PC MINS 19800923M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Ad3ourned Meeting
September 23, 1980
The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman Brown.
PRESENT: Baer, Hinchliffe, McTaggart, Brown
LATE ARRIVAL Hughes
ABSENT: None
Also present were Acting Director of Planning Gary Weber and Assistant
Planner Sandra Lavitt.
CONSENT CALENDAR
the minutes of the meeting of September
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 39672
South of Seacove Drive
Landowner/Applicant: Tumanjan
and Tumanjan Investments
be located in the westernmost portion
Mr. Hughes arrived at 7:44 p.m.
On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded
by Dr. Baer the Consent Calendar was
unanimously adopted, thereby approving
9, 1980, as submitted.
Mr. Weber said at the last meeting the
Commission requested further information
and revisions, and that subsequent to
that meeting a revised map was submitted
by the applicant. He said one of the
primary revisions included relocation
of the vista park, (,now proposed to
of the site.
r4r.
Weber said staff felt a vista park in this location offered excellent
opportunities, but that the proposed flag lot configuration was unacceptable
because the park would not be visually_ accessible and would, therefore, not
offer maximum public access. He said the Director of Parks and Recreation
concurred that in its present configuration the proposed park would not be
satisfactory. Staff recommended redesign of the proposed park. He said
another significant matter was the bluff trail. He said it was the City
Attorney's opinion that a number of agencies may have a good case to
establish a prescriptive easement along the bluff. He said the applicant
felt that the trade-off was either a bluff trail or a park. Based on
that, staff suggested that a conditional use permit be filed which would
offer both sides latitude in design. He said another option was a variance
but that would be more difficult because of the required findings; therefore,
staff recommended a conditional use permit. He apologized for not having
the photographs on display as he did not have adequate time to prepare them.
He said he analyzed the potential impacts from Porto Verde, from the upland
proposed project, and from the Bay Club. He said in a worst case situation
there would be significant view obstruction in some cases. He said another
issue which came up was concerning bluff accidents. He said he fouhd some
records from when the City was preparing its Coastal Specific Plan which
showed no significant number of bluff accidents at that site.=- Staff recom-
mended that the Commission review the revised map and continue the matter
to the next meeting. He noted that the lot sizes shown on -the map received
by the Commission was not correct and has since been corrected.
In response to questions by Mr. Hughes, Mr. Weber said the City could
approve the map and the following day someone could initiate the procedure
for a prescriptive easement, that it would be a court procedure. He
said he believed that such a procedure would not impact the processing
of the map.
In response to questions by Mr. Hinchliffe, Mr. Weber said encroachThent
into the coastal setback area would require a variance, which would be
difficult to obtain. He said regardless of what evidence the geologist
came up with, the line was fixed.
Mr. McTaggart noted that if the developer establishes lot lines which require
a variance for development, it could not be granted because the developer
would have created a self-imposed hardship.
In response to questions by Dr. Baer concerning the vista park, Mr. Weber
said his concern was with visual accessibility. He said in order to
maximize public use of the park it must be visible to the public. He
felt a minimum acceptable frontage would be 90 or 100 feet.
Mr. McTaggart said he liked the proposed park location out on the point
but was concerned that it would be more accessible to the residents
than to the people of the state of California. He agreed with staff's
analysis.
Dr. Brown noted that this was a continued public hearing.
Peter Delgado, Tumanjan and Tumanjan Investments, Inc., 22939 Hawthorne
Boulevard, Torrance, said the intention initially was to have the park
in the center of the development. He said he agreed that the end parcel -
was not highly visible. He said they were willing to reduce the size of
the lots to create a larger vista park. He said he was willing to submit
a conditional use permit application if it could be heard at the October
14, 1980, Commission meeting.
Paul Davis, Medall, Aragon, Worswick and Associates, geologist, 2044 Kotner,
Los Angeles, said they submitted two reports and in those reports and the
letter they detailed the reason for the setback line based on geologic studies
that they performed. He said the conditions on this site were significantly
different than Portuguese Bond, that this was one of the most stable areas
of bluff along the City's coastline. He said it was only when bentonite was
continuous that it represented a problem and such was not the case with this
site.
In response to commission questions, Mr. Delgado said there was an existing
asphalt road about 8 to 10 feet wide that was somewhat deteriorated which he
proposed to improve and landscape on the west side next to the trail. He
said the lot lines were adjustable, that the minimum acceptable lot width
was 70 feet and the minimum acceptable lot size was three-fourths of an
acre. He said it was their intention to build the homes well back from the
street, thereby creating the large setback referred to by staff.
On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and unanimously
carried, the public hearing was continued.
Mr. Hughes said he would like to know what the Parks and Recreation
Department considered adequate for the park site.
Mr. Weber said at a minimum the Director of Parks and Recreation indicated
he would consider something on the order of the combination of lot A and
lot #1, as that would give visual access to the site and perhaps allow
for a small parking area.
Mr. Hinchliffe felt they had a fairly good indication of what the Parks
and Recreation Department would like and he had no opposition to a
decrease in lot size. He said the only unknown in his mind was what the
City Council wanted concerning bluff dedication. He said the applicant
indicated a willingness to go with a conditional use permit.
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Dr. Brown felt a determination on the -bluff issue was a key element.
Mr. Delgado said he would submit a conditional use permit application and had
no -problem with a lot size reduction. Re the vista park he said his
preference would be to have the park in the center as originally proposed
but that he would put it where the City wished.
In response to a question by Dr. Baer, Mr. Weber said Marineland owned
the property immediately west. He said a park --'in the present location
could be a visual buffer from Marineland's activities.
Dr. Baer said the feeling of the Commission was that they would like
reconfiguration. He said they needed to see the view analysis and needed
answers to the bluff dedication issue.
Mr. Hinchliffe suggested more input from Parks and Recreation concerning
the park location, i.e. first, second and third choice.
Keith Palmer, architect, showed the Commission the colored two -acre
proposal of the vista park in the center. He said the last proposal
was shown on the east side and the current one is on the west side of
the site.
Dr. Brown said he preferred the vista park in its present location but
modified to make it -adequate and acceptable to the Parks and Recreation
Department and the concerns raised by staff related to visual accessibility.
Mr. McTaggart also felt the location on the point was better. He said
it would also provide a buffer from anything that may go on at Marineland.
Mr. Hughes suggested the vista park be extended along the bluff. He said
this would provide maximum usage and public access and would solve the
problem of a prescriptive easement. He said the City's goal was to pre-
serve as much coastal land as possible for public access.
Mr. Hinchliffe said he had no problem with that if the City Council was
willing to take over the park. He felt they should wait until they get
the necessary information from the City Council and the Parks and Recreation
Department.
Dr: Baer agreed with Mr. Hughes.
Dr. Brown said he had no objection to what Mr. Hughes suggested but -would
have to wait to hear back from the City Council. He advised the applicant
that the question of bluff dedication would be answered by the Council
and that he hoped they could then arrive at a mutually satisfactory solution.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 39673 Mr. Weber --said at the last meeting the
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 58 Commission reviewed the revised map
Southwest of Beachview & Coastsite which included one less unit, relocated
Landowner/Applicant: Tumanjan recreation facilities, revised lot
and Tumanjan Investments lines, and a (eduction in the length
of "A" Street. He said it was the
Commission's consensus that the basic
design concept was acceptable if view obstruction was nota problem, and that
the Commission felt further information was necessary on the issues of
walkways, walls, view, private streets, and geology. He said the revised
plan showed a more extensive system of walkways within the development. He
said the primary changes included two new segments of walkway leading from
the easternmost cul-de-sac to the Coastsite Drive fight -of -way and realign-
ment and extension of the walkways adjacent to the recreation area. He
said as submitted it was a very thorough walkway system but he did not see
where it provided any direct public access through the site. He said the
perimeter wall plans showed a wrought iron and block masonry wall with
pilasters at regular intervals and some pockets for landscaping. It was -
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recommended that no part of the wall exceed 42 inches within 20 feet
of the property line for vehicular visibility and for consistency with; -
the setbacks. He said another problem was that some of the landscaping
had the potential of obstructing views. He said the latest plan still
designated the streets as private and staff continued to recommend that
they be public. He said the latest plan had been submitted to"the`Public
Works Department but'that staff had not heard back re textured surfaced
streets and whether they were acceptable. He said the applicant indicated
that a geologist would be present at this meeting to answer any questions
re geology. He apologized for not having the final view analysis prepared
for this meeting. He said there would be view obstruction from the Bay
Club but that there were areas where the units could be lowered to maintain
much of the view. He said -a portion of the view would be obstructed from
the first floor units of Porto Verde. He said there would also very
clearly be view obstruction from the project which was 3ust approved across
Beachview. He said in many -cases a structure 16 feet in height would
obstruct much of the view. Staff recommended that the applicant look at
the grading plan and try to lower those structures to minimize view
impacts. He said in a lot of cases there would be no expectation of
a vi6w but in other cases there would be view obstruction for part of the
structure that exceeds 16 feet. He said unfortunately the weather had
not permitted a really good view analysis. Staff recommended that the
Commission review the pr03ect and continue the matter to the next meeting.
Dr. Brown said this was a continued public hearing for the conditional
use permit and he opened the public hearing on the tentative tract map.
Keith Palmer, Neil Stanton Palmer Architects, Silver Spur Road, Rolling
Hills Estates, said the sections showed the units as being rectangular
in shape and he pointed out that they were proposing hip roofs which
would reduce the impact. He re-emphasized the importance of the roof-
scape on the parcel as people approach from Palos Verdes Drive South. He
said the roofs would have significant effect.
Peter Delgado, Tumanjan and Tumanaan Investments, Inc., Torrance, said
at the previous meeting it was suggested that there be continuous walk-
ways. He said they submitted the proposed wall elevation to the staff. He
said the landscaping would be controlled by CC&Rs. He said none of the -ad-
jacent properties would be denied 100 percent of their existing views.
He said the issue of private versus public streets was still unresolved.
He said he still preferred private streets with -walkways. He said there
could also be an easement along the roadway. He suggested a 24 -inch
reduction in finished grade which would lower structures in critical
points. He said they could also reduce the pitch of the roofs.
Mr. McTaggart was concerned with the cumulative effect with the
number of units proposed and their effect on the surrounding property.
He said the Commission has to look at that effect.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, and unanimously
carried, the public hearing was continued.
It was the consensus of the Commission to go along with staff's recommendation
concerning the wall height not exceed 42 inches within 20 feet of the
right-of-way.
Mr. Hughes felt there should be a landscaping plan and further re-
quested an elevation or growth line or maintenance height line be
established for the landscaping.
It was the consensus of the Commission that a landscaping plan be required.
Dr. Baer said he was not opposed to private streets and pointed out
that many people prefer them.
Mr. Hinchliffe asked if the provisions of the Coastal -Plan required public
streets and if they were mandated.
Mr. Weber said yes to both questions.
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Mr. Delgado said private streets were allowed if they did not impede
public access.
It was -the consensus of the Commission that there be public streets.
Re walkways, Mr. Hinchliffe said he would rather see public streets
and not worry about walkways to the park.
Mr. Hughes agreed. He said if the applicant were to propose an alternative
development that was not as dense, then perhaps he would consider private
streets with walkways.
Dr. Brown agreed that with public streets the walkway issue was resolved.
It was the consensus of the Commission that they were satisfied with the
walkway system as it exists as long as the streets were public.
Mr. McTaggart felt every effort should be made to maintain views on
adjacent properties, particularly with regard to the recently approved
projects. He felt consideration should be given to the use of hip
roofs, but wanted to be sure the first consideration was towards the City's
own height variation ordinance.
Mr. Hinchliffe said view obstruction clearly is a problem. He said he
was not sure, however, to what extent they should consider view obstruction
to the Bay Club. In addition, he said in looking at the cross sections, it
appeared that there were units proposed within the project that would have
their views obstructed by units proposed in front of them.
Re geology, Mr. McTaggart said his concerns had been discussed in the
previous public hearing.
Dr. Brown suggested that staff come back to the next meeting with a
view analysis.
RECESS
At 9:46 p.m. a brief recess was
called. The meeting reconvened
at 9:59 p..m. with the same members
present.
HEIGHT VARIATION 155 APPEAL Ms. Lavitt said the applicant was
Lot 21, Tract 31617 (Seacrest) appealing staff's denial for the
Appellant/Landowner: Dr. M. Lewis construction of a single family
residence at a proposed height of
25.5 feet. She said the site slopes
from the front property line up to a flat pad, with 5:1 slopes on both
the east and west property lines and a slope down to the walkway easement at
the rear. She said an onsite inspection indicated that the proposed structure
would contribute toward future cumulative impact and adversely affect the
view from surrounding undeveloped property. She said the future development
of the Kajima site (across Ocean Terrace Drive) would be impacted by
the cumulative effect of structures over 16 feet in height along this
ridge, thereby effectively obstructing Catalina Island and the distant
horizon. She said upon denial`of the application, revised plans were
submitted which lowered the structure to 18 feet. She said although
lowering the structure diminished viewing impacts, the potential for
cumulative view obstruction still exists from the adjacent undeveloped
property. Staff recommended that the appeal be denied and -the applicant
revise the plans to conform to the Code, since the proposed structure
would contribute to significant cumulative impact.
Dr. Baer asked if staff interpreted the site as being on a ridge or
promontory. He felt it was.
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Ms. Lavitt said staff did not consider it to be on a ridge.
Marshall Lewis, architect, 721 Lionel Road, Santa Monica, said before
approaching the City they approached the -n-6i,ghbb"fing property owners..
He said they felt the properties across the canyon would not have any
adverse effects because they were quite a distance away. He said they
totally redesigned the house the best they could without losing a tremendous
amount of footage. He said due to the cost of the property it seemed it
would be a hardship to have a smaller amount of square footage than
that proposed. He added that the natural grade of the site had been
higher prior to the creation of the pad.
Mr. McTaggart said the pad elevations whi&h were established during
the hear'ings on the tract were to be the points from which measurements
were taken. He said the existing grade is the natural grade to the new
owners.
In response to questions by Dr. Baer, Mr. Lewis said the lot was at the
end of the cul-de-sac and was different than -:most of the other lots in
that it sloped up.
Mr. McTaggart said it was graded -that way for the drainage.
Marshall Lewis, landowner, 2 Ketch, Marina del Rey, said one of their
family members had -se-Vere-arthritis and that the second -floor was proposed
to house a rehabilitation facility and that an elevator was proposed
to carry that family member to the second floor. He said the design was
both beautiful and functional, and that the extra height was necessary
to house the proposed facility.
Mr. Hughes said in his opinion this was an application where cumulative
impact was really an issue. He said if there were ten 25 -foot homes
in a row there would be a significant effect. He said in consideration
of this tract all things were looked at. He felt staff was very generous
not saying this was on a promontory.
Mr. Hinchliffe said there was a difference in elevation of about 10 feet
on this lot and then the next lot dropped another 8 to 10 feet. He said
he might agree with Mr. Hughes' concern more if the lots were all at the
same elevation.
Mr. McTaggart said there was a great deal of concern in terms of
drainage with this tract, that was the number -one consideration. He
said the second c-onsideratIon was to set pad elevations in order to
preserve views.
Mr. Hinchliffe asked about the applicant grading down two feet to accom-
modate an 18 -foot structure.
Mr. McTaggart said only if it would not affect the drainage.
Dr. Brown said the drainage issue was a major issue of his Homeowners
Association at the time of tract hearings. He said when the developer
changed his mind about building the homes the Homeowners Association was
very concerned that pad elevations be set. He felt this was a very good
example of a promontory and felt there also was potential-, for cumulative
effect.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, and carried, with
Mr. Hinchliffe dissenting, the Commission denied the appeal of staff's
decision, thereby denying Height Variation No. 155 because of cumulative
impact and the project was located on a ridge or promontory.
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Dr. Brown advised the audience of the right to appeal this decision
to the City Council within fifteen calendar days.
VARIANCE NO. 52 Mr. Weber said appli8ations-were re -
28710 Atford ceived for both a height variation
Applicant: Bill Lusby, A.I.A. and variance, which were separate
Landowner: Renato Curto procedures but related to this
project. He said the proposed
pro3ect was located above the
existing garage which faces Atford Drive. He said the maximum height
of the proposed structure was 23 feet and consisted of apprioximiately 1000
square feet. He said some minor grading was proposed, and no windows
were proposed for the south side of the addition which faces the adjacent
neighboring property. He reviewed the required findings and staff's
responses as listed in the staff report. Staff felt there were
exceptional or extraordinary circumstances or conditions applicable
to the property involved because the existing single family residence,
faces and is oriented towards Atford Drive and already is an encroachment
and the structure is placed on the lot in such a manner that it is
reasonable for the proposed second story addition to meet and match the
existing first story wall. Staff felt such a variance was necessary
for the preservation and enjoyment of a substantial property right of
the applicant because due to the orientation of the structure on the
lot, the applicant was restricted from constructing an addition that,
would match the existing house and work with the existing structure that
already encroached into the rear setback. Staff felt the granting of the
variance will not be materially detrimental to the public welfare or
in3urious to property and improvements in the area in which the property
is located because there is no evidence indicating otherwise. Staff
felt the granting of such a variance would not be contrary to the objectives
of the General Plan because of the structure's position on the corner lot,
if the front property line designation were changed to Atford Drive,
the lot would provide for a 24 -foot front setback, a 21 -foot+ street side
setback (along Sparta), a 30 -foot+ rear setback, and a 10.5 -foot side
yard setback. He reviewed the plans on display and said the applicant was
requesting a variance for an addition that would come up and match the
existing structure. Staff recommended that the Planning Commission
appprove Variance No. 52 since all the mandatory findings can be made,
sub]ect to the condition that all appropriate approvals on permits be
obtained for the proposed second story addition. He said this was a
very similar case as the one heard by the Commission a couple weeks, ago in
that the orientation of the existing structure pretty much dictates the loca-
tion of the addition.
In response to a question by Dr. Baer, Mr. Weber said staff has determined
that there would be no view obstruction and approval of the height variation
was awaiting his signature.
Bill Lusby, 642 South Palos Verdes Street, San Pedro, said the problem
was that the County had jurisdiction at the time the structure was built.
He said there was a difference then as to which was the front of the house.
He said when the City incorporated and changed ordinances, the front and
side property lines were changed.
In response to questions by Dr. Baer,, Mr. Lusby said other locations
had been considered for the addition but if it was on the north side it
would obstruct the view of the hou-s-e across the street. He said a single
story addition was impossible because of the pool and yard area.
Kenneth Slade, 2230 Sparta Drive, across the street from the pr03ect site,
said he was more concerned with the height variation than with the
variance for encroachment. He did not see how one could be considered
without the other. He said there were no two-story homes in the neigh-
borhood and there were no other rear yard encroachments. He was concerned
about view obstruction and said his view was towards the harbor area, over
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the northern portion of the subject site.
size of the addition.also.
•
He was concerned with the
In response to a question by Dr. Brown, Mr. Slade said if the addition
stayed within the height limit he would not be opposed to the encroach-
ment.
Lee Argabright, 2289 Sparta, said he lived several blocks away in the
next tract. He said the specifics of this particular pro3ect would have
no effect on him, but he was perplexed by the mechanism that separates
the two applications. He felt it was meaningless to discuss one and not
the other. His objection was primarily a matter of principal. He said
there were no two-story homes, only one split level home on that street.
He was concerned about setting a precedent and the non -conformity with
the neighborhood.
In repsonse to a question by Dr. Baer, Mr. Argabright said he was
not concerned about the encroachment problem but rather the height
variation.
Doris Oldenburg, 28722 Atford, next door, was concerned with the closeness
of the two-story addition to her property. She waq concerned with the
effect it would have on the privacy of her vara.:fSTTe-*was also concerned
that part of her view might be destroyed. She said -they had a City view
over the rear of the subject property.
Mr. Hinkel, 2278 Sparta, spoke in support of the project. He said he
could not understand why anyone was ob3ecting.
On motion of Mr. Hinchliffe, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and unanimously
carried, the public hearing was closed.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mr. McTaggart, and unanimously
carried, the matter was continued until the appeal period expires on the
height variation decision; and if appealed, that both items be considered
at the same time.
Mr. McTaggart left at 11:10 p.m.
STAFF REPORTS Mr. Weber said November 11, was
Veterans' Day and, therefore, that
Planning Commission meeting would
have to be rescheduled. He said he would check on the availability of
the Council Chambers and report back to the Commission.
Mr. Weber announced that the City had a new City Manager, Don Guluzzy,
from Morro Bay, due to begin on November 10. He said Sharon Hightower
and he would continue in their "acting" positions until that time.
Mr. Weber said he was figuring how much staff time would be needed to assist
the Commission on the trails study and mixed-use development study.
COMMISSION REPORTS Dr. Brown said the Architectural Com-
mittee interviewed four architectural
firms and would be deciding which
ones to recommend to the City Council for approval.
Dr Brown reminded the Commission of its joint meeting with the City Council
on September 30.
Mr. Hinchliffe said he would not be able to attend the meeting on
September 30.
Dr. Brown said the Ordinance Subcommittee (Mr. Hughes and Mr. McTaggart)
should review the height variation ordinance. He said the City Council's
recent actionvwas to av_Ge94, receive and file.
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Mr. Weber said staff will also be sending that Subcommittee something on
lot sizes and their relationship to private roads.
Mr. Hughes asked the status of the Holtzman tennis court. Mr. Weber said
Mr. Holtzman just submitted a minor exception permit on the structure,
that the judgement had been that he could submit a minor exception permit
to the City.
Dr. Brown said the Mayor's conference would be October 4, 1980.
ADJOURNMENT At 11:21 p.m. it was moved, seconded
and carried, to adjourn to Tuesday,
September 34, 1980, at 7:30 p.m.
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