PC MINS 20121211 Approved
January W, 2013
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
DECEMBER 11, 2012
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tetreault at 7:21 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Gerstner led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Leon, Vice Chairman Emenhiser, and Chairman
Tetreault.
Absent-, Commissioners Lewis, Nelson, and Tomblin were excused
Also present were Community Development Director Rojas, Deputy Community
Development Director Pfost, and Senior Planner Schonborn.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Director Rojas distributed two items of correspondence for agenda item No. 3.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-agenda items):
None
CONSENT CALENDAR
1. General Plan ConsistencV Finding — Cherry Hill lot purchase
Director Rojas stated that the City Manager's office has asked that this item be removed
from the agenda, but will return on a future agenda.
The item was removed from the agenda without objection.
CONTINUED BUSINESS
2. Conditional Use Permit (Case Nos. ZON2012-00067 and SUB20112-000011):
5601 Crestridge Road
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, giving a brief description of the
project and reviewing the direction given by the Planning Commission at the November
13, 2012 meeting. He explained how the Commission's concerns had been addressed
by both the applicant and by staff, which included the issue of the entry tower, the
construction timeline and phasing, the parcelization of the Tentative Tract Map,
conditions of approval regarding the trails at the site, conditions regarding the lighting at
the site, photo sims to illustrate maximum foliage height, a condition included requiring a
one-year review of the operational aspect of the development, and a condition requiring
the CC&Rs be reviewed and approved by the City Attorney. He discussed a letter
received from Congregation Ner Tamid expressing privacy concerns and staff's opinion
that an eight-foot tall privacy wall, as requested, is not warranted to address this issue.
Director Rojas added that, while there is a condition of approval regarding a review of
the exterior lighting, he explained that staff and the developer's emphasis and focus is
making sure the lighting placed on the buildings is adequate and meets the City's
requirements. He pointed out an added condition that requires a lighting plan be
submitted to the City for review.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
James O'Malley (applicant) stated he has embraced and appreciated all of the
comments from the neighbors on this project. He stated that he endorses the staff
report and the conditions of approval. He commented that he looks forward to moving
ahead with this project and making the community a part of the City.
Steven Millet (representing Congregation Ner Tamid) explained the property touches
the project site on the northwest side, noting this has not been mentioned in any of the
documents. He would like this to be noted. He was concerned with staff's
recommendation that no fencing was necessary in the area, as the brush will be cleared
and will leave the area open to dust and contaminants from grading and construction.
He was also concerned about people looking over at the children in the pre-school
playground, which is why they are asking for a minimum eight-foot tall fence. He would
like to ask the exact use of the community garden and if there will be any type of
chemical or insecticide use near the children in the pre-school.
Director Rojas displayed a site plan showing the proposed project property as well as
the Congregation Ner Tamid. He pointed out the proposed community garden area and
the existing fence line and substantial landscaping area between the two properties. He
stated that during a site visit to the community garden area he was not able to see over
the fence and landscaping to see onto the playground. He also showed the public trail
Planning Commissicn Minutes
December 111.2012
Page 2
area, noting the community garden will be between the trail and the Congregation Ner
Tamid property.
Robert Rockoff (5525 Seaside Heights) discussed the height of the trees. He asked
that a provision to the conditions of approval be added that in the event the foliage is
close to more than one structure, the foliage height shall not exceed the lowest roof
ridge. He felt this would help the developer to determine approximate mature height
foliage to be planted and would enable the HOA to gauge and self-regulate the foliage
heights. It would also ensure that any off-site viewing property, no matter what their
angle of view of the development, would see foliage no higher than the roof ridge line.
He did not agree with staff's suggestion that the foliage be kept at a level below the
yellow line depicted on a photo simulation. He felt this method may increase the
likelihood of issues and disputes, as this method seems too imprecise and subject to
misinterpretation, He also felt that black and white copies of such copies given with the
CC&Rs would have a diminished quality. He also did not think the HOA would be able
to achieve self-regulation in regards to foliage heights.
Chairman Tetreault asked Mr. Rockoff to clarify how his method of determining
maximum tree height is different from staff's suggestion.
Mr. Rockoff explained that his idea limits the height of the trees to the height of the
ridgeline of the roof on all buildings.
Chairman Tetreault asked from what perspective this height would be determined.
Mr. Rockoff answered that it could be determined by just driving down the street and
see if the foliage is higher than the roof.
Linda Davis (5575 Mistridge) stated her concern was that her view be completely
preserved. She commented that when Belmont was constructed it was discovered
there was a bunker under the property and the building height was therefore raised to a
level much higher than the residents anticipated. She hoped that there would be no
issues with this project which would result in higher building heights. She hoped the
foliage would be limited and maintained to the roof ridgelines to preserve the views of
the neighbors above. She referred to staff's photo with the yellow line drawn on it,
noting it was taken from her yard. She questioned if city staff would have to enter her
yard every time there was a question as to whether or not the foliage was in
compliance. She also discussed the hours of operation and grading, and hoped that
these hours took into consideration the residents and the school hours.
James O'Malley (in rebuttal) stated that, in regards to Mr. Millet's comments, the
community garden is the most passive use of the land that he has ever created on a
project and felt it would work quite well at the site as proposed. In regards to Mr.
Rockoff's comments, he felt that there are numerous methods that can be used to
gauge the height of the trees, but was satisfied with staff's suggested method. He
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 3
noted that one of the most important aspects of the vegetation will be the species of tree
that is selected. He also stated that comments by Ms. Davis were well taken.
Commissioner Leon asked Mr. O'Malley if he had plans to put any type of fencing
around the community garden area.
Mr. O'Malley answered that he did not plan to put fencing around the community
garden.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser noted Mr. Millet's concerns in regards to the privacy issues
surrounding the children's playground at Congregation Ner Tamid. He asked Mr.
O'Malley if he had any solutions to that particular issue,
Mr. O'Malley did not see this as an issue at all. He felt there is a natural grade break as
well as an existing fence and existing vegetation. He could not think of a more passive
use for the area and a nice addition to the community.
Director Rojas displayed a photo showing the proposed garden area, the existing
vegetation, and the fencing behind the vegetation. He stated that staff did not see what
the developer could do to enhance that area since the playground is already screened.
Chairman Tetreault asked if the photo taken by staff shown on the screen was depicting
finished grade.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the photo depicts finished grade and the the
existing finished grade may be slightly lower after the area is cleared and grubbed. He
added there could be a condition of approval that any grading in this area will be only to
grub the site. He also referred to the grading plan, which shows no grading at that area.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked staff what remedies will be available to the residents if
there is grading or construction occurring outside of the approved hours.
Senior Planner Schonborn clarified that there are two separate aspects to the project,
grading and construction, The grading component has more restrictive hours of
operation, that being 8:15 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. Monday through Friday,
Director Rojas added the City will require the developer to post a sign on the property
giving a phone number to call if there are any concerns regarding the construction at the
site, If there is no remedy, the resident can then call the City.
Commissioner Gerstner asked to go through condition Nos. 71 through 80, which
address the exterior lighting. In looking at the conditions he noted that what the City
should be looking for is a foot candle estimate for the entire property. In regards to the
color temperature, his recommendation was to get all of the lighting within a certain
range rather than the lighting ranging from 1700 to 4500. He felt a reasonable range
was 2800 to 3700. He particularly liked the sentence describing how one should not be
Plarning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 4
able to see the light source, but rather the light was shielded and one was seeing
reflected light. He thought that should be reiterated in condition No. 76.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff to discuss condition Nos. 75 and 7, specifically the 42
inches above existing grade height limitation versus No.77 which states any exterior
lighting shall not exceed five feet in height.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained the intent for condition No. 75 was more
applicable to lights on a building, where No. 77 addresses lights throughout the facility
not on buildings.
Chairman Tetreault felt that No. 77 should be better defined.
Chairman Tetreault referred to Ms. Davis' comments regarding grading during the
periods of time when school lets out, and asked staff to comment.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained this was looked at in the environmental process,
which resulted in the recommended 8:15 to 4:15 hours. He stated that if there are
additional measures the Commission would like to add this can be discussed with the
Public Works Department where they may want to add conditions of flagging during
certain hours or other mitigation measures as needed.
Director Rojas explained that haul routes are reviewed and approved by the Public
Works Department, and if the Planning Commission would like to emphasize their
concerns with school traffic, the Commission may want to add a condition of approval
that directs Public Works review the haul routes and traffic situations at the site on an
ongoing basis.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that he has no issues with the Environmental Impact
Report, as he felt it adequately covered the issues at the site. He explained that his
issues are with the specifics related to the conditions of approval,
Vice Chairman Emenhiser moved to approve staff's recommendation, seconded
by Commissioner Leon, noting that he expected there would be discussion on the
conditions of approval.
Commissioner Gerstner offered an amendment that the conditions of approval be
modified such that where there is discussion about the front gate remaining unlocked for
the purposes of the trail easement, that any rear gate or fence be named in the same
condition.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser accepted that amendment, seconded by Commissioner
Leon.
Planning commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 5
Senior Planner Schonborn suggested the following language be added to the end of
condition No. 63: Public access to the trail shall not be impeded by a fence, gate, or
any other structure,
Chairman Tetreault referred to condition No. 55, asking that language be included that a
review of the hours or other mitigating factors with respect to construction hours takes
place when necessary,
Commissioner Leon expressed concern about trucks driving by the high school. He felt
8:15 adequately addresses the morning arrival at the high school. He noted, however,
that the high school day ends at 3:00 at was concerned that trucks will still be hauling
dirt past the high school at that time which he felt will dramatically impact the traffic.
Senior Planner Schonborn felt that adding more restrictions to the export will prolong
the grading well past the projected eight month time period. He also noted that this was
addressed in the EIR through a traffic sampling, which concluded that even during the
peak afternoon hours there will not be a significant impact to the traffic.
Chairman Tetreault asked that, in regards to condition No. 55, there be some review of
these issues as the project is going on, and if it is determined there is a public safety
issue, modifications can be imposed upon the developer.
Senior Planner Schonborn added that Belmont and Mirandela used this same truck
route when they did the grading on their properties. He looked in the files and spoke to
Public Works, and found that there were no impacts associated with those grading
projects,
Vice Chairman Emenhiser accepted the Chairman's friendly amendment. However
Commissioner Leon preferred to have stronger wording so that the issue was not just
between Public Works and the developer. He suggested wording that the schools have
some sort of ability to comment on the subject. He therefore did not second the friendly
amendment.
Chairman Tetreault moved on to the possible conflict between condition Nos. 75 and
77, noting staff will change the wording in condition No. 75 to make it consistent with the
wording in condition No. 77.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested modifying the language in condition No. 75 by
striking the words "with no eaves" and adding at the end of the condition "excepting
recessed light fixtures in the ceilings above exterior balconies."
Vice Chairman Emenhiser accepted the amendment, seconded by Commissioner Leon.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested the requirement in the last sentence of condition No.
72 be added to the items the Director is looking to review in condition No. 76.
Planning Commisston Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 6
Vice Chairman Emenhiser accepted the amendment, seconded by Commissioner Leon.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested changing the word "lighting contractor" to "lighting
consultant" in condition No. 72. He also suggested removing the words "estimates of
maximum illumination on the site" and replacing it with "foot candles by area."
Vice Chairman Emenhiser and Commissioner Leon accepted the amendment.
Commissioner Gerstner also suggested removing the words "high pressure sodium
lights" and replacing them with "light fixtures", He also suggested changing "less than
4500 kelvin" to "a range of 2700 to 3700 kelvin".
Vice Chairman Emenhiser and Commissioner Leon accepted the amendment.
Commissioner Leon noted there had been several public comments in regards to tree
height, and how it is measured. He discussed staff's proposed yellow line and felt it
was the appropriate way to measure tree height, but thought it should be called
something other than the yellow line. He suggested wording saying the trees would be
limited to the height of the ridgeline of the specific condominiums on the ridge.
Senior Planner Schonborn noted there are different buildings and different ridgelines,
showing that all of the highest ridgelines are not all concentrated in the back.
Director Rojas explained that 20 years ago staff may have attempted to write conditions
as described by Commissioner Leon. However, through technology staff has found that
drawing a line on a photograph has been successful. In addition, once a tree is trimmed
there is usually a trim line on the tree for future trimming. Staff feels in a project such as
this with multiple buildings and multiple ridgelines that can be misinterpreted through the
years with someone trying to read a condition, that this is a better option,
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked if the yellow line is based on the highest ridgeline of
the development.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the yellow line is based on the highest visible
ridgelines, as viewed from each of the points.
Chairman Tetreault noted that the City is trying to protect views, not keep trees below a
certain height, and in order to do so it is not a fixed point that is being discussed. The
view will be dependent on wherever the view is being taken from,
Commissioner Gerstner felt that if staff feels this is the easiest and best way to enforce
the tree issue, he will support their recommendation. He also felt that allowing other
trees that don't cross this line to grow up taller to help obscure the light and other
impacts of this development is beneficial to the neighbors.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 7
Chairman Tetreault suggested additional language for condition No. 55 as follows:
Public Works takes into consideration school traffic along the haul route and has the
ability to modify the haul route and times of operation or impose other conditions in the
interest of public safety.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser accepted the proposed amendment, seconded by
Commissioner Leon.
Chairman Tetreault re-opened the public hearing to allow the applicant to address and
comment on the Planning Commission's discussion.
Mr. O'Malley felt that everything discussed is smart and has the proper intent, He
stated that he had previously talked to the principal at the high school who stated she
did not have any concerns or issues with the previous two projects adjacent to this
project during their grading and construction phases. The principal also explained that
the peak traffic period at the school is the morning drop-off period, while the afternoon
traffic is much more sporadic. He asked the principal to witness the traffic patterns
during the grading period, and if there are problems to contact Senior Planner
Schonborn, He discussed the dust and air quality at the site, noting that it is a major
issue for the contractors, and he was confident there would be no problems. He
discussed condition No. 72 and felt the current condition was clear and concise. He
stated that they will definitely comply with all city regulations and will shield lights at this
project and be sensitive to both the local and long distance neighbors.
Commissioner Gerstner noted balconies that extend out from the building, and asked
Mr. O'Malley what type of lighting would be on these types of balconies. He noted that,
from his point of view, he was not sure there should be lighting on this type of exterior
balcony.
Mr. O'Malley explained this is an example of an area that an exterior light may be
required on these balconies per the Building Code, however if the Code does require
lights they will be shielded. He also noted that the Building Code may require balcony
lighting at a certain height.
Chairman Tetreault discussed the height of lights and the Commission agreed that the
height of the lights on buildings would not exceed seven feet, and the lights not on
buildings would not exceed five feet in height,
Dan Withee wanted to make sure that this condition will still give him the ability to put
down lights in the covered balconies upstairs.
Commissioner Gerstner suggested changing the wording slightly to allow for a ceiling
light in the second floor covered balconies.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 8
The motion to recommend the City Council certify the ECR (PC Resolution 2012-
022) and recommending the City Council conditionally approve the project, as
conditioned (PC Resolution 2012-023), was approved, (4-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
3. General Plan uRdate — Review proposed changes to the existing Land Use
Map regarding the location of the Hillside (Hazard) land use boundary
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining staff has been receiving
quite a few questions from the public regarding the background of these proposed
changes and why staff felt these changes were necessary. With that, he gave a brief
presentation on the General Plan's discussion of hazard designations within the City.
He discussed the Zoning Code and the Zoning Map, which are the implementation tools
of the General Plan, He explained that in updating the General Plan staff identified a
variety of inconsistencies between the Zoning Code mapping and the General Plan
mapping. He stated that staff asked the City Geologist to evaluate the Open Space
Hazard area designations and boundaries, and explained the criteria used by the City
Geologist in doing so. He explained that the result of this evaluation was that there are
slightly over 1,000 properties in the City that required some sort of adjustment. Of those
1,000 properties, approximately two-thirds required adjustments where the boundary
would be taken off of the property or off of developable areas and the remaining third
would actually be an expansion of boundary. He briefly reviewed the Planning
Commission's direction to staff at the September 25th meeting. He explained that staff
would be reviewing proposed changes with the Planning Commission over a series of
meetings, and that tonight's objective was to cover 260 properties, focusing on three
different canyon areas. He displayed aerial photographs of the canyons reflecting the
current designations as well as the proposed changes. He noted that these proposed
changes are not final, as this will be a Planning Commission recommendation on a
General Plan update to the City Council.
Commissioner Gerstner asked if the new line crosses over any existing structures,
balconies, or patios.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that the proposed new line does not cross over any
structures or improvements.
Commissioner Leon noted that it appears this was done at a relatively small scale and
felt there were a few instances where the line was placed right over a property to make
it into a consistent line at that scale. He therefore recommended the Commission go
over this very carefully, expanding the scale and looking at the aerials to make sure no
patios or structures were affected,
Deputy Director Pfost explained that staff has gone over this several times at a larger
scale, noting that it would take a lot of time to present 260 individual properties to the
Planning commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 9
Planning Commission. He added that he can show individual sites with quite good
detail if that was the Commission's decision.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Carol Falstrup (49 3/4 Rockinghorse Road) noted that the current proposed line
encroaches onto approximately half of her property. From her perspective that will
decrease the value of her property as it takes away the possibility of development in
that area, She felt that this was putting a burden on her as a property owner, as she
now must hire a geologist, a surveyor, and an attorney in order to do her own homework
to confirm the City's determinations. She also noted that at 49 1/4Rockinghorse Road is
an open lot and the proposed line will be encroaching onto that property as well.
Because the line is removing the ability to build a house, it is pushing the house up the
hill towards the road, which will them loom over her home. She asked what is driving
the City to put more land into this category. She asked what the City's long term
intentions are for this land, are there trails proposed at the bottom of the canyon or
public access. She asked if staff had done site visits or if this was all done with aerial
photographs. Finally, she asked what the timing for the completion of this project was.
George Winston stated his concerns were for 28160 Palos Verdes Drive East. He
recalled at the last hearing there were several options and it may be helpful to have
those options displayed again this evening. He stated that one of those options was to
take no action at all. He asked what the driving force was behind these changes and
who would be benefiting in the long run. He asked if the City needed to go through all
of this for the sake of consistency. He was concerned the hazard area was being
removed from some properties where it might over-arch some structure that is already
there. He did not think it was reasonable that in some areas it's ok because there is a
structure already there and in other areas it's not ok to put up a new structure. He was
concerned about the decrease in property values by simply having a label on the
property, as well as the potential for increases in insurance costs. He noted that plans
have been drawn up for the property at 28160 Palos Verdes Drive East, and this
change may impact those plans.
John McCowan stated he was representing himself at 2064 Galerita as well as his
adjacent neighbors at 2161 Santa Rena and 2158 Santa Rena. He felt these properties
are negatively impacted, as the line is being placed on areas where there is not a 35
percent grade. He explained that he had run tape on the rear slope to confirm the slope
is not 35 percent. He noted that on this section of property he had plans to build a
swimming pool and develop the area. He noted that the same is true for his neighbors,
as the line is proposed on flat or slightly sloping areas of their properties.
Adel Salehpour stated he was also speaking in regards to 28160 Palos Verdes Drive
East. He asked if there has been any major seismic activity within the proposed areas
which may prompt the City to take this action. He felt this proposal will negatively affect
property values and eventually affect appraisals. He also felt this proposal could halt
remodels and new additions on homes, which will affect revenues to the City. He asked
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11, 2012
Page 10
if geology reports would be required to repair broken property line walls that are in the
hazard areas. Finally, he asked if the proposed Crestridge condominiums previously
discussed by the Commission would be affected by this change,
Don Dvorin (49 1/2Rockinghorse Road) understood the City already restricts
development of the sensitive hillside areas in question. It was unclear to him what is
being gained by going through this process of creating a new overlay. He felt the City
should use the tools currently available to them to impose restrictions on a lot by lot
basis, rather than doing a blanket overlay that seems to be raising quite a few issues.
His biggest issue, however, was in respect to the vacant lot next door to him at 49 '/4
Rockinghorse Road. He felt that the City has taken the pad footprint that was proposed
from the previous applicant and locked it in as the boundary line for this new open
space. He vigorously opposed that footprint and wants it moved down the canyon
several feet, explaining that for every foot that house will be moved down the canyon
the ridgeline as viewed from his house drops two or three feet. He also noted that the
lot flattens out towards the bottom of the canyon. He felt the City is giving him the
burden of a pad location that he didn't like in the first place, with none of the benefits
and concessions that the Planning Department was able to get in connection with the
permit application.
David Lukac stated he agrees with everything that has been said by the previous
speakers. He noted that the proposed plan puts approximately half of his property into
the hazard zone and, as an equestrian, he asked if that will then deduct from his
acreage in regards to his ability to keep horses on his property. He also asked how the
old hazard designation was determined and how that methodology was different from
what is being done today. He felt that property owners should have the right to ask the
City Geologist to come to their property to make a determination rather than use
computerized technology.
Ray Van Dinther stated she also agrees with everything that has been said by the
speakers, She noted that over the past 30 to 35 years many improvements have been
made on these proper-ties in one way or another, and a lot of areas the City may think
are extreme slopes or unusable land are in fact very useable land, and in many cases,
very flat land. The bottoms of the canyons are flat, and she explained that many of the
properties go down one side of the canyon and back up the other side. She did not
think these decisions could be made by looking at a two-dimensional piece of paper or a
three-dimensional picture from the sky. She felt someone must walk the properties and
determine exactly what is on each property.
Madeline Ryan agreed this approach should not be taken with these properties. She
noted that it is very important to her that the City maintain the equestrian overlay zoning
in the area, She felt that any portion of any property that is rezoned to Open Space
Hillside that would prevent them from keeping a large domestic property or building a
structure to keep that animal in, is unacceptable. She stated there are numerous errors
on some of the properties, and that the City Geologist should physically visit these
properties,
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 11.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser explained that the City embarked on this effort to try to
correct the current map, however he continues to have a number of reservations about
the process. He discussed the various concerns expressed by the speakers and felt
that the process needs to be changed, as it does not appear to be working.
Chairman Tetreault explained that he wrote down the questions and concerns of the
speakers and would now go through and address these questions with staff. He began
with the comment that 666 properties benefit from this change as they have an increase
in useable land, while 374 properties have hillside area introduced or increased on their
properties. He asked if there is any quota to this, or any formula to achieve an end
result.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that it was simply a matter of going through the map
property by property, with no formula or end results,
Chairman Tetreault asked if this was the first step towards something else the City may
have in mind, such as the introduction of public trails at the base of the canyons.
Deputy Director Pfost answered there is no such intention.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff when this will go to the City Council and when will a final
decision be made.
Deputy Director Pfost explained that this will eventually go before the City Council,
estimating the Planning Commission could finish up with the Land Use Map in February
or March and the entire package going before the Council some time in the summer.
Chairman Tetreault noted a speaker's question as to what the driving force was behind
this process.
Deputy Director Pfost explained there has not been an update to the General Plan in 38
years and in the existing General Plan when the open space hazard designation was
plotted it fell on flat areas of properties and the City is trying to update the map to be
consistent with the criteria discussed in the General Plan. He stated that this is a
process of identifying the errors in the General Plan Land Use Map and trying to correct
those errors,
Chairman Tetreault gave a hypothetical situation in which a resident, who currently has
an area on their property not in the hazard zone and would like to build on that area, but
with these changes the area will now be in the hillside area and they can't build on that
area. He asked what process that resident would go through now to get approvals and
what process that resident will have to go through if these changes are approved.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 11,2012
Page 12
Deputy Director Pfost explained a swimming pool, or any other structure, cannot
currently be built on an extreme slope. The only change will be that the extreme slope
will be designated as open space hillside. Using the example of a deck over an
extreme slope, he explained currently one can build a deck not exceeding six feet over
an extreme slope. Under this new designation, staff is proposing to continue to allow
the deck to go over an extreme slope up to six feet. The only thing staff was taking
away was the option to apply for a Variance to allow a deck more than six feet over the
extreme slope,
Chairman Tetreault asked how a property owner can dispute the City's findings and
show that they do not have an extreme slope on their property.
Deputy Director Pfost explained there is a provision in the Development Code to move
that line up to 100 feet through an interpretation procedure. However, he has heard
from the speakers regarding three areas of concern, and staff can have the City
Geologist do a site visit and see if any adjustments are warranted.
Chairman Tetreault asked if any of these lines are affected by a history of seismic
activity,
Deputy Director Pfost did not believe any major seismic activity has occurred that
warranted where the lines would be place. The City Geologist mainly looked at the
steepness of the slope, canyons, and blue line streams. He also looked at bedding
planes and topography of the area.
Chairman Tetreault asked how this designation affects the ability for horse keeping on
these properties.
Deputy Director Pfost acknowledged that many of these properties are in the Q District,
and this will not affect the number of horses allowed on the property as that is
determined by the acreage of the property, which will not change. The only thing that
may change is the location of any barns on the property. He noted that barns cannot
now, or with this proposal, be built on extreme slopes. He also noted that several
speakers pointed out that at the bottom of these canyons there are some flatter areas.
He agreed, but noted that they are actually blue line streams and structures should not
be constructed at the bottom of those canyons.
Chairman Tetreault noted a speaker asked if this will affect the proposed Crestridge
project.
Deputy Director Pfost explained that staff has not completed the study on that side of
the City, but was aware there may be extreme slope on the back slope of the project.
He noted, however, that was an area of City owned land.
Commissioner Gerstner felt it was very important for the City Geologist to go out and
look at any property where the owner felt the new lines were incorrectly located and to
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December 11,2012
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verify that the line has been placed in accordance with the criteria that has been
established. He agreed with the criteria being used and also agreed that a jagged line
through properties, as opposed to a straight line, was acceptable.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser felt this was a well-intentioned, but mistaken effort to correct
a problem and is unnecessarily generating anxiety among the property owners. He felt
a better solution had to be found.
Commissioner Gerstner felt that if the Planning Commission is going to change their
course, he would rather do so when the entire Commission is present. He stated that
he would be in favor of directing staff to get this closer to being right, given the criteria
already agreed upon. When this is then brought back before the Commission, if one of
the Commissioners wants to then address the broader question, then the broader
question will be readdressed.
Chairman Tetreault explained that staff and the Commission are aware that the lines
that were originally drawn over 35 years ago were not accurate. Since we know that is
true, he felt it was important to do something to correct it, as it will be to the benefit to
those property owners that the line adversely affects. He felt the City has an obligation
to the property owners to do this correctly, and he felt that while this has been a good
attempt, it is still inaccurate as to a number of properties. He also noted that the
proposal puts the burden on the property owner to prove that their property should not
be restricted in this fashion. He noted that in the staff report, option No, 3 suggests
moving forward with adjusting the hazard lines as recommended, but only for those
properties where the hazard land use area decreases. There would then be no
detrimental effect to any property owner. He felt this option was the only one that could
be used to move forward. He stated that he fully appreciates the reasons why the City
is doing this and it is with the best of intentions; however, he was not comfortable with
the results.
Director Rojas explained that for years residents have been telling staff that the hazard
line on their property is incorrectly placed. In order to address the problem in a
consistent manner, staff knew that most residents would be happy to see the line on
their property better located and some residents would be upset. To mitigate this, staff
has proposed a system where no property rights will be taken away. The areas on a
property that currently cannot be developed will be the same with the new designation.
Notwithstanding that, he noted some good points have been brought up by individuals
and staff can look at these individual cases to ensure the proposed line has been
properly placed. He explained that the only difference resulting from this proposal is
that a Variance will not be available for certain proposed construction. He also noted
that the cost of a Variance is $5,000 and the request must be heard by the Planning
Commission. However, the process to adjust the line on a property without a Variance
is a Director decision and the City Council directed that the fee be less than $500.
Therefore, staff feels the remedy to address these concerns is actually easier with the
option currently before the Commission. He explained that this item can come back to
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December 11,2012
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the Commission on January 22nd, and between now and then the City Geologist can
visit the properties in question.
Commissioner Gerstner moved to continue the public hearing to the January 22,
2013 meeting, and directed staff to work with the City Geologist to review and
refine the proposed maps as necessary, seconded by Vice Chairman Emenhiser.
Approved, (4-0).
4. General Plan update — Review proposed changes to the existing Land Use
Map pertaining to specific residential planned developments.
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining staff has identified six areas
in the City identified as residential planned developments that were built after the City
was incorporated and after the General Plan and Zoning Code were created. Staff has
found these planned developments have two land use districts on them when they
should only have one, and noted the land use designations should have been changed
when the development was entitled. He used the Seabreeze Tract as an example,
showing how the two land use designations and how the boundary line, on some lots,
actually bifurcates the properties and even structures. Therefore, some properties
actually have dual land use designations. He explained that staff is proposing to
combine each of these six RPDs into one land use district, which they should be
according to their density. He stated that staff has notified all homeowners and HOAs
within the RPDs and has received no correspondence that is opposed to the proposed
change.
Chairman Tetreault asked if there was any downside, or if it would adversely affect any
of the properties.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that there is no downside and no properties would be
adversely affected.
Director Rojas added that the City regulates the tracts based on the conditions of the
tract rather than the zoning.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser moved to approved staff's recommendation, seconded
by Commissioner Leon. Approved, (4-0).
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
51 Minutes of November 13, 2012
Vice Chairman Emenhiser moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Leon. The minutes were approved as presented, (3-0), with Chairman
Tetreault abstaining.
6. Minutes of November 27, 2012
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December 11,2012
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Vice Chairman Emenhiser moved to approve the minutes as presented, seconded by
Commissioner Leon. Approved, (3-0) with Commissioner Gerstner abstaining.
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
7. Pre-Agenda for the January 8, 2013 meetinq
The pre-agenda was reviewed and approved,
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:02 p.m.
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