other way as a compromise,
instead of using a pedestal. He presented photographs to the Commission
showing the effect of the parking on each of the sign proposals. He said
there were only 7 parking spaces available and that the loss of one parking
space would affect them significantly.
In response to Commission questions, Mr. Brown said the function of the sign
is to list three businesses. He said he agreed with staff in that he also
preferred the appearance of a horizontal sign. He said, however, that
roughly one-third of the sign would be blocked with a car parked there.
Carmen Forster, 203 Seascape Road, said illumination of the sign during day-
light hours was necessary because of the fog conditions in the area. She
felt the sign was more aesthetically pleasing in a vertical position with
the address at the top.
0
On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded by
the Commission approved sign proposal #1,
granting a free-standing monument sign 7
Permit No. 141.
11
Dr. Brown, and unanimously carried,
as recommended by staff, thereby
feet in height, as part of Sign
Mr. Hughes said there has been a long history since the City's incorporation
of trying to bring the signing of the City under control and, in an effort
to be consistent, the Commission found that in this case the sign ordinance
was applicable. He advised of the right to appeal this decision to the
City Council within fifteen calendar days.
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 14425 Ms. Angus said ordinance No. 143U
Portuguese Bend Club (portion of) allows for the processing and approval
Landowner: Palos Verdes Properties of parcel maps for properties within -
Applicant: Sikand Engineering the Moratorium Area that contain resi-
dential structures that are already
completed and occupied subject to com-
pliance with the Moratorium Ordinance. She said this request was to subdi-
vide a 115.7+ acre site into three parcels and she discussed the proposed
parcels. She said this application does not propose any further improvements
(building or grading) on the site. Staff recommended approval of the tenta-
tive parcel map subject to the conditions contained in Exhibit "A" of the
draft resolution. She noted that although a letter was received from the
County Engineer's office stating that they would not approve the map because
of geologic problems, the City Attorney's office indicated that the letter
did not constitute a problem since no development was proposed and conditions
prohibit it.
John McCarthy, 105 Spindrift Drive, representing the Portuguese Bend lease-
holders, said they had tried for a long time to subdivide the property.
Monte Brower, representing Palos Verdes Properties, questioned the park fee
which was one of the conditions of approval.
Director Hightower explained that the park fee was based on one possible
lot to be developed and that if further development in the future is possi-
ble it would be recalculated for the appropriate number of lots.
Ken Marks, Sikand Engineering, said the new Map Act allows for final map
approval within two years but the conditions state one year.
Director Hightower said although the Map Act allows that provision, the
City only allows for one year approvals but that extensions were available.
Dr. Brown proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, to adopt Resolution
No. 82-7, thereby approving Tentative Parcel Map No. 14425, subject to the
conditions of Exhibit "A".
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Brown, -ff±nch±i:ff-L—_, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: Baer
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Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal this decision to the City Council
within fifteen calendar days.
MISCELLANEOUS HEARING Mr. Shepherd reviewed the background of
53 Avenida Corona this project, saying plans were approved
Landowner/Applicant: Izmirian on June 16, 1980 for a room addition and
that said plans showed a distance of 130
feet from the addition to the eastern
property line. Subsequent to that approval, the City received documents from
the neighbor including a survey which showed the actual eastern property line
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to be 12 to 14 feet from the addition. He said a stop work order was issued
and the landowner was directed to apply for a variance. He said although at
that time the structure was completed, the permit was not finalized. He
said the applicant is challenging staff's determination that -the eastern
property line is his front property line. He said the subject property is
a flag lot and access is taken from Avenida Corona. He read the applicable
Code section' -and said staff has determined that the eastern property line
most nearly parallels Avenida Corona. Staff recommended that the eastern
property line be determined as the front property line and that the applicant
be directed to file for a variance.
Thomas Izmirian, 53 Avenida Corona, said his lot fit not only the definition
of a flag lot but also that of an interior lot and a hillside lot. He re-
viewed the drawing on display and noted that the addition was 2.6 feet by
21 feet long. He said La Vista Verde runs all along what he considers to
be the front of his property and that people can walk from that street onto
his property even though his driveway goes down to Avenida Corona. He said
for 16 years he was taking care of half of the hill thinking that it was his
property and that his septic tank is located in that area.
Mr. McTaggart expressed concern about the septic tank location and Mr. Hughes
said that the record should reflect that it has been indicated that the sep-
tic tank for the subject lot is located on the adjacent lot.
In response to Commission questions, Mr. Shepherd said the required rear
yard setback is 15 feet and that although it would not meet that requirement,
it could be handled with a minor exception permit since it is only about one
foot short of that requirement.
Mr. McTaggart said normally with a flag lot the City considers the adjacent
street from which access is gained as the front of the property. He said
there was no question about whether this is a flag lot, but that it was
unusual in that it is a flag lot with potential access from another street.
In view of the fact that the Code is a little ambiguous and does not state
that the City must determine the means of access as the adjacent road in
determining front property lines, he felt it could be argued that the site
most nearly parallels the street where there is no access. He said the rear
yard setback could then be handled with a minor exception permit and would
not need a variance.
The other Commissioners concurred.
Mr. Hinchliffe proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, to establish
that the front property line of the subject residence parallels La Vista
Verde as opposed to Avenida Corona. The Commission directed that the rear
yard setback be dealt with through a minor exception permit process.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: Baer
Mr. Hughes advised the applicant about the minor exception permit process
in order to clear up the stop work order and further advised of the fifteen
day appeal period.
Mr. McTaggart was concerned about the septic tank situation and felt that
the City had an obligation for the health and safety of the residents and
the applicant and should recommend to the applicant that he pursue either
acquisition of the property or moving the septic tank onto his property.
Mr. Hughes advised the applicant of the fact that he had a potential prob-
lem with the location of his septic tank on the adjacent property which he
may want to look at through title research or other documents related to
the property and perhaps consult an attorney.
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0, 0
FIRE RESISTANT ROOF STUDY Mr. Shepherd said at its meeting of
March 2 the City Council amended and
adopted alternative #2 and sent the
issue back to staff and the Commission for further study. He said the items
for discussion this evening were the types of roofing materials available,
deterioration of treated roofs, and fire statistics on the Peninsula. He
said various samples of roofing materials were available this evening and
that Assistant Fire Chief Raymond Brunstrom would present a slide show on
roof fires.
Mr. McTaggart knew of someone who invested in pressure -treated shakes and
that the Fire Department has tried unsuccessfully six times to ignite sam-
ples of the material.
Assistant Fire Chief Raymond Brunstrom presented a slide show and distributed
written materials to the Commission. In response to Commission questions,
he said the underwriters have taken various treatments and weather -tested
them for up to ten years. He said the testing indicates that most of the
chemical treatments would last for the life of the shingle. He said class C
is for light exposure, class B is for moderate exposure, and class A is more
what they would refer to as fire resistant roofing. He said the severity
is less in this area than in Duarte, for example, where wind conditions are
double what they are here. He said there were products available to treat
existing roofs but that none of those products have passed the class C level.
He said the shingles are the same with classes B and C, that it is only the
roofing assembly that changes the rating. He said there were areas within
the City that are different in terms of need, that the probability of fire
in the canyon areas is greater. He said 10 to 20 percent of residential
fires with structural damage is due to roofing. He said this City is
probably lower than most cities because fireworks are prohibited. He felt
imposing laws to protect people from fire was just as appropriate as install-
ing traffic signals at busy intersections. He said the cedar industry ag-
gressively lobbies governmental agencies, but that there were several
materials available that give the same appearance as cedar shingles. He
said solid sheeting underneath improves fire protection. He said the big-
gest problem is with direct fire, and that roofing can receive burning
embers coming from fires quite a distance away. With a garage fire, he said
it takes about 10 minutes for the fire to go through the roof and then move
on to the rest of the house. He recommended class B roofing throughout the
City with perhaps class C for reroofing. With regard to fire zones for re-
roofing, he said he personally did not discriminate because although there
is more likelihood of a fire in the canyon area, once the - fire -is going,
wood sh, ngle 'rd6f s anywhere are -su8cept_ 1-bl—e-to ignition. He saidthere are
approximately five structural fires per month in this City, and probably one
with major structural damage. He said insurance companies make no differen-
tial in this area regardless of the type of roofing. Re inspecting roofs,
he said the only way to tell whether it is a treated or untreated shingle
is to take it in for a chemical test, that it could not be determined by
looking at it.
Mr. Shepherd referred to the various samples of roofing on display and the
Commission inspected them.
In response to Commission questions, Director Hightower said staff did not
have a recommendation at this time. Re fire zones, she said it might not
be too difficult to delineate the areas, that the biggest difficulties
would arise later in administering the Code.
Mr. Hinchliffe felt a standard rather than variable roofing requirement
would be more effective in informing the roofing industry of the City's
Codes.
Mr. McTaggart noted that although all roofing contractors know a permit is
required, reroofing is often done without a permit.
Mr. Hughes wondered if the City could justify the initial cost, in terms of
economics, for even a class C rating.
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It was the consensus of the Commission that staff should look at class B
rating for roofing of all new construction, class C rating for reroofing
throughout the City with class B rating for reroofing in designated fire
hazard areas. Staff was to determine if those hazard areas could be desig-
nated and if a program like that could be administered.
STAFF REPORTS Director Hightower said staff's report
on antennae went to the City Council
and the recommendations were approved
for study, with emphasis on safety and design. She said one of the problems
is that there is nothing in the City's current ordinance that deals with the
dishes (earth stations).
Mr. Hughes noted an error on page 2 of.the report in that it should read
"non -ionized" instead of "ionized" radiation.
COMMISSION REPORTS Mr. Hughes noted that he would probably
not be able to attend the next meeting.
Mr. McTaggart was designated as Acting
Chairman for that meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
At 10:45 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Tuesday,
April 27, 1982, at 7:30 p.m.
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