PC MINS 20140812 Approved
October 14, 014
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
AUGUST 12, 2014
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Leon at 7:13 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
The flag salute was led by Mike Thorton, Congressional Medal of Honor recipient,
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Cruikshank, Emenhiser, Gerstner, James, Tomblin, Vice
Chairman Nelson, and Chairman Leon,
Absent- None
Also present were Community Development Director Rojas, Acting City Manager Petru,
City Attorney Lynch, Senior Planner Schonborn, and Associate Planner Mikhail
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Director Rojas reviewed the number of submitted speaker slips, noting that with the very
large number of speakers, and with the Planning Commission's rule that no new
business will be started after 11:00 p.m. that the Planning Commission may want to
continue item No, 4 to the next meeting and No. 5 to the September 9 meeting (at the
request of the applicant) at this time. He also noted that there are several speakers for
continued item No. 2 and staff has spoken to the applicant who is not averse to
continuing the item to the next meeting,
Vice Chairman Nelson moved to move items 2, 4, and '.5 as the first three items on
the agenda so that the Commission can immediately consider continuing these
items, seconded by Commissioner Gerstner. Approved without objection.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas distributed nine items of late correspondence related to agenda item No.
1, two items of late correspondence for agenda item No, 2, seven items of late
correspondence related to agenda item No. 3, and eleven items of late correspondence
related to agenda item No. 5.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items):
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Heiqht Variation, Grading, & Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2014-00064):
6321 Villa Rosa Drive
Director Rojas noted that staffs recommendation was to continue this item to the
August 26th meeting, however the Commission must open the public hearing to allow
any individuals who cannot attend the August 26th meeting an opportunity to speak on
the item.
Chairman Leon opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Chairman Leon moved to continue the public hearing to
August 26, 2014, seconded by Commissioner Emenhiser. Approved without
objection.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
4. The Terraces Master Sign Program Amendment (Case No. ZON2014-00144:
28901 Western Avenue
Director Rojas stated that staff's amended recommendation is to continue this item to
the August 26th meeting, and the Commission should open the public hearing to allow
individuals the opportunity to speak if they cannot attend that meeting,
Chairman Leon opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public
hearing to August 26, 2014, seconded by Vice Chairman Nelson. Approved
without objection.
5. Appeal of Fence[Wall Permit (Case No. ZON2014-00202): 29023
Sprucegrove Drive
Director Rojas stated that, given the applicant's request, staff was now recommending
this item be continued to the September 9, 2014 meeting.
Chairman Leon opened the public hearing.
There being no speakers, Commissioner Tomblin moved to continue the public
hearing to the September 9, 2014 meeting, seconded by Vice Chairman Nelson.
Approved without objection.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 2
CONTINUED BUSINESS (cont)
1. Green Hills Memorial Park Annual Review
Director Rojas presented a brief staff report, noting that Green Hills has a Conditional
Use Permit that controls the development and operational aspects of the facility. There
is a condition in the CUP that allows the Planning Commission to review the CUP on an
annual basis to address any issues that may arise, and the Commission has the ability
to add, delete, or modify any conditions of approval to address any issues that have
been raised. He explained an issue has been brought up concerning the mausoleum
that was built in Area 11 of the Master Plan and a number of residents from the city of
Lomita who abut this area have raised their concerns with staff and the Commission.
He stated that Green Hills and the residents have not come to an agreement in regards
to any mitigation measures, and therefore the matter is before the Commission to
review potential conditions of approval or mitigation measures to address the impacts.
He noted that there has been a large number of correspondence submitted since the
staff report was made public. He stated the staff report recommends a number of
operational conditions to address the noise and other impacts. However a number of
issues have recently been raised which staff, the acting City Manager, and the City
Attorney have had an opportunity to review, and therefore staff is offering a new
recommendation to the Planning Commission. He explained that staff's position is that
a Variance is necessary to allow the mausoleum to remain in its present location since it
is within the Code required 40-foot setback for such structures. He added that
information was very recently brought to staff's attention that other internments in other
sections of Green Hills may not be not in compliance with conditions of approval.
Therefore staff is recommending the Planning Commission direct Green Hills to submit
an after-the-fact Variance application to seek approval of the mausoleum and any other
internments that may not meet the required setbacks. At the time the Variance
application is before the Commission the Commission will have the ability to review and
impose any conditions of approval they feel necessary to address any impacts that have
been raised thus far.
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff to clarify why a Variance is required.
Director Rojas displayed the Master Plan that was approved by the Planning
Commission in 2007, and pointed out the mausoleum that is currently being discussed.
He noted that in 2007 there was no discussion in the staff report of a setback reduction,
noting however that the plan, which indicated the subject mausoleum 8 feet from the
property line, was submitted and attached to the staff report. He explained the Code
requires a 40-foot setback from a property line that abuts residences, and therefore this
mausoleum should have had a Variance approved to allow for the reduced setback in
conjunction with the CUP amendment that was approved in 2007. As a result, staff is
now recommending that Green Hills apply for an after-the-fact Variance for the reduced
setback.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 3
Commissioner Tomblin suggested that, since Green Hills may be applying for this after-
the-fact Variance, it may be beneficial to Green Hills to bring anything else that is not in
compliance on the property into compliance at this time.
Chairman Leon asked if the Commission were to entertain a Variance application,
would it then be wise to look at some of the operational recommendations and move
forward on those on a temporary or a permanent basis.
Director Rojas explained that attached to the staff report there is a Resolution for a
temporary moratorium, since that was the direction given by the Planning Commission
at the last hearing on this item. He noted that since it will take some time for Green Hills
to prepare and submit a Variance application to the City, staff is recommending that the
Planning Commission impose, on a temporary basis, some operational conditions until
the Variance is acted upon by the Commission.
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff if they could give a rough estimate on the time frame
involved,
Director Rojas explained that it will depend on the applicant and how long it takes them
to submit the Variance application, plans, and pay the fee. Once that is submitted and
deemed complete, a public notice will be sent out to residents within 500 feet, and the
item is scheduled to be heard by the Planning Commission. With that, he was
estimating four months at the very earliest.
Director Rojas clarified that, in terms of operating conditions, staff did not suggest any
type of limitations or restrictions on military services held at Green Hills.
City Attorney Lynch added that it is legally required that the playing of Taps be allowed,
thus staff is suggesting that the playing of Taps be exempt from any regulation.
Senior Planner Schonborn discussed the proposed conditions associated with the
operation of the mausoleum, as stated in the staff report.
Commissioner Tomblin noted the City received a letter from Senator Ted Lieu noting
that any noise or interference within three hundred feet of a service was considered a
minor misdemeanor. He asked staff how this would be addressed if the residents of the
condos have a pool party on a Saturday, and the pool is within eight feet of a burial.
City Attorney Lynch clarified that Senator Lieu's letter says that it is a minor
misdemeanor if anyone protests within three hundred feet of a service. She did not
think ancillary noise, such as children playing at a swimming pool, would be considered
a problem as long as it was not directed at the funeral as some type of protest,
Commissioner Cruikshank asked staff if there were any limitations on the proposed
operational conditions as far as how far the Commission could take these conditions.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 4
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that these proposed conditions are conditions staff
felt would help address some of the basic issues that have arisen as a result of the
operation of rooftop burials,
Commissioner James referred to the proposed conditions, and asked staff if the City
can prevent his neighbor from using his leaf blower once a week,
City Attorney Lynch answered that there are cities that preclude leaf blowers from being
used.
Director Rojas added that Rancho Palos Verdes does not preclude the use of leaf
blowers, but does limit the hours they can be used,
Commissioner James asked how staff felt they could prohibit Green Hills from using a
leaf blower once a week when leaf blowers are used daily in his neighborhood.
Director Rojas explained that staff was reacting to the specific concerns that were
expressed during the previous public testimony regarding noise and impacts.
Ellen Berkowitz (representing Green Hills) read aloud the letter from Senator Ted Lieu
so that everyone would know the contents of the letter. She stated that at the May
Planning Commission meeting, the Commission had asked that Green Hills and Vista
Verde HOA work together to attempt to resolve the issues. Green Hills had presented a
number of potential operational improvements and looked forward to a continued
dialogue with the HOA, Unfortunately Green Hills was advised that the only measures
that would be acceptable to the HOA were either that Green Hills ban all future rooftop
internments on the mausoleum roof, which it cannot do for a number of legal reasons,
or that Green Hills lower the height of the mausoleum, which also could not be done
unless all of the individuals that are laid to rest in and on the mausoleum are disinterred.
As a result, Green Hills does not now appear before the Planning Commission with an
agreement with the HOA. However, she stated that Green Hill's does stand behind their
commitment to develop measures that she hoped would reduce some of the concerns
the HOA had expressed. She noted the staff report contains a number of conditions,
many of which were contained in her May presentation to the Commission. She noted
that while Green Hills agrees in concept with most of the conditions suggested by staff,
Green Hills has offered a slightly revised version of some of the conditions. She noted
that Green Hills retained a noise consultant to prepare a noise study and a
representative is available to answer any questions on this study. With regards to
staff's recommendation that a Variance application be submitted seven years after a
building was approved and three years after all building permits were issued, she stated
she will have to review the legal issues associated with that recommendation should the
Commission choose to move forward with that recommendation. She noted that there
are serious legal and moral impediments to disinter individuals that have already been
interred at the mausoleum, and referenced a recent case where Eden Memorial Park
was required to pay $80 million in settlement for the emotional distress and trauma that
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 5
they caused the families of those that were disinterred and Green Hills will oppose any
effort to disinter any individuals at this site.
Michael Friedman (representing the Vista Verde HOA) appreciated staff's
recommendation that a Variance be sought by the applicant, as he felt it was clear a
mistake was made in the approval of this project. As a result of these mistakes there
are unintended yet significant consequences. He stated there is a clear understanding
by the homeowners that this issue is dealing with people's sensitivity and people's
sensibilities about death, bereavement, and grief. He stated that the problem with the
noise is that it is not excessively loud, but rather the homeowners can hear every word
of the Pastor or of any person speaking, and it is horribly sad. He stated it is very
difficult for these homeowners to be living with two to three funerals per week that are in
clear view of their homes. He stated that the speaker's voice may not be at 65 decibels,
but it doesn't need to be to have an effect on the residents. He felt it was important to
note that the concept of operational modifications to the conditions of approval appear
to have emanated from staff, and it does not appear that the conditions of approval that
allow the Planning Commission to review the operations restrict modifications of the
conditions of approval to operational changes. He stated this is very important because
it is the location of the structure that is the problem, and any operational modification will
not solve the impacts that are a result of the structure height and proximity to the
property line. Therefore, he felt that trying to use operational modifications is a band aid
at best. He stated that as much as the homeowners would like to see operational
changes, he did not think it was a solution. He stated when he has tried to get Green
Hills to consider any structural changes, the subject is immediately taken off the table.
He stated Green Hills put in their Conditional Use Permit application that there would be
no adverse impacts to adjoining property owners, and yet Green Hills is acting like they
are the victims. He explained that currently Green Hills is putting one body on top of
another, which is why the rooftop burial area is so high. He therefore felt it was possible
to make some structural changes to remove one of the layers. He felt that once Green
Hills starts discussing the possibility of structural changes, things, become wide open.
However, Green Hills is claiming they have the right to keep things just as they are. He
noted that everyone knows mistakes were made, and he felt some of those mistakes
were inaccurate or false information contained in their applications, which gives grounds
for revocation. He did not think Vista Verde was saying a mausoleum could never be
built at this site, only that the current mausoleum is too close and too big. He felt more
time was needed to look at all of this, and more time was needed in order to come up
with the most balanced solution. However, he would recommend that the deceased
loved ones not be used as human shields, and allow more to be put in the ground
where they may have to be disinterred in the future. He felt this could be accomplished
by having a 90 day moratorium in place on sales of new lots,
Commissioner Emenhiser asked Mr. Friedman what he saw as the ultimate solution,
Mr. Friedman answered that he would like to see the rooftop burial area gone, but
possibly with an expansion to the mausoleum itself to try to recoup, some of the lost
space. He explained that with the removal of the rooftop burials there would be nobody
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 6
standing on the roof, nobody looking into the condos, nobody playing music, as it would
all be contained within the building. He pointed out that there would still be some view
loss, as this is still a very large building eight feet from the property line.
Commissioner Emenhiser asked if any of the conditions of approval that have been
proposed are acceptable to the Vista Verde HOA.
Mr. Friedman answered that the HOA would accept all of the conditions proposed by
staff, as well as the modification proposed by Green Hills with respect to the military
funerals. He pointed out that the problem with the military funerals is that they are held
on the rooftop, not how they are conducted, He suggested there be no burials on the
rooftop on Saturday and Sunday afternoons.
Vice Chairman Nelson asked Mr. Friedman if he knew of any law against digging up a
casket and reburying it.
Mr. Friedman stated that he is a land use attorney and does not have any specialty in
cemetery law. However, he added that he would be very surprised if there is nothing in
the Green Hills contract for sale of burial plots that doesn't talk about the possibility or
the necessity to relocate an interned body because of circumstances beyond their
control.
Ann Christensen stated she is a resident of the City and her father is a veteran buried at
Green Hills, and noted that they used no amplification system. She stated she is also a
mortuary science student and stated there are laws about disinterring bodies, and in an
emergency the bodies can be disinterred but they must be put back in exactly the place
from which they were removed. She stated that she and her husband spent the last two
Saturdays at Green Hills on the rooftop area. She stated there was nobody in the Vista
Verde swimming pool from noon to 1:30 on either Saturday, and reminded the
Commission that these were both very hot days. She also noted that the only other
person on the rooftop either day was a woman laying at a grave site. She added that
she worked at Green Hills for a short time, and noted that 80 to 90 percent of the people
who came in to look for plots did so on Saturdays and Sundays between approximately
1:00 and 4.-00. Therefore, limiting Green Hills to 2:00 would be very hurtful to their
business,
Martin Dodell stated that over the years he has been involved with numerous
community and civic groups within the City. During that time he has come to value the
presence of Green Hills and the services they provide to the Peninsula and the entire
South Bay. He stated that from what he has read in the newspaper and has heard at
this meeting there have been comprises suggested that may move in the direction of
some sort of solution, and it was his hope that the Planning Commission would continue
to work in that direction. He felt that imposing a moratorium on funeral services was far
too harsh a remedy, as it will not impact Green Hills but rather an unknown number of
bereaved families and their friends from the entire South Bay. He felt that relying on a
moratorium will simply serve to harden positions and add to the mistrust of the Planning
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 7
Commission and City staff. He hoped the Planning Commission will work toward a
suitable solution such as offered by staff.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Dodell his opinion on the HOA's suggestion on a 90
,day moratorium on future sales.
Mr. Dodell did not feel he had enough information to be able to answer that question.
Matthew Geier (Vista Verde HOA President) explained that he has had time to think
about all the things that are wrong with the building of the mausoleum, and thanks to the
recent media coverage he has heard from people he does not know on this matter. He
has been asked why the HOA didn't do anything and how the City could allow this
mausoleum to be built to close to a condo and a pool. He recalled that when he bought
his condo he was told by his realtor that there is a 40-foot setback as defined in the
Municipal Code and nobody could build in that area. He explained that the HOA did not
act in 2007 because the notice given to the residents affected by the new mausoleum
was not accurate, as it stated the new mausoleum would be built in the southeast
portion of Area 11. He stated this mausoleum has affected the views of the residents
and cost residents many hundreds of thousands of dollars in property values, and their
privacy is priceless. He said this could not be fixed in the long term with walls, barriers,
tents, and noise restrictions. He did not think the homeowner's views will not be
restored and privacy will not be the same until, at the very least, the mausoleum
conforms to the original Master Plan or all roof top crypts and burials are removed and
relocated altogether. He noted that Green Hills has already admitted that the moved
some deceased bodies to the new mausoleum after it had been built, and they had
been previously been buried elsewhere. He clarified that the homeowner's have
absolutely no problem, with anyone who has served this Country or any mourners at
Green Hills. He stated the problem is the proximity and the size of this grave area on
the roof top of the mausoleum.
Diane Smith felt that if the Planning Commission had been told by city staff that the
mausoleum would destroy views and that the minimum 40-foot setback would be
reduced to less than 8 feet, the Commission would never have allowed Green Hills to
erect this mausoleum. Furthermore, she felt the Green Hills architects knew full well the
City's codes and knew the setback should have been a minimum of 40 feet. She stated
that if her father were buried in a mausoleum that caused so much grief to the nearby
residents she would want him out and moved to a happier place. She felt that a
Variance was a ridiculous idea and the wall should be removed. She felt an
investigation should be performed to find out how this mistake was made, and noted
that the staff who made these mistakes are still there and are advising the Planning
Commission. She stated that on the April 24, 2007 Planning Commission video, clock
time 3:09:10, Commissioner Knight asks the Planning Director about Lomita residents'
Area 11 view impairment, and on the tape there is a whispering of someone saying "just
say no". She felt a full investigation was called for.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 8
Steven Crecy stated he was a member of Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 53 of
the South Bay. He stated he had some prepared remarks, however the Planning
Commission's reassurances have comforted him that veteran internments will not be
hampered and ceremonies will be allowed to, continue as they do in the military tradition.
He stated that former military personnel deserve a level of dignity at the time of their
passing and the time honored military practice of a three volley salute is intended to
demonstrate our respect and thanks to the family of the departed, as well as to affirm
our status of a grateful nation. He reminded the Commission that their decision will
send a signal.
The Commission thanked Mr. Crecy for his service to the Country.
Judy Garland stated she was a civilian working with the military in Vietnam and chose to
speak at this meeting to show her support of the nation's veterans. She explained she
was a bit distressed by comments made by some of the residents that they felt a full
military funeral was an imposition on their life.
Commissioner Emenhiser explained that there are no suggested conditions in regards
to military funerals, and the one Planning Commissioner who asked the question about
military funerals is no longer on the Commission.
Dawn Anzack stated she was speaking in support for military funerals as well as for first
responders. She felt the military should be able to support any first responder killed in
the line of duty. She explained it is not always possible to make arrangements for
someone to play Taps, and hoped that the requirement that there be no amplified music
that a recording of Taps or the bagpipes is excluded. She stated the military personnel
give everything to this Country and ask for nothing in return. She asked the
Commission if a bugle player or a bagpipe player is not available, if a recording of the
music will be allowed to be played.
Chairman Leon answered that it would be allowed,
Brid.gette Jameson felt that the recent media publicity of this has lead people to
complain about things that they did not previously consider a problem. While that is
fine, she did not think the upset over these issues should not be responded to in such a
petty manner as banging pots, yelling obscenities, setting off car alarms, or other
disruptions. She felt that lowering the wall will completely ruin a 2.5 million dollar
investment. She also noted that before this mausoleum was built the City sent out
notices to surrounding neighbors inviting them to make comments about the proposed
structure and attend the Planning Commission meeting. She felt that the most offensive
thing that has been said was an attorney saying that Green Hills stole the resident's
views and sold it to a bunch of dead people. She noted that just because there was a
view that didn't mean there always would be a view. She felt that cemeteries are just as
much for the living as they are for the dead. She did not think an exclusion should be
made for audio devices being used, as often times they are necessary.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12, 2014
Page 9
George Hood felt this was a case of two neighbors who can't get along, and someone is
going to have to do some compromising. He had hoped the two sides could have
worked this out without getting the City so involved,
Julie Reynolds stated that when she goes out on her balcony she is just a few feet away
from people who are grieving, and she has seen people get up and leave because it
makes them uncomfortable. She stated that mourners have no idea how helpless and
how sorry the residents feel. She clarified that the Vista Verde HOA never requested a
moratorium on the twenty-one gun salute. She felt that these type of accusations are
meant to hide a central core fact that the mausoleum has been right next to their homes
and Green Hills has shown time and time again that they are not willing to negotiate
with the HOA. She felt that Green Hills has offered the HOA so little and then blame
them for not accepting it. She stated the Commission has the power to change that,
and asked the Commission to revoke their Conditional Use Permit.
Julie Keye stated she is a homeowner at Vista Verde, and gave a brief history of her
interactions with city staff leading up to the approval of the mausoleum. She felt it was
important to watch the February 27, 2007 and the April 24, 2007 meetings to see how it
was possible that the eight-foot setback got approved. She explained that setback
changes were made and the condo owners were told it was legal. She wondered if this
was a special situation with Green Hills. She noted the Municipal Code requires a 40-
foot setback and this 8-foot setback now sets a precedence throughout the cemetery.
She added that the homeowners were never notified that the setbacks were going to be
changed, and when she questioned Mr. Rojas why these changes were never
discussed with the Planning Commission he responded that he didn't think there would
be any objection and he didn't think anyone would mind.
Chip Keye stated that he has looked at all of the files in the Planning Department
regarding Vista Verde and Green Hills, noting that in 1990 there was extensive
correspondence regarding Green Hills and concerns with setbacks and views. He felt
that staff had to have seen these concerns in the file. He discussed the 2007 meetings,
noting that the homeowners missed these meetings because the initial facts
represented to the public were false, stating that the proposed mausoleum would be
located southeast of the maintenance yard when it was actually southwest of the
maintenance yard. He explained that he bought his condo for the panoramic ocean
views, and staff had stated several times that no views would be impacted. (At this
point Julie Keye finished Chip Keye's statements). She noted that Mr. Frew, CEO of
Green Hills, had the integrity to say on the record that they knew before the mausoleum
was built that it would block views, and that he spoke up about it on several occasions.
The mausoleum was built anyway. She stated that even if the City bans rooftop burials
there will be a constant stream of people coming to mourn over loved ones.
Sharon Love stated that when she appeared before this Commission last May she
thought the information she shared regarding the April 2007 meeting was about a
mausoleum in Area 11. She noted that Commissioner Knight kept referring to a
silhouette with a ridge below anything that will block a view. She kept wondering what
Planning Commission Minutes
August l2,2014
Page 10
silhouette he was referring to. She recalled that the silhouette used for Area 2 was up
for over six years. She was curious as to why the meeting in 1990 had such an outcry
and the 2007 meeting had none. She referred to the public notice from February 6,
2007, section 6 states the request was to allow for an addition to the previously
approved mausoleum building located southeast of the existing maintenance yard. She
questioned where the previously approved mausoleum was, and questioned how one
can put an addition on a building that was never built. She felt that there is now a
precedence to allow an eight-foot setback to all property lines adjacent to the cemetery.
She did not think the Commission would have approved this mausoleum if they had
been given the correct information, and now the Commission may realize the truth but is
under pressure of a lawsuit from Green Hills, She asked the Commission to revoke the
Conditional Use Permit.
Lore Brown stated she has been a Vista Verde resident for over 25 years. She stated
her role at this meeting was discuss chronological facts, and noted that in 1990 fifteen
letters were submitted to Rancho Palos Verdes during the Green Hills hearing. These
letters objected to several issues, including changing the setback, loss of the harbor
views, loss of privacy, massive amount of grading, and changing of the landscape. At
that time Green Hills staff reached out to residents and said that no views would be
impacted and future development would be dormant for the next 70 to 80 years.
However, she noted development was not dormant and views were impacted. She
stated in 2012 the mausoleum was built, and in 2013 the Vista Verde HOA wrote two
certified letters to Green Hills attempting to reach some conclusion to some of the
issues. When they heard nothing from Green Hills, she stated Green Hills informed the
HOA that the letters were tossed. She stated that 24 years later there are still the
same, unresolved issues.
Brian Carter explained he has recently moved into the Vista Verde condos, and one of
the selling features of the condo was the swimming pool. He noted that he was using
the pool this afternoon and at that time there were small children visiting their deceased
mother at Green Hills. He stated it is very difficult to use the pool when you hear the
issues at Green Hills. He also felt that may be inappropriate for residents to be using
the pool while there is a service taking place. He stated that the size and proximity of
the mausoleum makes him feel like a prisoner in his own home, especially when there
is a service taking place. He clarified that the owners are not using the pool because
they don't like using the pool, but rather because they feel it is unacceptable to bother
the mourners while they are at the grave sites.
Lane Mayhew discussed the sunlight that used to stream in her windows from the
south, overlooking her patio. She stated that today there is not much light left to come
into her living room, as well as no ocean view, lights from the Palos Verdes hill, and only
a partial sky. All because they are blocked by the mausoleum. She stated it is her unit
whose view and privacy is most affected by the mausoleum, and submitted a picture
showing where her condo is located in relation to the mausoleum.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 11
Nevada Prewitt stated she purchased her property at Vista Verde in 1988 primarily for
the ocean view and the green vistas in front of her living room and dining room. She
explained that before the construction began she received a vague notice from the City,
and contacted the Planning Department to get more information. She stated the person
she spoke to in the Planning Department assured her the changes that were proposed
would not affect her property whatsoever, and the changes were to be made on a parcel
that wasn't even close to her property, She had no reason to believe she would be
given false information from the City. She stated she was also told that the rules didn't
apply to her because she did not live in the City of Rancho Palos Verdes. She
discussed the problems she encountered during the construction of the mausoleum and
measures she took to try to discuss these problems with someone from Green Hills.
She stated she has suffered a loss to her property value, a complete loss of her ocean
view, has obstructed vista views, a complete loss of privacy in her home and pool, and
loss of enjoyment of her home.
Commissioner James asked Ms. Prewitt if she recalled who told her that because she
didn't live in the City that the rules didn't apply to her,
Ms. Prewitt answered that she didn't really recall, other than it was a man. She added
that the only name that sounded familiar to her was Eduardo, but she was not sure if
was him or not.
Joanna Jones-Reed clarified that this situation has absolutely nothing to do with
veterans or military burials. She discussed the fact that there is a swimming pool,
recreation room, bar-b-que, and jacuzzi and the condominiums for everyone's use to
ensure leisurely relaxing time and entertaining. She stated that directly next to this area
is the extremely large mausoleum complete with rooftop burials, mourners, and
funerals. She stated this image is dour, gloomy, tearful, and sad. She stated this large
structure also blocks the pre-existing harbor view. She felt that the intention of Green
Hills was to intimidate the homeowners and their intention to build this monstrous
structure is a deliberate attempt to harass the homeowners and constitutes
malfeasance. She stated the Vista Verde HOA is asking for an investigation into this
intolerable situation.
John Astbury stated that in listening to the dialogue from the May meeting it sounded
like some of the Commissioners were wondering how the situation has gotten to where
it is now. Many of the Commissioners have been in his home, and he stated that at
least one former Commissioner stated they had no realization of what was being
approved, and if they knew then what was being contemplated they would not have
voted for the approval in 2007. He explained that he has researched the files at the City
and has found correspondence from the City Manager of Lomita objecting to the 1990
proposed changes, as well as a legal opinion from the Rancho Palos Verdes City
Attorney that appears contrary to Green Hills' request. However, he felt that the 2007
notice sent by the City was vague and contained errors.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 12
Nadia Georgena stated she would like to point out some of the ways in which Green
Hills has been operating in violations of their Conditional Use Permit. She discussed
the lack of maintenance of the existing chain link fence and wrought iron fence which
surrounds the perimeter of the cemetery. She showed photos of the landscaping water
and irrigation that spills over onto the Vista Verde property. She also showed photos of
several plants she felt were planted in violation of the conditions of approval.
Veronica Lawlor stated that before the mausoleum was built she had a panoramic view
of the port and the mountains. Now she felt they live like prisoners with the exhaust and
dust from digging up the graves and the funerals that take place on top of the
mausoleum cause them to close their drapes. She then read a letter from the Mayor of
Lomita written in 1990 to the Rancho Palos Verdes Planning Director objecting to the
change in variance at Green Hills. She stated that the residents of Vista Verde would
have complained out this recent mausoleum if they had been given proper and correct
notice. She stated that the residents of Vista Verde would have complained out this
recent mausoleum if they had been given proper and correct notice.
Debbie Landes stated Vista Verde has been her home since 1986, and has a unit that
encompasses the entire length of the Pacific Terrace Mausoleum rooftop. She
explained that she did not lose an ocean view, but rather a view of an expansive
beautiful green area, the wonderful breezes that used to come through, and most
importantly, the loss of personal space. She felt she was intruding on a very private
part of people's lives just by being in her own home. She questioned if it was
considered harassment for her to be sifting outside reading her newspaper while a
funeral service was taking place. She asked if having a bbq while a service was taking
place was considered harassment, noting her guests now have to witness the funeral as
well. She realized that it must be difficult for a Green Hills administrator or a Rancho
Palos Verdes Commissioner or staff member to understand the extent to which the
rooftop has affected the lives of the Vista Verde residents. She explained that without
living there it is difficult to understand the day to day experiences. She felt that to make
this situation right for the residents and the families of the deceased, the rooftop burials
at the mausoleum should be removed.
Bob Holme stated he served as Mayor and Councilman for Manhattan Beach for twelve
years. He also stated he had the honor of serving in the United States Army for three
years. He asked that the Commission be very careful in their wording to exclude
military burials from any possible moratorium or modifications. He asked that there be
no restriction place on live or recorded playing of Taps or bagpipes, and that there be
no restriction placed on the rifle salute with the military burial. Finally, he noted that the
staff report includes a burial activity report for rooftop burials at Memorial Terrace
Mausoleum building. This report shows there were 45 burials on the rooftop over the
past twelve months. He noted the land use attorney earlier stated that there are four to
five burials a week in this area, which is a large discrepancy. He stated that are
instances, documented by the United States Air Force and the mortuary, of harassment
by the residents during military burials. He noted that there have been staff reports and
hearings before the Planning Commission and the City Council on this mausoleum
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 13
since 2004 and he felt that everyone had ample opportunity to read these reports and
express their concerns,
Rabbi Gary Spero stated he has officiated at a number of burials at Green Hills and felt
that an open-air roof top burial can be quieter than what goes on inside an echoing
mausoleum. He felt that the idea that burials be restricted to certain days of the week
will cause problems for Jewish burials, as their religious laws require burial within 24
hours or as soon thereafter as the death certificate is issued. Customs restrict laying
someone to rest on Saturday, and therefore if a person dies on a Thursday or a Friday
they will most likely be buried on a Sunday. He was very concerned about the
documented incident that occurred where obscenities were used during a military
funeral. He felt that when one chooses to live next to a cemetery you have to expect to
see funerals.
Chairman Leon asked Rabbi Spero if, other than the 24 hour restriction, are there any
time of day restrictions in place for burial under the Jewish Laws.
Rabbi Spero answered that only so far as it would approach the Sabbath.
Jeffrey Lewis stated he was not before the Commission representing any party or
organization other than the Commission's good conscience. He stated that he was on
the Planning Commission in 2007 when this matter came before the Commission. He
stated that in 2007 there was no discussion about rooftop burials or reducing the
setback to 8 feet. He stated that if there had been and the cemetery had been forthright
about their intentions, he felt there would have been CEQA issues, there would have
been notice given to the neighbors, and all of this could have been avoided. He asked,
now that this has happened, what is the City going to do about it and should it been the
homeowners or the cemetery who bears the burden. He felt it had to be the cemetery,
as the homeowners did nothing wrong. He stated that he recently reviewed the 2007
tapes of the meetings and discovered the cemetery requested a standard condition be
deleted, that there not be a public annual review of their operations. In retrospect, he is
very suspicious of that request. He stated he was of the opinion the City can and
should find that the Conditional Use Permit was issued on the basis of incorrect
information supplied by Green Hills, and the City can and should revoke the Conditional
Use Permit. If the applicant wishes to conduct rooftop burials or reduce the setback to
eight feet, they should go through the appropriate CEQA process. In conclusion, he
stated he is Jewish and knew of no requirement that requires us to be buried in that
particular spot, and the cemetery can make reasonable accommodations with anybody
that needs a fast funeral and there is no reason that Jewish law should be used as a
pretext for what the cemetery has done.
Commissioner Emenhiser asked Mr. Lewis his opinion on the neighborhood notification
issue in terms of how they were notified and if they were notified in 2007.
Planning Commission Minutes
August'••,12,2014
Page 14
Mr, Lewis answered that the best evidence of what happened in 2007 is the video tape
and the empty room. He felt there is a reason this room is packed tonight and it wasn't
in 2007.
Mike McClung (1896 Peninsula Verde Drive) stated that at the last meeting the very first
speaker for Green Hills stated he was an expert in cemeteries and traveled the United
States testifying on behalf of cemeteries, and he helped cemeteries plan how to build
cemeteries. Yet, Green Hills has said they had no idea this was going to happen. He
felt that by this gentleman's own testimony they knew exactly what they were doing and
knew the exact results they would get. He recommended the Commission make it right
for the Vista Verde residents. He stated that he likes having the cemetery as his
neighbor, but he would not like them building a mausoleum eight feet from his back wall.
Matthew Martin felt staff made an earlier comment at this meeting that he thought was
inaccurate. He stated that staff had said they did not address the setback issue in the
staff reports, but he distributed a staff report from February 2007 which included many
of these issues. He felt Green Hills is currently in violation of condition No. 6 of their
CUP, and noted condition No. 35 gives the City the authority to revoke the CUP if they
are in violation of any conditions. He quoted several sections from the 2007 staff report
and noted the sections where the 80 foot setback was changed to 8 feet. He stated this
change directly violates section 1 and section 3 of the Municipal Code for issuing a
CUP. Therefore, he felt the CUP wasn't issued in compliance with City Codes and
should be revoked. He questioned why, instead of disinterring people, the entire
building couldn't be moved. He felt that even if the mausoleum was approved in 2007
at 8 feet from the property line, there is still internments; within the 16 foot setback which
is in violation of a separate condition that addresses internments; in the ground. He
stated that the crypts inside the mausoleum are also below ground and could also be in
violation.
Paul Tetreault stated he was on the Planning Commission in 2007 when this item came
before the Commission. Stated he was here to express his regret and his sorrow that in
some way he had a hand in this situation. As a Planning Commissioner he did not
appreciate the conflicting language, and felt that none of the Commissioners did. He
did not think any of the Commissioners realized there would be rooftop burials or a
substantial deviation of the setback. He did not recall any time in his ten years as a
Planning Commissioner that he approved a variance to a setback on any property. He
did not think staff was trying to hide anything or there was any type of conspiracy, things
Just happen sometimes, He felt the Commission should now do the best they can do to
fix this situation.
Commissioner Em,enhiser asked Mr. Tetreault his opinion on what the solution may be.
Mr. Tetreault stated it is a problem, in that there are people who have purchased these
plots not knowing the problems and controversies surrounding them. There are
homeowners who, through no fault of their own, have suffered harm. He was puzzled
by Green Hills, as they have put their clients in a bad position by doing this. He
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 15
acknowledged there are a lot of aggrieved parties and he was not sure what can be
done, as there are legal issues involved.
Kyle Orlemann stated she and her husband are both very active in the veteran's
community and have seen the incredible respect Green Hills shows towards veterans
and the law enforcement community. She felt there are a lot of unintended
consequences in every direction with this project. She felt it was very obvious that
mistakes were made along the line, some of the mistakes made in innocence and some
made by people who did not do their due diligence. She pointed out the differences
between 40 feet, 16 feet, and 8 feet and did not feel that in this case it would make
much difference. She also noted that there are approximately 400 plots on the rooftop
and over 125 of them are currently occupied. She felt this is a finite problem, as not that
many more burials will be happening at this area, and they all will not happen within the
next week, month, or year.
Greg Tonkovich stated Green Hills hired his company to do a noise study on this project
and he stated he was available for any questions. He briefly explained that he took
several noise measurements, noting that the condos are already being impacted by
noise from other sources, which they experience every day. He noted that the staff
report has suggested several mitigation measures, however based on the noise study
there is no noise impact happening, as the noise is all below City standards. He did not
think there was a nexus to any of the suggested mitigation measures,
Chairman Leon stated that there is a difference between coherent and random noise
and the communication that takes place. He stated that what Mr. Tonkovich was
measuring was random noise, but there is still coherent communication that can take
place at a much lower level which is the message that the residents are receiving from
the area, and that which the Commission is looking at conditioning.
Ellen Berkowitz (in rebuttal) clarified that there are approximately three funerals per
month at this site, and most funerals last less than thirty minutes. She stated the
services are now tented, and hoped this would help mitigate the privacy concerns. She
noted that cemetery laws are contained in a number of codes, including the penal code,
the government code, the business and professions code, and the health and safety
code. She stated there are very clear prohibitions in the law about moving interred
individuals. She stated Green Hills has been accused of threatening a law suit, and she
stated that nobody is threatening a law suit. She referred to Mr. Friedman's comment
that bodies were moved to the mausoleum after death, but that was with express
consent of the families that wanted their loved one at the mausoleum. She was pleased
that the Commission has indicated they do not want to do anything that would impact
the veterans, however she pointed out there are number of the discussion points and a
number of proposed conditions of approval that would do so. She stated disinterring
veterans would adversely affect the families as would tearing off the roof of the
mausoleum, imposing a moratorium, or seriously reducing the hours that people can
look at burial plots or have services. In regards as to whether the rooftop burials were
disclosed to the Planning Commission, she noted that in the conceptual plans that went
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 16
before the Commission in 2007 there were a number of mausoleums that contained
rooftop burials and they were shown on the plans. She stated that one of those
drawings was attached to the HOA's letter submitted to the Commission in connection
with this hearing, Ms. Berkowitz reviewed and explained the red-line version she
submitted of the Resolution prepared by staff. These conditions were also displayed on
the overhead for the audience to view.
City Attorney Lynch suggested the Commission not try at this meeting to make any of
the changes suggested by Green Hills, but rather have the Commission make
suggested changes to staff and allow staff to return with a Resolution reflecting those
changes.
Vice Chairman Nelson asked Ms. Berkowitz how the staff proposed 3 p.m. burial cutoff
fit with the Jewish tradition, and if the funeral started at 4 p.m. because it has to be
within 24 hours of death, would Green Hills impose a fee.
Ms. Berkowitz answered that Green Hills would most likely impose the fee to any
funeral after 3 p.m.
Chairman Leon asked Ms. Berkowitz if the exception they were requesting for music at
military funerals would also apply to funerals for policemen and firemen.
Ms. Berkowitz answered that it would encompass fire and police personnel. She stated
that Green Hills has suggested the addition of two additional conditions of approval.
She explained the first condition would be that every week Green Hills will mark the
grave sites where a funeral is scheduled for the upcoming week, and the website will
have posted the exact time of those funerals. Secondly, Green Hills has offered to have
at least one employee attend every service to make sure there is no untoward activity.
Vice Chairman Nelson asked if that employee will have the ability to enforce the cease
and desist order.
Ms. Berkowitz answered that if there is a person who is disrupting a service the Green
Hills employee will be able to tell the person they need to stop, and can perhaps show
them Senator Lieu's letter. They will also have the ability to call the Sheriffs
Department.
Commissioner Emenhiser stated that some of the speakers mentioned something about
cameras and recording devices placed by Green Hills, and asked Ms. Berkowitz if she
was aware of such devices.
Ms. Berkowitz answered that there are security cameras placed throughout Green Hills
and there are security cameras placed on the back of the mausoleum. She explained
there are no microphones recording any conversations and the cameras are sound
activated cameras. She stated these cameras are not pointed at the condos and Green
Hills cannot see the residents with these cameras, as they are aimed at Green Hills
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12, 2014
Page 17
property. She explained the reason the cameras are there stems from an incident where
someone complained Green Hills was allowing parties to take place at the site, and the
cameras are there to monitor any trespassing.
Commissioner Cruikshank referred to a comment made by a speaker that there looks
like there may be a violation of the 16-foot setback of internments. He asked Ms.
Berkowitz if she had any comments, and if there was a violation he asked what Green
Hills would be willing to do.
Ms. Berkowitz stated that she had not heard of this alleged violation before this evening
and would have to look into it before commenting,
Commissioner Tomblin asked Ms. Berkowitz if she could certify at this point in time that
Green Hills is in compliance with the CUP.
Ms. Berkowitz responded that her knowledge is that Green Hills makes every effort to
be in compliance with the CUP, and she suspected that Green Hills was in compliance
with the CUP. However, she did not know about the information presented at this
meeting and will have to look into it.
Commissioner Tomblin asked how much time would be needed to get back to staff in
reference to the CUP.
Ms. Berkowitz felt Green Hills could get back to staff by the end of the next day,
Commissioner Tomblin asked what Green Hills is disclosing to all potential buyers and
existing customers in reference to the pending review of the Planning Commission that
may restrict or change conditions in this area.
Ms. Berkowitz answered that Green Hills is not disclosing to people that the CUP may
be revoked. She explained the people have been reading articles in the newspaper and
there have been concerns, but from her perspective Green Hills has a right to be where
they are since the mausoleum was built with City approvals and permits. She stated
that if people ask questions about what is going on, Green Hills is happy to answer
them.
Commissioner Tomblin suggested a condition be added to protect the City that there be
a disclosure made to all potential individuals that there is review by the Planning
Commission and the City in reference to the Conditional Use Permit.
Chairman Leon referred to the double crypts and asked Ms. Berkowitz if anyone has
been placed in the top layers,
Ms. Berkowitz did not know the answer to that question.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12, 2014
Page 18
Chairman Leon asked, within that area, if Ms. Berkowitz was aware of how many were
sold but still empty.
Ms. Berkowitz estimated that approximately three quarters of the total number have
been sold. She did not know how many were broken up into the top or the bottom.
Commissioner Tomblin referred to the letter from Senator Lieu, and asked what position
Green Hills will take if there is a loud pool party taking place at the condominiums during
a service.
Ms. Berkowitz clarified that what the Ted Lieu statute discusses is protest activities,
which are actions that are directed toward the participants in the funeral or burial service
that are negative statements specifically directed towards them.
Commissioner Cruikshank asked if participants in funerals are prepared for or realize
the area is so close to a residential condominium complex.
Ms. Berkowitz explained that everyone who purchases the plot will go to the site before
purchase to see where their loved one will be buried. In addition, prior to the funeral
itself Green Hills will take the family to the plot site. She added that this is another
reason that putting restrictions on the sales staff to two hours on the weekends is
problematic.
Commissioner Cruikshank asked if members of the funeral service, outside of the
immediate family, are aware they will be near a residential community,
Ms. Berkowitz answered that they do know they will be near homes and there are now
notices now posted up that there reminding them.
Commissioner James asked Ms. Berkowitz her response to the suggestion made by the
HOA attorney for a moratorium an the sales of new plots in this area.
Ms. Berkowitz stated that Green Hills would object to that, explaining approximately
three quarters of the lots have been sold, and it may be that a family member is buried
in this area and the family wants to purchase additional lots to be close to their loved
one. She added that she does not believe it is legal to do that.
Chairman Leon closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Gerstner referred to page 126 of the staff report, which discusses rooftop
internment. He commented there are approximately 43 people interned on the rooftop
at this time, and noted it also appears that for the plots furthest to the north, which are
the plots closest to the condominium complex, there is currently no one interned. He
then referred to the section on frequency of burials, which shows in the first month there
were ten internments on the rooftop, most likely those being moved to this area, but
after that an average of 3 to 4 burials per month.
Manning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 19
Commissioner Tomblin asked staff how long it will take for staff to go out to Green Hills
to measure and verify setbacks at the rooftop area to ensure there are no violations of
the setback requirements,
Senior Planner Schonborn stated staff can go out and drop a measuring tape or staff
can rely on the applicant to provide staff with a certification from a land surveyor
showing the location of the plots in relation to the property line.
Chairman Leon felt it would be best to have staff go out and do a cursory check before
going through the survey process,
Chairman Leon asked staff if it was there interpretation that if there is dirt on the roof of
the mausoleum, that is considered below ground.
Director Rojas responded that is the point made by the speaker with regards to his
documentation. He stated this is a new issue raised to staff, and staff has not made its
final interpretation as to whether that was the intent of the Code.
Commissioner Tomblin felt that in ground is in ground, and even though it may be up
thirty feet there is still equipment that has to dig a hole into the ground for an internment.
Chairman Leon asked for opinions from the Commission on whether there should be a
set of temporary conditions put in place, and whether they should be instituted now,
after, or as part of a variance process.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that there was a change in the setback that requires a
variance and that variance does not exist at this time. Therefore, he felt for the CUP to
be properly valid and correct, that a variance application needs to be made and
processed. He noted that all the rules that go along with a variance need to be
followed, including a public hearing and making the required findings. He felt the
Commission should request the applicant make an application for a variance to allow
the setback to be in compliance with the city codes. He asked that staff also look at all
of the other conditions of approval of the CUP and report back to the Commission the
status of compliance with the CUP, taking into account the recent questions regarding
setbacks that may not be in compliance. He also stated that if the variance process
proceeds, any conditions of approval that the Commission applies should be temporary
conditions of approval such that certain goals of the Commission are accomplished
during the period in which the variance is being reviewed. He felt those conditions need
to attempt to mitigate potential harm to people being interned, families, residents, and
the cemetery itself so that nobody gets into a worse situation than they are in now and
nobody incurs greater liability than they currently have.
Commissioner Gerstner moved that the Commission request Green Hills make an
application for a Variance for the setbacks that were adjusted in the conditions of
approval of the CUP without the proper Variance application, and that a time limit
be set on the submittal of this application. He requested the application be
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 20
submitted and heard by the Planning Commission in the fastest possible time.
Second, that staff review all of the conditions of approval of the CUP and the
current compliance or non-compliance with those conditions of approval, and
that this be done before the Commission hears the Variance application,
seconded by Vice Chairman Nelson.
Commissioner James asked Commissioner Gerstner if he favored a moratorium.
Commissioner Gerstner explained he favored a restriction, at some level, of what is
going on at the rooftop. He was not sure that was a moratorium or not.
Commissioner Emenhiser commented that he felt every burial is a sacred event, and
certainly burials of veterans and first responders are the most sacred of all. He stated
that in 2007 Green Hills presented a plan to the Planning Commission, and he
wondered why nobody from the condo association responded to the public notice. He
felt that question was answered this evening. He felt that these problems slipped by a
lot of people, however he also believed Green Hills had a very good idea of what they
were doing and the potential impacts. He did not think that neither Green Hills nor the
condo association will be happy with whatever the Planning Commission ultimately
decides. He stated that he will be voting against a 90-day moratorium, however he will
be voting in favor of some of the conditions.
Commissioner Cruikshank felt it was troubling to have to learn about CUP violations
from the public, but he realized that staff is limited. He appreciated that the Commission
was going to ask staff to look into full CUP compliance. He also complimented ex-
Commissioners Tetreault and Lewis for speaking before the Commission. He stated he
would be voting in favor of the motion.
Commissioner James felt that the testimony of the two ex-Commissioners carried a lot
of weight. He felt a huge mistake had been made and there was no way to get around
that. He stated he will vote in favor of this motion, as the only way he could see to try to
start getting to the right place was by the Variance approach that is the subject of the
motion. He felt it was unfortunate, but he didn't see another solution at this time. He
felt it was the Commission's duty to try to do the right thing, and he felt this was the right
thing.
The motion was approved, (7-0).
Chairman Leon next wanted to discuss interim conditions that the Commission may
want to impose on Green Hills.
Commissioner Tomblin moved to accept staff's recommendations on the
conditions with two additional conditions: 1) that Green Hills disclose that there
are pending reviews that may require a change of use of the rooftop plots and a
prohibition of rooftop internments, and 2) that staff immediately do a field survey
Planning Commission Minutes
August l2,2014
Page 21
of the alleged violations of setbacks and that any internments that may be in
violation of the CUP not be allowed.
City Attorney Lynch added that Ms. Berkowitz had raised the issue about amendingthe
one condition so that as far as amplified sound it would exclude the military burials. She
suggested this may want to be part of the motion.
Commission Tomblin moved to amend his motion to modify the condition to
exclude amplified sound restrictions from military, police personnel, and fire
personnel burials.
Commissioner Gerstner asked for clarification, as there was a discussion for amplified
sound for the playing of Taps and a conversation about amplified sound for other things.
He felt that generally when everyone was speaking about amplified sound they usually
said "and things like that". He asked the City Attorney for guidance as to be how to be
very specific about what kind of amplified sound and for whom.
City Attorney Lynch stated that staff would bring a condition back to the Planning
Commission for review at the next meeting.
Vice Chairman Nelson seconded the motion on the floor,
Commissioner Emenhiser noted that the motion includes a prohibition, and wondered if
there was a way to soften that prohibition given that Green Hills sold the plots to people
who chose that location, and what would happen if those people died in the next 60 to
90 days. He also questioned the condition that sales personnel be limited at the site
from noon to 2:00 on Saturdays and Sundays, and suggested changing the hours to
10:00 to 3:00 on Saturdays and Sundays.
Commissioner Tomblin clarified that his motion is that staff do an evaluation of the most
northerly plots to verify there is no setback violation, and that until that evaluation is
complete there be no burials in those north plots. In regards to the 10 — 3 issue, he
noted that three-fourths of the plots have already been sold and there aren't too many
more available. With that, he favored staff's recommendation.
Vice Chairman Nelson asked Commissioner Tomblin if he would be willing to allow a
leaf blower at this site once a week.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed that was a compromise that he could agree with.
Vice Chairman Nelson asked Commissioner Tomblin if he would like to add a condition
that at least one Green Hills employee attend and monitor each service.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed to that modification.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 22
Chairman Leon referred to Ms. Berkowitz's suggestion that small flags be placed on
sites where a burial was scheduled within the week, and the website would have the
burial date and time. He suggested that Green Hills language be used ratherthan
staffs suggested language,
City Attorney Lynch noted that the Green Hills language states that flags will be put on
plots "where feasible", and questioned why it wouldn't ever be feasible. She
recommended striking the words "where feasible".
The Commission agreed,
Chairman Leon noted the other modification made by Green Hills in regards to
landscape maintenance activities requiring use of mechanized equipment, and
separating that from personnel collecting flower and litter.
Commissioner Tomblin agreed to that modification.
Director Rojas explained that staff would come back to the Commission with a
Resolution that memorializes the motion and the revisions to the motion.
Commissioner Tomblin's motion was approved, (6-1) with Commissioner
Gerstner dissenting.
3. Height Variation & Site Plan Review (Case No. ZON2014-00008): 21887 Ella
Rd
Per the Commission rules, since it was after midnight the Commission unanimously
agreed to hear item No. 3,
Associate Planner Mikhail presented the staff report, stating the item has been before
the Commission on two previous occasions and at the last meeting in July the
Commission indicated their remaining concerns with neighborhood compatibility. She
reviewed the history of the project and the series of revisions that have been made, and
discussed the current design that is before the Commission. She stated that staff feels
the applicant has addressed staff's concerns, and if the Commission agrees, staff
recommends the Commission adopt the Resolution before them, She noted that on one
of the last conditions of approval regarding the clearstory window along the north side, it
should say north window and not west window. She stated that there is a decision
deadline with this application, and if the Commission feels the applicant has not
addressed their concerns, there is an alternative resolution available.
Commissioner Tomblin referred to the pop-out window and the flat roof, and noted that
at some point in the future it could become an after-the-fact addition, He asked if that
were to change to a flat window all the way across and the flat roof changed to some
type of a pitched roof, if it would affect staff's recommendation.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 23
Associate Planner Mikhail explained that could potentially change staff's
recommendation because the window would then be there. However, she noted it was
a measure of reasonableness, as staff looks at what is an unreasonable infringement
versus reasonable infringement of privacy. She noted there is a condition of approval
that the area above this particular one-story addition not be used as a deck or balcony
without future Planning Commission approval.
Chairman Leon asked if there was a reason this area of the roof is flat versus pitched.
Associate Planner Mikhail felt this was the design proposed by the applicant, and may
be more consistent with what is there now,
Commissioner Cruikshank asked staff if there was anything stopping a future owner
from doing this or something similar, even though there are conditions of approval that
prohibit it.
Associate Planner Mikhail explained that there are processes in place where the
Planner should look at the address file and past approvals before approving something
like this on a property,
Chairman Leon opened the public hearing.
David Moss felt that anyone who may buy this house in the future and try to make an
amendment to the house that there is a very clear trail as to what can and cannot be
done to the house. In addition, the surrounding neighbors know very well what can and
cannot be done. He felt that a future owner would have to go out of their way and be
incredibly lucky to convert a deck without a permit and without staff or a neighbor
knowing about it. He stated that the neighbor to the north has inspired the architect to
make sure that the second floor mass of the master bedroom has been moved back
seven -1/2 feet and is now parallel to the fagade of the house to the north. In doing that,
he has pushed the south portion of the second floor back an additional five-1/4 feet. He
noted the architect has also designed a very unique angled window for privacy, and he
felt privacy concerns have been mitigated. He stated that he embraces what the staff
has presented in the staff report, He felt that finding No, 6 in regards to potentially
significant view impairment has been satisfied, and that finding No. 8 in regards to bulk
and mass can now be made.
Gerry Hernandez (architect) stated he was available for any questions.
Rostarn Khoshar (owner) stated the project has been significantly downsized and
modified from the original proposed plan, and he will be happy living in a smaller house
that is more compatible with the neighborhood.
Chairman Leon referred to the flat roof over the sunroorn area, and asked Mr. Khoshar
if that was something he desired to have.
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August 12,2014
Page 24
Mr. Khoshar answered it was not necessarily something he wanted, however he
understood it was necessary in order to protect the neighbor's view.
Fatemeh Atary stated she has lived in this neighborhood of one and two-story homes
for many years and has witnessed several new two-story additions. She felt this
proposed addition was compatible with the neighborhood and other two-story homes in
the neighborhood. She agreed with City staff that there is no more privacy, mass, or
view concerns. She felt the new design was attractive and would improve the values of
the homes in the neighborhood. She asked the Commission approve the project as
presented.
Linda Herman (28070 Ella Road) stated her home is several homes to the east on the
opposite side of the street, noting her second story addition was completed about
twenty years ago. She felt the proposed addition is compatible with the neighborhood.
She felt the applicant has done a great deal to minimize the impacts to the neighbors,
and felt the Khoshars should be afforded the opportunity to enlarge their home.
Joe Unk9,gle (28017 Ella Road) stated his home is several homes to the north of the
applicant's home. He stated that he supports the proposed addition, adding that he felt
the original homes were an under-improvement to the area when they were built in
1963. He understood some neighbors did not want to see change in the neighborhood,
however the trend seems to be to fully utilize the location, view, and desirability of the
neighborhood by increasing the living area of the home. He therefore supported the
applicant's request.
Richard He stated he is the neighbor of the proposed project. He stated he continues to
object to the project because of bulk and mass and privacy issues. He showed photos
of the silhouette from his rear yard, noting the neighbor's pad is three feet higher than
his pad and the northwest portion of the proposed project creates a massive fagade as
viewed from his backyard and dining room. He noted a 24 inch projection from the west
fagade that is aligned with his property. He felt there was huge room for improvements
to the design, again noting that the proposed house will be 8% larger than the current
largest house, 44% larger than the average residences listed in the staff report, and
63% larger than the adjacent houses on either side. He noticed a 9 square foot window
along the north fagade has been added that he felt can overlook his property. He stated
that standing in his backyard or dining room he can see the balcony on the second
story, which means that people on the balcony can see him. He stated that in looking at
the plans he cannot tell the difference between the window in the master bedroom and
the two doors accessing the balcony. He felt that as long as anyone has access to the
flat roof it will be a deck which has direct views into his swimming pool, dining room, and
bedroom, and that he would prefer a pitched roof and flat window. He felt that further
efforts were necessary and readily feasible to make the design more compatible with
the neighborhood and to address the privacy issues.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. He to clarify his concerns with the second floor
window.
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August 12,2014
Page 25
Mr. He explained that on the plans the lower edge of the window will be 5 feet 6 inches,
however in the staff report it says it will be 5 feet 3 inches. He felt a lower edge of
approximately 5 feet would provide better privacy for his family.
Commissioner Emenhiser asked Mr. He if he had any future plans to add a second
story to his home.
Mr. He answered that he bought his house a year ago with serious thoughts about this
issue. However he felt his lot could not handle a two-story home as it is best suited for
a ranch style home.
Marice AssaVaq commented that the neighbor is not in denial and not against the
erection with the second story, he only wants to feel comfortable with the second story.
He stated that both Mr. and Mrs. Khoshar's mothers live with them, and it is an honor to
take care of the elderly. He wondered if the neighbors who are giving Mr. Khoshar so
much trouble realize they may one day have to take care of their parents and may find
themselves in the same situation where they need a larger house.
Ishver Naik stated he lives on Ella Road and is opposed to the expansion because it is
a second story addition. He felt all of the other two-story homes in the area are either
original or were modified more than twenty years ago. He was concerned about
mansionization of the neighborhood. He felt that the openness of the neighborhood as
well as the traditional ranch style homes should be preserved. He was also concerned
that the second story additional will obstruct the views presently enjoyed by much of the
neighborhood.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Naik if this addition will cause any view impact to his
property.
Mr. Naik answered that he can see the silhouette from his backyard at a very shallow
angle.
Pat Brewster (28221 Lomo Drive) stated her house is one of the home on Lomo Drive
that the staff identified in their previous two reports as having view impairment if the
proposed addition were approved. She stated that three one-story houses on the west
side on Ella Road can be seen from her living room and all of the one-story houses can
be viewed from various parts of her backyard. She stated she enjoys the ocean view
over these one-story homes. She stated that when staff came to her home the last time
it was on an unclear day and staff didn't get clear pictures. She noted that three one-
story homes to the left of the proposed project can potentially add second stories, and if
all the potential second stories were approved and built, like this proposed addition, she
would almost all of the ocean view. This would cause a lowering of the value of her
home. She discussed the staff report's foliage analysis where staff said trees should be
cut to 16 feet to restore the ocean view for neighboring properties. She questioned if a
tree above 16 feet could cause view impairment, why wouldn't a 21 foot high seconds
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 26
tory addition also cause view blockage. She stated the cumulative view impairment is a
very real threat for her home and several of the neighbors' homes, and she asked why
the applicants couldn't use their slope going down from their back yard to build their
desired addition. She acknowledged this would deprive the owner's the use of some of
their backyard, but it would not deprive the neighbors of their view.
!Pave Schwartz stated she lives almost directly across the street from the subject
property and she supports the proposed addition. She felt that there are now a lot of
adversarial relationships in this once friendly neighborhood, as well as a lot of
complaints to the City, petitions, and counter-petitions, She encouraged everyone to
focus on what we think is very important in our lives and communities and work on
building a better community for our children and ourselves.
Asik Menachenkanian (architect) showed an example of the obscure glass that will be
placed in the window. Regarding the flat roof, he explained a pitched roof will provide
more mass, less light into the neighbor's yard, and will block the window into the master
bedroom. He also explained that the roofing material used on the flat roof will not allow
anyone to walk on it, and there will be no guardrail placed there. He noted that the
photoshop pictures presented by the neighbor are wrong in that they show a person
standing on a deck that does not and will not exist, the second photo shop was wrong
because it was just very unrealistic. He stated he was available for questions.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Menachenkanian if the Commission were to consider
changing the flat roof to a pitched roof and eliminating the window, would the
homeowners agree with the change.
Commissioner Gerstner referred to the proposed floor plan, and explained how he felt
sections of the flat roof could be sloped which he felt would satisfy the neighbor's
concerns.
Kathryn Stinis stated this family is trying to building bedrooms upstairs for their parents.
She questioned how much time people really spend in their bedrooms. She felt this
proposed second story will be an asset to the neighborhood. She stated she fully
supported the proposed addition.
Tony Nafissi stated he bought his home and since then has expanded it to a total of
1,800 square feet. He stated he wished he had expanded it more at the time. He felt
that it is a necessity to have a larger home when there are several children and family
members involved. He stated that from January 1, 1998 to today 764 in Los Verdes
have closed escrow, 453 of which were single story homes and 303 were two-story
homes. He felt that a two story home will increase the property value of the house as
well as the neighboring homes. He stated he fully supports the project that is before the
Commission.
Javad Zafer stated he is in support of the proposed project. In regards to privacy, he
did not think today people have the time to stop and stare into neighboring properties.
Planning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 27
He also thought that adding second floors to homes in the City will only add value to the
homes and to the City.
Robert Wakefield-Carl stated the City and Commission have taken in this application,
reviewed the application, helped the Khoshars's to change their design to meet the
needs of the neighbors, and ensured there is no view impairment. He stated that
everyone has some type of view impairment, whether it by from trees, buildings, cars, or
utilities. He felt it was time to come together as a neighborhood and enjoy one another.
He stated he was in support of this project.
David Moss (in rebuttal) stated that within the 500 foot radius, east of San Nicolas Drive,
there are 10 houses that are two-story homes. Within a 650 foot radius, all on the Ella
side of San Nicolas Drive, there are 20 two-story houses. He stated the mass of the
house has been moved back significantly, they have opened up the entire amount of
blue sky back to where it is today by moving the master bedroom 7-1/2 feet to the east
and moving the south portion of the mass an additional 5-1/4 feet. Now he is hearing
concerns that the Commission may be afraid to allow the applicant a small portion of a
flat roof as they may walk on the flat roof that was designed to be a gravel roof. He also
heard concerns about changing windows to doors. He felt these concerns could clearly
be controlled by the conditions of approval, and didn't want the Commission to think
everyone goes out of their way to violate their conditions of approval. He added that the
pictures shown by Ms. Brewster have already been dismissed by the Commission as
being no accurate for potentially significant view impact. In addition, the houses she
referenced are on the east side of Ella Road and are much closer to her home that the
applicant's home. In regards to the Niak residence, staff has previously identified that
there is no way that the Niak's can see the silhouette from the viewing area of their
home. He agreed that if they walk to the edge of their yard, which is not their viewing
area, they can see the silhouette. He hoped the Commission will be able to make all of
the findings required to approve this project tonight.
Mr. Khoshar stated that as far as the angled window, he was open to go to a flat
window, as he only made the window angled to take care of the privacy issue.
Commissioner Gerstner again referred to the side elevation, and explained his idea of
how to slightly slope the roof on the sides and the remaining flat roof is approximately
one foot above the finished floor of the bedroom. Therefore nobody would want to walk
or stand out there as it is not the same elevation, and it raises the window about one
foot.
Mr. Khoshar did not think that would be a problem, adding that there never was any
intention to climb out the bedroom window to stand an the roof.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that the angled window might give the neighbor more
privacy, but also had no problem with a flat window.
Manning Commission Minutes
August 12,2014
Page 28
Chairman Leon noted that the neighbor had commented that he would rather see the
window further back, which would make it a flat window.
Mr. Khoshar had no problem with making it a flat window.
Commissioner Emenhiser moved to approve the project as recommended by
staff, with the addition of extending the roof of the one-story addition at the rear
of the property to a mansard roof to match the remaining roofline of the
residence, and allowing the window to be angled or flat at the discretion of the
applicant. Seconded by Vice Chairman Nelson.
Associate Planner Mikhail noted that with this motion, condition No. 27 regarding the
angled window will be eliminated. She also noted that condition No. 28 will need to be
modified to reflect the change in the roof line.
The motion was approved, and PC Resolution No. 2014-22 was adopted as
amended, (6-1) with Commissioner James dissenting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
6. July 8, 2014 Minutes
Continued to the August 26, 2014 meeting.
7. July 22, 2014 Minutes
Continued to the August 26, 2014 meeting.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
8. Pre-Agenda for the meeting on August 26, 2014
No action was taken,
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 1:34 a.m.
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August 12,2014
Page 29