PC MINS 197711080 0 (08-)
M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Pa°1 cis Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Meeting
November 8, 1977
The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard, by Chairman McTaggart.
PRESENT: Baeharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
ABSENT: Hinchliffe
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower, Associate Planner
Gary Weber, and Assistant Planner Keith Turner.
MINUTES APPROVAL On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by
Mr. Rosenberg, and carried (with Mrs.
Bacharach abstaining), the minutes of
the meeting of October 22, 1977, were approved -as s"ubintted`: _
On motion of Mr. Rosenberg, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and carried (with Mrs.
Bacharach abstaining), the minutes of the meeting of October 25, 1977, were
approved as submitted.
Mr. Rosenberg proposed the following changes to the minutes of November 2,
1977: Section 9691.1,B, should read "...to the top of the slope of the pad
elevation of the lot above on an upsloping lot..."; and second line from
the bottom, should read "...schedule another continued public hearing.
On motion of Mrs. Bacharach, seconded by Mr. Rosenberg, and carried (with
Mr. Hughes abstaining), the minutes of the meeting of November 2, 1977, were
approved as amended above.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 33093 Mr. Weber said refined versions of the
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 29 alternative access designs had been
West of intersection of Island submitted. He discussed alternative
View and Ocean Crest #1, to widen the existing drive, and
Applicant: South Bay Engineering alternative #2, for a separate parallel
Landowner: Omer K. Tingle road. He presented pictures showing
what a 40 -foot wode drive would look
like, pointing out it would provide ample room for parking and traffic
lanes. Staff felt that given all factors, the widening concept was the
most desirable approach. Staff recommendation was that the Commission
conceptually approve widening the north leg of the existing drive and that
the entry be modified to allow for more vehicle storage.
Mr. McTaggart re -opened the public hearing.
Russ McGuire, South Bay Engineering, said at the request of the Commission
at the last meeting, he condensed the four alternatives into two alterna
tives. He discussed the proposed modifications to the gate and the
retaining wall proposed as part of alternative 2. He said because of the
opposition of the Seagate residents, the applicant wished to go with the
separate access route. He said the increase in grading was due to the
soils report.
Mr. Rosenberg said he would like to see a cross section showing the
existing and proposed slopes, the roadway, and the retaining wall.
Don Galbraith, 6542 Ocean Crest Drive, president of the Seagate Homeowners
Association, expressed opposition to widening the road, as the additional
vehicles would add to the congestion and noise. He said he saw no reason
to extend the gate for car storage of 4-6 cars. He said for security
reasons they did not wish the gate to be moved. He felt more than one
lane of traffic through the gate would create problems.
Mr. Hughes said the Commission had received a great deal of testimony re
how narrow the existing street is, and the problem of congestion at the
gate. He explained that widening the street would alleviate the existing
problems by allowing for additional parking, ease of access, etc. He
pointed out that noise from additional traffic would exist with the
parallel road also, as the drives would only be five feet apart.
Mr. Galbraith felt the speed of traffic would increase if the road was
widened. He said congestion at the gate was a rare occurrence, that there
were no more than 3-4 cars involved when there was a problem, and that the
main cause for any congestion was a guest coming through the gate who was
not familiar with the procedure. He did not feel this represented a
problem, as it did not occur on a day-to-day basis.
Mr. McTaggart felt 3-4 cars at the gate would completely block the road.
He also felt that a separate access would concentrate noise and traffic on
the north side.
Frances Marks, Seagate resident, said she was concerned about safety with
the increase in vehicles. She was in favor of separate access.
Alberta Bunker, manager of Seagate, said she was opposed to widening the
street, and that she has never seen traffic congestion at the gate. She
wished the gate to remain where it is for aesthetic �reasbns___as- well
as security and privacy.
Fay Fowler, 6542 Ocean Crest, said Mr. Galbraith stated the feelings of
300 residents of Seagate who were unable to be present this evening.
Jack Trembler asked how widening the road would alleviate any of the problems.
Mr. Hughes said a lot of the testimony received concerned the difficulty
with traffic getting through the gate, that widening the road would there-
fore help the existing residents, and that the proposed project consisted
of only 25 additional units.
Burt Arga, 6542 Ocean Crest, said a very small portion of the existing
traffic goes past the end buildings. He was opposed to widening the road
as he felt the further away the traffic was, the better for the residents
of the end buildings.
Mrs. O"Jerman, Seagate, concurred with the previous speakers.
Robert Spray, Seagate, also concurred and said security was a factor when
he purchased his home.
On motion of Mr. Rosenberg, seconded by Mrs. Bacharach, and unanimously
carried, the public hearing was continued to a future date.
Mrs. Bacharach felt the speed on a parallel road would increase the noise.
Mr. Hughes concurred and felt a parallel road contradicted everything the
Commission has tried to do in the past. He felt widening the road would
resolve a great deal of the existing problems. He also felt from a
planning and practical standpoint, a parallel road would be inappropriate.
Mr. Rosenberg said he had been in favor of an alternate road but was
dissatisfied looking at the proposals presented tonight. He said he did
not like either approach and felt that all of the alternatives have not
been analyzed.
P.C. MINUTES -2- 11/8/77
Mr. McTaggart said that although at the last meeting he expressed a desire
not to force the Seagate residents to share the road, he still felt the
widening process would be the best plan. He said it would r.edUo
��e the noise
and pollution on the north side and would be the safest and sanest approach.
Mrs. Bacharach felt widening the road would be best with the addition of a
sidewalk and perhaps benches for pedestrian traffic. She was concerned
about moving the gate; however, as she did not wish to see the loss of
security. 1
Mr. Rosenberg felt most of the traffic problem existed on the north road
and suggested that the applicant look into the continuation of the road,
to be one-way in a counter -clockwise direction. There was a consensus
that this approach should be looked into.
There was also a consensus that the upper portion of the development take
its access off Island View.
The applicant agreed to explore alternatives re the gate, with perhaps a
visitor lane on the inside to alleviate the congestion. He further agreed
to concrete curbing and to show what the impact of the grading would be
with sidewalks on the inside lane and on the outside lane.
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 7559 Mr. Weber said the draft resolution and
West end of Tarragon Road conditions had been prepared for the
Applicant: Herbert Angel Commission's review, and that staff
recommended adoption of the resolution.
After a brief discussion, Mr. Hughes proposed a motion, seconded by Mrs.
Bacharach, to adopt Resolution P.C. NO. 77-21, approving Tentative Parcel
Map No. 7559 subject to the conditions in Exhibit "A", as presented in
the agenda packet.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Bacharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
NOES: None
ABSENT: Hinchliffe
At 9:23 p.m. a brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 9:32 p.m.
with the same members present.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 30 Mr. Weber said the applicant submitted
VARIANCE NO. 15 revised plans which included increase
Crestridge Road of the area abutting the parking lot
Applicant: Merril Bickmore for screening (thereby eliminating the
Landowner: The Church of Jesus need for that portion of the variance);
Christ of the Latter Day Saints an increase in parking area landscaping
(which would meet the required 5% with
the elimination of additional parking space); reduction in parking spaces
(which staff considers adequate); building height (which staff has de-
termined after review of a detailed analysis as not to exceed the Code
requirement); steeple height (staff provided a chart concerning the
proposed steeple height to those of existing religious facilities on
Crestridge); grading (which will need the Commission's evaluation); and
lighting (which the applicant would present tonight). Staff recommends
approval of the conditional use permit and variance subject to the
conditions attached to the draft resolution. He suggested amending
condition no. 4 of Exhibit "A" to require the posting of a bond/cash deposit
for the sidewalk construction, road improvements, etc., to be pursuant to
the street standards; said deposit to be reimbursed if not used within a
certain period of time.
P.C. MINUTES -3- 11/8/77
In response to a Commission question, Mr. Weber said there was 5,067 square
feet of landscaping proposed, but that -an additional 168 square feet was
necessary to meet the 5% requirement.
Reed Lawrence, architect, said the proposed light standards were 18 feet
high and explained the lighting plan. He said the lighting was necessary
for safety and security reasons.
The -Commission was concerned about light spilling over onto someone else's
property.
Director Hightower said it was common practice for lighting fixtures to be
no higher than 12 feet.
Mr. Rosenberg suggested looking into ground level lighting.
Dr. Harvey Brown, 29234 Beachside Drive, President of the Mesa Palos Verdes
Homeowners Association, expressed concern about the steeple height and
the lighting plan.
Mr. Weber said the spire was the only portion of the steeple which would
extend above the horizon.
Mr. McTaggart did not feel 18 -foot lighting fixtures were necessary.
Mr. Hughes concurred and felt that residential lighting standards which
allow for 10 -foot high lighting fixtures should be complied with as the
property abuts residential properties. The other Commissioners concurred.
Director Hightower pointed out if the fixtures are reduced in height, it
may be necessary to increase the number of fixtures in order to provide
the necessary light.
It was the consensus of the Commission that ground level lighting be used
in the rear.
The applicant agreed to these changes.
It was the consensus of the Commission to amend condition no. 4. as
suggested by staff with a three-year time limit. Condition no. 5 should be
added stating that the height of the lighting fixtures shall not exceed ten
feet; the fixtures shall be fully shielded; and only ground level lighting
shall be used along the rear of the building.
Mr. Rosenberg proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. Hughes, to adopt Resolution
P.C. No. 77-22, approving Conditional Use Permit No. 30 and Variance No.
15 for the construction of a religious facility subject to the conditions
in Exhibit "A", as amended tonight.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Bacharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
NOES: None
ABSENT: Hinchliffe
HEIGHT VARIATION NO. 72 APPEAL Mr. Turner reviewed the proji.ect and
5909 Waukesha said staff denied the request because
Applicant: Mr. & Mrs. T.' Thorsen it was determined that the project
'would obstruct views from at least three
properties. He said at the time of!ihis decision, view obstruction was the
only finding being applied to projects. Since the change in ruling at
the Council meeting of November 1, all of the findings must be applied as
worded in the Code. Staff recommended that the Commission uphold the staff
decision based on view obstruction and that the cumulative effect would
adversely affect the neighborhood view.
Mr. McTaggart asked if there was anything in writing from the City
Attorney re the ruling of the City Council, and requested same.
P.C. Minutes -4- 11/8/77
Thomas Thorsen, applicant, said the view obstruction would be minimal, and
felt each case should be judged on its own merits.
The following people spoke in opposition to the project: Alfred Smith,
5903 Finecrest Drive; Gerald Howard, 5857 Finecrest Drive; Russ Harrison,
5915 Finecrest; Lucian Rochte, 5925 Finecrest, and Ms. Driscoll, 5911
Finecrest. Their main concern was the view obstruction.
The public participation was closed.
Mr. Hughes said under the current guidelines of the Council, he was unable
to make findings A, B, and C in Section 9113 of the Development Code. The
other Commissioners concurred.
Mr. Rosenberg proposed a motion, seconded by Mr. Hughes, to deny the appeal of
the staff decision, thereby denying Height Variation No. 72, based on the
inability of the commission ommibsibh to meet the above stated findings.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Bacharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
NOES: None
ABSENT: Hinchliffe
Mr. McTaggart advised the applicant of his right to appeal within fifteen
calendar days of this decision.
Director Hightower said staff would be submitting the guidelines for the
review of the City Attorney, City Council and Planning Commission.
Councilman Dyda briefly discussed with the Commission his reasons for
xyotkgq, to change the ruling concerning Height Variation criteria.
OTHER MATTERS Re the letter ori driveway access,
Director Hightower said the Council
sent this to the Commission for study and recommendation, as they are
seeking to develop guidelines for future cases.
Mrs. Bacharach requested a copy of the Council minutes prior to the
Commission's review of this item.
A meeting on the tree trimming -ordinance was scheduled for November 16. At
that time the Cl-ion-iion will also discuss driveway access, per the Council's
request.
ADJOURNMENT At 11:20 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Wednesday,
November 16, 1977, at 7:30 p.m.