PC MINS 19810623� F/
MINUTES (Jq)
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Meeting
June 23, 1981
The meeting was called to order at 7:32 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman Hughes.
PRESENT: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
ABSENT: None
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower, Associate Planner
Richard Thompson, and Assistant Planner Sandra Massa Lavitt.
CONSENT CALENDAR At the request of Mr. Hinchliffe, the
minutes of the meeting of June 9, 1981
were removed from the Consent Calendar
to be discussed as the last item under New Business.
On motion of Dr. Brown, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, the Consent Calendar as
amended was unanimously passed, thereby approving the following: 1) minutes
of the meeting of May 26, 1981; 2) minutes of the meeting of June 15, 1981;
3) time extension for Conditional Use Permit No. 27; 4) amendment to Condi-
tional Use Permit No. 69; and 5) Grading Application No. 507.
VARIANCE NO. 67 Director Hightower said the Commission
approved this item in concept at its
last meeting. She said staff prepared
the appropriate resolution approving the project for Commission action this
evening. She referred to Exhibit "A" which was distributed to the Commis-
sion tonight.
Dr. Brown asked about the remainder of the fence/wall being cut to 42 inches.
Director Hightower said the applicant said he would do that and the City will
enforce it.
Mr. Hughes noted that the condition of Exhibit "A" dealt with the lighting
concern.
Mr. Hinchliffe proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to adopt Resolution
No. 81-46, thereby approving Variance No. 67 based on the findings stated in
the resolution and sub3ect to the condition of Exhibit "A".
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to anneal this decision to the City Council
within fifteen (15) calendar days.
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 14369
VARIANCE NO. 68
Silver Spur & Silver Spur
Applicant/Landowner: S. P. Devco
concerns were also noted in the
Ms. Lavitt said the Commission had con-
tinued the public hearing on this item
at its May 26 meeting, at which time the
Commission requested additional infor-
mation on the issues noted in the staff
report. She said responses to those
staff report. She said attached to the staff
report were two sections of the Subdivision Map Act that referred to the
denial of a map and required a parcel map for the proposal. Staff recom-
mended that- the Commission approve the -P'_4r-69i__mp�p. and variance _with�ff - he
combination of lots 5 and76 and a restricted --U��-s�e7no—te:-i�l—zi�ed - on allnatural
created slopes greater than 35 percent as shown on the -approved tenta-
tive plan.
Public hearing was opened. No one was present to speak.
On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded by Dr. Brown, and unanimously carried,
the public hearing was closed.
In response to questions by Mr. Hinchliffe, Ms. Lavitt said the applicant
was dividing the site to sell off one or two parcels. She said Matt
Brunning indicated at the last meeting that he was opposed to combining lots
5 and 6. She noted that Ray Quigley had just arrived at the meeting.
Mr. Hughes asked Mr. Quigley if he wished to speak.
Raymond Quigley, 304 Te3on Place, Palos Verdes Estates, said they would
rather not have lots 5 and 6 combined because it would make it difficult to
finance the building for lot 5. He said the terminology of "restricted use"
bothered him because at some time in the future it may become possible to
develop that land, although there were no plans for development now.
Dr. Brown said if in the future it was demonstrated that the area was
appropriate for devblopment, there was'a procedure to take care of it.
I
Director Hightower said there probably was a procedure but she could not give
a positive answer at this time.
Mr. McTaggart said an option would be for the applicant to do the remedial
geological work on lot 6 now as the Commission would prefer. He said if
the applicant did not want to do that then combining the lots seemed
to be the most reasonable alternative to allow the development to proceed.
Mr. Quigley said their time frame was such that it would be difficult to
delay the project.
Jerry Moss, Rolling Hills Estates, said they had a prospective tenant for
lot 5 and that it was a problem getting financing. He said the financial
institutions did not want the obligation or the risk, that they did not like
to deal with the unknown.
Mr. PIcTaggart proposed a motion to deny the project. The motion died for
lack of a second.
Mr. McTaggart was uncomfortable with combining the lots because it would
restrict financing for lot 5 and, therefore, the lot could sit and nothing
would be done to stabilize it. He was concerned about the effect on that
area when the surrounding areas are developed.
Mr. Hinchliffe expressed similar concerns and wondered if there was some
mechanism to ensure against that.
Director Hightower said there was a grading plan approved already for this
site and that the parcel map did not affect that.
Mr. Thompson said the conditional use permit was approved for the entire
site. He said whether or not there are lot lines, the situation would be
the same.
Dr. Brown said the County recommended denial because of the creation of
lot 6 and that the Subdivision Map Act did not permitthecreation of a
lot of that type. He said combining�_the-lo.ts was the onlly alternative.
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Mr. Hinchliffe proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to adopt Resolu-
tion No. 81-47, thereby approving Tentative Parcel Map No. 14369 based on
the findings as stated in the resolution and subject to the conditions of
Exhibit "A".
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Dr.. Brown proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. Hinchliffe, to adopt Resolu-
tion No. 81-48, thereby approving Variance No. 68 based on the findings
as stated in the resolution.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES. Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal both actions to the City Council
within fifteen ('15) calendar days.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 37962 Mr. Thompson said the Commission first
CONDITIONAL USE PEP11IT NO. 66 reviewed this project on June 9 and at
Northerly of Barkentine Road that time requested additional informa-
Landowner: Palos Verdes Properties tion and continued the public hearing.
Applicant: Sikand Engineering He said staff contacted Dr. Ehlig, City
Geologist, and he indicated that addi-
tional information would be needed in
order to complete a thorough evaluation of the geologic impacts associated
with the site, which would take two to three months to complete. He said
the applicant submitted a revised tentative map in response to concerns
raised during the public hearing but that it was submitted too late for
staff to have adequate time for evaluation. He said the Commission received
copies of the revision in the agenda packets. He referred to the letter
from the applicant requesting that the Commission continue this item and
review the project and geology separately. Staff was of the opinion that
geology concerns should be resolved prior to considering further design
alternatives, because geologic factors have an influence on the ultimate
design of any project. ._Staff recomme_ii-d d that the -Commission deny the cgndi-
tional use permit and recommend to the City Council denial of the tentative
tract map.
In response to questions by Mr. Hinchliffe, Mr. Thompson said the applicant
has always known that this was a problem site.
Director Hightower explained that th-e-Xity-would-not normally -run the geology
on a project through Dr. Ehlig. She said the County has reviewed it and
recommended denial, but noted that they often do that pending further geology
information.
Public hearing was opened.
Monte Brower, Palos Verdes Properties, said at the last meeting the appli-
cant was directed to work with staff. He felt Dr. Ehlig's statements sup-
ported their position that the slide could be safely stabilized. He said
the field work recommended by Dr. Ehlig is now underway. He distributed
written information to the Commission. He said the previous plan had six
acres of development in the open Space Hazard zone and tonight's proposal
has no development in the Open Space Hazard zone. He said the only develop-
ment in the canyons would be for access. He said there were several other
alternative access routes other than Barkentine Canyon. He said the City
could have requested review of the geology reports sooner but instead waited
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until June to take the position that the site was unbuildable. He said
the applicant was willing to compensate the City for the geology work.
He said a ninety (90) day extension would allow five months, until November,
to complete the map and address geology. He said the extension would fur-
ther allow the applicant time to meet with the homeowners and discuss
the project. He said the applicant would be willing to meet with the
Commission on an informal work basis.
In response to Commission questions, Mr. Brower said the County first said
the site was suitable for development and then later could not recommended
approval because of the access.
Roy Hoffman, Converse Ward Davis Dixon, 1440 South State College Boulevard,
Anaheim, said they have taken a conservative approach and that they know
the basic overall geology of the site. He said they have information on
the depth of the slide material but that Dr. Ehlig has raised questions
that there may be something deeper. He said the landslide is very ancient.
He said their calculations are based on a worst case situation. He said
they have done some trenching and some borings, and he felt they could de-
fine the limits to within one (1) foot. He said their concern was to look
at the overall picture and at the type of development that would go there
and then determine the corrective measures that should be taken.
Dr. Brown asked how much variation there might be in the recommendations
between a project of this magnitude or one half the size.
Mr. Hoffman said they have come up with shear keys and buttress fills to
replace materials and provide stabilization regardless of what is developed.
He said once they know the basic geology of the site and what the problems
are, it does not matter what the development is. He said common procedure
is to first look at a project in the preliminary sense, then the pro3ect is
designed accordingly, and then the geologist deals with the final plan.
He felt the information they have now was suitable.
Mr. Hinchliffe asked if there was any difference in the stability if they
did the remedial work on the site or left the land as is, undeveloped:,
Mr. Hoffman said they felt the site was essentially stable in its present
state, but that since they were proposing modifications to the area they
would want to be sure that they increased the stability.
In response to further Commission questions, Mr. Hoffman said he believed
the Glass Church was built prior to requirements for geology, that there
were not the controls then that there are now. He said it was not until
the Portuguese Bend landslide in 1956 that the County began requiring
geology. He said the bedrock in the area was very high because of its
orientation.- '.--Ife7 ":7f -61t- th,6-geology was -favorable, to --EK site of
the development. He said the type development would only determine the
corrective measures to be taken. He said the slide material was very
shallow, twenty-five (25) feet deep, but was very dense and has been there
for a long time. He said the area to the east (Portuguese Bend landslide)
is an old slide with a depth of up to 200 feet in some places. He said
they have drilled to a depth of 170 feet on the subject site and there is
no indication that there is anything any deeper. He said the orientation
was back into the hill and to get down to the ocean it would have to
make a very large bend which is unlikely. He said bentonite indicates a
very expansive material that is slick when it becomes wet.
Phil Robinson, 3205 Barkentine Road, restated his previous concerns expressed
at the last Commission meeting with geology, hydrology, and liability. He
felt that since the geologist found the site stable in its present state,
the site should be left alone. He said hydrology and liability have not
been addressed. He said if the geology is a low risk proposition, it should
not be any problem for the applicant to obtain substantial insurance for
the residents and the City. He said the developers had months to work on
these problems, since review of the environmental impact report. He felt
the applicant was well aware of the concerns. He felt the land was too
risky to develop at all and that it was -the -burden of the developer to
bring =f7orth- -plans that Would benefit the c6mmu_nit__.v_._- He encouraged the
Commission to accept the staff recommendation to deny the project and not
continue the item.
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Kenneth Marks, Sikand Engineering, said he has been the project engineer
for two and one-half years, that he began part-way through the environ-
mental procedure. iii_e said th6re-,were rofis- 6—on-sb1tants ,involyed other
than himself. He said geology is generally done in steps, that first they
determine the feasibility of the project before submitting anything to the
City, then they provide information to the reviewing agencies. He said
he has seen the letters from the County and spoke with the County Geologist
and the County's concern is with the emergency access. He said there were
many alternative emergency access routes. He noted that the revised pro-
ject design may not even require one. He said the next step in the process
is once the final grading plans are done, a lot of information is required
by the County, and the geologist is on site during the grading to make
recommendations should things come to light at that time. He supported
having the City Geologist review the project and requested time to allow
for it.
In response to Commission questions, Mr. Marks said one possibility for
access is to have the road go in to the north, to the Presley site, which
would not require crossing -Open Space Hazard zoning, but would require a
land purchase. He said another possibility would be to bridge across the
canyon. He discussed various other possibilities.
Virginia Fleisher, 6330 Tarragon Road, representing the Abalone Cove Home-
owners Association, said geology was an inexact science. She noted the
current problems in the Seaview area and the Flying Triangle in Rolling
Hills. She was concerned with cutting into land so near those areas. She
questioned the geologist's statement that they could handle anything that
came up during the grading. She said at the last meeting the applicants
said they may be helping the entire area by stabilizing the problem on this
site and tonight they are saying the site is stable as it is.
Bob Pelton, 2 Packet Road, pointed out that there were many members of the
Lower Abalone Cove Homeowners Association present at the last meeting even
though he was the only speaker from the group. He said one issue of con-
cern not addressed is that prior to thd Presley development the drainage
in the area was barely adequate with the existing system, but since that
development the residents have experienced damage to private property, which
indicates the system's inablity to carry more of a load. He suggested
solving the whole problem by creating a moratorium on the building and
construction of the Presley development until a new drainage system is de-
signed and installed ---one that is designed not only to accommodate the
Presley site but also taking into consideration additional drainage from
new developments such as this one. He said the drainage would be a pro-
blem whether the land is stable or not. He concurred with the staff re-
commendation for denial of the project.
G. S. Sikand, Sikand Engineering, said he was working on this pr03ect be-
fore Mr. Marks took over. He said the project was studied in many different
ways, and he felt the current plan responded to the concerns. He said
the hydrology problem with the Presley development was with the maintenance,
that debris came down. He did.not feel this project would aggravate that
problem in any way. He said the canyons proposed to -be --filled were riot
substantial but that they could design a bridge that would satisfy the
City's needs. He said geology is a big issue but that the applicant was
asking the Commission if the geology issues can be satisfied, would the
pr03ect be acceptable. He said they had submitted a number of design alter-
natives but were waiting to come before'the Commission for guidance.
Mr. Hughes said there are active landslides within sight of this area and
the site contains known ancient landslides.
In response to Commission questions, Mr. Sikand said they could design a
system that will not increase the runoff. He said his understanding with
the Presley site is that they diverted the water to avoid the active slide
and it was a trade-off which is now affecting the people below. He said
the area is currently a fire hazard and that if there is a fire the debris
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would plug drains and become a problem. He said approval would allow
development of a piece of property which will provide a tax base and may
stabilize the area.
On motion of Mr. McTaggart, seconded by Dr. Baer,,and-unanimously_!7arfY-ed=,
the public hearing was continued.
In response to a question by Mr. Hinchliffe, Mr. Thompson said the time
factor was one reason staff preferred denying the project and having the
applicant reapply. He felt five (5) months was not adequate time to pro-
perly process this application. -
Mr. Hinchliffe asked if the applicant would go to the end of the line again
and wait another year to get to this point in the process if he resubmits
the project application.
Director Hightower did not feel there would be a year's delay since staff
was nearing completion of some of the ma3or applications in the backlog.
She said the environmental process would merely be a formality since the
environmental impact report covers everything. She said the Commission
could recommend that the project not be placed at the end of the line. She
noted that there was a provision in the Code which prohibits reapplication
of a conditional use permit within one (1) year.
Dr. Brown proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. Hughes, to adopt Resolution
No. 8149, thereby denying Conditional Use Permit No. 66 and recommending
to the City Council denial of Tentative Tract Map No. 37962 based on the
findings contained in the resolution and with the recommendation that the
applicant be allowed to have the one (1) year rule for reapplication of a
conditional use permit waived and the recommendation that the --applicant
be required on any future proposals to have a full report by Dr. Ehlig at
the applicant's expense.
Mr. McTaggart felt the Commission should give direction to the applicant
re the design of the project. He said since the Commission has heard
testimony that the hydrology is already inadequate, perhaps they should
discuss whether the amount of impervious material proposed is appropriate.
Mr. Hinchliffe suggested that the motion include the recommendation that
the applicant not be placed at the end of the line when he reapplies, and
that they set up some kind of informal meeting as suggested by the applicant
to review the concept, if the City Attorney has no objection to that type
of meeting.
It was the consensus of the Commission that Mr. Hinchliffe's suggestions
were already understood and that it was not necessary to include them in
a formal motion.
Dr. Baer said he was inclined to go along with the applicant's request
for a -three (3) month time extension. He suggested asking the applicant
his thoughts on the motion.
Mr. Brower said he would have to go back and report to his employer and ex-
plain the alternatives.
Dr. Brown did not feel there was sufficient time to review the project and
said the conditions attached to the motion would give the applicant the
opportunity to come back and reapply.
Mr. McTaggart agreed that it sometimes takes four to six meetings to come
up with a configuration that is acceptable to the City and still meets the
criteria for developability as far as the -applicant is concerned. However,
he did not want the applicant to think that if the geology checks out the
rest of the project is satisfactory, since the Commission has not yet dis-
cussed the density or any other issues.
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The motion was amended by Dr. Brown, with Mr. Hughes agreeing, to state
that the geology should be addressed before the Commission considers any
future applications.
Roll call vote on the above motion, as amended, was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal this action to the City Council
within fifteen (15) calendar days.
In response to audience questions, Director Hightower said the method for
receiving agendas is to supply self-addressed, stamped envelopes to the
City.
RECESS
At 10:10 p.m. a brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 10:22 p.m.
with the same members present.
HEIGHT VARIATION NO. 178 APPEAL Ms. Lavitt said the 8,000 square foot
30221 Kingsridge site was located in an RS -3 zoning dis-
Applicant/Landowner: R. Taylor trict. She described how the height
Appellant: Richard Bullock of the proposed addition was measured.
She said the house backs up to a Mira-
leste Parks and Recreation District
easement which slopes up from Kingsridge Road and is approximately eighty
(80) feet wide. She said the residences to the south, which have Miraleste
Drive addresses, do not have a view as defined in the Development Code.
She said the appbllant's residence faces Miraleste Drive and the view from
the back of their house is of trees planted in the Parks District easement
and on private property. Staff analyzed the application and after a field
inspection determined there would be no view obstruction caused by the
addition. Staff recommended that the Commission deny the appeal based on
the Code's definition of view.
In response to Commission questions, Ms. Lavitt said the proposed addition
would be six (6) feet higher than the existing ridgeline. She said the
proposal did not exceed the thirty (30) foot limit.
Reginald Taylor, 30221 Kingsridge Road, applicant, said the appellant thought
they were adding fourteen (14) feet to the height of the house. He said
the addition was on the south end of the house and was a little more than
one-third of the width of the house facing the street.
Richard Bullock, 4363 Miraleste Drive, appellant, said there were five
additional people involved in the appeal who were unable to attend tonight's
meeting because they were out of town. He requested that the item be con-
tinued to another date.
Mr. Hughes noted that there were a number of people present to speak on
this matter.
Mr. McTaggart said the listed appellant was present and, therefore, he
could find no reason to continue the item.
the ,.The Commissidn agreed to_-i6fo"e��ed with h e _noitcontinue it unle5s
they were to reach a point where they needed clarification.
Mr. Bullock said the objection was primarily based on a loss of privacy. _
He said the trees would be removed and excluded- _from 1iis'ViewiK4 area. ' In
his opinion the property value of his home would decrease or at least not
appeciate at the same level. He said they had a swimming pool and were
concerned about the placement of windows on the addition. He felt the
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sub3ect house was on a ridge or promontory. He also expressed concern
about fire hazards and the geological fault he was advised runs through
the area. He said his CC&Rs prohibit second -story additions. He referred
to the eight objections listed in the letter he and other concerned resi-
dents submitted to the City.
Mr. McTaggart said the thirty (30) foot height was measured from a specific
point and that by the City's_ definition the existing structure was twenty-
four (24) feet high right now. He said -by the City's definition the home
was not on a ridge.
The following speakers had submitted requests to address the Commission but
declined the opportunity to speak, saying Mr. Bullock expressed all of
their concerns and that they concurred with his testimony: Rita Bullock,
4363 Miraleste Drive; Joseph E. Yankovich, 4351 Miraleste Drive; Eva
Yankovich, 4121 Miraleste Drive; and Joseph Yankovich, 4121 Miraleste
Drive.
Mr. Hinchliffe felt this was a very clear case, that the appellant does
not have a view as defined by the Code.
Dr. Brown proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Baer, to deny the appeal of
Height Variation No. 178 based on the Commission ability to make all of
the required findings in Section 9113 of the Code.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Baer, Brown, Hichliffe, McTaggart, Hughes
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
Mr. Hughes advised of the right to appeal this decision to the City Council
within fifteen calendar days.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
the Commission unanimously approved
1981, as submitted.
STAFF REPORTS
Mr. Hinchliffe questioned portions of
the minutes. Commission discussion
clarified the points in question and
the minutes of the meeting of June 9,
Director Hightower asked about the
Commissioners' vacation schedules.
Dr. Baer said he would be on vacation from August 3 to September 10.
Dr. Brown said he would be on vaction from August 22 to August 30.
Director Hightower noted that Al Levitt has submitted his plans and would
like another joint session in July.
The Commission agreed on July 22 for the meeting.
COMMISSION REPORTS Mr. Hughes said he met with the other
Committee Chairmen and the Mayor over
the past weekend and discovered that
the two Committee Chairmen were equally as upset with the new charter as
was the Commission. He said they were planning to make their own statements.
Mr. Hughes said the Traffic Committee will be holding a public hearing to
review the impacts of privately owned streets in the City.
ADJOURNMENT At 11:20 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Thursday,
July 2, 1981, at 7:30 p.m.
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