PC MINS 19811208M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Pleetinq
December 8, 1981
The meeting was called to order at 7:38 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman Hughes.
PRESENT: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
ABSENT: None
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower and Associate Plan-
ner Sandra Massa Lavitt.
CONSENT CALENDAR Mr. Hughes pulled the two tentative
parcel maps from the Consent Calendar
so that the Commission could vote on
the individual resolutions and conditions.
On motion of Mr. McTaggart, seconded by Dr. Brown, the Commission unanimously
oassed the Consent Calendar, as amended, thereby approving the minutes of the
meeting of November 24, 1981, as presented.
'14r. Hinchliffe proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to adopt Resolution
No. 81-60, thereby approving Tentative Parcel Map No. 14537, subject to the
conditions of Exhibit "A".
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal this decision to the Citv Council
within fifteen calendar days.
Mr. Hinchliffe proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to adopt Resolution
No. 81-61, thereby an-oroving Tentative Parcel Map No. 14538, subject to the
conditions of Exhibit "A".
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal this decision to the City Council
within fifteen calendar days.
HEIGHT VARIATION NO. 191 APPEAL Ms. Lavitt said this item was tabled
30014 Via Victoria at the last meeting for a more complete
Appellant/Landowner: Ezell roof design and. to include a proposal
for a hip roof on the new addition.
She said the applicant had provided
staff with drawings that indicate both a hip and gable style roof design.
She said with a hip roof at the front a greater amount of the horizon would
be available for view but felt that the amount of additional view was not
significant. Staff recommended denial of the appeal.
Gene Ezell, 30014 Via Victoria, referred to the drawings which were on dis-
play. He said they had previously proposed a cable roof design because it
would be just bringing the existing roof forward. He said the hip roof now
proposed was less obtrusive.
Mr. McTaggart felt the hip roof would reduce the impact and, therefore, was
the preferable design.
Dr. Brown asked if a resolution had been prepared.
Ms. Lavitt said a resolution was prepared for approval of the project with
a gable roof and that staff would prepare a resolution for the next meeting
if the Commission chooses the hip roof design.
It was the consensus of the Commission that a hip roof was preferable.
Mr. McTaggart proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to grant the appeal
for Height Variation No. 191 with the findings that the project has been
designed in such a manner as to reduce the impact and to require a hip roof
as proposed this evening, subject to Commission review of the resolution
which staff was directed to prepare.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: Baer
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes said the Commission action was to approve the appeal of Height
Variation No. 191, thereby approving the project, and he advised of the
right to appeal this decision to the City Council within fifteen calendar
days.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 37885 Ms. Lavitt reviewed the background of
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 79 this request. She said Dr. Ehlig of
Forrestal Drive northwest of Robert Stone and Associates had re -
Pirate Drive viewed all of the geologic reports and
Landowner: Palos Verdes Properties that he was of the opinion that develop -
Applicant: Sikand Engineering ment of this site would not affect the
Klondike Canyon activity. She said the
site was a total of 163 acres of which
47 acres were buildable and that the proposed development was located on 15
acres at the most western portion of the site. She said the proposed lot
sizes varied from 6,500 to 18,000 square feet. She said the total project
density would closely approximate the tracts surrounding the site. She re-
viewed the grading and slope characteristics. She said conditions must be
included in the CC&Rs which address the maintenance of the debris channel
and fence. She reviewed the equestrian trail and the traffic and street
design. Staff recommended that the Commission open the public hearing, take
testimony, and discuss the issues which pertain to the tract.
In response to Commission questions, Ms. Lavitt said the road had been
shifted about 20-30 feet more towards the south in order to create a deeper
debris basin.
Director Hightower asked that Dr. Ehlig summarize the report that was pre-
pared by him for the City.
Dr. Perry Ehlig, 1560 Via Del Rey, South Pasadena, said under contract to
the City he did a geology review of the geological reports prepared by the
applicant's geoloqist. He felt it had been demonstrated that the Klondike
Canyon landslide did not extend into the area of the site and that the pro-
posed development would not have an effect on that landslide. In his
opinion the geologic conditions of the site were satisfactory for the pro-
posed development. He recommended the task of evaluating measures designed
to: A) stabilize the mudflow and earthflow deposits underlying the proposed
development; B) correct the roadway., sidewalk and cut slope in the area
where Forrestal Drive is deformed; and C) eliminate the rockfall hazard
from the quarry face north of Forrestal Drive all be assigned to the County.
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In response to Commission questions, Dr. Ehlig said the bedding Planes come
to the surface downslope of this project site and that the project would
have no impact provided that no water is allowed to drain from the project
site into the slide area. He said the standard procedure for buttressing
is to remove the earth and recompact it.
Public hearing was opened.
Ken Marks, Sikand Engineering, discussed the exhibits that they prepared
and answered questions of the Commission. He said they checked with the
State Highway Department about the construction of debris fences, that he
was sure they had some quantitative data on the matter. He said cutting
off the face of the cliff would require a lot of export and he was not sure
what would be required to get the rock out. He said they have done borings
in the area of the knoll and know that the rock there is fractured but have
not done testing in the other area. He discussed the buttressing and indi-
cated on the map where it would go. He said the original plan was for
terraced lots, that this plan was a more natural situation.
Mark Bryant, Converse Ward Davis Dixon, engineering geologist, said the
buttress would be about 120 feet wide with a 68-foot'maximum depth. He
said there were numerous precautions taken. In response to Commission
questions, he said the final grades would dictate the exact size of the
buttress. He described the process and said it would precede construction
on the site. He said the buttress construction would take about two to
three months. He said concrete caissons would not be a satisfactory solu-
tion. He said the work could probably be done with six scrapers and a
couple bulldozers. He said the bedrock would be removed with conventional
heavy earth moving equipment.
Max Thomas, 3849 Pirate Drive, said he presumed that the development would
have underground utilities and asked if the poles along Forrestal Drive
would be removed. Speaking for the Palos Verdes South Homeowners Associa-
tion, he said that was one request of the Association.
Irwin Gebroa, 4230 Dauntless Drive, expressed concern about geology. He
felt any building above the Seaview area would magnify the problems of that
area because they would be redistributing the earth and creating pressure.
He said he was not opposed to development as he felt it would increase the
value of his home, but because of the instability in the area he felt
there should not be any more development.
Beverly Callahan, 4304 Exultant Drive, felt until the limits of the Klondike
Canyon landslide are well defined and the slide is stabilized that nothing
should be developed in the immediate adjacent area.
Henri de la Garrigue, 4024 Stalwart Drive, had no objection to the subdivi-
sion but felt Palos Verdes Drive South should be widened.
Tom Appleby, 4351 Dauntless Drive, was concerned about the geology which he
said was an inexact science. He was concerned about how the earth would be
moved and if blasting would be prohibited, and requested that it be so. He
also expressed concern about the drainage. He said there was a lot of
supposition in this and felt it was potentially a very dangerous situation
in Seaview.
Jeanne Crose, 3913 Admirable Drive, asked if there would be restrictions in
terms of lot size and swimming pools. She felt swimming pools created a
substantial concentration of weight which could be a factor in terms of
earth movement. She was also concerned about the pools leaking. She was
concerned about the exactness of any geological study and said the exact
parameters of the slide were difficult to determine. She also expressed
concern about the traffic increase.
Michael Burke, 3642 Vigilance Drive, president of the Palos Verdes South
Homeowners Association, asked about Forrestal Drive, zoning of the site,
lot size requirements, compatibility with the surrounding area, and grading.
He said they would feel much safer if there was no blasting and asked if
he could have a copy of the plot plan.
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Monte Brower, representing Palos Verdes Properties, said he would provide a
copy of the plot plan.
Roberta Lopez, 32200 Valor Place, was concerned about the effects of the
compacting machine and the traffic along Palos Verdes Drive South. She said
there were drainage swales all along the bank, along the school property,
and that they needed to be maintained.
Ken Marks addressed some of the questions that had been brought up during
the public testimony. He said this was a tentative map and that they were
looking at alternatives. He said the project site was in excess of 160
acres. He said the area of Forrestal Drive that would be raised is the
portion beyond the extension of the existing road. He said there was noth-
ing that indicated a need for blasting and they felt the area could be
graded with conventional earth moving equipment. He discussed the drainage
proposals. He said the development would decrease the water going into
Klondike Canyon. He said they have storm drain plans from the County and
have determined their adequacy. He explained the method of compaction.
RECESS At 9:54 p.m. a brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 10:05 p.m.
with the same members present.
On motion of Dr. Brown, seconded by Dr. Baer, and unanimously carried, the
public hearing was continued.
In response to Commission questions, Dr. Ehlig said there was a great deal
more geological data now than there was one year ago. He discussed the
slide and said they have enough control now to project through and predict
where it would be. He said caissons would not work in this case because it
would flow around them. He said the weight of a filled swimming pool was
considerably less than the weight of the dirt which was removed to put the
pool in.
Dr. Brown felt the Commission should have the hydrology study and informa-
tion pertaining to the question of lawn and slope watering. He felt the
hydrology and drainage were extraordinarily important issues in dealing
with the project. He felt a common recreational facility would be a nice
feature to the project.
Mr. McTaggart was concerned about the buttressing and the time schedule
involved.
Dr. Baer was concerned about the traffic study and improving the ocean
views from the proposed lots.
Mr. Hinchliffe felt the Commission needed more information on hydrology and
more definitive data on actual lot sizes. He did not feel they should allow
more fill in order to create additional views. He said the utility poles
should be addressed as well as the buttress and time schedule, etc. He
did not feel that the development needed its own recreational facility due
to its adjacency to a school site.
Mr. McTaggart was also concerned with the number of cul-de-sacs proposed
and with splitting up the lots and the setbacks.
Mr. Hughes summarized the Commission's concerns. Re hydrology, he said the
Commission wished to see the report and was interested specifically in the
drainage plan, landscaping concerns, lawn watering, and the effects of
residential development on the hydrology, particularly with respect to
Klondike Canyon. Re grading, the Commission was concerned with the grading
plan, the time involved, how it would be scheduled, particularly since
during rains it is vulnerable to additional water seepage. He said he
would like to see some consideration given to a recreational facility as
the development is somewhat isolated. He said there was also the question
of the City's liability should this development in fact cause acceleration
of the ad3acent landslide.
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Director Hightower said the risk was the same as in any other area. In
response to further questions by Mr. Hughes, Director Hightower said there
would be no significant increase in traffic and that the streets were not
loaded anywhere near capacity.
Mr. Hughes said the Commission wished to ensure use of the existing eques-
trian trail. Re Dr. Baer's concern about views he felt there should be
more information than just one section. He said the Commission would like
some alternate approaches for handling the streets and would like a feel
for what the lot sizes would be. He said other areas that should be ex-
plored are the alternatives and costs for dealing with the face of the
quarry slope and the fence.
In response to a question by Mr. Hughes, Monte Brower said the plan was
for a lot sale program.
Mr. Hughes advised that there would be no further notification on the
project and that it was the responsibility of interested parties to con-
tact the City re future meetings on the project.
STAFF REPORTS Director Hightower noted that there
were no items scheduled for the meet -
of December 22, 1981 and suggested
that the Commission not meet at that time. She also discussed the requested
joint meeting with the Rolling Hills Estates Planning Commission sometime in
January.
It was the consensus of the Commission to not schedule any items for its
December 22, 1981 agenda and to cancel the meeting.
It was further the consensus of the Commission to meet with the Rolling
Hills Estates Planning Commission on Thursday, January 21, 1982, at 7:30
p.m. at Rolling Hills Estates City Hall.
COMMISSION REPORTS Mr. Hughes said the City Council ap-
proved the Burrell tract map with one
change and sent the conditional use
permit back to the Commission for some kind of setbacks which would pro-
vide view corridors between the homes.
ADJOURNMENT
At 11:27 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Tuesday,
December 22, 1981, at 7:30 p.m.
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