PC MINS 19770524M I N U T E S
City of Rancho Palos Verdes
Planning Commission
Regular Adjourned Meeting
May 24, 1977
The meeting was called to order at 7:38 p.m. in the City Council Chambers,
30942 Hawthorne Boulevard.
PRESENT: Bacharach, Blue, Hughes, Rosenberg (arrived late), and
McTaggart
ABSENT: None
Also present were Director of Planning Sharon Hightower, Associate Planner
Gary Weber, and Assistant Planner Keith Turner.
MINUTES APPROVAL
The minutes of May 5, 1977, were held
over to the end of the meeting.
On motion of Mr. Blue, seconded by Mrs. Bacharach, and unanimously carried,
the minutes of the meeting of May 10, 1977, were approved as submitted.
On motion of Mrs. Bacharach, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and unanimously car-
ried, the minutes of May 17, 1977, were approved as submitted.
COMMUNICATIONS Mr. McTaggart said although the public
hearing on the Coastal Plan has been
closed, the Commission was still re-
viewing it, and there were some speakers tonight on the subject.
Mrs. Ivar Gustayson suggested that the bluff edge be declared open land
and the farmers use that area. She felt the zoning should be compatible
with the existing deed restrictions, and that there has been one -acre
zoning for over twenty years in Subregion No. 1.
Eleanor Wiedman felt there should be a continuity along the coastline with
agricultural areas. She also expressed concern about sight lines to the
ocean and said view maintenance was very important.
GRADING APPLICATION NO. 152 Director Hightower said the applicant
7447 Via Lorado has requested this item be tabled as
Applicant: E. & B. Slauta he is in the process of revising his
plans.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mr. Blue, and unanimously carried,
Grading Application No. 152 was tabled until such time as the revised
plans are submitted.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 32991
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 23
Seacliff Hills
Applicant: Western America Dev.
Corp. for Palos Verdes Prop.
is there anything indicating it is
tion from the applicant and perhaps
Mr. Weber stated re the density con ---
cern, the City Attorney said if the
area is found to be clearly undevelop-
able, no density credit should be
given. Mr. Weber said although there
4Vas no statement which indicates
clearly undevelopable land, neither
developable. He suggested more informa-
a written statement from the geologist.
Re the roadway crossing a portion of
Attorney felt if the County -Engineer
City could act in good faith and not
concerns were directly involved with
has revised the plan and although he
been able to review it.
the slide, Mr. Weber said the.City
indicates it should not be done, the
permit it. He said most of the other
the density. He said the applicant
received a copy of it, he has not yet
Re the roadway, Mr. McTaggart asked if it mattered whether it was a public
or private road. Director Hightower said it makes no difference, and that
it clearly depends upon the -report of the geologist.
Don Dawson, South Bay Engineering, discussed the process used to arrive at
the density figure, trade-offs, archaeology, and view functions.
Ron McAlpin, South Bay Engineering, said in response to the direction from
the Commission at the last meeting, the plans have been revised: reducing
the number of lots from 93 to 76; and modifying the turn -around at the end
of the cul-de-sac. Re the archaeological sites, the utility poles have
been moved out of the way, and the CC&Rs would restrict any disturbance of
the sites for a fixed amount of time (probably two years from the date of
recording the map). He said in order to reduce the slopes of the streets,
they have been relocated or -.slightly repositioned and the grading has been
reduced. They have reduced the slopes and the length of the streets with
steep slopes and have tried to keep them at 100; they have also worked on
the safety of the intersections. He said due to the change in area #3,
one of the streets has one-half as many lots now. He said some of the
streets in the City are 15% and that has been a standard for some time.
He said Verde Ridge is a through street and carries a lot of traffic. He
explained that "F" Street is 320 feet long with a 14% slope and serves
twenty lots. He further said they have increased the width of all those
streets steeper than 10% and that there will be no bottlenecks.
Russ McGuire, South Bay Engineering, distributed pictures to the Commission,
and said they have improved the characteristics of the intersections and
lots. He further discussed the various streets and pointed out that the
striping and islands would be painted rather than a raised curb.
Mr. Hughes expressed concern about the gates and lack of turn around for
visitors finding no one at home, etc. He further expressed concern about
the need for a lane to accommodate people turning left out of the tract,
particularly in the morning hours. He felt it was hazardous to have to
turn right into a line of traffic and suggested a merger lane.
Re the driveway coming right onto an arterial street, Mr. McTaggart was
concerned that this proposal was contrary to the General Plan.
Mr. Hughes wondered if it would be appropriate to request that the City
Council send this before the Traffic Committee for review.
Mr. McAlpin said there are streets, utilities, etc., on the ancient slide
area now.
Mr. Dawson said it is possible to obtain additional data which the County
needs re the geological condition; however, it is very expensive.
Mr. Blue left at 9:00 p.m.
Jack Eagan, geologist, said the area appears stable right now as it is not
moving, but the definition of stability is if the forces resisting move-
ment are 1, times those forces trying to produce movement. He said the
best data they have shows the last movement was 16,000 years ago. He
said the project's utilities have been relocated so as not to be in the
slide area, and that the drainage will be improved. He said the same
safety standards applied to a home do not apply to a street, and he be-
lieved the slide area was stable for the -intended use as an access road.
Mr. Rosenberg arrived at 9:20 p.m.
Mr. Hughes said the staff report of May 10 indicates a report by Envicom,
saying there was a recent land slide.
Mr. Eagan said this concerned them and he spoke to Mr. Curtis of Envicom.
He said all of the area has a lot of vegetation and no cracks and does
not indicate a movement, perhaps some settlement.
Mr. Rosenberg said there were two homeowners, Mr. Wilkeson and Mr. Lamb,
who have experienced cracks recently. He further said that one of the
reasons the Palos Verdes Drive East project was abandoned by the County
was the fear of disturbing anything and causing further movement.
P.C. MINUTES -2- 5/24/77
+r i
Mr. Eagan felt what they were proposing was not of that magnitude, and
they are doing minimum grading. He asked if there was anyone knowledgable
from a professional standpoint who can say there has been land slide move-
ment.
Mr. Hughes asked about the tests to establish whether the 12 to 1 safety
factor is met. Mr. Eagan discussed this and said the cost is about
$100,000.
Mr. Dawson discussed view problems which were brought up at the last
meeting and possible solutions of moving houses to a different location
and redesigning.
RECESS
At 9:53 p.m. A -brief recess was called.
The meeting reconvened at 10:01 p.m.
with the same members present.
Howard Leech, architect, said every room in every house would have a view;
that they tried to combine some of the old world charm with the new con-
veniences; that the homes step down the slope rather than sit on d filled
pad; are done in a split level design; from 3000 to 4000 sqaure feet; all
have three -car garages; there are six basic floor plans and after varia-
tions, each home should be different. He showed the footprint of each
house, and said that the plans will have to be adjusted since they were
based on 93 homes. He discussed the layout of the three homes on the
single driveway. !v
Dick Ohlemacher,Awanted to be able to see the final material prior to its
approval. He also asked about renotification.
Mr. McTaggart explained that what is submitted as a final plan may be
changed at the meeting, and that there is no procedure for renotification.
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Mr. n,��ler said he would like to see the landscape plan as the trees
planted on the rear portion of the lots could affect the view of the homes
on Sea Raven.
Mr. McTaggart said at;this stage the applicant should not be required to
submit a landscaping plan since the number of -lots has not yet been deter-
mined.
Jill Ridgeway, 3420 Gulfcrest Drive, said during a geology tour of the ,
peninsula, her college professor commented on the slide area and wondered
if that would be considered a professional opinion.
Mr. McTaggart continued the public hearing -to the next -regular meeting.
During Commission discussion, Mr. Hughes said he had several areas of
concern, including: 1) the intersections and left turn pockets exiting
onto the drives; he felt Director Hightower should ask the Council to have
the Traffic Committee review this; 2) the 1.5 safety factor ---if the County
Engineer won't approve the road, how can the Commission approve it; and
3) the driveway to the three homes presents hazards in access to the drive.
Mr. McTaggart said he was also concerned about the road crossing the slide
area and access.
Mrs. Bacharach expressed concern about the archaeological sites.
Mr. Rosenberg felt there were at least three separate developments tied
together with a common traffic problem and miles of open space with no
relationship to the people living there. He suggested that staff look at
this as three separate projects and run a standard analysis as to build-
able acreage and the density which would result. He suggested Palos
Verdes Drive East and the canyon as dividing lines.
There was a concensus among the Commissioners that staff do this. They
will decide how to approach the density issue after seeing the new staff
report. A consensus was reached that the land slide area and the extreme
slopes should not be used for development credit, but should not be ex-
cluded as part of particular lots.
P.C. MINUTES -3- 5/24/77
Mr. Rosenberg said he would like to see a copy of the geological report
that was filed with the County.
Mr. Weber asked what the Commission felt would be an acceptable slope on
streets.
Mr. McTaggart said he could not make a decision at this time on how much
is good.
Mr. McGuire said the short runs are 14% and the rest are way down. He
said there were no roads at 15% proposed now. He further said it re-
quired 35-40% more grading to decrease the slopes from 15% to 140.
It was the consensus of the Commission to send the matter of access to the
drives to the Traffic Committee, as previously mentioned by Mr. Hughes.
Mr. McTaggart said he was uncomfortable with placing the burden of main-
tenance for weed abatement and the public safety along a public road upon
people who do not live adjacent to that road.
Mr. McGuire said it could be divided into separate homeowners associations.
The discussion was closed and the item was continued to the next regular
meeting.
RECESS
At 11:10 p.m. a brief recess was
called. The meeting reconvened at
11:15 p.m. with the same members
present.
GRADING APPLICATION NO. 179 Mr. Turner said the applicant was re-
Middlecrest Road (Lot 10, Tract questing approval for the grading of
#23399) 1540 cubic yards for the construction
Applicant: Charles Lamoreaux of a single family house, lengthly
driveway/turn-around area and rear
yard pool area. He said the 63% em-
bankment, a street frontage of 13.72 feet, and a total average slope of
34.5% makes development of this lot extremely difficult. He reviewed the
Code criteria, and said the Code would allow for the grading of 13,138
square feet. The applicant is proposing to grade 14,822 square feet, or
an overage of 1684 square feet. He said the overall driveway slope is
21.5% and that matching the adjacent driveway approach takes advantage of
an existing cut on one side. Staff recommendation is for approval subject
to conditions as listed in the staff report.
Dan Whitney, architect, said it was a difficult lot and it seems this is
the only way to handle development. He said efforts were made to utilize
other means.
Public participation was closed.
After a brief discussion, Mr. Rosenberg proposed a motion, seconded by
Mr. Hughes, to approve Grading Application No. 179, subject to the condi-
tion that a landscape and irrigation plan is submitted -and approved by
the Director of Planning.
Roll call vote was as follows:
AYES: Bacharach, Hughes, Rosenberg, McTaggart
NOES: None
ABSENT: Blue
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP NO. 33034 Mr. Weber explained that the applicant
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 24 requests approval to subdivide a 20+
End of Calle de Suenos acre site into a fifteen -lot residen-
Applicant: Herbert Angel (for tial planned development for .fourteen
Palos Verdes Properties) detached single family homes, common
open space, recreational facilities,
private road and installation of sewers,
drainage facilities and underground utilities, to be located immediately
P.C. MINUTES -4- 5/24/77
t
south of the current termination of Calle de Suenos. He described the
surrounding properties, topographic conditions and zoning; said the average
lot size is about 33,200 square feet; the project will include a swimming
pool, tennis court, cabana, picnic area, open play area, dogging trail, and
natural and induced vegetation. He said the adjustment of Open Space
Hazard District boundary lines indicates only eleven dwelling units would
be allowed. He discussed the overlay control districts and said staff is
in the process of re-evaluation. He further discussed the access, in-
cluding emergency and pedestrian access, saying that the developer has
been cooperative on both of these issues. He discussed grading for the
road and the common area improvements, noting that no detailed grading
plan has been submitted yet.
Mr. Hughes asked if the Fire Department has a limit on the number of homes
which may be placed on a single access road.
Mr. Weber said the Fire Department made no mention of that in their com-
munication to the City, but that he would check into it.
Herb Angel, 4373 Dauntless, said he has been in communication with the
Fire Department and they indicated this proposal would better the -situa-
tion. He said he was not aware until yesterday that there was a difference
in the density count. He suggested meeting with the staff to review this.
Barr Ruston, 30009 Avenida Elegante, presented a prepared statement for
the Commission in opposition of the project. His main concerns were the
impact on the traffic and safety conditions on Crest Road; that the pro-
ject would preclude the mitigations of existing traffic and safety condi-
tions on Crest Road; and the serious deficiencies existing in the EIR in
the areas of traffic, public safety, fiscal, neighbor relations, and al-
ternatives. Copies of this statement were distributed to the Commission
and staff members.
Howard Culver, 30525 Camino Porvenir, said there was no good access to
the school and he discussed the possibility of an easement. He also ex-
pressed concern about the additional traffic on Crest Road. He suggested
that notification of the next meeting be sent to people up and down Crest.
Mr. Angel said the recreational area and cul-de-sac would be covered in
the CC&Rs as a deed restriction that runs with the land. He said there
was an 18 -foot easement in the lower left-hand corner for access to the
schools, that this was done at the neighbors' request. Re the continua-
tion of Calle de Suenos to Hawthorne Boulevard, he said it was against
the zoning code to build a road through an Open Space Hazard area. He
said the cul-de-sac and 30 -foot access lot were done in cooperation with
the County Fire Marshall. He pointed out that although they are proposing
an easement for the school, easements would need to be obtained through
other properties as well.
Mr. Rosenberg left at 11:55 p.m.
Gary Schauman, president of the Monte Verde Homeowners Association, dis-
cussed sections of the EIR, said he objected to the inadequacy of the
report, and the Association questions the validity of it.
Bill Mulligan, 30520 Camino Porvenir, said there are a lot of children
already and 13-14 more homes were not necessary. He also was concerned
about the view impact and the number of guests who would be using the
recreational facilities.
Mr. Weber said the Public Works Director indicated he has received per-
mission for an access easement through one of the -lots below.
Mr. McTaggart continued the public hearing.
Mr. Hughes asked if staff has looked at alternate proposals of the con-
tinuation of Crest towards Hawthorne Boulevard.
Mr. Weber said he has given it a cursory analysis, but did not get into
the grading al all.
Mrs. Bacharach said she would like a more detailed study.
P.C. MINUTES -5- 5/24/77
On motion of Mrs. Bacharach, seconded by Mr. Hughes, and unanimously car-
ried, this item was continued to the next meeting.
CODE AMENDMENT NO. 4 Mr. McTaggart opened the public hear -
Miscellaneous Text Revisions ing, and Director Hightower said she
wished to add something for clarifi-
cation re the open space hazard zone.
She said it would be very brief, but that she needs to write it.
On motion of Mr. Hughes, seconded by Mrs. Bacharach, and unanimously car-
ried, this item and the hearing were continued until the next regular
meeting to be placed as item A. under Old Business.
STAFF REPORTS Director Hightower said the conference
report forms which were distributed
tonight need to be filled out and sub-
mitted, and reminded the Commission that they must make a brief evaluation
of the conference they will attend June 2 and 3. She said she would have
per them checks for them by Thursday.
Director Hightower said she had recommended for the budget for conferences
the amount of $3000 for the five Commissioners to attend the League annual
and Planning Commission conferences. She said both are up north this year.
COMMISSION REPORTS
aftermath of the antenna ordinance.
Mr. McTaggart asked about the sche-
dule for the proposed grading and
tree trimming ordinances and the
Director Hightower said the Commission is scheduled through the 9th of
June already and should perhaps schedule other work sessions at that time,.
Mr. Hughes said he had arranged theAocean field trip/!on a 46 -foot cabin
cruiser to leave at 9:00 a.m. from King Harbor, but has no definite date
yet. He said the 12th of June would be good, and that it would -take about
four hours at least.
Director Hightower said the City Attorney would attend the public hearing
on the Antenna Ordinance on the 31st of May, and the 9th of June.
ADJOURNMENT At 12:50 a.m. it was moved, seconded,
and carried, to adjourn to Tuesday,
May 31, 1977, at 7:30 p.m.
P.C. MINUTES -6- 5/24/77