PC MINS 20120522 Approved
June 26, 2012
CITY OF RANCHO PALOS VERDES
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 22, 2012
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Tetreault at 7:05 p.m. at the Fred Hesse
Community Room, 29301 Hawthorne Boulevard.
FLAG SALUTE
Commissioner Nelson led the assembly in the Pledge of Allegiance.
ATTENDANCE
Present: Commissioners Gerstner, Leon, Lewis, Nelson, Tomblin, Vice Chairman
Emenhiser, and Chairman Tetreault.
Absent: None
Also present were Deputy Community Development Director Pfost, Senior Planner
Schonborn, and Associate Planner Kim
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
The agenda was unanimously approved as presented.
COMMUNICATIONS
Deputy Director Pfost distributed 13 items of late correspondence related to agenda
item No. 2 and one item of late correspondence related to agenda item No. 3.
COMMENTS FROM THE AUDIENCE (regarding non-anenda items):
None
CONTINUED BUSINESS
I. A
ppeal of Site Plan Review and Grading Permit (Case No. ZON2011-00242):
7 Seacove Drive
Associate Planner Kim presented a brief staff report, giving a history of the project and
the reasons for the continuance to this date. She reminded the Commission that staff
had felt no information was presented by the appellants that wasn't already raised and
addressed at the five previous Coastal Hearings Officer meetings. Staff was therefore
recommending the Planning Commission deny the appeal and uphold the Coastal
Hearings Officer's recommendation of approval.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing,
Janet Yamamoto (appellant) stated she was not only representing herself, but many
others who attended the pre-planning meetings. She felt that many of the conclusions
drawn by the Planning Department to meet the City's standards and guidelines seems
to be the sole interpretation of the few in the Planning Department. She felt the
proposed home, with the very modern design, is completely out of character with the
neighborhood. However, her main concern is the bulk and mass of the proposed
house. She explained that the project encompasses the entire rear lot. It will also set
precedence by being the largest home in the neighborhood. She questioned how this
project falls within the City's guidelines, and noted that in her appeal she has listed six
areas where she has found bulk and mass to be an issue. She stated she is not
opposed to a home being built on this site, however she expected it to meet all of the
guidelines of the City and not be the largest one in the neighborhood.
Chairman Tetreault noted that a house had previously been approved on the lot that
was much larger than the currently proposed residence. He stated that at that time
there was no opposition, and asked Ms. Yamamoto if she was living in the
neighborhood at the time the previous house was approved.
Ms. Yamamoto answered that she was living in the neighborhood at the time, however
the original design did not appear as large or bulky as the current proposal.
Michael Lee (project architect) showed several photos of the property as well as other
homes in the neighborhood. He noted that the house next door is the smallest house in
the neighborhood, and it was unfortunate that his house was being judged against the
smallest home in the neighborhood. He showed site plans of the different designs that
had been proposed for the property and the changes that have been made, He noted
that the home has been lowered to the point that there now appears to be a problem
with drainage out of the rear yard, and wondered if the house height could be raised.
John Phillips (property owner) felt there have been numerous misrepresentations made
on the part of the appellants. He stated that his proposed residence will not be the
largest in the neighborhood, but rather the fourth largest within the twenty closest
homes. He also noted that his proposed residence is not the largest in terms of lot
coverage and is well below the allowable lot coverage. He stated that his home will not
block any views from any of the neighbors' residences and there are no privacy issues.
He stated that the biggest concerns came from the neighbor next door, and he is now
happy with the design.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 2
Commissioner Lewis asked Mr. Phillips if he wanted the Planning Commission to make
a decision on the plan before them, or if he was suggesting a modification to the design
to address the potential drainage problems.
Mr. Phillips answered that he would like the Commission to make a decision. He noted
that the current house is so far below the allowable height limit, that being allowed to
raise the height just slightly to get drainage would be helpful. If that isn't possible, he
would understand.
David Walbeck stated he has written a letter in support of the project, however a
speaker at the last meeting felt the letter was an invalid support letter. He explained
that his concern is that someone in the City is attempting to build a house that is smaller
than allowed, lower than allowed, is supported by City staff, and still having this much
difficultly getting approved. He felt that if a proposed residence conforms to the rules of
the City, it should be allowed to be built.
Michael Stuge supported the project, as it is eco-friendly and sets a good example for
building a home in the neighborhood.
Lynn Swank stated her home is across the street, and is not considered a part of the
neighborhood. She stated she was very impressed that the architect and owner went to
the neighbors to talk about the project and sign a petition, however there was never an
attempt to discuss the plans. She stated there are several reasons she opposes the
project, including the bulk and mass of the project. She noted that staff did not feel
CEQA was required, however she pointed out that the gully behind the property is a
wildlife corridor. She stated that if the Commission does approve the project, she was
requesting some mitigation that was not included in the staff report. She requested
there be no work on Saturdays; that concerns of parking construction vehicles in front of
neighboring residences be addressed; that a full time traffic safety person be available
to direct traffic at Palos Verdes Drive South and Seacove Drive; that neighboring
driveways not be used by the construction vehicles to make turnarounds; that the
developer put a chain across her entire property so that nobody can go on it unless she
lets them in; and that a porta potty be required on the property for the workers.
Corinne Gerrard stated that she had attended the previous meeting and became
curious. She checked the title on twenty houses on Seacove Drive and found that nine
of those twenty are over 3,000 square feet and one being 5,000 square feet. She felt
the proposed house is very reasonable in comparison to the twenty houses on
Seacove. She noted that many of the existing houses have a similar design to the one
proposed. She also noted that she does not know either the applicant or the appellants
in this case.
Bill Swank stated that all of the houses on the ocean side of Seacove Drive have to be
excluded, as they are not part of the neighborhood compatibility analysis. As such, of
the twenty houses that Ms. Gerrard looked at, most of them were probably on the ocean
side of the street. He stated that neighborhood compatibility is part of the code, not
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 3
something that is outside of the code that staff can apply. Therefore, even though the
house may meet code requirements, the question should also be asked as to whether
or not the house is compatible with the neighborhood. He did not think the house is
compatible with the neighborhood because of the bulk and mass. He felt that to
mitigate the bulk and mass the lot could be graded to street level, as it is currently three
to four feet above street level.
Shannon Hartman (appelllant) stated her concern is the bulk and mass of the proposed
residence. She questioned if this will open up a trend that this neighborhood really
doesn't want to see. She stated that this is a large house on a small lot and all she is
trying to do is watch out for her neighbors and the neighborhood and look into the future
to make sure this is the best house for the neighborhood.
Chairman Tetreault noted that Ms. Hartman's main concerns appear to be the bulk and
mass of the proposed residence. Since the proposed residence is an L shaped
building, he didn't think that most of the house would be visible from the street. Further,
reducing the size of the house would not seem to lessen the look of the house from the
street since the front fagade would still be there. If bulk and mass is the main concern,
he asked Ms. Hartman what it is about the bulk and mass that she objects to.
Ms. Hartman explained that it depends on how far back she cuts her trees as to how
much of the house she will be able to see. If the trees are cut back to a certain level
she will be able to see everything on the lot. If a portion of the back of the house were
to be removed that would alleviate some of the issues for the neighbors down the street.
She also thought that grading the property lower would help reduce the bulk and mass
as seen from the street.
Karl MacMillen stated he has known the Phillips family for over 60 years and felt the
family does quality work. He stated that if the plan meets the minimum standards of the
Code, he felt the City should welcome the new construction,
Rick Carl stated he built his home at 42 Seacove Drive a few years ago and
understands everything involved in building new construction in the neighborhood. He
felt the proposed project fits into the neighborhood with no problem. He explained the
neighborhood is made up of several styles of homes, including modern, classic, and old.
He therefore felt that neighborhood compatibility is a non-issue. He felt the owner has
gone out of his way to make the neighbors happy and address their concerns.
Richard Schleicher stated he is not an immediate neighbor of the proposed house, but
the owner did come to him to show him pictures and the layout of the proposed
residence. He understood the owner's viewpoint as well as the appellants' viewpoints.
However, he felt the City has the responsibility to adhere to the Code and maintain
compatibility in the neighborhood. He felt that the Hartman's lot is higher than the
subject lot and therefore there should not be any view issues. He stated he was in favor
of the project.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 4
Sussan Bruguera stated that she does not know the owners or the appellants, but was
very much in favor of the new home as proposed.
Shannon Hartman (in rebuttal) explained that all she was trying to do was look into the
future to make sure that the right decisions are made in how the development will be
handled in the neighborhood.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lewis asked if staff has the ability, in terms of plans and specifications,
to entertain a request to allow the house to be built at some level higher than what is
proposed on the current plans.
Associate Planner Kim answered that staff does not have sufficient drawings or plans,
however if the Planning Commission allows for a taller height staff can bring a revised
resolution to the Planning Commission at the next meeting for adoption.
Deputy Director Pfost added that the silhouette may be an issue for the Commission to
consider, as it is currently constructed to the proposed height of the residence.
Therefore, the Commission wouldn't have the advantage of looking at the neighborhood
compatibility issues of a taller residence.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked staff to clarify the homes used for neighborhood
compatibility in terms of the size of the residence.
Associate Planner Kim explained that at the last meeting she clarified an error on page
59 of the staff report in regards to 1 Seacove, as it is over 4,000 square feet in size.
She also noted another home on Seacove within the twenty closest homes that is over
4,000 square feet, however the building permit has not yet been finaled. Per past
practice, staff does not include homes in the comparison unless they have a certificate
of occupancy issued. She also explained that, while the properties on the South side of
Seacove Drive are larger homes, they are not included in the twenty closest homes as
they are in a different zoning district. She also showed pictures of the twenty closest
homes, explaining that based on staff's analysis the proposed residence has more
articulation as well as a larger front yard setback. She noted the by-right height allowed
for a sloping lot such as this is 30 feet from the lowest post construction grade and 16
feet from the highest post construction grade. This proposal is less than 13 feet in
height in the back and 20 feet in height in the front.
Commissioner Leon asked staff if they knew whether or not the neighborhood
architectural committee had approved this design.
Associate Planner Kim believed the architectural committee had not approved the
design, however explained it was staff's understanding that there was a new board and
new by-laws being put into place that were not yet finalized.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 5
Commissioner Leon asked staff if the architectural board had denied the design.
Associate Planner Kim was not aware of that.
Chairman Tetreault understood the front yard setback was quite generous, and asked
staff how this home compared with the twenty closest homes in terms of side yard and
rear yard setbacks.
Associate Planner Kim answered that this proposed residence is similar to the others in
terms of side yard and rear yard setbacks.
Commissioner Lewis moved to adopt staff's recommendation to deny the appeal
and affirm the Coastal Hearings Officer's decision, seconded by Commissioner
Nelson.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked if the motion maker would consider an amendment to
prohibit Saturday construction and to limit construction parking on the even side of
Seacove Drive.
Commissioner Lewis asked staff if the Commission has the authority to limit
construction to Monday through Friday.
Associate Planner Kim answered that the Commission does have that authority.
Commissioner Gerstner did not see anything unique enough in this neighborhood to
limit construction days or parking. He could not remember the Planning Commission
ever putting these types of conditions on residential construction.
Commissioner Nelson agreed.
Chairman Tetreault asked if staff had ever put this type of condition on a residential
construction project.
Deputy Director Pfost was not aware of any residential project in the City where staff
had placed these types of conditions.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff about the permit parking on the street and how that
would be handled during construction.
Deputy Director Pfost stated he was not familiar with the parking situation on Seacove
Drive, explained that permit parking is handled through the Public Works Department,
and he thought construction parking may need some type of temporary parking permit
through that department. He suggested the property owner visit the Public Works
Department to deal with any issues in regards to permit parking on the street.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 6
Chairman Tetreault asked staff when, if ever, traffic safety issues are reviewed when a
project is approved for construction.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that traffic safety is typically reviewed when there is
work being done in the public right-of-way and an Encroachment Permit has been
issued by the City. It is also looked at when there is a large construction project that
requires the contractor to use part of the street as part of the construction project and a
part of the street may have to be closed. Typically there is no review for traffic safety
from the Public Works Department for a new single family residence construction.
Commissioner Tomblin stated that he considered the comment regarding additional
grading on the lot, and noted that currently the garage is less than one foot off of the
street level and any more grading may create problems. He also noted that the house
is almost five feet lower than what is allowed by right. He did not think much could be
done to the front of the building that would significantly change the look and perceived
bulk and mass.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser felt that the project has a minimal impact on views, and the
design addresses bulk and mass concerns. He felt that there are limitations as to what
can be designed and built on the property because of the size and shape of the lot. He
noted that he was also encouraged because this house is smaller than the house that
was previously approved on the property.
Chairman Tetreault noted that over the years the Commission has discussed many
times the incremental effect that home building has on a neighborhood and
neighborhood compatibility. He explained that it isn't always the square footage, but
also the appearance of the structure. The Commission has also noted and taken into
consideration whether or not the square footage is somehow hidden and not visible, and
will discount any precedent that square footage has made. In this particular house he
was not concerned with the square footage, noting most of it is hidden and not apparent
from the street.
The motion to deny►the appeal and adopt PC Resolution 2012-09 was approved,
(7-0).
PUBLIC HEARINGS
2. Conditional Use Permit for Point View Master Plan (Case No. ZON2010-
00087): Point View Property
Vice Chairman Emenhiser disclosed that he purchased his current home from York
Properties. Mr. York also contributed to his campaign for City Council, however the
amount contributed was below the reportable level of$100. He did not believe that
either of these issues would affect his ability to make a decision on this application.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 7
Commissioner Nelson reported that starting in 1999 his Homeowners Association
supported Terranea and through that he had the opportunity to meet Mr. York and
represent his interests in regards to Terranea and the Homeowners Association. He too
did not believe this would influence his vote on this project.
Commissioner Leon stated he lives within the 500 foot radius of the project and left the
dais.
Senior Planner Schonborn presented the staff report, explaining the project includes
three main components: a golf course, agricultural use and other miscellaneous
improvements, and an event garden. He described each of the proposed uses,
showing the property on an aerial photo. He explained that staff performed a CEQA
analysis, looking at the different environmental issues. He stated that the analysis
showed there were several issues that came about as a result of the CEQA process,
however the impacts that were considered significant could be mitigated with certain
measures to a level of less than significant. He discussed the biological and noise
impacts in greater detail, as discussed in the staff report. He also discussed trails on
the property and how they related to the Conceptual Trails Plan. He noted that the
inclusion of trails as specified in the Conceptual Trails Plan does not legally grant the
use or guarantee the implementation of certain trails. The City Attorney did not feel
there was a nexus between the proposed project and acquiring the trail segments to be
implemented. Therefore the City cannot mandate or require the property owner to give
an easement or allow for the use of his property for the trails. However, staff asked the
property owner if he was interested in pursuing a dedication to allow for the trails, but
the property owner was not interested at this time. Finally, he introduced Jay Ziff and
Heidi Rous from PCR, who are the consultants that prepared the Mitigated Negative
Declaration documents for the project.
Commissioner Lewis asked staff if the Planning Commission had the discretion to
determine a Mitigated Negative Declaration was not appropriate and an EIR was
needed for the proposed project.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that when an Environmental Assessment is
prepared there are certain issues identified as having a potentially significant impact. If
these potentially significant impacts can be mitigated, that results in a Mitigated
Negative Declaration. If staff identifies an issue that is significant and cannot be
mitigated, that would be a precursor to establishing an EIR. In this case, the
Environmental Assessment established there are certain potentially significant impacts,
however they can be reduced to a level of less than significant.
Commissioner Lewis noted staff's recommendation, however he asked if the Planning
Commission were to conclude that they could not support staff's recommendation and
felt an EIR was appropriate, could the Commission request an EIR. He also questioned
the timing of this in regards to the Permit Streamling Act.
Planning commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 8
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the Permit Streamling Act allows for a one
year frame in cases where an EIR is required.
Deputy Director Pfost added that if the Planning Commission were to determine that an
EIR was needed, it would be very important for the Commission to delineate which
impacts they felt could not be mitigated that would warrant the EIR.
Commissioner Lewis noted staff was recommending the Event Center not operate past
6 p.m. and asked if the applicant had any opposition to that recommendation,
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that the applicant had concerns with that
condition.
Commissioner Lewis asked if the Planning Commission had the discretion to approve
components of the project, or was it an all or nothing proposition.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated the Commission has the ability to limit certain uses
being proposed, and to approve or deny certain uses.
Deputy Director Pfost added that the Commission is reviewing a Conditional Use Permit
with certain components and findings. He encouraged the Commission to specifically
identify which component they were not able to make the findings for, whereby they
would be denying that component of the project.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked how many events were being held at the property now
as compared to the number requested by the applicant.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that currently the property owner must request a
Special Use Permit to hold an event on the property. He felt that the last Special Use
Permit granted for the site was in either 2009 or 2010. He noted that other events have
been held on the property, however they have been conveyed as events held for friends
or associates which the property owner has the ability to do without a permit.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked how many acres would be devoted to agriculture.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that approximately 25 acres will be dedicated to
agriculture.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser felt that noise was an important issue with this project, and if
noise were to be mitigated what type of techniques would be employed for the
mitigation.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that mitigation measures include providing for
some insulation in the existing walls, requiring the speakers be oriented in a certain
direction, and limits on volume,
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 9
Ms. Rous added that these measures are performance based mitigation measures,
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked if the noise was trying to be mitigated from the top of
the neighborhood, the north side of the property, or down closer to Palos Verdes Drive
South.
Ms. Rous answered that there are topography issues with the property and it depends
on where in the Event Garden the event will be held as to where the noise must be
mitigated. However, primarily the noise mitigation would be concentrated in the areas of
R1 and R2.
Commissioner Tomblin recalled when Wayfarer's Chapel proposed an addition to the
back of the existing building and the Planning Commission put restrictions on the
property at that time. He asked staff if there has been a comparison with the restrictions
at Wayfarer's Chapel as it would be applied to the Event Garden.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that the comparison was not done, but it could be
done if the Commission desired.
Commissioner Tomblin also noted that in one of the comment letters a comment was
made as to events held outside at Terranea or Trump. He asked if those comparisons
would be applicable in this case.
Senior Planner Schonborn felt Terranea was different, as it is not a residentially zoned
property. Any comparisons would be better made with Trump, however he noted that
there is no data or studies done in regards to outdoor events at Trump to get any noise
levels.
Deputy Director Pfost explained that for the most part there are no restrictions at Trump
in terms of outdoor events. However, when Trump has a large event the City processes
that through a Special Use Permit.
Chairman Tetreault noted that in 2009 the Event Center was brought to the Commission
in the form of a proposal through a Conditional Use Permit, which was eventually
denied by the City. He asked staff to explain why the project is now being presented as
a Master Use Plan (MUP), and what the difference is between this and the original
CUP.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained the main difference between this submittal and the
one in 2009 is that the applicant submitted a CUP application for use of the property
solely for the purposes of an Event Garden Center. Staff returned that application
explaining that type of use, which was renting out a residentially zoned property for
commercial purposes was not a conditionally permitted use and therefore a CUP
application could not be accepted. An interpretation procedure was subsequently
brought before the Planning Commission, and the Commission agreed with the
interpretation that staff cannot accept a CUP application to use a residentially zoned
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 10
property to conduct events as a commercial enterprise. He further explained that a
Master Use Plan is a term used when a variety of uses are proposed on a property,
however it is all still governed by the Conditional Use Permit. The difference now is
that, the CUP application includes an agricultural use and a golf course, both of which
are conditionally permitted uses. As an ancillary use to those uses is the Event Garden.
He added that in the Code there is no definition of what constitutes a golf course.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff, if the Master Use Plan is approved, how long does that
approval last and does it impact or restrict other possible uses for the property.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that the longevity of the approval would be subject
to the Planning Commission's discretion as to whether they granted a permit valid for
one year, five years, or any given amount of time. He added this approval would not
preclude other uses on the property, however if another type of use were added to the
property it would have to come before the Planning Commission for a modification to
the CUP.
Commissioner Lewis asked staff if they had discussed this application with the City
Attorney and her comments on this type of application.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated staff had reviewed this application with the City
Attorney and she felt this is a conditionally permitted use and the application should be
taken through the process.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Jim York (applicant) stated that, now that he has bought out his partners and has no
debt on the property, his goal is to enjoy the property. He stated he hired a landscape
architect to design a master plan for the property, and this master plan includes
agriculture, a small golf course, and the event garden. The agriculture will consist of
avocados, citrus, olives, grapes, and vegetables, all of which will have organic
certification. He explained that the irrigation will be minimal and he will ensure that the
most sustainable and economically methods available will be used, and he will ensure
that no runoff will go into the ocean. The golf course is proposed to be a small course
with a few synthetic grass greens and several 4 x 4 hitting mats. There will be no
irrigation or grading involved in the golf course. The event garden is on a flat portion of
the property and is basically complete, noting that it has been completed over the past
several years with permits from the City. He noted the event garden has patios, grass
areas, bathrooms, outdoor kitchen, and fireplace. He stated that he currently has the
legal right to access the entire property from Narcissa Drive. He explained that this year
he will have approximately fifteen events on the property. He is proposing to double the
number of events from fifteen to thirty, and be able to charge for some of these events.
In exchange for this he is proposing to build an all-weather driveway from Palos Verdes
Drive South to the event garden and to build sound walls and other things to mitigate
sound. He noted the staff report recommends all events be concluded by 6.00 p.m. and
felt this was unacceptable, as there are many events such as dinner parties that cannot
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 11
end at 6:00. He stated he was not interested in building an improved road and sound
walls if the events must end by 6:00.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked Mr. York how many people he would expect at each
event.
Mr. York answered that the Walk on the Wild Side may have as many as 700, however
that would be a once a year event. Most of the events he has had at the property have
had no more than 125 people attending.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked Mr. York to discuss what mitigation measures he is
proposing or would consider to mitigate the noise concerns in the surrounding
neighborhood.
Mr. York explained that he has talked to people at Terranea and La Venta Inn and as a
result he will be enacting an entertainment agreement. This agreement will be signed
by anyone using the property, including his friends, which will specify the decibel level,
the direction of the speakers, and if the agreement is not adhered to the event will be
ended. Additionally, the noise consultant has recommended a twelve-foot sound wall
be built behind the area where the music will be played. The wall will be planted with
Boston Ivy to keep the noise from bouncing off. Additionally, there will be sound
absorbing materials on the walls. He stated he agrees with all of the mitigation
requirements except for the 6:00 p.m. requirement.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser asked Mr. York about his thoughts on trails.
Mr. York explained that he has had a history of problems in allowing the general public
on the property. When the property was unfenced he had several cases of vandalism
and burglary on the property, which prompted the need for the fencing. He stated he
would let the residents of Portuguese Bend that he knows use the property, but could
not let the general public access the property because of the liability issues. He stated
he has talked to staff about allowing a trail access on the northwest portion of the
property which would give access from Barkentine Canyon across the property.
Commissioner Gerstner asked Mr. York what he felt was a reasonable time to end
events on the property.
Mr. York recommended most events end at 10:00 p.m.
Commissioner Lewis referred to the event where up to 750 people were expected, and
asked Mr. York if he would be agreeable to a condition of approval limiting such events
to once a year.
Mr. York was agreeable to such a condition, as Las Candalistas holds this event only
once a year.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 12
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. York to clarify his easement rights to enter his
property through Portuguese Bend.
Mr. York explained that he has the same rights as the other residents in Portuguese
Bend and those who live in the Vanderlip Estates, He clarified that this includes
himself, his family members, his workers, and invited guests.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. York if he would be agreeable to a condition of
approval that event access and parking be accessed from Palos Verdes Drive South,
and not through the Portuguese Bend community.
Mr. York was agreeable to such a condition of approval.
Gary Weber (representing York Point View Properties) felt the Mitigated Negative
Declaration prepared for this project is a very comprehensive and thorough document,
comparable to many EIRs being written today. He stated he does not agree with
everything stated in the document, but felt it was a fair and accurate document that will
stand up to any test. He stated the proposed project is fairly complex, however the
issues are quite simple. He clarified that the Master Use Plan terminology is his
terminology and not the city's. He felt there are a lot of uses and activities planned for
the property that will be a benefit to the community, noting that the proposal is a mix of
low impact environmentally compatible uses over what appears to be the largest vacant
private property on the peninsula. Mr. York will be reintroducing the use of agriculture
on the peninsula, which will include organic agriculture. He noted that the property has
been certified organic for the past two or three years. He also noted that staff has
verified the agriculture use will not impact the habitat.
Commissioner Tomblin asked Mr. Weber, if the Commission were to approve the
proposed Master Use Plan, would Mr. York then give up the residential zoning rights
and declare the property agricultural and open space.
Mr. Weber answered that Mr. York would absolutely not give up the residential zoning
rights.
Commissioner Lewis asked Mr. Weber in what way an event center for commercial
purposes is an ancillary use to a private, friends only, no green fees golf course.
Mr. Weber related it back to what happens at Trump. He stated that Trump is a golf
course, there are events held there, and these two functions are exclusive of each
other. He did not see a difference in what Mr. York is proposing and what is allowed at
Trump.
Commissioner Lewis noted the agricultural use on the property has been certified
organic and asked Mr. Weber if any certification or accreditation occurred with respect
to the proposed golf course.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 13
Mr. Weber answered that has not taken place. He explained that it was briefly pursued,
however because there is no set definition of what a golf course is it was difficult.
Commissioner Nelson noted there has been mention of some environmental factors,
one being first flush. He asked Mr. Weber to explain what first flush is and why it is
important, and how that first flush will be handled.
Mr. Weber explained that as part of the environmental analysis a hydrology study and a
water quality study were prepared. He explained that a first flush occurs when there is
a rain event that causes runoff from the property which will sometimes capture materials
that you don't want to go into the ocean or habitat areas. The idea is to capture that first
flush, and they are doing that by capturing it in a vegetated buffer on both sides of the
road, which will capture the materials off of the road and the agriculture areas. He
noted there are agricultural areas below the roadway, however those areas are
captured through best management practices. He stated there are also drainage basins
that will capture and filter excess water.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if there is a maximum time limit put in place for use of this
Master Use Plan.
Mr. Weber stated Mr. York has not identified any time frame, noting that typically
Conditional Use Permits are granted until some condition is violated which would
invalidate the Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Tomblin envisioned that in the future Mr. York could have a small golf
course, agricultural use, and an event garden, and then decide to propose a residential
development incorporating all of these uses. He felt that if this were to happen he
would prefer to see the event garden go away rather than become a community
clubhouse. He was not sure he was in favor of approving a Master Plan that may lead
the way for the first phase of a future residential master planned community.
Mr. Weber, stated there are currently no plans to do anything like that, noting that the
process to get a residential development with these components in it would be a major
project. He added that the Master Use Plan is only his terminology, not the city's, and
only a label to put on the project.
Jim Herrera stated he is a member of the Chamber of Commerce and the Chamber of
Commerce has voted to support this proposal, as it may bring jobs and tax revenue to
the City. Speaking as a private citizen and resident of the City, he felt this is a great
opportunity for the City to revisit its agricultural roots. He felt this is a gentle use of the
property and one that would benefit the City,
Gordon Leon stated his comments are solely his own and do not represent any group,
committee, or organization. He also stated he lives across the street from the York
property. He stated it was recently brought to his attention that this current proposal
may be conceptually a better plan than building ninety homes on the property. He
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 14
stated there are a host of landslide and landslide related issues, but felt most could be
mitigated with appropriate measures. He did find the proposed event center to be
problematic. On its surface he did not feel it was compatible with a residential zone, as
it is a business running in, a residential area. He noted Mr. York felt he has the same
rights as others living in the area, but pointed out that other residents do not regularly
bring 100 to 700 guests into their homes. He stated the Portuguese Bend
neighborhood is an extraordinarily quiet neighborhood, with no background noise and
almost no nighttime activity. He noted the event center is at the top of the hill and as a
consequence one can hear what is going on there all around the community. Should
the Commission allow an event center, he suggested rezoning the property. He also
felt the site should be modified to lower the event center below the crest of the hill. He
also suggested the hours for the event center be limited to daylight hours only,
especially given the parking area is located so close to the community.
Chairman Tetreault noted much has been said about the noise the event center could
create, and also noted that the permitted use on the property is residential and Mr. York
could propose to build many new homes on the property. He asked Mr. Leon if there
had been any thoughts or comments on the types and amount of noise a fifty or sixty
home development would create in the Portuguese Bend neighborhood.
Mr. Leon felt the main difference would be the concentrated versus distributed nature of
the noise. He stated the event center is at the top of the hill overlooking the entire
Portuguese Bend area. If ninety homes were to be built if would be distributed across
the entire area.
Chef Michael Shafer stated he has done events at the York property, one of which
raised $40,000 for the Palos Verdes Education Foundation. He stated that he does
charity events in homes in this City at least once a month, and these events can have
from 200 to over 800 people attending. He also addressed parking, noting that if 70
people show up for an event, there will be 20 to 30 cars. He stated that it is nearly
impossible for weddings and events to end at 6:00, as there is time needed to set up
and break down the event.
Commissioner Nelson asked Chef Shafer what his average break down time is for an
event.
Chef Shafer answered that if an event ends at 9:30 he can be off of the property by
10:30,
Commission Nelson asked what the average set up time is.
Chef Shafer answered the average setup time is approximately 1 1/2 hours.
Corinne Gerrard stated the Portuguese Bend roads are substandard to today's
engineering standards. She was concerned that additional traffic and heavy trucks
using Narcissa Drive will do damage to the road. She was therefore in support of
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 15
building the access road from Palos Verdes Drive South to the York property. She
questioned the sound issues in regards to the event garden, noting that when she
worked with Wayfarers Chapel she learned that sound travels up. If that does happen,
she suspected any sounds from the event garden would travel up and not so much
towards the residential homes. She noted Wayfarers Chapel has events until 10:00
P.m.
Chairman Tetreault asked Ms. Rous if sound does indeed travel up and would therefore
have less of an impact on the surrounding neighborhood.
Ms. Rous explained that sound travels in all directions, similar to a bubble expanding.
Claire Monks discussed Mr. York's character and his willingness to talk to people about
organic gardening, his sincerity to his neighbors, and his openness to concerns in the
neighborhood. She agreed that the roads in Portuguese Bend are not up to handling
the additional traffic, and supported the proposed access to the property from Palos
Verdes Drive South.
Dennen Monks stated he was in support of the proposal, and agreed with the comments
made by Claire Monks. He was supportive of the idea that so much of the land was
being dedicated to agriculture.
Suzanne Hoffman stated she lives very close to the event center, and that parties and
events held in the past have been very loud. She was therefore against the event
center, as she did not believe an outdoor event center belongs in a residential
neighborhood. She questioned if the larger community of Rancho Palos Verdes wants
part of a hillside designated as a commercial zone for parties. She noted the City prides
itself on its quiet, semi-rural environment. She discussed the dangerous roads in the
City, and the guests leaving the event center after drinking and having to navigate these
roads. She felt the event center poses a huge risk to the greater Rancho Palos Verdes
community and there is no gain to the residents, only potential liability.
Suzanne Griffith stated this project has been looked at by the Planning Commission on
several prior occasions, and the only reason it is again before the Commission is
because Mr. York is now proposing a golf course on the property, which he did in order
to satisfy the Municipal Code requirement to apply for an ancillary use. She stated
everyone knows the golf course is not the true reason for the CUP, but rather Mr. York's
intent is to get permission to have the event center in a residential neighborhood. She
did not think this proposed golf course and use can be compared to the Trump property.
She noted that Trump has an enclosed building for events and parties. She asked the
Planning Commission what type of precedent will be established by allowing this type of
commercial activity in a well established RS1 zoned area.
Barbara Sattler stated she was representing the Sierra Club. She stated there were
significant concerns in regards to the Mitigated Negative Declaration, noting it fails to
acknowledge the obligations under the NCCP for the property, has a number of very
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 16
serious inaccuracies within it, and does not provide adequate mitigation to the habitat
impacts. She stated the entire property is identified as important habitat area for the
preserve, yet the MND and staff are asserting it is not part of the NCCP. She stated the
property is part of the NCCP plan, specifically mapped on almost every map within the
NCCP plan, and is specifically referred to in the plan. She acknowledged it is not in the
preserve, but it is specifically designated in the approved plan. She asked the
Commission to not approve the MND, as she felt it is extremely flawed and needs
revising.
Leanne Twidwell stated she has lived in Portuguese Bend for 39 years, and in those 39
years she did not think she had been aware of 39 parties in the community. She stated
the area is unique in that it is semi-rural, there are small houses on large lots, and is
particularly quiet at night. She questioned how an event center is compatible with this
type of neighborhood. She hoped the Commission would consider the lives of those
who live in Portuguese Bend when making their decision,
Peter McClaffert stated his property abuts the York property. He was concerned with
the additional traffic, noting it has already increased on Palos Verdes Drive South since
Terranea was built. He stated that with the events that have already taken place on the
York property guests have not adhered to the speed limit and park wherever they want,
Da'ad Makhlouf remembered speaking at the last hearing for the previous proposal for
the property, noting that proposal was denied. She stated the only difference now is the
event center is camouflaged in some trees. She was very much against a commercial
venture in a residential neighborhood.
Robert McClellan asked if a Friday and Saturday event would be considered one event,
or a Friday, Saturday and Sunday event would be considered one event, He was
concerned with the number of days these events may begin to take place. He also
questioned who is monitoring the number of events held on the property. He was
concerned with the added traffic to the already unstable roads in Portuguese Bend. He
stated he would completely support the project if it were rezoned agriculture and split off
a portion near the bottom for commercial zoning.
Sunshine stated she was frustrated with staffs lack of interest in the City's General
Plan. She referred to page 2 of the staff report and discussed her concerns with
preserving emergency circulation with the side benefit of preserving recreational trails.
She felt that more work needs to be done in terms of the trails. She did not think staff
should feel free to say that just because an existing trail is not dedicated to the City it
does not exist, hence the word conceptual.
Gary Weber (in rebuttal) stated that most noise ordinances, especially in Southern
California, have noise limitations that begin at 10:00 p.m. and end at TOO a.m.
However, Rancho Palos Verdes is a little unusual and doesn't have those standards.
He felt the 6:00 p.m. deadline is arbitrary, as he could not find any technical in the report
that would indicate a 6:00 p.m. limitation really benefits the community. He also noted
Nanning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 17
that the City did not deny a previous request for a Conditional Use Permit, as stated by
many of the speakers. In 2009 the Planning Commission acted to confirm staff's
interpretation that an event center was not appropriate in a residential district. He
believed, and continues to believe, that decision was flawed.
Commissioner Lewis asked Mr. Weber of he agreed that the Commission has the
discretion to look at the character of the surrounding neighborhood when deciding
whether or not this proposed use of the property would cause significant impact.
Mr. Weber answered that the Commission clearly has that discretion.
Commissioner Lewis asked Mr. Weber what time he felt the cutoff time for the event
center should be.
Mr. Weber felt 10:00 p.m. would be an appropriate cutoff time, but also felt that 9-30
would be agreeable.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if Mr. York would be applying for a liquor license or resale
license, or if they are necessary if there is a chargeable event on the property.
Chef Shafer answered by explaining that according to the ABC there are three ways to
have a party where alcohol is being served: obtain a liquor license, have a catering
liquor license, or an individual can serve liquor at a party when they are responsible for
that event. He explained that at the event center liquor would be served, but either
under his liquor license as the caterer, or the person having the event will supply and
serve the liquor.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tomblin noted to staff that there is a particular residence in the city of
San Marino that has had 150 fundraising events in the last eighteen months, and staff
may want to contact the city to see how they have handled the situation.
Commissioner Nelson asked staff how they determined 6:00 p.m. for an ending time at
the event center, and asked staff if they really thought such an early time would work.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that in the Mitigated Negative Declaration there is
a lengthy discussion about the ambient noise levels, including those for daytime and
evening time, and that cutoff between daytime and evening time was 6:00 p.m. Using
the ambient noise as a guide to help staff to objectively look at impacts resulting from
noise it was determined that there was a significant impact at certain locations as noted
in the staff report. In going through the document from a CEQA standpoint, the
appropriate mitigation in order to account for exceeding the significance threshold in the
ambient noise level is to not allow event activities at the ceremony lawn area or to allow
amplified music after 6,00 p.m. Because there was that condition, looking at it from a
Conditional Use Permit point of view, staff took the position that any exceedance of the
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 18
ambient noise level would be considered an adverse impact and because it occurs after
6:00 p.m. that is why staff ultimately suggested the 6:00 p.m. cutoff time.
Commissioner Nelson felt that the Planning Commission is charged with coming up with
and finding a practical solution to a real problem, and he felt this was real problem.
He asked staff what they felt the practical solution might be.
Senior Planner Schonborn explained that staff does not look at whether a party at the
site is going to be successful, but rather whether the impacts from that party are
significant. Staff felt that a party at the site after 6:00 p.m. will exceed the ambiance
noise level.
Commissioner Nelson asked Ms. Rous the same question.
Ms. Rous explained that Noise 7, which was referred to by staff, is to limit activity at the
ceremony lawn to not past 6:00 p.m. because that area basically cannot be mitigated.
She stated an event could occur at the event garden, which is primarily walled and there
are other permanent improvements planned to mitigate the noise that would bring it to a
less than significant impact from a CEQA standpoint. She noted that staff is using a
slightly different threshold definition of an adverse impact for the CUP approval versus a
significant impact that has been mitigated to less than significant in the definition in
CEQA.
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff if there are mitigation measures that could be
applied to the area, other than the ceremony lawn, that could make the impact less than
significant.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that nothing has been identified at this point that
would lead staff to believe that was possible.
Commissioner Gerstner explained he was trying to find out if it was impossible to
mitigate the noise coming from this area, or if it something that is difficult and a solution
has yet to be found. He also noted that the evaluation that was done of ambient noise
and the line that was drawn to distinguish afternoon from evening, was somewhat
arbitrary. He felt that staff looked at that line of distinction and used that as a basis as
to when the events should stop. He felt that staff could just as easily have said that
afternoon ends at 7:00 p.m. and an entire evaluation done on that time period.
Ms. Rous agreed that there is not a regulatory differentiation. She explained this study
was done based on the monitoring studies done in four locations in Portuguese Bend,
and there is a significant drop in noise in the neighborhood at 6:00 p.m.
Chairman Tetreault questioned how much that is a function of what time it is as
opposed to the season. He noted that at 6:00 in January it is dark as opposed to 6:00
in the summertime where there is at least two more hours of sunshine.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 19
Ms. Rous agreed that this is a function of the time of year the measurements are taken.
Commissioner Tomblin asked if requiring tenting at the site would help mitigate noise
levels.
Ms. Rous answered that an a technical basis a tent offers little to no sound mitigation.
Commissioner Gerstner noted that Mr. York offered to allow sound measurements to be
taken at an upcoming event, and asked staff if they felt that would be beneficial to the
analysis.
Ms. Rous explained that she could set up monitors in the neighborhood that would allow
them to know what the impact was, however one would not know what the noise that
created the impact was without being at the event and monitoring everything at the
event.
Chairman Tetreault noted in the preliminary MND that noise was a potentially significant
impact that was looked at but could be mitigated. There are many mitigation measures
outlined in the report, one being that the event stop at 6-00 p.m. If that could not be
done and that mitigation measure removed is there then not a MND, would an EIR then
have to be prepared.
Ms. Rous clarified the MND required the ceremony lawn functions end at 6:00, not that
all events stop at 6:00 p.m., which is a different staff recommendation. The MND allows
the event garden to operate until 10:00 p.m. with the physical improvements and
performance limitations. Ms. Rous noted that the ceremony lawn is open to the
neighborhood on the north (back) side.
Chairman Tetreault asked Ms. Rous if her role in the MND was to determine, if the
activities could be confined to the event garden, the event could go beyond 6:00 p.m.
However, 20 yards away at the lawn area would create a problem after 6:00 p.m.
Ms. Rous answered, with the appropriate mitigations in place, that was correct.
Chairman Tetreault then asked staff, if the applicant can't or won't limit the events to
before 6:00, what would then happen from staff's standpoint in terms of
recommendations for approval or denial of the project.
Senior Planner Schonborn answered that staff would still recommend approval with the
condition of approval that events end by 6:00 p.m. He did not think there was a
practical way to keep people out of the ceremony lawn area after 6:00 because of the
close proximity to the event center, and did not know how that could be regulated.
Deputy Director Pfost also explained that the MND has certain findings, however when
staff looked at the findings for the Conditional Use Permit, which has separate findings,
staff felt there would be issues allowing events to continue past 6.00 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 20
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff if they worked with the applicant to find ways to
mitigate this Concern.
Senior Planner Schonborn stated that staff looked at the application in its entirety and
did not approach the applicant in regards to this specific mitigation.
Commissioner Gerstner asked staff, if the applicant were able to present mitigation
measures that would control the noise issues to staffs satisfaction, would that then
change staff's recommendation relative to the distinction between agreeing with the
conditions of the MND as they are proposed versus the modification suggested by staff.
Senior Planner Schonborn felt there could potentially be some modifications that would
result in the ambient noise level not being exceeded. At that point, from a staffs
perspective there would be no adverse impact in terms of the CUP.
Commissioner Lewis moved to continue the public hearing to give staff and the
consultants sufficient time to address the issues raised by the Commission and
the public speakers, seconded by Commissioner Gerstner.
Senior Planner Schonborn noted that in order to give staff and the consultants enough
time to thoroughly review all of the issues, as well as the issues brought up by the
resource agencies, and the likelihood that the final MND will have to be recirculated with
proper notification, that staff would recommend this come back to the Planning
Commission no sooner than the second meeting in August or the first meeting in
September.
Chairman Tetreault asked staff if there are other issues the Commission would like staff
or the consultants to address as part of the review process.
Commissioner Tomblin asked for a discussion of the road restriction through
Portuguese Bend; conditions of the master plan; a comment about the definition of what
an event is; the monitoring requirements, which may include the same requirements
used for Wayfarers Chapel; a discussion of whether or not the event center will be used
strictly for nonprofit events or if the event center will be used as a commercial business;
and contacting other cities that have properties in residential neighborhoods which hold
similar events to see how they are handled.
Commissioner Lewis would also like to see the conditions that were applicable to
Wayfarers Chapel in terms of comparing those conditions to this application. The
application discusses large trucks or Hollywood style restrooms to be used for large
events, and would like to see an analysis of these large trucks using the steep road in
terms of safety.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 21
Commissioner Gerstner asked for a better understanding of the ambient lighting in the
area. He also asked staff for an explanation of why staff was asking for mitigation of the
color of the new road.
Vice Chairman, Emenhiser agreed with the Commissioner's comments adding he would
like to see a discussion regarding the northern trail along the top of the property.
Commissioner Gerstner asked too see on an aerial where the original trails were and
where the conceptual trail was proposed.
Chairman Tetreault stated he would like to see more distinction between and more of a
comparison between what was proposed to the City in 2009 and what is being proposed
now. He would like to better understand how having some type of golfing element
allows an application for commercial use of residential property, if there are any legal
limits as to what constitutes a golf course, and if there has to be any nexus between the
golfing element and the ancillary use.
The public hearing was continued to an unspecified future date, (6-0).
Commissioner Leon returned to the dais.
3. General Plan update — Review proposed changes to the existing Lane Use
Ma
Deputy Director Pfost presented the staff report, explaining this is in regards to City
owned property (park sites) and changing the General Plan land use designation from
Residential to Recreation Passive similar to other existing park sites in the City. He
stated that the Planning Commission decision is not a final decision, but rather a
recommendation to the City Council which will be combined with all of the other land
use changes that the Commission has reviewed in the past.
Commissioner Leon asked if the same thing could be accomplished by having
Recreational Passive be an allowed use in residential neighborhoods.
Deputy Director Pfost believed that from a zoning standpoint government facilities and
recreation are permitted uses. However, what should be done in the General Plan is to
identify land use areas that are recreational or open space areas. He felt it would be
preferable to have these on the land use map.
Commissioner Leon noted these are very small areas, less than 3110s of an acre. He
felt that if it was just called an allowed use then the City would not have to go through
and identify these small areas on all of the maps.
Deputy Director Pfost agreed that theoretically the City does not have to identify these
areas on the maps, and it has been that way for a very long time. However, staff is
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 22
trying to clean up the map, and since these are City owned properties staff felt they
should be identified as open space properties.
Chairman Tetreault opened the public hearing.
Max Behshid stated his concern was the issue on Crest Road, noting he owns the
property at 3867 Crest Road. He stated that currently there is a lot of traffic and
nuisance from people using the site. He felt that if this area is made a trail head there
will be more traffic, noting that there currently is no parking in the area for these people.
He felt that opening up this area will make a bad situation worse.
Larry Prizlow also discussed the area on Crest Road, noting it is only 30 feet by 50 feet
in size. He did not think this was a problem during the day, however at night the area is
used for less than desirable things.
Chairman Tetreault understood there are problems on this property, but asked how
changing the land use designation would have any affect on this situation.
Mr. Prizlow stated that it made no sense to open this as a trail head, as there is no
place for a trail.
Commissioner Leon asked if the City were to make this private property by ceding the
property to the adjacent land owner, would this solve any problems.
Mr. Prizlow thought that would be a good solution, as the property owner could then
block the area to prohibit people from gaining access. He thought the City of Rolling
Hills would also be willing to do the same thing.
Commissioner Leon suggested staff look into doing something like that.
Sunshine explained the Palos Verdes Loop Trail crosses Crest Road a fair distance
down the hill and she advised the City against buying this lot because it is not feasible
as a trail head. In regards to rezoning, she questioned why staff was recommending
passive recreation as opposed to active recreation.
Chairman Tetreault closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Lewis cautioned that before pursuing the option of gifting public problem,
the City Attorney may want to be consulted.
Deputy Director Pfost stated there are prohibitions on gifting public property.
Commissioner Lewis did not think people who use the Crest Road property at night rely
on the GeneralPlan as a reference tool in finding places to go, and did not think there
was a nexus between these problems and what is before the Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 23
Commissioner Tomblin moved to approve staff's recommendation with the
exception of item E, and to continue item E to allow staff the opportunity to
confer with the City Attorney on gifting property, seconded by Vice Chairman
Emenhiser.
Commissioner Leon stated that the question in his mind was whether or not to include
these little pocket parks in the General Plan or add passive recreation as an allowed
use in residential areas and would therefore be opposed to the motion.
Commissioner Leon moved a substitute motion that passive recreation be an
allowed use in residential zoned areas and not go through and add lots of small
passive recreation areas to the General Plan, seconded by Commissioner
Gerstner.
Commissioner Tomblin withdrew his motion, seconded by Vice Chairman
Emenhiser.
Chairman Tetreault asked Commissioner Leon to clarify his intent in regards to the
zoning.
Commissioner Leon explained that the lots are currently zoned residential and will
remain that way, with no change to the General Plan.
Commissioner Gerstner stated that this seems to support many of the comments he has
received, as the parks will remain parks. This way the City, who owns the property, will
decide this will be the allowable use of a park in the residential neighborhood.
Deputy Director Pfost preferred the land use designation be changed to Passive
Recreation to be consistent with other parks in the City. He noted this helps in the
General Plan document when discussing the text of the City and discussing what the
park sites are. In the Land Use section of the General Plan, which breaks down the
different types of categories of land use, these park sites would no longer be included in
the park site land use discussion. He realized some of these park sites are small, but
pointed out that Founders Park is a five acre park. He stated staff was charged with
updating the General Plan and the General Plan Land Use Map, and this includes
looking at and updating the land uses in the City.
Commissioner Lewis understood that the General Plan is a too] for people to refer to
and understand what the City is about. He asked if the current motion is passed, and a
person wanted to look at the General Plan to find out about the City's parks, would they
still be able to find out about Founders Park and the little pocket parks throughout the
City.
Deputy Director Pfost answered that they would.
Nanning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 24
Commissioner Leon pointed out that Founders Park is actually a park, but he did not
consider the little area of land on Crest Road as a park.
The motion to not approve the land use changes for the parks, as recommended
by Staff, and to recommend adding passive recreation as an allowed use in
residential zones was approved, (5-2) with Commissioner Lewis and Chairman
Tetreault dissenting.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
4. Minutes of May 8, 2012
Commissioner Tomblin noted a correction to page 8 of the minutes.
Commissioner Nelson stated he would like to have the minutes reflect a dialogue
between Councilman Duhovic and the City Council regarding the person who solicited
the letter from Palos Verdes Estates, as well as the admission from Councilwoman
Brooks that she was the person who did that. He felt this was an important part of what
developed out of the meeting, as it develops how the City got into the ad hoc mess. He
would also like to see Councilwoman Brook's laudatory remarks about the Chairman of
the Traffic Safety Committee included. He felt the minutes are incomplete without these
additions, noting they might want to be added verbatim from the tape.
Vice Chairman Emenhiser felt the minutes did a fairly good job of reflecting audience
and Planning Commission comments during this portion of the meeting. He also
suggested verbatim minutes for this portion of the meeting.
Commissioner Lewis moved to not accept the minutes and request the minute
taker re-review the tape of the meeting and the discussion between Councilman
Duhovic and Councilwoman Brooks concerning the source of the letter, as well
as the comments about Mr. Kramer, and to come back with revised and more
complete minutes, seconded by Commissioner Nelson.
Commissioner Gerstner noted a typo on page 10 of the minutes, and a clarification on
page 3 of the minutes.
Chairman Tetreault questioned whether or not the City Council was going to also review
these minutes, and voiced concerns that the Planning Commission and the City Council
may approve different sets minutes.
Deputy Director Pfost agreed, noting that the minutes most likely won't go to the City
Council until they have been approved by the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Lewis moved to amend his motion that when including these draft
Planning Commission minutes into the City Council packet, that a short memo be
included on what the Planning Commission discussed and noted that there
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 25
seems to be omissions in the minutes and the Commission has asked for more
complete minutes, seconded by Commissioner Nelson. Approved (7-0).
ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON FUTURE AGENDAS
5. Pre-agenda for the meeting on June 12, 2012,
The pre-agenda was reviewed and approved as presented.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 12:10 a.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
May 22,2012
Page 26