PC MINS 19770531M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Special Adjourned Meeting
May 31, 1977
The meeting was called to order at 7:32 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT: Bacharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
ABSENT: Blue
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower and City Attorney
Pat Coughlan.
Mr. McTaggart announced that Mr. Blue was unable to attend tonight's meet-
ing because he is in the hospital.
ANTENNAS -T 14iAi
Mr. McTaggart opened the public hear-
ing and called for those --wishing to
speak in favor.
Kenneth D. Edwards, 6002 Flambeau, president of the Amateur Radio Club,
felt the proposed changes to the ordinance were fair and just and for the
best interest of everyone, as it provides a rational way to resolve con-
flicting rights. He said the staff and Commission have received input
from all concerned parties. He reviewed the limits set by the other three
peninsula cities, indicating that this proposed ordinance was far more
restrictive.
Paul H. Weisz, 32365 Phantom Drive, supported the ordinance because it
protects everyone on a case-by-case basis and is dealing with differences
of near neighbors. He wondered if the opposing homeowners associations
have polled their members. He'felt it was against the constitution for a
group to dictate its will on others.
Victor M. White, 28418 Meadowmist Dtive, member of Stoneridge Palos Verdes
Homeowners Association, said he was not an amateur radio operator, but
believed in the right of everyone to use their property. He felt the pro-
posed ordinance was fair to the operators and protects the health and
safety of all citizens.
Mr. McTaggart called for those wishing to speak in opposition.
Patrick Hanlon, 3139 Dianora, said many people worked long and hard for
the privilege of local control and that this privilege is endangered by
the proposed ordinance. He said the ordinance vias in conflict with the
General Plan which calls for undergrounding of utilities. He felt any
hobby should have limitations and pointed out that the City limits the
animals permitted to 4-H groups, and does not permit rifle ranges, etc.
He said there is no freedom without limitations.
DeDe Hicks, 6120 Scotmist, president of the Stoneridge Palos Verdes Home-
owners Association, reviewed the information she received from the other
peninsula cities, which revealed stricter limits than those proposed in
this ordinance. She further reviewed the regulations of twelve other
cities and submitted copies of all information to the Commission.
Russell Schweiger, 30828 Via La Cresta, presented slides showing antennas
at various locations of the City.
Ralph C. Welch, 2105 Daladier Drive, Kings View Property Owners Associa-
tion, said the proposed ordinance was inadequate and that the City was
incorporated for the preservation and improvement of the aesthetic quali-
ties. He felt there should be limits on the number of antennas, the height,
the location ori the property, etc. He submitted a list of suggested res-
trictions to the Commission.
Elza Cortes, 29681 Highpoint Cove, said the Homeowners Association Council
was not organized for the purpose of working against this ordinance, but
that this is one of their concerns. She said they intended to work with
the City Council and the Commission and that most of the association presi-
dents were in agreement. She did not feel this ordinance reflects the
views of the 43,000 residents in the City. She said she realized some of
the operators have done a lot of good, but felt the ordinance is going
against what the undergrounding is doing. She felt the antennas would de-
crease the value of the homes around them. She also requested a longer
notification period.
Sheila Hoff, 28205 Ambergate, said the proposed ordinance is in conflict
with the General Plan and reviewed several sections of the Plan in which
she felt there was conflict. Re the crank -down type antennas, she felt
it would be difficult to enforce, and that the simpler the ordinance, the
better.
Bob Constant, 28871 Blythewood, said during the heavy rain and winds, his
neighbor's antenna fell down on his roof. He hoped the antenna ordinance
would contain safety provisions; expressed concern about interference to
the neighbors TV reception, etc.; felt the antennas should be a safe dis-
tance from the neighboring homes because of the radio waves; and was con-
cerned about the aesthetics and view blockage.
Ajazc�
In response to a citizen question, City Attorney Coughlan said the safety
provisions are provided by the Uniform Building Code which was adopted by
the City.
Ira Gura, 6203 Moongate Drive, was also concerned about TV interference
and said he would like some local control.
Linda Broder, 26547 Deepbrook Drive, said the General Plan stresses pre-
servation of views. She felt the City should be keeping theVptal environ-
ment.
Betsy Kelly, 6611 Vallon Drive, said
Monaco Homeowners Association. She
radio operators love their hobbies,
imposed on the other neighbors. She
be put to referendum.
City Attorney Coughlan said yes.
her husband was vice-president of the
said she recognized the fact that the
but did not feel this hobby should be
asked if this type of ordinance could
Lois LaRue, 3136 Barkentine Road, said she was also opposed.
RECESS
At 8:57 p.m. a brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 9:07 p.m.
with the same members present.
Mr. McTaggart asked if anyone wished to rebut.
Mr. Weisz commented on the differences between the findings that he and
Mrs. Hicks obtained from the other peninsula cities, and asked staff to
check into this and report to the Commission. Re the other twelve cities
cited, he felt he could list twelve cities less restrictive. Re Mr.
Schweiger's slide presentation, he said most of the antennas shown would
require a conditional use permit. He said Mr. Welch's point about the
safety of antenna construction was well taken, but is already covered by
the County building code. Re Mrs. Hoff's comments addressing philosophy
rather than specifics, the more specific an ordinance, the easier it is
for the enforcement agency. Re Mrs. Cortes' comments about the Homeowners
Association Advisory Council, he said it does not represent the view of
the homeowners. Re Mrs. Broder's comments, he said rights are the matter
being considered. Re Mrs. Kelly's comments, he felt each case should be
between the applicant and near neighbors. Re Mr. Gura and the interference
problem, he said the problem is with the equipment which intercepts it,
rather than the HAMS.
Richard C. Mills, 26760 Shadow Wood,
complained about his 50 -foot antenna,
have risen since 1965.
said none of his neighbors have ever
and related how the property values
P.C. MINUTES -2- 5/31/77
John Shepherd, 6002 Flambeau, said one of the slides shown was of his
antenna, and that the picture was taken at a very unfavorable position.
He said the interference problem cannot be solved with an antenna ordin-
a,nce except possibly by the placement of the antenna.
City Attorney Coughlan said in his opinion 1) the policy guidelines set
forth in the General Plan are judgmental and both the Commission and the
Council will have to consider those guidelines; 2) the area of safety is
covered by the Uniform Building Code, and if there is any further concern,
changes should be recommended to that Code; 3) the City cannot ban radios
because of interference, that there are solutions such as filters which
can be purchased; 4) and that the Commission and Council can regulate
amateur antennas, but cannot prohibit them. He said the goal is to
develop an ordinance that reasonably regulates antennas in the community.
In response to a citizen question re conflict of interest, City Attorney
Coughlan said he had heard some concerns that one of the Commissioners is
a HAM radio operator and two others are CB operators. He said a conflict
would be present if there were a financial interest. He said this is a
new ordinance and a public hearing and that Mrs. Bacharach was therefore
able to vote on the -issue. From a legal standpoint, he would not dis-
qualify any member of the Commission based on the information he has at
this time.
In response to another citizen question, Director Hightower said the
existing Code provisions were not adopted from the original County Code,
which barely regulated antennas.
John Cashin, 5724 Amory, said he chose his site because it would minimize
the view of his antenna and he erected a minimum height arrangement. Re
tndergrounding, he pointed out that street lights do not work underground,
and neither do HAM radio antennas. He also said the lower the antenna,
the more interference it creates. The higher antennas cause less inter-
ference and use less power to operate.
Ronald Terry, 5541 Mistridge, said his tower is motorized and can be
moved up and down as needed. He pointed out that the arrays are more con-
spicuous closer to the ground than they are higher up. He said he checked
with his neighbors to see if there were any problems.
John Alexander, 28403 Covecrest, said the number of amateur radio antennas
in 1970 was 164 and in 1976 was 181, and that during those years the popu-
lation has increased from 30,000 to 42,000. He felt it was illogical to
expect the number of antennas would increase greatly under a more restric-
tive ordinance than the County had.
David Maltby, 29121 Indian Valley Road, said this ordinance treats view
obstruction more practically and deals with it on an individual basis with
location and height limits.
Brian Tilley, 29026 Indian Valley Road, said Cable TV is too costly and
therefore will not eliminate TV antennas.
John Daly, 30753 Ganado Drive, felt getting along with your neighbors was
the basic issue, and that he was in -favor of this ordinance, as it reflects
the proper vehicle for allowing antennas. He said there are groups offer-
ing screening for stereos, TVs, etc., at a minimal cost and sometimes free
of charge.
Marion A. Mason, 5 Bridle Lane, said the existing antennas will not be
taken down, and the only benefit would be to the children of those oppos-
ing the ordinance.
11&n ny"g-d-o-co
Peter Va- Hagen, 28410 Mist Drive, said he has read the ordinance
thoroughly and feels it is a very fair and just ordinance.
Jim Hill, 26107 Basswood, said no one ever complained about his tower and
that property values have not been affected.
Kenneth Edwards, 6002 Flambeau, said the percentage of antennas is very
small and that many people were quite surprised to notice the antennas in
the slides, as they had never noticed them when driving around the City.
He said his neighbors have never experienced a problem with interference.
P.C. MINUTES -3- 5/31/77
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Sam La Lande, 28031 Acana Road, made an observation re radiation damage by
pointing out all the people living next to KNX in Torrance which has a
much higher level of power.
Mr. McTaggart called for anyone wishing to rebut among those opposing.
Mr. Hanlon said/\t4+e-t-ha-,.-e had ma y meetings which clearly showed that the
members represented the associations.
Mrs. Hicks said even though some other cities do not have antenna ordin-
ances, they do have antenna regulations. She said the majority of the
people present are opposed and do not want to live near large antennas.
She said the proposed ordinance does not have a provision for denial when
the neighbors object.
Mrs. Cortes said the association presidents are elected and do represent
the views of the association.
Elaine Harold, 6233 Moonridge, said Mrs. Hicks does represent their asso-
ciation. Re property values, she suggested that an unbiased board of
realtors evaluate the property to see if there is an effect from a neigh-
boring antenna.
Russell Schweiger said in taking the pictures he tried to be very objec-
tive and that the purpose was to demonstrate that they do exist. He said
he would submit copies of the photos and corresponding addresses, and
suggested that the Commission inspect the sites.
Mr. Welch said he was voted as president of his association again, and
felt Citizen Ban Radios need control also.
Don Klesges, 6221 Moongate Drive, said he was opposed to the ordinance but
was not opposed to antennas. He felt everyone was entitled to pursue
their hobbies, but that no one can construct something on his property
which would be detrimental to the neighboring properties. He said the
question was not whether to allow antennas or not, but rather to allow
the proliferation of more unsightly antennas.
Victor Cabas, 31021 Marne, president of the Monaco Homeowners As191C_ . i n,
said he has been president for three years and has Faade-lion--:4
members of his associatione.4-0 4d
Agnes Moss, 6405 Chartres Drive, said in reviewing the proposed tree ordi-
nance, it suggests the trees not be taller than the houses. She suggested
a citizen committee also be formed for handling antennas.
Joe Saporito, 5517 Seaside Heights, said it was not clear how the antennas
would be measured.
Dick Batt, 6028 Scotmist, was concerned about view obstruction. He said
no one was attempting to prevent anyone from engaging in their hobby.
In response to a citizen question re which members of the Commission have
been or are now radio operators, Mr. McTaggart said he has an FCC license
and operates a CB radio in his vehicles, but has not used a base station
because it interferes with the stereo of his neighbor. He said there have
been many changes to the ordinance. He added that the Commission has
already asked that all notifications be increased to fifteen calendar days.
le4lltl
J_14� -
Mr. Hughes said he was a *eGeqvA�� 'amateur operator but did not feel the
fact that he holds licenses should have any bearing on his voting on the
matter.
Dr. Harvey Brown, Mesa Homeowners Association president, wondered if it
was possible for the Commission to discuss the issues with one or two
members of each side of the issue to review the ordinance point by point
and possibly iron out the differences.
In response to a citizen question, City Attorney Coughlan said Section
9614 B 2 (d) of the proposed ordinance should be changed to reflect that
the antenna permit shall go only to the person obtaining the permit.
P.C. MINUTES -4- 5/31/77
Mr. Cashin said, re the suggestion of both sides meeting with the Commis-
sion to discuss the issues, that it was not clear to him -that -there was a
unified position on each side.
Mr. McTaggart explained that the Commission asked for public input from
all interested parties because everyone has somewhat differing views.
City Attorney Coughlan said the Commission should take into consideration
At its next work session all that was heard tonight, and do further work
on the ordinance.
ADJOURNMENT
At 11:05 p.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn the meeting to
Monday, June 6, 1977, at 7:30 p.m.
P.C. MINUTES -5- 5/31/77