PC MINS 19800311M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Meeting
March 11, 1980
The meeting was called to order at 7:36 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Vice -Chairman Bacharach.
PRESENT: Brown, Hughes, Bacharach
ABSENT: Hinchliffe, McTaggart
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower and Assistant Plan-
ners Sandra Lavitt and John Emeterio.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by
Dr. Brown, and unanimously carried,
the minutes of the meeting of Febru-
ary 26, 1980, were approved with the following amendments: page 6, para-
graph 9, should read "...was closed for the evening."; and page 9, 12th
complete paragraph, line 3, should read "...in the future they would be
more complete."
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 12303 Ms. Lavitt said this item was con -
7 Mustang Road tinued from the last meeting to ob-
Applicant: Yolanda Kleve tain opinions from the City Attorney
and further information. Re the
methodology of measuring lot size, it
was the City Attorney's opinion that the Code has been correctly interpreted
and the City has consistently measured minimum lot size as defined in the
Code. He further stated that to change the method now would be legally
questionable. Re the Los Angeles County methodology, it was stated that
they would exclude area included within the private drive easement from
the lot size. The impact to the private roadway was considered minimal and
in conformance with the standards of the General Plan. The City Attorney
indicated that assuming the capacity of the road was adequate to accommodate
projected traffic, the Commission could not deny the map. It was further
stated that the Commission could deny the map if the condition of the road
was such that it was a danger to public health, safety and welfare. In
staff's estimation portions of the road were poor but not to the point of
being a deterent to access for emergency vehicles. Re concerns regarding
maintenance and improvement requirements for the road, the City Attorney
said the City could require that the applicant improve and maintain that
portion of the private roadway in front of the subject property, but could
not require improvements to other portions of the private roadway. Re site
drainage, staff contacted the City Engineer and it was stated that the drain-
age must meet the design standards set by the Building Code. Ms. Lavitt said
the water would probably be directed to the natural drainage course, but that
the final determination would be based on how the lot would be developed.
Based on the information obtained, staff could find no major areas of concern
that would alter the previous recommendation. Therefore, staff recommended
that Tentative Parcel Map No. 12303 be approved subject to the conditions
found in Exhibit "A" of the draft resolution.
Mr. Hughes asked if it was possible to require as a condition of approval
that the current easement be deeded to the City or made a formal right-of-
way to the City so that should the roads in the future become public this
section would already be public domain.
Director Hightower said one of the criteria for the City accepting a street
is that it meet the City standards.
Mrs. Bacharach was concerned about drainage and suggested a condition for
future development.
Yolanda Kleve, applicant, said she felt the project met all specifications
and requirements and said if the lot was split and developed it would en-
hance the area.
Kenneth W. Gale, 4136 Lorraine Road, said the neighbors spoke at the last
meeting about density, but that most of the lots were around one-quarter
of an acre. He said there were not too many half -acre lots which were
buildable, but that the subject lot had a gentle terrain.
Wallace Lane, 11 Mustang Road, spoke in support of the project. He said
his lot was adjacent and was listed as six -tenths of an acre.
Bill Ryan, 2 Rockinghorse, expressed concern about the size of the proposed
lots and the fact that the City has chosen a Code less restrictive than the
County's Code. He said his real concern was with the impacts the lot split
would have on the character of the neighborhood. He said the lots on the
south side of Rockinghorse were one acre in size. He was concerned that if
this request was granted the other lots could also be granted approval and
the roads would be used to a greater extent.
Mr. Hughes asked Mr. Ryan if he had considered requesting a zone change for
the neighborhood and wondered if he understood the zoning.
Mr. Ryan said he understood the zoning but he did not see where the Code
indicates that easements should be counted as part of the lot.
Mr. Hughes expressed surprise that a City Council meeting had gone by without
the neighbors addressing a zone change.
Geraldine Miller, 4 Rockinghorse, referred to an article she read in the
newspaper about the County selling easements on which taxes had not been
paid. She said the applicant did not own the easement, that the County
owned it.
Director Hightower said the article was concerning a case on Surry Lane
which was an entirely different circumstance. She said that was probably
an illegal split in the first place. She advised Mrs. Miller to read her
deed which would state that she owns a portion of the road, that the County
did not own these easements.
Mike Toll, #1 Eastfield, was concerned with the storm drain. He said about
five years ago there was a study to include a County storm drain down the
back of the subject property. He said he has been trying to get the City
of Rolling Hills to install that storm drain. He was concerned that develop-
ment may cut off the storm drain and said there was a large amount of erosion.
He suggested a requirement for the installation of a storm drain system.
Bob Vance, 3 Rockinghorse, said the deed for the project site shows two par-
cels, one for the basic parcel and one for the road easement. He said the
citizens should be made aware of the fact that the zoning requirements for
Rancho Palos Verdes are more relaxed than the County requirements.
Mrs. Bacharach said the Development Code and the General Plan were public
documents and were adopted after public hearings. She said the Commission
must base its decisions on these adopted public documents.
Mr. Vance said he was not opposed to the zoning, only to the issue of ease-
ments.
Re a deposit for the road during construction, Mrs. Miller said the damage
to the road would occur after construction. She felt there should be some
stipulation for repair of the road.
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Director Hightower said it could be bonded at the time of construction per-
mits.
Public participation was closed.
Mr. Hughes said the City must uniformly apply all ordinances and must be
consistent with the necessary findings. He said the Commission had no con-
trol over the zoning which has been established, they are simply looking at
the creation of two lots. He said the concerns about potential flooding
problems, run-off, control of drainage channels, and maintenance of the
road should damage occur are all related to development of the property.
Dr. Brown said the Commission must base its decision on the two major docu-
ments which took a long time to develop with a lot of public input, those
being the Development Code and the General Plan. He said it was mandatory
that the Commission -continue to consistently apply all Codes. He said this
request meets the Codes re lot size, etc. He said the neighbors were ex-
pressing concern about the existing zoning which was under the City Council's
control. He felt, however, that there should be conditions for drainage.
Mrs. Bacharach concurred. She suggested that the neighbors present their
problem with the zoning to the City Council. She said the Commission would
need direction from the Council to do a zone change.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Dr. Brown, and unanimously carried,
Resolution P.C. No. 80-3 was adopted, approving Tentative Parcel Map No.
12303 subject to the conditions in Exhibit "A", amended as follows: condi-
tion no. 4. b. was changed to read "Provide for appropriate drainage struc-
tures for contributory drainage from adjoining properties and said property."
Mrs. Bacharach advised of the right to appeal this decision to the City
Council within fifteen calendar days.
RECESS
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 12404
27865 Palos Verdes Drive East
Landowner: John Martin
HEIGHT VARIATION 138 APPEAL
5200 Crestwind
Landowner: Dr. P. Afsarzadeh
Appellants: Mr. & Mrs. R. Goern
At 8:30 p.m. a brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 8:40 p.m.
with the same members present.
The Commission was in receipt of a
letter from the applicant withdrawing
the application. No action required.
The Commission was in receipt of a
letter from the appellants withdrawing
their appeal of this application. No
action required.
GRADING NO. 419 APPEAL Mr. Emeterio said following submittal
15 Rockinghorse of this application, the standard grad -
Appellant: Frank Parkes ing analysis was done and the proposed
grading plan was determined by staff to
be unacceptable because of several non -
conformities with the Development Code. After a consultation between staff
and the applicant re the possibility of revising the proposed project, staff
denied the application and, subsequently, that decision was appealed. He
said the request was to grade 180 cubic yards of earth in order to accommo-
date a pool and barn structure in the rear of the subject property. Staff
determined that the ma3ority of the existing grade was in excess of 35 per-
cent, that the created slopes along the southerly boundary of the project
were in excess of 55 percent, that the barn was located less than 35 feet
from a habitable structure, that the sideyard retaining walls were in excess
of the 42 -inch maximum height, that the proposed grading was excessive to
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that necessary for the permitted primary use of the lot, and that the pro-
posed grading did not minimize disturbance to the natural contours and
finished contours were not reasonably natural. He said the preliminary
soils report, attached to the staff report, did not take into consideration
the proposed barn. Staff recommended that the Commission deny the appeal
for the reasons listed in the staff report.
Dr. Brown noted that the application stated 23 percent maximum created
slopes and that the total average slope of the site was shown at 26.5 per-
cent.
Mr. Emeterio said staff did not have computations for the total site.
Mr. Hughes said in view of recent decisions it appeared to be the City
Council's express desire to allow maximum development of property.
Director Hightower said staff has to deal with the present Development Code.
She noted that in the specific cases referred to by Mr. Hughes, the lots in
question were double lots, were not in excess of 35 percent, and had large
areas which Council felt could be used.
Frank Parkes, 15 Rockinghorse, said these plans had been in the Planning
office for 12 months, had been through five plan changes, and had been
before this Commission, and at no time previously had anyone ever brought
to his attention the fact that the barn was located too close to his resi-
dence. He said he had a map made before any structures were placed on the
site and it shows a 30 percent grade. He showed sections of the soils re-
port and said the fill section was placed there to provide a level area in
the rear yard. He compared his project to the project which had been ap-
proved for 11 Rockinghorse.
In response to a Commission question, Mr. Parkes said the barn was proposed
to be located about 33 1/2 feet from his residence.
Mr. Hughes explained that the natural slopes were defined as what exists
today, not what existed years ago.
Mrs. Bacharach asked how the plans for the house were approved with created
slopes greater than 35 percent.
Director Hightower said the house plans were approved on March 21, 1974,
prior to the present Code.
Mr. Hughes asked about 11 Rockinghorse.
Director Hightower said the Planning Commission approved the appeal of
staff's denial, after the plans were revised.
Dr. Brown concurred with the findings for denial as presented in the staff
report.
In response to questions of Mr. Hughes re the barn structure, Director High-
tower said in addition to the City requirement for a 35 -foot distance, it
was a County Health Code. She said she did not know if it allowed for devia-
tion.
Mr. Hughes said the City Council has directed a review of the entire grading
ordinance re terracing, retaining walls, etc. for recreational activities,
In view of that directive he did not see how the Commission could make any
judgement on this project tonight. He suggested tabling the item until such
time as the Ordinance Review Subcommittee meets and makes some kind of deci,
sion.
Mrs. Bacharach shared that concern but did not feel it was fair to the appli-
cant to table the request. She recommended that the Commission deny the
application since it does not meet the Code and, further, that the Commission
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recommend no appeal fee for the applicant's appeal to the City Council. She
felt the Commission must work with the Code as it is today.
Dr. Brown felt the Commission should make a decision based on the Code. He
said this project has been going on since March of last year. He said he
would rather let the Council overturn the Commission's decision than delay
a decision on the project.
Mr. Parkes did not understand how the -Commission could approve the #11
Rockinghorse project and deny his.
Mrs. Bacharach asked if the neighbors were aware of the proposed project.
Mr. Parkes said the only comments from neighbors were re the temporary
structures.
Director Hightower said there was no requirement for notifying neighbors
on grading applications.
Mr. Hughes proposed a motion, seconded by Dr. Brown, to deny the appeal of
Grading Application No. 419 based on the reasons listed in the staff report
and that no waiving of fees for appeal be recommended.
After Commission discussion the motion was amended to remove any mention of
an appeal fee waiver.
Mrs. Bacharach asked the applicant if he wished the Commission to table this
item.
Mr. Parkes said he felt it was the best project for this site.
The amended motion was as follows: To deny the appeal of Grading Applica-
tion No. 419 based on the following reasons: 1) the proposed barn is in
violation of City and County Health Code regulations as it is located less
than 35 feet from subject residence; and based on the City's Development
Code 2) proposed grading is on slopes greater than 35 percent; 3) proposed
created slopes are greater than 35 percent; 4) sideyard retaining walls ex-
ceed 42 inches; 5) proposed grading is excessive to that necessary for the
permitted primary use of the lot; and 6) proposed grading does not minimize
disturbance to the natural contours; finished contours are not reasonably
natural.
The motion as amended was unanimously carried.
Mrs. Bacharach advised of the right to appeal this decision to the City
Council within fifteen calendar days.
CODE AMENDMENT NO. 9 Director Hightower said on November 6,
Fences 1979 the City Council initiated a Code
amendment on fencing and that the Coun-
cil ordinance Review Subcommittee dis-
cussed the issue and recommended two alternatives to permit six-foot decora-
tive fences under the Minor Exception Permit procedure. She explained that
the issue was raised after several variance requests were processed for
ornamental fences which had been illegally constructed. She said several
additional variances were presently being held until this matter is decided.
She referred to the memo attached to the staff report from the Subcommittee
to the City Council and explained that the Subcommittee recommended this
type fencing to be permitted five feet from the property line if there is
a sidewalk and to the property line if there is no sidewalk. She also re-
viewed alternatives for revision to another section of the Code re overall
wall height and suggested that those approaches be discussed along with any
others the Commission might think of. Staff recommended that the public
hearing be held and continued and that the Commission discuss the issues.
Mr. Hughes said there was a decorative wall built out to the sidewalk on
Scottmist Road. He said it was recently constructed and appeared to be
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about five feet high. He said on top of each pillar was a wrought iron
light fixture with a 100 watt bulb which he felt represented a traffic
hazard.
In response to Commission questions, Director Hightower said chain link and
other wire-type fences would not be considered decorative. She said a fence
was defined as being at least 90 percent open to air and light; otherwise,
it is considered to be a wall. She said setbacks were always measured from
the right-of-way easement line. She explained that the recommendation was
the result of a compromise being made by the City Council Subcommittee.
She said one member wanted all decorative fences to be allowed at the
property line and the other wanted none to be at the property line.
Mr. Hughes was concerned about having fencing to the easement if there is
no sidewalk as it would preclude future development of sidewalks. He felt
this was inconsistent and the setback should be the same for everyone.
Mrs. Bacharach was concerned about the effect of having walls so close to
the property line.
Mr. Hughes suggested that the Commissioners look at the decorative wall on
Scottmist as he felt it would give them a feel for decorative fencing. He
said it was different and does change the character. He asked what prompted
this proposed amendment.
Director Hightower said the Grickis case. She said the City Council felt
that fence looked good and was not detrimental; they felt it was a reason-
able use of the land.
Public hearing was opened. No one wished to speak.
On motion of Dr. Brown, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and unanimously carried, the
public hearing was continued.
The Commission felt they should have more information.
Director Hightower said she would give them what she gave the Subcommittee.
Mrs. Bacharach felt it would be helpful for the Commission to have the list
of violations being held so that they could look at them.
Mr. Hughes said he would also like a list of cases which went before the
City Council so the Commission could see what the Council felt warranted
approval. He requested the addresses and decisions of each case.
Director Hightower said Councilman Dyda had suggested when the City Council
granted Hachikian's variance, that the Subcommittee look at special cases
on major highways.
Mr. Hughes said the particular fence in question was not just decorative,
but also had solid walls for privacy.
Director Hightower said they would need criteria for minor exception permit
processing.
Dr. Brown asked about regulations in other cities.
Director Hightower referred to the Rolling Hills Estates' Code section which
was attached to the staff report and said most of the other cities do not
have anything. She reviewed with the Commission some of the problems with
the Rolling Hills Estates' code.
Mr. Hughes said the ordinance had been designed to prevent terracing. He
felt the Commission needed to look at the objectives first.
Mrs. Bacharach suggested that staff compile a review of the fence history
and a list of the fences now being held in abeyance.
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Mr. Hughes suggested before the next meeting the Commission look at some
examples of decorative fencing and individually list a set of objectives;
why walls should exist, reasons for having fences of all kinds, what each
member likes or does not like about them, some criteria, a look at the
closeness of walls in relationship to their height.
COMMISSION REPORTS Dr. Brown asked about the lights at the
Art Center. He said the light shining
on Crenshaw is very bright. Director
Hightower said staff had already contacted the Center on one light. Dr.
Brown said now it was the -r lights.
Dr. Brown said the Council of Homeowners Associations apparently has worked
with the City Council subcommittee on a rewritten height ordinance. He
said he heard the Council of Homeowners Associations has rewritten the
ordinance and submitted it to the subcommittee. Director Hightower said she
thought they had been asked to bring in any suggestions, but did not know
about them rewriting the ordinance.
Dr. Brown asked about people planting trees in the public right-of-way.
Director Hightower said technically no one can put anything in the public
right-of-way without an encroachment permit from Public Works. She said,
however, that this has not really been enforced. Dr. Brown said a new
family moved in and planted about eight new t, e es,a2t Sc ttwood and Ocean -
ridge. He said this was brought up at the�Ho eowners Association meeting
last night and there was concern because the trees will grow very tall.
Director Hightower said she would report it to Public Works.
Mrs. Bacharach expressed concern that there was no requirement for notifying
neighbors on grading applications. She felt the neighbors of Mr. Parkes
would be interested in what he is proposing.
STAFF REPORTS Director Hightower said she would be
Acting City Manager for a three to
four month period and that Gary Weber
would be Acting Director of Planning during that time period.
Re the Requests for Proposals for preliminary proposals on the civic center,
she said interviews were held today and a firm was selected to be recom-
mended to the City Council at its next meeting for contract. She said the
study should begin April 1 and take about four months. She said it would
specifically concern the City Hall but also a Community Building and poten-
tial for public safety in the future. She said at this point she did not
know what kind of public involvement there would be. She said the Parks
and Recreation Committee would need to be involved and wondered if the
Commission was interested in being involved through joint meetings or public
hearings. The Commissioners felt they should participate.
Mrs. Bacharach asked about the status of the subregion study. Director
Hightower said staff received preliminary material, was not happy with it,
and shipped it back. She said this would set the schedule back a couple
weeks more.
Mr. Hughes asked about the Holtzman case. Director Hightower said the City
Attorney sent a letter to the District Attorney, who then requested the
history of the case. She said the file was received from the City Attorney
and the Code Inspector was compiling it for the District Attorney. She
said there was a new District Attorney representing the area now who happens
to live in the City. She said he would be filing for removal of the tennis
court.
Mrs. Bacharach asked about the Coastal Plan. Director Hightower said a
grant has been applied for and would be heard by the Coastal Commission on
the 18th. At this point she did not know exactly what the schedule would be.
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Dr. Brown asked if a letter was received from the Mesa Palos Verdes Home-
owners Association re the stone quarry. Director Hightower said yes, and
that the issue has been sent to the County for rehabilitation action.
Mr. Hughes asked about the use of banners, etc. at the synagogue. Director
Hightower said they have been informed previously that they need sign permits.
Mr. Hughes asked if anyone would be interested in video-taping one of the
Commission meetings. The Commission discussed this possibility.
At 10:50 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Tuesday,
March 25, 1980, at 7:30 p.m.
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